Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
AAD or no AAD...that is the question

 

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ghost47  (A License)

Aug 25, 2011, 9:22 PM
Post #26 of 96 (1186 views)
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Re: [shah269] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A brother can't find a nice second had Bev suit!
My new Tony Suit cost me something like $400 a couple years ago.

Skydive = approximately $25.

16 skydives = approximately $400.

Don't skydive for one or two months. (Or just make one or two jumps to keep current.)

Boom, new suit money. Sky is still there when you get back. And a custom suit will (hopefully) fit you perfectly.


shah269  (A 59581)

Aug 25, 2011, 9:49 PM
Post #27 of 96 (1181 views)
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Re: [Squeak] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well...I guess the suit will have to wait....why are all you freaking guys skinny or short or worse...all of you freaking free fly!
A brother can't find a nice second had Bev suit!
I'm sure there's a Hot Bod suit out there to fit you.

Saw those, very cute girls!
I'm looking. Just a few things hit at once.
Friend offered a very nice price for a two year old AAD and now I have to refinance. I guess it's motorcycle pants and "borrowed" student suits for a little while longer.

At least if things go wrong I may live? Who knows?


D22369  (D 22369)

Aug 27, 2011, 9:44 PM
Post #28 of 96 (1108 views)
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Re: [shah269] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

Darn it guys! I wanted to be "bad ass"
In reply to:

Does jumping without one really qualify a person as bad assed these days? do some people really think this?Crazy

Its merely a choice that each person can make for themselves *(unless the rules require them where they are at)

I haven't jumped with one since I was a student unless it was in a borrowed rig - but when I resume jumping again I will be placing one in my rig, its really not all that much $$ and who knows, it might just come in handy.

Roy


skybill  (D 6009)

Aug 28, 2011, 12:05 AM
Post #29 of 96 (1100 views)
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Re: [shah269] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
AAD or no AAD....that is the question.
These things really hold their value so well!
$1,400 new Cypress or $1,100 two year old used, never fired.

Well there are always those Argusus's things....

But I do need A suit...tired of "Barrowing"

Thoughts?

Hi ah-2,
If you have AAD then I suggest you find a good doctor or phychiatrist to try to cure you before you jump. AAD is a serious disease!!!!!! You can get killed jumping with that shit. As for borrowing a jumpsuit, jump in your patch pants and a sweatshirt or just jump nude. It's still summer and you won't freeze your balz off, just not yet.


fossg  (C 16560)

Aug 28, 2011, 12:29 AM
Post #30 of 96 (1096 views)
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Re: [shah269] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't take this the wrong way Shah, but if you get the jumpsuit before the aad you might end up with a reallllly nice fashionable....... crater....Frown


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Aug 28, 2011, 5:27 AM
Post #31 of 96 (1082 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

Several months ago we had a student just cleared for self-supervised who had been heads up through CAT E whose rubber loop on the altimeter broke in free fall. The student spent the entire skydive fooling with the altimeter and had a cypres save instead of a funeral. Most, but not all, US DZs require AADs and I personally think that is a good thing. I know two other jumpers who also were saved by an AAD when they lost altitude awareness during a free-flying jump. They are a good thing, and for me a mandatory piece of safety equipment.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 28, 2011, 6:52 AM
Post #32 of 96 (1067 views)
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Re: [fencebuster] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Most, but not all, US DZs require AADs

Huh?

They all require them for students (as per USPA) but for licensed jumpers, I'd say those who require them are in the minority. Heck, I can only think of a couple I know of.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Aug 28, 2011, 7:01 AM
Post #33 of 96 (1060 views)
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Re: [Remster] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I am aware of the student requirement -- no news there. But I have not been to a DZ yet that didn't require an AAD and I have been to a bunch. I still think an AAD should be a mandatory part of a jumper's gear. Ash White, a great skydiver, likely would still be alive if he'd had one in his rig (and turned it on). Knowing three friends who are walking around BECAUSE they had an AAD, proves their value to me.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Aug 28, 2011, 8:18 AM
Post #34 of 96 (1041 views)
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Re: [fencebuster] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

Kapowsin, Snohomish, Elsinore, LP, these are some of the places I jump each year and they haven't checked for an AAD. I like AADs, but I don't know if I'm ready to have them required yet.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 28, 2011, 8:26 AM
Post #35 of 96 (1035 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

I know they are out there, but I have not personally been to a DZ that requires AADs in the US. Maybe a a New England thing...


