Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
"Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!"

 


ntrprnr  (B 28397)

Jan 16, 2012, 10:57 AM
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"Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" Can't Post

Someone actually posted that on Facebook this morning. I'm waiting to hear back to find out where he jumped, and what idiot instructor would let someone on their FIRST SOLO use a camera.

Are we just getting stupider as a sport, or am I overreacting?


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 16, 2012, 11:20 AM
Post #2 of 175 (8482 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Someone actually posted that on Facebook this morning. I'm waiting to hear back to find out where he jumped, and what idiot instructor would let someone on their FIRST SOLO use a camera.

Are we just getting stupider as a sport, or am I overreacting?

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s


(This post was edited by taylor.freefall on Jan 16, 2012, 11:25 AM)


Namowal  (A 63059)

Jan 16, 2012, 12:23 PM
Post #3 of 175 (8400 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Someone actually posted that on Facebook this morning. I'm waiting to hear back to find out where he jumped, and what idiot instructor would let someone on their FIRST SOLO use a camera.

Are we just getting stupider as a sport, or am I overreacting?

Well, if he (or she) keeps it up we might end up with some "why jumping with a camera so early is, in fact, a bad idea" footage...Unsure


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 16, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #4 of 175 (8297 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anyone recognize the DZ? Who lets a student jump w/a camera?! DSE has a nice long list of incidents/reasons why low time jumpers shouldn't put a camera on. That kid is prime to join the list, posthumously...


wildWilly  (B License)

Jan 16, 2012, 2:07 PM
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Re: [PiLFy] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

According to the video it's Skydive Hollister.


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 16, 2012, 2:25 PM
Post #6 of 175 (8254 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

- Just wanted to add - I don't want to flame this guy if he isn't aware of the dangers of using a camera so early in his jumping career - I'm not saying ignorance is a defense but maybe his instructors/DZ could point him in the right direction.


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Jan 16, 2012, 2:55 PM
Post #7 of 175 (8207 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post


I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s
Guy/gal can't even keep their heading upon deploying. Unsure


(This post was edited by JerseyShawn on Jan 16, 2012, 3:04 PM)


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 16, 2012, 3:10 PM
Post #8 of 175 (8184 views)
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Re: [wildWilly] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

An USPA member DZ that allows students to jump wearing a camera???


format  (B 15348)

Jan 16, 2012, 3:46 PM
Post #9 of 175 (8148 views)
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Re: [PiLFy] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
An USPA member DZ that allows students to jump wearing a camera???

No way, I do not believe it.
Not even for non-USPA DZ


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 16, 2012, 4:05 PM
Post #10 of 175 (8120 views)
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Re: [format] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
An USPA member DZ that allows students to jump wearing a camera???

No way, I do not believe it.
Not even for non-USPA DZ

You'd be wrong. I've collected two videos from Cat C jumps, where the student was WEARING the camera on the jump.
It is being done in some places. Stupid, but it's not a USPA requirement to not wear a camera. No rules are being broken, just a lack of sensibility


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 16, 2012, 4:10 PM
Post #11 of 175 (8108 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Someone actually posted that on Facebook this morning. I'm waiting to hear back to find out where he jumped, and what idiot instructor would let someone on their FIRST SOLO use a camera.

Are we just getting stupider as a sport, or am I overreacting?

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s

The plane in that video is the same PAC (N750SN) that is shown on the Skydive Hollister website. Looks like a pattern of noobs with cameras.


Zymurdoo  (D 16833)

Jan 16, 2012, 4:11 PM
Post #12 of 175 (8104 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s

http://www.youtube.com/...in_order&list=UL

Check out the next one on his video list...

Looks to me like an AFF dive with a freaking costume on. WTF?


FallloutboyDAoC  (A 55768)

Jan 16, 2012, 4:44 PM
Post #13 of 175 (8067 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

It's his 16th jump, 7th solo.

Wouldn't this guy only be able to jump with coaches? Is Hollister a USPA dropzone? It'd be pretty fucked up for a coach to agree to filming shit like that.


(This post was edited by FallloutboyDAoC on Jan 16, 2012, 4:54 PM)


monkycndo  (D License)

Jan 16, 2012, 5:11 PM
Post #14 of 175 (8031 views)
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"Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Not surprised if it is Hollister.

Just one more reason to add to my list of many reasons why I will not jump there with the current management that is in charge.

Sad, because it was my home DZ and where I started.Frown


JohnnyMarko

Jan 16, 2012, 5:14 PM
Post #15 of 175 (8024 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Video's been removed....He seems really cool, I bet his dick is HUGE!!!


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Jan 16, 2012, 5:14 PM
Post #16 of 175 (8023 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Next time your on a load ask the GoPro sitting next to you how many jumps he has. Bet it's under 100 more then half the time. I don't think any dz gives a flying fuck about GoPro's. Funny though how much time the noobs put into uploading their video of their hands and arms flailing around with an occasional other persons foot but they always get a good look at their canopy opening instead of fucking watching for canopies. I swear they are hoping for a malfunction so they can have a cool video. One day they are gonna have a collision and miss the whole thing because they where staring at their canopy Crazy


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 16, 2012, 6:10 PM
Post #17 of 175 (7972 views)
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Re: [catfishhunter] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Next time your on a load ask the GoPro sitting next to you how many jumps he has. Bet it's under 100 more then half the time. I don't think any dz gives a flying fuck about GoPro's.

You're be wrong about that. Skydive Spaceland has a 200 jump minimum to fly ANY camera.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jan 16, 2012, 6:19 PM
Post #18 of 175 (7963 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously has mad skillz. C'mon guys, I mean really... aint NOTHIN' to this shit, after all!! Everybody's got to learn to be not so freakin' uptight!! Go, suoer-dude... go!!!

Crazy


jshiloh

Jan 16, 2012, 7:09 PM
Post #19 of 175 (7923 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Someone actually posted that on Facebook this morning. I'm waiting to hear back to find out where he jumped, and what idiot instructor would let someone on their FIRST SOLO use a camera.

Are we just getting stupider as a sport, or am I overreacting?

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s

The plane in that video is the same PAC (N750SN) that is shown on the Skydive Hollister website. Looks like a pattern of noobs with cameras.

Considering Hollister had a fatality 6-7 months ago that involved a camera flyer who didn't have anywhere near the requisite jumps, you'd think they'd be a little less care-free about this kind of shit. But I can't really say I'm surprised. Crazy


JohnRich  (D License)

Jan 16, 2012, 7:46 PM
Post #20 of 175 (7904 views)
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Re: [catfishhunter] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
they always get a good look at their canopy opening instead of fucking watching for canopies. I swear they are hoping for a malfunction so they can have a cool video. One day they are gonna have a collision and miss the whole thing because they were staring at their canopy Crazy

Yep, the camera flyers don't like to look around because that makes for jerky video, and no one wants to watch jerky video. So the more people we have in the air with cameras, the fewer people there are actually looking around to avoid in-air collisions. Some day soon, there will be entire loads of camera people flying around not paying attention to each other, and then there will be a terrific collision as a consequence of that lack of awareness, with resulting injuries and death.

But it will sure make for some cool video! I can't wait!


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Jan 16, 2012, 7:48 PM)


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Jan 16, 2012, 9:12 PM
Post #21 of 175 (7825 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post


http://www.youtube.com/...in_order&list=UL

Check out the next one on his video list...

Looks to me like an AFF dive with a freaking costume on. WTF?
At least his red cutaway matches his red suit.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jan 16, 2012, 9:48 PM
Post #22 of 175 (7803 views)
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Re: [JohnnyMarko] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Video's been removed....He seems really cool, I bet his dick is HUGE!!!
PervertSlySlySlySly


it's been there for over a year and only just now removed, so which one of you posters is it then???


Care to talk us though, the how and whys of wearing a camera with so little experience?


JohnnyMarko

Jan 16, 2012, 11:12 PM
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

If I was him, I don't know if I'd be more embarrased by the skydiving videos or the other videos he has posted....my godLaughUnsure


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jan 17, 2012, 2:47 AM
Post #24 of 175 (7707 views)
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Re: [jshiloh] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Someone actually posted that on Facebook this morning. I'm waiting to hear back to find out where he jumped, and what idiot instructor would let someone on their FIRST SOLO use a camera.

Are we just getting stupider as a sport, or am I overreacting?

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s

The plane in that video is the same PAC (N750SN) that is shown on the Skydive Hollister website. Looks like a pattern of noobs with cameras.

Considering Hollister had a fatality 6-7 months ago that involved a camera flyer who didn't have anywhere near the requisite jumps, you'd think they'd be a little less care-free about this kind of shit. But I can't really say I'm surprised. Crazy

Ouch.


Skyper

Jan 17, 2012, 3:41 AM
Post #25 of 175 (7688 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yep, the camera flyers don't like to look around because that makes for jerky video, and no one wants to watch jerky video. So the more people we have in the air with cameras, the fewer people there are actually looking around to avoid in-air collisions. Some day soon, there will be entire loads of camera people flying around not paying attention to each other, and then there will be a terrific collision as a consequence of that lack of awareness, with resulting injuries and death.

But it will sure make for some cool video! I can't wait!

have you seen the video of the last incident on Hollister involving the low timer with a cam?

if (or rather - when) this accident happens again you won't be able to see the video - cause they'll start complaining about their privacy, legal issues, family concerns, copyright etc...


JohnRich  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 8:00 AM
Post #26 of 175 (2405 views)
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Re: [Skyper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Yep, the camera flyers don't like to look around because that makes for jerky video, and no one wants to watch jerky video. So the more people we have in the air with cameras, the fewer people there are actually looking around to avoid in-air collisions. Some day soon, there will be entire loads of camera people flying around not paying attention to each other, and then there will be a terrific collision as a consequence of that lack of awareness, with resulting injuries and death.

But it will sure make for some cool video! I can't wait!

have you seen the video of the last incident on Hollister involving the low timer with a cam?

if (or rather - when) this accident happens again you won't be able to see the video - cause they'll start complaining about their privacy, legal issues, family concerns, copyright etc...

Now why do you want to go and spoil the party. The point of wearing a GoPro is to get good crash video. And the point of good crash video is to show it to everyone. And now you're gonna go and make everyone not want to show off their crash videos. Dang you!


JohnnyMarko

Jan 17, 2012, 8:39 AM
Post #27 of 175 (2378 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s

http://www.youtube.com/...in_order&list=UL

Check out the next one on his video list...

Looks to me like an AFF dive with a freaking costume on. WTF?

No, check out his NEXT video...
http://www.youtube.com/...=20&feature=plcp

ETA: the NEXT NEXT one http://www.youtube.com/...=plcp&playnext=1


(This post was edited by JohnnyMarko on Jan 17, 2012, 8:40 AM)


Zymurdoo  (D 16833)

Jan 17, 2012, 1:31 PM
Post #28 of 175 (2268 views)
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Re: [JohnnyMarko] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, check out his NEXT video...
http://www.youtube.com/...=20&feature=plcp

ETA: the NEXT NEXT one http://www.youtube.com/...=plcp&playnext=1

Now that is 2 mins and 35 seconds I will never get back.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jan 17, 2012, 1:37 PM
Post #29 of 175 (2263 views)
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Re: [DSE] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish I had video of the Cat A jump that the student put a GoPro on for. The rational for that I had heard was since he had the GoPro on for months on end in Iraq he would be fine since he had proved to be able to perform in high pressure situations.

Its going to come down to the USPA either eliminating the recommendation for the 200 jumps or putting it as a BSR since its pretty clear the recommendation is being ignored every day.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jan 17, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #30 of 175 (2246 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Someone actually posted that on Facebook this morning. I'm waiting to hear back to find out where he jumped, and what idiot instructor would let someone on their FIRST SOLO use a camera.

Are we just getting stupider as a sport, or am I overreacting?

perhaps he'd like to find the "best and fastest" way to become an instructor


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 17, 2012, 2:15 PM
Post #31 of 175 (2232 views)
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Re: [catfishhunter] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

"Next time your on a load ask the GoPro sitting next to you how many jumps he has. Bet it's under 100 more then half the time. I don't think any dz gives a flying fuck about GoPro's."

I jump at DZs where people will get called on that. This is even worse, though. It's not even an inexperienced, licensed jumper. It's a freaking STUDENT(?!). ShockedMad


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Jan 17, 2012, 2:35 PM
Post #32 of 175 (2218 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Its going to come down to the USPA either eliminating the recommendation for the 200 jumps or putting it as a BSR since its pretty clear the recommendation is being ignored every day.

A recommendation could have an effect on a DZ that does not follow it. If an issue happens and the liability train starts rolling they will have to explain why it was ignored. That doesnt help the injured party though. I would be in favor of making that a BSR. I think it would be a hard one to enforce though.


JohnnyMarko

Jan 17, 2012, 4:59 PM
Post #33 of 175 (2147 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
No, check out his NEXT video...
http://www.youtube.com/...=20&feature=plcp

ETA: the NEXT NEXT one http://www.youtube.com/...=plcp&playnext=1

Now that is 2 mins and 35 seconds I will never get back.

Sowwy Blush


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 17, 2012, 5:55 PM
Post #34 of 175 (2122 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Its going to come down to the USPA either eliminating the recommendation for the 200 jumps or putting it as a BSR since its pretty clear the recommendation is being ignored every day.

