Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
Angle Flying/Atmonauti

 

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michalm21  (Student)

Jul 6, 2011, 10:06 AM
Post #76 of 117 (1811 views)
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Re: [lurch] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

but are you an atmosphere navigator?
Tongue


dqpacker  (D 32043)

Jul 6, 2011, 10:35 AM
Post #77 of 117 (1806 views)
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Re: [lurch] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

A wingsuit can also be effectively sitflown (I call it a "kneelfly") even backwards. You get funny looks when you approach a formation from above, in reverse. Its really just bad sitflying with more fabric than usual and a lot of backslide.

I haven't bothered to invent a catchy name for this stuff.

you could call it AtmoLurchonauti, Lurching around the atmosphere.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 6, 2011, 12:03 PM
Post #78 of 117 (1794 views)
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Re: [dqpacker] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Atmoflailing


SimonBones  (D 28573)

Jul 6, 2011, 2:04 PM
Post #79 of 117 (1777 views)
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Re: [lurch] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

You could launch your own line of winged atmo-suits ! It would be a revolution in the sport completely redefining skydiving as we know it ! Just imagine all that LIFT ! You have disproven gravity ! An aeronautical physics professor told me so !


lurch  (D 27583)

Jul 6, 2011, 2:37 PM
Post #80 of 117 (1771 views)
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Re: [SimonBones] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, the tongue in cheek humor in here is getting thick enough to spread on toast.
I see the giant elaborate speeches posted here making such a big deal about revolutions and lift, and these people dont even have wings or any significant lift by Bird standards. There already WAS a major revolution a ways back that introduced actual lift into freefall- wingsuits. I mean, seriously, it just looks like the atmo guys are trying to make an entire discipline's worth of stew out of one very small oyster.
Not to say there isn't a lot to learn about flying at all variations of steepness, just seems really overwrought to be making up all this jargon and debating what is or isn't actually "atmo" or angle flying or how much "tracing" your headdown has to have to qualify as Atmo or whatever its enthusiasts use to justify claims that this flying is new or revolutionary.
As a winger I'm used to covering large distances by default. So seeing a bunch of wingless people quibbling over lift and tracing and angles just kinda seems a bit silly, pardon me. Normally I would never ridicule the passion of another and I won't here, but all the grandiose jargon-loaded elaborate claims of revolutionary status do tend to invite it.
-B


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Jul 6, 2011, 3:46 PM
Post #81 of 117 (1787 views)
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Re: [lurch] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

What a great thread. Laugh

I lead back tracking jumps and have done some tracing jumps with Francesco (FCipollo) who's a friend of mine. It is different to tracking and it is different to freeflying. As a concept "free flying" can encapsulate everything, including belly (all orientations remember) but the vast majority of people use the term to describe head down, sit and stand.

To me, the Atmo crowd spreads a message that sounds like scientology but in reality what they seem to be into is angled flight and for several good reasons. They seem to get sidetracked on convincing everyone of amazing benefits and features of autmonauti and it seems to me that they should be focussing on the main benefit: it's fun.

I think as far as the general understanding of freeflying goes, you can be on a head down jump and flip to a sit or a stand without too much trouble, you can't suddenly flip to an angle and expect people to follow along unless you've planned that or talked about it. In a tracing jump you can go head down and it's fine. That says nothing about the definitions of the words at all but more the concepts that people hold in their heads which is really what Francesco is talking about and I understand and agree with him on that. I'm no huge tracing advocate, it's just another fun type of jump that I can do with friends.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Jul 6, 2011, 5:19 PM
Post #82 of 117 (1775 views)
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Re: [SimonBones] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Again that looks like head down flying to me.
Moving formation creates drag thus slowing your vertical speed down.


lurch  (D 27583)

Jul 6, 2011, 7:22 PM
Post #83 of 117 (1762 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Now, see, that was elegantly put.
These days I'm doing more and more of what might be described as "wingsuit atmo" I.E. sustained skydives at all degrees of dive from flat to 100% headdown, wings either unloaded or reverse loaded because I drifted all the way over and technically now I'm headdown backtracing or something except its also wingsuit headdown backtracing or maybe its really just normal wingsuit backflying except its also headdown. Whatever.

