Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Dealer Problem

 

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bigway

Feb 15, 2011, 5:27 PM
Post #26 of 146 (2802 views)
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Re: [andreeb77] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not an authorized PD dealer and have never claimed to be.
I purchase my PD canopies through a supplier, not the manufacturer. Never have I claimed that.
Everything else we sell is purchased through the manufacturers directly.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 15, 2011, 7:30 PM
Post #27 of 146 (2771 views)
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Re: [bigway] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I never for a second thought I would end up in this position and it happened very quickly due to personal and financial situations

One thing should have nothing to do with the other. If a customer pays you for a product, you can't just spend their money on whatever you want. It's not yours to spend, and it's stealing. The profit is yours to spend, but the portion that is intended to cover your cost of the goods is not yours, it is simply in your custody and doing anything with it but pay your supplier is a deriliction of your duty.

It doesn't help that you're Mr Big Shot who ordered a fleet of demo rigs, and now has a 'flashy' new retial store. Ever thought about pulling a 143R out of one of those demo rigs, and sending it to the guy who started this thread?

Don't have a 143R? How about selling two of your 176s or 193s and sending the guy his money back?

If these people really did pay you for gear which you never ordered or delivered to them, and you're sitting on a pile of demo rigs, which can be parted out or sold off, and they're sitting on nothing, don't expect any sympathy, understanding, cooperation, or anything besides bad feelings and ill will.

You are the one who mismanaged your business, you are the one who spent money that wasn't yours, and now you are the one who needs to have a fire sale on all of your inventory to people their money back. Your business with your 'investors' is not their problem, that's your problem, and they shouldn't have to wait for you to solve your problems, which you created, to get their money/gear in their hands.


andreeb77  (D License)

Feb 15, 2011, 10:11 PM
Post #28 of 146 (2729 views)
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Re: [bigway] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't even know where to begin. Luckily Dave already wrote some very good stuff.

In reply to:
Not only did you get the gear at dealer pricing but now I have to pay your countries VAT. Now you moan when I was honest to you and told you I'm having financially difficulties.

I asked you for a quote, you stated a price, I payed. It can't be my problem, if it was under priced, sorry!

I'm not moaning and you haven't been honest with me. As a last resort I went to a public forum (without naming names BTW) to ask for opinions and advice. You lied to me when you said that the money was on its way....three times! I understand that it is hard to be honest and tell a customer that you don't have his money anymore but hey you gotta have balls, don't you?

In reply to:
Andree take me to court and sue me for not paying German vat and duty

That's not really the issue here, is it? The responsibility for paying VAT and duty is on the side of the customer (and we payed VAT and duties for the rig). You offered to take over these costs!

I wish you luck with saving your business and I wish your customers luck with getting their gear/money.


bigway

Feb 15, 2011, 10:26 PM
Post #29 of 146 (2723 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a business, money goes in an out of it everyday. Different manufacturers have different payment terms and different customers have different payment terms. It's called cash-flow.
It's not stealing at all, you don't just receive money from a customer for one product and then pay it to the manufacturer, as they don't want payment until they invoice you. Some invoice you straight away, some invoice in seven months, some in three months. We also have customers on payment plans.

I'm no mr bigshot. Imnsomeone who tried a new thing and I messed up. If you're calling me a thief then your ignorant. Nobody has lost anything and nothing has been stolen.
You have half a story and you make these stupid accusations.
Why would I send someonea reserve when we already sent it and it was lost in the post and can not be claimed on insurance cause they demanded it to be under valued and the day they got taxed for half their gear they demand we pay it?
Seriously, why?

Anyway, I'm done with this thread, far too much speculation, I never should of said anything to begin with.
If I was to sell my demo containers and canopies I would be done for theft due to my agreements with manufacturers. Another point you have speculated on with no understanding.

Discuss all your speculations all you like in these forums, all you are doing is speculating and I don't have time to waste sitting here arguing over your accusations.

