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"Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence "

 

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kimemerson  (D 13439)

Dec 3, 2010, 8:19 AM
Post #26 of 277 (2976 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

So a P.A. is how a P.S.A. might be made, as one example?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Dec 3, 2010, 9:10 AM
Post #27 of 277 (2954 views)
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Re: [normiss] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Billy Richards is simply trying to kick Bob in the nuts for helping out Skydive City.
Billy has lost every effort to kick Skydive City in the nuts.
I would expect the same results in Deland based simply on his history in Zephyrhills.
The man clearly holds evil grudges and has deep enough pockets to throw away money in anger.

Between his past split with Deland, where he lost near half of his business, and his more recent split with Z-hills, where he again lost near half of his business, and the new development where Deland stepped into his old position as aircraft supplier to Z-hills, there is NO WAY that this is anything but a big F-U to Deland. He's already tried to F Z-hills to no avail, so he's just redirected his aim.

The idea that he wants to start a DZ is not all that far fetched. Let's face it, he already owns the aircraft, which is the biggest part of opening a DZ. In fact, if you owned a bunch of Otters, and had no place to use them, opening a DZ is probably a good way to get some utilization of the planes.

Seeing as how a rack of student and tandem rigs costs less than a hot section for one Otter engine, and that's all you really need to start a DZ (if you own the plane), it's not even that big of a financial risk. Even if the place tanks, it's not that hard to unload tandem and student rigs on the used market. Just like the plane is the biggest investment in opening a DZ, it's also the biggest liability in that you can't just up and sell an Otter at the drop of a hat. It might take time to find a buyer, or you have to offer it up at a loss, and the size of that loss might be equal to (or even exceed) the entire up front cost of all the gear needed to open a DZ. But again, if you already have the plane, you might as well open a DZ.

However, opening one on the same field where there is already an established and succesful DZ makes no sense at all (from a business perspective). Unless you planned to literally run the other DZ out of business, the nest you could hope for is about half of what that DZ already makes. Why would you want to spend the time to compete with the other DZ to gat half of their business, or the money to under-cut them for a few years to drive them out of business, if you're goal was to make money?

The answer is, you wouldn't. If you motive was something else, like just F-ing over the other DZ, then it makes perfect sense. If you were really just trying to make money, you would find your own unique location and simply establish your own DZ there. What about closer to Daytona? Lot's of tourists, ocean views, and no other DZ within 20 miles. That would be a place to open a DZ if you were really looking to just make money, and not kick another DZ in the nuts. Even closer to Orlando would be a better choice for a full time, multi turbine DZ. Close to tourists, close to the tunnel, close to orlando airport, again, a good idea for making money, but Billy is dead set on Deland Airport. It's stupid.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 3, 2010, 4:36 PM
Post #28 of 277 (2866 views)
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Re: [davelepka] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Look on the bright side. We can do a reprint of those old Billy World t-shirts. It's my way or the highway.

I know it's a different Billy but WTF.


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Dec 8, 2010, 4:04 AM
Post #29 of 277 (2732 views)
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Re: [cpoxon] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

The City of Deland had another meeting on Monday I think - did anyone hear anything about it?


normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 8, 2010, 6:41 AM
Post #30 of 277 (2670 views)
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Re: [tkhayes] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

It was continued, again.
Unsure

City of Deland Commission


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Dec 8, 2010, 6:56 AM
Post #31 of 277 (2654 views)
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Re: [davelepka] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Unless you planned to literally run the other DZ out of business, the nest you could hope for is about half of what that DZ already makes.
So -- how many jumpers would go to a Richards operation if jump prices were $1 less than the current one? How about $2?

Wendy P.


(This post was edited by wmw999 on Dec 8, 2010, 6:56 AM)


normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 8, 2010, 7:03 AM
Post #32 of 277 (2646 views)
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Re: [wmw999] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Here comes the issue.
The rumors have been half price. He is just trying to kick the businesses he feels screwed him over in the nuts.
He must have some deep pockets and an anger issue he can't let go of.
I would never patronize a business knowing this is their SOP.
Unimpressed


davelepka  (D 21448)

Dec 8, 2010, 7:20 AM
Post #33 of 277 (2632 views)
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Re: [normiss] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The rumors have been half price. He is just trying to kick the businesses he feels screwed him over in the nuts.
He must have some deep pockets and an anger issue he can't let go of.

