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Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats]

 


virgin-burner

Sep 23, 2011, 2:08 AM
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Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] Can't Post

i've posted something this morning that i later on deleted; it was about a jumper in this thread with 200ish jumps that got himself a 97 katana two days ago.

not only me, but a few others, some very experienced jumpers, unlike me, expressed our concerns about his choice.

apparently, this post got noticed by someone at his dz (or it was something else maybe!?). this guy delivered a message to said jumper that if that were true he purchased a katana 97, he would not be jumping at his home-DZ with it.

i kinda feel bad about it, i personally DO NOT like ratting out on people, but having watched a lot of videos from said jumper, it was clear he would not be able to handle the katana, not only by his skills, but also with his attitude. all he cares for is "looking cool" and "having it done". he doesnt even enjoy skydiving that much, he cares about being "badass".

i have more details that i wont post publicly, but if anyone is interested, feel free to PM me.

now, please get the flamewar on! Unimpressed


(This post was edited by billvon on Sep 23, 2011, 9:22 AM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Sep 23, 2011, 2:48 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i've posted something this morning that i later on deleted; it was about a jumper in this thread with 200ish jumps that got himself a 97 katana two days ago.

not only me, but a few others, some very experienced jumpers, unlike me, expressed our concerns about his choice.

apparently, this post got noticed by someone at his dz (or it was something else maybe!?). this guy delivered a message to said jumper that if that were true he purchased a katana 97, he would not be jumping at his home-DZ with it.

i kinda feel bad about it, i personally DO NOT like ratting out on people, but having watched a lot of videos from said jumper, it was clear he would not be able to handle the katana, not only by his skills, but also with his attitude. all he cares for is "looking cool" and "having it done". he doesnt even enjoy skydiving that much, he cares about being "badass".

i have more details that i wont post publicly, but if anyone is interested, feel free to PM me.

now, please get the flamewar on! Unimpressed

Thank you for being a rat. You may have saved the guy's life.

So peer monitoring of a would-be canopy crasher seems to have worked just fine here. I hope topdocker (a USPA Director) reads your post. He seems to think this tactic can't work.Unsure


piisfish

Sep 23, 2011, 3:12 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i've posted something this morning that i later on deleted; it was about a jumper in this thread with 200ish jumps that got himself a 97 katana two days ago.
! Unimpressed
who sold the canopy ?? ?
Does he have a correctly sized rig to put it in now ?


(This post was edited by piisfish on Sep 23, 2011, 3:25 AM)


virgin-burner

Sep 23, 2011, 3:22 AM
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Re: [piisfish] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

a fellow jumper of his sold him the katana. he got a rig with a 129 safire2 before, on which made around 60 jumps, 100-150 jumps on a ragged out 190 f-111 of some sorts before.

sizing chart says it's too small for his rig, but someone must of assured him "it will work".


(This post was edited by virgin-burner on Sep 23, 2011, 6:20 AM)


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Sep 23, 2011, 3:46 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't understand your mindset. Why do you feel bad about it?

Isn't it better someone has their feelings hurt then their bones broken or something worse?


virgin-burner

Sep 23, 2011, 3:55 AM
Post #6 of 241 (9060 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

well, probably lost a "friend". i like the guy, and if he was a bit more consistent with his saf, i wouldnt have said anything, tough, i'd feel much worse then if i didnt and he hooked himself in.

apparently, someone on his dz that KNOWS him in real life thought the same. still hurts to loose a buddy.

pffft, fuck it. if i've saved a life i'll probably never know, and nobody will thank me for it, quite the opposite..

"ratting out" on someone, even for their own good, never turns out "nice" for all involved. Unimpressed


wildcard451  (D License)

Sep 23, 2011, 6:00 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well, probably lost a "friend". i like the guy, and if he was a bit more consistent with his saf, i wouldnt have said anything, tough, i'd feel much worse then if i didnt and he hooked himself in.

apparently, someone on his dz that KNOWS him in real life thought the same. still hurts to loose a buddy.

pffft, fuck it. if i've saved a life i'll probably never know, and nobody will thank me for it, quite the opposite..

"ratting out" on someone, even for their own good, never turns out "nice" for all involved. Unimpressed

Congrats. Thanks. Completeky the right thing.


Anvilbrother  (C 39168)

Sep 23, 2011, 9:30 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for doing it. I don't want people going out to rat on anyone for stupid things, but if it has to do with saving myself, my friends, the reputation of my dropzone, then let um have it.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Sep 23, 2011, 2:50 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Good stuff, VB.
But why did you delete the original post?


jrmrangers  (B 36060)

Sep 23, 2011, 4:54 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Dont worry VB no one really like you anyway so you probably didnt lose a friend!! But good job saving his ass though!!


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 23, 2011, 5:08 PM
Post #11 of 241 (8708 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you did is what more people should do. He may not want to be your friend any more but you sure as hell were a good friend to him.

Sparky


virgin-burner

Sep 23, 2011, 6:02 PM
Post #12 of 241 (8686 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Good stuff, VB.
But why did you delete the original post?

mainly, after the other guy got the message, he complained about it to me.. so, in a friendships manner, i delted it..

but yea, i still like the guy.. i think i've explained myself enough this far..


virgin-burner

Sep 23, 2011, 6:04 PM
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Re: [jrmrangers] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Dont worry VB no one really like you anyway so you probably didnt lose a friend!! But good job saving his ass though!!

i know that myself mate, i'm a loner anyway, so fuck everyone that doesnt stand in my line of fire! Wink


virgin-burner

Sep 23, 2011, 6:06 PM
Post #14 of 241 (8681 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think you did is what more people should do. He may not want to be your friend any more but you sure as hell were a good friend to him.

Sparky

true, but.. being on the right side of things, doesnt mean you have the majority on YOUR side.. i still feel i'm on the RIGHT side anyway..


virgin-burner

Sep 23, 2011, 6:09 PM
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Re: [Anvilbrother] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for doing it. I don't want people going out to rat on anyone for stupid things, but if it has to do with saving myself, my friends, the reputation of my dropzone, then let um have it.

i still consider him MY friend; tough he may think i'm not - anyway, if he kept on doing what he didd, he'd be dead by now. or in another two days..

so yea, fuck it for being "nice and gentle" or having "shattered his trust - out of all places"..

i still think i'll sleep better THIS way.. Unimpressed


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Sep 23, 2011, 6:44 PM
Post #16 of 241 (8665 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Thanks for doing it. I don't want people going out to rat on anyone for stupid things, but if it has to do with saving myself, my friends, the reputation of my dropzone, then let um have it.

i still consider him MY friend; tough he may think i'm not - anyway, if he kept on doing what he didd, he'd be dead by now. or in another two days..

so yea, fuck it for being "nice and gentle" or having "shattered his trust - out of all places"..

i still think i'll sleep better THIS way.. Unimpressed

Good for you VB! This attitude needs to spread and maybe we would have less deaths and fractured tib/fibs, pelvis', etc.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 23, 2011, 8:56 PM
Post #17 of 241 (8615 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
being on the right side of things, doesnt mean you have the majority on YOUR side.

We have too many sheep in the sport already. It doesnít take any character to run with herd. We donít always agree but your actions on this say a lot about who you are.

Sparky


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Sep 24, 2011, 3:03 AM
Post #18 of 241 (8557 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
....We donít always agree but your actions on this say a lot about who you are.

Sparky

I think maybe somebody hacked his account.
LaughLaugh


virgin-burner

Sep 24, 2011, 3:52 AM
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Re: [popsjumper] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
....We donít always agree but your actions on this say a lot about who you are.

Sparky

I think maybe somebody hacked his account.
LaughLaugh

Tongue

LaughLaughLaugh

oh, sparky, i take it as a compliment!? Tongue
Smile


(This post was edited by virgin-burner on Sep 24, 2011, 3:53 AM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 24, 2011, 1:10 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
....We donít always agree but your actions on this say a lot about who you are.

Sparky

I think maybe somebody hacked his account.
LaughLaugh

Tongue

LaughLaughLaugh

oh, sparky, i take it as a compliment!? Tongue
Smile

You don't have any choice.

Sparky


virgin-burner

Sep 24, 2011, 1:40 PM
Post #21 of 241 (8472 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks! Smile

i was at the dz today for a little ceremony for some friends that are no longer with us..

got to see a couple not so pretty pictures from a shattered subtular (?) joint? it's all open, the thing is in a bag, and just after three weeks they're now going to plaster it to push the muscle back in. it looked a bit like a sausage on the side of his leg.

if you're gonna be stupid.. you gotta have to have hardened the fuck up already; today was the first day the guy could sit up and get into a wheelchair..

we're talking a guy with over a thousand jumps who should probably have known better!


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 25, 2011, 1:53 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Jump numbers do not always equate to experience or common sense. There seems to be a small segment in society that refuses to learn from the past. I think it is a combination of arrogance and ego or they are just fucking stupid. Itís always been that way and probably always will.

Sparky


skybill  (D 6009)

Sep 25, 2011, 10:43 AM
Post #23 of 241 (8344 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jump numbers do not always equate to experience or common sense. There seems to be a small segment in society that refuses to learn from the past. I think it is a combination of arrogance and ego or they are just fucking stupid. Itís always been that way and probably always will.

Sparky
Hi Mike,
'Ya seem to hit the nail square on the head!! Sad but true. Your statement goes right along with your,"You are not now nor will you ever be......"


mccordia  (D 94775)

Sep 25, 2011, 12:47 PM
Post #24 of 241 (8305 views)
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Re: Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

VB I applaud your effort, but from what I got said jumper did fly his canopy. He proudly sent me a videostil from a camera he also shouldnt be jumping.
Its a shame people dishonestly ask for a lot of advice just to get attention, and live a life online with dz.com and youtube posts showing how awesome they are for doing stupid shit.
Yet they dont see they are gloryfying their own stupidity and thereby shitting on the good intentions and friendships with people they have been asking for advice (with no intent to follow up on it).

Thank you for waisting my time Sangi. I truly hope you dont lead other jumpers onto the same 'no skills, no patience' road of shortcuts to a fatality you're seemingly proud of taking. Be proud of the gear and low jumpnumbers you listed in your profile (though you cowardly changed it back to a bigger one after reading this thread).

I blocked you on skype. Never dare ask me anything again. I know of better ways to waste my time....and dont want to be part of your immature, impatient, sad attempts at showing of and taking shortcuts with possible lethal concequences...

Id so had hoped for a bit more spine/brains...


virgin-burner

Sep 25, 2011, 1:16 PM
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Re: [mccordia] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

i'm making this shit public now.. fuck it.

Sangi, Rigless, whatever your future new name will be, u're a fucking idiot, u've lost two "mates" over the course of the last three days, i've lost my patience (again), go kill yourself or end up in hospital.. you're never gonna learn. ciao.


(This post was edited by virgin-burner on Sep 25, 2011, 1:42 PM)
Attachments: DGIT and the katana.doc (57.0 KB)


mchamp  (D 32129)

Sep 25, 2011, 9:52 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

So I'm guessing it was the same guy that was looking to buy a 99 ish sq ft reserve with such low jump #'s....and here I thought it sounded so desperate in classifieds he was joking especially with his jump number's.

Sad to see that it was actually true, but glad he's not jumping the katana 97 since obviously he needed 50 more jumps to be qualified jk


mccordia  (D 94775)

Sep 26, 2011, 5:50 AM
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Re: [mchamp] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

He did jump it....


NealFitz  (C 106601)

Sep 26, 2011, 8:38 AM
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Re: [mccordia] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

What the fuck? thats all im saying


babz  (C 107663)

Sep 26, 2011, 9:00 AM
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Re: [mccordia] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

I too have spoken to him, and tried to change his mind from jumping this canopy just yet. With no avail it would appear.

Having seen the video of this jump, I'm hoping he reconsiders jumping this canopy again until he's ready.


virgin-burner

Sep 26, 2011, 9:09 AM
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Re: [babz] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

awesome sangi jumping the katana

Crazy

maybe dont comment on it, otherwise he'll pull it again..


(This post was edited by virgin-burner on Sep 26, 2011, 9:11 AM)


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Sep 26, 2011, 1:22 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
awesome sangi jumping the katana

Crazy

maybe dont comment on it, otherwise he'll pull it again..

Not sure how many jumps he has on it now but I know not enough to be using fronts on landing like he did in that vid. This is just scary!!!


elias123  (D 108)

Sep 26, 2011, 1:45 PM
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

He now has 6 jumps on his K97. I've also tried to change his mind, but no succes here either. I hope I don't lose my friend.


(This post was edited by elias123 on Sep 26, 2011, 1:45 PM)


Rigless

Sep 26, 2011, 4:03 PM
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Re: [elias123] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, look how this turned out to be..

I'm not gonna comment on the personal aspects of this unlike some people in here, who don't value other persons trust in private matters, anyway..

Yes I did jump the Katana 97 at around 210+ jumps, yes I'm your typical 200 jump wonder..

It's not a forgiving canopy and it requires a lot of care from what I could gather from the jumps I did on it, truly a high performance canopy, but at the same time it's very rewarding and amazingly fun to fly, coming off a Safire2 129 I was lacking this fun and the Katana flight is how I imagined true canopy flight to be.. Still, not a place to let your guard down at any time..

Yes I'm cutting shortcuts, doing what most of you probably wouldn't do and don't want others to do or you might have done in the past, who knows, it's your choice.. I try to do everything in my power to not hurt others and look out for them, but the rest is my choice and I take full responsibility for my choices, as we all do.

In all honesty and fairness with no trolling I surely don't recommend what I'm doing to anyone, take your path the way you want it, take care of others, but the rest are your choices in this life.

Have fun and take care! Smile

Edit: > mchamp, no I was never looking for a 99sqft reserve, you probably mixed me with someone else, I'm pretty good with my 126 Smile

> rstanley, I think trying out double fronts is standard in canopy flight, nothing too radical here as long as you don't overdo it hehe Smile

P.S. I hope I don't whack myself like that guy did during the nationals, best wishes, hope he heals and goes a long more careful later on, but it's all up to him anyway..


(This post was edited by Rigless on Sep 26, 2011, 4:21 PM)


virgin-burner

Sep 26, 2011, 4:32 PM
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

we'll see how that goes..