Business's go bankrupt all the time and it is not called stealing. I suggest you stop getting people worked up with that sort of crap as I'm doing what I can not to go bankrupt and to make sure everyone gets what they want. It's bullshit like what you are writing that makes me think going bankrupt wouldnt be such a bad so I don't have to listen to this crap.
As for selling my inventory and all this crap, again, ou have mo idea what I'm doing to save this business, I've said I'm doing everything I can, so quit it with your pedastool.

As for sympathy, I don't expect anything from anyone in here but I would think as a community that would help each other, not tear me apart and call me a thief trying to make sure nobody trusts me as then the only option I do have is to wrap te business up and call it a day....legally and ethically. It is business. If that's what you'd rather me do, just let me know as I could handle going and getting a job that will pay my household bills.

Anymore death threats on myself and my family through emails phone calls of private message on this website will be reported to the police.


bigway

Feb 15, 2011, 10:59 PM
Post #30 of 146 (2701 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave really don't know what else to say except I'm doing everything I can to make right by people. It is a huge lesson learned and I'm trying to do the right thing.

I can not post here anymore as it will drive me to giving up and I really don't want to do that.
I need to put my head down and resolve the situation, not sit here and explain myself.

I'm gettin death threats and my partner is scared and I'm nit going to take much more of this. Those who have threatened to kill my partner and children that I don't have while hiding behind a keyboard are the lowest form of this community. You can be certain it has been reported to Interpol


Sangis

Feb 15, 2011, 11:25 PM
Post #31 of 146 (2693 views)
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Re: [bigway] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sangi, you only tell half your story a every other post where you moan about people. Don't forget how you 'needed' me to ship your canopy undervalued to get out if taxes, only for your canopy to be returned to me twice now and then you even asked me to delay shipping it for a further two months ao you could save to pay the taxes. Your canopy is sittin her right next to me and you know that, yet you still tell people you don't get replies from me. I just don't know if I want to spend another $200 sendingit toyou for the third time. I have told you to organize your own shipping after you cost me fortune.

I'm not denying that I asked you to hold it for a while after it was manufactured, because I couldn't pay the full taxes at that time.

I asked you, yes to maybe help me find a way to avoid tax, you willingly agreed (never forced you) to try and help me out.. I waited, the communication from you started fading away over the course of autumn and winter and I was left in the unknown on what's happening or what the plan was.. Before christmas you contacted me saying that the canopy is being held at my country's customs and that it should be released after the holidays..

Apparently the canopy was returned back to you.. I don't blame you for any kind of problems why the customs didn't pass my canopy. So now I asked you to ship it via courier.

I was constantly writing to your emails / FB with questions about how's the shipping going / any tracking numbers etc. I wouldn't get any straightforward reply, but that you would look it up the next day and provide the needed info. I write one mail, wait for a week, two and then I get the same reply.. So I got frustrated of being in the unknown and contacted the manufacturer and also posted in this thread..

I never intended any business harm to you / your company. I just want strong communication on how to sort this problem out so we'd all be happy..


bigway

Feb 16, 2011, 4:28 AM
Post #32 of 146 (2631 views)
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Re: [Sangis] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Ignas thanks for the email you sent my way. I appreciate it and will get your canopy back in the mail tomorrow via a courier.
You seem to be a good guy and it seems we have both bent over backwards for each other.
Andree, check your email. Let's get this sorted. I have no intentions to leave you out of pocket. I'm just having a shitty time and take things personally as it kills me that I'm letting people down. Trust me on one thing, I would live in a cardboard box if I have to to make sure my customers all get what they have paid for. Sorry.