A recommendation could have an effect on a DZ that does not follow it. If an issue happens and the liability train starts rolling they will have to explain why it was ignored. That doesnt help the injured party though. I would be in favor of making that a BSR. I think it would be a hard one to enforce though.

Maybe having to do a short (camera safety) course should be a prerequisite to jumping camera. Like the canopy course is now for people wanting a B license...


hillson  (D 33134)

Jan 17, 2012, 6:27 PM
Post #35 of 175 (2096 views)
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Re: [Zymurdoo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s

http://www.youtube.com/...in_order&list=UL

Check out the next one on his video list...

Looks to me like an AFF dive with a freaking costume on. WTF?

1) Didn't even pretend to spot
2) I counted maybe 5 alti checks
3) flew like a can of pringles
4) delta track =! hands on ass
5) looked at the ground at deployment (contribute to his line twists?)

I'm sure there are more but i stopped paying attention


gearless_chris  (D 29012)

Jan 17, 2012, 7:49 PM
Post #36 of 175 (2043 views)
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Re: [hillson] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

He never looked where he was turning when doing the 360's.


JohnnyMarko

Jan 17, 2012, 7:52 PM
Post #37 of 175 (2040 views)
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Re: [gearless_chris] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

All I wanna know is, where is this guy and when can I get on his load so he can video me in my spiderman halloween costume from 4th grade.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 17, 2012, 8:02 PM
Post #38 of 175 (2036 views)
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Re: [gearless_chris] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
He never looked where he was turning when doing the 360's.

Well, if he looked where he started, then he did look to where he was turning. TongueLaughLaughLaugh


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 18, 2012, 6:17 AM
Post #39 of 175 (1951 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Its going to come down to the USPA either eliminating the recommendation for the 200 jumps or putting it as a BSR since its pretty clear the recommendation is being ignored every day.

USPA doesn't have 10 + years of stats on incidents caused by GoPros yet. Don't hold your breath.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Jan 18, 2012, 7:41 AM
Post #40 of 175 (1899 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Love the idea. It would even go very well with the C license 200 jump requirement.


yoink

Jan 18, 2012, 8:18 AM
Post #41 of 175 (1864 views)
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Re: [hillson] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

I saw a similar thing on youtube over the weekend only it was jumping camera on his "6th solo". Thought the same thing.
I guess some DZ's don't mind, or don't check?
Here's the link - says total jumps "16 so far". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcHICAzzY_s

http://www.youtube.com/...in_order&list=UL

Check out the next one on his video list...

Looks to me like an AFF dive with a freaking costume on. WTF?

1) Didn't even pretend to spot
2) I counted maybe 5 alti checks
3) flew like a can of pringles
4) delta track =! hands on ass
5) looked at the ground at deployment (contribute to his line twists?)

I'm sure there are more but i stopped paying attention


So we've gone from saying that being allowed to wear a camera while you're a student is a dumb idea, to just bitching about his general skydiving, huh?

That looked like some sort of qualification jump to me, so answer me this - how are YOUR student jumps going? I'm sure you look like a pro and fly perfectly...

Unimpressed


joephus  (C 41172)

Jan 18, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #42 of 175 (1815 views)
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Re: [hillson] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
2) I counted maybe 5 alti checks

Just out of curiosity, how many are you expecting him to do?


hillson  (D 33134)

Jan 18, 2012, 9:34 AM
Post #43 of 175 (1800 views)
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Re: [yoink] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Never suggested that I did (or that I do). I'll be happy to spring for a video of my check dive and post it for your observations.

But I'm not going to waste my lift ticket geeking the camera.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 18, 2012, 9:45 AM
Post #44 of 175 (1785 views)
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Re: [hillson] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Never suggested that I did (or that I do). I'll be happy to spring for a video of my check dive and post it for your observations.

But I'm not going to waste my lift ticket geeking the camera.

There's nothing wrong with a student geeking the camera from time to time. After all, we're here to have some fun. it's students wearing the camera that is at issue!


sundevil777  (D License)

Jan 18, 2012, 9:45 AM
Post #45 of 175 (1783 views)
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Re: [joephus] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

The alti checks where he brings his arm down in front (below) him might cause a barrel roll.


hillson  (D 33134)

Jan 18, 2012, 9:46 AM
Post #46 of 175 (1781 views)
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Re: [joephus] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
2) I counted maybe 5 alti checks

Just out of curiosity, how many are you expecting him to do?

Well, if one is going by the book: Altitude check every five seconds or after each maneuver, whichever comes first.

Knowing that everything, of course, does not always "go by the book" I would *hope* that I'd observe them after maneuvers. I, too, have made this error.


Abedy  (D 10153)

Jan 18, 2012, 9:55 AM
Post #47 of 175 (1773 views)
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In reply to:
One day they are gonna have a collision and miss the whole thing because they where staring at their canopy Crazy
And if their girlfriend is just "c00l" she will upload the crash video on Facebook... Generation "only c00l when on the net!!!!11" MadCrazy


yoink

Jan 18, 2012, 10:57 AM
Post #48 of 175 (1733 views)
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In reply to:
Never suggested that I did (or that I do). I'll be happy to spring for a video of my check dive and post it for your observations.

But I'm not going to waste my lift ticket geeking the camera.


You're missing the point entirely.


The guys skydiving skills have no relevance in this thread. He could fly like a World Team member and it would STILL be a dumb idea to wear a camera at his experience level.

Your post was just bitching about a check dive that was found on his youtube channel; overly bitchy, in my opinion.
At your point in your skydiving career you should be saying 'nice one completing your checkout dive, dude!' and be stoked for a fellow student while leaving the hyper-critical appraisal to others. By all means form your own opinions, but posting as an expert-type analysis from your ivory tower makes you come accross as kinda dumb...


(This post was edited by yoink on Jan 18, 2012, 11:01 AM)


hillson  (D 33134)

Jan 18, 2012, 11:18 AM
Post #49 of 175 (1710 views)
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Copy all. Will reassess my approach.


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 18, 2012, 12:37 PM
Post #50 of 175 (1657 views)
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Quote:
Love the idea. It would even go very well with the C license 200 jump requirement.

I don't, I want you guys to leave it alone and keep it a recommendation only, because I'm going to start using go pros for all my first jump students, mounted into all the old Alti chest mount pillows we got laying around ( we use wrist mounts) the cameras will be inside the pillows and only the small lens will be sticking out and the pillows will be on the chest strap just like we did when we used alti's there back in the day.

No snag's to worry about. And every first jump student get's a video, were going to tell them it's a radio so they won't geek the thing....


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jan 18, 2012, 12:57 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jan 18, 2012, 1:45 PM
Post #51 of 175 (1859 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>And every first jump student get's a video, were going to tell them it's
>a radio so they won't geek the thing....

They'll never figure that one out.


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 19, 2012, 5:25 AM
Post #52 of 175 (1807 views)
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Most won't, because the radio is contained there as well.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 19, 2012, 5:26 AM
Post #53 of 175 (1804 views)
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In reply to:
Love the idea. It would even go very well with the C license 200 jump requirement.

Perfect, we've only been asking for it for 10 years. Smile


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 19, 2012, 6:11 AM
Post #54 of 175 (1782 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Love the idea. It would even go very well with the C license 200 jump requirement.

Perfect, we've only been asking for it for 10 years. Smile

...and only 10 more to go!

(call me a cynic, yes. LaughLaugh)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jan 19, 2012, 7:18 AM
Post #55 of 175 (1744 views)
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In reply to:
>And every first jump student get's a video, were going to tell them it's
>a radio so they won't geek the thing....

They'll never figure that one out.

I really doubt the student would be fooled - I really doubt a DZ would be able to hide the fact of video on the first jump (1 - it's a sales point so silly not to communicate it; 2 - much of 1st jump business is word of mouth).



as for stratostar's application - this is a camera that is placed on the student, the instructor operates it, etc etc etc - I don't see it complicating the student's experience any more than the radio

in any case - this is a much different issue than a newbie buying and intentionally using and operating the camera themselves - this type of application of a camera has be debated in a completely different light than our normal discussion. so the normal knee jerk of 'no camera for any reason' is obstructive to a fair review of the concept of an on board camera

PROS - I think it would be MUCH less distracting than having a separate camera flyer out in front of an AFF Cat A; you always get the shot; it doesn't take another slot on the plane

CONS - a separate camera flyer can get out of eyeshot if he's a distraction; the outside video is infinitely better for review or anything constructive to teaching; this is just one more thing for the instructor to turn on and then gather up later


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jan 19, 2012, 7:19 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 19, 2012, 7:26 AM
Post #56 of 175 (1737 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Love the idea. It would even go very well with the C license 200 jump requirement.

Perfect, we've only been asking for it for 10 years. Smile


What are your thoughts on having a 'get signed off' thing for jumping a camera.

DSE could maybe make up a 1/2 hour safety video and sell it to the USPA to be distributed to all the 'union' drop-zones...

One would have to have their camera gear approved if jumping it prior to a D license. Would need to be sag free mount(S). Cut-away chin strap...etc.

It would be a positive way to insure all the pertinent info was being downloaded uniformly.

It would be a minor wake up, that just strapping on a GoPro isn't as easy or harmless in THIS sport as it is in nude bungee jumping or rocket propelled skate boarding.

It might discourage those not committed to doing it in a safe & thoughtful manner from even dickin' around...if they have to lay out a few bills for camera specific headgear.

It would give DSE something to do since I'm sure he's bored and could use the extra $27.50 USPA would be willing to put into it! Sly


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 19, 2012, 8:18 AM
Post #57 of 175 (1702 views)
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For the record, my thoughts were not to try to fool anyone, but I would not point it out, just like I train FJC's and never talk about having a radio till after they are done with the canopy control part of class and or when they get geared up, the students take in the info and retain it much better.

So when I suit up someone and they ask, "what is this" we are placing on their chest strap, the reply is: it's your radio, they go ok, you'll be talking to us? Yes, but this could fail so you need to use the training you got in canopy control.... they are content and move along.

Students are so over loaded at that point, very few notice the small lens embedded in the pillow next to the radio. I have not done this yet, it's a idea I have, I will test this on tandem students first, without a radio, just a chest pillow, I'm willing to bet 95% (or more) of people will have no clue there is small camera pointed up at them hidden in the pillow.

With SL or AFF FJ's, if you point it out and tell them, 75% or more will be geeking the damn thing and flying around with their head up their ass, the proof of that is all the retards with low jump numbers who run out and strap on one of these and think nothing of it, see the list DSE put together.


missbrz  (B License)

Jan 19, 2012, 11:51 AM
Post #58 of 175 (1642 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
For the record, my thoughts were not to try to fool anyone, but I would not point it out, just like I train FJC's and never talk about having a radio till after they are done with the canopy control part of class and or when they get geared up, the students take in the info and retain it much better.

So when I suit up someone and they ask, "what is this" we are placing on their chest strap, the reply is: it's your radio, they go ok, you'll be talking to us? Yes, but this could fail so you need to use the training you got in canopy control.... they are content and move along.

Students are so over loaded at that point, very few notice the small lens embedded in the pillow next to the radio. I have not done this yet, it's a idea I have, I will test this on tandem students first, without a radio, just a chest pillow, I'm willing to bet 95% (or more) of people will have no clue there is small camera pointed up at them hidden in the pillow.

With SL or AFF FJ's, if you point it out and tell them, 75% or more will be geeking the damn thing and flying around with their head up their ass, the proof of that is all the retards with low jump numbers who run out and strap on one of these and think nothing of it, see the list DSE put together.


I'm confused. But maybe I'm imagining it wrong. As I understand it, you're talking about mounting a camera on the student's chest pointed at them... How is the camera on their chest going to get anything besides sky? Maybe if you stuck it far out & angled it up you might get their chin, but how is that useful or good video? Or am I picturing it wrong?


SethInMI  (A 47765)

Jan 19, 2012, 12:59 PM
Post #59 of 175 (1611 views)
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In reply to:
I'm confused. But maybe I'm imagining it wrong. As I understand it, you're talking about mounting a camera on the student's chest pointed at them... How is the camera on their chest going to get anything besides sky? Maybe if you stuck it far out & angled it up you might get their chin, but how is that useful or good video? Or am I picturing it wrong?

You would get a good view of the area in front of the student. I attached a pic billvon took (and posted) with a chest cam from the 2006 400 way as an idea of what a chest cam shot may be able to see.

I think you would get good shots of the plane exit and canopy opening sequence and any time an instructor was in front of the student.


(This post was edited by SethInMI on Jan 19, 2012, 12:59 PM)
Attachments: sector2_with_camera.jpg (188 KB)


missbrz  (B License)

Jan 19, 2012, 1:59 PM
Post #60 of 175 (1576 views)
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That's what I figured you would see. But wouldn't a more effective video be from mounting the camera to the instructor's chest strap? Then you could actually see body position of the student. I dont see how seeing what's in front of the student would help the student from an instructional stand point or how that would be a good video for posterity even...


SethInMI  (A 47765)

Jan 19, 2012, 2:13 PM
Post #61 of 175 (1567 views)
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I guess for a first AFF jump, an instructor chest view would be better, but not much as they are close and on the side the whole time.

