Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Model's Propeller Accident

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All

Krip  (Student)

Dec 19, 2011, 12:55 AM
Post #51 of 168 (2352 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deisel] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This isn't a skydiving incident but it has happened on a DZ before. Very sad but it's a good reminder about why we still have to teach this stuff to our students, and remind the experienced guys and gals that it can and does happen. Frown


http://gma.yahoo.com/...ident-101317983.html

I read tthe attached report and was impressed by the families positive attitude. Then started to read the comments at the end the first few were similar to the commets made here.

Then I started tp read some comments about folks makng sick jokesabout the incident ShockedShocked. I stoped reading and closed the link.Unsure

Some folks are very strange.Frown

R.


jclalor  (B 33202)

Dec 24, 2011, 5:29 AM
Post #52 of 168 (2252 views)
Shortcut
Re: [normiss] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
Maybe he should have held her hand all the way home?


That's funny.


shah269  (A 59581)

Dec 28, 2011, 7:57 AM
Post #53 of 168 (2179 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jclalor] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't mean to be rude....but...Darwin?
Paging Darwin?
Hi gorgeous that spinning thing in front of the aircraft doesn't care how cute you are....it will kill you if you are lucky!
God. See we need to find all the cute girls in the world and hold them tight so they don't kill themsleves!


davelepka  (D 21448)

Dec 28, 2011, 8:21 AM
Post #54 of 168 (2176 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shah269] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I don't mean to be rude....but...Darwin?
Paging Darwin?
Hi gorgeous that spinning thing in front of the aircraft doesn't care how cute you are....

Well, you failed, and that was rude. There's nothing 'natural' about a spinning prop, especially at night. Implying that she was 'selected' to walk into it based on the theory of evolution is just dumb.

When we reference Darwin in explaining jump accidents, most of the time the victim had been warned or had previous knowledge/training with regards to what eventually 'got' them. In those cases, when someone isn't smart enough to heed the advice/warnings/training provided to them, in that case a snarky 'Darwin' remark isn't entirely inapropriate.

In this case, the young lady was inexperienced around aircraft and presumably had no training as to how to approach a running aircraft. You could say it common sense, but these accidents suggest otherwise. Even in bright daylight, a spinning prop is all but invisible, and at night is that much worse. The general public is not accustomed to being around running machinery with exposed moving parts. Most people are used to cars, which make noise but have all the moving parts safely inside of the body structure. You can safely walk all around a running car, and that's the association most people will make.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Dec 28, 2011, 8:22 AM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Dec 28, 2011, 10:36 AM
Post #55 of 168 (2153 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shah269] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't mean to be rude....but...Darwin?
Paging Darwin?
Hi gorgeous that spinning thing in front of the aircraft doesn't care how cute you are....it will kill you if you are lucky!
God. See we need to find all the cute girls in the world and hold them tight so they don't kill themsleves!

Yes, she walked into a spinning prop, just like many hundreds of pilots have.


shah269  (A 59581)

Dec 28, 2011, 11:26 AM
Post #56 of 168 (2146 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chuckakers] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

OK but look, it's a loud spinning hunk of metal!
Logic dictates one should now walk into LOUD SPINNING HUNKS OF METAL!

Well....I don't know. I do feel bad for her but....I can't help but wonder? Even in the dark you can hear right? So what now? Do DZ's have to install LED lights on the props to keep people from touching them when they are spinning?

I'll be honest with you, when I was doing my AFF jumps the one thing I worried about was sticking my head too far forward on the strut to have it taken off....yeah it's far away (4ft) or so but still...it's still a freaking spinning prop!

Shame too....she was really cute! Unsure
Very few cute girls in the world! We must protect them at all costs!


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Dec 28, 2011, 11:50 AM
Post #57 of 168 (2134 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shah269] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
OK but look, it's a loud spinning hunk of metal!
Logic dictates one should now walk into LOUD SPINNING HUNKS OF METAL!

Well....I don't know. I do feel bad for her but....I can't help but wonder? Even in the dark you can hear right? So what now? Do DZ's have to install LED lights on the props to keep people from touching them when they are spinning?

I'll be honest with you, when I was doing my AFF jumps the one thing I worried about was sticking my head too far forward on the strut to have it taken off....yeah it's far away (4ft) or so but still...it's still a freaking spinning prop!

Shame too....she was really cute! Unsure
Very few cute girls in the world! We must protect them at all costs!

The sound of the prop isn't typically noticed over the sound of the running engine, but that doesn't really matter. In the case of people not familiar with being around planes, the bigger issue is the invisible nature of a spinning prop combined with a lack of knowledge about safety near aircraft.