Deep pockets, yeah, but part of that is owning the airplanes. It's without a doubt the single biggest cost in skydiving, and if you own your own aircraft, you have a lot more flexibility in how you run the show. If you own a fleet of them, and handle your own maintenence and have a warehouse full of spares already 'in the bank', you have even that much more freedom.

As far as who would go jump there for 1/2 price, I don't know. Maybe some visiting jumpers, but I can't imagine any of the locals or teams would break ranks go across the field. Deland has been very good to a large number of jumpers, and I'd imagine that would build some loyalty. Add to that the fact that Billy would clearly just be trying f-over Deland, I can't see too many jumpers taking the bait.

Even those that did, one slip on the part of the mangement would probably have them back over at Bob's in short order. There's a fair chance that Billy's commitment to customer service would be on par with their jump prices, about half of what you would expect elsewhere. He would have to do jumps for half price, while treating eveyone like a valued customer, and that's tough to do. When someone is putting money in your pockets (like at a regualr price DZ) it's easy to be nice and treat them with respect. When someone is costing you money (or even just breaking even), week after week, it get's tough to keep that smile on your face when a customer mentions the toilets are backed up again.

I know it's wishful thinking, but I would love to see all jumpers stand their ground, and not go for this mafia-style bullshit, and have the 'new' DZ be a ghost town. Of course, the Skyride saga has shown that there will always be jumpers willing to play ball, and instructors willing to take anything they can get.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 8, 2010, 7:29 AM
Post #34 of 277 (2619 views)
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Re: [davelepka] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I know it's wishful thinking, but I would love to see all jumpers stand their ground, and not go for this mafia-style bullshit, and have the 'new' DZ be a ghost town. Of course, the Skyride saga has shown that there will always be jumpers willing to play ball, and instructors willing to take anything they can get.


Ding ding ding...we have a winner.


Amazon  (D License)

Dec 8, 2010, 7:30 AM
Post #35 of 277 (2618 views)
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Re: [davelepka] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

I liked that last paragraph... I am kind of surprised that the two organizations have not merged since it seems they have similar business practices to get a swell "family" together Sicilian style.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Dec 8, 2010, 7:46 AM
Post #36 of 277 (2612 views)
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Re: [Amazon] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I liked that last paragraph... I am kind of surprised that the two organizations have not merged since it seems they have similar business practices to get a swell "family" together Sicilian style.

Larry would then own another DZ. fleet of Planes and a lot more equipment as well.

Matt


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Dec 8, 2010, 7:58 AM
Post #37 of 277 (2605 views)
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Re: [davelepka] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I know it's wishful thinking, but I would love to see all jumpers stand their ground, and not go for this mafia-style bullshit, and have the 'new' DZ be a ghost town.

In my experience, Bob and his staff have treated me and my friends quite well. After finding out what kind of person Billy Richards is through his dealings with Z-hills and now this, there's no way I would go and jump at any dz he opens at Deland.


normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 8, 2010, 8:37 AM
Post #38 of 277 (2581 views)
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Re: [skymama] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

or any other airport for that matter.
Wink


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Dec 8, 2010, 8:41 AM
Post #39 of 277 (2571 views)
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Re: [normiss] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Correct!


Ron

Dec 8, 2010, 9:13 AM
Post #40 of 277 (2556 views)
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Re: [skymama] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
After finding out what kind of person Billy Richards is through his dealings with Z-hills and now this, there's no way I would go and jump at any dz he opens at Deland.

Most will not.... But all it takes is a quick read on the thread "FAA to fine Lodi $664,000 " to see that some people only care about the bottom dollar.

If Richards really wanted to get into the FL market.... There are plenty of areas he could open a DZ.... Umatilla was for sale last I checked.


normiss  (D 28356)

Dec 8, 2010, 9:15 AM
Post #41 of 277 (2563 views)
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Re: [Ron] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

I hear Lake Wales is pretty much vacant as well.
Tongue


skyrider  (D 14710)

Dec 8, 2010, 10:05 AM
Post #42 of 277 (2533 views)
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Re: [skymama] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I know it's wishful thinking, but I would love to see all jumpers stand their ground, and not go for this mafia-style bullshit, and have the 'new' DZ be a ghost town.