Or maybe stratostar is running an IAD or SL program? I can't tell, his DZ.com profile is not helpful...Sly


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 19, 2012, 2:13 PM
Post #62 of 175 (1568 views)
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In reply to:
That's what I figured you would see. But wouldn't a more effective video be from mounting the camera to the instructor's chest strap? Then you could actually see body position of the student. I dont see how seeing what's in front of the student would help the student from an instructional stand point or how that would be a good video for posterity even...

Not for Static-Liners. Wink


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 19, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #63 of 175 (1541 views)
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My thoughts were more for S/L jumpers, you would get a lot of their faces and comments from climb out, strut & deployment to ground. I could be wrong, I have not made a test unit yet.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jan 19, 2012, 2:53 PM)


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Jan 19, 2012, 3:43 PM
Post #64 of 175 (1509 views)
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In reply to:

So when I suit up someone and they ask, "what is this" we are placing on their chest strap, the reply is: it's your radio, they go ok, you'll be talking to us? Yes, but this could fail so you need to use the training you got in canopy control.... they are content and move along.

Students are so over loaded at that point, very few notice the small lens embedded in the pillow next to the radio. I have not done this yet, it's a idea I have, I will test this on tandem students first, without a radio, just a chest pillow, I'm willing to bet 95% (or more) of people will have no clue there is small camera pointed up at them hidden in the pillow.

You're going to lie to your students?

If my instructor lied to me about anything I'd never jump with him/her again or look for another dropzone to learn at.

What are you going to tell your students the camera is when you strap the radio to them?

Or, if you're not using radio for your students on their fjc and they get in a bad spot and get hurt, they ask "how come you didn't use the radio to help me?" You'll tell them you lied it was a camera not a radio?

Edit: spelling


(This post was edited by JerseyShawn on Jan 19, 2012, 3:46 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 19, 2012, 3:48 PM
Post #65 of 175 (1501 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>Most won't, because the radio is contained there as well.

So most won't notice that other students get with a video showing the skydive from the point of view of the camera? Heck, we can barely keep our students from getting bad advice from upjumpers. Trying to keep them from talking to other students? Not going to happen.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 19, 2012, 7:10 PM
Post #66 of 175 (1438 views)
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Whatever happened to jumping out of airplanes for the fricking fun of it????? Read my profile and you'll see my favorite thing to do is embellish old stories into legends! If we had all these cameras back in the day, everyone would be able to prove what a fricken lier I am. Wink

I think cameras should be banned from the sport. Now, youll have to excuse me, were about to do another 30 point 6 way. Smile


(This post was edited by skyjumpenfool on Jan 19, 2012, 7:12 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 19, 2012, 7:13 PM
Post #67 of 175 (1431 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Where did I say I would lie? I said I wouldn't bring it up, not pointing it out is not telling a lie. I also never said we don't use radios, did I. Maybe you should try reading first and not try putting words in my statements and calling me lier.

What I said is in regards to radio, is I don't teach it class because the students retain the canopy course better. In a lot of years I have seen a great deal of people who show up thinking they can half ass it because "you'll be talking us down right". I want my students to know WTF to do with out a radio, it works maybe you should try it.

Quote:
What are you going to tell your students the camera is when you strap the radio to them?

The design I'm thinking about and have tried to explain, is where the camera is hidden in the pillow that the radio is strapped too, and only the lens will be poking out.... I also said I have not made one yet. I think it is easy to build a chest mount pillow camera holder, the pillow are full of foam, we currently use them for the radio and it would keep the thing hidden from view inside the pillow.

As I said I would like to build one and test it on my tandem students first to see how many of them notice it. I think if it's done right not that big of a deal. The biggest concern is geeking the damn thing for a solo student.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jan 19, 2012, 7:15 PM)


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 19, 2012, 8:36 PM
Post #68 of 175 (1399 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think cameras should be banned from the sport. Now, youll have to excuse me, were about to do another 30 point 6 way. Smile


... from 3 grand.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 19, 2012, 8:38 PM
Post #69 of 175 (1395 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think cameras should be banned from the sport. Now, youll have to excuse me, were about to do another 30 point 6 way. Smile


... from 3 grand.


Out of a single 182...


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 19, 2012, 8:39 PM
Post #70 of 175 (1394 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I think cameras should be banned from the sport. Now, youll have to excuse me, were about to do another 30 point 6 way. Smile


... from 3 grand.


Out of a single 182...

Fast plane, flew us up, went and got the other 2 and dropped them to meet us in freefall.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 19, 2012, 9:40 PM
Post #71 of 175 (1369 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>I want my students to know WTF to do with out a radio, it works maybe you should try it.

Do you tell them that the AAD is a jump counter and the RSL is just part of the harness?


JohnnyMarko

Jan 19, 2012, 9:43 PM
Post #72 of 175 (1367 views)
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In reply to:
>I want my students to know WTF to do with out a radio, it works maybe you should try it.

Do you tell them that the AAD is a jump counter and the RSL is just part of the harness?

ZING


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 20, 2012, 4:23 AM
Post #73 of 175 (1342 views)
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Re: [billvon] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>I want my students to know WTF to do with out a radio, it works maybe you should try it.

Do you tell them that the AAD is a jump counter and the RSL is just part of the harness?

No, but since you suggested it, it might be a good idea, right?
LaughLaugh
We could get farther out into left field, eh?
Tell them they don't have to do anything...the instructors are going to save their life.

If you are teaching your students to depend on radio, it's a mistake. Pure and simple. Stratostar has it right.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 20, 2012, 4:25 AM
Post #74 of 175 (1341 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I think cameras should be banned from the sport. Now, youll have to excuse me, were about to do another 30 point 6 way. Smile


... from 3 grand.


Out of a single 182...

In balloon suits.


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 20, 2012, 4:52 AM
Post #75 of 175 (1333 views)
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We don't use AAD's or RSL's, we just cut out little photocopies of cyprus ads and place them in the window and for rsl's we us gutted 550 jesus strings....


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jan 20, 2012, 4:53 AM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 20, 2012, 6:24 AM
Post #76 of 175 (1451 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I think cameras should be banned from the sport. Now, youll have to excuse me, were about to do another 30 point 6 way. Smile


... from 3 grand.


Out of a single 182...

In balloon suits.

..... with my, um, girl friend.... um.. Morgan Fairchild! Yah, that's the ticket. At night!!!!


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Jan 20, 2012, 9:21 AM
Post #77 of 175 (1381 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Where did I say I would lie? I said I wouldn't bring it up, not pointing it out is not telling a lie. I also never said we don't use radios, did I. Maybe you should try reading first and not try putting words in my statements and calling me lier.

What I said is in regards to radio, is I don't teach it class because the students retain the canopy course better. In a lot of years I have seen a great deal of people who show up thinking they can half ass it because "you'll be talking us down right". I want my students to know WTF to do with out a radio, it works maybe you should try it.

Quote:
What are you going to tell your students the camera is when you strap the radio to them?

The design I'm thinking about and have tried to explain, is where the camera is hidden in the pillow that the radio is strapped too, and only the lens will be poking out.... I also said I have not made one yet. I think it is easy to build a chest mount pillow camera holder, the pillow are full of foam, we currently use them for the radio and it would keep the thing hidden from view inside the pillow.

As I said I would like to build one and test it on my tandem students first to see how many of them notice it. I think if it's done right not that big of a deal. The biggest concern is geeking the damn thing for a solo student.

My apologies, I didn't see the post where you stated the radio is along with the camera on the chest mount. Hence my questions on how you would pull it off.

Wasn't calling you a liar, yet, since you haven't deceived anyone yet by not disclosing there's a camera along with the radio. With the art of deception though there is a lie (not fully disclosing all the gear you strap to someone or hiding something from someone is a lie).

I don't know about other students, but I would of figured out there was a camera in there. My first jump I asked about everything that was attached to me, just being curious in nature and always wanting to know how things work.

Good luck with your project. Be safe.


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 20, 2012, 10:04 AM
Post #78 of 175 (1362 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
(not fully disclosing all the gear you strap to someone or hiding something from someone is a lie).

No more like when I take my 4yr old to play group and one of the mom's who don't use a cover when breast feeding has her tit hanging out and a baby nursing, if you never point out that fact that there is an exposed tit, the kid never asks, it's all normal activity to them and they go on about their business of playing.

The only reason to not point out a small camera is the geek factor, the reason the camera would be hidden in a chest mount pillow is too reduce any and all snag hazards & so other assholes can't claim it's a snag hazard and we're going to start killing FJ students because they have a camera strapped to them and calling up USPA and bitching, not to lie or be deceptive to students. If you tested in real world most FJS's would be clueless of the small round lens poking through the cloth of the pillow IMHO.

As I said my only concern with such an idea is how to keep morons from geek'n the damn thing, we already have enough dipshits flying around the skies with their head up their asses, hence the not making big deal of it or stating "here is your radio and camera package, make sure you look here and talk to the video on the way down, have a good jump!

Now, if and when I build one and test it on non students or place one on a tandem (like when I get current with a experienced jumper, first) I might find out the point of view sucks ass and change my mind, but right now, I could see such a system working and being safe, at lease a hell of a lot safer then most the clowns currently running around with them strapped to their heads at 50 jumps or less like we see all over youtube and posted here. And quite frankly, I'm surprised no one is not already doing it and I would not be surprised to learn someone else hasn't thought of the same application & or not tried it or going to try it.

Besides that, what about all the talk about pushing the limits and those who did have got us to where we are today..... It's the same thing, only different....Tongue

Hell, I remember everyone up in arms because the DZO was going to let me start jumping my own, owned paracommander on my second jump, ya had to have 50 t-10 jumps because it's too high performance!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 20, 2012, 10:20 AM
Post #79 of 175 (1351 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>If you are teaching your students to depend on radio, it's a mistake. Pure and
>simple. Stratostar has it right.

Agreed. Same is true if you teach them to depend on their AAD, RSL or instructor.

That being said, it's also a mistake to not tell them that their instructors will be there, or what an AAD is, or what the RSL is. NOT having that information could screw them up. (Rarely but it can happen.)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 20, 2012, 2:18 PM
Post #80 of 175 (1298 views)
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Re: [billvon] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That being said, it's also a mistake to not tell them that their instructors will be there, or .what an AAD is, or what the RSL is. NOT having that information could screw them up. (Rarely but it can happen.)

...which is why I so strongly disagree with the K.I.S.S. method of training.


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Jan 20, 2012, 3:10 PM
Post #81 of 175 (1276 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

What's the k.i.s.s. method of training?


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 20, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #82 of 175 (1275 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Keep it simple stupid!


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Jan 20, 2012, 3:32 PM
Post #83 of 175 (1266 views)
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"Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

My dropzone enforces this rec very strictly. i always questioned the difference but when i finally was able to jump one i had an excess of a few minutes of film because i forgot it was on my helmet haha. i agree jumpers right off student status should not be allowed, but maybe there should be a sign off with the S&TA? then it could be a case by case basis. then if someone with less than 200 jumps was ready to get it they could but if someone who had more than 200 jumps but was still all over the place with skills could be told to wait.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 20, 2012, 4:14 PM
Post #84 of 175 (1252 views)
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Re: [waveoff5500] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>then if someone with less than 200 jumps was ready to get it they could but if
>someone who had more than 200 jumps but was still all over the place with skills could
>be told to wait.

Someone with less than 200 jumps is not ready to do camera; someone with more than 200 jumps MAY be.


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 20, 2012, 5:46 PM
Post #85 of 175 (1233 views)
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In reply to:
>then if someone with less than 200 jumps was ready to get it they could but if
>someone who had more than 200 jumps but was still all over the place with skills could
>be told to wait.

Someone with less than 200 jumps is not ready to do camera; someone with more than 200 jumps MAY be.

I think what waveoff is saying is - how can 200 jumps be a definitive number when, in reality, that's an impossible thing to judge and can only really be judged by somebody with with tons of experience both in skydiving, and skydiving with camera.
DSE does a wingsuit course - wouldn't it be a good idea that there's a camera course too?
I know what your'e saying when you say somebody with over 200 jumps MAYBE able to jump camera - but it's crazy to think that someone has 199 absolutely can not, but somebody with 200 might be able to.
I think it's something that you can't put a number on - it has to be a case by case basis, there's no other way - of course you could say you have to have a 200 jump minimum to even be able to take the course and then do it on a case by case basis - which I think is actually what you mean to be honest, or kind of any way.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 20, 2012, 5:50 PM
Post #86 of 175 (1231 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
>then if someone with less than 200 jumps was ready to get it they could but if
>someone who had more than 200 jumps but was still all over the place with skills could
>be told to wait.

Someone with less than 200 jumps is not ready to do camera; someone with more than 200 jumps MAY be.

DSE does a camera course too.Wink

I think what waveoff is saying is - how can 200 jumps be a definitive number when, in reality, that's an impossible thing to judge and can only really be judged by somebody with with tons of experience both in skydiving, and skydiving with camera.
DSE does a wingsuit course - wouldn't it be a good idea that there's a camera course too?
I know what your'e saying when you say somebody with over 200 jumps MAYBE able to jump camera - but it's crazy to think that someone has 199 absolutely can not, but somebody with 200 might be able to.
I think it's something that you can't put a number on - it has to be a case by case basis, there's no other way - of course you could say you have to have a 200 jump minimum to even be able to take the course and then do it on a case by case basis - which I think is actually what you mean to be honest, or kind of any way.


