Okay, I'll bite. The softest openings I've ever had were from the PD Spectre and Aerodyne's Pilot, both of which I have owned. The opening is like falling over backwards into bed, though both involve a good snivel. The Pilot's snivel is not so bad, the Spectre's is infamous (as in take along a good crossword puzzle....). My Pilot seems to open in 500 - 600 ft, the Spectre might take up to 800.
While we're on the topic, think about your reserve at terminal. PD makes two excellent reserves, the "old" PD Reserve, and the new Optimum. I've dumped both at terminal (a PD Reserve after a pilot chute in tow malfunction) and the Optimum as a main canopy for a demo jump. Both give you very quick, but quite comfortable openings, which is what you need from a reserve (the Optimum is incredible by the way and worth every penny of the higher price - you may change main canopies often, but a reserve is usually a long term keeper).
What's the softest opening canopy you've jumped? I'm looking to buy a new canopy and noticed the last thread on this topic is from 2005. Post away!
I would have to say.. my old school PISA now Aerodyne Triathlon.
I liked my old one so much that I bought a whole new rig to upsize to a new one for when my shoulder heals enough to jump again. Nice soft openings... nice soft landings...
(This post was edited by Amazon on Oct 2, 2011, 2:04 PM)
My spectre opens super soft, sometimes scary soft, 1200 foot opening arent uncommon
Doesn't anyone try unstowing the brakes when it takes so long? A very long time ago I had a canopy that seemed to not open until I did that, or at least I should say I never let it just go on sniveling for over 1000 feet. That was back when canopies never sniveled for long.
luckily im still conservative with my deployment altitude so i havent had an issue yet. Its not 1000 feet every time but its never quick, or hard for that matter.
Without a doubt hands down is the Jump Shacks Firebolt. It's a elliptical canopy available in various sizes. Call and ask Nancy for a demo canopy to jump.
A note on soft opening canopies--ANY canopy can open very hard. I feel confident in saying that there isn't a modern canopy that hasn't hammered someone. I have a few hundred spectre jumps, and one was a crusher. I hung in the saddle a while after opening. After landing I just sat there a while.
I recommend a Pilot as a solid performer, with very consistent, soft openings.
Have you jumped a Sabre II before? I've been hearing really good things about the Spectre but was wondering how it compares to the Sabre II. I rented a Sabre II 170 @ the DZ one weekend when I was getting my canopy relined, and it opened REALLY soft, had some slider hang up ... wouldn't mind having some slider hang up every now and then!
I jump a pilot and they open really soft. My snivel is a long one 700-1000 ft(sometimes shorter though) but the openings are fantastic. Keep in mind i've only jumped a navigator, pilot, and sabre 2. so far the best openings are on my pilot. someone recommended hma instead of spectra but i jump my pilot with spectra and my openings are nice and soft. I'm still new so i don't know what difference it would make but this is just my 2 cents
The first canopy I ever had that was mine: 7 cell Triathlon 210, the second canopy: 7 cell Triathlon 190; My third canopy: PISA Hornet 170, 7 cell semi elipitacal. All of them opened great & flew well.
Have you jumped a Sabre II before? I've been hearing really good things about the Spectre but was wondering how it compares to the Sabre II. I rented a Sabre II 170 @ the DZ one weekend when I was getting my canopy relined, and it opened REALLY soft, had some slider hang up ... wouldn't mind having some slider hang up every now and then!
Sabre2s can open soft, but they can also open hard, and anywhere in between. I understand it to be pretty sensitive to packing.
I'm told it's especially sensitive to how the slider is quartered, particularly the sides being pulled out properly. I pull the sides of the slider well out and make sure it stays put during the rest of the pack job. That gives me openings that are pretty consistenly soft. But I don't have a whole lot of jumps on it.
I've had it slam me once or twice, once really hard from a paid packer.
My top list of soft opening canopies would be something like this:
Neos-99 (when it doesn't open hard, have not tried any with the fix). Crossfire2-129 Safire2-139 Storm 135(?) JVX-90 Scirocco-77 Crossfire2-119 Safire2-119
Its been too long since I jumped a spectre to know where it would go in the list, but probably near the Storm.
Of these, I can only recommend a Safire2 or Storm to someone with few jump numbers.
