Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
hard impact at nationals?

 

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Feeblemind  (D 28621)

Sep 16, 2011, 12:04 PM
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hard impact at nationals? Can't Post

any information available on a hard impact during nationals? Heard a competitor hit the water hard and may have broken some ribs and punctured a lung on his first competition jump, any detais?


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Sep 16, 2011, 2:47 PM
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Re: [Feeblemind] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

It was a practice round on Wednesday by a jumper who was very inexperienced. Reported jumps around 500 total and he was under cross brace canopy, from Norcal.

This jumper received many many warnings back home about the progression required for swooping and that he was skipping those educational opportunities. He came to texas under the radar and told nobody he was going to swoop the pond. He recently purchased or demoed a velo 96 after several folks declined to sell him one. He was on the 96. He hit steep and lucky to be alive.


(This post was edited by jacketsdb23 on Sep 16, 2011, 5:35 PM)


ScoobieDoo  (D 24795)

Sep 16, 2011, 5:59 PM
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Re: [Feeblemind] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

sry but it can't be Nationals as they have not started yet. Must be Canopy Pilot Comp in Texas?


Feeblemind  (D 28621)

Sep 16, 2011, 6:05 PM
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Re: [jacketsdb23] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jacket,

Thanks for the information. I have also received further information on the involved individual. You post was mild on the fact that this person did not listen to educational advice provided. The fact of the matter is he flat ignored the mentoring that folks with thousands of skydives and swoops offered for free. Numerous individuals talked until they were blue in the face, but he failed to head that advice.

I was once told that stupidity and arrogance should be painful, point and case for this incident. I'm glad he didn't kill himself and I hope he learned something! More importantly I hope just one person will read this and and listen to the folks with experience.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Sep 16, 2011, 6:10 PM
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Re: [ScoobieDoo] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
sry but it can't be Nationals as they have not started yet. Must be Canopy Pilot Comp in Texas?

Those are the Nationals for canopy piloting


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Sep 16, 2011, 7:05 PM
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Re: [jacketsdb23] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It was a practice round on Wednesday by a jumper who was very inexperienced. Reported jumps around 500 total and he was under cross brace canopy, from Norcal.

This jumper received many many warnings back home about the progression required for swooping and that he was skipping those educational opportunities. He came to texas under the radar and told nobody he was going to swoop the pond. He recently purchased or demoed a velo 96 after several folks declined to sell him one. Unconfirmed if it was the 96 or 111 he was on. He hit steep and lucky to be alive.

Hard to tell, but it sure looks like this pilot (if you want to call him that) fronted all the way in....geez.

EDIT: After looking at the zoomed shots in this thread it appears this guy was actually rear risering for the last 50 or so feet, but clearly it was to late.

http://www.facebook.com/...p;type=1&theater


(This post was edited by chuckakers on Sep 16, 2011, 7:32 PM)


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Sep 16, 2011, 7:17 PM
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Re: [Feeblemind] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

And here are the photo's. I took them. I was standing in between the speed and zone acc. area in the sand. I wasn't going to take any pics of him because I didn't think anything cool was going to happen.Laugh But than I saw how low he was before he started his turn. I think he did a 270 or a 360 from about 500ft. I started snapping. As you can see he was on his REARS until he was underwater. Also when zooming in on the pics, it looks as if he is pulling his rears down like how you would with front risers. his hands are next to his ears.

This was during practice and it was his first jump at the DZ.
And yes it was Nationals.
Attachments: 2011 CP Nationals 013 (2) (427x640).jpg (104 KB)
  2011 CP Nationals 014 (2) (427x640).jpg (137 KB)
  2011 CP Nationals 015 (2) (427x640).jpg (149 KB)
  2011 CP Nationals 016 (2) (427x640).jpg (155 KB)
  2011 CP Nationals 017 (2) (427x640).jpg (152 KB)
  2011 CP Nationals 018 (2) (427x640).jpg (155 KB)
  2011 CP Nationals 019 (427x640).jpg (166 KB)
  2011 CP Nationals 019 (427x640).jpg (166 KB)
  zoom depth (590x481).jpg (157 KB)


theonlyski  (D License)

Sep 16, 2011, 7:20 PM
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Re: [dqpacker] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow... Thanks for the pics, but damn that looked rough.


AggieDave  (D License)

Sep 16, 2011, 7:22 PM
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Re: [dqpacker] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow. I guess one of the lessons to take away from this is to not ride your fronts into the pond. Maybe try letting go of the fronts and trying at least the toggles?