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 20, 2012, 5:55 PM
Post #87 of 175 (1227 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
>then if someone with less than 200 jumps was ready to get it they could but if
>someone who had more than 200 jumps but was still all over the place with skills could
>be told to wait.

Someone with less than 200 jumps is not ready to do camera; someone with more than 200 jumps MAY be.

I didn't know that?! For newbies too?

DSE does a camera course too.Wink

I think what waveoff is saying is - how can 200 jumps be a definitive number when, in reality, that's an impossible thing to judge and can only really be judged by somebody with with tons of experience both in skydiving, and skydiving with camera.
DSE does a wingsuit course - wouldn't it be a good idea that there's a camera course too?
I know what your'e saying when you say somebody with over 200 jumps MAYBE able to jump camera - but it's crazy to think that someone has 199 absolutely can not, but somebody with 200 might be able to.
I think it's something that you can't put a number on - it has to be a case by case basis, there's no other way - of course you could say you have to have a 200 jump minimum to even be able to take the course and then do it on a case by case basis - which I think is actually what you mean to be honest, or kind of any way.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 20, 2012, 6:46 PM
Post #88 of 175 (1207 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think what waveoff is saying is - how can 200 jumps be a definitive number when, in reality, that's an impossible thing to judge and can only really be judged by somebody with with tons of experience both in skydiving, and skydiving with camera.

....I think it's something that you can't put a number on - it has to be a case by case basis, ...

First, re-read the SIM. You're out-of-date.

Here's' my take.
We have the recommendations for a reason.

c. A USPA C license is recommended.
d. The jumper should have made at least 50 recent
jumps on the same parachute equipment to be
used for camera flying
,
...and more

Note we no longer have a number on it.

What we DO have is young jumpers thinking they have Mad Skillz violating those recommendations because, as you detail, it's being left up to any Tom, Dick and Harry that elects to ignore those recommendations.

If everybody adhered to the recommendations, ALL the recommendations (check the SIM), we wouldn't be having these problems to the extent we are.

Take note, the recommendations are a minimum, not a cut-and-dry line in the sand....just as Bill pointed out. Having a C license does not automatically qualify you for camera flying....just as having Mad Skillz doesn't.

Just because you can steer a car around the block doesn't mean that I'm going to put you into a Testarossa.


Just this weekend, I had a jumper with just under 400 jumps take his camera out for the first time...unbeknownst to me.

When I found out about it, I asked him, "What are you going to do if your suspension lines get caught up on your camera. He says, "Pull the cutaway chin strap!". Then I asked, "What if you can't get the cutaway chin strap undone?"
Unsure
He had no clue. Didn't even realize it was a horseshoe mal.

You're right. Jump numbers are meaningless if you don't know what you are doing. By the same token having a C-license doesn't mean you know what you are doing.

We have recommendations as a minimum...a minimum...and that's the point.


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 20, 2012, 7:35 PM
Post #89 of 175 (1194 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think what waveoff is saying is - how can 200 jumps be a definitive number when, in reality, that's an impossible thing to judge and can only really be judged by somebody with with tons of experience both in skydiving, and skydiving with camera.

....I think it's something that you can't put a number on - it has to be a case by case basis, ...

First, re-read the SIM. You're out-of-date.

Here's' my take.
We have the recommendations for a reason.

c. A USPA C license is recommended.
d. The jumper should have made at least 50 recent
jumps on the same parachute equipment to be
used for camera flying
,
...and more

Note we no longer have a number on it.

What we DO have is young jumpers thinking they have Mad Skillz violating those recommendations because, as you detail, it's being left up to any Tom, Dick and Harry that elects to ignore those recommendations.

If everybody adhered to the recommendations, ALL the recommendations (check the SIM), we wouldn't be having these problems to the extent we are.

Take note, the recommendations are a minimum, not a cut-and-dry line in the sand....just as Bill pointed out. Having a C license does not automatically qualify you for camera flying....just as having Mad Skillz doesn't.

Just because you can steer a car around the block doesn't mean that I'm going to put you into a Testarossa.


Just this weekend, I had a jumper with just under 400 jumps take his camera out for the first time...unbeknownst to me.

When I found out about it, I asked him, "What are you going to do if your suspension lines get caught up on your camera. He says, "Pull the cutaway chin strap!". Then I asked, "What if you can't get the cutaway chin strap undone?"
Unsure
He had no clue. Didn't even realize it was a horseshoe mal.

You're right. Jump numbers are meaningless if you don't know what you are doing. By the same token having a C-license doesn't mean you know what you are doing.

We have recommendations as a minimum...a minimum...and that's the point.

Pops I don't want to get in to an argument over this - and my post wasn't meant to come across in an argumentative way.
You speak to me like I'm a fucking idiot when I'm only trying to put forward suggestions to the problem of low jump numbers getting in to problems when introducing a camera.
Whether a ruling is made or simply recommendations are continued is irrelevant to me. As it stands; if it remains recommendations only, a 50 jump skydiver can perfectly "legally" jump camera - so please don't complain when those people do just that.
- Oh, just to add, as you say - people ARE not (and will not) always adhere to the recommendations - THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!!


sacex250

Jan 20, 2012, 8:34 PM
Post #90 of 175 (1182 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If everybody adhered to the recommendations, ALL the recommendations (check the SIM), we wouldn't be having these problems to the extent we are.
Could you be a little more specific about all of these extensive problems due to people not following the recommendations in the SIM?

Quote:
Take note, the recommendations are a minimum, not a cut-and-dry line in the sand....
By definition, a recommendation is not a minimum.

Following the rules, BSRs or otherwise, also means not misinterpreting them by reading too much into them.


skyguyscott  (D 13458)

Jan 20, 2012, 10:28 PM
Post #91 of 175 (1162 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Im really liking this discussion. We've come a very long way since the days of cameras being the size and weight of bricks strapped to your helmet.

Also new: facebook and youtube. Combined with small, relatively inexpensive, lightweight cameras, newbies often can't wait to video their adventures and post them for all the world to see.

The technology exists today for someone to fashion a video camera that could easily fit INSIDE a full-face helmet (Think of the size of the HD camera inside the iPhone), though I have not seen anyone do this yet.

I can see some benefit to reviewing a student jump from the student POV, especially if there was an incident; the footage may be helpful.

The question of course, is how much of a distraction is having a camera to the jumper. If the camera evolves into a mere recording device solely to inconspicuously monitor and record the jump, it may not be a distraction, especially if it becomes just another piece of gear.

But if the jumper is using the camera as a tool of expression, to shoot a particular subject, then I think they will be much more focused on it (and less so on their environment -- their situational awareness suffers)

Recently, the US government has determined that cell phone use while driving, even hands-free phones, are too distracting and recommends their being banned.

The tech keeps evolving, but our brains, not so much.


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 20, 2012, 10:40 PM
Post #92 of 175 (1161 views)
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Re: [skyguyscott] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the most sensible posts yet...
Are you more likely to "geek" around in front of your own (self attached) camera, or are you more likely to geek around in front of an instructor held camera (or camera guy for all of you that are going to jump in and say.. "a camera doesn't just have to be held by an instructor"...).
The bottom line is there needs to be an "industry standard" - only for the sole purpose of solving these ridiculous (self righteous) arguments about "who should" and "who.. should not"!


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jan 20, 2012, 11:35 PM
Post #93 of 175 (1146 views)
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Re: [skyguyscott] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The technology exists today for someone to fashion a video camera that could easily fit INSIDE a full-face helmet (Think of the size of the HD camera inside the iPhone), though I have not seen anyone do this yet.

I have. One of the jumpers I talked to about cameraflying last season came to show me his brand new setup. He had a bulletcam-type camera (actually a bit smaller than that) mounted on the inside of his visor.

I haven't seen any footage of it, so maybe the setup didn't work so well in practice, but certainly there was at least no snag possibility there whatsoever. I thought it was original, in any case Wink


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 21, 2012, 2:51 AM
Post #94 of 175 (1126 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Pops I don't want to get in to an argument over this - and my post wasn't meant to come across in an argumentative way.
Neither was mine and I didn't intend it to be. Sorry if it came across that way.

In reply to:
You speak to me like I'm a fucking idiot when I'm only trying to put forward suggestions to the problem of low jump numbers getting in to problems when introducing a camera.
Please, let's not go off the deep end here. I was not talking to you as an idiot. As I stated, "here's MY take on it." ...MY opinion and viewpoint. That's all. No hammering you except for maybe the bit about out-of-date with the200-jump number.

In reply to:
As it stands; if it remains recommendations only, a 50 jump skydiver can perfectly "legally" jump camera -
All true. We are not addressing legality. We are addressing common sense.

In reply to:
so please don't complain when those people do just that.
Sorry. That will never happen. I am not one of those who turn a blind eye when "people do just that." I would hope that you, too, would stand up when you see something out of whack as opposed to letting it pass. That's one of the major problems today....few people stand up and question the actions of others. And that goes well beyond just camera flying.

In reply to:
- Oh, just to add, as you say - people ARE not (and will not) always adhere to the recommendations - THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT!!
Agreed! And THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM!


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Jan 21, 2012, 3:06 AM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 21, 2012, 2:59 AM
Post #95 of 175 (1126 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Could you be a little more specific about all of these extensive problems due to people not following the recommendations in the SIM?
Do your own research. It's a great way to learn.
I'd suggest starting with camera flying, looking into wing suiting, moving on the high-performance landings and really getting deep into emergency procedures. You may discover extensive problems caused by not knowing and/or ignoring that information in the SIM.

You could short-cut a little by researching DZ.com threads. Incident forum would get you started.

In reply to:
By definition, a recommendation is not a minimum.
What do you think those recommendations really mean and what are they for? Do you know how those recommendations came about?


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 5:49 AM
Post #96 of 175 (1101 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The bottom line is there needs to be an "industry standard" - only for the sole purpose of solving these ridiculous (self righteous) arguments about "who should" and "who.. should not"!

USPA's "recommendations", combined with applicable FAR's, already are the "industry standard" for skydiving in the US.


yardart  (D 26764)

Jan 21, 2012, 6:45 AM
Post #97 of 175 (1082 views)
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Re: [skybytch] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish they would hurry up with the BSR. It's making my job a real pain in the ass. Students are showing up from other larger DZ's with gopro's and can't understand why we insist that they follow the uspa recommendations. I'm beginning to think that every student should get a camera so that we don't lose the work. It really pisses me off that everyone can't get on the same page on this. Sorry, just venting.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 7:11 AM
Post #98 of 175 (1075 views)
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Re: [yardart] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wish they would hurry up with the BSR.

Don't hold your breath. You'll turn blue. There won't be any new BSR's until USPA members elect BOD members who are willing to do what's right for the sport today and into the future, not just continue doing what was right for the sport 20 years ago...


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 21, 2012, 8:41 AM
Post #99 of 175 (1045 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>how can 200 jumps be a definitive number when, in reality, that's an impossible thing
>to judge and can only really be judged by somebody with with tons of experience both
>in skydiving, and skydiving with camera.

You can't. As with any number in skydiving it is our best estimate of a minimum. Before 200 jumps there's no way in hell you have the skill. The jump after that nothing changes. But at 250? Maybe there's a chance if you really work your ass off. 300? A better chance. 500? Now you're getting into the range where 50% of people out there might be ready for it with a moderate amount of work.

If this is really a problem we could come up with a pretty simple test for it. Want to video 4-way? Learn to do at least 4 points in time so you understand the flying. Then go up with a 4-way group and fly in the camera position with someone else flying outside camera. Stay within 20 feet of the group at all times, without fallrate or heading problems. Do this with both a good 4 way team and a bad 4 way team. Then repeat with a suit with camera wings. Get all the jumps on outside video so an instructor (or the head video guy or whoever) can evaluate your flying. If you can do all that then you've demonstrated you're ready to fly camera.

And heck you could try to do that all at jump number 8. It would be a pretty big waste of money though.


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Jan 21, 2012, 8:43 AM
Post #100 of 175 (1044 views)
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Re: [skybytch] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

,
In reply to:
In reply to:
I wish they would hurry up with the BSR.

Don't hold your breath. You'll turn blue. There won't be any new BSR's until USPA members elect BOD members who are willing to do what's right for the sport today and into the future, not just continue doing what was right for the sport 20 years ago...

They haven't done a whole lot where people have been being killed right and left by people doing high performance landings, so why should they care if some kid wants to take himself and his buddy out... at least they bring it on themselves.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 21, 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #101 of 175 (1204 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
DSE does a camera course too.Wink

I didn't know that?! For newbies too?

It's only for newbies. Experienced camera flyers aren't going to learn much from me. Norman Kent has a basic and advanced camera flying course too.

My course starts with 2 hours of ground discussion, a jump, and then we go to the tunnel once the sun goes down. Then more ground time, 2 more jumps. Like the USPA Coach Course, you get some "oops" opportunities and we evaluate how you respond to them.