Premier Remster  (C License)

Sep 26, 2011, 4:37 PM
Post #35 of 241 (3271 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, at the very least, we now have confirmation that Rigless = Sangi (not that there was much doubt anyways).


virgin-burner

Sep 26, 2011, 4:56 PM
Post #36 of 241 (3261 views)
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Re: [Remster] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

one would think that the girl he got the katana from should have given him a clue; since she femured on that wing. the way he's cranking on it, that's probably the best of possible outcomes for him.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Sep 26, 2011, 6:09 PM
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well, look how this turned out to be..

I'm not gonna comment on the personal aspects of this unlike some people in here, who don't value other persons trust in private matters, anyway..

Yes I did jump the Katana 97 at around 210+ jumps, yes I'm your typical 200 jump wonder..

It's not a forgiving canopy and it requires a lot of care from what I could gather from the jumps I did on it, truly a high performance canopy, but at the same time it's very rewarding and amazingly fun to fly, coming off a Safire2 129 I was lacking this fun and the Katana flight is how I imagined true canopy flight to be.. Still, not a place to let your guard down at any time..

Yes I'm cutting shortcuts, doing what most of you probably wouldn't do and don't want others to do or you might have done in the past, who knows, it's your choice.. I try to do everything in my power to not hurt others and look out for them, but the rest is my choice and I take full responsibility for my choices, as we all do.

In all honesty and fairness with no trolling I surely don't recommend what I'm doing to anyone, take your path the way you want it, take care of others, but the rest are your choices in this life.

Have fun and take care! Smile

Edit: > mchamp, no I was never looking for a 99sqft reserve, you probably mixed me with someone else, I'm pretty good with my 126 Smile

> rstanley, I think trying out double fronts is standard in canopy flight, nothing too radical here as long as you don't overdo it hehe Smile

P.S. I hope I don't whack myself like that guy did during the nationals, best wishes, hope he heals and goes a long more careful later on, but it's all up to him anyway..

Wrong.... nothing about touching your fronts is "standard". You are way over your head and you may "try" to do everything you can to watch out for others but the truth is..... that is not enough. You jumping a wing that you should not be jumping even in a couple of years endangers others around you. You do not have the skills so that alone is reckless not only for yourself but others in the sky with you. It's obvious you do not really care and are going to do what you want so I will now just drop this and say I hope you do not kill yourself.... I really hope you do not kill any of my friends or other jumpers!


mccordia  (D 94775)

Sep 27, 2011, 3:38 AM
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I try to do everything in my power to not hurt others and look out for them

Tell that to anyone who has been traumatized by watching someone femur in, and having to stand over your mess. Let alone the 100 other dangers your immature behaviour adds to other people.

This clearly isnt your sport...you lack any form of responsibility and vallue for your own or others lives...


shropshire  (C License)

Sep 27, 2011, 5:27 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

See - you're not ALWAYS a complete plonker ..... mateTongue

CoolCoolCool


virgin-burner

Sep 27, 2011, 5:47 AM
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Re: [shropshire] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

FUCK you tony! Tongue


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Sep 27, 2011, 6:56 AM
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In reply to:
See - you're not ALWAYS a complete plonker ..... mateTongue

CoolCoolCool

I still think somebody hacked his account.
LaughLaughLaugh

Either that or he's stocked up on blue pills.

Either that or the real VB was let out for a breath of fresh air.
Shocked


shropshire  (C License)

Sep 27, 2011, 7:08 AM
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
FUCK you tony! Tongue

Love ya too


shropshire  (C License)

Sep 27, 2011, 7:10 AM
Post #43 of 241 (3090 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

LaughLaughLaughLaugh


The real VB wouldn't know what Fresh air wasTongue


virgin-burner

Sep 27, 2011, 7:32 AM
Post #44 of 241 (3077 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

and FUCK you andy!

LaughLaughLaugh

that's it guys, i'm going back to my old self!

sangi, YOU DA MAN!!! Tongue

LaughLaughLaugh


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Sep 27, 2011, 8:34 AM
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
take your path the way you want it, take care of others, but the rest are your choices in this life.

Nice epitaph.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Sep 28, 2011, 9:30 AM
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

I watched your video. You said earlier to VB you'd just do 90's, but you cranked a 180 to final, although too high. I see, obviously, that you're jumping video too. Anything else you want to stack on?Laugh

It's not guaranteed you'll femur or die. Just the odds are going way up against you. Get some coaching and watch out for traffic in the pattern. I hope you survive. Smile


virgin-burner

Sep 28, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

check out the "tuesday evening" video on his channel, cranking 270's and having to stab out of the corner EVERY time. i think he WILL die! Smile


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Sep 28, 2011, 12:02 PM
Post #48 of 241 (2811 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

But he had learned EVERYTHING there was to know flying his old canopy! Gosh, I mean, what's a stud to do at 200 jumps but downsize?LaughLaugh

I hate to say it, but I've predicted an ash dive or two. Unsure


virgin-burner

Sep 28, 2011, 12:11 PM
Post #49 of 241 (2804 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

only took him 60 jumps too! i think he should pre-order a velocity 75 already, so he gets it when he's ready in another 50 jumps..


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Sep 28, 2011, 1:47 PM
Post #50 of 241 (2758 views)
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In reply to:
check out the "tuesday evening" video on his channel, cranking 270's and having to stab out of the corner EVERY time. i think he WILL die! Smile

Link please


virgin-burner

Sep 28, 2011, 1:55 PM
Post #51 of 241 (3833 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
check out the "tuesday evening" video on his channel, cranking 270's and having to stab out of the corner EVERY time. i think he WILL die! Smile

Link please

http://www.youtube.com/...=channel_video_title

lazy prick! Tongue


yoink

Sep 28, 2011, 2:12 PM
Post #52 of 241 (3828 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

That swooping is fucking awful.


(This post was edited by yoink on Sep 28, 2011, 2:20 PM)


virgin-burner

Sep 28, 2011, 2:32 PM
Post #53 of 241 (3811 views)
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Re: [yoink] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

apparently, it's all you need to get yourself a katana 97.. Wink


grimmie  (D 18890)

Sep 28, 2011, 3:13 PM
Post #54 of 241 (3795 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

It's all fun and games landing in that nice big grassy LZ I saw in your video.

Just wait. The time will come when you have to put that 97 down in a field between trees or a narrow road because of a bad spot. You'll be shitting yourself and crying like a little girl, wishing you had a different wing over your thick skull.

Of course then there will be the time that someone gets really close to you near the ground. You'll forget what canopy you're on and toggle whip yourself into the ground.

Or you'll eventually fly that 97 OK. You'll make it through some hairy corners and just pull it out. Your stupidity will write checks your abilities finally won't be able to cash.

I had a friend just like you once. His tree at the DZ is almost big enough to have a picnic under by now...


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Sep 28, 2011, 6:15 PM
Post #55 of 241 (3754 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post


stabbing like that out of the corner will bite him eventually


virgin-burner

Sep 28, 2011, 9:17 PM
Post #56 of 241 (3721 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

stabbing like that out of the corner will bite him eventually

YOU try to beat that into his stubborn skull - mccordia, myself AND others have done our part; and we're sick and tired of it. we just hope he wont turn into someone.. Unimpressed


clintster  (D 28851)

Sep 29, 2011, 6:19 AM
Post #57 of 241 (3661 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

 My girlfriend can swoop her Sabre 2 135 loaded at 1.1 better than that.


(This post was edited by clintster on Sep 29, 2011, 6:40 AM)


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Sep 29, 2011, 6:50 AM
Post #58 of 241 (3649 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

stabbing like that out of the corner will bite him eventually

YOU try to beat that into his stubborn skull - mccordia, myself AND others have done our part; and we're sick and tired of it. we just hope he wont turn into someone.. Unimpressed

I am just now responding because honestly that flying sucks and it pissed me off to watch. Keep stabbing it out and one day you will be in the corner too deep and not be able to pull that off and that is when you will shit yourself.


mircan  (D 32291)

Sep 29, 2011, 7:38 AM
Post #59 of 241 (3630 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
In reply to:

stabbing like that out of the corner will bite him eventually

YOU try to beat that into his stubborn skull - mccordia, myself AND others have done our part; and we're sick and tired of it. we just hope he wont turn into someone.. Unimpressed

I am just now responding because honestly that flying sucks and it pissed me off to watch. Keep stabbing it out and one day you will be in the corner too deep and not be able to pull that off and that is when you will shit yourself.

Sangi, please listen to these guys. You`re stabbing out of it every time. Like I did before I chewed Unsure It`s only matter of time...
Attachments: chew.jpg (29.2 KB)


virgin-burner

Sep 29, 2011, 7:58 AM
Post #60 of 241 (3613 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

stabbing like that out of the corner will bite him eventually

YOU try to beat that into his stubborn skull - mccordia, myself AND others have done our part; and we're sick and tired of it. we just hope he wont turn into someone.. Unimpressed

I am just now responding because honestly that flying sucks and it pissed me off to watch. Keep stabbing it out and one day you will be in the corner too deep and not be able to pull that off and that is when you will shit yourself.

you dont mean me now, do you!? Tongue


virgin-burner

Sep 29, 2011, 8:07 AM
Post #61 of 241 (3610 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

i've just seen sangi on cam, he hooked the safire back up, the katana was in a bag AND he said he'll wait until he's learned to fly that one a bit better.

the boy finally grew some BALLS!

you may still think i'm an asshole, but there will be a time you will thank me for my "public taring and feathering"..

now, everyone go and buy him a beer! Smile


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Sep 29, 2011, 11:31 AM
Post #62 of 241 (3524 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

stabbing like that out of the corner will bite him eventually

YOU try to beat that into his stubborn skull - mccordia, myself AND others have done our part; and we're sick and tired of it. we just hope he wont turn into someone.. Unimpressed

I am just now responding because honestly that flying sucks and it pissed me off to watch. Keep stabbing it out and one day you will be in the corner too deep and not be able to pull that off and that is when you will shit yourself.

you dont mean me now, do you!? Tongue

lol... no VB


virgin-burner

Sep 29, 2011, 3:30 PM
Post #63 of 241 (3443 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

yea-yea! Tongue


Rigless

Oct 1, 2011, 12:27 PM
Post #64 of 241 (3316 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Safire feels like a truck after the KA..


elias123  (D 108)

Oct 1, 2011, 2:40 PM
Post #65 of 241 (3301 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 1, 2011, 5:09 PM
Post #66 of 241 (3285 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..

Better to drive a truck than ride in a hearse. Wink

Sparky


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 1, 2011, 6:21 PM
Post #67 of 241 (3268 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Oct 1, 2011, 8:27 PM
Post #68 of 241 (3244 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.

+1


DaVinciflies

Oct 1, 2011, 9:43 PM
Post #69 of 241 (3235 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.

It's not really ONLY that is it?

It's also a larger, less elliptical, less high performance design. I know what you're trying to say, but what you DID say is false.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 2, 2011, 4:07 PM
Post #70 of 241 (3168 views)
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In reply to:
I know what you're trying to say, but what you DID say is false.

What he did say was that the guy did not know how to fly the canopy. Are you trying to say that he does?

Sparky


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 2, 2011, 4:41 PM
Post #71 of 241 (3162 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
I know what you're trying to say, but what you DID say is false.

What he did say was that the guy did not know how to fly the canopy. Are you trying to say that he does?

Sparky

He could explain a bit better what he does not know.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 2, 2011, 5:04 PM
Post #72 of 241 (3156 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.

It's not really ONLY that is it?

It's also a larger, less elliptical, less high performance design. I know what you're trying to say, but what you DID say is false.

No it's not false,
Put a decent canopy pilot on the Safire, and I guarantee it will NOT perform "like a truck".


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 2, 2011, 5:54 PM
Post #73 of 241 (3146 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.

It's not really ONLY that is it?

It's also a larger, less elliptical, less high performance design. I know what you're trying to say, but what you DID say is false.

No it's not false,
Put a decent canopy pilot on the Safire, and I guarantee it will NOT perform "like a truck".

if your comparing it to a katana.......


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 2, 2011, 6:08 PM
Post #74 of 241 (3139 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.

It's not really ONLY that is it?

It's also a larger, less elliptical, less high performance design. I know what you're trying to say, but what you DID say is false.

No it's not false,
Put a decent canopy pilot on the Safire, and I guarantee it will NOT perform "like a truck".

if your comparing it to a katana.......
do you understand what CONTEXT means?

A clown with bugger all jumps saying that his Safire (which he can't fly properly) flies like a truck compared to a Katana (that he cant fly at all), is a stupid comparison.
He does not know WHAT his Safire flies like, because HE does not fly the canopy, he merely uses it to get to the ground.
If he took the time and effort to learn how to fly A canopy PROPERLY, he'd know that it's the PILOT not the nylon that makes the difference.


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 2, 2011, 6:21 PM
Post #75 of 241 (3132 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.

It's not really ONLY that is it?

It's also a larger, less elliptical, less high performance design. I know what you're trying to say, but what you DID say is false.

No it's not false,
Put a decent canopy pilot on the Safire, and I guarantee it will NOT perform "like a truck".

if your comparing it to a katana.......
do you understand what CONTEXT means?

A clown with bugger all jumps saying that his Safire (which he can't fly properly) flies like a truck compared to a Katana (that he cant fly at all), is a stupid comparison.
He does not know WHAT his Safire flies like, because HE does not fly the canopy, he merely uses it to get to the ground.
If he took the time and effort to learn how to fly A canopy PROPERLY, he'd know that it's the PILOT not the nylon that makes the difference.

so what would you like to see him do to prove that he can fly his safire?


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 2, 2011, 6:37 PM
Post #76 of 241 (3052 views)
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In reply to:
so what would you like to see him do to prove that he can fly his safire?
about 500 jumps on itSlySlySlySly and if he is planning to do HP landings (which he clearly is)
He should be able to swoop the Safire's ring off BEFORE going to the Kat.
The Katana is NOT a canopy to LEARN HP canopy flight on


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 2, 2011, 6:57 PM
Post #77 of 241 (3045 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
so what would you like to see him do to prove that he can fly his safire?
about 500 jumps on itSlySlySlySly and if he is planning to do HP landings (which he clearly is)
He should be able to swoop the Safire's ring off BEFORE going to the Kat.
The Katana is NOT a canopy to LEARN HP canopy flight on

i agree....except for the number part Sly


Rigless

Oct 3, 2011, 1:11 AM
Post #78 of 241 (3008 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Honestly, no matter how good of a pilot you are, wingloading counts for most of it (from my experience)..