In this case - as is often the case - the young woman had cleared the aircraft but turned around to thank the pilot for the ride when she was struck. Additionally the accident occurred at night when a prop can be even more invisible.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Dec 28, 2011, 12:47 PM
Post #58 of 168 (2107 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shah269] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

>Logic dictates one should now walk into LOUD SPINNING HUNKS OF METAL!

Invisible loud spinning hunks of metal a few feet away from a deafening engine. They are actually very easy to miss - which is why even pilots walk into them sometimes.

Imagine this test. You are in a dimly lit room. There's an unmuffled F1 engine sitting on the floor, running. You can't even hear yourself think. Someone tells you "there's an invisible blade spinning somewhere in this room - and the room is on fire! You have to get out now!" Would you find such a situation a piece of cake?


shah269  (A 59581)

Dec 28, 2011, 1:12 PM
Post #59 of 168 (2104 views)
Shortcut
Re: [billvon] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh ok now i get it...
No really never thought of the engine being louder than the prop.
Still shame....very cute girl!
Now we will all have to install little LED lights on the ends of the props.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Dec 28, 2011, 1:44 PM
Post #60 of 168 (2084 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shah269] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

>Now we will all have to install little LED lights on the ends of the props.

Won't work in the daytime, unfortunately. And nothing lasts very long on the tips of props.


theonlyski  (D License)

Dec 29, 2011, 7:02 AM
Post #61 of 168 (2047 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shah269] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

The back of propellers are usually painted black so that they're invisible to the pilot when running (so as to not block their view thru them), just FYI.

Maybe some chemiluminescent paint on the front may make them more visible at night, but IMO that's not as much of a problem as unescorted personnel walking around a flight line... (at night none the less)


tbrown  (D 6533)

Dec 30, 2011, 7:07 PM
Post #62 of 168 (1980 views)
Shortcut
Re: [3mpire] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

I once saw a fuelie walk between the fuselage and the prop of a twin otter... while it was running. fuck. that.
I see that all the time at some major California dropzones I will not name. Pilots too, climbing in and out of their cockpit door. Makes me cringe every time because it just has to end badly one of these days. I don't want to be there to see it - or to have to wash the bloodstains off my rig and jumpsuit when it finally does happen.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jan 19, 2012, 9:22 AM
Post #63 of 168 (1870 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deisel] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

Just came across the news by accident -- apparently a preliminary NTSB report on the prop strike is available.

One news source
http://news.yahoo.com/...wYWdlBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3
stated:

Quote:
"Upon noticing that she was exiting in front of the strut, the pilot leaned out of his seat and placed his right hand and arm in front of her to divert her away from the front of the airplane and the propeller," the report states. "He continued to keep his arm extended and told the passenger that she should walk behind the airplane."

When he thought she had walked away behind the plane to safety, the pilot says he "returned to his normal seat position," "looked to the left side of the airplane and opened his window to ask who was next to go for a ride," according to the report.

Edit: The NTSB's language is slightly different:
Quote:
According to the pilot (as he recalls the event), after landing from the planned 20-minute flight, he stopped the airplane on the ramp with the engine running in anticipation of taking another passenger to view the holiday lights. He opened the door on the right side of the airplane expecting a friend to come out and assist his passenger in deplaning. After he opened the door, the passenger started to get out of the airplane. Upon noticing that she was exiting in front of the strut, the pilot leaned out of his seat and placed his right hand and arm in front of her to divert her away from the front of the airplane and the propeller. He continued to keep his arm extended and told the passenger that she should walk behind the airplane. Once he saw that the passenger was at least beyond where the strut was attached to the wing, and walking away, he dropped his right arm and returned to his normal seat position. The pilot then looked to the left side of the airplane and opened his window to ask who was next to go for a ride.


(This post was edited by pchapman on Jan 19, 2012, 9:26 AM)


normiss  (D 28356)

Jan 19, 2012, 9:50 AM
Post #64 of 168 (1847 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pchapman] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

Given one is from an ABC news reporter and the other is from the NTSB and direct investigation by them, I'd say the language difference is minimal. Same even, considering sources.
Tongue


ferrarimv

Jan 19, 2012, 10:04 PM
Post #65 of 168 (1736 views)
Shortcut
Re: [normiss] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

wow...that must suck.
One day ur a model, next day u have limbs gone.

Props scare me...


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jan 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
Post #66 of 168 (1661 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ferrarimv] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
wow...that must suck.
One day ur a model, next day u have limbs gone.

Props scare me...

Yup. An un-guarded 5 foot diameter blade spinning at 1000 RPM (I'm thinking in terms of a 182). The math has the tips moving around 180 miles per hour. Shocked

I've always told the students and observers and anyone not familiar with the plane that "The large spinny thing on the front is not your friend."