When you're on the upside of 200 jumps, it seems like a long way off and a meaningless milepost. However, there is a lot to learn, both cognitive and instinctive. When you reach the downside of 200 jumps, you'll quickly realize why the recommendation is referenced by most everyone.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 21, 2012, 10:28 AM
Post #102 of 175 (1204 views)
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Re: [skybytch] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
USPA's "recommendations", combined with applicable FAR's, already are the "industry standard" for skydiving in the US.

It's amazing that you had to point that out.
On behalf of the smarter youngsters out there, thanks.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 11:08 AM
Post #103 of 175 (1188 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My thoughts were more for S/L jumpers, you would get a lot of their faces and comments from climb out, strut & deployment to ground.

Not only that, but if you are mounting your radio also nearby (in the same chest-mount?) - I could see this making a decent "documentary" of the canopy descent, vis-a-vis response to, and even instructor review and on-going evaluation/consideration of honing of their radio instruction even.

I think the idea sounds quite interesting/intriguing. Keep us posted as to how it goes - or better yet, add something on this we can all follow in the instructors forum as well. This is now starting to get quite a bit off the beaten path of the OP & this thread.


Krip  (Student)

Jan 21, 2012, 11:52 AM
Post #104 of 175 (1180 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

I took my own pics on my First Tandem.Laugh

The TM in training needed some dead weight.Cool By Then I had over 1000 jumps but ZERO camera experience.

Scratch head, scratch butt, came up with a plan discussed it with my bud the Tandem trainee and my other bud the video dude.

This was pre digital but my 35mm was a simple point and shoot and had a auto wind. Stuffed the camera in my jumpsuit.

After the droque went out We took out our camera took closeups of ourself , the TM and got some nice shots of the video dude. Put the camera away before the trap door opened and had a nice standup close to the peas.

WARNING: Do not try this without permission of the TM and until you have a minimum of 200 jumps. Like the SIM says.

Fun tandem, price was right (Zero). LaughLaugh


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 21, 2012, 1:48 PM
Post #105 of 175 (1160 views)
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In reply to:
I took my own pics on my First Tandem.Laugh

The TM in training needed some dead weight.Cool

You have more nerve than I have!
LaughLaughLaugh


sacex250

Jan 21, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #106 of 175 (1155 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Could you be a little more specific about all of these extensive problems due to people not following the recommendations in the SIM?
Do your own research. It's a great way to learn.
I'd suggest starting with camera flying, looking into wing suiting, moving on the high-performance landings and really getting deep into emergency procedures. You may discover extensive problems caused by not knowing and/or ignoring that information in the SIM.

You could short-cut a little by researching DZ.com threads. Incident forum would get you started.

I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license. By comparison, a B-License holder can be trained to be a coach to another jumper but is regarded as unqualified to jump with a camera.

In reply to:
What do you think those recommendations really mean and what are they for? Do you know how those recommendations came about?
The recommendation wasn't written with small format cameras used by jumpers for their personal POV recordings of their own jumps in mind; it was written with professional camera flyers using larger, heavier equipment in mind in which the main purpose of the jump would be to photograph or record other jumpers.

The requirement of a C-License to add a camera to a jump the jumper would be doing anyway is extreme, which is best evidenced by the fact that everybody misquotes the recommendation as merely 200 jumps because that sounds more reasonable.

These are the facts:

-- There is no BSR or FAA regulation that requires a C-License or 200 jumps to jump with a camera.

-- There has not been one fatality by a skydiver using a small format camera that was caused by the camera.


It's not accidents, fatalities, or injuries that's fueling this debate - it's "oh, the horror" someone posted a video on their Facebook page!


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 21, 2012, 2:19 PM
Post #107 of 175 (1143 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
- There has not been one fatality by a skydiver using a small format camera that was caused by the camera.

Been at least one base jumper because of it and a good deal of close calls to skydivers, just look at the list in video forums. So it's a matter of time as long as people keep thinking as you do.

Quote:
The recommendation wasn't written with small format cameras used by jumpers for their personal POV recordings of their own jumps in mind; it was written with professional camera flyers using larger, heavier equipment

Hey it's small, no big deal


Quote:
It's not accidents, fatalities, or injuries that's fueling this debate - it's "oh, the horror" someone posted a video on their Facebook page!

Plain and simple your wrong on that, people are point out stupid actions of people who think it's small no big deal and posting the proof on facebook, all the info in the sims was written in blood and is there for good reason. If you think other wise and some asshat dzo is will to allow you to do that , go ahead and if you frap in or bust your ass, don't come crying here about or asking for jumpers to help pay your medical bills, also don't be surprised to read posts saying "we tried to tell XYZ dumdass", there is a whole forum full of people who didn't heed the lessons of those before.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 2:50 PM
Post #108 of 175 (1133 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license. By comparison, a B-License holder can be trained to be a coach to another jumper but is regarded as unqualified to jump with a camera.

In reply to:

~ and why don't ya tell us how many jumps YOU have, the licenses and instructional rating YOU hold & the actual 'hands on' experiences YOU'VE had over the years personally dealing with cameras and the problems they can lead to?


...oh yeah that's right, we've HAD this discussion. Laugh


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 4:26 PM
Post #109 of 175 (1112 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

If this were a real DZ, someone like me would tell someone like you that you haven't a clue what you're talking about, you haven't got the experience to be commenting one it, and you'd look a whole lot smarter if you appeared to listen more than you talk.


sacex250

Jan 21, 2012, 4:50 PM
Post #110 of 175 (1106 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If this were a real DZ, someone like me would tell someone like you that you haven't a clue what you're talking about, you haven't got the experience to be commenting one it, and you'd look a whole lot smarter if you appeared to listen more than you talk.
So, I'm guessing you think the same thing of the USPA BOD then?

You know I'm hitting it pretty close when the personal attacks start.


f94sbu  (D 16017)

Jan 21, 2012, 5:16 PM
Post #111 of 175 (1097 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
-- There has not been one fatality by a skydiver using a small format camera that was caused by the camera.

I am sorry, but you are wrong. Last year in Sweden we had an accident where a skydiver (probably) stalled his canopy at around 600m and when the canopy recovered, something got stuck around his GoPro. Eventually, he cut away but as he cutaway, the GoPro was ripped away from his helmet (it was never found) and it probably knocked him unconscious as he never pulled his reserve. His AAD activated a little below 200m (when he reached 35m/s) but his reserve never had time to inflate.

Have you ever seen those knobs they have on boats that are designed to make it easy to attach ropes to them? Now, look at the average GoPro mount. Dont tell me that you dont see the similarities!

Quote:
I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license. By comparison, a B-License holder can be trained to be a coach to another jumper but is regarded as unqualified to jump with a camera.

There is a thread for you, it is called "Small Format Camera "Incident" list" http://www.dropzone.com/...%20incident;#3894693 The fatality will be added there once I have had a chance to do a proper translation of the Swedish incident report.

regards,
Stefan


sacex250

Jan 21, 2012, 5:56 PM
Post #112 of 175 (1090 views)
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Re: [f94sbu] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
-- There has not been one fatality by a skydiver using a small format camera that was caused by the camera.

I am sorry, but you are wrong. Last year in Sweden we had an accident where a skydiver (probably) stalled his canopy at around 600m and when the canopy recovered, something got stuck around his GoPro. Eventually, he cut away but as he cutaway, the GoPro was ripped away from his helmet (it was never found) and it probably knocked him unconscious as he never pulled his reserve. His AAD activated a little below 200m (when he reached 35m/s) but his reserve never had time to inflate.
Well, I'm interested to read the report since no one around here has heard of it.

What did the number of jumps have to do with the accident? Couldn't this have happened to anyone regardless of experience.


In reply to:
Quote:
I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license. By comparison, a B-License holder can be trained to be a coach to another jumper but is regarded as unqualified to jump with a camera.

There is a thread for you, it is called "Small Format Camera "Incident" list" http://www.dropzone.com/...%20incident;#3894693 The fatality will be added there once I have had a chance to do a proper translation of the Swedish incident report.
You mean DSE's thread of non-fatal incidents of people who obviously have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time trying to blame a camera for their own stupidity.


(This post was edited by sacex250 on Jan 21, 2012, 5:57 PM)


f94sbu  (D 16017)

Jan 21, 2012, 6:21 PM
Post #113 of 175 (1073 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well, I'm interested to read the report since no one around here has heard of it.

The report is in swedish, so it is understandably that it didn't get much attention here. The report is available from http://dl.dropbox.com/...20kompr%20format.pdf but it is in Swedish so you'll have to translate it yourself.
The jumper had 362 jumps.

Quote:
What did the number of jumps have to do with the accident? Couldn't this have happened to anyone regardless of experience.

In this case, we will never know, but you asked for a fatality involving a small format camera and I gave you one.

Quote:
You mean DSE's thread of non-fatal incidents of people who obviously have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time trying to blame a camera for their own stupidity.

So, whats your suggestion? Ask people to show that they can walk and chew gum before we allow them to jump? Personally, I think that DSE's thread is a clear sign that a camera adds distraction that a low jump number person is still not capable of handling. They endanger themselves _and_ other people in the process and I dont think it is reasonable to ignore that simply because some people can keep their heads cooler than others.

regards,
Stefan


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 21, 2012, 6:22 PM
Post #114 of 175 (1074 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You mean DSE's thread of non-fatal incidents of people who obviously have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time trying to blame a camera for their own stupidity.

UnsureUnsure
*shaking head*
I just hope you don't have to learn the hard way.
The easy way is just not working.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 21, 2012, 6:29 PM
Post #115 of 175 (1068 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey! Brain flash!

Maybe we can get sacex to guinnea pig your pillow-cam!


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 21, 2012, 7:11 PM
Post #116 of 175 (1050 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

naw, stick with top mounted, more exciting that way.... besides that it's small, so what the big deal with it up there...Laugh


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jan 21, 2012, 8:06 PM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 21, 2012, 7:23 PM
Post #117 of 175 (1041 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

@ sacex250... Really? Unsure

@ everyone else... Here we go again! Unimpressed


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 21, 2012, 7:37 PM
Post #118 of 175 (1031 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>You mean DSE's thread of non-fatal incidents of people who obviously have
>difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time trying to blame a camera for
>their own stupidity.

Yep. And just think - every single one of those people was 100% convinced that they were just fine, that their superior skills could handle any minor incidents with an easy to use camera. They were all as right as you are.

>What did the number of jumps have to do with the accident?

He didn't have enough experience in the bank.

Think of it this way. With every jump you make, you deposit a little bit of skill and experience in the bank. They are generally small deposits; you learned that your altimeter sometimes sticks and how to realize that, or you had line twists and got out of it, or someone cut you off and you successfully avoided it, or you had a momentary PC in tow and it cleared. With all those things you learned a little bit.

Now you stick a camera on your head. 99% of the time your jump goes OK and you can add a little more experience to that account in the bank.

But then there's that 1% of the time when you might have to make a very big withdrawal. You may have a PC/camera entanglement and have to decide whether or not to dump your reserve into the mess. Or you may be intent on filming that lowtimer 2-way and not realize that anything's wrong until the first guy's cypres fires. Or that fun sunset 6-way goes a little awry and you get sucked into a funnel - and land on someone's back from 20 feet above the formation. Or that tether you added to your camera (because you're so clever that you figured out a way to not lose it if your mount breaks) starts bashing the camera into your face when your mount breaks - and then gets wrapped around your slider when you deploy.

At that point you better pray that there's enough experience and training in that bank account to cover your debt - because if there isn't you are going to end up in the hospital (or, like this guy, dead.)

How long does it take to build up that account? Some people can do it in 200 jumps, some people in 500. Some people build it up faster with good training and some build it up more slowly by osmosis.

But I guarantee you that at 50 jumps you won't have enough to cover a big withdrawal. If you have to write it - that check's going to bounce.


skyguyscott  (D 13458)

Jan 21, 2012, 7:45 PM
Post #119 of 175 (1030 views)
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Re: [stratostar] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

The biggest danger introducing a camera to your jumping is not snags (although snags are a very real danger, especially the standard gopro helmut mount, IMHO)

The real danger newbies especially may not realize is how much the mere fact of having a camera on you with the intent of recording something DISTRACTS you from your skydive.

The more you jump, the more experience you will get with how often the unexpected unexpectedly happens. (hey, where did that guy come from....whoah, was that a thermal ... wait, did the wind suddenly shift... I got a mal... wow, i didn't know I opened so low....)

Older, wiser jumpers learn to make allowances for the unexpected -- all those little things that can actually kill you, but no one ever had the chance to tell you about yet, because they are so rare or unexpected.

Putting on a camera may or may not be distracting depending on how you are using it. If you are trying to shot something or keep something in frame -- it is distracting. If you are thinking "how cool is this looking" you are distracted.

If the unexpected happens while you are distracted you and others could die.

This is the key issue with newbies wearing cameras.

And experienced skydivers know all too well how easily it is to become distracted and how deadly that can be.


sacex250

Jan 21, 2012, 9:14 PM
Post #120 of 175 (1026 views)
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Re: [f94sbu] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Well, I'm interested to read the report since no one around here has heard of it.

The report is in swedish, so it is understandably that it didn't get much attention here. The report is available from http://dl.dropbox.com/...20kompr%20format.pdf but it is in Swedish so you'll have to translate it yourself.
The jumper had 362 jumps.