1.3 (with 10 kg lead) is horrible, yeh I know I need to eat more but this shit doesn't happen over a night..

If the WL is not enough, it won't dive, it will recover instantly, risers will be impossible to hold etc etc..

So in all honesty, these are not the most ideal conditions to progress, only "safe"...

There's a reason why all real HP flight is done over 2.0 WL...


(This post was edited by Rigless on Oct 3, 2011, 2:34 AM)


piisfish

Oct 3, 2011, 2:28 AM
Post #79 of 241 (2996 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Sangi, what about getting your hands on a slightly smaller Safire ? So you can progressively and "relatively safely" get a higher wingloading ?

and going from Safire129 to KAtana 97 Crazy Glad you took a step back. Smile


(This post was edited by piisfish on Oct 3, 2011, 2:30 AM)


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 3, 2011, 2:59 AM
Post #80 of 241 (2986 views)
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In reply to:
Honestly, no matter how good of a pilot you are, wingloading counts for most of it (from my experience)..

1.3 (with 10 kg lead) is horrible, yeh I know I need to eat more but this shit doesn't happen over a night..

If the WL is not enough, it won't dive, it will recover instantly, risers will be impossible to hold etc etc..

So in all honesty, these are not the most ideal conditions to progress, only "safe"...

There's a reason why all real HP flight is done over 2.0 WL...

Firstly you dont have enough experience to make that comment
Secondly that post demonstrates how LITTLE you actually know about Canopies and Canopy flight.
Thirdly, I dont give a fuck what you fly, just dont fly it near me or people I care about. Killing or maiming yourself wont worry me in the slightest


(This post was edited by Squeak on Oct 3, 2011, 3:00 AM)


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 3, 2011, 3:16 AM
Post #81 of 241 (2995 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There's a reason why all real HP flight is done over 2.0 WL...
FYI: any canopy which can be loaded WL 1.2 is high performance.


Rigless

Oct 3, 2011, 4:12 AM
Post #82 of 241 (2984 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sangi, what about getting your hands on a slightly smaller Safire ? So you can progressively and "relatively safely" get a higher wingloading ?

Meh.. I'm done with switching canopies, it'll have to do for now...

In reply to:
Thirdly, I dont give a fuck what you fly, just dont fly it near me or people I care about. Killing or maiming yourself wont worry me in the slightest

I'm sure my Safire wouldn't be able to glide those 13000 kilometers, so you and your friends should be fine Crazy


(This post was edited by Rigless on Oct 3, 2011, 4:17 AM)


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 3, 2011, 4:38 AM
Post #83 of 241 (2971 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Sangi, what about getting your hands on a slightly smaller Safire ? So you can progressively and "relatively safely" get a higher wingloading ?

Meh.. I'm done with switching canopies, it'll have to do for now...

In reply to:
Thirdly, I dont give a fuck what you fly, just dont fly it near me or people I care about. Killing or maiming yourself wont worry me in the slightest

I'm sure my Safire wouldn't be able to glide those 13000 kilometers, so you and your friends should be fine Crazy
i travel a lot and have friends in many countries


Rigless

Oct 3, 2011, 4:46 AM
Post #84 of 241 (2968 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure the chances of us meeting are pretty slim if any.. Wink


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 3, 2011, 10:15 AM
Post #85 of 241 (2917 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

>If the WL is not enough, it won't dive

Of course it will.

>it will recover instantly

No, it won't. It will recover faster but it will be far from instant.

>risers will be impossible to hold etc etc..

Gotta say that you really don't know what you're talking about here. Get a canopy like a Safire2 129 then jump a Safire2 169. Neither one will be "impossible to hold" (unless you _really_ need work on upper body strength that is)


Sangi

Oct 3, 2011, 11:18 AM
Post #86 of 241 (2901 views)
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Re: [billvon] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Well it's a bit of an over exaggeration of all the things mentioned, but you get the point..

Not the most ideal conditions..


wildcard451  (D License)

Oct 3, 2011, 1:42 PM
Post #87 of 241 (2873 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Safire feels like a truck after the KA..
ONLY because you DONT know how to fly it.

Well. Not true.

1) His canopy chose was fucking stupid

He wasn;t talking performance. He was talking feeling.

When I've gone back to a katana from my velo, it still performs well, however, it definitely FEELS like a sluggish, less responsive wing. I definitely know how to fly both.

By no means is he flying either wing close to performance limits.
Definitely no to the KA, and yes to a lighter loaded Safire.


I could do the opposite to you: I could strap some weights on you, and give you a VC79. You are gonna land and say "Damn, that was fast as shit." It didn't "feel" fast because you might have no idea how to fly it, it felt fast because it felt fast.

Sangi has made some dumb choices, but to rail him on a subjective opinion between two decidedly different wings is a bit of a reach.


P-dro

Oct 3, 2011, 2:35 PM
Post #88 of 241 (2852 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If the WL is not enough, it won't dive, it will recover instantly, risers will be impossible to hold etc etc..
Sorry, you are completely wrong. The proper technique can provide solutions to those "problems".... Please do learn. I watched your videos, and my eyes started to bleed, because right now your flying sucks big time.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 3, 2011, 2:41 PM
Post #89 of 241 (2845 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

>Well it's a bit of an over exaggeration of all the things mentioned, but you
>get the point..

There's no point to get. If you can't fly the same canopy in a bigger size, you're missing some very important - and very basic - skills.


Sangi

Oct 3, 2011, 6:57 PM
Post #90 of 241 (2809 views)
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In reply to:
I watched your videos, and my eyes started to bleed, because right now your flying sucks big time.

I'm sure that at 200 jumps your canopy skills were spotless, not to mention HP landings... Wink


(This post was edited by Sangi on Oct 3, 2011, 6:58 PM)


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 3, 2011, 7:29 PM
Post #91 of 241 (2798 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I watched your videos, and my eyes started to bleed, because right now your flying sucks big time.

I'm sure that at 200 jumps your canopy skills were spotless, not to mention HP landings... Wink

mine were not, but they were done properly i ended up high a bunch. get some coaching. id go back to 90s. i guarantee you once you get a good 90 down, you will be going alot farther then any of your "270's" using your current method. are you happy with the distance your getting on the 270's? wonder why your not getting distance on them?


P-dro

Oct 4, 2011, 1:03 PM
Post #92 of 241 (2716 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I watched your videos, and my eyes started to bleed, because right now your flying sucks big time.

I'm sure that at 200 jumps your canopy skills were spotless, not to mention HP landings... Wink

My canopy skills were, like today, a work in progress. I changed my canopies and my WL along the way. on each size I put 150/200 jumps, trying different models when possible like Katana 170 or Xfire 169.
I was certainly not doing HP landing, I waited after 500 jumps to try.... after 800 for more than 180, I am a pussy I admit it (but I never hurt or scared me, even in difficult landings outside the DZ....)

Beyond the obvious security reasons, the Katana is a bad canopy to learn on, because it is so ground hungry and the risers are so soft that you will always get some speed, no matter how bad your technique is.
A Crossfire is more demanding and more forgiving at the same time. You could try a 119 that could be a could compromise even if it's already a very aggressive choice (but better aggressive than suicidal).

I think you have some potential, because you haven't killed yourself even with your lousy technique. Try to explore and develop it, you'll have fun along the way and you could even become a very good canopy pilot if you don't let you ego blind and ultimately maim or kill you.


(This post was edited by P-dro on Oct 4, 2011, 1:12 PM)


elias123  (D 108)

Oct 10, 2011, 11:37 AM
Post #93 of 241 (2565 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm so glad you decided to hook up your Saffire again and put the Katana away for a while, because if you hadn't, you'd be dead right now. Heal fast my friend Frown


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Oct 10, 2011, 12:13 PM
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Re: [elias123] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Heal fast my friend Frown

He got hurt?


elias123  (D 108)

Oct 10, 2011, 12:23 PM
Post #95 of 241 (2532 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

He did.


(This post was edited by elias123 on Oct 10, 2011, 12:43 PM)


piisfish

Oct 10, 2011, 12:23 PM
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apparently he did.I heard it was a "too low initiation of a 3 figure turn"
I wish he heals well, and that he learns from it.

Now for a little humoristic note : he would have been safer on the Katana, starting from higher Tongue


virgin-burner

Oct 10, 2011, 12:39 PM
Post #97 of 241 (2517 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

exclude the puncutred lung, the femur AND the concussion (nothing new HERE! Tongue)..

let's hope he's back in some time! Smile


fanya  (D License)

Oct 10, 2011, 1:13 PM
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In reply to:
I'm so glad you decided to hook up your Saffire again and put the Katana away for a while, because if you hadn't, you'd be dead right now. Heal fast my friend Frown

Well that was quicker than I expected.


virgin-burner

Oct 10, 2011, 1:17 PM
Post #99 of 241 (2492 views)
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In reply to:
apparently he did.I heard it was a "too low initiation of a 3 figure turn"
I wish he heals well, and that he learns from it.

Now for a little humoristic note : he would have been safer on the Katana, starting from higher Tongue

right. and until it's not confirmed, let's keep speculation out of this thread, regarding his injuries, which were "only" a femur, some vertebrae, a punctured lung AND a concussion.. he seems to be alright.

let's wish him a speedy recovery and let's hope for HIS account for details.. Wink


crashtested  (D License)

Oct 10, 2011, 2:29 PM
Post #100 of 241 (2436 views)
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That is brilliant.....

Very rarely do so many warnings, advice, over pages and pages of transcripts completely get ignored to the extent of the skygod in training, actually really fucking themselves...

Maybe we could cut this thread down a bit and make it a sticky...

Well done sangi, you've done yourself proud....

I'm Glad it was only you, and not an unsuspecting victim as-well.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Oct 10, 2011, 2:30 PM
Post #101 of 241 (3071 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
apparently he did.I heard it was a "too low initiation of a 3 figure turn"
I wish he heals well, and that he learns from it.

Now for a little humoristic note : he would have been safer on the Katana, starting from higher Tongue

right. and until it's not confirmed, let's keep speculation out of this thread, regarding his injuries, which were "only" a femur, some vertebrae, a punctured lung AND a concussion.. he seems to be alright.

let's wish him a speedy recovery and let's hope for HIS account for details.. Wink


You have got to be shitting me? That was quick..... who thinks he will listen from now on? I say it is still a 50/50 shot. I hope he heals quickly and learns from this.


format  (B 15348)

Oct 10, 2011, 2:56 PM
Post #102 of 241 (3057 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Yep!

The ugly manner of the ignorant and oblivious.
Gets far into someone's shallow or deep effort.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 10, 2011, 3:47 PM
Post #103 of 241 (3023 views)
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$10 he blames the "short recovery arc" of the Safire.


yoink

Oct 10, 2011, 4:11 PM
Post #104 of 241 (3010 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
i've posted something this morning that i later on deleted; it was about a jumper in this thread with 200ish jumps that got himself a 97 katana two days ago.

not only me, but a few others, some very experienced jumpers, unlike me, expressed our concerns about his choice.

apparently, this post got noticed by someone at his dz (or it was something else maybe!?). this guy delivered a message to said jumper that if that were true he purchased a katana 97, he would not be jumping at his home-DZ with it.

i kinda feel bad about it, i personally DO NOT like ratting out on people, but having watched a lot of videos from said jumper, it was clear he would not be able to handle the katana, not only by his skills, but also with his attitude.

Thank you for being a rat. You may have saved the guy's life.

I'd call that a save - he owes you a bottle. He'd be dead if he was under the Katana.

Remi - no bet. That's a dead cert. Laugh


(This post was edited by yoink on Oct 10, 2011, 4:13 PM)


DocPop  (C License)

Oct 10, 2011, 4:47 PM
Post #105 of 241 (2990 views)
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Heal fast, Sangi, and tell us what happened when you feel up to it.


Trae  (Student)

Oct 10, 2011, 4:59 PM
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in reply to "$10 he blames the "short recovery arc" of the Safire. "
.................................

Laugh

Now how do we get these slightly uneducated newish people to realise even Safire's are too hot for them ?


Scrumpot  (D License)

Oct 10, 2011, 7:16 PM
Post #107 of 241 (2957 views)
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In reply to:
Very rarely do so many warnings, advice, over pages and pages of transcripts completely get ignored to the extent of the skygod in training, actually really fucking themselves...

Unfortunately, been seen before. Frown
Nothing "new" here. Pirate

See: The Story of Dudi

...and: HIS OWN WORDS TOO

They ALL think they are above it all somehow, or have "mad-skillz" that no one else before them has ever had, or appreciates, or has the capabilities to recognize. Unsure

Heal quickly, well and fully Dudi... ummmm, errrrr... I mean, Sangi.


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Oct 10, 2011, 7:28 PM)


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 10, 2011, 9:37 PM
Post #108 of 241 (2927 views)
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Re: [crashtested] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That is brilliant.....

Very rarely do so many warnings, advice, over pages and pages of transcripts completely get ignored to the extent of the skygod in training, actually really fucking themselves...

Maybe we could cut this thread down a bit and make it a sticky...

Well done sangi, you've done yourself proud....

I'm Glad it was only you, and not an unsuspecting victim as-well.
you could say he was Crashtested Tongue


yoink

Oct 11, 2011, 7:32 PM
Post #109 of 241 (2813 views)
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Re: [Squeak] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Just so we're clear, Sangi needs his own Incidents thread - just as people have been saying would would happen for about a year.

Who won the bounce bingo?


Lest some of you think I'm heartless, I'm pretty certain that Sangi won't learn from this - maybe some other upcoming Skygod will.


piisfish

Oct 12, 2011, 3:19 AM
Post #110 of 241 (2765 views)
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In reply to:
P.S. I hope I don't whack myself like that guy did during the nationals, best wishes, hope he heals and goes a long more careful later on, but it's all up to him anyway..
mirror mirror on the wall...


virgin-burner

Oct 12, 2011, 3:21 AM
Post #111 of 241 (2764 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
P.S. I hope I don't whack myself like that guy did during the nationals, best wishes, hope he heals and goes a long more careful later on, but it's all up to him anyway..
mirror mirror on the wall...

