Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Open door on takeoff

 


CMiller  (B 30864)

Jul 30, 2011, 6:06 PM
Post #1 of 78 (3349 views)
Shortcut
Open door on takeoff Can't Post

Apparently we are now allowed to open the door on takeoff. Nobody I talked to seems to think this is a bad idea, but my reasoning is:

A pilote chute out the door with a seatbelt on is extra bad.
A pilot chute out the door with insufficient altitude for a main to open is bad.

Am I missing something?


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 30, 2011, 6:12 PM
Post #2 of 78 (3324 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.


champu  (D 28302)

Jul 30, 2011, 6:34 PM
Post #3 of 78 (3312 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I don't really care what's "allowed"... If I'm there I close the door until seat belts are off at 1000 ft and people get done moving to the floor and shifting around.

We're talking less than a minute of having the door closed.


CMiller  (B 30864)

Jul 30, 2011, 6:37 PM
Post #4 of 78 (3308 views)
Shortcut
Re: [champu] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

How exactly is the best way to approach people about this issue? I don't want to seem like a dick, and nobody closes the door when I mention it when I am in a plane and it happens.


SansSuit  (D 21554)

Jul 30, 2011, 6:50 PM
Post #5 of 78 (3288 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diablopilot] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.

What about an aircraft that has no door? Like a C206 with a cargo door (that isn't there)?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 30, 2011, 7:22 PM
Post #6 of 78 (3261 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SansSuit] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

What about it?


Idunno

Jul 30, 2011, 7:26 PM
Post #7 of 78 (3256 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

What kind of plane?


CMiller  (B 30864)

Jul 30, 2011, 7:28 PM
Post #8 of 78 (3249 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Idunno] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What kind of plane?

Otter.


SansSuit  (D 21554)

Jul 30, 2011, 7:29 PM
Post #9 of 78 (3248 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What about it?
I was asking diablopilot if he would jump a C206 that doesn't have a door.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 30, 2011, 7:37 PM
Post #10 of 78 (3241 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SansSuit] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
What about it?
I was asking diablopilot if he would jump a C206 that doesn't have a door.

I don't mind an aircraft that does not have a door, but if there is a door available, I would prefer to have it closed for take off.

Why? Well, it is a good safety choice and if you become a heat casualty due to sitting in a jump plane on take off with the door closed, then your health choices are poor. Drink more water, party less the night before...whatever it may be.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 30, 2011, 9:06 PM
Post #11 of 78 (3182 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SansSuit] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Depends. Do I have to secure myself to the aircraft?


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 31, 2011, 5:17 AM
Post #12 of 78 (3082 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How exactly is the best way to approach people about this issue? I don't want to seem like a dick, and nobody closes the door when I mention it when I am in a plane and it happens.

Takeoffs with the door open make no sense. Cooling the plane off a bit during the short period of time needed to get from the ground to 1000 or 1500 feet isn't worth the risk of what would happen if a pilot chute went out the door.

I would start with the DZO or S&TA, and politely explain the possibilities when people are belted into the plane near the door with the door open.

Bottom line: seat belts on with the door open is dangerous for everyone on the plane.


SansSuit  (D 21554)

Jul 31, 2011, 6:47 AM
Post #13 of 78 (3043 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diablopilot] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Depends. Do I have to secure myself to the aircraft?

Seat belts to 1,000'. That's the rule.


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 31, 2011, 7:03 AM
Post #14 of 78 (3034 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SansSuit] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't bother me any, then again when I started we didn't have no stinking door to close and we had all kinds of handles and and shit sticking out all over the place. You learned to cover your handles and move very careful about the AC ever mindful of the belly wart if near the door.

(we didn't have doors or seat belts till later on, belts were after the door came in fashion)

It used to freak me out, but I got over it.... but I have always been mindful of my movements, open or closed door.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jul 31, 2011, 7:04 AM)


SansSuit  (D 21554)

Jul 31, 2011, 7:34 AM
Post #15 of 78 (3014 views)
Shortcut
Re: [stratostar] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wouldn't bother me any, then again when I started we didn't have no stinking door to close and we had all kinds of handles and and shit sticking out all over the place. You learned to cover your handles and move very careful about the AC ever mindful of the belly wart if near the door.

(we didn't have doors or seat belts till later on, belts were after the door came in fashion)

It used to freak me out, but I got over it.... but I have always been mindful of my movements, open or closed door.

This is the way I feel about it. The other day I had the opportunity to ride a C206 with the door off. Yeah, there are dangers that you need to be aware of but be careful and those dangers are mitigated.

And then there is the WFFC 412. No chance of a pilot chute getting loose under that extremely controlled configuration. Wink


shropshire  (C License)

Jul 31, 2011, 7:38 AM
Post #16 of 78 (3010 views)
Shortcut
Re: [stratostar] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

People should be mindful of their 'movements' .......... and farts in a plane Tongue


airdvr  (D 10977)

Jul 31, 2011, 8:52 AM
Post #17 of 78 (2987 views)
Shortcut
Re: [shropshire] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the door open issue has alot to do with drag on a multi-engine aircraft if one engine quits. Not sure which engine would be a problem but I think losing the engine opposite the side of the door would create a yaw that would be more difficult to handle of the door were open.


lopullterri  (D 20814)

Jul 31, 2011, 10:25 AM
Post #18 of 78 (2957 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

All in all...if there is a door available, why risk leaving it open? It does create extra drag to leave it open and there is the risk of a PC out issue. If we are required to have seat belts on until 1000 feet, then the door should be closed.
Personally, I have sat by an open door many times in the past for takeoff and preferred it, because I was doing video and you get a better video. Was it the safest decision? No. Why risk it if the door is there?