Wow, that was an impressive skydiving accident report. A great argument for the benefit of digital and audible altimeters, besides the data from the CYPRES, the jumper also had an N3 and a ProTrack.

The "theory" presented in the report, because they admit they can't confirm exactly what happened, is that the jumper pulled the slider down behind his head and then did a steep spiraling descent before aggressively leveling off out of the turn. It is believed that the aggressive maneuver caused the risers to twist spinning the jumper's face into the slider causing the GoPro to catch on the slider probably disorienting the jumper and blocking his vision. He managed to cut-away (1,150 ft) which also pulled the GoPro mount off his Bonehead Optik. The mount was held on by two screws, one of the screws was pulled out of the helmet and the mounting plate broke apart from the other screw.

The jumper apparently tumbled out of control and couldn't pull/find his soft reserve handle. The CYPRES fired (635 ft) while the jumper was on his back which likely delayed the opening of the reserve. The jumper hit the ground upright under an opening canopy at about a 4000 fpm impact speed. The jumper is believed to have been conscious at impact because he had put his hands up on the reserve risers. The jumper died at the hospital of blunt force trauma from the impact.

The jumper had gotten his A-License in June of 2009 and had 362 jumps at the time of the accident. In 2010 he did the majority of his jumps on a Spectre 170 before downsizing to a Lotus 135 at 188 jumps. He did 14 jumps on the Lotus and ended 2010 with 202 jumps total.

He then purchased a new Mirage G4 with a Sabre2 135, an Optimum 143, an RSL, and a CYPRES Expert. From February, 2011 to the accident in July, 2011, he did 160 jumps with this rig. He earned his C-License in March, 2011.

The jumper's 232nd jump was his first with the GoPro and it's believed that the majority of his jumps since then (130) were done with it.

The G4 was equipped with an RSL but it was not connected per SFF guidelines for jumping with a camera. Ironically, the RSL likely would have saved his life in this instance.

The report also focuses on the soft reserve handle, due to the disorientation the jumper experienced he may not have been able to locate it.


I apologize if any of this is in error. I only just today learned Swedish.


This jumper effectively did everything correctly and met all the appropriate "recommendations" for camera jumping.

Obviously there's still a lot here to learn from:

Should sliders be brought down behind jumpers heads if they're wearing a camera?

Does the disconnected RSL/Skyhook recommendation for camera jumpers need to be reviewed?

Would a D-Ring reserve handle have helped the jumper manually deploy his reserve?


(This post was edited by sacex250 on Jan 22, 2012, 12:15 AM)


Krip  (Student)

Jan 21, 2012, 9:58 PM
Post #121 of 175 (1005 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I took my own pics on my First Tandem.Laugh

The TM in training needed some dead weight.Cool

You have more nerve than I have!
LaughLaughLaugh

Hi POPs

We both had handles, we both had 1k jumps ea and a free jump is free jump.

I sure as hell wouldn'y do it with someone I didn't know ,

R.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 9:59 PM
Post #122 of 175 (1004 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license.

In reply to:


So I take it you are rethinking your prior statement?


sacex250

Jan 21, 2012, 10:09 PM
Post #123 of 175 (997 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license.

In reply to:


So I take it you are rethinking your prior statement?

No! Do you think this incident should cause a ban on pulling the slider down the risers?


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 10:25 PM
Post #124 of 175 (992 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license.

In reply to:


So I take it you are rethinking your prior statement?

No! Do you think this incident should cause a ban on pulling the slider down the risers?



LaughLaugh You just keep thinkin' Butch...that's what you're good at. Wink


sacex250

Jan 21, 2012, 10:34 PM
Post #125 of 175 (991 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license.

In reply to:


So I take it you are rethinking your prior statement?

No! Do you think this incident should cause a ban on pulling the slider down the risers?



LaughLaugh You just keep thinkin' Butch...that's what you're good at. Wink

Okay, does this one verifiable incident justify banning C-License holders from using cameras?

Does it justify requiring camera flyers to use an RSL?

Don't worry, just leave the thinking to me.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 10:37 PM
Post #126 of 175 (1110 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't worry, just leave the thinking to me.

In reply to:





Will do...you just leave the skydiving to skydivers. WinkCool


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Jan 21, 2012, 11:25 PM)


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 21, 2012, 11:20 PM
Post #127 of 175 (1104 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Don't worry, just leave the thinking to me.


Will do...you just leave the skydiving to skydivers. WinkCool

WOOooooooo, around the world and slap back.. girlfriend..


taylor.freefall  (A 52570)

Jan 21, 2012, 11:54 PM
Post #128 of 175 (1097 views)
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Re: [skybytch] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The bottom line is there needs to be an "industry standard" - only for the sole purpose of solving these ridiculous (self righteous) arguments about "who should" and "who.. should not"!

USPA's "recommendations", combined with applicable FAR's, already are the "industry standard" for skydiving in the US.

Well industry standard was meant more as a
"legal" requirement than a recommendation.
Recommendations are worthless - you know that people can get around that no problem. A legal requirement not so much.
Surely there can be a way of new jumpers getting in to camera that can satisfy all of us? And wouldn't that be through doing a short camera course?
It sure would make way more sense for us all to "try" and agree to something rather than argue over every little detail - there has to be a "middle ground".
Newly licensed jumpers are bound to want to jump camera as they're excited about their new hobby and want to share/document it as much as possible (totally understandable) - yet at the same time they don't want to piss off other jumpers by making skydiving more dangerous than it already is (totally understandable).
I don't know, nor have ever met, and don't want to kiss the ass of DSE, but he certainly seems to be the forwarding person when it comes to skydiving, and I am certainly (after this thread) going to write to USPA and recommend a requirement for jumping camera - then there can be absolutely no arguing (if they agree to it, of course).


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 22, 2012, 1:46 AM
Post #129 of 175 (1078 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well industry standard was meant more as a
"legal" requirement than a recommendation.
That's not correct. "Industry standard" was developed through research and development AND trial and error. It was "meant" to help keep us as safe as possible.

In reply to:
Recommendations are worthless - you know that people can get around that no problem. A legal requirement not so much.
People can get around either...if they want to.
Recommendations are worthless only to those who choose to ignore them.

In reply to:
Surely there can be a way of new jumpers getting in to camera that can satisfy all of us? And wouldn't that be through doing a short camera course?
We already have a way for getting into camera jumping. It's right there in the USPA recommendations. Your point must hinge on the "satisfy all of us" part of your statement.

You must realize that we are not attempting to "satisfy" anyone with all those recommendations. It's all about safety...not anyone's personal satisfaction. Some will not be "satisfied" with skydiving safely. Hence all the arguments about ignoring the recommendations.

Personally, if they choose to ignore safety common sense, I do not want to be in the sky with them. They may wind up hurting me right along side of themselves.


In reply to:
It sure would make way more sense for us all to "try" and agree to something rather than argue over every little detail - there has to be a "middle ground".
True enough! And there already IS a middle ground...USPA recommendations! It's funny how those that choose to ignore safety common sense are the ones arguing...against it.
Or, to put it another way, those that are arguing against USPA recommendations are the ones that are choosing to ignore safety common sense.


In reply to:
Newly licensed jumpers are bound to want to jump camera as they're excited about their new hobby and want to share/document it as much as possible (totally understandable) - yet at the same time they don't want to piss off other jumpers by making skydiving more dangerous than it already is (totally understandable).

Yes! New jumpers ARE excited and excitable.

However, if they are thinking that the only reason they do not want to make skydiving more dangerous is because they don't want to piss off other jumpers, they are missing the point entirely.

If young jumpers are making skydiving more dangerous than it already is, they have more to worry about than pissing off other jumpers.

Again, the recommendations can, and do, help them progress while maintaining some modicum of safety.

In reply to:
I am certainly (after this thread) going to write to USPA and recommend a requirement for jumping camera - then there can be absolutely no arguing (if they agree to it, of course).

Now THAT'S positive thinking!
I'm sure it's already been discussed and there may or may not be plans in the works to do just that. Best bet is to call them first. Start with your Regional Director.

Then all we have to do is hope that people don't find a way around THAT requirement, too.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Jan 22, 2012, 1:53 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 22, 2012, 5:19 AM
Post #130 of 175 (1059 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You mean DSE's thread of non-fatal incidents of people who obviously have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time trying to blame a camera for their own stupidity.

I'm gald you mentioned this aspect.

Consider that all of the jumpers in DSE's thread were licensed jumpers. Every one of them was smart enough to get through AFF and earn (at a min.) an A license. However, each one of them was not smart enough to jump a GoPro without incident (or not smart enough to realize the limitations of their experience at the time of the incident). What this tells us is that being smart enough to earn an A license is not the same as being smart emough to jump a camera, or smart enough to have good judgement with regards as to went to start jumping a camera.

With this in mind, why would you support a regulatory environment where it's OK for anyone with an A licesne to jump a camera?

Beyond that, let me ask you another question, what benefit does it bring to the community to allow newbies to jump cameras? What would the reason be for allowing something to occur that the most experienced camera flyers in the sport feel is inappropriate?

Let's keep in mind a few thoughts about the BOD, with the first one being that not all of them are camera flyers, have camera flying experience, and some of them don't even jump anymore. While they are the jumpers with the time and money to donate towards being on the BOD, it does not mean that they are the be-all, end-all, experts on all aspects of the sport.

The other thought about the BOD is that their actions are not always 'pure'. I'm not suggesting corruption or self-interest, what I'm suggesting is that they have a limited amount of time and resources, and that creating a BSR isn't fast or easy. As we have seen in the past, the BOD has gotten themselves into a legal jam or two, and they end up costing the USPA countless dollars (countless because the out-of-court settlements are always sealed). The end result of that it they have to play their actions vey carefully, espcailly when wording regulations that may very well become part of a lawsuit.

Pointing to the actions or position of the BOD is not an effective argument against this. In a 'perfect world', the BOD would act very differently on a number of issues, but seeing as this is far from a 'perfect world' you get what we have now.

Overall, I think the biggets mistake you're making is not deffering to the experts. Experience is everything, and those 'in the know' seem to frown upon the idea that a small-format camera makes it OK for an 'anything goes' policy with regards to who can jump them. If there's one thing I learned from skydiving that I apply to my non-jumping life, it's to 'know your role'. In some instances, I am the expert, and the best man for the job. In other instances, there are more qualified candidates for whatever the job may be, and my best contribution to the success of the project is to support those people getting the job done.


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 22, 2012, 5:32 AM
Post #131 of 175 (1055 views)
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In reply to:
Don't worry, just leave the thinking to me.

In reply to:





Will do...you just leave the skydiving to skydivers. WinkCool

LaughLaughLaugh


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 22, 2012, 5:47 AM
Post #132 of 175 (1047 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Holy Sangi-Sh*t...Unsure I may be naive, but it's amazing to me that someone could be so foolish. W/all the information that's readily available on this site. How can you possibly be so dense???

Think you're ten feet tall & bullet proof? Think all the old hands are just overly conservative Wimps? I strongly urge you to test your superiority by reaching out to this guy: http://www.dropzone.com/....cgi?username=Sangi; He has plenty of time to answer your PMs. Almost four months after hammering in, he still can't walk or even feel his legs. We remain hopeful that one day he will walk again. If you don't reach out to him, & have an honest exchange of ideas? You're an absolute idiot, & already crippled or dead. Please at least have the decency to only kill yourself when you pound in.

Edit to add: Why not? I'll even make it easier for you. Read this thread from beginning to end: http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Sound familiar???


(This post was edited by PiLFy on Jan 22, 2012, 8:15 AM)


Skyper

Jan 22, 2012, 5:57 AM
Post #133 of 175 (1044 views)
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Re: [taylor.freefall] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

it's interesting how the need for showing off can suppress the need for survival...

I don't know what kind of "research" have you been doing, but only few months ago at Hollister a woman was killed by the cam. Of course you'll say it was not a cam it was a low turn... The fact was she got a cam on her head and less than 200 formation jumps.

If everything goes fine you can even mount a Santa on your helmet and jump with it. But when the s* hits the fan and you have to ACT on it - you'll face a deadly situation you've never been dreamed of... there you'll go with your Santa and your FB-friends eager to see your cool video.


skydivecat  (C License)

Jan 22, 2012, 7:51 AM
Post #134 of 175 (1013 views)
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Re: [davelepka] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Well put. I'm a noob with no experience, and I have a hard time with a lot of the arguments here. Do I think it would be cool to jump with a camera and have more videos of my jumps, absolutely! Do I want to learn to free fly and do a bunch of other crazy things, hell yeah! Am I ready for all that?

According to the guys who took me thru AFF and taught me how to fly, NO. And their opinion on that matters way more to me than doing what I think would be fun. They tell me to work more on this or that first, that is what I am going to do. They aren't trying to hold me back, THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE ME BETTER. My opinion ceases to matter compared to theirs in skydiving related things. Even if you DO have mad skills and are way above the rest LISTEN to the people who brought safely to where you are at. Skydiving doesn't have a very forgiving margin for error, so even if they are being conservative with their advice, they are simply trying to save your life.


sacex250

Jan 22, 2012, 8:23 AM
Post #135 of 175 (994 views)
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Re: [Skyper] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it's interesting how the need for showing off can suppress the need for survival...