..who's the most broken one of all!? Tongue


castle_bravo  (C License)

Oct 12, 2011, 3:26 AM
Post #112 of 241 (2758 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

2nd hand info: Left leg femur - broke, the spine - broke, lung - contusion, heart - contusion, brain injury. Breathes by himself, but left lung drainage. Spinal surgery (either performed already or scheduled). Guys who saw it say he missed concrete/asphalt by a metre or so.


virgin-burner

Oct 12, 2011, 3:29 AM
Post #113 of 241 (2755 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
2nd hand info: Left leg femur - broke, the spine - broke, lung - contusion, heart - contusion, brain injury. Breathes by himself, but left lung drainage. Spinal surgery (either performed already or scheduled). Guys who saw it say he missed concrete/asphalt by a metre or so.

sounds worse than i initially thought.. Unsure


NealFitz  (C 106601)

Oct 12, 2011, 5:21 AM
Post #114 of 241 (2710 views)
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Re: [yoink] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just so we're clear, Sangi needs his own Incidents thread - just as people have been saying would would happen for about a year.

Who won the bounce bingo?


Lest some of you think I'm heartless, I'm pretty certain that Sangi won't learn from this - maybe some other upcoming Skygod will.

totally agree with you- i may also seem ehartless but this was a long time coming. he had "mad skillz" lets see if anyone learns from this


virgin-burner

Oct 12, 2011, 5:30 AM
Post #115 of 241 (2702 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Just so we're clear, Sangi needs his own Incidents thread - just as people have been saying would would happen for about a year.

Who won the bounce bingo?


Lest some of you think I'm heartless, I'm pretty certain that Sangi won't learn from this - maybe some other upcoming Skygod will.

totally agree with you- i may also seem ehartless but this was a long time coming. he had "mad skillz" lets see if anyone learns from this

i doubt it.. Crazy


NealFitz  (C 106601)

Oct 12, 2011, 5:36 AM
Post #116 of 241 (2695 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

wow. ignorance is fricking bliss isnt it


virgin-burner

Oct 12, 2011, 5:37 AM
Post #117 of 241 (2691 views)
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In reply to:
wow. ignorance is fricking bliss isnt it

hell knows, for some time now i believe they put something in the water to make people stupid. that additive seems to accumulate at dz's especially.. Crazy


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Oct 12, 2011, 7:29 AM
Post #118 of 241 (2620 views)
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Re: [castle_bravo] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
2nd hand info: Left leg femur - broke, the spine - broke, lung - contusion, heart - contusion, brain injury. Breathes by himself, but left lung drainage. Spinal surgery (either performed already or scheduled). Guys who saw it say he missed concrete/asphalt by a metre or so.

That is bad. I really hope he heals well and there are no long term effects but it sounds like to me he is lucky to be alive. Really sad! Even more so because so many of us warned him. Unsure


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 12, 2011, 8:38 AM
Post #119 of 241 (2573 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
2nd hand info: Left leg femur - broke, the spine - broke, lung - contusion, heart - contusion, brain injury. Breathes by himself, but left lung drainage. Spinal surgery (either performed already or scheduled). Guys who saw it say he missed concrete/asphalt by a metre or so.

That is bad. I really hope he heals well and there are no long term effects but it sounds like to me he is lucky to be alive. Really sad! Even more so because so many of us warned him. Unsure

Here's the reality check kids~ like when ya bend up the frame on a car...there's ALWAYS long term effects to something like this. He'll never be the same and will live the rest of his life out, less than he could have been had this not happened.

But at least he will live.


You HAVE to think long term effects regarding the things you do every day, you have to play it smart to get through this rodeo...when lots of people around you tell you you're NOT playin' it smart, ditch the ego and consider what they're saying.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 12, 2011, 3:48 PM
Post #120 of 241 (2443 views)
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In reply to:

You HAVE to think long term effects regarding the things you do every day, you have to play it smart to get through this rodeo...when lots of people around you tell you you're NOT playin' it smart, ditch the ego and consider what they're saying.

+1 Unsure
If I could say it better or shout it louder, I would. The problem is, there are more of him out there. There always has been and probly always will be.

Be safe!


virgin-burner

Oct 12, 2011, 4:10 PM
Post #121 of 241 (2465 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

You HAVE to think long term effects regarding the things you do every day, you have to play it smart to get through this rodeo...when lots of people around you tell you you're NOT playin' it smart, ditch the ego and consider what they're saying.

+1 Unsure
If I could say it better or shout it louder, I would. The problem is, there are more of him out there. There always has been and probly always will be.

Be safe!

just today i've heard from a guy having bought a 97 jvx "because the dollar's so cheap"; he's hitting on all the chicks at the dz, so i couldnt care less if he bounces.. Tongue


piisfish

Oct 13, 2011, 12:00 AM
Post #122 of 241 (2396 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
just today i've heard from a guy having bought a 97 jvx "because the dollar's so cheap"; he's hitting on all the chicks at the dz, so i couldnt care less if he bounces.. Tongue
I'm a taker if it is for resale Angelic


virgin-burner

Oct 13, 2011, 12:59 AM
Post #123 of 241 (2389 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
just today i've heard from a guy having bought a 97 jvx "because the dollar's so cheap"; he's hitting on all the chicks at the dz, so i couldnt care less if he bounces.. Tongue
I'm a taker if it is for resale Angelic

if you dont mind the blood-stains.. i'll try to snatch it off his shattered body if i'm around! Tongue


format  (B 15348)

Oct 13, 2011, 6:37 AM
Post #124 of 241 (2322 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The problem is, there are more of him out there. There always has been and probly always will be.

I don't think of it as a problem, rather as a way it is.
Most of people with similar mindset will survive their errors.
Out of survivors, we will admire the most successful ones, declare the champion and give them a medal.

This thread only encourage wannabe "experts in swooping progression"


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 13, 2011, 10:05 AM
Post #125 of 241 (2258 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
The problem is, there are more of him out there. There always has been and probably always will be.

I don't think of it as a problem, rather as a way it is.
Most of people with similar mindset will survive their errors.
Out of survivors, we will admire the most successful ones, declare the champion and give them a medal.

This thread only encourage wannabe "experts in swooping progression"


I disagree...I think the thread on some level is a warning to the smarter, newer jumpers who probably don't yet make the full correlation between how important it just might be to listen and weigh advice opposed listen to the ego and hope.

Your saying 'most' will survive while true doesn't look at the big picture...if ALL don't survive it's a tragic thing that should be addressed, the numbers are climbing on both death and injury.

Talking about it like this just may encourage a few people to do something different...slow down their 'progression' and let the learning curve keep up, or maybe say something to somebody you see walking the edge. If open harsh discussion has even a small effect changing 'everyone's' mindset regarding these stupid and preventable accidents we are ALL the better for it.

Most people when they think about it,
really don't wanna be the punchline of a Thinning The Herd joke.


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Oct 13, 2011, 1:32 PM)


grimmie  (D 18890)

Oct 13, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Way back before computers and DZ.com I had a great friend. Jean Guy was a Canadian jumper from Calgary. He was the nicest person in the world. He hung out in Eloy for the winters and packed, shot video and did some woodworking for me when I built the Bent Prop.
The only problem Jean Guy had was, he just wouldn't listen. His canopy skills were horrific, but he thought he knew better.
We all begged him to slow down. Myself, Dan BC, Mike McGowan, Bryan Burke, everyone.
On Ron Green's ash dive he nearly took out some jumpers on final. He got "Burked" to the student area. The regulars then started calling the student peas the Jean Guy landing area.
Jean Guy assured me he was slowing down. Then one year at Lost Prairie I watched him almost kill himself on a 270. I was so pissed at him. I told him he was going to kill himself or someone else. I didn't want to jump with him and put myself at risk. He was really upset with me, and the other jumpers from his DZ that stated the same things. He was so damned stubborn and wanted to be like the cool kids.
Well now that student landing area at Eloy is called the "Jean Guy Memorial landing area" by the oldtimers.
Jean Guy hooked himself into the ground at a boogie and died in the helicopter on the way to the hospital. That was September of 2000.
I miss him. He was a lot of fun to be around. He was a dear friend.
http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread

Slow down. This record keeps repeating itself...


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 13, 2011, 1:23 PM
Post #127 of 241 (2867 views)
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In reply to:
Jean Guy hooked himself into the ground at a boogie and died in the helicopter on the way to the hospital. That was September of 2000.
I miss him. He was a lot of fun to be around. He was a dear friend.


The ďold fartsĒ that take the time to give advice have too many memories and stories of friends who wouldnít listen and died because of it. The young guns that have the ďI know what I am doingĒ attitude havenít seen their buddies bounce 4 feet off the ground and land in a heap. Itís sad to say but some of us are here because of the lessons we gleaned from the deaths and life changing injuries of others. But we learned and survived. Itís a good thing that most jumpers move on after about 3 to 5 years or the body count would over the top.

Sparky


Trae  (Student)

Oct 14, 2011, 5:58 PM
Post #128 of 241 (2713 views)
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in reply to "The young guns that have the ďI know what I am doingĒ attitude havenít seen their buddies bounce 4 feet off the ground and land in a heap."
.........................................

Knocks the wind out of em when they do.
.. perhaps a bit of sense as well but what a hard way to learn.

A possible future for minimising canopy carnage might be to emulate the CRW pilots more so than the swoopers .
Not as highly visible as swoopers, but they have a much wider skill set.
These CRW canopy specialist guys fly meticulously matched wingloadings and standardised gear minimising undesirable canopy performance differences.
General sport skydivers fly a smattering of .....whatever.

As a highly refined (30 years of development) and therefore a less experimental facet of our sport than swooping , CRW offers a well trodden path without the same degree of carnage down the swooping lanes.

CRW is also more of a team effort than swooping and teaches consideration of others which makes it less of a stunt and more of a sport.

.


sebcat  (D 22826)

Oct 15, 2011, 1:18 PM
Post #129 of 241 (2644 views)
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Now, I wonder if someone ever hook turned and swooped a stack? (the answer is probably 'yes')That would be awesome... :)

It has more to do with personality than it has to do with the discipline itself. Some people are like Dean Moriarty when it comes to risk taking, the whole live fast and take your chances thing. It's not about understanding or managing the risks, it's more like gambling.


(This post was edited by sebcat on Oct 15, 2011, 1:19 PM)


piisfish

Oct 15, 2011, 1:49 PM
Post #130 of 241 (2623 views)
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In reply to:
Now, I wonder if someone ever hook turned and swooped a stack? (the answer is probably 'yes')That would be awesome... :).
I saw downplanes like that Shocked


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Oct 15, 2011, 2:34 PM
Post #131 of 241 (2610 views)
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Re: [crashtested] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That is brilliant.....

Very rarely do so many warnings, advice, over pages and pages of transcripts completely get ignored to the extent of the skygod in training, actually really fucking themselves...

Maybe we could cut this thread down a bit and make it a sticky...

Well done sangi, you've done yourself proud....

I'm Glad it was only you, and not an unsuspecting victim as-well.

No, it's just pretty rare that the pages and pages of warnings and advice are documented this well or are proven to be accurate so quicky.

I've been debating commenting on this, and with the number of deleted posts and warnings in the Incidents thread, I'll do it here.

First off, I'm sorry he got hurt. But he was warned. VB risked losing him as a friend in order not to have him get hurt (in vain as it turned out, but the effort was there).

His comments about not fearing death indicate to me that he refused to believe that he was going to get hurt. He wouldn't admit it, probably not even to himself, but he believed deep in his heart that he was too good to die.
He's not the first one I've seen this in (including myself). Most of us are immortal for a period of time, usually late teens to early twenties. Some have harder lessons than others, some only have a second or two left in their life to realize it.
I had a friend biff hard enough to break bones earlier this year. One week after being warned he was pushing too hard. He may or may not have learned his lesson. It's a bit early to tell. Indications are mixed. I have to decide how much I can and am willing to do in order to keep him from getting hurt again. It may cost me our friendship, and even that may not be enough to keep him from hurting or killing himself.

This isn't new or limited to skydiving. Some people realize the risks, take the time and put forth the effort to become competent and end up doing well. Others...
Not so much. They don't have the patience to put in the work. They are looking for the "rush" of doing dangerous stuff without realizing how dangerous it really is. Sangi's posting history shows (to me at least) that he had very little appreciation for the risks in the stuff he was doing and wanted to do.

It was "cool" or "fun" or a "rush", but not really dangerous. Not in any way that would really affect him.
Well, he's going to have to live with the effects of those choices. For the rest of his life. Like 'Twardo noted, you don't come back all the way from these kinds of injuries.


Muffie  (A License)

Oct 15, 2011, 4:22 PM
Post #132 of 241 (2584 views)
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In reply to:
His comments about not fearing death indicate to me that he refused to believe that he was going to get hurt. He wouldn't admit it, probably not even to himself, but he believed deep in his heart that he was too good to die.

Or maybe he was thinking he was either going to die or pull it off and if he was dead, then it was over and if he pulled it off then he'd get the rush.

I've been thinking about this for a bit now and Sangi's incident brought it to the forefront in my mind. When I entered the sport I knew there was a risk of dying no matter what you did (plane crashes happen each year), but I was ok with that risk. I'm single and I don't have so much as a plant that relies on my continued existence. I don't want to die and I'm sure there are people who would miss me (hopefully), but if I did die it'd be over. It was when I started to realize the number of busted pelvises, snapped femurs, etc. that my perspective started to change, because what I don't want is to be laid up in a hospital for six months and unable to walk properly for the rest of my life. And I don't want to have to put that kind of burden on the people around me or find myself alone in a moment like that because none of them can take it.

Now, I'm not into rapid canopy progression or doing crazy stupid shit on my jumps, so I'm not exactly the target population for these types of "interventions" but maybe we need to quit telling guys who are pushing too hard too fast that they might die and instead talk to them about the jumpers who are in wheelchairs, brain damaged, have lost limbs, etc. Maybe we should emphasize instead the life changing consequences of surviving accidents like this.

Instead of seeing it as go big or die it might help if they see it as taking a little extra time to learn the right skills vs. living the rest of their life looking at the sky and wishing they could jump but not being able to.


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Oct 16, 2011, 1:03 AM
Post #133 of 241 (2528 views)
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As a highly refined (30 years of development) and therefore a less experimental facet of our sport than swooping , CRW offers a well trodden path without the same degree of carnage down the swooping lanes.

CRW is also more of a team effort than swooping and teaches consideration of others which makes it less of a stunt and more of a sport.

While CReW definitely focuses on the finer points of canopy control, the landings are not much emphasised. And let's not kid ourselves, the landing remains the most important part of any jump.