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 31, 2011, 11:09 AM
Post #19 of 78 (2930 views)
Shortcut
Re: [stratostar] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wouldn't bother me any, then again when I started we didn't have no stinking door to close and we had all kinds of handles and and shit sticking out all over the place. You learned to cover your handles and move very careful about the AC ever mindful of the belly wart if near the door.

(we didn't have doors or seat belts till later on, belts were after the door came in fashion)

It used to freak me out, but I got over it.... but I have always been mindful of my movements, open or closed door.

The difference was A) as you pointed out you didn't have seatbelts, and B) Skydivers were much smarter then.


champu  (D 28302)

Jul 31, 2011, 2:15 PM
Post #20 of 78 (2861 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How exactly is the best way to approach people about this issue? I don't want to seem like a dick, and nobody closes the door when I mention it when I am in a plane and it happens.

Make sure to be clear it's about not having the door open when people are belted in so no one gets ripped in half and/or crashes the plane. People that are stubborn about wanting to have the door open at all times tend to have misonceptions about why it's a dumbass idea. I might have a chat with Lob next weekend while I'm out there.


bigbearfng  (D 29442)

Aug 1, 2011, 1:54 AM
Post #21 of 78 (2712 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Just do what I've done-show them the pic in Poynter's (parachuting the skydiver's handbook)book of the Cessna ripped open when a reserve went out the door-that pic is worth a thousand words!!!!


stratostar  (Student)

Aug 1, 2011, 5:50 AM
Post #22 of 78 (2670 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bigbearfng] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

And FYI-, that door was OPEN!


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Aug 1, 2011, 8:40 AM
Post #23 of 78 (2599 views)
Shortcut
Re: [champu] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeah, I don't really care what's "allowed"... If I'm there I close the door until seat belts are off at 1000 ft and people get done moving to the floor and shifting around.

Are you comfy pulling your either your reserve or main at 1000 ft? I'm not (reserve is close I guess). If the pilot wants it closed to a certain altitude x, and I'm comfy at altitude y for reserve exit, and all the seatbelts are off. then door opens at the higher of x and y. (If I'm at the door). let TMs bitch for another minute - they will live.


My favorite is when a DZ has a closed door policy of any kind - so the jumpers only open the door 3-6 inches or so. I like that - it's big enough for a pilot chute to escape, just not a body........Crazy the door should either be open, or closed, part way is really just stupid


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Aug 1, 2011, 8:41 AM)


champu  (D 28302)

Aug 1, 2011, 10:19 AM
Post #24 of 78 (2545 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Yeah, I don't really care what's "allowed"... If I'm there I close the door until seat belts are off at 1000 ft and people get done moving to the floor and shifting around.

Are you comfy pulling your either your reserve or main at 1000 ft? I'm not (reserve is close I guess). If the pilot wants it closed to a certain altitude x, and I'm comfy at altitude y for reserve exit, and all the seatbelts are off. then door opens at the higher of x and y. (If I'm at the door). let TMs bitch for another minute - they will live.

I'd get out on my reserve at a grand. Having done some clear and pull jumps on the same make/model as a main, I'm pretty happy with how fast it opens out the door. But again, it's not so much about the altitude as it is about the seatbelts.

If the seatbelts are off and the door is open on an Otter, then a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for one person. I think by 1000ft the risk of it happening vs the odds that it can be handled by a jumper are reasonable. I'm familiar with the WFFC incident a few years back where the premature deployed into the horizontal stabilizer, but that guy climbed out and held on all the way to inflation which wouldn't happen in the case we're talking about.

If the seatbelts are on and the door is open a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for the whole plane whether you're at 1000ft or not. The risk of it happening isn't really any greater than in the above case but the stakes are much much higher.

Waiting to open the door until people get done scooting around, moving to the floor, etc. should be self explanitory.

In reply to:
My favorite is when a DZ has a closed door policy of any kind - so the jumpers only open the door 3-6 inches or so. I like that - it's big enough for a pilot chute to escape, just not a body........Crazy the door should either be open, or closed, part way is really just stupid

Yeah, that's another silly "compromise." Although if a pilot chute does pull a d-bag out the bottom of the door the person attached to it is going right through that sliderblind. So it doesn't present as much of a hazard to the rest of the jumpers as having seatbelts on with the door open.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Aug 1, 2011, 10:22 AM
Post #25 of 78 (2540 views)
Shortcut
Re: [champu] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

sounds good - we're on the same page


DougH  (D License)

Aug 1, 2011, 10:34 AM
Post #26 of 78 (1691 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't like it. I also don't like video guys holding their helmets in their hand without tethers.

You can raise the issue all you want, chances are that you will be considered to be overblowing the risks and rocking the boat.

Crazy


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 1, 2011, 11:51 AM
Post #27 of 78 (1663 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DougH] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't like it. I also don't like video guys holding their helmets in their hand without tethers.

You can raise the issue all you want, chances are that you will be considered to be overblowing the risks and rocking the boat.

Crazy

Ain't that just the truth of the matter. How sad.


