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First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too

 

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Southern_Man  (C License)

Nov 3, 2010, 11:08 AM
Post #51 of 76 (1115 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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I'm a 182 jumper..so what is the rule, when jumping from otter, pac ect..on a go-around? If your spot is off or long, is it finacially sound to do a go around or is it just a pain in the butt?

Chances of your spot being bad out of the Otter on hop & pops is pretty rare, especially since you would likely be pulling with plenty of alti to get back... I've never seen anyone ask for a go-around in the Otter for a hop & pop. Unless you have a real good reason, I don't think many people are going to be happy about the request.

Other aircraft below you is a real good reason to ask for a go-around regardless of airplane.


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Nov 3, 2010, 11:49 AM
Post #52 of 76 (1103 views)
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Re: [Southern_Man] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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I'm a 182 jumper..so what is the rule, when jumping from otter, pac ect..on a go-around? If your spot is off or long, is it finacially sound to do a go around or is it just a pain in the butt?

Chances of your spot being bad out of the Otter on hop & pops is pretty rare, especially since you would likely be pulling with plenty of alti to get back... I've never seen anyone ask for a go-around in the Otter for a hop & pop. Unless you have a real good reason, I don't think many people are going to be happy about the request.

Other aircraft below you is a real good reason to ask for a go-around regardless of airplane.

Depending on where it is... I agree! Cloud cover can also be a good reason... There ARE obviously some good reasons for a go-around which is why I worded it that way to begin with. Wink


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 3, 2010, 2:42 PM
Post #53 of 76 (1078 views)
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Re: [Fast] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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So.....Sky Knights SPC has a bunch of "Go Idiots"....good to know.

Especially good to know that it was directed at a youngster.

No we don't. Thanks for selling my DZ short based on one post, by one person, with 30 jumps, that really has her hands full just remembering all the right things to do on a skydive. (Not picking on you Robyn, that's just where you're at right now). I wasn't on that load, but someone was who I do trust to tell me the truth was and as far as she can remember (a skydiving staff member/instructor with over 1500 jumps) no one was "yelling". There was likely a "Go" because as noted elsewhere in this thread, you were spotting when the light changed from yellow to green.

As for hop and pop's and cuts, everyone gets one, students and experienced jumpers. Proper configuration of the plane for a hop and pop pass is flaps on and nose slightly down and everyone gets that. I have had to physically stop someone from jumping before the green was on, because they were about to do a poised exit into the tail, I don't understand why either because we tell new jumpers to the dz about these things and there are signs in the plane.

I'm not writing this post to talk about or nit pick every little issue that people have brought up in this thread, but I don't want people thinking that my dropzone is full of people who are yelling go. It just isn't. As for any of the commentary about downsizing, what's being done with her is what's reasonable and safe, and I say that as an aff instructor that has seen her jumps.

Also, Robyn does write a lot, maybe a bit more than she should, but if you don't like it don't read her posts. I wish people wouldn't be so mean about it. She talks more than she writes too. Wrap your head around that. It takes some getting used to and everyone doesn't always have time to listen to everything, but she is just an enthusiastic new jumper, be nice.

Thanks D, and no offense taken. It's true, that is exactly where I am at- I still f'ing *remind* myself to arch in freefall (maybe I shouldn't admit that Tongue) and check alti every 500 to thousand feet like a crazy person, and have a million questions about just about everything (as D can attest.. on the other side of the coin, he doesn't "use his words" at all though, he just violently hits you in the eye with his nerf weapon to convey his points!! Tongue Kidding... Angelic)

But yes, I am nowhere near experienced enough for my summary of anything to be taken as fact in the skydiving world, hence my frequent references to "experienced folks agreed" or "we thought this" or the questions or rhetorical things I say- I don't ever mean for my perception to be taken as reality. The fact is someone said go as they likely saw yellow to green before I noticed. I don't know who, I assume no one at my dz has malicious intent to me, and I don't "blame" or involve that, it's just a detail that plays into my recall of the chronology of my mental state and physical acts, like a memory landmark I guess in recounting a stressful situation of first cutaway jump.

