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"Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence "

 

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Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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Nov 30, 2010, 2:47 AM
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"Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " Can't Post

http://www.news-journalonline.com/...ates-turbulence.html

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DELAND -- For the first time in Skydive DeLand's 29 years of business, a competitor is proposing to jump in on the action, leaving city officials with the task of figuring out how the two can safely coexist at the DeLand Municipal Airport.

Blue Sky Entertainment Inc. co-owner Joseph Richards is proposing a new sky-diving venture on the other side of the airport. The move could make the airport one of possibly only three in the country with multiple sky-diving companies operating from one airfield.

Richards, who has multiple partners in Blue Sky, has an option to sublet a hangar owned by a local businessman, but it would be up to the City Commission to approve the sublease because DeLand owns the property.

This is the first time city leaders have explored the idea of two sky-diving companies at the facility and there's nothing in city rules that prevents multiple parachute businesses there. As long as local procedures and flights are safe, the Federal Aviation Administration allows multiple sky-diving companies to fly out of the same airport, just as it does for various flight schools and airlines. But DeLand officials are concerned about the potential for conflicts with planes and parachutes.

City Manager Michael Pleus said DeLand has an obligation to be fair to both tenants, Skydive DeLand and Gus Spreng, who owns the 6,000-square-foot hangar that's been vacant about nine months.

"We've never contemplated two sky-diving operations at our airport so we've had to go to school to find out what it would take to allow them to operate," Pleus said.


FORMER BUSINESS PARTNERS


City staff is researching how the businesses are handled at other airports and will be preparing a report for the commission in December. In the meantime, Richards and the hangar owner have been asked to come up with an operating protocol that city officials expect Skydive DeLand to review and provide feedback.

"We can make it work if the parties involved want to make it work or it can be pretty ugly," said Keith Riger, city director of public services. "I think it can be done safely."

Cooperation looks like it's not going to come easily, though.

"I guess there could be an agreement. He's on one day and I'm on the next day. But I'm not in favor of that operation," said Bob Hallett, owner of Skydive DeLand, which operates daily.

Hallett recently told city commissioners he is concerned about the "limited" airspace over the airport for planes and parachutes.

"There's many opportunities out there in the free world to set up a business," Hallett said at a commission meeting. "I believe that their main reason for being in DeLand is not as a legitimate business, but to disrupt mine."

Hallett and Richards have a long business history. Hallett said he was a partner for 13 years with Freefall Express, which formerly provided aircraft in DeLand and Zephyrhills and currently does so in Gardiner, N.Y.

Richards and his brother, Bill, are shareholders in Freefall, and Hallett said he parted ways with the company about a decade ago.

According to a lawsuit filed in Pasco County, Bill Richards is suing a different sky-dive company in Zephyrhills to reinstate Freefall as a flight vendor. Skydive DeLand, meanwhile, is now providing aircraft for the same company, Hallett said.

Richards said he and his partners were looking for a public airport and community that already welcomed sky diving. The available hangar space, central location, tourism, established parachute companies and the "large" 1,600-acre airport all played a role in attracting the company here.

"We don't want to get into an argument with the people down there," he said. "All we want to do is go to an airport that has sky diving. It's a public access airport."


COMMUNICATION AMONG COMPETITORS


Richards said he understands why Hallett might not want him there. The logistics shouldn't be difficult, he said, but "the big issue there is that Bob (Hallett) doesn't want competition.

"As pilots we're going to communicate with each other so we can see and avoid each other," Richards said. "We'll be talking to all the necessary air traffic control facilities. We as jump pilots know when we release our sky divers how much time it takes at a certain altitude to drop the next load."

But Hallett said he doesn't think there's a market for competition at the DeLand airport.

"This is not a normal competitive environment. I think this is a basic compromise of safety," Hallett said.

Ed Scott, executive director of the U.S. Parachute Association, said it's unusual to have multiple sky-diving operations at one airport, but it can be done. Out of 230 airports registered with the association, two sky-diving businesses are at smaller airports in Hawaii and in Missouri.

It's probably rare for a few reasons, Scott said, such as whether the market can handle competition, airport size, landing area availability and space for hangars and buildings.

If the two sky-diving companies are going to share the same area, communication is key to safety, he said.

"It's got to be required and it's in the best interest of both businesses to make sure the pilots are communicating and the businesses are communicating just to minimize (physical) conflict," he said.

While pilots are usually mindful of each other, business owners in Hawaii and Missouri predict there will probably be some business conflict in DeLand.

Like DeLand, neither airport has a control tower. Owners said they do not have operating protocols for the businesses, which operate on a much smaller scale than Skydive DeLand's world-renowned facility.

Skydive Hawaii owner Frank Hinshaw said "devastating" price wars have been a big problem. Three sky-diving companies operated at the military-owned Dillingham Airfield in the 1990s and it's now down to two.

"It's certainly not as convenient as having the airfield all to yourself, but it's certainly manageable," said Hinshaw, who called his competitor a "colleague."