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Aug 28, 2011, 8:27 AM
Post #36 of 96 (1031 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

I spend most, but not all of my time on the East Coast. Elsinore rented me gear when I had about 35 jumps and it had an AAD in it and they checked to make sure I had turned it on before I got on the plane, so maybe they were just being safe with a newbie.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 28, 2011, 8:34 AM
Post #37 of 96 (1028 views)
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Re: [fencebuster] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Elsinore rented me gear when I had about 35 jumps and it had an AAD in it and they checked to make sure I had turned it on before I got on the plane, so maybe they were just being safe with a newbie.

It's their gear. They can make sure it's used to their specification.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Aug 28, 2011, 9:01 AM
Post #38 of 96 (1019 views)
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Re: [Remster] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

And I was damn glad they cared.


tbrown  (D 6533)

Aug 28, 2011, 12:40 PM
Post #39 of 96 (980 views)
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Re: [fencebuster] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

 Elsinore rented me gear when I had about 35 jumps and it had an AAD in it and they checked to make sure I had turned it on before I got on the plane, so maybe they were just being safe with a newbie.
At Perris, they'll make you turn on the AAD on rental gear before you even leave the gear shop. My personal rule is to turn mine on (Cypres2) in the parking lot, before I lift my rig out of the car. Ditto for my audible.

I know two highly experienced jumpers, each with thousands of jumps and one a former world champion, who were saved by AADs when they were injured too badly to pull any handles. There was also an instructor killed at Elsinore when he couldn't find his reserve handle after a cutaway - an AAD may or may not have saved him, but as his rig didn't have one, he never had that chance.

In the old days, too many people went in with no pull for reasons known only to themselves. That almost never happens anymore. Arguments against using AADs are based on either a macho mentality, or a misguided cheapskate approach to economy.


fencebuster  (D 29918)

Aug 28, 2011, 12:43 PM
Post #40 of 96 (975 views)
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Re: [tbrown] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

+1


CRASH1  (D 32099)

Aug 29, 2011, 10:05 AM
Post #41 of 96 (912 views)
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Re: [tbrown] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Elsinore rented me gear when I had about 35 jumps and it had an AAD in it and they checked to make sure I had turned it on before I got on the plane, so maybe they were just being safe with a newbie.

At Perris, they'll make you turn on the AAD on rental gear before you even leave the gear shop. My personal rule is to turn mine on (Cypres2) in the parking lot, before I lift my rig out of the car. Ditto for my audible.

I know two highly experienced jumpers, each with thousands of jumps and one a former world champion, who were saved by AADs when they were injured too badly to pull any handles. There was also an instructor killed at Elsinore when he couldn't find his reserve handle after a cutaway - an AAD may or may not have saved him, but as his rig didn't have one, he never had that chance.

In the old days, too many people went in with no pull for reasons known only to themselves. That almost never happens anymore. Arguments against using AADs are based on either a macho mentality, or a misguided cheapskate approach to economy.
Sold!

BTW: Anyone want to sell a used Cypress or Vigil?


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 29, 2011, 10:27 AM
Post #42 of 96 (902 views)
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Re: [CRASH1] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
BTW: Anyone want to sell a used Cypress or Vigil?

I hear there are a bunch of them in the forrests Wink


Andy9o8  (D License)

Aug 29, 2011, 2:08 PM
Post #43 of 96 (863 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
BTW: Anyone want to sell a used Cypress or Vigil?

I hear there are a bunch of them in the forrests Wink

Forrest Gump?


