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Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree.

 

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hchunter614  (B 30368)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:04 PM
Post #51 of 83 (1349 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to see this in this forum and not the incidents Kelly.

Curtis


missbrz  (B License)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:13 PM
Post #52 of 83 (1344 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
did the cutter cut the loop, my guess is no.

Nope. My closing loop was not cut.

Then I'm slightly confused. From what I understand, that would mean it was NOT a Cypres fire. Am I correct in that? Or can a Cypres fire w/o cutting the loop?


(not specifically asking for an answer from the OP just happen to be using her quote so I can learn)


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:18 PM
Post #53 of 83 (1337 views)
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Re: [missbrz] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Or can a Cypres fire w/o cutting the loop?

Under a very narrow set of circumstances, yes. On my rig, the cutter is located directly under the reserve flap very close to the reserve pin. If the reserve pin is pulled and the loop is pulled through the cutter and there's still enough airspeed to cause the AAD to activate then the CYPRES will have fired without cutting the loop. That's completely normal... just pretty hard timing.

Some containers have the cutter mounted at the base of the closing loop. In that case, it's hard (impossible?) to tell if the reserve pin was pulled before or after the CYPRES fire. Make sense?


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:19 PM
Post #54 of 83 (1337 views)
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Re: [missbrz] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Then I'm slightly confused. From what I understand, that would mean it was NOT a Cypres fire. Am I correct in that?

Depends on the rig. In some brands the cutter is at the base of the loop so when the reserve is out, the loop is still in the cutter. In other rigs, the cutter is on one of the flaps, so the flap moves off the loop when the pilot chute jumps out or the freebag is pulled out. Then the cutter would close and cut nothing. Have a rigger show you some day if you can, to understand the internal parts of rigs better.


monkycndo  (D License)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:19 PM
Post #55 of 83 (1337 views)
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Re: [missbrz] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

If the cutter is above the freebag, once the reserve is out of the container, the cutter is off the loop. The cutter will fire, but the loop will be intact.


mirage62  (C 15580)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:26 PM
Post #56 of 83 (1331 views)
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Re: [missbrz] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

What she is saying (I believe) is that she "Beat the cypress" pulling after it had started it's count down but the cypress didn't cut the loop(?). So she in effect "saved herself".

For myself it didn't matter one bit if I beat it or not, it did activate and thats to fucking low.

But other thoughts on that may vary.


missbrz  (B License)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:28 PM
Post #57 of 83 (1329 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Then I'm slightly confused. From what I understand, that would mean it was NOT a Cypres fire. Am I correct in that?

Depends on the rig. In some brands the cutter is at the base of the loop so when the reserve is out, the loop is still in the cutter. In other rigs, the cutter is on one of the flaps, so the flap moves off the loop when the pilot chute jumps out or the freebag is pulled out. Then the cutter would close and cut nothing. Have a rigger show you some day if you can, to understand the internal parts of rigs better.

ah gotcha. Everybody's response makes sense. I'll try to find a way to see the difference.

Is it the same for Vigils as well?


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:28 PM
Post #58 of 83 (1327 views)
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Re: [mirage62] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
For myself it didn't matter one bit if I beat it or not, it did activate and thats to fucking low.

I'm just trying to drag one little scrap of dignity out of all the other incredibly stupid things I did. Unsure


InfiniteSky  (B 33221)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:42 PM
Post #59 of 83 (1312 views)
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Re: [missbrz] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
ah gotcha. Everybody's response makes sense. I'll try to find a way to see the difference.

Is it the same for Vigils as well?

Yes. The brand of AAD doesn't matter in this situation. What matters is the location of the cutter.


(This post was edited by InfiniteSky on Jan 3, 2012, 12:44 PM)


missbrz  (B License)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:45 PM
Post #60 of 83 (1305 views)
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Re: [InfiniteSky] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
ah gotcha. Everybody's response makes sense. I'll try to find a way to see the difference.

Is it the same for Vigils as well?

Yes. The brand of AAD doesn't matter in this situation. What matters is the location of the cutter.