The companies share the same drop zone and landing area, he said. It would be "foolish" not to communicate, though there is always room for improvement, he said.

In Mount Vernon, Mo., Bob Feisthamel is suing his competitor, claiming trademark infringement, and the city of Mount Vernon for what he sees as giving the competitor preferential treatment.

The companies haven't gotten along for 15 years, but that doesn't stop them from communicating when they need to, he said.

"We're dropping pretty much in the same area, so whether I dislike the way someone operates their business, it cannot get in the way of safe operations," Feisthamel said.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 30, 2010, 5:59 AM
Post #2 of 277 (7764 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
According to a lawsuit filed in Pasco County, Bill Richards is suing a different sky-dive company in Zephyrhills to reinstate Freefall as a flight vendor.

Crawling into bed with Richards may not be the way to go.


jumpwally  (D License)

Nov 30, 2010, 8:25 AM
Post #3 of 277 (7632 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

This will be interesting......Unsure


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 30, 2010, 9:39 AM
Post #4 of 277 (7572 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

No it won't.
Billy Richards is simply trying to kick Bob in the nuts for helping out Skydive City.
Billy has lost every effort to kick Skydive City in the nuts.
I would expect the same results in Deland based simply on his history in Zephyrhills.
The man clearly holds evil grudges and has deep enough pockets to throw away money in anger.
Quite foolish and ridiculous in my mind.
Let if fucking go already.
Jebus Christ.
Crazy


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Nov 30, 2010, 9:44 AM
Post #5 of 277 (7560 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

The City of Deland is just kidding themselves if they think they are dealing with the 'mild-mannered' Joe Richards - when in fact, his brother Bill Richards is the controlling interest in pretty much all the companies, Freefall Express, Blue Skies and whatever else they want to pretend they are part or not part of.

Bill Richards is currently suing Skydive City, myself, Joan Murphy, and Sue Perkins-Stark. Freefall Express has filed lawsuits against Tadpole Aviation LLC (my Cessna 182 company) and against Marko Jaakkola, the pilot who used to work for him, but now flies for us through Vertical Air.

I could fill hundreds of pages of legal crap here, but it is too much work. - maybe some day. Bill Richards (also a partner in Skydive City) testified in court here in Pasco County that Skydive City's lease with the City was in imminent jeopardy and that he is the only person who can save the corporation from being squandered away by the current management (me, Joannie and Sue).

Then when we finally got a vote at City Council to approve our new lease (Otober 25 of this year), Freefall Express's attorney, Joe Richards and Kay Hoiby-Griep showed up at the City Council meeting to try and block the lease from happening.

sheesh! Anyway, anyone who wants the real story on what is going on can read it between the lines (or call me)

TK


normiss  (D 28356)

Nov 30, 2010, 9:47 AM
Post #6 of 277 (7548 views)
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Re: [tkhayes] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

You put that a LOT nicer than I did!!!
Tongue

Thankfully, I have no legal interest in the matter.

I'd love to know how much money he has pissed away to date though. CrazyLaugh


Ron

Nov 30, 2010, 12:24 PM
Post #7 of 277 (7431 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Well it sure seems like Richards is just trying to hit back anyone he feels "wronged" him. There are plenty of areas he could open a winter DZ.

He could not get back at TK and Company, so he went after Hallett. I must say I LOVE seeing Bob flying in zhills... cracks me up. Smile


3331  (D 3331)

Nov 30, 2010, 2:49 PM
Post #8 of 277 (7325 views)
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Re: [all] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

The City has denied the request.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Nov 30, 2010, 4:18 PM
Post #9 of 277 (7230 views)
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Re: [3331] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The City has denied the request.

My guess is that's not the end of the drama.
But what do I know?


mirage62  (C 15580)

Nov 30, 2010, 4:39 PM
Post #10 of 277 (7210 views)
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Re: [3331] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

"The City has denied the request."

This is the city of Deland? (I hope)

I've ALWAYS wanted to go up to the ranch. Just because of friends that have talked about it.....

I wouldn't go to the ranch now if they were giving $100 bills out with every jump.

Not that Billy would care. He's made a pile of money and if he wants to piss it away (some of it) to screw with Deland thats his business.

Fucked up though, guess where he get's his bucks is never ending cause business 101 teaches you not to screw with folks just cause you mad at them.

I can name 10 other places that would provide a better chance at a return. All Billy is doing is being a turd (is that a PA?)


(This post was edited by mirage62 on Nov 30, 2010, 4:41 PM)


gjhdiver  (D 7731)

Nov 30, 2010, 5:42 PM
Post #11 of 277 (7154 views)
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Re: [tkhayes] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
sheesh! Anyway, anyone who wants the real story on what is going on can read it between the lines (or call me)

TK

If I ever miss managing Z Hills, all I have to do is read this sort of stuff. I spent more time there dealing with spurious legal bullshit than skydiving.