The dynamic begins to feel very tunnellike and develops some bizarre forces on the wings from really weird directions I'm still learning how to handle, but I'm at the point now where I can join the freefly guys if I want, without ditching the wings. Only thing separating me from the rest of the freefly crowd is, I can move in directions and speeds unavailable to everyone else on the dive and even regain a couple hundred feet of altitude at breakoff if I do it right.
We're talking way beyond zero here, same as a high speed exit, you get a massive boosted climb. A wingsuit taken to freefly speeds in a full-blown headdown develops godlike power to change directions.

I actually think the Atmo guys sort of have the right idea except for the scientology-ish presentation. Personally I intend to continue pushing my own efforts in combined wingsuit/freefly/atmo hybrid type dives until I can basically get on any non-RW dive I want with a wingsuit and totally hang with the sitfly and headdown crowd.

If we HAD an Atmo crowd around here I'd be flying with them already, because a wingsuit makes an Atmo dive look like a bunch of one-legged guys running a marathon. No different than chasing a fat guy with bad body position flying an Intro and just as easy to stay with once you get used to the sensations of a wingsuit loaded up in really funny directions.

You got to give the Atmo guys credit, they're making an entire discipline out of what I just thought of as "flock/student pursuit mode", mostly just a way to get somewhere.

I have a group of 4 guys want me to video their Sitfly train from a wingsuit and I will next chance I get, I'll be able to orbit them in orientations and directions that don't even EXIST and divide by zero anytime I damn well feel like it. I didn't do it this time cause we were in the Caribou Boogie and it was an awful crowded sky. With wingsuit freefly you need a couple cubic miles of clear space because you can unexpectedly catapult yourself several miles horizontally in a few seconds from a 160 mph headdown. Last time I did that near others I pissed off Scotty Burns so bad I could hear him furiously bitching me out in freefall so bad I thought he was gonna scorch my feathers off. I'm still a bit embarassed about that one.

-B


marcoT

Jul 6, 2011, 8:11 PM
Post #84 of 117 (1755 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

 
... as more time said , the sketch are INDICATIVE, made for skydiver to understand the 2000 new atmonauti concept! This sketch that you are talking about is to make clear that the airflow goes from the head to the feet , alimenting the "human wing"...

Now , any way ,it's a mistake cut this sketch and post only the bottom part ! In the upper part was indicate how a wing works , so than in the complex, this sketch say that the BODY ACT AS A WING , without go in the detail , but explicate how the wing works :
- different angle of attack ,
- different angle of asset ,
- different speed ;
- the diagram of the different amount of lift related to speed and angle of attack ;
- the explanation of the stall ….

So the arrow of the wind on the body , I repeat , are to make clear the concept than the air ( differently respect was imaginable at that time ) goes from the head to the feet (alimenting the “body wing” ) .
Now is obvious , observing the up representation of the wing , than this airflow will be different in relation of the different typologies and moments of the flights.

In any case , is not enough considering only the asset of the body for determinate the airflow direction , you need take in consideration the SPEED too , actually just the normal aerodinamics concept to be applyed to all the kind of wings .
So that’s why was a big part on this sketch the WING explination .


Actually most of the people I present Atmonauti have not complain about the diagrams , but see the criticism of someone , and open to accept the critique and the different point of view , I have decide to modify the 2 sketch adding some text and some images , with the aim of avoid different interpretation or confusion , and make it clear the original meaning . I hope than can be appreciate , and I’m very happy to receive your feed back.


Quote:
GENFREEFLY : ... paragraphs man. start to utilize paragraphs.
i call them 'atmo-graphs'. i invented them

… try to improve … I start to paragraphs … actually is better …. Great invention !!!
... Thanks for the advise (I’m serious !)
Attachments: schema-Atmo-3- foto.jpg (252 KB)
  Atmo-LIFT-text.jpg (291 KB)


lurch  (D 27583)

Jul 6, 2011, 9:16 PM
Post #85 of 117 (1748 views)
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Re: [marcoT] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

I hate to say it but the pics you put up look an awful lot like people without wingsuits flying like they had wingsuits combined with Timecube, which can be found here:

http://www.timecube.com/

Are you sure you don't really just wanna get a wingsuit?
-B


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 6, 2011, 9:26 PM
Post #86 of 117 (1748 views)
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Re: [marcoT] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Your second attachment still shows the same ridiculous claim that you are getting lift at a zero angle of attack.