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Sep 16, 2011, 7:48 PM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Sep 16, 2011, 7:49 PM
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Re: [Feeblemind] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jacket,

Thanks for the information. I have also received further information on the involved individual. You post was mild on the fact that this person did not listen to educational advice provided. The fact of the matter is he flat ignored the mentoring that folks with thousands of skydives and swoops offered for free. Numerous individuals talked until they were blue in the face, but he failed to head that advice.

This one requires no commentary whatsoever. I will personally buy this man a bowling ball - if he lives.

OK, I lied. Editorial follows:

Why the FUCK didn't the DZO or S&TA at his home drop zone jack this guy up??????? It sounds like his "mentors" tried to back him down, but the "authorities" at his DZ could have (and based on the comments above) DAMN WELL SHOULD HAVE demanded he change his behavior or TURNED HIM AND HIS MONEY AWAY!

C'mon people. At some point we have to POLICE idiots. DZO's and S&TA's won't tolerate low pulls, head-down tandems, and any variety of stupid shit. WHY, WHY, WHY are we not demanding the same restrictions on what is CLEARLY nut-job canopy behavior?

We keep asking why our canopy stats suck so bad. Is there really any question?

Fucking STOP IT, already.

And USPA - wake the FUCK UP!

What was this guy's home DZ? I want to hear what management there has to say on this. LET'S HEAR IT! C'mon DZO, engage.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 16, 2011, 7:49 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I guess the lesson to take away from this is to not ride your fronts into the pond. Maybe try letting go of the fronts and trying at least the toggles?

I thought he was on the rears. It does look like he's trying to 'flare' with the rears like you would with a toggle. The way he's holding the riser and direction he's pulliing it looks very 'toggle-like'.

Either way, is the story that this guy just traveled to Nationals got on the plane and went for the pond without telling anyone ahead of time? Don't they have some sort of 'organizing' for people swooping the pond, with regards to exit orders and what pass to exit on?

If that's the case, I wonder what he thought was going to happen? Even if he didn't wreck into the water, did he think it was going to be OK that he did that, unannounced, on his first jump at the DZ? It seems like he had to have a different outcome in his mind or he wouldn't have travelled all the way to Texas to make just one jump before getting grounded or banned from the pond. What the F is wrong with people?


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Sep 16, 2011, 8:58 PM
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Re: hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm glad he didn't kill himself

I'm happier that he didn't kill anybody else.

In reply to:
Why the FUCK didn't the DZO or S&TA at his home drop zone jack this guy up???????

The S&TA's at one dz did.

Why put all the onus on dzo's and s&ta's? Why did anyone who had seen him fly get on an airplane with him? Why did PD send him Velocity demos back in June when he had 300ish jumps? Who sold it to him?


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Sep 16, 2011, 8:59 PM
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Re: [davelepka] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

There was no formal exit order for the days leading up to the competiton. Yes, he literally got on the plane and just went for it.

Several of us who talked with him after last norcal meet ( he did not compete and we would not let him) were surprised to see him in texas. Said hi and assumed he was there because of his interest in swooping. He managed to get on the load after us, with a weight belt, and shiny new velo 96 and creamed himself into the pond.

The level of ignorance is staggering.


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Sep 16, 2011, 9:04 PM
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Re: [skybytch] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it was an accident he got on the load after us. I've met the guy once before and would not have willingly let him do it. I shut him down in norcal and would have in texas.

That being said, I came to compete and not babysit. Some people won't take the hour conversation you have with them and do squat with it.


crazycableguy  (C 38297)

Sep 16, 2011, 9:46 PM
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Re: [davelepka] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

Im sure he thought he would go out and "compete" at nationals, this some how would have justified his progression to the velo. He then could have gone back to his home DZ and received great praise for his ability to master canopy flight, faster than other jumpers. Lets face it, some of us are just better canopy pilots than others, and these skills quickly emerge around the time you PURCHASE a crossbraced canopy. (sarcasm was intended)

You can tell teenage boys that the speed limit is 70mph, post a sign, and tell them that if they break this speed limit there will be hefty fines to pay. some of these boys will obey the speed limit, some will double it.

My point is that you can inject all of the rules and regulations that you want, IT WONT MAKE A DIFFERENCE. you can break or kill yourself trying to swoop any canopy. what will make a difference is to find a way to connect to these people and make them understand.
For example; If you simply tell that jumper that has 200ish jumps NOT to fly a katana loaded at 1.5 and leave it at that, then he has learned nothing.
However we could suggest that an alternative canopy at a more conservative loading would be a better learning tool, and that they should focus on more consistent landings. We need to help them understand that by taking smaller steps, that they will build the fundamental and NECESSARY skills to become a great swooper at a much faster pace than if they skip these crucial steps. we can periodically check in on the young pilots progression and ask them how they building their skills. watch them land and give them assignments to work on. Ask them how they like this canopy, and get their input and perspective on where their skills are at...
Showing an interest, and offering insight will go way further than setting limitations that will be quickly and easily be overlooked. Canopy progression is not something that we can ask the USPA effectively regulate. It is our responsibility to teach and help guide these young eager pilots. Every time some new guy buys a katana or velo or anything outside of their skill level, they are a fool. And every time that happens I am sure that someone on their DZ could have gone a few steps farther and directed them to a more safe path.

