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Argus ban discussion (Was Argus Ban List)

 

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Sabre1Lucke  (D License)

Apr 18, 2011, 11:10 AM
Post #51 of 120 (1840 views)
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Re: [Skybear] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

Any news about the Argus ban?
Since the ban was so sudden... I would expect that PIA would inform skydiver with an Argus since they are on the ground at the moment.

So please, is there any more info yet?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Apr 18, 2011, 11:50 AM
Post #52 of 120 (1815 views)
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Re: [Sabre1Lucke] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

PIA did not push the ban, its members made the decision on each of their own rigs. Each rig maker will need to evaluate the evidence to see if they feel its enough to revoke the ban or if they need additional info/testing before they will do that.


Sabre1Lucke  (D License)

Apr 18, 2011, 12:07 PM
Post #53 of 120 (1819 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
PIA did not push the ban, its members made the decision on each of their own rigs. Each rig maker will need to evaluate the evidence to see if they feel its enough to revoke the ban or if they need additional info/testing before they will do that.
Thanks!


JCulver  (A 55781)

Apr 18, 2011, 3:41 PM
Post #54 of 120 (1768 views)
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Re: [Sabre1Lucke] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Any news about the Argus ban?
Since the ban was so sudden... I would expect that PIA would inform skydiver with an Argus since they are on the ground at the moment.

So please, is there any more info yet?

Kinda sitting here twiddling my thumbs at the moment too. I'm due for a repack. Not sure if I'm going to pull it and start jumping again, or sit on it for a couple more weeks and see where this thing goes.


Coreefdiver  (D 15287)

Apr 18, 2011, 5:10 PM
Post #55 of 120 (1742 views)
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Re: [JCulver] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

they shoulda just said to not power 'em up and remove at next repack so people were not hosed even further


Unstable  (D 28930)

Apr 18, 2011, 5:10 PM
Post #56 of 120 (1742 views)
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Re: [JCulver] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Kinda sitting here twiddling my thumbs at the moment too. I'm due for a repack. Not sure if I'm going to pull it and start jumping again, or sit on it for a couple more weeks and see where this thing goes.

I am keeping mine in (Racer, not banned) but I have a lot of folks at the DZ with Argus units in their dresser drawers. If anything, I'm surprised Sunpath hasn't removed the ban, given the location of the cutter....


tazsz  (C License)

Apr 19, 2011, 12:55 AM
Post #57 of 120 (1671 views)
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Re: [Unstable] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

I now begin to believe the claim from Argus against the PIA.
The ban on the Argus, as it looks by now, was put on easy without to much investigation. But now that the facts aren't so clear against Aviacom they refuse to lift the ban because they want to closely look at it?
It al begins to look a bit dirty. Looks like PIA is measuring in there own benefits


Sabre1Lucke  (D License)

Apr 19, 2011, 1:11 AM
Post #58 of 120 (2453 views)
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Re: [Unstable] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

Argus is not banned in my rig, but Argus is banned in Belgium and the Netherlands wich makes it even more difficult Crazy


tazsz  (C License)

Apr 19, 2011, 2:06 AM
Post #59 of 120 (2443 views)
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Re: [Sabre1Lucke] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

I know, I also have to deal with that.
I'm not far from the point that I will take my lost and let Cypress win.
I had it with this AAD soap.
I'm not in the industry nor a rigger, I can't decide who is right or wrong, I just wanna jump and have fun. I don't need this


sundevil777  (D License)

Apr 19, 2011, 3:54 AM
Post #60 of 120 (2414 views)
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Re: [tazsz] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems strange to me that we still haven't seen close up examination of that little ball.


mark  (D 6108)

Apr 19, 2011, 5:46 AM
Post #61 of 120 (2387 views)
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Re: [tazsz] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I now begin to believe the claim from Argus against the PIA.
The ban on the Argus, as it looks by now, was put on easy without to much investigation. But now that the facts aren't so clear against Aviacom they refuse to lift the ban because they want to closely look at it?
It al begins to look a bit dirty. Looks like PIA is measuring in there own benefits

PIA did not ban Argus. PIA cannot lift a ban they did not (and could not) impose.

Individual harness/container manufacturers disallowed Argus in their rigs. If you want to put an Argus in your rig, talk to the manufacturer of your rig.

What is disappointing is that Aviacom has not been more forthcoming with their investigation. They need to demonstrate how exactly how the steel ball interfered with the cutter. The best way to do that is to duplicate the cutter malfunction.

Mark


Donotbounce  (B 34365)

Apr 19, 2011, 6:58 AM
Post #62 of 120 (2365 views)
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Re: [mark] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

I was in contact with Aerodyne on another issue with my rig, once that was resolved, i inquired about them lifting the Argus ban in light of the results of the investigation. I was annoyed to say the least at their lack of response to my inquiry. On the other issue, they responded to my emails within a few hours. On my Argus question, it has been 5 days now with no response.

In the interim, I wish they would allow people to leave them in their rigs and turned off until this is resolved. I had my repack 1 week before this started and if I want to jump, I have to rent a rig or remove the Unit. But, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Apr 19, 2011, 7:12 AM
Post #63 of 120 (2359 views)
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Re: [Donotbounce] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In the interim, I wish they would allow people to leave them in their rigs and turned off until this is resolved.

Take the control head, put it in a small plastic bag, wrap it tightly with tape, and tuck it away somewhere on your rig, hidden in the backpad or whatever.

A look at the AAD control head window will show nothing. AAD? What AAD? All you've got is a hunk of metal in your rig, nothing that you can turn on to act as any sort of automatic activation device.