Sangis

Feb 16, 2011, 4:58 AM
Post #33 of 146 (2610 views)
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Re: [bigway] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's hope we can all get sorted and end this nonsense Smile


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 16, 2011, 7:14 AM
Post #34 of 146 (2569 views)
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Re: [bigway] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
It's called cash-flow.
It's not stealing at all, you don't just receive money from a customer for one product and then pay it to the manufacturer, as they don't want payment until they invoice you

Cannibalizing customer pre-payments is not a part of 'cash flow'. If your supplier doesn't want paid immediately (and I've never met a supplier that wouldn't accept early payment, some even offer a discount for cash-up-front) it's up to you to hold the cost of goods in escrow until the payment is due. It's not your money, it was never intended to be your money, and if you spent it as your own, that was your error and your responsibility to fix.

In terms of odd dealings like mis-represented customs value, or improperly insured packages, again, that's on you as the business owner to not be a party to. Simply refuse to be a part to any illegal dealings, and wrap the cost of fully insured shipping with your prefered carrier into your price quotes.

I've been in business for myself for almost 10 years, and I know what it means to play it fast and loose with the company finances, and this is exactly what you did. It's the classic ponzi scheme where you do business with money that isn't yours, and everything is great until the owner of the money wants to be paid (or recieve their goods).

Like I said, you fix any outstanding problems you have with anyone in a week if you sold off those demo rigs, or anything esle you could get your hands on. At this point, those items are all 'ill gotten gains' and you certainly don't deserve to hold on to them. You can point fingers all day long, but until we see your ads in the classifieds at fire sale prices, it's all just talk.


bigway

Feb 16, 2011, 4:21 PM
Post #35 of 146 (2472 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Those demo rigs were purchased before the new company even opened it's doors. They are not I'll gotten gains. They were purchased with start up capital.
Again, you continue to speculate.
You also don't know what agreements I have with manufacturers over those demo rigs an what percentage they own of them. Please stop speculating. The rest you say 'may' be right, but stop with the speculation as all you are doing is making a situation worse for me.


liftedtitan

Feb 16, 2011, 5:43 PM
Post #36 of 146 (2442 views)
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Re: [bigway] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

what I don't understand, is how the hell the price of a few rigs/canopies can have you in that much trouble? Thats how fine of a line you are operating with? Just refund the money, probably a total of what 10,000-15,000? If thats enough to put you out of business, then maybe it is time for you to close the doors.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Feb 19, 2011, 5:59 PM
Post #37 of 146 (2273 views)
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Re: [bigway] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess the amount owed me is small compared to the others. Unimpressed


tayra

Feb 26, 2011, 4:33 AM
Post #38 of 146 (2030 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

What can people who have current; yet to be placed orders who have prepaid expect from this? money refunded? legal proceedings? or will they be left flat out of pocket.


virgin-burner

Feb 26, 2011, 4:43 AM
Post #39 of 146 (2024 views)
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Re: [tayra] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

wish for good luck!

if it helps, i wish you the same.. Unimpressed


Deyan  (D 322)

Feb 26, 2011, 6:47 AM
Post #40 of 146 (1992 views)
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Re: [andreeb77] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm trying to understand why somebody who lives in Germany,Switzerland or Denmark will buy stuff made in USA from a dealer in Australia????
Why not from the local dealer? Or a dealer from USA?

I'm not trying to criticize you guys, I'm just trying to understand why.

Blue skies


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 26, 2011, 7:12 AM
Post #41 of 146 (1986 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm not trying to criticize you guys, I'm just trying to understand why

According to his earlier post, this dealer was willing to play the game with customs and declared values, so one angle would be that international customers could save a ton of dough on the various import taxes their countries charge.

Aside from that, who knows? Unless you have a dealer in your town, you'll always be dealing via phone/e-mail, but at least if you limit it to dealers in your state or country, you might have some legal recourse in case things don't go as planned.


virgin-burner

Feb 26, 2011, 3:06 PM
Post #42 of 146 (1927 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

aside from what dealers charge in MY country, about 1000$ plus on say a main-canopy..

then i dont care much for the additional 200$ from a dealer in australia..


mrbiceps  (D License)

Feb 26, 2011, 3:52 PM
Post #43 of 146 (1913 views)
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Re: [andreeb77] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sorry to say but the gear shop at picton is closed and it has a sign on the door saying "closed for stock take for investors".
Anyone who has given Gary $ i dont think will ever see any of it back. He has gone into hiding and is not answering any calls. From what i have heard there are 5 new jumpers who are owed $8000 for new rigs that they ordered from Gary. Apparantly 2 people with baseball bats took 2 rigs from the shop during the week. The shop was broken into and another rig was taken on the weekend.