Besides, nowadays the wingload for the best CReW teams is what; 2.0? 2.4?

CReW is certainly heaps of fun if us pups take the right approach to learn it. However, if people take the Sangi approach to CReW, you're looking at a double fatality in the making.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Oct 16, 2011, 12:01 PM
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In reply to:
maybe we need to quit telling guys who are pushing too hard too fast that they might die and instead talk to them about the jumpers who are in wheelchairs, brain damaged, have lost limbs, etc. Maybe we should emphasize instead the life changing consequences of surviving accidents like this.

I've been thinking about this point, and it's interesting, but in the end I have to admit I don't buy it.

These guys (and they are all guys) aren't really unafraid of death. Not even Sangi, who claimed he's not scared of death. They just really do genuinely believe it won't happen to them. It's hard to be frightened of something that just happens to other people, maybe people less talented or quick on the draw. People they don't even know - guys on the internet, people who died or maimed themselves in some abstract other place.

A lot of them don't even know what death or horrible injury is, not in a real way.

I fear changing the message it to "horrific injury" won't change the end result. The trick is not describing consequences they're going to be scared of, it's somehow convincing them that they're not immune in the first place.


(This post was edited by Joellercoaster on Oct 16, 2011, 12:02 PM)


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Oct 16, 2011, 12:16 PM
Post #135 of 241 (2455 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
maybe we need to quit telling guys who are pushing too hard too fast that they might die and instead talk to them about the jumpers who are in wheelchairs, brain damaged, have lost limbs, etc. Maybe we should emphasize instead the life changing consequences of surviving accidents like this.

I've been thinking about this point, and it's interesting, but in the end I have to admit I don't buy it.

These guys (and they are all guys) aren't really unafraid of death. Not even Sangi, who claimed he's not scared of death. They just really do genuinely believe it won't happen to them. It's hard to be frightened of something that just happens to other people, maybe people less talented or quick on the draw. People they don't even know - guys on the internet, people who died or maimed themselves in some abstract other place.

A lot of them don't even know what death or horrible injury is, not in a real way.

I fear changing the message it to "horrific injury" won't change the end result. The trick is not describing consequences they're going to be scared of, it's somehow convincing them that they're not immune in the first place.

This is a lot of what I meant. These types may claim that they aren't afraid of death, but it's really that they don't believe it will happen to them. Others perhaps, but not them.

It's well known in flying, fast cars and motorcycles (and in skydiving of course).
You see a lot of this type quit after an injury, a close call, or seeing someone near them get hurt or killed. A few of them will actually admit that while they thought they understood the risks, it took that close call or injury or whatever to pound home how dangerous what they were doing was.


daremrc  (D 29924)

Oct 18, 2011, 8:51 AM
Post #136 of 241 (2315 views)
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This is the second thread I can think of where we have someone being told that they may not have the mad skillz that they think they have, and then they pound in. At least Sangi is still around.... Maybe we can make a sticky and hope that these two documented cases convince someone to slow it up a bit...

The Setup: http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1111481#1111481

The Incident: http://www.dropzone.com/...ng=xenia%20;#2346556


hokierower  (B 36150)

Oct 18, 2011, 10:27 AM
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In reply to:
This is the second thread I can think of where we have someone being told that they may not have the mad skillz that they think they have, and then they pound in. At least Sangi is still around.... Maybe we can make a sticky and hope that these two documented cases convince someone to slow it up a bit...

The Setup: http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1111481#1111481

The Incident: http://www.dropzone.com/...ng=xenia%20;#2346556

Wow. All I can say to that. Read through both threads. It's amazing how history keeps repeating itself and the guilty parties never believe it will happen to them.


piisfish

Oct 19, 2011, 12:45 AM
Post #138 of 241 (2211 views)
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In reply to:
This is the second thread I can think of where we have someone being told that they may not have the mad skillz that they think they have, and then they pound in. At least Sangi is still around....
there are far more than that. Unfortunately.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Oct 19, 2011, 6:33 AM
Post #139 of 241 (2159 views)
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In reply to:
there are far more than that. Unfortunately.

Maybe we should start a "catalog" thread of them. Then make it a sticky. "Those who thought they all knew better" or are/were different/better somehow, or some such. - That way, the reader(s) we are trying to get through to can maybe find via perusing the MULTITUDE of them, which one(s) (traits/characteristics) he/she best/most identifies with - and SEE (come to their own individual applicable epiphany's) THEMSELVES?

You're right. The history and pages of DZ.com (and rec.dot before it) are literally littered with these Unsure - But there exists no good single place/search source to quickly/easily reference them. Maybe a links catalog might actually help.


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Oct 19, 2011, 6:34 AM)


Ron

Oct 19, 2011, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Maybe we should start a "catalog" thread of them.

I used to have a list of "Dead men jumping" that later died or got seriously broken. My computer crashed and I lost it..... But I can tell you the list was much longer than you would think.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Oct 20, 2011, 8:15 PM
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In reply to:
Quote:
Maybe we should start a "catalog" thread of them.

I used to have a list of "Dead men jumping" that later died or got seriously broken. My computer crashed and I lost it..... But I can tell you the list was much longer than you would think.

So sad Unsure


Squeak  (E 1313)

Oct 20, 2011, 8:45 PM
Post #142 of 241 (1986 views)
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In reply to:
Quote:
Maybe we should start a "catalog" thread of them.

I used to have a list of "Dead men jumping" that later died or got seriously broken. My computer crashed and I lost it..... But I can tell you the list was much longer than you would think.

Was I on it Smile


Krip  (Student)

Oct 21, 2011, 12:13 AM
Post #143 of 241 (1950 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Jean Guy hooked himself into the ground at a boogie and died in the helicopter on the way to the hospital. That was September of 2000.
I miss him. He was a lot of fun to be around. He was a dear friend.


The ďold fartsĒ that take the time to give advice have too many memories and stories of friends who wouldnít listen and died because of it. The young guns that have the ďI know what I am doingĒ attitude havenít seen their buddies bounce 4 feet off the ground and land in a heap. Itís sad to say but some of us are here because of the lessons we gleaned from the deaths and life changing injuries of others. But we learned and survived. Itís a good thing that most jumpers move on after about 3 to 5 years or the body count would over the top.

Sparky

Hi Mr Sparky

I can understand a some folks not wanting to listen to the old farts, what do they know anywayUnsure

But the incidents forum has all the objective info of all the ways to date of how people have killed and maimed themselves, includeing the latest trend of not only hurting themselves but other jumpers in the air and on the ground.

Don't want to get hurt really really bad, don't do the stupid shit that the other guys/gals did to get really really hurt.

IMO minor injuries are part of skydiving but the latest trend of injuries is just using poor judgement and is even selfish when they hurt someone else.

USPA is going to do anything to stop the carnage, most of the GMDZO won't do anything to prevent it. There is a solution to this self induced problem.

IMO The fun jumper skydivng community needs to start policing themselves rather than relying on the industry to do their job.Unsure

I think thats one of the reasons there's lots of "Teams" not only for competion purposes but to protect themselves from jumping with the people that may harm them.

R.
To bad they don't include all the people that walk with a pe


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 21, 2011, 3:34 AM
Post #144 of 241 (1923 views)
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Quote:
USPA is going to do anything to stop the carnage, most of the GMDZO won't do anything to prevent it. There is a solution to this self induced problem.

IMO The fun jumper skydivng community needs to start policing themselves rather than relying on the industry to do their job.

Did you mean to say that the USPA is not going to do anything?

My rules might be different than yours. Are you sure you want me to police your actions?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 21, 2011, 9:16 AM
Post #145 of 241 (1841 views)
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Re: [craigbey] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

>My rules might be different than yours. Are you sure you want me to police your actions?

He probably does. He can ignore you.

Keep in mind that 99% of the people who are calling for safer skies mean "I want everyone else to stop doing stupid shit, while I take my carefully considered, well thought out risks." Thus they support plans that will not affect them.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 21, 2011, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
>My rules might be different than yours. Are you sure you want me to police your actions?

He probably does. He can ignore you.

Keep in mind that 99% of the people who are calling for safer skies mean "I want everyone else to stop doing stupid shit, while I take my carefully considered, well thought out risks." Thus they support plans that will not affect them.

I agree, he can ignore me if I try to police his actions. That was part of my point, and I suspect that it was also part of his.

But without an established standard, how do you know if my rules are more or less strict? I may not tolerate certain behaviors that he engages in when flying his canopy. I may choose to take it up with him or the DZ when he does something that I consider dangerous. Am I wrong?

His point was that we need to police ourselves. We do that now ... very poorly. If he wants to make a difference, he needs to come up with a more specific way for us to 'police ourselves' that helps reduce the carnage that he is so worried about.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 21, 2011, 10:33 AM
Post #147 of 241 (1800 views)
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Re: [craigbey] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

>I may choose to take it up with him or the DZ when he does something
>that I consider dangerous. Am I wrong?

In his eyes, yes. Look at VirginBurner - every person who has tried to get him to slow down is wrong in his eyes.

>he needs to come up with a more specific way for us to 'police
>ourselves' that helps reduce the carnage that he is so worried about.

Agreed. That can really only come from DZO's, since they are the only people that skydivers are obliged to listen to.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 21, 2011, 11:13 AM
Post #148 of 241 (1789 views)
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Quote:
That can really only come from DZO's, since they are the only people that skydivers are obliged to listen to.

Them and those fine people in the front of the plane with the cards that say FAA on them.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 21, 2011, 12:04 PM
Post #149 of 241 (1764 views)
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In reply to:
Agreed. That can really only come from DZO's, since they are the only people that skydivers are obliged to listen to.

Thatís what I have been saying all along. USPA, S&TAíS, instructors, none of them have the ability or authority to enforce squat. Only the DZOís can control what happens at their DZ.

Sparky


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 21, 2011, 3:46 PM
Post #150 of 241 (1723 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Agreed. That can really only come from DZO's, since they are the only people that skydivers are obliged to listen to.

Thatís what I have been saying all along. USPA, S&TAíS, instructors, none of them have the ability or authority to enforce squat. Only the DZOís can control what happens at their DZ.

Sparky

The S&TA where i jump stopped me from jumping my canopy. I had to go elsewhere for a couple months.

BTW im just sharing that for the sole purpose of letting people know that downsizing is policed at alot of places.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 21, 2011, 3:47 PM
Post #151 of 241 (2666 views)
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Quote:
I had to go elsewhere for a couple months.

Well, that system worked perfectly!


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 21, 2011, 3:58 PM
Post #152 of 241 (2656 views)
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In reply to:
Quote:
I had to go elsewhere for a couple months.

Well, that system worked perfectly!

ha good point.


Trae  (Student)

Oct 21, 2011, 4:11 PM
Post #153 of 241 (2651 views)
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in reply to "Well, that system worked perfectly!"
.................................

It worked perfectly well for the DZ that said NO to him.
One DZ gets peace in the sky the other gets the wobbly newbie know it all.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 21, 2011, 4:13 PM
Post #154 of 241 (2645 views)
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Re: [Trae] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
in reply to "Well, that system worked perfectly!"
.................................

It worked perfectly well for the DZ that said NO to him.
One DZ gets peace in the sky the other gets the wobbly newbie know it all.

I think that was my point... Sorry, everyone should know 99% of what I post has a tinge of sarcasm in it... Wink


(This post was edited by Remster on Oct 21, 2011, 7:34 PM)


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 22, 2011, 7:54 AM
Post #155 of 241 (2601 views)
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Re: [Trae] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
in reply to "Well, that system worked perfectly!"
.................................

It worked perfectly well for the DZ that said NO to him.
One DZ gets peace in the sky the other gets the wobbly newbie know it all.

Devils Advocate here....
Thus you have safe, conservative DZ's, and you have edgy, wild hair DZ's. Pic your poison?

Maybe all is well in dreamland? Cool


Sangi

Oct 22, 2011, 8:10 AM
Post #156 of 241 (2595 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Guys,

2 weeks ago I almost died doing a 270, way too low way too aggressive.

I had to be reanimated and now I have shit loads of titanium in my spine and left leg. Right now I still can't feel or control my legs and I'm still in hospital with long road of rehab in front of me. I'll walk though, so I won't stay crippled forever.. It's a miracle I survived overall, I should be dead now..

You were all right and I suck, I almost killed myself and I might have killed someone else too, I have learned my lesson, I long to and I will be back in the sky but never as I was before..

I think I can now surely say I have learned my lesson. Frown


yoink

Oct 22, 2011, 12:06 PM
Post #157 of 241 (2572 views)
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Glad you're alive to say that. It takes some people tougher lessons than others. Wink You're on the mend though, and that's what matters.

NEVER forget what you're feeling at the moment. It'll make you a better jumper when you do return. If you need to, write a couple of pages in your logbook now about how much it sucks and how much pain you're in and how foolish you're feeling... You can read back to yourself in 2 or 3 years when you're starting to think about small canopies again to provide a personal point of reference - it's really useful.

Now, tell it to VirginBurner - he saved your life. Do the same for him.


Edit: By the way - I think you owe me beer for your bounce bingo. WinkLaughLaughLaugh


(This post was edited by yoink on Oct 22, 2011, 12:08 PM)


Waldschrat

Oct 22, 2011, 12:43 PM
Post #158 of 241 (2559 views)
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In reply to:
Guys,

2 weeks ago I almost died doing a 270, way too low way too aggressive.

I had to be reanimated

Why exactly?


Waldschrat

Oct 22, 2011, 3:12 PM
Post #159 of 241 (2522 views)
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Re: [Waldschrat] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry a little dorkish question here, better i ask per pm.

I have another name on youtube, so the secound time: I wish you a recovery, you can live with, really! Smile


Sangi

Oct 23, 2011, 1:07 PM
Post #160 of 241 (2438 views)
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Re: [Waldschrat] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Saw my crashvid today. It's brutal.

Hearing yourself gag, gasp, suffocate in agony and cling to every bit of life you got is not fun at all..

I doubt I'll swoop again, because I NEVER EVER want to experience this again.. it's hell Frown
Attachments: aftercrash - Copy.jpg (293 KB)
  Fucked up Me - Copy.jpg (121 KB)


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Oct 23, 2011, 3:00 PM
Post #161 of 241 (2434 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Saw my crashvid today. It's brutal.

Hearing yourself gag, gasp, suffocate in agony and cling to every bit of life you got is not fun at all..