In reply to:
the sketch are INDICATIVE, made for skydiver to understand

No, it is not indicative, it is wrong. I suggest that many simply find the sketch to be ridiculous. For others that don't know any better, you are telling them to believe something that is not true. That is not a good thing in any way.

Why is it necessary to show this incorrectly? Explaining your way of having fun in the air is not aided by this misrepresentation. It takes away from the big picture you are trying to explain, because people will think atmo flyers are delusional. I suggest that you give on this point, as there is no good reason to knowingly have such a false diagram - it does not help others to understand. That understanding can be achieved without the false diagram.


marcoT

Jul 6, 2011, 10:14 PM
Post #87 of 117 (1737 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

ok , understand .. some one will never change their negative attitude !!!
Really no problem ... especially in this case , because be ridiculed by someone that say with incredible sure than at 0 angle of attack there is no lift , sincerely make me happy , because put in evidence the total incompetence of who are talking so bad against atmonauti ...

More than one time in the atmonauti discussions people with more aerodynamics knowledge have confirm that can exist lift also at 0 angle of attack !!!!

Exist people that in front a white thing still affirm that is black .... their problem

I defenelly don't care to convince this kind of people .... I'm sure the majority of who read know and understand very well what I'm saying.

There is people that want to try doing something positive , and people that want just destroyed and vandalize what do not like .... I don't care to be considerate delusional by this people , sure than there is many others that thinks the reverse and appreciates our effort ... Every day there is more and more people flying atmonauti in the world ..... and this is the important !


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 6, 2011, 11:14 PM
Post #88 of 117 (1727 views)
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Re: [marcoT] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
More than one time in the atmonauti discussions people with more aerodynamics knowledge have confirm that can exist lift also at 0 angle of attack !!!!

You can get such lift due to the shape of a wing, and the rig can provide that shape to an extent. However, you atmonuts also atmoflail around on your back, so the rig wouldn't be helping in that regard. In order to get lift in that instance, you would indeed need an angle of attack.

In reply to:
Exist people that in front a white thing still affirm that is black .... their problem

I defenelly don't care to convince this kind of people .... I'm sure the majority of who read know and understand very well what I'm saying.

In your previous post, I thought that by admitting the picture was "INDICATIVE", that you were acknowledging that it wasn't true. Now you seem to be backpedaling on that. I don't know why. That diagram is a prime reason for the ridicule.

I'm sure it is fun, and quite challenging. You are wrong to think I want to destroy/vandalize what you have developed (except for a couple of atmo-insults, it is hard to resist).

In reply to:
Exist people that in front a white thing still affirm that is black .... their problem

You're the one having trouble with the facts. Again, I thought you had acknowledged that,

In reply to:
Every day there is more and more people flying atmonauti in the world ..... and this is the important !

Great for having fun in the sky. I also think it is important to not misrepresent the facts.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Jul 6, 2011, 11:16 PM)


Frankyspanky

Jul 7, 2011, 1:09 AM
Post #89 of 117 (1714 views)
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Re: [lurch] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I hate to say it but the pics you put up look an awful lot like people without wingsuits flying like they had wingsuits combined with Timecube, which can be found here:

http://www.timecube.com/

Are you sure you don't really just wanna get a wingsuit?
-B

Ad hominem attacks are not very intellegent. You could be positive in your approach or you could be negative.

The choice is yours but that type of post does nothing for your credibility.

For the brigade of ribbers...
grow the fuck up will ya...

LOL.

Atmo is awesome, and if you lot are not into it, and are not contributing to the conversation... go and have your own conversation eslwhere will ya.Wink


(This post was edited by Frankyspanky on Jul 7, 2011, 1:12 AM)


marcoT

Jul 7, 2011, 8:03 AM
Post #90 of 117 (1678 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

I read again the word “TRACE” or “TRACING” ….