And, D, thank you for clarifying- I think I meant "yelling" as in loud and enunciated-- everyone yells about everything on the plane w/ an open door, cause it's a freakin aeroplane, and it is loud! Not 'yelling' as in angry face glaring and peeved.

Though I do think the word go, in my own bastion of sensitivity and political correctness, could be done away with except extreme situations, and/or replaced by "green," since "go" is not the same as "green" (ah semantics.. but really though) and since go is a command-word, which I do think should be avoided unless it is a command related to improved safety or emergency.. but my opinion could change in 5 jumps, or in 500, and I refer mainly to theory and dz culture, no particular complaints about my dz, so it is neither here nor there and I have too little experience to know all the ins and outs anywho.. and like said it's rare anyway.

Thanks for the input on canopy too D- I have had several long (and when I say long, it means *long*) talks with several of our senior and master riggers and AFF instructors about everything from toggle position, stall, flare, glide ratio, canopy materials, wingloading, etc. (over two mos building up to changing my main size/canopy. and I wouldn't agree to a plan if I didn't trust that, along with my own education and knowledge that it is a safe plan, that many many people who know a hell of a lot more than me also feel it is appropriate. 31 jumps and 0.9 sounds right based on those who have seen me as D attests, and the charts as well. (As I said in a pm though, it's all good to raise safety questions, I appreciate the concern. It's all good and has been handled well by many experienced/rated instructors and riggers Smile

Anyway I will point out again, I drive nearly twice the distance and changed DZs into AFF to have the opportunity to jump at SkyKnights. So, that says something. And I am pretty sure most of my finances this year should just have been directly deposited at the dz. It's worth it. No question. Everyone there has gone out of their way to help keep me and others safe and have respect for one another. No political bs, just saying from my own experience/Px. I do not want to give the impression that anything different is true.. I lurve my home dz haha.

I have heard a "go" TWICE ever, so this is not a huge situation, and no one has ever been blatantly angry/cruel to me, that I perceived, any perceptions I have are generally my own skydive stuff and over thinking going on in my head lol. Anyway-- thanks guys for your feedback and clarifications..

Hey Derrick-- did the reserve freebag come down too? Ever find it? J had the canopy when they picked me up in the cart, but I forgot to ask about the bag!?

And do you happen to know the answer to the most important question of the week- what liquor does my reserve re-packer/life saver enjoy drinking? :) Bought way too many different six packs today... Capital Oktoberfest, Spotted Cow, Fat Tire, Dogfish Head, and one or two local ones that the beer man recommended. Thus, I hope you are prepared to celebrate the last "official" Pac/season weekend with me Smile

And btw-- thanks for looking out, and thanks for tolerating my words that come faster than I can think them over sometimes *foot in mouth* and answering my million hyper newb questions at times. I think over time one mellows out a bit.. I hope Angelic


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Nov 3, 2010, 2:49 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Nov 3, 2010, 5:23 PM
Post #54 of 76 (1056 views)
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Re: [Fast] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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So.....Sky Knights SPC has a bunch of "Go Idiots"....good to know.

Especially good to know that it was directed at a youngster.

No we don't. Thanks for selling my DZ short based on one post, by one person, with 30 jumps, that really has her hands full just remembering all the right things to do on a skydive. (Not picking on you Robyn, that's just where you're at right now).

Well, Fast, it's all about the youngsters and how THEY perceive things now isn't it? Please don't ask me to disregard their feelings.

Doesn't really matter whether anyone was yelling or whispering...what matters is how the youngster perceived it...and she said it made her nervous.
Bottom line.


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 3, 2010, 8:17 PM
Post #55 of 76 (1028 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Man, Fast and popsjumper, I know you are disagreeing with each other but I have to say I am heartened that at least coming from the same place of looking out for newer jumpers, if coming across differently and same passion for the sport. (Haha sorry I am in a sappy mood. But legitimately, thanks for all you more experienced jumpers do for us newbies.)