I doubt I'll swoop again, because I NEVER EVER want to experience this again.. it's hell Frown

Glad you lived through it.

Life often grants us opportunities in the strangest form. Seize it.

Heal fast.

Blues,
Ian


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 23, 2011, 3:56 PM
Post #162 of 241 (2412 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Saw my crashvid today. It's brutal.

Hearing yourself gag, gasp, suffocate in agony and cling to every bit of life you got is not fun at all..

I doubt I'll swoop again, because I NEVER EVER want to experience this again.. it's hell Frown

That hurt just to look at that picture. Hope you heal up quick. You gonna share the video?


Blamey  (A 56669)

Oct 23, 2011, 4:15 PM
Post #163 of 241 (2404 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting. Would love to hear more details about the day, injuries ect.

Glad you're gonna be okay.


chutem  (A 45827)

Oct 23, 2011, 4:39 PM
Post #164 of 241 (2397 views)
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Glad to have you back. I've not jumped in 4 years due to a surprise late in life child. It wasn't right for me (as in personal decision) to risk my new young childs future of having a father. I'll come back when he's older. I surf DZ.com everyday to live/jump through others experiences. It isn't jumping but beats no connection with jumping.

That picture hurt from here.

Hang in there and keep posting. There will be many new swoopers pushing things that need to hear your story.

Heal fast and best wishes,

James

PS Bust VB's balls about upsizing and taking it slow.


(This post was edited by chutem on Oct 23, 2011, 4:41 PM)


yoink

Oct 23, 2011, 7:13 PM
Post #165 of 241 (2357 views)
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In reply to:
You gonna share the video?


That comes across as a fairly twisted question... Why would you want anyone to see it? Are you asking because you want to watch it?
There's absolutely nothing to learn from it.

Too much attempted without enough experience. Turned too low, didn't dig out in time and the results are in the pictures.

1+1=2. It's not rocket science.

Newbies could watch all the bounce videos in the world and they'd still be convinced it couldn't happen to them.


(This post was edited by yoink on Oct 23, 2011, 7:14 PM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 23, 2011, 8:27 PM
Post #166 of 241 (2336 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Saw my crashvid today. It's brutal.

Hearing yourself gag, gasp, suffocate in agony and cling to every bit of life you got is not fun at all..

I doubt I'll swoop again, because I NEVER EVER want to experience this again.. it's hell Frown

How in the hell did you get your legs to do than? Crazy Heel fast kid, you have some things to pass on to others.

Sparky


virgin-burner

Oct 24, 2011, 12:20 AM
Post #167 of 241 (2299 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

just had a little chat with him again, but he had to go. i'll call again later.

it's pretty much how i posted in his incident-thread. low 270į and just froze and kept on going on his fronts. still had time to save but didnt do anything he says. doesnt know why..

oh, and some good news, today he said he could feel his legs a bit, but still no movement; so he's making a little progress. i'm happy about that! Smile


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Oct 24, 2011, 3:32 AM
Post #168 of 241 (2271 views)
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Re: [yoink] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You gonna share the video?


That comes across as a fairly twisted question... Why would you want anyone to see it? Are you asking because you want to watch it?
There's absolutely nothing to learn from it.

That's not true, unfortunately.

One of the very biggest problems with the Mad Skillz set is that the danger is not real to them. They say "oh I understand the risks" but really, they don't. They can't. It's an abstract thing, something that happens to other people - something that is just words.

Seeing and hearing someone hook in is one hard way it gets brought home. Seeing first-person video might be another.

By the way Sangi, we haven't met in person but we've crossed paths in the past elsewhere. I'm very, very glad you're alive. Heal fast, and I hope to see you skydiving somewhere one day.


Sangi

Oct 24, 2011, 3:49 AM
Post #169 of 241 (2260 views)
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Thanks all.

Regarding what injuries I had, read up some pages before, there was a guy who posted them (my friend).

About the vid, will defo post it, seeing how much it sucks to crash is good for the newbies, but not soon, because I'm in a hospital with shit pocket net, can't even watch youtube..

During the crash I did a very very slow 270 from around 120-130 meters, it wasn't enough height for the canopy to recover on it's own, I don't know why I didn't hit the brakes, because if I would have I would be perfectly fine now, I probably thought it will still recover during the last seconds and I will get a kickass swoop, no kickass swoop, but some major kickass crash for sure.. Unsure


(This post was edited by Sangi on Oct 24, 2011, 3:59 AM)
Attachments: BeforeImpact - Copy.jpg (283 KB)


holie  (A License)

Oct 24, 2011, 3:51 AM
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Hey, welcome back dude :-)


SRI85  (D License)

Oct 24, 2011, 4:42 AM
Post #171 of 241 (2234 views)
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Re: [yoink] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You gonna share the video?


That comes across as a fairly twisted question... Why would you want anyone to see it? Are you asking because you want to watch it?
There's absolutely nothing to learn from it.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/sofpidarf/


(This post was edited by SRI85 on Oct 24, 2011, 4:43 AM)


sebcat  (D 22826)

Oct 24, 2011, 9:05 AM
Post #172 of 241 (2161 views)
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Is that gray stuff concrete?

Heal fast.


buff  (D 30567)

Oct 24, 2011, 10:09 AM
Post #173 of 241 (2123 views)
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Was this on the Katana 97 or the Safire 129?


virgin-burner

Oct 24, 2011, 10:42 AM
Post #174 of 241 (2112 views)
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safire


yoink

Oct 24, 2011, 10:44 AM
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Safire - the Katana was white IIRC.


virgin-burner

Oct 24, 2011, 11:05 AM
Post #176 of 241 (3292 views)
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grey and red outer cells or something..


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Oct 24, 2011, 2:03 PM
Post #177 of 241 (3249 views)
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Welcoming our newest member to the Heavy Metal Skydiving Club.

Being a member has no direct benefits but it beats the alternative, although there might be times you come to question that construct.

I hope you heal well and remember the lessons.

BS


hokierower  (B 36150)

Oct 24, 2011, 2:24 PM
Post #178 of 241 (3229 views)
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Looking at that picture of the before, were there any additional rotations before impacting? I wouldn't think it possible, and if not, holy shit, you went almost straight down and are really lucky to have missed the really unforgiving gray stuff.

I'd recommend reading the book Deep Survival (http://www.amazon.com/...s-Dies/dp/0393326152), since from what you're saying you froze at a critical moment and trusted the world to "right itself". This book goes into detail about those types of situations and examines the relationship between why some people "make it through" and some people don't. It is VERY interesting.

Heal fast, don't skimp on rehab, and get back on the horse.


(This post was edited by hokierower on Oct 24, 2011, 2:29 PM)


format  (B 15348)

Oct 24, 2011, 3:13 PM
Post #179 of 241 (3193 views)
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In reply to:
since from what you're saying you froze at a critical moment and trusted the world to "right itself"

I've too read what he's said:
Quote:
it wasn't enough height for the canopy to recover on it's own...
I probably thought it will still recover during the last seconds


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Oct 24, 2011, 3:58 PM
Post #180 of 241 (3168 views)
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Quote:
I don't know why I didn't hit the brakes

This, to me, is the major thing to focus on during your recovery.

"I don't know why I didn't do the one thing that would have possibly saved me from breaking myself" translates to "I don't have enough experience for the right thing to do to be automatic."

This is exactly why you were being cautioned to put in more jumps, more time, more effort, more patience on larger and more forgiving wings. It's so that "what to do" becomes almost automatic.

I think back to when I first learned to drive. Situations that wouldn't cause me to blink an eye now were overwhelming in their sensory overload. I got into (relatively minor) accidents then because I didn't have the experience behind the wheel to be able to anticipate, to think ahead, and to react instinctively (in the correct way) that I have now. That's not to say that I believe I'm invincible now, after 25 years of driving, but I do have instincts that will both keep me out of the close calls and get me out of them as safely as possible. But like you, at 16 it took my first accident for me to realize that my parents were wise in trying to limit my driving to relatively controlled situations, so that I could take the time to build up that instinct that is born from experience.


normiss  (D 28356)

Oct 24, 2011, 6:46 PM
Post #181 of 241 (3119 views)
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I'm glad you're here to discuss this with us Sangi.
I'm very impressed with the way you "manned up" to the community here on dizzie.

Best wishes on a speedy recovery and a safe return and progression back into the sky you clearly love so much.


Sangi

Oct 25, 2011, 8:04 AM
Post #182 of 241 (2959 views)
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Thank you all again. I fucked up and there's no one else to blame but myself, I was warned numerous times by dz.com and my own real skydiving friends.. Coming to think of it, this incident was only a matter of time, I just wanted to look cool fast disregarding everything and hoping that the shit will never happen to me or I'll luck out of it every time.. If only I would've realized how wrong I was back then, but this crash changed my mindset about allot of thing completely..

The gray area was pavement and I missed it by a meter or so, looking at my impact during the vid, if I would've hit the pavement I'd be dead instantly, I got very very lucky.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Oct 25, 2011, 9:20 AM
Post #183 of 241 (2920 views)
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This post, along with the photo of your broken femur, should be made a sticky.
Good stuff for young and old jumpers alike. Listen to advice.

Nice job manning up with this post. I have seen some jumpers wreck themselves and still blame everyone/thing else.

I hope you heal well and truly wish you the best.

You're in luck. Chics dig swoopers, but they dig scars even more.Wink


Blamey  (A 56669)

Oct 25, 2011, 11:27 PM
Post #184 of 241 (2779 views)
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I really am glad you will recover. I had a friend who wasn't as lucky. Similar story to you but he wasn't quite as cocky. Unfortunately I don't think he had as many people looking out for him as you did and he was flying a crossfire with a wing-loading over 1.5.

The problem is nobody was actively telling him to slow down (at least not as far as I saw) and at around 500 jumps he fucked up a swoop, injured his C5 and is now paralyzed from the chest down. His problem was he was always the guy who picked u things quicker than anybody else. Best Climber/ Snowboarder ect in our group. So when he was progressing faster than others nobody said anything. Not sure if it would have matterd but I wish I hadknown more as I would have said something. VB saved you. and you got lucky by a few feet. Lots to consider.

Hope the healing goes well. Keeps us updated, you are very famous now.


mccordia  (D 94775)

Oct 26, 2011, 10:56 AM
Post #185 of 241 (2678 views)
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Also compliments from this side for owing up to your own mistakes.
I hope Christoph/Virgin-Burner is taking notes and learning a thing or two himself as well...


Sangi

Oct 26, 2011, 11:18 PM
Post #186 of 241 (2520 views)
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Hey Jarno, thanks Smile

I quit swooping. When I'm fully healed and back in the sky I plan on buying a wingsuit, I always wanted to do that Smile


mccordia  (D 94775)

Oct 27, 2011, 1:59 AM
Post #187 of 241 (2492 views)
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Make a good 50 or more jumps to get current on freefall and go way/well beyond, show yourself to be a safe jumper, and Ill gladly be the one who takes you up for your first flight...


Ron

Oct 27, 2011, 7:30 AM
Post #188 of 241 (2390 views)
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Quote:
Thank you all again. I fucked up and there's no one else to blame but myself, I was warned numerous times by dz.com and my own real skydiving friends.. Coming to think of it, this incident was only a matter of time, I just wanted to look cool fast disregarding everything and hoping that the shit will never happen to me or I'll luck out of it every time.. If only I would've realized how wrong I was back then, but this crash changed my mindset about allot of thing completely..

The gray area was pavement and I missed it by a meter or so, looking at my impact during the vid, if I would've hit the pavement I'd be dead instantly, I got very very lucky.

Bravo.... I do wish you would have learned this one jump before. But thankfully you were able to learn it.


Sangi

Oct 28, 2011, 5:59 AM
Post #189 of 241 (2258 views)
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Here's a quick crap quality vid of my crash..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF578oSkrKk


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 28, 2011, 6:04 AM
Post #190 of 241 (2249 views)
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Ouch.


normiss  (D 28356)

Oct 28, 2011, 6:55 AM
Post #191 of 241 (2214 views)
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Dammit Sangi.

You couldn't be luckier than simply being alive.
I'm glad you're still with us.
Cool


charlie5  (A 62022)

Oct 28, 2011, 9:12 AM
Post #192 of 241 (2146 views)
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In reply to:
The gray area was pavement and I missed it by a meter or so, looking at my impact during the vid, if I would've hit the pavement I'd be dead instantly, I got very very lucky.

Yeah, that pavement had me nervous from the get go, you are so very lucky you missed it by a couple feet.

Live and learn


trigger  (D 101390)

Oct 28, 2011, 9:26 AM
Post #193 of 241 (2135 views)
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Glad you're still here.
Hope your video can serve as warning to others in regards to, just take your time and progress slowly in this discipline as accidents happen very quickly indeed. VB take note, seriously.


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 28, 2011, 9:34 AM
Post #194 of 241 (2128 views)
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In reply to:
Here's a quick crap quality vid of my crash..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF578oSkrKk

Just curious, do you have the toggle in your hand between the risers?


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Oct 28, 2011, 9:38 AM
Post #195 of 241 (2123 views)
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Sangi.... your turnaround in attitude has taken the fun out of a lot of threads here on the DZ.com. Wink Hopefully, it will also translate into less incident reports? Heal fast. Smile


nigel99  (D 1)

Oct 28, 2011, 9:43 AM
Post #196 of 241 (2113 views)
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In reply to:
Sangi.... your turnaround in attitude has taken the fun out of a lot of threads here on the DZ.com. Wink Hopefully, it will also translate into less incident reports? Heal fast. Smile

Nah, wait for next season to start. We'll have another poster attacking Sangi and Docpop of being canopy nazi's who just don't understand how things work.

I hope he heals quick that video was scary.


charlie5  (A 62022)

Oct 28, 2011, 10:38 AM
Post #197 of 241 (2085 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

What went through you head the moment you realized you were gonna impact?


NealFitz  (C 106601)

Oct 28, 2011, 11:27 AM
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Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

fuckFrown


Sangi

Oct 28, 2011, 12:15 PM
Post #199 of 241 (2027 views)
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In reply to:
Just curious, do you have the toggle in your hand between the risers?

Yes, I always hold my toggles in my hands during HP landings.

In reply to:
What went through you head the moment you realized you were gonna impact?