We can ask the USPA to do our job for us, and then we will see a trend in bogus log book jump numbers, with the same number of injuries and fatalities.

OR

We can take on the responsibility and help educate a young naive aspiring swooper, and direct them to make the better decision on their own. Sometimes it takes more than a 1 hour conversation, sometime it takes a genuine interest in other peoples progression. and sometimes you get that 1 guy who just wont listen.


(This post was edited by crazycableguy on Sep 16, 2011, 9:51 PM)


mchamp  (D 32129)

Sep 16, 2011, 10:04 PM
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Re: [Feeblemind] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

He definitely earned his spot at sofpidarf


swoopfly  (E License)

Sep 16, 2011, 11:14 PM
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Re: [mchamp] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

looks like he made the noobie mistake of trying
to plane out of the corner in rears!


freeflyn  (D License)

Sep 16, 2011, 11:26 PM
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Re: [dqpacker] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are the whitest shoe laces I've ever seen on swoop shoes Tongue


cvtreecare

Sep 16, 2011, 11:54 PM
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Re: [jacketsdb23] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

he's been swooping for a few hundred jumps and was not intending to compete. how else do you learn?
In reply to:


Marisan  (E 123)

Sep 17, 2011, 2:09 AM
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Re: [cvtreecare] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

You've demonstrated you can't get rid of the idiots so wait for someone else to get rid of the canopies.

Fools! You've been warned by the FAA and you still won't listen.


NWFlyer  (D License)

Sep 17, 2011, 4:23 AM
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Re: [crazycableguy] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sometimes it takes more than a 1 hour conversation, sometime it takes a genuine interest in other peoples progression. and sometimes you get that 1 guy who just wont listen.

Believe me when I say this guy has gotten way more than a 1 hour conversation at home, from people who had a lot to offer if he'd been willing to listen.

After that failed, the people who tried to mentor him instead just started warning others to just stay off his loads. CrazyUnsure


(This post was edited by NWFlyer on Sep 17, 2011, 5:13 AM)


monkycndo  (D License)

Sep 17, 2011, 5:16 AM
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Re: [freeflyn] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Those are the whitest shoe laces I've ever seen on swoop shoes Tongue

New shoes, new manpris, new weight belt, new canopy. Hell, if you don't have the skillz, at least be pimpin' matchy matchy cool as they put you on the stretcher.Unsure


peek  (D 8884)

Sep 17, 2011, 6:21 AM
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Re: [NWFlyer] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
crazycableguy: ... and sometimes you get that 1 guy who just wont listen.

NWFlyer: Believe me when I say this guy has gotten way more than a 1 hour conversation at home, from people who had a lot to offer if he'd been willing to listen.

NWFlyer, to me, that pretty much explains it. (Sounds like you know the background of this jumper..)

To everyone:
Is there anything further that anyone thinks that any organization or "authority" can do to prevent things like this? (Pencil-whipping logbooks is a distinct possibility if more regulation is enacted.)

crazycableguy, thank you for your understanding of regulation versus education, and why in some cases neither will prevent an accident. Do you think you can explain this to Chuck? :)


(This post was edited by peek on Sep 17, 2011, 7:02 AM)


ufk22  (D 16168)

Sep 17, 2011, 6:53 AM
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Re: [peek] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
crazycableguy: ... and sometimes you get that 1 guy who just wont listen.

NWFlyer: Believe me when I say this guy has gotten way more than a 1 hour conversation at home, from people who had a lot to offer if he'd been willing to listen.

NWFlyer, to me, that pretty much explains it. (Sounds like you know the background of this jumper..)

To everyone:
Is there anything further that anyone thinks that any organization or "authority" can do to prevent things like this?

In reply to:
Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not.
This sport is unforgiving of either.
Sometimes, there is no solution other than natural selection.
To suggest otherwise will be a waste of everyone's time.


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 17, 2011, 7:35 AM
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Re: [peek] hard impact at nationals? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
(Pencil-whipping logbooks is a distinct possibility if more regulation is enacted.)
Quote:

We already have that going on now for ratings and going to boogies or to jump what ever hot thing of the day, canopy, wingsuits, cameras, you name it it's going on now.


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