I don't know what kind of "research" have you been doing, but only few months ago at Hollister a woman was killed by the cam. Of course you'll say it was not a cam it was a low turn... The fact was she got a cam on her head and less than 200 formation jumps.

If everything goes fine you can even mount a Santa on your helmet and jump with it. But when the s* hits the fan and you have to ACT on it - you'll face a deadly situation you've never been dreamed of... there you'll go with your Santa and your FB-friends eager to see your cool video.

The incident at Hollister last year was not a fatality, and didn't have anything to do with the camera.

The fatality was a different jumper three years ago, also didn't have anything to do with a camera.


sacex250

Jan 22, 2012, 8:40 AM
Post #136 of 175 (987 views)
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In reply to:
Holy Sangi-Sh*t...Unsure I may be naive, but it's amazing to me that someone could be so foolish. W/all the information that's readily available on this site. How can you possibly be so dense???

Think you're ten feet tall & bullet proof? Think all the old hands are just overly conservative Wimps? I strongly urge you to test your superiority by reaching out to this guy: http://www.dropzone.com/....cgi?username=Sangi; He has plenty of time to answer your PMs. Almost four months after hammering in, he still can't walk or even feel his legs. We remain hopeful that one day he will walk again. If you don't reach out to him, & have an honest exchange of ideas? You're an absolute idiot, & already crippled or dead. Please at least have the decency to only kill yourself when you pound in.

Edit to add: Why not? I'll even make it easier for you. Read this thread from beginning to end: http://www.dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Sound familiar???

I'm fully aware of the history surrounding Sangi, and if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 22, 2012, 8:45 AM
Post #137 of 175 (982 views)
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In reply to:


LaughLaugh You just keep thinkin' Butch...that's what you're good at. Wink

Okay, does this one verifiable incident justify banning C-License holders from using cameras?

Does it justify requiring camera flyers to use an RSL?

Don't worry, just leave the thinking to me.
@ sacex250... By now, you must be feeling like you're being targeted and picked on. Keep in mind, these are well intentioned, experienced people responding to your post. Maybe you should ask yourself why so many experienced jumpers are on the attack here... Shocked

And by the way, there is a really good way for any Newb to get good video of his/her jump. Just walk up to an experienced camera flyer and ask them along on your next jump. Most will go out of their way to accomodate you. And, the video will be of a quality that you'll be proud to show your friends on FB. Cool


skydiver604

Jan 22, 2012, 8:52 AM
Post #138 of 175 (976 views)
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I'm fully aware of the history surrounding Sangi, and if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two.

There may be no comparison between the two but when a jump goes for shit the end result can be the same or comparable or worse UnsureFrownUnimpressed


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 22, 2012, 8:58 AM
Post #139 of 175 (971 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm fully aware of the history surrounding Sangi, and if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two.

Unsure Well then... I guess this attachment is for you. Do you have a Dauber?


(This post was edited by skyjumpenfool on Jan 22, 2012, 9:09 AM)
Attachments: Bounce_Bingo.gif (29.5 KB)


sacex250

Jan 22, 2012, 9:02 AM
Post #140 of 175 (966 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'm fully aware of the history surrounding Sangi, and if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two.

Unsure Well then... I guess this attachment is for you. Do you have a Dauber?

Oh the irony! Your Bounce Bingo card has crashed!


(This post was edited by sacex250 on Jan 22, 2012, 9:03 AM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Jan 22, 2012, 9:11 AM
Post #141 of 175 (959 views)
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In reply to:
Unsure Well then... I guess this attachment is for you. Do you have a Dauber?

Oh the irony! Your Bounce Bingo card has crashed!
Try again... Cool


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 22, 2012, 9:14 AM
Post #142 of 175 (955 views)
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In reply to:
if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two.

It is equally delusional to ignore the similarities in the thought process that leads you to think they're different.Crazy


PiLFy  (A License)

Jan 22, 2012, 9:32 AM
Post #143 of 175 (936 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

"I'm fully aware of the history surrounding Sangi, and if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two."

You're fully aware that Sangi didn't listen to a mountain of good advice until it was too late. Yet, you're still here talking smack w/the same thick skull & 'tude? I call Bullshit. You're either the Troll you've been accused of being in earlier threads. Or, you really are that stupid. Either way, you're not worth wasting one more minute on. Where do you jump, in Utah? Good, I'm nowhere near you. Go ahead & kill yourself. DO NOT take anyone else w/you.


sacex250

Jan 22, 2012, 9:32 AM
Post #144 of 175 (932 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Unsure Well then... I guess this attachment is for you. Do you have a Dauber?

Oh the irony! Your Bounce Bingo card has crashed!

Try again... Cool
Nope, didn't even come close to dying.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 22, 2012, 9:37 AM
Post #145 of 175 (929 views)
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In reply to:

I'm fully aware of the history surrounding Sangi, and if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two.

Really?
No comparison?

Don't jump a camera too soon, you can do it if everything goes right, but the distraction may keep you from realizing what is happening and if something goes wrong, you may not have the experience to handle it.

Don't downsize too soon, you can do it if everything goes right, but if something goes wrong, you may not have the experience to handle it.

Don't jump a wingsuit too soon, you can do it if everything goes right, but the distraction may prevent you from realizing something is wrong (like your legstraps aren't on) and if something goes wrong, you may not have the experience to handle it.

No comparison, huh??

I always notice the two sides in these arguments. The only ones arguing that the recommendations are too restrictive are those who don't meet them.

"You should let me jump a camera, jump numbers don't really measure how good someone is, even though I don't have the numbers."

Have you ever heard of the phrase "You don't know what you don't know"?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 22, 2012, 9:46 AM
Post #146 of 175 (921 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi
>did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your
>argument is. There's no comparison between the two.

There sure is. They both contain one very important component that is identical in both cases - a skydiver who thinks "I'm shit hot, and all that canopy nazi/camera nazi advice doesn't apply to me. I'm special."

A lot of your arguments could be taken verbatim from Sangi's old threads, just replacing "canopy" with "camera."


sacex250

Jan 22, 2012, 9:48 AM
Post #147 of 175 (919 views)
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In reply to:
"I'm fully aware of the history surrounding Sangi, and if you're somehow under the delusion that rapidly downsizing and swooping as Sangi did compares to wearing a camera then it just goes to show how irrational your argument is. There's no comparison between the two."

You're fully aware that Sangi didn't listen to a mountain of good advice until it was too late. Yet, you're still here talking smack w/the same thick skull & 'tude? I call Bullshit. You're either the Troll you've been accused of being in earlier threads. Or, you really are that stupid. Either way, you're not worth wasting one more minute on. Where do you jump, in Utah? Good, I'm nowhere near you. Go ahead & kill yourself. DO NOT take anyone else w/you.

In case you haven't noticed, and you haven't, I'm the one arguing on behalf of the BSR as written. What I'm arguing against is the mob rule where jumpers have taken a "recommendation" in the BSR and turned it into an absolute restriction to arrogantly harass and ridicule newer jumpers who aren't actually doing anything wrong.


yoink

Jan 22, 2012, 9:49 AM
Post #148 of 175 (917 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Unsure Well then... I guess this attachment is for you. Do you have a Dauber?

Oh the irony! Your Bounce Bingo card has crashed!

Try again... Cool

Nope, didn't even come close to dying.
How about posting your name and DZ so that people can make an informed choice not to jump with you if that's what they want? You can go and be the Skygod, and they can avoid you, problem solved.

Of course, if you're just trolling, or if you know that you wouldn't say half the dumb crap you come out with to peoples faces at your dz, by all means, keep schtum.


The Sangi thread is an exact parallel. Ignore the camera vs canopy bit - it's the attitude of 'I know everything' that makes people draw the conclusion that you're on the same path.
I won the bounce bingo for him - who's going to do it for you, I wonder?


This isn't about harassing newbies - if you're going to come onto a public forum, full of people with far more experience and knowledge than you seem to posess, and then make blanket statements that are plain wrong you can expect to be called on them, because one day some gung-ho newbie may well read your WRONG statements and use them as justification for doing whatever they want...

"Oh - I saw on the internet that there has never been a fatality attributed to small format cameras, so I'll probably be fine putting one on at 50 jumps. My skills are way ahead of the curve."

Then they take out another jumper because they're in over their head without realising it, based on bad information.

That's what it comes down to for me - posts here stick around, and it's amazing what people dig up as justifications for doing stupid shit, and unfortunately for every 1 post saying 'you'll probably be fine' it seems to take about 50 pointing out how dumb it really is to make any impact on the future newbie.

I don't get why you wouldn't put your name on your posts - if you're so certain of your conclusions, and confident in your research...


(This post was edited by yoink on Jan 22, 2012, 12:56 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 22, 2012, 10:04 AM
Post #149 of 175 (910 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>Okay, does this one verifiable incident justify banning C-License holders from using cameras?

No, but these incidents might:

===============
December 17, 2009. 30 jumps. Flew into fence due to camera distractions. Minor injuries.

January 1 2010. Low time jumper; jumps unknown. Landed off due to camera distractions. Minor injuries.

February 2010. Two jumpers, less than 100 jumps each. Collision during opening due to aiming camera at canopy. Minor injuries, equipment damage.

April 19 2010. 200 jumps. Wingsuit AND camera. Flew into side of tent.

June 22, 2010. 200 jumps. Distracted by camera, landed against pattern. Minor injuries.

2010. 133 jumps. Jumper landed safely. Wind came up and she didn't deal with her canopy because she was distracted by her camera. Broken wrist.

July 4, 2010. 112 jumps. Didn't flare due to camera distraction. Likely broken wrists.

Oct 8 2011. 31 jumps. Camera fouled in lines. Sprained wrist.

Nov 6 2011. 110 jumps. AAD fire due to camera distraction. Hard landing on roof.
===============

These, of course, are just the serious incidents/injuries. There's another dozen of cutaways, lost altitude awareness, forgotten chest straps and altimeters, bad spots etc caused by lowtimers with small format cameras.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 22, 2012, 10:18 AM
Post #150 of 175 (898 views)
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>What I'm arguing against is the mob rule where jumpers have taken a
>"recommendation" in the BSR and turned it into an absolute restriction to arrogantly
>harass and ridicule newer jumpers who aren't actually doing anything wrong.

1 friend's funeral avoided is worth 100 Internet newbs who take offense at advice.


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jan 22, 2012, 10:30 AM
Post #151 of 175 (2106 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

The incident at Hollister last year was not a fatality, and didn't have anything to do with the camera.

Really? Last I checked 2011 was last year, and this was a fatality.

http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=4136506

Pay particular attention to post 137.


monkycndo  (D License)

Jan 22, 2012, 10:40 AM
Post #152 of 175 (2102 views)
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In reply to:

The incident at Hollister last year was not a fatality, and didn't have anything to do with the camera.

The fatality was a different jumper three years ago, also didn't have anything to do with a camera.

You sir, are still sadly mistaken. The FATALITY last year was a jumper that was told it was OK to jump camera at less than 200 jumps. She had around 150. She was filming a tandem and it appears she wanted to make it back to get the landing shot even though it was a long spot.

She was just able to clear the power lines at the edge of the field and hooked it in to land into the wind. So riddle me this. Was it the fact she was under a canopy way beyond her skill set that caused the incident, or the pressure to get the shot that led to her death? I say both. Take away either, and there was a better chance she would still be amongst the living. She didn't have the time in sport to understand that the advice she was given could have such fatal consequences.

But if the DZO said it was OK, she must have had the skills, training and supervision to bolt a camera on her head and be filming a tandem. What could possibly go wrong?

Whether it be a guideline or written in the blood of those that didn't follow the guideline, she is still dead.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 22, 2012, 11:19 AM
Post #153 of 175 (2078 views)
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Re: [monkycndo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Listen monky, we've been down this path with sacex250 before, on several other issues.

Great at spouting 'researched' facts & figures, the conclusions drawn are obviously done so without the benefit of actual experience in the field.

My only hope is that someone who is actually wanting to learn doesn't take this 'advise' as valid or use the flawed conclusions as reasons or justification to do things not actually in the best interest of their survival.

Be real here...some of the BEST instructors and vidiots around, are arguing with this guy like anything he has to say MEANS anything! Crazy

The ole saying ~ Doesn't even know what he doesn't know...~ has never been more appropriately applied.

The worse part is when clearly shown to be incorrect in the conclusions drawn, sacex250 will continue to stand behind the bad science...only further showing a total lack of practical application skills.

This isn't the Beer! thread that this bullshit has gone on...Unimpressed


What we have is a well spoken 'armchair expert' that will disclose all kinds of information EXCEPT that which pertains to his experience level as in jump numbers, instructional ratings, home DZ...anything.

So until such time as he wishes to explain how his real world history qualifies him to make such judgements...

I'll continue to smile and say 'that's nice'...and hope any REAL skydivers take his opinions with less than the grain of salt they have shown to be worth.


sacex250

Jan 22, 2012, 11:19 AM
Post #154 of 175 (2079 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:

The incident at Hollister last year was not a fatality, and didn't have anything to do with the camera.

Really? Last I checked 2011 was last year, and this was a fatality.

http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=4136506

Pay particular attention to post 137.