MikeJD  (D 10605)

Aug 2, 2011, 2:30 AM
Post #28 of 78 (1587 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been a few years, but I used to jump an aircraft (BN Islander) where the rule was that the door must not be closed below 1,000 ft. The 'door' in this case was really just a glass-fibre cover - essentially unattached, but secured to the inside of the fuselage by bunjees. When not in use it would be slid up inside the aircraft towards the pilot, which always involved some awkward shuffling around.

I was never sure of the reason for the rule, but presumably it was either: being quite awkward to remove and stow away, there was a risk that it'd impede our exit in an emergency; or, that being fragile/ brittle it'd be liable to shatter and injure people if in place during an aircraft crash.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Aug 2, 2011, 3:40 AM
Post #29 of 78 (1579 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chuckakers] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Takeoffs with the door open make no sense. Cooling the plane off a bit during the short period of time needed to get from the ground to 1000 or 1500 feet isn't worth the risk of what would happen if a pilot chute went out the door.

I would start with the DZO or S&TA, and politely explain the possibilities when people are belted into the plane near the door with the door open.

Bottom line: seat belts on with the door open is dangerous for everyone on the plane.

...and when the DZO AND the S&TA thinks it's OK for the door open on take-off? The S&TA is one of the biggest violators. Only God knows how he got to be an S&TA.

edited to add:
OK. somebody wanted to make a political issue out of this. The statement was made in a general sense to apply to all those DZOs and S&TAs out there. I had thought the "when" indicated that. Evidently it did not.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Aug 2, 2011, 5:18 AM)


JohnRich  (D License)

Aug 2, 2011, 8:54 AM
Post #30 of 78 (1531 views)
Shortcut
Re: [MikeJD] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's been a few years, but I used to jump an aircraft (BN Islander) where the rule was that the door must not be closed below 1,000 ft. The 'door' in this case was really just a glass-fibre cover - essentially unattached, but secured to the inside of the fuselage by bunjees. When not in use it would be slid up inside the aircraft towards the pilot, which always involved some awkward shuffling around.

I was never sure of the reason for the rule, but presumably it was either: being quite awkward to remove and stow away, there was a risk that it'd impede our exit in an emergency; or, that being fragile/ brittle it'd be liable to shatter and injure people if in place during an aircraft crash.

It's probably for the emergency egress. I've been told it's even in the Cessna owner's manual (or some manual), that if you are going to have to crash land, that you should crack the door open first, so that it won't be jammed shut in the wreckage, leaving you trapped inside.

With that in mind, we have a conflict between this philosophy, and the other dangers that exist with skydiving operations and an open door...

With something like an Otter, where you have 5 egress points, even if one or two doors are jammed shut, there are still likely to be others available. So closing the jump door on that type of aircraft seems to still make sense. At least to me.

But in many places, the comfort of cool blowing air in the summer seems more important than safety.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Aug 2, 2011, 8:56 AM)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 2, 2011, 12:42 PM
Post #31 of 78 (1484 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

"...

But in many places, the comfort of cool blowing air in the summer seems more important than safety."

.....................................................................................

If you are too dainty, delicate, prissy, sissified, etc. to sweat for an extra minute, then you are too dainty to skydive with me!


grimmie  (D 18890)

Aug 2, 2011, 1:42 PM
Post #32 of 78 (1463 views)
Shortcut
Re: [riggerrob] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

A jumper at Perris sat down on the back bench of the Otter years ago like we all do. There's that nice big opening right behind the bench with a ledge about reserve pin height.
Yup, out flew the reserve on take off, right onto the floor next to the door.
We were at rotation.
I'm really glad the door was closed. It was summer and hot as hell.
Shut the door. All the way.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Aug 2, 2011, 3:04 PM
Post #33 of 78 (1447 views)
Shortcut
Re: [riggerrob] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you are too dainty, delicate, prissy, sissified, etc. to sweat for an extra minute, then you are too dainty to skydive with me!

That's right peeps... HARDEN THE FUCK UP!


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 2, 2011, 3:17 PM
Post #34 of 78 (1440 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Scrumpot] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

If we can have the door closed in the f'ing Eloy heat in summer from take off till 1,500 feet, all you pussies in the rest of the world can. Tongue


rwa2468

Aug 2, 2011, 3:42 PM
Post #35 of 78 (1429 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Scrumpot] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

haha just came across this stuff the other day and liked it, relevant to your post perhaps???

http://www.htfu.com


Tiddy  (B License)

Aug 3, 2011, 10:56 PM
Post #36 of 78 (1350 views)
Shortcut
Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

First post here, but I guess now is better than ever.


If the aircraft was designed without a door and has no door, than by all means, knock yourself, but if the door was removed, (any Cessna for example) I would wave'em off...

Structurally speaking, the door on Cessna's is a must. Something ridged needs to be there for airframe flex.

As far as the door popping open on take off, the dz/pilot needs to brief the procedure. I know at the DZ that I fly/jump at, I have told them that I will get around to closing the door in a timely manner. If it pops open just as you leave the ground, the last thing I need is someone in the door trying to close it. With an aft door, before anyone does anything, they should know what they are doing.

Door pops open, hand on your pilot chute, look for instruction....


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Aug 3, 2011, 11:20 PM
Post #37 of 78 (1345 views)
Shortcut
Re: Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah... I don't think I have had many experiences with door open fully from take-off, but traveling and jumping I think there have been occasional instances where the door is propped open maybe 12 inches or so on take-off..

I definitely agree with a PP that I too despise/fear the partial cracking of the door on take-off- either open it or close it damn it, either allow enough room for the whole skydiver to follow the PC out if necessary, or prevent it in the first place!