I've also only jumped one of each kind and all canopies are a bit different.
What about Atair Radical? The Radical also incorporates the Atair 2 Stage Opening Technology, originally used on the Atair Cobalt Canopy, which provides soft predictable on heading openings. This means all center cells are ported but there is no porting between 3 center cells and outher cells. In my expirience (200 jumps on Radical 135) - faster you go it opens slower.
Sabre2s can open soft, but they can also open hard, and anywhere in between. I understand it to be pretty sensitive to packing.
My Sabre2 (170 sqft, WL: 1:1) opens really soft. I have about 35 jumps on it now and had not a single hard opening. Sometimes the sliders stays half way up, so you have to pump with your back risers to get it down.
Packing: Just a regular pro-pack packjob. I quarter my slider, fold the stabilisers towards the middle and leave the nose hanging (do not roll it) with the slider in one line with the nose (I do not pull the slider out/in front of the nose).
Openings are very soft and almost every time the endcells are closed which can (sometimes) cause a 90° turn.
It is a toss up between my old PISA Hornet... and the old Monarch. My hornet opened occasionally (OK more than occasionally) in 200 feet. I nick named it the WHOOOOOOOORENNNNNETTTT. I would spend the time regaining conciousness by cursing the canopy.
Maybe a Monnnnnarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcchhhhhhh.
In all seriousness my first canopy, Pilot 168, was one of the best opening canopies that I could recommend for a beginner / intermediate canopy pilot. At lower loadings it does so many things so damn well! Opened so soft and like a dream, but unlike other soft openers it had a reasonable snivel. Very stable in deep brakes, floated back like a ballon. Stable in line twists. Great great canopy!
(This post was edited by DougH on Oct 3, 2011, 6:55 AM)
No, I was not paying attention, Radical is NOT for person with 100 jumps, but there is another canopy Atair Dragon uses same 2 stage opening technology, and it is very docile,...
(This post was edited by jerolim on Oct 3, 2011, 7:11 AM)
Sabre2s can open soft, but they can also open hard, and anywhere in between. I understand it to be pretty sensitive to packing.
I'm told it's especially sensitive to how the slider is quartered, particularly the sides being pulled out properly. I pull the sides of the slider well out and make sure it stays put during the rest of the pack job. That gives me openings that are pretty consistenly soft. But I don't have a whole lot of jumps on it.
I've had it slam me once or twice, once really hard from a paid packer.
I have jumped a Sabre2 for a while and had very soft openings.
I am sure the slider has a lot to do with hard openings. I wonder if we're going to see more canopies adopt the snap system currently on Velocities. Any downsides to that?
No, I was not paying attention, Radical is NOT for person with 100 jumps, but there is another canopy Atair Dragon uses same 2 stage opening technology, and it is very docile,...
side question, are Atair still in business for the sport skydiving?
I can tell you which isn't the softest opening canopy, and that would be my Sabre1. Forgot the roll the nose the other day and opening felt like a car crash.
I can tell you which isn't the softest opening canopy, and that would be my Sabre1. Forgot the roll the nose the other day and opening felt like a car crash.
PD says that you must have done something else wrong, usually they say that the slider must not have stayed against the stops. You don't think PD would fail to admit the Sabre had a well deserved reputation for hard openings, do you?
Agreed! The slowest-opening canopy I ever jumped was ragged-out ropes-and-rings Strato-Cloud. It was the only canopy that I could comfortably deploy at terminal! Disadvantages were numerous. It was a bitch to pack. My fingers bled every time. Openings took so long that the team stopped using them for hop-and-pops. One time my opening took so long that I seriously considered cutting away, One look at the industrial park below convinced me that I did not want to land a round reserve there, so I re-focussed my efforts on pumping open the end cells. Speaking of pumping open end cells ... that took half my efforts under canopy. It seems that our ropes were 64 feet BEFORE they were tied to the pilot-chutes!
I think they have things worked out on the Sabre 2, but the Sabre 1 is a completely different animal. Until I got a lip sewed onto my slider, it was Russian Roulette at opening time. Most of the time it behaved nicely. The rest of the time it was trying to kill me... just a little at a time. Once the lip got sewn on, everything mellowed out.
