Nov 26, 2011, 9:37 AM
Post #2 of 48
(2424 views)
Shortcut
Re: [B52] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Tunnel time is not a "jump". A jump requires an aircraft exit, a parachute deployment, a parachute ride, a parachute landing, and a chance of malfunction and death. The only thing that a wind tunnel and a jump have in common is "freefall", and even that isn't really the same. In a tunnel you can't ride "the hill" on exit, you can't dive to get to a formation, you can't dock from 50-feet out, you can't go low, you can't float back up, you can't track, you can't build a 10-way, you can't steer a parachute, and you can't land a parachute.
So, in learning to skydive, a minute in a tunnel is worth about .01 jumps.
If your only goal is to learn 4-way point transitions, then I'd give it a .9.
(This post was edited by JohnRich on Nov 26, 2011, 9:40 AM)
Nov 26, 2011, 6:04 PM
Post #3 of 48
(2362 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Quote:
you can't go low, you can't float back up
This is the only part of what you said that I disagree with. You can learn to fly slower and faster on your belly better then you can in the sky.
The tunnel will help your over all freefall skills and it is faster and easier to learn freeflying in the tunnel. The added plus is you generally won't learn any bad habits when it comes to freeflying especially.
Nov 26, 2011, 10:23 PM
Post #4 of 48
(2330 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
You sound like one of those skydivers that refuse to accept tunnels.
Tunnel Time will have you outperforming those who only jump from planes very quickly.
I'll leave it like this. The BEST Skydiving teams and competitors in the world, spend lots of time in tunnels. It's a fact that to be competitive you need both.
So why would you rate a minute of tunnel as equal to .01 jump? Is that ignorance or arrogance?
Nov 27, 2011, 12:27 AM
Post #5 of 48
(2322 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
You sound like one of those skydivers that refuse to accept tunnels.
Tunnel Time will have you outperforming those who only jump from planes very quickly.
I'll leave it like this. The BEST Skydiving teams and competitors in the world, spend lots of time in tunnels. It's a fact that to be competitive you need both.
So why would you rate a minute of tunnel as equal to .01 jump? Is that ignorance or arrogance?
I don't think it's ignorance OR arrogance, it sounds like an opinion that a minute of flying in a tunnel doesn't equal a PARACHUTE jump. Like he said, exit, tracking, canopy control, emergency procedures...all THOSE things a bit tough to practice in a wind tunnel.
Nov 27, 2011, 7:16 AM
Post #6 of 48
(2304 views)
Shortcut
Re: [B52] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Quote:
Would you count a minute in the tunnel as a jump, half a jump, no jump...?
A tunnel only contributes to one specific part of the skydive, that being the freefall portion from just after exit to the break off. Everything before, and everythig after are 'skydiving' specific skills, and the tunnel is of no help.
The exit itself is different than a tunnel. The wind direction and speed are different, and making the transition from the door to freefall, and flying in the subterminal air on the hill are not things you can learn in the tunnel. You might be able to turn 20 points in 35 seconds in the tunnel, but that does not mean you can compete at nationals and expect to fly exits with the best of them.
The break off is a no-brainer, there is no tracking in the tunnel, and the end of any safe multi-person jump will involve tracking. You might be able to freefly like a champ from your tunnel skills, but what do you do at break off with 4 or 5 other jumpers with you in the sky?
Other areas of concern - aircraft safety, aircraft emergency procedures, and safe movement in and around an aricraft with a rig on. Deployment, emergency procedures, canopy control and traffic management. These are all skills that you develop over the course of many jumps, and skills you will use on every jump.
From once you hit terminal to break off, the tunnel is THE training tool. At that same time, let's remember that freefall is probably the least important part of the jump. You can make a jump, turn zero points, and actually tumble until pull time, and as long as you can get stable and pull, it's a 'good' freefall. Not colliding with any part of the aircraft on exit, and deploying and flying a parachute to a safe landing are the important parts of making a jump.