At my home dz, on really hot days, they'll ask for it open right after seatbelts come off (1k)... especially if I am right near the door, I am guarding my hackey like there is no tomorrow and pretty much holding my breath and checking my alti- "okay 1100k, emergency exit go to reserve and pray I don't die... 1600, reserve and pray... 2500 okay finally okay with the main as the first shot..." and then around 3.5-4 k normal pull altitude for my main, I can breathe again, lol.

But it is fully open as opposed to partial in such situations at my home dz, so I do feel better about that- I just get anxious between 1k and my normal pull alti. I'm a nervous newbie, but yes I would rather suffer through a few more minutes of heat and wait an extra 1k feet or so after seatbelts off to open the door..

And at least it is not generally open before the seatbelts come off as the original post referenced! That is scary stuff!

Thanks for posting-- Totally valid points about needing to keep the door shut AT LEAST until seatbelts are off, perhaps a bit later, and also about leaving it either fully open or fully closed at any point.. hope all other dZs take heed! Could go very very badly if not...

blues,
R


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Aug 3, 2011, 11:39 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

Aug 4, 2011, 4:57 AM
Post #38 of 78 (1325 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Tiddy] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Structurally speaking, the door on Cessna's is a must. Something ridged needs to be there for airframe flex.

Really? That explains all the Cessna 172, 180, 182, 185, 195's I see around with broken door jams & wing mounts, after all of those years flying around without door has caused all that damage......Crazy No wonder they crash!


bigbearfng  (D 29442)

Aug 4, 2011, 8:12 AM
Post #39 of 78 (1303 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyflower_bloom] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeah... I don't think I have had many experiences with door open fully from take-off, but traveling and jumping I think there have been occasional instances where the door is propped open maybe 12 inches or so on take-off..

I definitely agree with a PP that I too despise/fear the partial cracking of the door on take-off- either open it or close it damn it, either allow enough room for the whole skydiver to follow the PC out if necessary, or prevent it in the first place!

At my home dz, on really hot days, they'll ask for it open right after seatbelts come off (1k)... especially if I am right near the door, I am guarding my hackey like there is no tomorrow and pretty much holding my breath and checking my alti- "okay 1100k, emergency exit go to reserve and pray I don't die... 1600, reserve and pray... 2500 okay finally okay with the main as the first shot..." and then around 3.5-4 k normal pull altitude for my main, I can breathe again, lol.

But it is fully open as opposed to partial in such situations at my home dz, so I do feel better about that- I just get anxious between 1k and my normal pull alti. I'm a nervous newbie, but yes I would rather suffer through a few more minutes of heat and wait an extra 1k feet or so after seatbelts off to open the door..

And at least it is not generally open before the seatbelts come off as the original post referenced! That is scary stuff!

Thanks for posting-- Totally valid points about needing to keep the door shut AT LEAST until seatbelts are off, perhaps a bit later, and also about leaving it either fully open or fully closed at any point.. hope all other dZs take heed! Could go very very badly if not...

blues,
R

Very good to see you paying attention like that-
A little additional food for thought for you-
Any hills around the DZ that the aircraft climbs over? Then that 1000ft/1600ft etc. just became a lot less.......
Also consider any hills for your planned breakoff and pull altitudes-good example of this is in San Diego.


peek  (D 8884)

Aug 4, 2011, 8:15 AM
Post #40 of 78 (1299 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyflower_bloom] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
At my home dz, on really hot days, they'll ask for it [the door] open right after seatbelts come off (1k)... especially if I am right near the door, I am guarding my hackey like there is no tomorrow ...

I wish more people would be this careful. I often see people moving around, seemingly oblivious as to where their pilot chute handle is, just as soon as their seatbelt is off.

I think a lot of people assume that everything on their gear will stay put regardless of movement.

If my pilot chute handle is right by an open door, I have been known to hold onto to it until everyone in the vicinity gets situated and stops moving around.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 6, 2011, 6:09 PM
Post #41 of 78 (1223 views)
Shortcut
Re: [stratostar] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Structurally speaking, the door on Cessna's is a must. Something ridged needs to be there for airframe flex.

Really? That explains all the Cessna 172, 180, 182, 185, 195's I see around with broken door jams & wing mounts, after all of those years flying around without door has caused all that damage......Crazy No wonder they crash!

....................................................................................

Doors are rarely "structural components" in non-pressurized airplanes.
Doors only become structural components in pressurized (e.g. Beechcraft King Air) airplanes and large transports.
Hint: look at the number of latches and try to see if they are connected to warning lights in the cockpit.

Cessna tested most of their single-engined airplanes (120, 140, 150, 152, 170, 172 175, 180, 182, 185, 205, 206, 207, 208) "for flight with a door removed" in order to make it easier to sell them to skydiving schools.

Even so, most pressurized airplanes still have to prove that they can maintain controlled flight - with a critical door open (e.g. nose baggage door on Cessna 400 series twins) - before they can get a Type Certificate.


JackC1

Aug 7, 2011, 9:27 AM
Post #42 of 78 (1193 views)
Shortcut
Re: [riggerrob] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped planes with no door and for most side door aircraft, while not ideal, I'll do it if there is no alternative. But the one that really shits me up is the Antonov AN28. It's a tailgate aircraft, except there is no tailgate, just a gaping great hole in the back of the fuselage and if the fat bastards at the front don't shuffle up, there aren't enough seat belts left for the plebs at the back. That is a problem, especially when it climbs like the space shuttle. Litterally at 45 degrees straight after take off. Fuck that.