Honestly I can't remember that point when the ground was coming at me so I can't say for sure but I believe I wasn't going to impact and that the safire will eventually recover because of it's short arc, I was wrong, because I changed my turn and made that arc much longer than I'm used to, but I didn't realize it then..


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 28, 2011, 12:21 PM
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In reply to:
Here's a quick crap quality vid of my crash..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF578oSkrKk
This is ugly...Crazy


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 28, 2011, 2:06 PM
Post #201 of 241 (3039 views)
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In reply to:
Here's a quick crap quality vid of my crash..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF578oSkrKk

That scared the crap out me and Iím fearless. Wink

Sparky


airtwardo  (D License)

Oct 28, 2011, 2:34 PM
Post #202 of 241 (3024 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Just curious, do you have the toggle in your hand between the risers?

Yes, I always hold my toggles in my hands during HP landings.

No I was refering to what appeared to me that you had the toggle going between the risers and then over your hand...I don't swoop so I'm not making a comment either way other than that I don't personally put my hand through the risers...then again I don't put the toggle over my hand either...and I know swoopers are supposed to do that.

I was just kinda asking if that was planned and normal or just how it ends up sometimes....?


david3  (D 21297)

Oct 28, 2011, 5:22 PM
Post #203 of 241 (2984 views)
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In reply to:
What went through you head the moment you realized you were gonna impact?

His femur...?


Too soon?


Glad you are going to be okay Sangi.


PiLFy  (A License)

Oct 28, 2011, 5:34 PM
Post #204 of 241 (2978 views)
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That was freakin brutal to even watch...

Sangi, I think you should post the uncut video, along w/your list of injuries. Hearing you gasp for breath, & others trying to attend to you, may help keep some other young hotshots from hurting themselves.

I hope you eventually make a full recovery, Sangi. I'm sorry this happened to you.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Oct 30, 2011, 1:29 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Sangi.... your turnaround in attitude has taken the fun out of a lot of threads here on the DZ.com. Wink Hopefully, it will also translate into less incident reports? Heal fast. Smile

Nah, wait for next season to start. We'll have another poster attacking Sangi and Docpop of being canopy nazi's who just don't understand how things work.

I hope he heals quick that video was scary.

Sadly this is all too true.

Sangi, I'm glad you survived your mistakes.

And I'm glad you learned from them and are brave enough to admit it.


Willi91  (C 2309)

Oct 31, 2011, 8:16 AM
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In reply to:
That was freakin brutal to even watch...

Sangi, I think you should post the uncut video, along w/your list of injuries. Hearing you gasp for breath, & others trying to attend to you, may help keep some other young hotshots from hurting themselves.

I hope you eventually make a full recovery, Sangi. I'm sorry this happened to you.

I actually agree on this one.
Seeing things on video that scares the crap out of you and knowing that this could be you, is sometimes what is needed to make people remember, what they're dealing with.
At least thats my own opinion. I really do think ecerything through an extra time when seeing swoopers get hurt.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 31, 2011, 9:15 AM
Post #207 of 241 (2726 views)
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Impressive video. I'm glad you missed the asphalt. At what point in the swoop did you realize you were too low? Bailing at the 90 would have been great, probably at the 180 would have worked.


Sangi

Nov 1, 2011, 1:52 AM
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In reply to:
Impressive video. I'm glad you missed the asphalt. At what point in the swoop did you realize you were too low? Bailing at the 90 would have been great, probably at the 180 would have worked.

I probably realized I was too low when I was already coming into the ground, but I can't say for sure because my memories of that turn and crash are either super blurry or non existent..


hokierower  (B 36150)

Nov 1, 2011, 9:13 AM
Post #209 of 241 (2491 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Impressive video. I'm glad you missed the asphalt. At what point in the swoop did you realize you were too low? Bailing at the 90 would have been great, probably at the 180 would have worked.

I probably realized I was too low when I was already coming into the ground, but I can't say for sure because my memories of that turn and crash are either super blurry or non existent..

Jesus, that was a jawdropper. What altitude were you at when you executed the 270? 300ft? That's pretty crazy, especially knowing that my Spectre 190 takes almost 400-500ft to execute a 360 turn and it's 60sf larger than your canopy and dives a lot less.

Heal up good.


Sangi

Nov 2, 2011, 6:02 AM
Post #210 of 241 (2365 views)
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it was probably between 120 and 130 meters..

This was my usual turn altitude, I was so used to it, because I used to do my turns very quick (without noticing it myself, in my head they look slow, from the side they looked very quick) and I always had a very quick recovery and even still had like 5-10 meters left from the ground, but this time I did the turn slower, which resulted in a much longer rec arc which I didn't realize and I just whacked myself.

Changing the way you turn, but leaving the same initiation altitude is bad.


wildcard451  (D License)

Nov 2, 2011, 6:21 AM
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In reply to:
it was probably between 120 and 130 meters..

This was my usual turn altitude, I was so used to it, because I used to do my turns very quick (without noticing it myself, in my head they look slow, from the side they looked very quick) and I always had a very quick recovery and even still had like 5-10 meters left from the ground, but this time I did the turn slower, which resulted in a much longer rec arc which I didn't realize and I just whacked myself.

Changing the way you turn, but leaving the same initiation altitude is bad.

Just for the record....you had NO recovery arc on that turn, or it started about 0.25 sec prior to impact, and you still had some oversteer in there... You appeared to be holding the fronts until just before impact, while still turning. It would be hard to tell without outside video.

/not bashing on you man, just clarifying for others reading


hokierower  (B 36150)

Nov 2, 2011, 8:32 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
it was probably between 120 and 130 meters..

This was my usual turn altitude, I was so used to it, because I used to do my turns very quick (without noticing it myself, in my head they look slow, from the side they looked very quick) and I always had a very quick recovery and even still had like 5-10 meters left from the ground, but this time I did the turn slower, which resulted in a much longer rec arc which I didn't realize and I just whacked myself.

Changing the way you turn, but leaving the same initiation altitude is bad.

Just for the record....you had NO recovery arc on that turn, or it started about 0.25 sec prior to impact, and you still had some oversteer in there... You appeared to be holding the fronts until just before impact, while still turning. It would be hard to tell without outside video.

/not bashing on you man, just clarifying for others reading

Completely agree, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if your canopy hit the ground at the same time you did. If that was the usual altitude for a 270 I don't know how you didn't bounce earlier than this because there was no way you were recovering after you continued onto the 270 after the 180.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Nov 2, 2011, 9:24 AM
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In reply to:
I don't know how you didn't bounce earlier than this because there was no way you were recovering after you continued onto the 270 after the 180.

He knows (now) - and was told SEVERAL times before, that on his previous "swoops" (such that they even were), that he was already DANGEROUSLY "in the corner", and seen to be "digging-out" each and every prior. However, because he simply continued to get away with that, he just plain (until now) REFUSED to let himself prior - realize any better. On this (fateful) jump, he simply reduced his prior ZERO "margin(s)" to SUB-ZERO, and really - NEVER even realized how/what he was doing. Unsure

Same kinda mentality I think, but from a different aspect/issue with something else saw just this past weekend. I approached a jumper in a loading area I noticed with a gear alteration/issue - (another lowbie/newbie), and I pointed it out. ...The INSTANT response: "I've had it this way before, and it's okay (worked out so far)." Sometimes they just don't even know, what they don't even know - and "getting away" with something MARGINAL for a couple of times can really prove to be the WORST possible (set up for disaster!) combination.

I was able to pull the jumper aside and speak with them - got them to CONSIDER a little bit better and further, and HOPEFULLY got them to see the light to make a correction to the situation before they learned (as Sangi has only now done here) the hard way. I only wish that somehow, SOMEONE could have effectively gotten through to Sangi here, similarly. I've heard it over & over again - that there are SOME, that you just cannot (effectively) ever get through to, and that they really need to "learn their own lessons", for themselves. I dunno. I just can't bring myself to accept that though. So, regardless of (sometimes) continual or repeated frustration, I still - at least keep on trying.

Sangi - Now that you have experienced what you have, and you are going through what you are ...can you think of ANYTHING, or even any "style" perhaps of approach from anyone, that might have gotten through to you, BEFORE your incident has now occurred, which might have effectively helped you AVOID it? You now have a unique potential opportunity here, to maybe help OTHERS hopefully, avoid similar fate.

In short - was there ANYTHING Sangi, anyone could have ever said or done - that you can think of now in retrospect, that might have been more EFFECTIVE?

Hope you heal well and fully, and that you are in fact, able to return. I'm sure you will this time, progress with "pace", grace and humility, and hopefully further thereby - you can also become an effective mentor, to others. I know that if you do, and if you try - you will have my full support! FWIW

Blue Skies,
-Grant


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Nov 2, 2011, 9:31 AM)


matt002

Nov 2, 2011, 11:36 AM
Post #214 of 241 (2206 views)
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In reply to:
Seeing and hearing someone hook in is one hard way it gets brought home. Seeing first-person video might be another.

I dont think there is any way to get through to the future Sangis of this sport.
Its still too abstract on video, especially if the video is of some one that you do not know or care about.

In order to succeed in high risk environments, you must have faith in yourself and your ability, and you must believe at a sub conscious level that you will survive no matter what.
You may consciously know there is a chance that you wont, but you can never truly believe this, because if you do, you stop.

This personality trait is common to everyone who takes part in high risk activities, its like a spectrum with guys like sangi at one end and non-skydivers at the other, but make no mistake, it is a spectrum and we are all on it.
For example, your non skydiving friends may think that you are crazy and reckless for doing any kind of skydive, in the same way that we can look at anyone futher towards the risk end of the spectrum and say the same of them. Who is right? And how do we decide?
I find it funny how many of the people posting the 'I told you so's' further up this thread could well be the subject of this kind of thread themselves pretty soon. But of course, it only happens to someone else!Wink


(This post was edited by matt002 on Nov 2, 2011, 11:37 AM)


virgin-burner

Nov 2, 2011, 3:04 PM
Post #215 of 241 (2145 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Seeing and hearing someone hook in is one hard way it gets brought home. Seeing first-person video might be another.

I dont think there is any way to get through to the future Sangis of this sport.
Its still too abstract on video, especially if the video is of some one that you do not know or care about.

In order to succeed in high risk environments, you must have faith in yourself and your ability, and you must believe at a sub conscious level that you will survive no matter what.
You may consciously know there is a chance that you wont, but you can never truly believe this, because if you do, you stop.

This personality trait is common to everyone who takes part in high risk activities, its like a spectrum with guys like sangi at one end and non-skydivers at the other, but make no mistake, it is a spectrum and we are all on it.
For example, your non skydiving friends may think that you are crazy and reckless for doing any kind of skydive, in the same way that we can look at anyone futher towards the risk end of the spectrum and say the same of them. Who is right? And how do we decide?
I find it funny how many of the people posting the 'I told you so's' further up this thread could well be the subject of this kind of thread themselves pretty soon. But of course, it only happens to someone else!Wink

+1


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Nov 2, 2011, 9:53 PM
Post #216 of 241 (2096 views)
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Completely agree, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if your canopy hit the ground at the same time you did. If that was the usual altitude for a 270 I don't know how you didn't bounce earlier than this because there was no way you were recovering after you continued onto the 270 after the 180.

I am going to call bull shit on your post. I think you are just parroting what you have heard others say. With you experience level and time in the sport you couldnít possibly know the sight picture for a 270 on any canopy much less one that is sub 150.

Posting something in a manner that indicates you know it to be fact can lead to problems. You can come to believe you do in fact have the knowledge and skills you post about.

Donít take this as a flame but as a well meaning warning. Donít let knowing the words convince you that you have the skills.

Sparky


holie  (A License)

Nov 3, 2011, 7:14 AM
Post #217 of 241 (2031 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Completely agree, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if your canopy hit the ground at the same time you did. If that was the usual altitude for a 270 I don't know how you didn't bounce earlier than this because there was no way you were recovering after you continued onto the 270 after the 180.

I am going to call bull shit on your post. I think you are just parroting what you have heard others say. With you experience level and time in the sport you couldnít possibly know the sight picture for a 270 on any canopy much less one that is sub 150.

Posting something in a manner that indicates you know it to be fact can lead to problems. You can come to believe you do in fact have the knowledge and skills you post about.

Donít take this as a flame but as a well meaning warning. Donít let knowing the words convince you that you have the skills.

Sparky



+1 !!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 3, 2011, 9:30 AM
Post #218 of 241 (1992 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

>Posting something in a manner that indicates you know it to be fact can
>lead to problems. You can come to believe you do in fact have the
>knowledge and skills you post about.

Agreed. Virgin-Burner is a classic example of this. He gave a lot of advice to Sangi (which fortunately he took) and has now decided that therefore he's an expert - and does not need to listen to people who give advice. Or more accurately, has decided he does not need to listen to people who give him advice that he doesn't like.


Sangi

Nov 3, 2011, 1:19 PM
Post #219 of 241 (1929 views)
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In reply to:
Just for the record....you had NO recovery arc on that turn, or it started about 0.25 sec prior to impact, and you still had some oversteer in there... You appeared to be holding the fronts until just before impact, while still turning. It would be hard to tell without outside video.

/not bashing on you man, just clarifying for others reading

Yes, you're probably right. I believe my turn was too slow and too hard (meaning I made the canopy dive faster and longer than I was used to and didn't realize that at that moment..).

In reply to:

Sangi - Now that you have experienced what you have, and you are going through what you are ...can you think of ANYTHING, or even any "style" perhaps of approach from anyone, that might have gotten through to you, BEFORE your incident has now occurred, which might have effectively helped you AVOID it? You now have a unique potential opportunity here, to maybe help OTHERS hopefully, avoid similar fate.

Most likely seeing from the side in reality someone bounce like me would have scared me off and made me rethink how I'm approaching everything, but that's probably the only thing.

If I ever notice someone like me doing something similar to what I did I'll defo will try to save them by telling my story of pain and showing the visuals..


jakee  (C License)

Nov 3, 2011, 2:29 PM
Post #220 of 241 (1906 views)
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In reply to:
During the crash I did a very very slow 270 from around 120-130 meters, it wasn't enough height for the canopy to recover on it's own, I don't know why I didn't hit the brakes, because if I would have I would be perfectly fine now,

Sorry dude, but I think you wouldn't.

Your hand is still visible giving significant input to the left front riser approximately 1 second before impact, and it's probably still in your hand for another 1/2 second. By the time you let go of your fronts there is nothing you could have done to recover that canopy before pounding in. You misjudged it that badly. It's great that you appreciate now that you were fucking up, but even now you still don't get by how much.