I think the important thing for an ace tunnel flyer to remember when starting to jump is that no matter how good they are in the tunnel, they only have the number of actual jumps in their logbook. When I learned to groundlaunch, I had 14 years of jumping experience, and 4500+ jumps on high performance canopies, but I was sure to remind myself that I had zero launches, and I was in somebody else's 'playground'. Much of it was simialr to skydiving (my playground) but I new a noob, and made sure to approach it accordingly. If tunnel flyers training to become skydivers can do the same, I'm sure they'll be fine.
Nov 27, 2011, 7:21 AM
Post #7 of 48
(2301 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
You sound like one of those skydivers that refuse to accept tunnels.
Tunnel Time will have you outperforming those who only jump from planes very quickly.
I'll leave it like this. The BEST Skydiving teams and competitors in the world, spend lots of time in tunnels. It's a fact that to be competitive you need both.
So why would you rate a minute of tunnel as equal to .01 jump?
I acknowledge what you say, but that wasn't the question. The question was if it was equal to a parachute jump, and it is not. As I said before (how could you have missed it?), if you want to learn 4-way point transitions, it's a fantastic tool. That's what those teams are doing in the tunnels. But that's only one part of a "jump", and only one specialized skill amongst the many types of jumps that could be done, and amongst the many skills that are employed during the course of a real jump. The things you can practice in a tunnel or only a small portion of the skills you need to make actual parachute jumps.
(This post was edited by JohnRich on Nov 27, 2011, 7:23 AM)
Nov 27, 2011, 9:35 PM
Post #9 of 48
(2227 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
>>The exit itself is different than a tunnel. The wind direction and speed are different, and making the transition from the door to freefall, and flying in the subterminal air on the hill are not things you can learn in the tunnel. <<
While I agree that you cant learn these 'specific' things in a tunnel, saying that tunnel flying won't help flying at sub terminal speeds is bs and the skills can definitely be applied here - who cares what direction the wind is coming from.
I'm not implying that the tunnel will make you bad ass at this - you definitely need to work on this in the air - but it helps nonetheless.
Nov 30, 2011, 4:39 PM
Post #10 of 48
(2099 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
I agree with most of what you said. But I read the original question more along the lines of Freefall skills only. He mentioned skill level specific to freefall.
And yes you can deploy a parachute in the Tunnel............Once.
Dec 1, 2011, 5:47 AM
Post #11 of 48
(2055 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
I agree with most of what you said. But I read the original question more along the lines of Freefall skills only. He mentioned skill level specific to freefall.
And yes you can deploy a parachute in the Tunnel............Once.
I would say that time spent in the tunnel is more effective than time spent in freefall doing relative work (either belly or freefly relative work). That being said, it's not every thing. It doesnt teach you tracking, overall awareness, exits, getting to and from long distances (swooping).
So yes, tunnel is very effective. But it's not jumping.
I know of a son-of-a-DZO who, after countless hours in tunnels through his teens, ended up doing his AFF in 1 jump when he turned 16 (after probably a dozen or so tandems in his teens). His next jump was a 4 way in which he turned something like 12 points. Awesome right? Sure, but he deployed in place since no one (him included) trusted his track, and flew a student canopy.
So it's great to learn how to fly, and to do it well, but it'snot a jump.
Me, personally, I see it as a tool. For my money, I'd rather be jumping, but I'll still invest time in the tube to focus on key improvements.
Dec 1, 2011, 4:35 PM
Post #13 of 48
(1953 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
And yes you can deploy a parachute in the Tunnel............Once.
I watched a guy do this once and the tether broke about the time he got line streatch... Blew him out of the tunnel ( it was outside) and about killed him as he landed on an oil tank. Wasn't very pretty!
How would you rate jumps vs minutes in the tunnel?
the ratio is "zero"
100 hours of tunnel time rates as zero jumps however 1000 skydives rates as zero tunnel time
These conversations always digress to those that don't like tunnels rationalizing their positions vs those that love tunnels rationalizing their positions.
I really don't get why people even care about this.
simple enough:
If you don't like tunnels - don't go. But don't be upset when tunnel flyers learn a lot faster and get to do cooler stuff on their skydives.
