Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Dealer Problem

 

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jtnesbitt  (B 30189)

Mar 8, 2011, 7:20 AM
Post #76 of 146 (2961 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

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From the outside looking in... It looks like Gary is a "nice guy" who tried to bend the rules and go the extra mile for customers. The problem looks like the "nice guy" persona over-took the business needs and it all got into a big mess.

We had to let a guy go a few years back for some legal issues. Later found out he screwed a lot more people than us and the FBI had arrested him. Every time someone found out they would be like "Oh no! Not Bob!? I never would have guessed that because Bob is such a nice guy."

Moral of the story...if someone was an asshole would you do business with them or let them get close enough to you to screw you? Of course not. What about a "nice" guy? That's how conmen work.


pnuwin  (D 112233)

Mar 8, 2011, 3:05 PM
Post #77 of 146 (2867 views)
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Re: [jtnesbitt] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Moral of the story...if someone was an asshole would you do business with them or let them get close enough to you to screw you? Of course not. What about a "nice" guy? That's how conmen work.

Please don't associate Gary with conmen. Karnage Krew supplied me with my first rig and all my gear several years back. I had no issues. Gary bent over backwards to help me get into the sport. To be completely honest, I don't think I would have done this many jumps and stayed in the sport if he didn't help me with gear and provided his demo rig and payment options.

It's very disappointing what is happening to Karnage Krew and all those affected. Australians get ripped off with outrageous gear prices and Karnage Krew provided much needed competition.

Like many other small businesses that run into trouble, owners sometimes fuck up. I've heard all the rumours about Gary and even if they're all true, it doesn't change the fact that Karnage Krew had some great ideas and helped many skydivers. I'm not defending any of Gary's actions here but I do think he started out with the right intentions.

Not everyone will solve their small business challenges. Sounds like Gary has fucked up big time and is paying the price. It's very sad that many creditors are also affected. Big financial institutions have failed in the past with significantly more money lost and people affected. Conmen let businesses fail but still receive million dollar bonuses and drive a Porche.


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Mar 8, 2011, 5:39 PM
Post #78 of 146 (2835 views)
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Re: [pnuwin] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

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Australians get ripped off with outrageous gear prices and Karnage Krew provided much needed competition.

I'd rather pay outrageous prices and get something than pay for a cheap rig and get nothing.


pnuwin  (D 112233)

Mar 8, 2011, 5:56 PM
Post #79 of 146 (2825 views)
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Re: [johnmatrix] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

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Quote:
In Reply To
Australians get ripped off with outrageous gear prices and Karnage Krew provided much needed competition.

I'd rather pay outrageous prices and get something than pay for a cheap rig and get nothing.

Me too, but having competition at least keeps the other dealers in check. I know at least one other Australian dealer who copied Karnage Krew's gear bundles and lowered their prices in response to the competition.


Rigless

Mar 9, 2011, 7:01 AM
Post #80 of 146 (2721 views)
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Re: [pnuwin] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Besides the gear / money theft from the people who ordered and never received what I also do not tolerate at all is lying and avoidance and that's what he is doing for a long while now..

Prosecution should be in order now.


jtnesbitt  (B 30189)

Mar 9, 2011, 7:14 AM
Post #81 of 146 (2736 views)
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Re: [pnuwin] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I apologize if i offended you and your relationship with gary. I do however see this thing happen all the time. In my opinion however someone being negligent is someone being negligent, even if it's due to ignorance. I am sorry, and I am sure he is a nice guy, but i saw warning flags over 2 years ago when he was selling canopies far below what everyone else was. Margins like that just arent sustainable in the long run and that is not a business I would do business with. Many people saw this coming for a long time.

I am sure Gary is a nice guy, but his ignorance/negligence cost a lot of people a lot of money. You say him getting you gear helped you get into the sport. What would have happened if you invested in a full set up and then never got it? Would you have been able to continue? Because thats where a lot of people are right now.


pnuwin  (D 112233)

Mar 9, 2011, 3:24 PM
Post #82 of 146 (2635 views)
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Re: [jtnesbitt] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I am sure Gary is a nice guy, but his ignorance/negligence cost a lot of people a lot of money. You say him getting you gear helped you get into the sport. What would have happened if you invested in a full set up and then never got it? Would you have been able to continue? Because thats where a lot of people are right now.

Make no mistake, I'm NOT defending any of Gary's actions. When talking to those involved at my dropzone I've put myself in their shoes. I could have just as easily been one to lose money as well. I don't know Gary well enough to say he's a nice guy. However, I can say that Gary never went into business with the intention to fail. Ignorance, negligence, personal make up and lack of discipline will contribute to that.

The fact that so many people are owed money and gear now makes it irrelevant how well Karnage Krew did in the past. People and businesses will always be known by their last actions, especially when things go wrong.

I just wanted to point out that people weren't sucked in by a complete con. There was once a business with the right intentions, with good ideas and with successful deals. I'm very sorry for all those having issues now.


johnmatrix  (D 9999)

Mar 10, 2011, 1:09 PM
Post #83 of 146 (2510 views)
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Re: [pnuwin] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

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I don't know Gary well enough to say he's a nice guy.

I didn't know him very well but having met Gary face to face I can assure you he definitely came across as a pretty cool guy.
I think that's partly how he managed to get himself so far into the hole - whilst everyone was sick of his constant excuses I think most people who met him thought that eventually, one day, the gear would be there. Well, once they'd given over their money I guess there wasn't much choice. So they believed all his lies because it was easier than accepting the alternative - I suspect he even believed them himself. 'Denial isn't just a river in Egypt'...

Honestly I could still believe that he may one day pay off his debts. But in the meantime, a lot of people are going to have to source a rig from elsewhere.






fprista

Mar 20, 2011, 1:00 PM
Post #86 of 146 (2085 views)
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Re: [pnuwin] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry but I disagree with you! I've also purchased a complete rig to Gary and 10 moths after he sent me everything but the main canopy!! All good quality but I was a bit annoyed with the time he took!!!
But not happy at all with the fact that the main canopy wasn't in there with the delivery! Since then it has been a series of lame excuses and lies and 6 months after I'm still waiting for a canopy!
If things that Gary said were true I would have by now 2 canopies with me!!! How many do I have? NONE. I just don't know what happens to the parcels that Gary sends that suddenly disappear?


Rigless

Mar 20, 2011, 5:50 PM
Post #87 of 146 (2026 views)
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Re: [fprista] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeh and there's a funny trend of mainly mainly main canopies disappearing / not being delivered / lost...

Same here, I got my container + reserve, but no canopy, even while talkin through NZaero trying to get him to send it to them so they could send me it directly themselves, but again the canopy got "lost" during shipping..

I hope Gary gets what he deserves.
























andreeb77  (D License)

Mar 28, 2011, 10:08 AM
Post #99 of 146 (1336 views)
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Re: [yoink] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Could the moderators please tidy up this mess. Up until now this thread was (more or less) on the point. Crazy


Bildo  (A License)

Apr 25, 2011, 6:07 AM
Post #100 of 146 (997 views)
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Re: [andreeb77] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been watching this thread for a while now. I paid a deposit, came across this thread, ignored it after nothing happened for a while and then came across it again once I found out I'd just lost over 8 grand on a rig....

This was one big failure from the beginning, unfortunately it took a while to finally crash, instead of a few short months like it should have.


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