Somebody affirm that is a NEW and DIFFERENT technique related to Atmonauti , because is more fast (?!?) … So when I was flying with the Porter , or when I was fly the freestyle (faster position , see the pictures) with Gigliola , I was “TRACING” and not use the just discover NEW ATMONAUTI TECHNIQUE !!! And again , when you make an head down faster without docs (as in the beautiful Chronicle 3 Nectar jumps with Mike Wail hi-speed) you do not define a new technique with another name …. You are define that “FAST HEAD DOWN” …. No something different with another technique that need other definitions !!! 100% the same technique !
Te facts and the true are very different : I can tell to who affirm this statement about “TRACE” , that for sure in 1999 when we was fly Amonauti with the airplane (with doc too) , or in the Gigliola fast positions free style , even the word "Trace" was not existing !!! ... Is another evident attempt of use the Technique Atmonauti with other names , trying someone do not recognize Atmonauti and put on it his definition ! Any way history is too clear in the matter ....

And in any case , admitting that I’m wrong , the question are :
- Can somebody explicate what it is ?
- What the difference respect Atmonauti ( not say highest speed … we already demonstrate with facts , than the first presentation of Atmonauti was in fast Gigliola freestyle positions , fast flying with the airplane … check the pictures in the previous post-attach )
- Who create ““Trace”” and when ?
- Where we can found the theory of “Trace”, and the angles explanation ?
- Where we can found articles , pictures , explination made by his creator about the “Trace” ?

There is somebody that can answer this question with some concrete argumentation ?

To add elements in the evaluation of who read , I will tell this story : in 2004 we were at Perris with the X-team and we have made a lot of atmo flights , also in no contact with highest speed . One time , for trying different style , we did one jump of this supposed “Babylon Trace style” lead by Stefan Fardel : after the exit , here we go with a perfect fast atmo-flight with no contact … I was behind all the other guys flying on the back , I come up to Fardel and I take a double hands dock in both of his feet , flying till the break off . After the landing with all the team together , Eli and the other guys congratulate with me for the dock and I say to Stefan : “Nice Atmonauti jump this Trace” and he answered embarrassed : “Yes of course” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…..

Actually is from long time that somebody try to rename Atmonauti with other definitions … (this confirm the 100% validity of the theory ! ) so than finally today , the operation of trying to use the technique hiding and ridicule Atmonauti , come in a crucial phase …

In the attach , any way , you can observe what I’m talking ….

And again : far from me try to convince who see a black thing also if is white …. The important are the thousands of people understand very well this evidence (not just word , as for who discredit atmonauti) !
Are very significative the private message I receive from the people who read , that I can understand , do not want expose their selves sure to be attack and isolate by the atmo-destroyer …. Mostly they thank me for my effort , and they are embarrassed to see so much derespect and so much negative attitude ….

To them I say : ask you why exist from 12 years a system that allows to learn fast in a very cheap way , that is ridiculize and keep it hide at the community , by someone offering expensive 1-o-1 coaching ???!!!

Remember : Atmonauti have no copyright , no trade mark , no royalties … just a system explicate and evidently offer to the community FOR FREE from year 2000 ! … You can Learn by yourself reading the texts and observing the thousands of video public from 2000 (… the aim was play in a massive dimension this great new possibilities , allows the hi-level flyers playing in the base with complex typologies of games and allows the beginners to join the flights more on the outside , learning the technique in a very safe way !!!!) …. Someone have learn the technique in the beginning , and now is trying to ridiculize or hide Atmonauti to put on it his definition …. Very unfair , and perfect to confuse the ideas of who are learning ! I repeat : ask you why they are play this unfair game .

Somebody still affirm that Atmonauti is like “scientology religion” , but If I do not remember wrong , those person were asking money to people …. Here the question is the exactly reverse … Ask you in which side so is the “scientology” attitude ….. Any way this “religion” , as somebody try to relegate atmonauti , have permit a lot of amazing new possibilities , offered to the community for FREE …. I’m not sure this “religion” argumentation will have many fans.

So waiting the “TRACE” documents , let’s continue the work to inform correctly the people without just words.

Enjoy the huge possibilities of the technique Atmonauti !
Attachments: atmonauti - trace.jpg (88.0 KB)


yeyo  (D 32048)

Jul 7, 2011, 9:01 AM
Post #91 of 117 (1668 views)
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Re: [marcoT] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember when I started to read about this Atmonauti thing. I was new to the sport and had no idea what you guys were talking about. But I remember many people asking for GPS data and I still haven't seen any. Can you please provide some?
Now we do a lot of this kind of jumps at my home DZ, but we just call it steep tracking.