If you like tunnels, enjoy the skills boost - but don't think it gets you any more street cred except for the freefall portion - you still have learn all the other stuff - including the culture - at a normal learning curve. Enjoy the huge rig - tunnel flying does NOT give you credit to do anything (such as fly tiny rigs earlier than anyone else, or jumping a camera, or instructing, etc etc etc).
(This post was edited by rehmwa on Dec 2, 2011, 7:33 AM)
Dec 2, 2011, 11:52 AM
Post #16 of 48
(1848 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
I'll leave it like this. The BEST Skydiving teams and competitors in the world, spend lots of time in tunnels. It's a fact that to be competitive you need both.
You can become a tandem master with 500 jumps and 0 minutes in the tunnel, but you can't do it with 300 jumps and 100 hours tunnel time.
As for the BEST teams training in the tunnels......only the ones in free fall disciplines (excluding the wingsuiters)
Dec 2, 2011, 8:40 PM
Post #17 of 48
(1815 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deyan] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
The tunnel is great for anyone that wants to work on free-fall positions. If you want to work on RW or free flying you can learn it all in there before trying it in the sky.
But you can't get overly cocky and think that because you can sitfly in the tunnel but only have 40 jumps that you know how to land anything and are anything more than a 40 jumper who has some decent freefly skills.
Dec 3, 2011, 6:14 AM
Post #18 of 48
(1789 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
I am not entirely sure if this is relevant to the OP's question. Personally tunnel time made me a safer and more confident skydiver.
I learn't through static line progression. I found freefall stability extremely difficult and as a result I was always mentally overloaded. The lack of awareness and mental overload reduced my capacity to jump safely.
When I got back into jumping, I had a reasonable amount of tunnel time and I KNEW that I could get stable within 1/2 a second or so. The result was that I was much more relaxed and therefore more aware of my surroundings.
But as so many people have said in this thread, the two are completely different.
Dec 4, 2011, 8:39 PM
Post #19 of 48
(1680 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Quote:
You sound like one of those skydivers that refuse to accept tunnels.
No, he sounds like a guy that answered the question asked.
The tunnel is great... but it is not a jump and never will be a jump.
It can make you perform better in RW or VRW, but it will never help you with malfunctions or landing a canopy.
And before you think I am "one of those guys".... I am willing to bet I have more tunnel time than most jumpers and maybe most of the posters on this site.
Dec 4, 2011, 9:55 PM
Post #20 of 48
(1669 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deyan] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Well I guess that's why folks with a couple hundred jumps, no ratings, and 1000's of tunnel hours were on the last HD World Record. Because they lacked the skydiving skills.
I dont consider anyone with 500 jumps and a Tandem Rating a Tandem Master. Nor would they take any of my friends or family up.
I think it's an obvious "No SHIT", that you can't practice canopy flight, aircraft exits, Tracking (Like thats even difficult), and Canopy Control in a Tunnel, and whatever other long list of typical responses are that protect ego's.
I regularyly see tunnel flyers passing by traditional skydivers with little difficulty. They have the body flying skills and confidence, to where they are not worrying about the freefall portion of flying. This frees them up to concentrate on and quickly learn the other skills, minus canopy flight - which takes thousands of jumps to master.
And No I'm not just a tunnel rat (150 Hrs), I also have just under 2000 jumps. For anyone who's wondering.
(This post was edited by hparrish on Dec 4, 2011, 9:59 PM)
Dec 5, 2011, 8:08 AM
Post #21 of 48
(1627 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
Well I guess that's why folks with a couple hundred jumps, no ratings, and 1000's of tunnel hours were on the last HD World Record. Because they lacked the skydiving skills......I think it's an obvious "No SHIT", that you can't practice canopy flight, aircraft exits, Tracking (Like thats even difficult), and Canopy Control in a Tunnel, and whatever other long list of typical responses are that protect ego's.
You just refuse to accept the answers you have been given to the question asked and you claim others have the ego issue? Really?
How does tunnel time relate to JUMPS and it just simply does not.