(This post was edited by JackC1 on Aug 7, 2011, 3:05 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Aug 7, 2011, 10:05 AM
Post #43 of 78 (1184 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JackC1] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Litterally at 45 degrees straight after take off. Fuck that.


In reply to:

Jumped an Arava with open doors, no seat belts and a slick floor years ago...YAHOOOO! Shocked

Fuck THAT is right! Sly


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 7, 2011, 11:32 AM
Post #44 of 78 (1157 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airtwardo] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Litterally at 45 degrees straight after take off. Fuck that.


In reply to:

Jumped an Arava with open doors, no seat belts and a slick floor years ago...YAHOOOO! Shocked

Fuck THAT is right! Sly

You talking about that one that was at Elsinore back in the 70's?

Sparky


airtwardo  (D License)

Aug 7, 2011, 12:06 PM
Post #45 of 78 (1152 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Litterally at 45 degrees straight after take off. Fuck that.


In reply to:

Jumped an Arava with open doors, no seat belts and a slick floor years ago...YAHOOOO! Shocked

Fuck THAT is right! Sly

You talking about that one that was at Elsinore back in the 70's?

Sparky

That one and the newer one that was in Sandyeggo in the 80's...I also jumped a newly configured DC-3 turbine once. I bet my fingernail gouges from sliding around during take-off are still in the floor! Sly


CMiller  (B 30864)

Aug 7, 2011, 12:46 PM
Post #46 of 78 (1144 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

To update, and so everybody is clear, it turns out this is NOT actually acceptable at the DZ. The S&TA was notified, and reminders were made to everybody not to open the door before 1000 feet. Thanks for giving me advice Champuu.


tsurfer69  (D 12523)

Aug 9, 2011, 9:07 AM
Post #47 of 78 (1033 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airdvr] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

besides the pc or bagged canopy out the door issue, shropshire hit the nail on the head. if the right engine quits on a twin otter, the yaw movement causes the door to become a big air scoop and may prevent the aircraft from climbing. on other aircraft, a canopy over the tail or inflating while still belted to the plane, will surely end bad for everyone on board


Gato  (C License)

Aug 10, 2011, 8:05 AM
Post #48 of 78 (974 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

We're currently making use of a U206 with a right-side cargo door. The door itself is a roll-up cordura and vinyl panel that velcros to the sides and floor.

The first few times I had to take the door position, it didn't bother me at all, because it was colder at the beginning of the season. When it got warm, and people asked me to open the door at 1k, I was juuuust a bit hesitant. No one had to tell me, "Make sure your seatbelt is off!!" - if things go to shit, you can be assured I will NOT be in your way, and if I am, MOVE ME. Anyway, I'm still not willing to roll it all the way up. I'll check my handles, and then roll it up to about a foot off the floor, resting my left knee against it, and that seems to cool things off just fine.

The partial roll of door also serves as a mighty fine armrest. Wink

One thing about sitting in the door position (if it's open on the way to altitude,) I don't think it's a good idea to do the helmet-on-the-chest strap thing - you pretty much have to be ready to launch out the door from 1000' up. Just my opinion. It does make me wonder if we should do what we make students do: Put everything on, and leave it on. Sorry, getting off topic, now.

One other thing no one's mentioned yet: If the door's open on the way to altitude, you're robbed of the privilege of yelling, "Door!"


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Aug 10, 2011, 8:56 AM
Post #49 of 78 (953 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Gato] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

One other thing no one's mentioned yet: If the door's open on the way to altitude, you're robbed of the privilege of yelling, "Door!"

I've jumped at 25+ dropzones and I don't think I can ever recall a place where the door was not re-closed at some point prior to jump run; usually between 5,000 and 8,000 feet depending on how hot it is. This allows for everyone to safely do handle checks, for the TIs to safely hook up their students, for people to move around getting in position and putting up benches, without the added risk of something getting bumped during that process with an open door.

So you can still yell "DOOR!" LaughCool


JohanW  (D 86318)

Aug 10, 2011, 9:01 AM
Post #50 of 78 (951 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Gato] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

If I have my helmet anywhere but on my head, I can still exit, with or without it. Might have to do it with my eyes closed, because I have contact lenses and a full-face helmet with a visor, but I can do that as well and am prepared to do it. Heck, a friend of mine always has her eyes closed for the first few seconds out of the plane.

But for initial climb and whenever the door is open, I almost always have it on my head. (OK, so I'm not perfect.)


Gato  (C License)

Aug 10, 2011, 10:03 AM
Post #51 of 78 (1095 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NWFlyer] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've jumped at 25+ dropzones and I don't think I can ever recall a place where the door was not re-closed at some point prior to jump run; usually between 5,000 and 8,000 feet depending on how hot it is. This allows for everyone to safely do handle checks, for the TIs to safely hook up their students, for people to move around getting in position and putting up benches, without the added risk of something getting bumped during that process with an open door.

So you can still yell "DOOR!" LaughCool


Good point. That's usually what happens at our DZ as well.


theonlyski  (D License)

Aug 10, 2011, 10:41 AM
Post #52 of 78 (1071 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NWFlyer] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

One other thing no one's mentioned yet: If the door's open on the way to altitude, you're robbed of the privilege of yelling, "Door!"