In reply to:
I can tell you which isn't the softest opening canopy, and that would be my Sabre1. Forgot the roll the nose the other day and opening felt like a car crash.
Although the first time I deployed it, I thought I might have a streamer, it took so long to catch the wind.)
Hah. I still remember my first jump on my Spectre (first canopy of my own). I was first out of the plane (did a hop & pop on it for the first jump to air it out) and one of the much more experienced jumpers (who also jumped a Spectre) smiled at me just before exit and said "It will open."
(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Aug 31, 2012, 2:47 PM)
hmm, my Spectre 170 loaded just under 1:1 with a pretty new lineset opens very consistently in just around 500 ft. Plenty soft, just not particularly snivelly; I'm very used to seeing Sabre 2s falling a few hundred feet past me. In 64 openings on it, 61 came in at right around 500 ft, 2 in 2-300 ft that had me checking that I still had my shoes, and one over 1200 that had me hauling on my rears for the last 500 ft to my decision altitude.
Gotta say I love the Icarus canopies. Switched from rental (215 falcon) to 169 Safire of my own. First opening on it scared the hell out of me but my thighs loved it. Since then I have jumped a 150 Saber 2 (it was ok) then went to the Crossfire 1 139 (back in love) and am currently on a Crossfire 2 129. The Safire was a nice all round canopy and pretty manageable with my earlier jump numbers. Chris G.
What's the softest opening canopy you've jumped? I'm looking to buy a new canopy and noticed the last thread on this topic is from 2005. Post away!
Gotta agree with AggieDave. The hands-down, softest-opening canopy I ever jumped was a Spectre-170 with Dacron lines, loaded at about 0.9 to 1.
(I was still a student. And it rocked. Although the first time I deployed it, I thought I might have a streamer, it took so long to catch the wind.)
Since I finished AFF, I've been jumping the exact same main. Absolutely LOVE the spectre for it's openings. 300 jumps later, I still haven't downsized. I've put on some weight so it's as good as.
I've test jumped many other canopies and EVERY one opened harder for me than the spectre.
I've test jumped many other canopies and EVERY one opened harder for me than the spectre.
I had almost the exact opposite experience with the Spectre. So much so that I gave it back to PD earlier than my demo turn in date. My Sabre2 and Safire2 both opened better than that dang pile of nylon. My Safire2 has the sweetest openings I've had in my limited canopy experience. (Navigators, Sabre2, Nitron, Spectre, Pilot, Precision Tandem and Safire2)
I continue to hear people with Pulse's saying how smooth and easy and consistent the openings are.
My wife broke her neck a couple years ago. So after recovery, she immediately switched to a Pulse (PD's recommendation and several others) and a semi-stowless bag and for the entire season so far it's smooth, soft, and clean (not necessarily slow openings, just very consistent and smooth). FWIW
I had a sabre 150 open so hard on me once, I basically folded in half and my helmet came off, it was a Z1, it fell 3000 ft and survived... minus some cosmetic damage.... People on the ground that saw it, said it was fully open in about a second... I felt like I had been in a car accident the next day... I never jumped it again! AERODYNE PILOT all the way!
The more I jump my Z-Po 210 by Strong the more I love it...I think it's a combination of the trim and the large pocket slider, that thing opens soft every time no matter how fast & sloppy I pack it or how fast & sloppy I unpack it.
Fully elliptical canopies are known for soft openings. My Katana deploys on a average vertical distance of 600 ft. That has been determined by downloading the data from my Vigil 2 via its interface I have. Instead of working with figures directely, I have worked on 10 consecutive jump graphs (altitude-time from the Vigil 2). By drawing lines precisely on the graphs, I could determine altitudes and time taken (simple physics work). In comparison, using the same method on my former Sabre-2 gave an average deployment vertical distance of 340 ft, quite a difference.
From my point of view, this is the most accurate method when not using more sophisticate expensive equipment. Obviously, soft openings mean longer vertical distances to deploy.
billvon (D 16479)
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Sep 19, 2012, 1:56 PM
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>Fully elliptical canopies are known for soft openings.
Two of the softest opening canopies I have ever jumped were the Spectre 170 and the Pilot 150. One of the hardest opening canopies I ever jumped was a Katana 120.
Planform is a pretty minor issue in terms of opening severity when compared to slider size, cathedraling, brake settings, trim angle etc.