A better question (that would have given you the answer you seem to want and would accept) is "How does tunnel time relate to FREEFALL time?"
And that would be very close to one-one, maybe even BETTER since people use the tunnel to work on very small basics more often than they would in freefall. Not many jumpers will go up and do solos to work on turns, but they will hire a coach and spin 360's all day in the tunnel.
And the honest answer is that a person will take a certain level of performance from the tunnel into the air.... That ratio depends on the experience level of the person, but it seems 60-80% of what a person does in the tunnel translates to freefall once all the other distractions are added in.... The less exp you have, the less you carry over. The more exp, you will carry over more. I have seen as much as 85-90% and as low as zero.
But the VERY simple fact is that tunnel does not and never will equal jumps.
Quote:
I regularyly see tunnel flyers passing by traditional skydivers with little difficulty. They have the body flying skills and confidence, to where they are not worrying about the freefall portion of flying. This frees them up to concentrate on and quickly learn the other skills, minus canopy flight - which takes thousands of jumps to master.
Well, I had a teammate that was a tunnel rat, an AMAZING flyer. He didn't know what the cells of the canopy were called, didn't know how to hook up a three ring, and when faced with a simple malfunction, died.
Another guy I know was a tunnel rat..... Maybe one of the first. He almost killed himself twice under canopy before quitting the sport.
Another guy who was a MANAGER of the first windtunnel broke his back under canopy. Another wind tunnel manager broke his leg during AFF.
All of these folks had hundreds to thousands of hours of tunnel....
Ask the USPA how to log tunnel time for license's and ratings.
Quote:
And No I'm not just a tunnel rat (150 Hrs), I also have just under 2000 jumps. For anyone who's wondering.
OK, I have easily twice as much tunnel and twice as many jumps. And I still think that tunnel does not equal jumps.
It seems pretty clear that the ONLY answer you will accept is one that lets you count tunnel time as a jump at some ratio that YOU approve of......
(This post was edited by Ron on Dec 5, 2011, 8:18 AM)
Dec 5, 2011, 4:45 PM
Post #22 of 48
(1571 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Agreed!
And also wanted to add a little tid bit to the whole being awesome at flying your body from the tunnel time. That's great and all, but it will never replace the situational awareness that you get from the actual jumps. One of the reasons I wasn't out freeflying with larger groups after I got a bunch of tunnel time. But then again, I'm just a conservative weenie sometimes.
Dec 6, 2011, 2:30 PM
Post #25 of 48
(1473 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Quote:
Not sure where you are getting that at all. I think I have clearly stated that Tunnel Time relates equally to Freefall Time and not the other stuff.
We get that idea, because that is what you said:
"Well I guess that's why folks with a couple hundred jumps, no ratings, and 1000's of tunnel hours were on the last HD World Record. Because they lacked the skydiving skills."
Skydiving skills includes things like canopy control, spotting, malfunctions... etc.
"Tunnel Time will have you outperforming those who only jump from planes very quickly. "
Not at spotting, flying a canopy, swooping to a formation, malfunctions... etc.
So when they guy asked "Would you count a minute in the tunnel as a jump, half a jump, no jump...?"
And John answered that it is not a jump and even mentioned "The only thing that a wind tunnel and a jump have in common is "freefall", and even that isn't really the same."
And you even screwed up his math....
"If your only goal is to learn 4-way point transitions, then I'd give it a .9"
.9, that is .1 from *equal*... But you jumped on him with: "You sound like one of those skydivers that refuse to accept tunnels.... So why would you rate a minute of tunnel as equal to .01 jump? Is that ignorance or arrogance? "
So you seem to have an agenda to support tunnels and that has blinded you to what was actually said.
Dec 6, 2011, 3:54 PM
Post #27 of 48
(759 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
I have clearly stated that Tunnel Time relates equally to Freefall Time...