Personally, I like to keep everyone out of an arc from wingtip to wingtip, the length of the wing. Think of a circle the size of the wingspan. with the area in front of the wing being the "No Go" area. And it's a No Go area at all times that the airplane is being used, engine running or not.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 21, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #67 of 168 (1644 views)
Shortcut
Re: [wolfriverjoe] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

The model was back on TV this morning. She was on an American news channel, walking out of a rehab facility.
A hat and dark glasses made it impossible to see the extent of her head injuries.

Let's endeavor to prevent this sort of accident on a DZ during 2012.




riddler  (D 10234)

Mar 27, 2012, 3:06 PM
Post #69 of 168 (1439 views)
Shortcut
Re: [riggerrob] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/...y_news/#.T3I5aktAbcY

Quote:
Lauren Scruggs, the model who lost a hand and an eye when she walked into a spinning plane propeller, has reportedly rejected a $200,000 settlement and is suing the plane’s insurance company for an unspecified amount.

The 23-year-old model and fashion blogger from Plano, Texas, has filed court documents in Dallas suing the company insuring the plane owned by defendants Shell Aviation and Michael Shell and piloted by Curt Richmond. On Dec. 3, 2011, Scruggs ended up losing her left eye and had her left hand severed by a spinning propeller when she walked into it after exiting the plane under darkness following a flight to view Christmas lights in the Dallas area.

In her claim, which was first reported by TMZ.com, she states that the insurance company, Aggressive Insurance Services, “verbally offered’’ to pay her $200,000 for the accident. The company claims that it has a maximum limit of $1 million total coverage for each plane, including a $100,000 sublimit for each passenger. Since Richmond was covered by an extra policy extending to other planes he flies, the company offered a $200,000 payout from the combination of the two policies, saying it was the maximum.
However, in court documents, Scruggs disputes her status as a “passenger’’ in the eyes of the insurance company. The policies define a “passenger” as “any person, other than the pilot, who is in the aircraft or getting in or out of it," according to her complaint. Scruggs claims she was not a passenger because “she was not in the aircraft or getting in or out of it at the time of the incident.’’

According to her complaint, Scruggs said “she had completed her exit from the aircraft prior to the time of the incident and was physically located on the tarmac when the incident happened. Until struck by the propeller, she was not in physical contact with the aircraft after her exit."

Scruggs is asking for the court to define whether she was a “passenger’’ or not under the insurance company guidelines. If she is not found to have been a passenger, she can presumably reap a higher payout for the accident.


jumpsalot-2  (D 33093)

Mar 27, 2012, 3:34 PM
Post #70 of 168 (1418 views)
Shortcut
Re: [riddler] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe she should be suing the asphault company who laid the asphault down. She was on the asphault wasn't she ?


sacex250

Mar 27, 2012, 5:33 PM
Post #71 of 168 (1381 views)
Shortcut
Re: [riddler] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

Talk about a matter of semantics.

First of all, she's not suing the insurance company, she's suing the pilot/owner of the airplane who is covered by the insurance company. Of course, when the accident first happened she and her family clearly said that they didn't blame the pilot for the accident.

Second, the claim that she wasn't a passenger is also ridiculous. Insurance companies have tried this tactic also, and lost. One insurance company tried to deny a claim to the family of a scuba diver who drowned because he couldn't climb back onto a dive boat saying that since he wasn't a "passenger" on the boat at the time his death wasn't covered. The insurance company lost on that one.


toolbox  (D 18778)

Mar 27, 2012, 6:11 PM
Post #72 of 168 (1364 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There is nothing' natural' about a spinning prop
In reply to:
There is nothing natural about a speeding train either,but I still know it would be a bad idea to jump in front of one(unless you want to end it all).
And yet people get hit by trains alot,because THEY ARE STUPID!
You can call me an asshole if you want,but walking into a spinning prop is pretty stupid.
As far as all the pilots who walk into spinning props,well you do not have to be a genius to be a pilot,but a crap load of money definitley helps.
Problem is,money can not fix stupid,at least not with present medical technology.


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Mar 27, 2012, 6:35 PM
Post #73 of 168 (1357 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jumpsalot-2] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Maybe she should be suing the asphault company who laid the asphault down. She was on the asphault wasn't she ?

Yeah, but it wasn't their phault.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Mar 27, 2012, 6:51 PM
Post #74 of 168 (1350 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BobMoore] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Maybe she should be suing the asphault company who laid the asphault down. She was on the asphault wasn't she ?

Yeah, but it wasn't their phault.

Damn Bob, that's phuckin' phunny!


Dougiefresh  (Student)

Mar 27, 2012, 7:08 PM
Post #75 of 168 (1343 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BobMoore] Model's Propeller Accident [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Maybe she should be suing the asphault company who laid the asphault down. She was on the asphault wasn't she ?

Yeah, but it wasn't their phault.

You have been found guilty of a terrible pun. You are hereby sentenced to drinking a beverage of your choice, you hilarious bastard.


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)