Even if by some miracle you had got away with this one, it would have happened next weekend, or the one after, or the one after that...


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Nov 3, 2011, 4:33 PM
Post #221 of 241 (1862 views)
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Re: [matt002] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Seeing and hearing someone hook in is one hard way it gets brought home. Seeing first-person video might be another.

I dont think there is any way to get through to the future Sangis of this sport.
Its still too abstract on video, especially if the video is of some one that you do not know or care about.

Most skydivers think we're special snowflakes all unique with our own strengths.

This leads to the canonical new skydiver advice to "listen to your instructors" "who've seen you fly" when it comes to down-sizing, the implication being that those instructors can some how recognize skydivers' specialness and approve of more aggressive downsizing protocols which is complete crap.

People should be sizing their canopies based on the worst possible situation:

It's the sunset load, cute chicks flash the pilot for extra altitude, some one in your group gets hypoxic and catches their foot on the seatbelt so you take forever to climb out, you have a long spot so you're landing off, and the low light means you don't see power lines until you've almost on top of them so you make a low turn to avoid them for a down-wind landing on an asphalt road.

not the sunny-day scenario of into the wind in a sunny wide-open field that's neither hard nor taxing and gives skydivers an incomplete picture of their abilities.

Instructors and a skydiver could only observe that they're ready for a premature down-size if they're getting into such situations on a regular basis and handling them successfully. Either that hasn't happened and there's no basis for the special snow flake recommendation, or the skydiver in question is short bus special in the judgement department and shouldn't be downsizing faster.

Other sides to this are operating at a sufficiently low mental arousal level, developing muscle memory, and learning situational awareness.

People perform best in situations that are stimulating enough that they're not falling asleep, but not unfolding so fast that they're overwhelmed where things like freezing become common. Premature down-sizing makes it easy to over-stimulate yourself and do incorrect things like hanging onto a front riser or two until impact. You need enough jumps in slower situations with bigger canopies to get used to it so that's less likely to happen.

Although you can almost yank controls as far as you'd care to with impunity under larger parachutes, canopies get more sensitive to control inputs as they get smaller, whether intended or not. People with too few jumps on intermediate sizes instinctively make the big movements which worked on large canopies but turn little ones into the ground at unsurvivable speeds.

Situational awareness means you've been doing things long enough to notice that things aren't right hundreds or thousands of feet before you're in a dangerous situation. People need to ease into things, with a hundred or few jumps on the next larger size and easing into larger turns making it easier to notice what's wrong so they're less likely to hang on controls until it's too late.

Following Brian Germain's 1.0 + .1/100 jump wing loading formula (with more complications) seems to work well on those counts and combined with practicing the skills enumerated by Brian and Bill von Novak radically reduces your chances of ending up in the incident reports.

Instead of telling skydivers to follow their instructors' advice which probably won't be based on enough information and allows people to ask around until they get an answer they like we should be telling them to follow Brian's writings unless complicating factors (bad depth perception, poor accuracy, not flaring far enough to avoid running, etc) noted by them or some one else suggest they be even more conservative.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Nov 3, 2011, 4:44 PM)


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Nov 4, 2011, 3:02 AM
Post #222 of 241 (1794 views)
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In reply to:
This leads to the canonical new skydiver advice to "listen to your instructors" "who've seen you fly" when it comes to down-sizing, the implication being that those instructors can some how recognize skydivers' specialness and approve of more aggressive downsizing protocols which is complete crap.

Right. The fuck. On.

There is no idea so boneheaded or dangerous that you won't find one S&TA or guy with 15,000 jumps somewhere who'll tell you it's OK.

You are not a precious unique snowflake. People who haven't seen you fly are, in fact, still in a position to tell you something is a bad idea.


JackC1

Nov 4, 2011, 5:41 AM
Post #223 of 241 (1761 views)
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In reply to:
Instructors and a skydiver could only observe that they're ready for a premature down-size if they're getting into such situations on a regular basis and handling them successfully.

The successfully part I agree with, but if you're regularly getting yourself into shitty situations, you have bigger problems than premature downsizing. There is an old saying that a superior pilot is one who uses his superior judgement so as not to have to use his superior skill.


piisfish

Nov 4, 2011, 6:24 AM
Post #224 of 241 (1744 views)
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In reply to:
There is an old saying that a superior pilot is one who uses his superior judgement so as not to have to use his superior skill.
modifying and stealing for my sigline Smile


devildog  (C 40302)

Nov 4, 2011, 2:59 PM
Post #225 of 241 (1649 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

That's really, really painful to watch. I think I'll bookmark it if I ever get the inkling to ever do anything passed normal progression.


ShcShc11  (A 15638)

Nov 4, 2011, 10:47 PM
Post #226 of 241 (3032 views)
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In reply to:
Here's a quick crap quality vid of my crash..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF578oSkrKk

That is horribly scary for newbies like me Unsure


Sangi

Nov 5, 2011, 11:03 AM
Post #227 of 241 (2971 views)
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In reply to:
Sorry dude, but I think you wouldn't.

Your hand is still visible giving significant input to the left front riser approximately 1 second before impact, and it's probably still in your hand for another 1/2 second. By the time you let go of your fronts there is nothing you could have done to recover that canopy before pounding in. You misjudged it that badly. It's great that you appreciate now that you were fucking up, but even now you still don't get by how much.

Even if by some miracle you had got away with this one, it would have happened next weekend, or the one after, or the one after that...

You're spot on, on this one. I agree completely, only now I see that my crash was only a matter of time with my type of flying..

But there still was a chance to save myself, if only I would've let go of the front just right after my canopy turned and yanked the toggles I probably would've saved my ass, but as you said only for a short amount of time until the next try to do the same stupid shit..


Sangi

Nov 5, 2011, 11:07 AM
Post #228 of 241 (2965 views)
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In reply to:
That is horribly scary for newbies like me Unsure

Swooping is completely unforgiving when done wrong.

Watching someone crash is one thing and it's good it scares you, it makes you be more careful.

But if people like me (the way I was before) could also feel (for a while) the immense agony and pain and so many health problems without such crashes then they would be really scared off to even touch the front or yank the toggles close to the ground.

Only now I can appreciate my realization, I regret that I was so stupid and cocky all this time to learn this lesson the hard way.. simply put peeps, crashing sucks bad, so bad that you never wanna experience it, believe the stupid Sangi this time, no bullshit this time for real..


(This post was edited by Sangi on Nov 5, 2011, 11:09 AM)


kuai43  (C License)

Nov 5, 2011, 5:18 PM
Post #229 of 241 (2912 views)
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How are you doing?


Sangi

Nov 6, 2011, 1:13 AM
Post #230 of 241 (2867 views)
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Re: [kuai43] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm slowly getting better..

I don't have fevers anymore, my blood tests are decent, but I'm still weak because I've been chained to a bed for a month now..

I can't feel or move anything below my chest. This is due to my spinal brain being swollen. It should subside in 2-3 months or so and then I should start slowly feeling and moving my body, starting from top to bottom, but I'll have to do a lot of work in a special rehab hospital which they are moving me to on monday. I might spend 3 or 6 months there, who knows, depending on how I will be recovering, but it's meant to get me back on my feet, if I work hard enough I'll walk again..


trigger  (D 101390)

Nov 6, 2011, 2:17 AM
Post #231 of 241 (2853 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the update on your recovery .
I think your last post does more to illustrate the results of bad decision making than the video and hopefully will reinforce the warnings often given to the madskillz crowd the frequent these forums. VB take note.
Heal fast Sangi


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Nov 6, 2011, 8:23 AM
Post #232 of 241 (2799 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Sangi, thanks so much for the candid description of what you're going through right now. I think a lot of people who thought like you did have the attitude of "I'm not afraid of dying." And that's not an unnatural feeling, especially when you're younger and/or have no dependents. Even at 40, I feel like I'm not afraid of death, per se; I've lived my life well, openly, and honestly and if tomorrow's my time, I can say that I lived it with no regrets. And though I know I've got family and other loved ones who would have to grieve my death, I don't have any children or other dependents to leave behind. I don't fear death for myself, because, well, I'll be dead.

What terrifies me most about this sport is exactly what you're going through - a traumatic (but ultimately non-fatal) injury that will take months or years to recover from. I've been through a trauma and recovery before (not skydiving related) and all things considered, that was a relatively "minor" trauma. But I know for sure that I don't want to go through that again, and I definitely don't want to take it up a notch. I don't wish my death on my loved ones, but I also don't wish putting them in the position of long-term (or even permanent) caregivers.

I haven't eliminated all the risks of dying or traumatic injury, but I try to mitigate it as much as possible by jumping a big, conservative canopy, sitting out when conditions are marginal, and choosing my jump sites and jump partners thoughtfully.


P-dro

Nov 6, 2011, 2:29 PM
Post #233 of 241 (2717 views)
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In reply to:
I can't feel or move anything below my chest. This is due to my spinal brain being swollen. It should subside in 2-3 months or so and then I should start slowly feeling and moving my body, starting from top to bottom, but I'll have to do a lot of work in a special rehab hospital which they are moving me to on monday. I might spend 3 or 6 months there, who knows, depending on how I will be recovering, but it's meant to get me back on my feet, if I work hard enough I'll walk again..

Hi Sangi, I juste discovered the tragic event that followed our last exchange here. I wish you a full recovery, and I know you will be a different person from now on. You've been given a second chance, make the most of it. Hoping to see you back in the sky some day....


(This post was edited by P-dro on Nov 6, 2011, 2:29 PM)


Trae  (Student)

Nov 6, 2011, 2:41 PM
Post #234 of 241 (2703 views)
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in reply to "I'm slowly getting better.. "
...............................

Hang in there man , you're doing great.
The world is now a much bigger place for you even though you might not think so stuck in bed.
You'll have time to see things now many people just don't see....and it don't go away.
Everytime a little niggle hurts again you 'll get the message ... again.
My hint is to get off the pain killers as quick as possible . The pain can teach you more than those chemicals will.

I woke up in hospital once tied down with gadgets attached and tried to tear them all off in an instant escape bid.
The nurse came in and told me " STOP IT ! you've got a broken back ."
Hopefully I will never forget the true terror I experienced until my friends and family helped me accept that I could recover and walk again.

You're a survivor mate , welcome.
Angelic


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Nov 6, 2011, 4:19 PM
Post #235 of 241 (2658 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Sangi, you made it hard to be surprised this happened to you, as you well know, but your candor and honesty with yourself and us has shown you have real character. Not saying you're not thick-headed, just saying you've shown some real integrity!! Wink

Something that's never mentioned, AFAIK, is that dying is not the worst thing that can happen to a skydiver. An incident like yours demonstrates that dying is the quick and easy way out.

I feel for you and hope you hang in there, work with your doctors and physical therapists and get as well and recovered as you can. It's going to be painful, arduous and will take a long time - keep your courage up!

There will be dark times and negative thinking - ignore that shit and keep surviving, keep working and get yourself back together. PMA is good medicine.

Good luck and get better!

N


piisfish

Nov 7, 2011, 12:24 AM
Post #236 of 241 (2595 views)
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In reply to:
Only now I can appreciate my realization, I regret that I was so stupid and cocky all this time to learn this lesson the hard way.. simply put peeps, crashing sucks bad, so bad that you never wanna experience it, believe the stupid Sangi this time, no bullshit this time for real..
Hey Ignas,
thanks for sharing your incident with us.
Now STOP regretting. You did man up, apologize sincerely for your past "mistakes", now keep all your energy on the positive side for a better and quicker healing.
Get better Smile


Sangi

Nov 7, 2011, 7:30 AM
Post #237 of 241 (2531 views)
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Thank you all.

Hopefully I won't give up and do my best, I really wanna walk again and most of all get back to flying, damn I miss it so bad and it's been a relatively short time off, not counting the upcoming huge time out.. Oh well, like they say, life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get.

What I got now is a painful, but a very good lesson. Tbh, looking at all my injuries and complications after that crash I should've died, I dunno how I survived this at all, even the doctors at first weren't sure if I'll survive, but all in all, disregarding the injuries I'm happy to be alive and happy to have a decent chance to get back to my old (physical) self..


Trae  (Student)

Nov 7, 2011, 3:23 PM
Post #238 of 241 (2416 views)
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Re: [Sangi] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

 
For what its worth my life became much better after my little accident . I got to meet heaps of people that had had similar incidents.
People used to walk up to me and tell me stories about what happened to them ,so many first hand bounce stories.
I couldn't understand why they singled me out as they weren't telling everyone.(pre internet)

One step at a time and you'll get there.
A lot of the crew out here don't get that yet.
edited cause it felt harsh (but wasn't).


(This post was edited by Trae on Nov 7, 2011, 3:37 PM)


JerseyShawn  (Student)

Jan 20, 2012, 11:24 AM
Post #239 of 241 (2089 views)
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How are you doing with your recovery man?


Sangi

Jan 22, 2012, 1:37 AM
Post #240 of 241 (1953 views)
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Re: [JerseyShawn] Watching out for newbies [was - hard impact at Nats] [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, it's been over two months now that I've been in rehab..

I've got stronger since I arrived here and more self sufficient in daily things.. Besides that I'm still paralyzed and can't feel or move my legs..

I do have all kinds of weird inner feelings, like muscles cramping, shivers running down my legs and similar type of stuff, you can really feel the strain on your legs after the gym.. I don't have any outer feelings though, like touching the skin or any kind of feeling of pain if say you nip it..

One of the worst parts (besides the fact that you can't walk) is that you can piss or shit like a normal person.. In order to pee you have to use a catheter, crapping is a tedious and long task with the aid of medicine..

I've had a magnetic resonance done not long ago and the myelitis (the thing that made me paralyzed) that I had is gone now, my spine looks "great" now as the doctors said.. So still, not enough time has passed to have any conclusions and the myelitis subsided only not long ago, so any real regeneration to the spinal brain should only be starting now (if any will)..

Overall it's a long and tedious process and nobody knows what the outcome will be Smile


yoink

Jan 22, 2012, 9:59 AM
Post #241 of 241 (1896 views)
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Fingers crossed for you Sangi. That sort of condition I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I'm sure your doctors will have told you that nerve regeneration is pretty much the slowest process in the body, but it can happen.

Try and stay positive.



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