The FAA / DZ / rig companies might always disagree, but it is one avenue one can try.

Yeah I know, not many will like that idea, but it is one way of giving the finger to a lot of people while still complying fully with the the safety precautions implied by all the service bulletins -- to not create a hazard that might be caused by faulty cutting of the loop.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 19, 2011, 8:52 AM
Post #64 of 120 (2305 views)
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Re: [Donotbounce] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

>I wish they would allow people to leave them in their rigs and turned off until this is resolved.

So do that (after you inspect it and are 100% sure the cutter hasn't fired and jammed your rig closed.) There are no "Sunpath police" that will come and confiscate your rig. Riggers may not repack it the next time it needs a repack, but that's different than not allowing you to jump it. Only a DZO can decide that he doesn't want you jumping your (in-date) rig on his airplanes.


tazsz  (C License)

Apr 19, 2011, 3:20 PM
Post #65 of 120 (2230 views)
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Re: [mark] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I now begin to believe the claim from Argus against the PIA.
The ban on the Argus, as it looks by now, was put on easy without to much investigation. But now that the facts aren't so clear against Aviacom they refuse to lift the ban because they want to closely look at it?
It al begins to look a bit dirty. Looks like PIA is measuring in there own benefits

PIA did not ban Argus. PIA cannot lift a ban they did not (and could not) impose.

Individual harness/container manufacturers disallowed Argus in their rigs. If you want to put an Argus in your rig, talk to the manufacturer of your rig.

What is disappointing is that Aviacom has not been more forthcoming with their investigation. They need to demonstrate how exactly how the steel ball interfered with the cutter. The best way to do that is to duplicate the cutter malfunction.

Mark

Your right about that
And yes, Aviacoms actions or the lack of it are disappointing. In there efforts to proof they have to do nothing they totally forget about there customers but so are some of the manufacturers of rigs. If they are so concerned of our safety why did they approved it in the first place and react on information that had no independent investigation.
Lifting the ban now would be in the same line as putting a ban on it without proper information
By now no one knows what to believe, but we still are grounded. No AAD is no option in Belgian, they are mandatory


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Apr 19, 2011, 7:21 PM
Post #66 of 120 (2188 views)
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Re: [tazsz] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

Can we take parts of this conversation to a new thread and keep this thread focused on the list of rigs/countries that currently have taken a stance either for or against having the Argus installed?


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
May 1, 2011, 4:17 PM
Post #67 of 120 (1297 views)
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Re: Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

I moved this to it's own thread as the conversation has drifted away from the intent of the original thread. Please use this thread to discuss this issue and the other one for SB's and updates to the ban list.






holie  (A License)

May 6, 2011, 2:12 AM
Post #70 of 120 (975 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,

are there any new ideas round there?
Any reaction of the rig manufacturers?
Any of Aviacom?
Any of PIA?

Anybody mentioned anything the last weeks?
Or do they just let their customer starve out hanging arount not jumping?

looking forward
Holger


tazsz  (C License)

May 6, 2011, 2:34 AM
Post #71 of 120 (974 views)
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Re: [holie] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder how many people still jump there Argus switched on. I started doing that sinds it looks like it doesn't have any priority anymore.
Not for Aviacom,PIA or even the Dz's. So if no one looks what kind of AAD I use I'll keep on doing this till my next repack. Imo this is safer then jumping without one. If no one takes us serious why should I take them serious


(This post was edited by tazsz on May 6, 2011, 2:42 AM)


kalaniwavo  (B License)

May 6, 2011, 1:00 PM
Post #72 of 120 (874 views)
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Re: [holie] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

exactly, seems like everyone involved (PIA,Argus,manufacturers) has been extremely quiet lately. I wonder what, if anything, is going on behind the scenes. Are we waiting on an investigation? Are we waiting on a cutter redesign? what's going on to resolve the dispute between Argus and the PIA? or is this it....?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 6, 2011, 1:20 PM
Post #73 of 120 (860 views)
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Re: [holie] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

>Anybody mentioned anything the last weeks?

PIA just released a pretty comprehensive overview of the issue. Check out the "Argus ban list" thread at the top of the forum. It lists the four incidents that led to some manufacturer's decisions.


rhys  (D 95)

May 6, 2011, 1:36 PM
Post #74 of 120 (851 views)
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Re: [billvon] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

Kirk smith relesed his report well before that, you moderators were issued that report aksed to post it so it came from a neutral source and failed to post it.

People talk (thats why I know about it).

Kirks report is mentioned and linked in this latest report. But why was kirk smiths report not posted when you were in posession of it for the last few days?

Did you not like his conclusons?

You have warned me about my tone in my posts, but there is no vicious tone here, just a question.

An important one.


(This post was edited by rhys on May 6, 2011, 1:40 PM)


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
May 6, 2011, 2:14 PM
Post #75 of 120 (816 views)
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Re: [rhys] Argus Ban List [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Kirk smith relesed his report well before that, you moderators were issued that report aksed to post it so it came from a neutral source and failed to post it.

People talk (thats why I know about it).

Kirks report is mentioned and linked in this latest report. But why was kirk smiths report not posted when you were in posession of it for the last few days?

Did you not like his conclusons?

You have warned me about my tone in my posts, but there is no vicious tone here, just a question.

An important one.


The person that brought it to my attention was directed to post it here in this unlocked thread several days ago but never did so. Contact them and ask why they did not post it here. It was not posted in the locked "ARGUS ban list" thread because that thread was created to serve as a sole source where people could find information on which H/C manufacturers, and or governing bodies are currently banning the ARGUS. Which is what I explained to the person who brought it to my attention.


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