I've jumped at 25+ dropzones and I don't think I can ever recall a place where the door was not re-closed at some point prior to jump run; usually between 5,000 and 8,000 feet depending on how hot it is. This allows for everyone to safely do handle checks, for the TIs to safely hook up their students, for people to move around getting in position and putting up benches, without the added risk of something getting bumped during that process with an open door.

So you can still yell "DOOR!" LaughCool

It also makes it easier for the vidiots to do the 'in air interview'... Lot less noise when the door is closed.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Aug 10, 2011, 10:54 AM
Post #53 of 78 (1066 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NWFlyer] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So you can still yell "DOOR!" LaughCool

yes, but please don't, it's idiotic


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Aug 10, 2011, 2:50 PM
Post #54 of 78 (1022 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So you can still yell "DOOR!" LaughCool

yes, but please don't, it's idiotic

But so much fun to do! Angelic


petejones45  (C License)

Aug 10, 2011, 2:57 PM
Post #55 of 78 (1020 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diablopilot] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.

It was pioneers in the old days that had to jump with the door off, if they hadnt the sport might not be where its at today. So please show some respect and thank them that you are allowed to skydive. An open door is not a major issue


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 10, 2011, 3:49 PM
Post #56 of 78 (1014 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.

It was pioneers in the old days that had to jump with the door off, if they hadnt the sport might not be where its at today. So please show some respect and thank them that you are allowed to skydive. An open door is not a major issue

And the pioneers jumped with B-4 containers and chest mount reserves. They had to, it was not by choice.
Taking with the door open can be a big deal. Operating with the door off/open changes the allowable VNE speeds as well as maneuvering speed. Placards must be in place to indicate what these speeds are. It can affect the aircrafts ability to reach V2 and V2min. causing a safety concern on shorter runways.
To take off with the door open is just not the smart thing to do.

Sparky

At least youre consistent.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Aug 10, 2011, 4:20 PM
Post #57 of 78 (1005 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

>It was pioneers in the old days that had to jump with the door off . . .

>A open missing door is not a major issue

Overall it is a pretty significant issue.

1) If you fall out below 500 feet or so you can die.

2) If you have ANY gear problem, fixing it by an open door is a recipe for disaster. A loose PC, for example, is a non issue if a door is installed and closed. It may get everyone on the aircraft killed if there is no door there.

2a) The most likely time you will see a reserve suddenly appear is during a pin check, where people yank on covers, tug on cables etc. That's why it's a good idea to do it with the door closed. If the door cannot be closed either you a) skip pin checks (not a great idea) or b) take the risk with everyone in the airplane (also not a good idea.)

3) On takeoff tricycle gear aircraft with doors aft of the gear can kick up rocks, pebbles etc. I've lost a lens to this.

4) During an engine out on multiengine aircraft, the increase in drag during the adverse yaw can cause a loss of ability to climb or a stall.

5) It makes the odds of an unaccompanied tandem student falling out much, much higher.

>So please show some respect and thank them that you are allowed to skydive.

The fact that people once jumped silk reserves does not make it a good idea to jump them today. (And the fact that even you yourself probably wouldn't jump a round silk reserve doesn't mean you have no respect for the pioneers in this sport.)


petejones45  (C License)

Aug 10, 2011, 5:27 PM
Post #58 of 78 (999 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.

It was pioneers in the old days that had to jump with the door off, if they hadnt the sport might not be where its at today. So please show some respect and thank them that you are allowed to skydive. An open door is not a major issue

And the pioneers jumped with B-4 containers and chest mount reserves. They had to, it was not by choice.
Taking with the door open can be a big deal. Operating with the door off/open changes the allowable VNE speeds as well as maneuvering speed. Placards must be in place to indicate what these speeds are. It can affect the aircrafts ability to reach V2 and V2min. causing a safety concern on shorter runways.
To take off with the door open is just not the smart thing to do.

Sparky

At least youre consistent.

you are missing the point entirely.... skydiving is not a safe sport. if you want something safe to do take up golfing or ping pong!


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 10, 2011, 8:17 PM
Post #59 of 78 (977 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you are missing the point entirely.... skydiving is not a safe sport. if you want something safe to do take up golfing or ping pong!

You are right skydiving is a dangerous sport, why make it more so by flying with the door off or open. We learned that years ago tourist.

Sparky


The_Don  (B License)

Aug 10, 2011, 8:36 PM
Post #60 of 78 (971 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
you are missing the point entirely.... skydiving is not a safe sport. if you want something safe to do take up golfing or ping pong!

You are right skydiving is a dangerous sport, why make it more so by flying with the door off or open. We learned that years ago tourist.

Sparky

LaughLaughLaugh


petejones45  (C License)

Aug 10, 2011, 10:51 PM
Post #61 of 78 (946 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
you are missing the point entirely.... skydiving is not a safe sport. if you want something safe to do take up golfing or ping pong!

You are right skydiving is a dangerous sport, why make it more so by flying with the door off or open. We learned that years ago tourist.

Sparky

feel free to send all the pa's you want buddy


paulca  (Student)

Aug 11, 2011, 4:03 AM
Post #62 of 78 (920 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

From a newbie on static line, there is nothing quite like sitting beside the (lack of) door on a Cessna 206, knowing you are attached to the plane. Taking off from a full throttle + full brakes run up and clearing the trees at the end of the runway, with the plane creaking and groaning, by mere feet. Seriously there is a large tree either side that you look UP at!