Just keep on keepin' on kicking them in the nuts TK. They'll get the message eventually.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Nov 30, 2010, 5:42 PM
Post #12 of 277 (7152 views)
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Re: [mirage62] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
All Billy is doing is being a turd (is that a PA?)

You've simply defined his action as 'being a turd'. I think a PA would be to say that 'Billy IS a turd'.


weekender  (C License)

Dec 1, 2010, 8:38 AM
Post #13 of 277 (6902 views)
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Re: [craigbey] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

I see it completely different. Bill R no longer has a relationship with the current DZ. See's an opportunity to profit using his knowledge and experience from running a successful DZ and his former partnership in Deland. Seem's like a normal business cycle to me.


Before I'm attacked, a little why i see no biggie here. My experience is in banking. top bankers leave all the time to start their own banks to compete with former partners they disagree with. Same with funds. top fund managers and traders do the same after dissagreements. To me this is a very normal occurrence. I see no victim or villains here.




Hvance

Dec 1, 2010, 10:19 AM
Post #15 of 277 (6803 views)
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Re: [weekender] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I see it completely different. Bill R no longer has a relationship with the current DZ. See's an opportunity to profit using his knowledge and experience from running a successful DZ and his former partnership in Deland. Seem's like a normal business cycle to me.


Before I'm attacked, a little why i see no biggie here. My experience is in banking. top bankers leave all the time to start their own banks to compete with former partners they disagree with. Same with funds. top fund managers and traders do the same after dissagreements. To me this is a very normal occurrence. I see no victim or villains here.
I have no strong opinions here, but I would like to point out that when standard practices of American banking become the litmus test of business ethics, something has gone awry... Wink


skyrider  (D 14710)

Dec 1, 2010, 10:36 AM
Post #16 of 277 (6791 views)
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Re: [3331] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The City has denied the request.

Good....the airspace there would be a nightmare with two Dz's dropping people...I don't knwo how many times I was over the far end of the DZ diring nationals there!


weekender  (C License)

Dec 1, 2010, 11:19 AM
Post #17 of 277 (6764 views)
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Re: [Hvance] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

i understand your point and appreciate you delivering it with a smile.

hey at least im not a lawyer! (thats me directing the conversation about ethics away from my profession)


ManagingPrime

Dec 1, 2010, 12:00 PM
Post #18 of 277 (6722 views)
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Re: [Hvance] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have no strong opinions here, but I would like to point out that when standard practices of American banking become the litmus test of business ethics, something has gone awry... Wink

I'm in banking and you put it so much better than I could. SlyLaughSlyLaugh


mirage62  (C 15580)

Dec 1, 2010, 12:05 PM
Post #19 of 277 (6705 views)
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Re: [weekender] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
See's an opportunity to profit using his knowledge and experience from running a successful DZ and his former partnership in Deland. Seem's like a normal business cycle to me.

Yeah, I've got no big dog in this hunt but using your knowledge and experience (like starting a bank) in a over banked area when there are towns and locations that are way underbanked is the content of this.

This isn't done (or wasn't trying to be done) as a money making this is a great idea thing- IMO

Glad to hear the city killed it but I wouldn't think it was over by any means.


DiverMike  (C 40024)

Dec 2, 2010, 9:34 AM
Post #20 of 277 (6506 views)
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Re: [craigbey] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You've simply defined his action as 'being a turd'. I think a PA would be to say that 'Billy IS a turd'.

He actually said 'Billy is being a turd' which probably qualifies as a PA. By using the gerund 'being' it gives a little wiggle room. It indicates that the opinion is based on past or current action and not future.

There is an argument to be made that the OP was of the opinion that Billy was unaware he was being a turd and that by enlightening him, and based on Billy being a wonderful human being, he would no longer continue turd like behaviour.

Reading the thread though, I am not sure than anyone other than Billy thinks he is a wonderful human being.


craigbey  (C 31991)

Dec 2, 2010, 7:35 PM
Post #21 of 277 (6352 views)
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Re: [DiverMike] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There is an argument to be made that the OP was of the opinion that Billy was unaware he was being a turd and that by enlightening him, and based on Billy being a wonderful human being, he would no longer continue turd like behaviour.

So ... if Billy is not discouraged or dissuaded by such arguments and he continues his turd like behavior, can we say that he is 'undeturd'?


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Dec 3, 2010, 5:00 AM
Post #22 of 277 (6267 views)
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Re: [DiverMike] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

All these posts about turd/not turd, PA/not PA are getting to be rather tiresome. Give it a rest, eh?


kimemerson  (D 13439)

Dec 3, 2010, 5:17 AM
Post #23 of 277 (6257 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

I know what turd is. What's PA?


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Dec 3, 2010, 6:05 AM
Post #24 of 277 (6235 views)
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Re: [kimemerson] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I know what turd is. What's PA?

That's the loudspeaker you use to announce what a turd BR is. Sly


jumpwally  (D License)

Dec 3, 2010, 7:37 AM
Post #25 of 277 (6195 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Exactly,,,and thats why PA's should be allowed. Short and sweet.....WinkTongueCool


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