CMiller  (B 30864)

Aug 29, 2011, 2:41 PM
Post #44 of 96 (852 views)
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Re: [tbrown] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Arguments against using AADs are based on either a macho mentality, or a misguided cheapskate approach to economy.

I don't think the money issue should be discounted. If you really can't afford an AAD and choose to jump without one, I don't see it as a noticeable improvement to safety. Most AAD fires are due to loss of altitude awareness, which is entirely preventable with or without an AAD. The situations where you are rendered incapacitated or unconscious seem infrequent, and can be mitigated by risk management and jump planning. The issue of finding your reserve handle is dealt with by using an RSL, not by an AAD.

There are definitely benefits to having one, especially when freeflying is involved where there can easily be large differences in speed, but I don't think any jumper should have to feel unsafe without an AAD. I know I personally would not have a problem jumping without one, and that has nothing to do with machismo.

That being said, it's nice to hear the jumper decided to get one.


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 29, 2011, 2:45 PM
Post #45 of 96 (849 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
BTW: Anyone want to sell a used Cypress or Vigil?

I hear there are a bunch of them in the forrests Wink

Forrest Gump?

Touche... Blush


Andy9o8  (D License)

Aug 29, 2011, 3:59 PM
Post #46 of 96 (828 views)
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Re: [CMiller] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't see it as a noticeable improvement to safety.

I do.

In reply to:
Most AAD fires are due to loss of altitude awareness, which is entirely preventable with or without an AAD.

But it still sometimes happens, which is why in the pre-Cypres days, when few experienced jumpers used "AODs", no-pull fatalities and very-low-pull near-misses were a lot more common than they are now. And although average pull altitudes were lower back then, that was also before the advent of much faster freefly fall-rates.

No offense to you personally, but I really grow weary of people arguing against safety devices to guard against fuck-ups just because said fuck-ups "should be preventable" with diligence. Yeah, it's true, but it's beside the point: even careful, skillful people occasionally screw up.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Aug 29, 2011, 4:01 PM)


CMiller  (B 30864)

Aug 30, 2011, 1:10 PM
Post #47 of 96 (753 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No offense to you personally, but I really grow weary of people arguing against safety devices to guard against fuck-ups just because said fuck-ups "should be preventable" with diligence. Yeah, it's true, but it's beside the point: even careful, skillful people occasionally screw up.

Oh no I agree, and I would rather have an AAD than not have one. I'm not arguing against one. However, I think criticizing someone who does not jump with an AAD due to cost is a bit misguided, since the cost benefit analysis could be beneficial for some people.


(This post was edited by CMiller on Aug 30, 2011, 1:17 PM)


virgin-burner

Aug 31, 2011, 2:17 AM
Post #48 of 96 (707 views)
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Re: [CMiller] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
No offense to you personally, but I really grow weary of people arguing against safety devices to guard against fuck-ups just because said fuck-ups "should be preventable" with diligence. Yeah, it's true, but it's beside the point: even careful, skillful people occasionally screw up.

Oh no I agree, and I would rather have an AAD than not have one. I'm not arguing against one. However, I think criticizing someone who does not jump with an AAD due to cost is a bit misguided, since the cost benefit analysis could be beneficial for some people.

so some people value their life less than what, 1200$!?

alright! Unimpressed


cube  (D License)

Aug 31, 2011, 2:42 AM
Post #49 of 96 (706 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

If I took measures in minimizing the possibility of a collision in freefall, I wouldn't use one.. But as long as there are sometimes low time jumpers in air with me and/or I'm freeflying, I'll have one in my rig.


virgin-burner

Aug 31, 2011, 4:16 AM
Post #50 of 96 (697 views)
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Re: [cube] AAD or no AAD...that is the question [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If I took measures in minimizing the possibility of a collision in freefall, I wouldn't use one.. But as long as there are sometimes low time jumpers in air with me and/or I'm freeflying, I'll have one in my rig.

well, it's not only others fuck-ups.. a simple entanglement with your camera-gear, or a loss of altitude-awareness, you may just be happy to have one!


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