Nope, not even that. There are many different types of freefall skills which can NOT be practiced in a tunnel, like long dives to a distant base, swooping to dock from far out, and tracking. How would a tunnel simulate exiting 20th out of an Otter, diving to the base 500 feet below, leveling out, bleeding off your forward approach speed, avoid going low, and taking no-momentem grips on the outside of a 20-way formation? The tunnel is great for close-proximity maneuvering practice, but you should quit trying to make it more than it is. The tunnel will help you turn the 2nd point on that 20-way, but it doesn't do much to get you there for the 1st point. And without the 1st point, you don't get a 2nd.
Dec 6, 2011, 7:30 PM
Post #28 of 48
(736 views)
Shortcut
Re: [B52] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
You will learn more freefall skills in 60 minutes of tunnel than you will in 60 skydives.
You will learn zero parachute/spotting skills in 60 minutes of tunnel.
Whatever your tunnel/skydiving balance is is up to you. Some skydivers have never been in a tunnel, and some tunnelrats have never been skydiving. I prefer to spend money on the things that I want to spend money on, and if people think I spend too much time tunnelling or skydiving, then they can go f*** themselves.
Dec 6, 2011, 8:56 PM
Post #29 of 48
(731 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Like I mentioned before, while you can't directly practice these specific things in the tunnel, overall tunnel flying can help improve in these areas.
Prior to my tunnel addiction, I could barely hang in a head down 4 way that left the plane together. I can only remember a few times where I exited unlinked, and actually made it to the jump, let alone docked on something.
After about 25 hours in the tunnel over the winter, I was last diver on 8 and 10 ways getting into the jumps relatively quickly (relative means not quick by quick standards, but compared to before - I was docked onto the base within 12 - 18 seconds after exiting). This was only after about 10 jumps - and I hadn't jumped for about 6 months prior to this.
After about 100 - 150 jumps post tunnel, I was doing 20, 30 and 40 ways. There is no way that I would have been doing this without the tunnel ( i did attend a lot of camps and got coaching from the best during my first 100ish jumps after the tunnel - and I had about 800 jumps so already had some general sky awareness)
Now, I had to spend ALOT of jumps improving on diving, floating, exits ect. and still have a ton of work to do, but there's no doubt there were tremendous improvements that are directly attributed to flying in the tunnel.
IMO, its best to do both. Both skydivers-only and tunnel-only peeps will be left in the dust by those who do BOTH regularly and consistently.
I fucking love the tunnel and I fucking love skydiving.
Dec 8, 2011, 9:59 AM
Post #38 of 48
(606 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hparrish] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Quote:
He's definately the Bigger One.
Oh look, more childish insults. That the best you got? I am not surprised, you started in this thread with insults and the best you have done so far is throw more of them.
(This post was edited by Ron on Dec 8, 2011, 10:01 AM)
Dec 9, 2011, 8:52 AM
Post #43 of 48
(522 views)
Shortcut
Re: [dcfreefly] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
There is no comparison in jumps vs tunnel but there is in free-fall time vs tunnel, as stated several times. There is a great advantage in tunnel from that perspective though in terms of who fast you can learn.
Take a 15 minute session of coached tunnel you a) get 2 skydives worth of time for each 2 minute rotation then b) you get immediate feed back from your coach and often 2-4 minutes later you are back in the tunnel doing the exercise again and c) 1 hour of tunnel in a day is often equivalent to 6 months or a year of jumping for a lot of people!putting all that learning into 1 hour with everything fresh in terms of muscle memory and timing has to have an advantage.
Now that doesn't mean a minute of tunnel is equal to a jump as there are so many other components to a good AND safe skydive.
The tunnel is a tool that used properly can definitely give more bang for the buck in ONE area of the skydive.
As stated in this thread, they both are needed and have differnet value dependent on how they are used. my 2 cents.
Those you need to practice on actual skydives. Sometimes over confidence from extra freefall skills can bleed into an over confidence in these skill areas, but that is all personality based. If your cocky, your going to be a 200 jump wonder who is an amazing “swooper” regardless of any tunnel time or not.