Gotcha. Thanks for the knowledge everyone Smile


monkycndo  (D License)

Jan 3, 2012, 12:49 PM
Post #61 of 83 (1296 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm just trying to drag one little scrap of dignity out of all the other incredibly stupid things I did. Unsure

Kelly, I spooked my Cypres at jump 58. Ended up landing with two out. That was an expensive jump counting the repack and replacement cutter. But it was invaluable considering the lessons learned and I can guarantee you that it has made me a more aware skydiver because of it. Props to you for posting it on here and taking all the well meaning ribbing, the jabs, and the unwarranted stupid shit slinging so that others might learn from your experience. And yes, that ground gets real big, real fast when you are dirty low.


d123  (B 6134)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:10 PM
Post #62 of 83 (1263 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

dude, I really like your ideas. Stay youself.


hookitt  (D License)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:38 PM
Post #63 of 83 (1251 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
For myself it didn't matter one bit if I beat it or not, it did activate and thats to fucking low.

I'm just trying to drag one little scrap of dignity out of all the other incredibly stupid things I did. Unsure

It was high enough. It may have sucked, but you were still high enough. You'd have been lower if the AAD was what put you under canopy. You got what you needed out of this experience, just move forward.

Good luck. It was kind of you to share this.


Divalent  (C 40494)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:47 PM
Post #64 of 83 (1244 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm just trying to drag one little scrap of dignity out of all the other incredibly stupid things I did. Unsure
Great save on the reserve closing loop! Sly


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 3, 2012, 2:53 PM
Post #65 of 83 (1238 views)
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Re: [Divalent] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Hahaha! Thanks. Those are expensive.


DaVinciflies

Jan 3, 2012, 2:56 PM
Post #66 of 83 (1234 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm just trying to drag one little scrap of dignity out of all the other incredibly stupid things I did. Unsure

Swallowing your pride and posting here so that others might benefit from the learning experienced is a very dignified thing to do.

Glad you're ok. That video scared me.


Austintxflight

Jan 3, 2012, 3:01 PM
Post #67 of 83 (1223 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

You can clearly see right at the 28 second mark the cutaway handle in your hand, but to the larger point. I don't really see the problem with this video, you set yourself up for a perfect swoop, you just didn't finish it.

But serious congrats on the save.

Plus you are now the new inspiration for the audioslave song "Cochiese"


(This post was edited by Austintxflight on Jan 3, 2012, 3:11 PM)


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Jan 3, 2012, 4:59 PM
Post #68 of 83 (1178 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Way to go get'n the chain of events to sway back in your favor to survive. Having issues with each deployment handle sheesh! Sounds like you used 2 of your 3 options in getting a parachute to deploy in time. Your dignity should still be in tact. I had a high speed mal before jumping a freefly unfriendly rig, time went by fast in a slow motion sort of way. The odds were stacking against me quick, one deadly surprise after another wasting time. Was not as easy as look reach pull. I fought and won the battle like you. Humbling, for sure. Could've done things differently, so I learned even more. Things were different in a good way the jumps thereafter. Hope yours are too.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jan 4, 2012, 5:35 AM
Post #69 of 83 (1125 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thank you for posting this, for it reinforces one of the most basic rules of keeping yourself alive on a skydive: "Once, twice; go to silver".

I'll add that your emergency is also yet another a good advertisement for jumping an AAD, even on "lower-risk" jumps. You didn't get knocked out from an impact; you didn't get G-LOC from a flat spin; you didn't have a heart attack or a seizure; you didn't just "lose altitude awareness"; your hard pull wasn't gear-related; you're young and healthy - and yet a cascade of factors led to you taking it really low. Fortunately you found your floating reserve handle, but what if you hadn't? In the pre-AAD days (which I lived through; I also survived a [gear-related] total mal when I was 19 and in great shape) "going in with no handles pulled", without apparent cause or explanation, was a lot more common than it is today. AADs (and, to a lesser extent, audibles and higher pull altitudes) are the reason why.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jan 4, 2012, 5:41 AM
Post #70 of 83 (1122 views)
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Re: [missbrz] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Then I'm slightly confused. From what I understand, that would mean it was NOT a Cypres fire. Am I correct in that?