No belts, 'cept your static line, worn out carpet, gaffa (duct) tape holding the plane head lining in place, etc. The plane itself is on it's second engine it's that old. 6 people on a 4 man plane.

My GF on the last jump she did, sitting in the door position, had to be grabbed by the guy behind her as the pilot decided a non coordinated 60 degree bank was appropriate! She said she really felt like she was going to fall out!

Myself sat in across from the door position hated the pilot when he got the shout, "10 to the right!" and promptly stamped on the rudder pedal to achieve this, rocking everyone around.

All part of the fun. Now for the serious question...

It was not part of our formal training, for that we were told, just listen up to the jump master, he will decide. But a qualified diver on one of our lifts, when the plane was showing signs of sick engine that day said, "700, 800ft if the engine dies I'm out, pull the reserve it opens faster."

Now I got to thinking, I'm on static line, at 800ft is it likely to deploy the main in time?

If I jump and do my emergency drill I'm certainly dead. So jump and immediate reserve and accept the fact I'm going to land with reserve and potentially a just deployed main entangled... I'll live, probably.

What would the best approach be?
(Well obviously, it IS: Listen to the jump master/dispatcher and he will decide!). but I'm curious for your opinions.


nigel99  (D 1)

Aug 11, 2011, 4:19 AM
Post #63 of 78 (915 views)
Shortcut
Re: [paulca] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting so seat belts are not compulsory in the UK?

Quote:
Now I got to thinking, I'm on static line, at 800ft is it likely to deploy the main in time?

Probably. Do you jump with an altimeter on your SL jumps? If so check how high you are under canopy next time you jump. My guess if you only lose 100-200 feet on a typical deployment.

I hated sitting next to the open door. By the way a 206 is a 6 seater (including the pilot).


Peterkn  (D 7417)

Aug 11, 2011, 4:51 AM
Post #64 of 78 (909 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nigel99] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Interesting so seat belts are not compulsory in the UK?

The BPA operations manual says "Where parachutists restraints are fitted, they are to be used during take off and landing."


nigel99  (D 1)

Aug 11, 2011, 5:31 AM
Post #65 of 78 (900 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Peterkn] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Interesting so seat belts are not compulsory in the UK?

The BPA operations manual says "Where parachutists restraints are fitted, they are to be used during take off and landing."

Thanks. It is interesting seeing the differences between the UK and US way of doing things.


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 11, 2011, 5:35 AM
Post #66 of 78 (897 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.

It was pioneers in the old days that had to jump with the door off, if they hadnt the sport might not be where its at today. So please show some respect and thank them that you are allowed to skydive. An open door is not a major issue

And the pioneers jumped with B-4 containers and chest mount reserves. They had to, it was not by choice.
Taking with the door open can be a big deal. Operating with the door off/open changes the allowable VNE speeds as well as maneuvering speed. Placards must be in place to indicate what these speeds are. It can affect the aircrafts ability to reach V2 and V2min. causing a safety concern on shorter runways.
To take off with the door open is just not the smart thing to do.

Sparky

At least youre consistent.

you are missing the point entirely.... skydiving is not a safe sport. if you want something safe to do take up golfing or ping pong!

Be sure to let me know when you start skydiving. I'm REAL interested in that. :-|


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Aug 11, 2011, 6:53 AM
Post #67 of 78 (878 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We learned that years ago, tourist.

both are good observations. Laugh

But, seriously, many newbies, as well as bucket list mid-lifers, get into the sport for their egos and, therefore, try to romanticize the "danger"Shocked image of the sport in unreasonable, naive, and sometimes really dorky ways.

They usually grow out of it or move on eventually to something else - usually because non-skydivers can be impressed if you skydive, but other skydivers aren't.

I don't see anything out of the ordinary here. Other than a disconnect from today's sport where we have really good planners and athletes that progress the sport along with idiots that are impressed with themselves and take stupid risks and pretend its eXtREme.

Compare this to the olden times when we had really good planners and athletes that progressed the sport along with idiots that are impressed with themselves and take stupid risks and pretend its eXtREme...........nevermind


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Aug 11, 2011, 6:57 AM)


Trafficdiver  (C 39999)

Aug 11, 2011, 7:28 AM
Post #68 of 78 (863 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
At least your head is screwed on straight. I wouldn't get on the airplane if they allow that.

It was pioneers in the old days that had to jump with the door off, if they hadnt the sport might not be where its at today. So please show some respect and thank them that you are allowed to skydive. An open door is not a major issue

And the pioneers jumped with B-4 containers and chest mount reserves. They had to, it was not by choice.
Taking with the door open can be a big deal. Operating with the door off/open changes the allowable VNE speeds as well as maneuvering speed. Placards must be in place to indicate what these speeds are. It can affect the aircrafts ability to reach V2 and V2min. causing a safety concern on shorter runways.
To take off with the door open is just not the smart thing to do.

Sparky

At least youre consistent.

you are missing the point entirely.... skydiving is not a safe sport. if you want something safe to do take up golfing or ping pong!

Funny in your profile it says you have a Cypres 2, Why?


bigbearfng  (D 29442)

Aug 11, 2011, 10:14 AM
Post #69 of 78 (823 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

 An open door is not a major issue

I don't want to violate any copyright-so if it covers it-credit to "parachuting the skydiver's handbook" by Dan Poynter.