2. The tunnel has the following advantages:
- Your freefall skills improve at a much faster level. This is through a combination of things:
o Exposure, more tunnel time is like more freefall, only easier to get as you don’t need all the extra resources like waiting for a plane, weather, etc.
o Direct feedback. Because there is a grate and walls it forces your body to learn exactly where its center point is. Often in the sky formations will drift horizontally and everyone on the jump simply compensates for it without knowing. Take a GPS on your next formation jump and you will see what I mean. With the walls of a tunnel you have no choice but to fall perfectly “down the pipe”. This makes learning your neutral much faster then progressing in the air.
o Immediate feedback. In the sky an instructor falls with you, has a few minutes of waiting till you land then de-briefs you. In the tunnel they can walk up and fix your body position immediately and will de-brief you immediately after your 2 min session.
o Currency. The development of muscle memory is always faster when you have a shorter duration of time between inputs. Turn around time in a tunnel is simply faster.
An example of the benefits:
Someone above mentioned that tunnel does not help you on Bigway jumps. They are right and wrong. Here are the arguments:
There are many different types of freefall skills which can NOT be practiced in a tunnel
1. like long dives to a distant base. Its true that tunnel does not help with the long dive. Where it comes in very handy is knowing how to hit the brakes. Slow flying in the tunnel teaches you how to maximize your de-arch to fall as slow as possible. This is exactly the same body position you use when you hit the brakes at the end of a long dive.
2. tracking. As mentioned above you learn how to really slow fall in the tunnel minimizing your vertical rate of descent. A track is essentially the same de-arch except your arms are brought back and lower then your torso and your lets are out. The majority of the lift generated in a track is from a solid torso de-arch, not the small percentage of surface area that your legs and arms have as a ratio to your total surface area.
“How would a tunnel simulate exiting 20th out of an Otter, diving to the base 500 feet below, leveling out, bleeding off your forward approach speed, avoid going low, and taking no-momentem grips on the outside of a 20-way formation?”
This is not a slight toward the original poster, just education for all who read this:
Here is how tunnel would help: Diving out in any orientation (since priority is getting out of the plane quickly) and being stable regardless of what your body position is when you hit the relative wind.
You learn how to backslide really well by dropping your knees (stability drills). This skill really helps you to bleed off excess forward speed on approach.
The ability to really de-arch in order to hit the brakes and ensure you don’t go low. This de-arch really helps to keep you in the stadium for your approach. If you end up level with a formation you still have more slow fall (de-arch) left in your skill set to get back up into the stadium.
A no momentum dock is a close proximity skill. When your body flies perfect and calmly you don’t need to take a grip at all, The perfect big way is one where everyone gets to there slot, flies there slot without taking grips (stop before you dock) verifies there on level and then in one smooth movement its goes grip-grip-grip-grip……..and its built. If everyone leant this skill there would be no more waves that can throw people off the formation.
I have lots of skydives and lots of tunnel so this post is not an argument for or against tunnel, both have benefits and both have draw backs. The bottom line is safety. Freefall will not kill you if you can deploy stable. Canopy can easily kill you if you do not pay attention or get too cocky. So regardless of which side of the argument you are on please highlight to all skydivers that Canopy has killed way too many skydivers then anything else and that every skydive needs to be a carefull one regardless of your skill level.
(This post was edited by Chris_K on Dec 12, 2011, 5:32 AM)
Dec 12, 2011, 8:56 AM
Post #47 of 48
(417 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Chris_K] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Quote:
Immediate feedback. In the sky an instructor falls with you, has a few minutes of waiting till you land then de-briefs you. In the tunnel they can walk up and fix your body position immediately and will de-brief you immediately after your 2 min session.
I can fix you in freefall as well as in the tunnel. The only real difference is that the student is normally more relaxed and if they don't "get" what I am saying I can pull them out, tell them and then throw them back in.
But to claim that someone can't "fix a body position" in freefall is not accurate.
Dec 12, 2011, 9:10 AM
Post #48 of 48
(414 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] tunnel time vs jump numbers
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Fair enough. The exact wording used to describe that feedback doesnt matter. Its different when you can walk up make an adjustment (or pull them out and tell them) then on a skydive when they are partially distracted by the ground.
Giant-Cock.jpg