In my experience, Bob and his staff have treated me and my friends quite well. After finding out what kind of person Billy Richards is through his dealings with Z-hills and now this, there's no way I would go and jump at any dz he opens at Deland.

He banned me for life..Mad But, after I left the DZ, he heard how the fight I was invoved in started, and went out of his way to contact me , to let me know I was welcome....(A punk tried to hit me with his van, in the parking lot...I broke my hand on his skull, then did some body work on his van with his head)

Bobs pretty kewl, Old school yet still a business man!


(This post was edited by skyrider on Dec 8, 2010, 10:06 AM)


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 8, 2010, 2:13 PM
Post #43 of 277 (2460 views)
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Re: [skymama] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

That's not true. Should I feel special?


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Dec 8, 2010, 3:14 PM
Post #44 of 277 (2414 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
That's not true. Should I feel special?

I took that to mean any of Billy Richard's dz's, not just any dz. At least, that's what I meant.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Dec 8, 2010, 4:00 PM
Post #45 of 277 (2396 views)
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Re: [skymama] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
That's not true. Should I feel special?

I took that to mean any of Billy Richard's dz's, not just any dz. At least, that's what I meant.

You could have just said I was special. Unimpressed


mirage62  (C 15580)

Dec 8, 2010, 6:29 PM
Post #46 of 277 (2338 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't walk an additional 10 steps to jump at Billy's dz even if the jumps were half price...

But I suspect it wouldn't be the fun jumpers that would respond. It might be the tandems....

In any event X amount of time as a previous poster stated and the joy of getting even wears thin to the amount of money one is losing by performing dumb ass things


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Dec 8, 2010, 7:14 PM
Post #47 of 277 (2328 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I liked that last paragraph... I am kind of surprised that the two organizations have not merged since it seems they have similar business practices to get a swell "family" together Sicilian style.

Larry would then own another DZ. fleet of Planes and a lot more equipment as well.

Matt

Maybe he can use it all to pay off the judgement against SkyRice? Angelic

Sparky


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Dec 9, 2010, 4:35 AM
Post #48 of 277 (2270 views)
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Re: [skymama] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

The day after the meeting in Deland (Monday right?), that Billy shows up at Z-Hills, with his brother Joe (who is supposedly opening the Deland dropzone, not Billy), and Tom Dessert, Freefall Express' mechanic, Marius Ivascu, two body guards, one of their many attorneys, and a locksmith and attempted to take over our aircraft hangar.

police, hours of pain in the ass, and in the end, they left with a bunch of parts and stuff from the hangar. (which is still filled with Freefall Express stuff)

Bill Richards recently 'gave' one share each of his Skydive City shares to his brother Joe and Tom Dessert, making them now shareholders of Skydive City, albeit, small shareholders.


MakeItHappen

Dec 9, 2010, 5:15 AM
Post #49 of 277 (2232 views)
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Re: [tkhayes] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The day after the meeting in Deland (Monday right?), that Billy shows up at Z-Hills, with his brother Joe (who is supposedly opening the Deland dropzone, not Billy), and Tom Dessert, Freefall Express' mechanic, Marius Ivascu, two body guards, one of their many attorneys, and a locksmith and attempted to take over our aircraft hangar.

police, hours of pain in the ass, and in the end, they left with a bunch of parts and stuff from the hangar. (which is still filled with Freefall Express stuff)

Bill Richards recently 'gave' one share each of his Skydive City shares to his brother Joe and Tom Dessert, making them now shareholders of Skydive City, albeit, small shareholders.

Send FFE an eviction notice & bill for parts storage and then put their stuff out on the curb.

.


tkhayes  (D 18764)

Dec 9, 2010, 5:21 AM
Post #50 of 277 (2226 views)
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Re: [MakeItHappen] "Possibility of 2nd sky-diving company in DeLand creates turbulence " [In reply to] Can't Post

It may very well be that easy, but... hard to explain it all here, but we are heading in that direction at least......


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