So, can we see the GPS data? I'll lend you my Wintec or my Flysight if you need it.


lurch  (D 27583)

Jul 7, 2011, 9:29 AM
Post #92 of 117 (1661 views)
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Re: [Frankyspanky] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Alright, I'll be more positive then.

That wasn't an attack so much as a humorous observation... The objective was to point out that the whole thing has become rather over-the-top.

The reason so much ribbing is happening here is because of the excessive and often inaccurate ways Atmo is being presented which does even less for -their- credibility.

Making a big deal out of what little lift anyone is generating at a 45 degree angle and claiming that flying around the effect is some kind of massive sport-changing revolution in skydiving is what causes the atmo enthusiasts to be taken less than seriously.

I'd be into Atmo if it were done around here because as I said, I've been playing around with variations on linear-airflow type skydives and they're an absolute blast. Up and Down start becoming very relative concepts. Flying anywhere within about a 90 degree wide cone from true headdown vertical opens up some VERY thrilling possibilities for movement in unusual speeds and directions relative to others on the dive.

Since its not truly linear airflow once you tilt off vertical what you get is a situation where the relative wind's direction is always head to foot but the planar airflow you're "leaning" on can come from either front or back depending on which way you're facing and which way you tilt relative to vertical.

To me this beats hell out of plain old headdown because its a lot less static and introduces strong side forces making for a VERY dynamic skydive.

If they wanna promote Atmo, cool, I'd like to see more creative jumping happening. But promote it for the fun factor and with actual accurate descriptions of the things you can do. Putting up incoherent and inaccurate charts and complicated wacky jargon full of grandiose claims that does look like it was taken straight off a crackpot website is the problem.

Seriously, the image they project is so out to lunch I'd be embarassed to admit I WAS actually doing atmo just because I wouldn't want to be associated with the hype they put out. I'd just tell people I'm doing a bunch of steep dives to explore diagonal stuff and leave out all the noise.
-B


winnt

Jul 7, 2011, 2:47 PM
Post #93 of 117 (1630 views)
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Re: [yeyo] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
.... I remember many people asking for GPS data and I still haven't seen any.
Hmmmm,
you've been in sport for 6 years and you're so radical with your thoughts?? You've never seen it, therefore it probably never existed?

There used to be a kind of fun competition called "Tracking Derby" and some of the best performers we've seen so far said they were using an angle instead of being parallel to the ground with FS suit
http://www.skydiveempuriabrava.com/...-TRACKING_DERBY.html
I'll let you do the online search for datas on some DZ

I am not a flyer, just a simple guy... I just ask skydivers to be cool, open your mind, travel a lot and meet other skydivers and discover new stuffs. And if someone said he has invented something, so what?? just cool and get a beer after the sunset.

Talking about the lift, thanks to the tunnels, I think a lot of folks here particularly pro flyers are able today to fly vertical at a very low speed (that simply impossible for most of us). I just consider the pictures shown above as a sketch trying to explain if you do that then you will considerably reduce your vertical speed and go farther (Then wingsuit flyer will say just come with us and you will fly for 3 minutes Wink And another guy will tell you with two mini engines you can even go up and stay in the sky fo an hour )


yeyo  (D 32048)

Jul 7, 2011, 3:17 PM
Post #94 of 117 (1624 views)
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Re: [winnt] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

What are you, his lawyer?
Where did I said it never existed? I just said I havent seen it.
And Im not talking about the tracking derby. A solo jump focused on performance is not the same as a "atmonauti" group jump.
Why is so difficult for him to provide GPS data? He has spent years experimenting with that.
Something like: "Hey, heres the GPS file of an atmo 4way, and we did 8 points". Hes done hundreds of those, shouldnt be too hard to share some data. Crazy


winnt

Jul 7, 2011, 5:10 PM
Post #95 of 117 (1609 views)
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Re: [yeyo] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok,
sorry I don't know nothing about the so called atmonauti but the name.
As Simon Bones said on the first page, I personnaly call any 3D flying a Free Fly Cool ....

But really, nowadays, with new techniques, do you really need a GPS data to see the displacements of angle flying?? You can see a lot of amazing stuffs from skydive sebastian. I invite you to go up there and integrate a group with your own gps.