Depends on the rig. In some brands the cutter is at the base of the loop so when the reserve is out, the loop is still in the cutter. In other rigs, the cutter is on one of the flaps, so the flap moves off the loop when the pilot chute jumps out or the freebag is pulled out. Then the cutter would close and cut nothing. Have a rigger show you some day if you can, to understand the internal parts of rigs better.

ah gotcha. Everybody's response makes sense. I'll try to find a way to see the difference.

Is it the same for Vigils as well?

Remind me to show you all of this when you come pick up your rig tonight. I'll show you exactly what happened. Maybe I'll even pop mine so I can show you where the cutter on the V3 (like she has) is and how it could happen.


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 4, 2012, 6:55 PM
Post #71 of 83 (1054 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'll add that your emergency is also yet another a good advertisement for jumping an AAD, even on "lower-risk" jumps. You didn't get knocked out from an impact; you didn't get G-LOC from a flat spin; you didn't have a heart attack or a seizure; you didn't just "lose altitude awareness"; your hard pull wasn't gear-related; you're young and healthy - and yet a cascade of factors led to you taking it really low.

This is one of the most astute things I've taken away from this experience, Andy. I feel that I'm a reasonably capable and competent person. Certainly not a young, fit athlete, but capable enough.

I've taught hundreds of students to try twice and go to silver. I'll give myself a pass for trying 3 times because I started out pretty high... But the attempt to shift my rig was completely unplanned. I'd never considered doing such a thing and I'd have told anyone who suggested trying it that low that they were a fool.

And yet there I was, CYPRES aside, about 4 seconds from cratering in with nothing out for no reason at all. No reason.


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jan 5, 2012, 6:34 AM
Post #72 of 83 (1004 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I'll add that your emergency is also yet another a good advertisement for jumping an AAD, even on "lower-risk" jumps. You didn't get knocked out from an impact; you didn't get G-LOC from a flat spin; you didn't have a heart attack or a seizure; you didn't just "lose altitude awareness"; your hard pull wasn't gear-related; you're young and healthy - and yet a cascade of factors led to you taking it really low.

This is one of the most astute things I've taken away from this experience, Andy. I feel that I'm a reasonably capable and competent person. Certainly not a young, fit athlete, but capable enough.

I've taught hundreds of students to try twice and go to silver. I'll give myself a pass for trying 3 times because I started out pretty high... But the attempt to shift my rig was completely unplanned. I'd never considered doing such a thing and I'd have told anyone who suggested trying it that low that they were a fool.

And yet there I was, CYPRES aside, about 4 seconds from cratering in with nothing out for no reason at all. No reason.
I'd say you SHOULDN'T take a pass on the "try 2, go to silver". If you had followed this you'd been in the saddle plenty high. The rules we teach to students aren't just for students.
I also learned this with a very low pull.


Kipu  (B License)

Jan 21, 2012, 1:59 AM
Post #73 of 83 (836 views)
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Re: [bodypilot90] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

a few times? That's a horrible place to land. How did that happen?


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Jan 21, 2012, 8:47 AM
Post #74 of 83 (790 views)
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Re: [Kipu] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

One was a reserve ride, one was getting out first, first load of the day. I chose both times to sink it in and had no problems, other than a long walk back. and I had a good tale to tell. heck I waited till my 3rd jump to land at the dz. Tandem landed out and my 1st aff I landed out, that was all my fault. Canopy control is important, You life may depend on it. (it does)


Amazon  (D License)

Jan 21, 2012, 9:35 AM
Post #75 of 83 (780 views)
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Re: [labrys] Low pull + CYPRES fire + near miss with tree. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have a couple of jumps from the NRGB. 800 feet on Bridge Day is definitely not the same visual as 800 feet at terminal. Pirate

I'm not from the area, but it's hard to imaging that much swampy ground doesn't have some gators and snakes living in it.

Dont forget... Swamp Thing is out there too...Sly


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