Here's a pic that shows that an open door can be a very big deal.......
Pics worth more than a thousand words-please take it seriously.....
Attachments: IMG.pdf (207 KB)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Aug 11, 2011, 10:40 AM
Post #70 of 78 (814 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bigbearfng] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Good skydivers control those risks that are controllable. Shutting a door is a pretty easy one to handle. It's simple really.


Peterkn  (D 7417)

Aug 11, 2011, 11:40 AM
Post #71 of 78 (804 views)
Shortcut
Re: [champu] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If the seatbelts are off and the door is open on an Otter, then a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for one person. I think by 1000ft the risk of it happening vs the odds that it can be handled by a jumper are reasonable. I'm familiar with the WFFC incident a few years back where the premature deployed into the horizontal stabilizer, but that guy climbed out and held on all the way to inflation which wouldn't happen in the case we're talking about.

If the seatbelts are on and the door is open a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for the whole plane whether you're at 1000ft or not. The risk of it happening isn't really any greater than in the above case but the stakes are much much higher.

I disagree.

If a pilot chute goes out the door then the jumper connected to it is going to manufacture a new door opening, somewhere between the trailing edge of the existing door and the tail of the aircraft.

Not only will this severely compromise the structural integrity of the aircraft but its very likely that the control mechanisms will also be damaged in the process not great for anyone still in the aircraft, especially the poor pilot.

Dont be fooled into thinking that the jumper will be able to respond quickly enough by diving out of the door after their pilot chute if they were that switched-on then they wouldnt have gotten themselves into this situation in the first place.

Hopefully well never get see which one of us is right about this.

Pete.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 11, 2011, 12:54 PM
Post #72 of 78 (781 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
feel free to send all the pa's you want buddy

And what would that be?

Sparky


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 12, 2011, 12:58 AM
Post #73 of 78 (732 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Tiddy] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Structurally speaking, the door on Cessna's is a must. Something ridged needs to be there for airframe flex.

Then how come the FAA says the following aircraft can be operated with door off? See attachment.

Sparky
Attachments: APPENDIX 2.pdf (7.93 KB)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Aug 12, 2011, 4:38 AM
Post #74 of 78 (710 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

Although legal to fly some Cessnas door off, I wouldn't start doing high g rolling maneuvers and expect the fatigue life to be the same.

Ever taxied a C-182 etc on grass with the swing up skydiving door ajar? There's a surprising amount of flexing movement of the airframe around the door. At one DZ the rule (not always observed) was to taxi with the door closed, and I can understand why.

I don't know how tightly the door fits, but at some point it will take some of the loads, stiffening that giant hole in the structure. It's mostly the fuselage twisting sort of loads that cause the distortion, typical in ground maneuvering on uneven surfaces.

So it is "OK" to have the door open or off. But the plane isn't quite the same without.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Aug 12, 2011, 3:17 PM
Post #75 of 78 (652 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pchapman] Re:Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So it is "OK" to have the door open or off. But the plane isn't quite the same without.

I agree with you completely. I was responding to Tiddys comment the door on Cessna's is a must. When I started jumping everything was flown without a door. But a lot of things have changed since then most for the better.

Sparky


champu  (D 28302)

Aug 15, 2011, 3:19 AM
Post #76 of 78 (526 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Peterkn] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
If the seatbelts are off and the door is open on an Otter, then a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for one person. I think by 1000ft the risk of it happening vs the odds that it can be handled by a jumper are reasonable. I'm familiar with the WFFC incident a few years back where the premature deployed into the horizontal stabilizer, but that guy climbed out and held on all the way to inflation which wouldn't happen in the case we're talking about.

If the seatbelts are on and the door is open a pilot chute getting out the door is likely to be a problem for the whole plane whether you're at 1000ft or not. The risk of it happening isn't really any greater than in the above case but the stakes are much much higher.

I disagree.

If a pilot chute goes out the door then the jumper connected to it is going to manufacture a new door opening, somewhere between the trailing edge of the existing door and the tail of the aircraft.

Not only will this severely compromise the structural integrity of the aircraft but its very likely that the control mechanisms will also be damaged in the process not great for anyone still in the aircraft, especially the poor pilot.

Dont be fooled into thinking that the jumper will be able to respond quickly enough by diving out of the door after their pilot chute if they were that switched-on then they wouldnt have gotten themselves into this situation in the first place.

Hopefully well never get see which one of us is right about this.

Pete.

I don't think they're automatically going through the bulkhead although I agree it's possible. Depending on the exact seating configuration of the Otter there are only a few people who are likely to have a pilot chute get out the door. I'm used to seeing said people sitting pretty close to and and at least slightly forward of the door such that if they were just sitting there haplessly with their seatbelt off they'd get slammed into the doorframe and drug out before the slider came "down." That's just my speculation.

I agree though, I wouldn't want to see either scenario.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Aug 15, 2011, 7:46 AM
Post #77 of 78 (506 views)
Shortcut
Re: [petejones45] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
An open door is not a major issue

I can't believe you said that.
Well, yes I can. There's entirely too many of you guys out here as it is. now here's one more.
Unsure

I just wish there were more of us thinking in terms of minimizing risks instead of increasing them.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Aug 15, 2011, 7:47 AM)


ShcShc11  (A 15638)

Nov 18, 2011, 11:49 AM
Post #78 of 78 (391 views)
Shortcut
Re: [CMiller] Open door on takeoff [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember in one of my AFF jumps, I was on the floor of the Caravan and someone in the hop'n'pop opened the door for air conditioning from 2,000 feet...

Scary scary stuff lol Tongue



Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)