As I am concerned, I don't like competition nor points, just fun

There are a lot of big clouds at my place so I love angle flying (between, around or just parallel to the clouds) and today you have a lot of guys who master blind carving in tunnel, they just rock the sky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4h1yG6OGA
simply Freefly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxMJvlu4VfQ


yeyo  (D 32048)

Jul 7, 2011, 5:40 PM
Post #96 of 117 (1603 views)
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Re: [winnt] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In reply to:
... You can see a lot of amazing stuffs from skydive sebastian. I invite you to go up there and integrate a group with your own gps.


Thanks for the invite man Smile
Heres 2 jumps from my last time there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJq4c-TM3Ak


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Jul 7, 2011, 8:23 PM
Post #97 of 117 (1587 views)
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Re: [marcoT] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly don't care what people call it. The semantics are of little value in the overall discussion about what's possible in freefall. Who invented it and when is really of no concern to me, just as who invented head down and when doesn't really concern me either.

The discussion about free fall (it's falling guys, we're not flying) techniques is really interesting and has a lot of value but please stop getting hung up on the names. When I say "Trace" you can substitute "Atmonauti" in its place because they're the same thing to me.

The only difference is "Atmonauti" has a bunch of stigma attached to it (in some parts of the world) because of the way it's sold to people as the second coming where as "Tracing" does not.

To clarify, I'm just as happy to go on an Atmonauti jump as a Tracing jump because they're the same thing *as far as I'm concerned*.


(This post was edited by danielcroft on Jul 7, 2011, 8:25 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 11, 2011, 10:29 AM
Post #98 of 117 (1465 views)
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Re: [genfreefly] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


Zenister  (A 42)

Jul 11, 2011, 10:13 PM
Post #99 of 117 (1435 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
What makes it harder in the US is that no one does it but it doesn't matter.
like not Gabe Matta at SDAZ ? (for example)

Zoom Zoom! Bitches!

much less clichish than 'atmonauti'


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Aug 14, 2011, 6:32 PM
Post #100 of 117 (1261 views)
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Re: [marcoT] Angle Flying/Atmonauti [In reply to] Can't Post

We got your prime pilots that get all the hot skydives, and we got your pud-knockers who dream about getting the hot skydives. Now what are you two pud-knockers gonna have? Huh?

Gimme a break dude. Go and do about 100 angle jumps, then come back and talk.

To quote myself from June of 2003, "Re: [sundevil777] Problem with atmonauti article in parachutist [In reply to] Can't Post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atmonauti has a good deal of characteristics about it which seperate its kind of flying from head-down flocking and flat fly tracking. Don't knock it until you try it - that is, try docking on a 4-way atmonauti base. It may not be as easy as you think.

If you get the angle right when flying, the 45º (+ or - a few) that the article mentions...then you may be able to note that it is a lot more sensitive to vertical adjustments and horizontal ones as well. Dialing in a two way dock can even be quite challenging without ample time in the sky. I am not talk about a fly up and grab; more of a fly over to your slot and calmly dock. It is just different...dialing in a steady and slow dock is a completely different story. It takes a lot more discipline imo.

The airspeed across your body (head to toe) is greater than tracking and very close to that of flocking. And this is the foundation which makes the dynamic more difficult. Because those who do it, I would guess only because I do, don't want to just move forward (although that is quite fun within itself)...we want to 360 turn, dock, change position, carve, go feet first, transition, and all the other fun stuff too.

In addition, the possibility of horizontal distance being greater than vertical distance...hmmm, not sure about that really. It doesn't make me laugh though; it just makes me think about - how could that be true? Never considered it. But greater distances are obtained in atmonauti than from tracking. If it is true, it is likely to be caused by the arch in body position (i believe the arch may cause more lift).

So I tend to understand where the writer was coming from. Please take a second to note that on these jumps the freeflyers are very hooked over on their backs or stomachs - this will provide a subtle lift - and at those speeds, a true 45º vector (or more) may be possible.

I've only got about 130 of these types of jumps under my belt now and continue to experiment everytime I get to the DZ. I, for one, hope the phenomenon continues to grow - it'll set your fuckin hair on fire if you do it right....and that ain't no shit."

~The Hooch


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