Alright, you got me there. All I remembered was the broken legs and facial trauma. I still stand by the point that it wasn't the camera that caused the accident.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 22, 2012, 11:42 AM
Post #155 of 175 (2065 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

The incident at Hollister last year was not a fatality, and didn't have anything to do with the camera.

Really? Last I checked 2011 was last year, and this was a fatality.

http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=4136506

Pay particular attention to post 137.

Alright, you got me there. All I remembered was the broken legs and facial trauma. I still stand by the point that it wasn't the camera that caused the accident.


Like I said one post above yours~ Unimpressed

The worse part is when clearly shown to be incorrect in the conclusions drawn, sacex250 will continue to stand behind the bad science...only further showing a total lack of practical application skills.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 22, 2012, 12:15 PM
Post #156 of 175 (2048 views)
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In reply to:

Alright, you got me there. All I remembered was the broken legs and facial trauma. I still stand by the point that it wasn't the camera that caused the accident.

You're completely right.
-The camera didn't pull low.
-The camera didn't control the canopy flight.
-The camera didn't make the bad decision to be there.

It keeps coming back to the person who inserted the camera into the chain.
Some people think they're smarter than the average person. Some of them actually are. I'd submit that a few of those in the small-format list are very heads-up and experienced, yet they got caught out.
We see the incident lists filled with people that think they are more capable, but clearly aren't.

The sad thing is that no matter how much talking, whether from a "you're a dumbass" or "how about looking at this differently" position, some people will never learn, all the while ignorant that they're also putting others lives and property at greater risk.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jan 22, 2012, 1:05 PM
Post #157 of 175 (2024 views)
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[reply
Like I said one post above yours~ Unimpressed

The worse part is when clearly shown to be incorrect in the conclusions drawn, sacex250 will continue to stand behind the bad science...only further showing a total lack of practical application skills.
He is another that deserves my well-placed:
*WHOOSH*

Time to end the thread.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jan 22, 2012, 1:50 PM
Post #158 of 175 (2001 views)
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In reply to:
[reply
Like I said one post above yours~ Unimpressed

The worse part is when clearly shown to be incorrect in the conclusions drawn, sacex250 will continue to stand behind the bad science...only further showing a total lack of practical application skills.

He is another that deserves my well-placed:
*WHOOSH*

Time to end the thread.
Not yet! I have to place my bingo bet! Who is holding the Chart?

Matt


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 22, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #159 of 175 (1964 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

It was a few posts back...


wildWilly  (B License)

Jan 22, 2012, 3:58 PM
Post #160 of 175 (1950 views)
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Re: [DSE] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Alright, you got me there. All I remembered was the broken legs and facial trauma. I still stand by the point that it wasn't the camera that caused the accident.

You're completely right.
-The camera didn't pull low.
-The camera didn't control the canopy flight.
-The camera didn't make the bad decision to be there.

It keeps coming back to the person who inserted the camera into the chain.
Some people think they're smarter than the average person. Some of them actually are. I'd submit that a few of those in the small-format list are very heads-up and experienced, yet they got caught out.
We see the incident lists filled with people that think they are more capable, but clearly aren't.

The sad thing is that no matter how much talking, whether from a "you're a dumbass" or "how about looking at this differently" position, some people will never learn, all the while ignorant that they're also putting others lives and property at greater risk.

I think Brian Germain said it best in "Parachute and it's Pilot" that "IPA or Incredible Physical Agony"is the best teacher for people who think they have Mad Skilz and start writing checks their Skilz can't cash. Whether it is downsizing and swooping too aggressively or strapping on a camera too soon, you don't know what you don't know.
It takes a long time and a lot of LISTENING to people with more experience than you to acquire the skilz. As soon as you say "I have all the skilz I need to do this" you are closing the door to knowledge that WILL save your life.
Don't be THAT GUY
Good luck, I think you'll need it,

Willy


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jan 22, 2012, 6:50 PM
Post #161 of 175 (1925 views)
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"Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm wondering are these/ this DZ making any extra money or charging extra for the cams on these jumps?

I could see that "Hey, for only $20 more, we can put a camera on your helmet and you can show your friends the video". Student doesn't understand the risks and the DZ makes a profit.

I could definitely see that happening.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jan 22, 2012, 7:09 PM
Post #162 of 175 (1918 views)
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Quote:
The sad thing is that no matter how much talking, whether from a "you're a dumbass" or "how about looking at this differently" position, some people will never learn, all the while ignorant that they're also putting others lives and property at greater risk.


Ever notice that everything sacex250 posts is based on info that as previously been posted on DZ.com, or 'research' he's done elsewhere online? It occurs to me that I've never read anything from him along the lines of, 'I have done xxx before, and yyy happened....', or, 'At my DZ we tend to do 123, but I've visted a DZ where they do 456'.

Just about every other poster, even the ones with 2 jumps will sooner or later reference their actual experience or situation, or comment on a brand of container, canopy, jumpsuit, helmet or altimeter. Well, every other poster that has actual jumping experience, that is.

In the end, this video should really be the begining and end of the discussion on the danger of cameras. Two jumps, both with 500-1000 jumps at the time of the incident, with at least 100 jumps freeflying together. The only difference in this video is the addition of a camera to one of the jumpers. This was many years ago, when mini-DV was first out, and they were stoked to have POV video of one of their jumps. Both of these jumpers were respected in the local community (Perris and Elsinore) at the time as experienced and skilled jumpers.

They got so wrapped up with one filming and the other being filmed, they flew head down into dual cypres fires. The camera flyer came darn close to getting a very large bird feeder up his ass.

Remember, 500-1000 jumps, respected by the locals...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoer1LmWTL4


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 22, 2012, 9:50 PM
Post #163 of 175 (1879 views)
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Re: [davelepka] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>Remember, 500-1000 jumps, respected by the locals...
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoer1LmWTL4

Yeah, but that was back then. 200 jump wonders are so much more skilled today. What are you, one of those old dinosaurs who doesn't understand that time has passed them by?


Krip  (Student)

Jan 23, 2012, 1:12 AM
Post #164 of 175 (1863 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Could you be a little more specific about all of these extensive problems due to people not following the recommendations in the SIM?
Do your own research. It's a great way to learn.
I'd suggest starting with camera flying, looking into wing suiting, moving on the high-performance landings and really getting deep into emergency procedures. You may discover extensive problems caused by not knowing and/or ignoring that information in the SIM.

You could short-cut a little by researching DZ.com threads. Incident forum would get you started.

I've done the research, and there is not one verifiable incident that justifies an arbitrary banning of small format cameras by jumpers with less than a C-license. By comparison, a B-License holder can be trained to be a coach to another jumper but is regarded as unqualified to jump with a camera.

In reply to:
What do you think those recommendations really mean and what are they for? Do you know how those recommendations came about?
The recommendation wasn't written with small format cameras used by jumpers for their personal POV recordings of their own jumps in mind; it was written with professional camera flyers using larger, heavier equipment in mind in which the main purpose of the jump would be to photograph or record other jumpers.

The requirement of a C-License to add a camera to a jump the jumper would be doing anyway is extreme, which is best evidenced by the fact that everybody misquotes the recommendation as merely 200 jumps because that sounds more reasonable.

These are the facts:

-- There is no BSR or FAA regulation that requires a C-License or 200 jumps to jump with a camera.

-- There has not been one fatality by a skydiver using a small format camera that was caused by the camera.


It's not accidents, fatalities, or injuries that's fueling this debate - it's "oh, the horror" someone posted a video on their Facebook page!

How long you been jumping?

Where you getting your info from that only one umper went in caused by a small format camera. The umper with the cameera decides when to open not the camera.

My 150 ' opening was partially cuaused by a hand held camera everyone likes to geek the camera. What would have happened to the dude at the ranch that landed on the roof if he didn't have a aad.

Good news he would have missed the roofSmile bad news he would have bouncedFrown

Of course whathever do whatever floats your boatSmile

You want to learrn the hard waySmile Don't mean nothing to me. When I was jumping I've walked around bodies on the way to the plane. The DZ isn't going to shut down ops until they remove you sorry ass in a body bag.

You momma papa wife kids friends they night miss you Me MEH. Thats reality

Do I hate you no? Do I like you no. will I miss you no. "It don't mean nothing". Just another dumbass that wants to argue.

R/


f94sbu  (D 16017)

Jan 23, 2012, 3:21 AM
Post #165 of 175 (1849 views)
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Re: [sacex250] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for taking the time to read through the report. A lot can be learned from it. However, your translation contains several factual errors (no offense, you admitted that you don't know Swedish. I just don't want these errors to stick in this thread.)

* The report does not talk about a spiraling turn causing a line twist. It describes how the jumper flies his canopy actively (several radical turns) but then stops turning and files the canopy in deep breaks. This is corroborated by the graphs that indicate that the decent rate suddenly decreases. This is also corroborated by eye-witnesses that confirm that the jumper had a habit of spinning for a while and then fly his canopy in deep breaks. What happens after the flight in deep breaks is unknown, but the report puts forward a theory that the jumper induces a stall/stall-turn when he is flying in deep breaks which causes the canopy to spin up. At this point, it is likely that the risers, or something else gets caught around his GoPro.

* The report never talks about the slider the way you describe. The report only talks about the collapsed slider as a sign that the jumper was flying his canopy actively. Had he had a malfunction from his initial opening, there would be no reason for him to collapse his slider and bring it down behind his neck. THAT is the only mentioning of the slider, nowhere does the report indicate that the slider got caught in the GoPro, that is your theory. Nowhere does report present any theory that the slider probably disoriented the jumper.

* You missed the important fact that the jumper had injuries in his face that were not caused by the impact. During the cutaway (probably) something hit the jumpers face hard from below. He also had serious injuries in his neck where his head had been torn upwards and to the side. The MD that did the investigation states that it might have incapacitated him temporarily. This is why I made the note about the GoPro mount acting as a very efficient hook. Something that older camera mounts usually tries to avoid.

As you pointed out yourself, that the jumper did everything correctly (not exactly as he would be alive if he did) and met all the recommendations, what do you think should be done to prevent accidents such as this?
Do you see that putting a jump number limit is a way of ensuring that the jumpers have deposited as much experience in their bank account as possible for when they need it? Jump numbers is a very blunt way of ensuring that, but it is simply not possible to set up guidelines for every single stupidity someone can come up with.

When people complain to me that "It is going to take me forever to get 200 jumps so that I can jump with a camera", I tell them: "Making 200 skydives doesn't take very long if you are serious about it. Make 200 jumps where you each jump think about things that might be useful to know for the day that you put on a camera." People usually come back to thank me after 200 jumps.

regards,
Stefan
(S&TA Skydive Stockholm)


3mpire  (C 39657)

Jan 23, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #166 of 175 (1783 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Not for Static-Liners.

SL Instructor to Student: So as you can see from the expression on my face, you didn't do so good. Repeat! Sly


Krip  (Student)

Jan 23, 2012, 9:35 AM
Post #167 of 175 (1767 views)
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Re: [missbrz] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That's what I figured you would see. But wouldn't a more effective video be from mounting the camera to the instructor's chest strap? Then you could actually see body position of the student. I dont see how seeing what's in front of the student would help the student from an instructional stand point or how that would be a good video for posterity even...

WAG The student wants to get ready to video tamdems. & Charge extra for video when they get to be a 100 jump coach. CrazyFrown


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 23, 2012, 2:07 PM
Post #168 of 175 (1717 views)
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Re: [Krip] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Kids today have it EASY!Laugh
Attachments: go-PRO-baby.jpg (52.1 KB)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 23, 2012, 2:58 PM
Post #169 of 175 (1699 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

>Kids today have it EASY!

Now bolt that thing to the helmet, add a wingsuit and switch to a 10' Navy conical and you'd have a shot at being a cool kid.


yoink

Jan 24, 2012, 10:19 AM
Post #170 of 175 (1588 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Kids today have it EASY!Laugh

I LOVE that pic! Cool


Melissa126  (D 33235)

Aug 23, 2012, 11:27 AM
Post #171 of 175 (1295 views)
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Re: [ntrprnr] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/...l__-19U1YMk&NR=1


....came across this, and it scared me... I did a search and don't believe it was posted before...


Squeak  (E 1313)

Aug 23, 2012, 5:45 PM
Post #172 of 175 (1220 views)
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Re: [Melissa126] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.youtube.com/...l__-19U1YMk&NR=1


....came across this, and it scared me... I did a search and don't believe it was posted before...

FFS the mind just bogglesCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazy


jinlee  (D License)

Aug 23, 2012, 6:27 PM
Post #173 of 175 (1195 views)
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Re: [Melissa126] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
http://www.youtube.com/...l__-19U1YMk&NR=1


....came across this, and it scared me... I did a search and don't believe it was posted before...

Thats a really good video, surprised how young everyone looks.




gearless_chris  (D 29012)

Jun 4, 2013, 2:42 PM
Post #175 of 175 (480 views)
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Re: [Melissa126] "Check out my GoPro footage of my first solo!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Melissa126 wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/...l__-19U1YMk&NR=1


....came across this, and it scared me... I did a search and don't believe it was posted before...

It was a while back in another thread.

It reminded me of a lot of the youngster freefly videos with 9 GoPros on 6 jumpers, for multiple camera angles of black dots way off in the distance, with the occasional collision.



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