Rigless

Feb 26, 2011, 4:52 PM
Post #44 of 146 (1900 views)
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Re: [mrbiceps] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Pirate


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Feb 26, 2011, 5:07 PM
Post #45 of 146 (1891 views)
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Re: [andreeb77] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Sadly I fear that the experience many have had with this dealer will wind up being summed up with "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." Unsure


tayra

Feb 26, 2011, 5:25 PM
Post #46 of 146 (1881 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

What a welcome to the sport, as if it wasn't expensive enough already, what's another 8 and a half grand to the pile?
Lesson learnt in stunning fashion...


virgin-burner

Feb 26, 2011, 5:38 PM
Post #47 of 146 (1873 views)
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Re: [NWFlyer] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sadly I fear that the experience many have had with this dealer will wind up being summed up with "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." Unsure

well, i really was convinced gary was "good people"..

now, i feel sorry for putting him up over the last few "gary's NOT good people"-threads..

i've ordered a main and a reserve from him; while they took a little longer to arrive, i ended up getting them. future investments will be made over the mgf's themselves tough..


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Feb 26, 2011, 7:38 PM
Post #48 of 146 (1826 views)
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Re: [mrbiceps] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Shop was having a big sale today, looked like they were trying to clear out all the inventory.

Feel pretty bad for Liam, poor kids just trying to make money to jump and his rig ends up getting stolen just because he is working in the shop.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 26, 2011, 8:19 PM
Post #49 of 146 (1808 views)
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Re: [hcsvader] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Shop was having a big sale today, looked like they were trying to clear out all the inventory.

How about offering to send it to some of these customers who keep posting that they're high and dry with nothing to show for their money?

I guess I feel sorry for the kid that got his rig stolen too, but no more or less sorry then for the above mentioned jumpers who had thei rmoney stolen. At least the kid got to see/jump his rig to some extent, it sounds like that's more than some people got out of the deal.

It just adds insult to injury the way this is turning out. Last week the guy was posting that I didn't know about cash flow or running a business, when I just suggested that if someone pays you for a rig, the cash that you need to pay the manufacturer is not your cash to spend. You can do whatever you want with the profits, those are yours, but the principal to pay for the gear needs to sit in escrow and wait for the invoice to come due. He went on to explain that he was 'in talks' with investors who were going to set this whole thing straight, and everyone would be taken care of in the end.

Cash flow? Investors? Who does this guy think he is, Lehman Brothers? You order a rig for someone, write them a bill and get paid, chip off your chunk of the deal, and send the rest on to the manufacturer, it's not that hard.

I would suggest that anyone this guy left in the lurch contact any manufacturers he was suppoed to order from for you, and see if they have any info on your order or any payments made on your behalf.

Beyond that, has anyone seen this fleet of demo rigs he put together a year or two ago? He had a whole pile of Vector 3s, with brand new canopies he bought to loan out or for demo use. Where are those now? I know if I was out many thousands of dollars, I'd take one of those as opposed to nothing. They could jump that, or sell it and maybe buy a more suitable used rig.


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Feb 26, 2011, 8:24 PM
Post #50 of 146 (1804 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Dealer Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

No demo rigs to be seen in the shop. Really the shop only contains a bunch of skydiving t-shirts a few odd shaped jumpsuits and not much else.

I have heard that people have contacted manufacturers and have been told that they haven't recieved thier order and that they were't taking any new orders as KK still owes them money for gear that has been shipped.


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