>Fully elliptical canopies are known for soft openings.
Two of the softest opening canopies I have ever jumped were the Spectre 170 and the Pilot 150. One of the hardest opening canopies I ever jumped was a Katana 120.
Planform is a pretty minor issue in terms of opening severity when compared to slider size, cathedraling, brake settings, trim angle etc.
My KA 135 and 120 both open really softly. To the point where I have started packing the nose like a reserve to speed it up.
softest opening canopy I have is my cruise lite, pitched at 5000 and it just sniveled, to high for a cut away so I waited, reached for the cut away at 2500 and it got scared and opened. haven't jumped that one in a long time
Planform is a pretty minor issue in terms of opening severity when compared to slider size, cathedraling, brake settings, trim angle etc.
With trim and slider being the biggest factors. You add 1” to the “A” lines and 1 ¾” to the “B” lines of a hard opening canopy and it will open sweet. It may fly like shit but it will open sweet. Canopy design is all about trade offs.
softest opening canopy I have is my cruise lite, pitched at 5000 and it just sniveled, to high for a cut away so I waited, reached for the cut away at 2500 and it got scared and opened. haven't jumped that one in a long time
Hi God
Bought one new
When it started to snivel we stopped rolling the nose.
It helped for a while then we hot knifed a coffee can size hole in the slider.
That helped for a while then we had to resort to pumping the shit out of the brakes to get it to open.
We were pulling at 2.5. only cut it away once or twice
We finally threw the POS away (it only had 500 jumps on it) Bought a Sabre first jump left the nose fully exposed like the cruise lite
Let someone pack the Sabre once.. lesson learned roll your own or know the packer.
Kathy from TPP was a real pro there are some others that can give some advice on packing for a soft opening just know who your talking to.
softest opening canopy I have is my cruise lite, pitched at 5000 and it just sniveled, to high for a cut away so I waited, reached for the cut away at 2500 and it got scared and opened. haven't jumped that one in a long time
Hi God
Bought one new ____________________________________________________________
Always pack my own Krip, tried alot of methods with that old rag to, reason I opened high is because I was with a person with new gear and he opened at 6000'. only cut the thing away once though. That old 22' sac reserve had a pretty docile opening to
When it started to snivel we stopped rolling the nose.
It helped for a while then we hot knifed a coffee can size hole in the slider.
That helped for a while then we had to resort to pumping the shit out of the brakes to get it to open.
We were pulling at 2.5. only cut it away once or twice
We finally threw the POS away (it only had 500 jumps on it) Bought a Sabre first jump left the nose fully exposed like the cruise lite
Let someone pack the Sabre once.. lesson learned roll your own or know the packer.
Kathy from TPP was a real pro there are some others that can give some advice on packing for a soft opening just know who your talking to.
Don't confuse soft with slow... Personally, I wouldn't like a canopy that took 1000' to open every time.
+1 My 210 Spectre spends a good 800ft not opening. That's just wasted to to me. My old Pegasus would start opening as soon as it was out of the bag, and still super soft.
Oh, and yeah, the Spectre opens soft, except when it doesn't.
Hard openings can likely happen on any parachute when for instance your slider moves up away from the stoppers only by one inch. Also, when you evaluate the vertical distance for a canopy deployment you should take a reasonable sample and take the average. One opening is not always significant for evaluating how hard opens a parachute. One time (the only time) my former Sabre 2 opened on a vertical distance of 180 ft (really hard). I am pretty sure that the packer had not checked the slider being against the stoppers. I complained to the packers responsible person who said she will pack herself my Sabre 2. It didn't happen again. No wonder, my Sabre 2 was opening on an average vertical distance of 340 ft (based on 10 consecutive jumps).
My Glidepath Fury 220. 400 foot or less opening soft smooth and on heading EVERY time. For a camera jump, 15 lbs back then, I'd roll the nose, flat pack it, (Yeah Im one of those) and had a 36" F111 pilot chute. The older my PC got the smoother the openings. I had no problems pitching at 2000 at all. I wish someone made a ZP fury. The closest i came was an Omega with almost 1000' snivels. I put a 159 slider on my 169 and solved that problem. It brought it back to 500' smooth openings. I dont freefly at so I dont need 10 second snivels