Pops- It did make me nervous. I'd guess that many/most new A-license-ish level jumpers are more easily made nervous by situations that wouldn't phase someone with you or D's experience. It was the first exit I have fully "tumbled" in quite a few jumps, because I *did* respond with nerves and rushed it a bit. But I don't think it caused me to have a mal and cutaway (not saying that -you- believe I am implying that either-- just don't want any miscommunication as to my beliefs or intents with regard to even mentioning it). Was just relating the chronology and it stuck in my mind as it was obviously a memorable jump sequence and did have some stressors (things that wouldn't bother a more experienced person- but were notable to me) and a lot of firsts.

OTOH, sometimes I legitimately do have to get my head outta my ass, newb or no, it is *not* a forgiving sport (but it is nice to have the transition with instructors, then coaches, then mentors etc. so that you have some gradual transfer of responsibility, though ultimately it is yours when it comes down to it from jump one, you know what i mean).

I think you both make good points, and it's a balance of a culture where people realize that a new jumper might see things different than an experienced one, and think about how words are used at crucial times, but also a situation where newer jumpers like me also have to get used to things and learn how to make safe decisions and think quick regardless of what others might be deciding or doing- keep each other safe ya know?

Anyways I'll butt out here, just wanted to say I legitimately appreciate that I think you are both coming from the same place of wanting to make sure jumpers stay safe, and yes, what I share as my perceptions on here might be seen very differently by someone with more experience, and multiple viewpoints are always helpful in my book!
blue skies to you both~ R

EDIT-- I want to apologize for my first post as well, I was fresh off the adrenaline of a cutaway and finally met my goal of getting my A license within the season, and was trying to convey an intense situation. I did use the term "the 'go' idiots" simply since I am so used to hearing/reading that and it's an understood term/phenomena.

Please accept my general apology for the harsh term used when the situation probably did not warrant it. Sometimes you obviously say things online you really would not want to say to someone's face- I dislike catching myself at that!

Like I said, I drove double distance and paid double (due to more coaching over solos on the ISP/A progression) when choosing to transfer to my current home dz at SK, so I certainly don't have any qualms about respect for student safety there.

All dzs have their strong & weak points of course, but I really do think that communication at exit time and in aircraft is an important safety issue and personal issue relevant to every person and dz, not just one place since I assume we have all been on loads with mis-communication due to noise when spotting or preparing for an exit, yelling of "go" when someone is spotting, etc. It's not a dz specific issue, it's a skydiving issue. Maybe a topic for another thread even. But yeah, wanted to clear that up on a re-read of my own harsh words. Doesn't change my own opinion on communication and word use in the plane at crucial times, but I am not mad or blaming anyone, and didn't need to say it like that at all..


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Nov 3, 2010, 9:04 PM)


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Nov 3, 2010, 8:23 PM
Post #56 of 76 (1024 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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Doesn't really matter whether anyone was yelling or whispering...what matters is how the youngster perceived it...and she said it made her nervous.
Bottom line.

Is your point that.... no one should ever shout "GO" because it may be perceived wrong and hurt someones feelings or make them nervous?

I'm not an advocate for shouting anything at anyone..., but this IS jumping out of airplanes not a social book club. (not at all directed to the OP)


trig78  (B License)

Nov 3, 2010, 8:55 PM
Post #57 of 76 (1015 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Doesn't really matter whether anyone was yelling or whispering...what matters is how the youngster perceived it...and she said it made her nervous.
Bottom line.

+1

A girl + begginer + nervous. No need to make her more nervous. That resulted in her saving her life so No, nobody should say GO! Go when ready maybe Wink


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 4, 2010, 3:27 AM
Post #58 of 76 (981 views)
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Re: [trig78] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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... Go when ready maybe Wink

Actually that is a good call I had not thought about that but my first "lower"/3.5k h&p, the coach who was helping me knew i was nervous about it and i believe she said something like, "ok you can go when you're ready" when the green came on. and then, there i went. Wink

it was actually really reassuring that she said that, even though i saw the light come on and was already in position by the door at yellow-- so, it wasn't even meant to necessarily/primarily remind me of the status of the light, so much as just checking in w/ me as a newer jumper and never having done a "low" h&p till that one, she knew i was nervous and communicated what was going on and made me feel confident in making the decision of how and when to exit (and i didn't hesitate, i was ready so i went!)


Fast  (D 28237)

Nov 4, 2010, 7:57 AM
Post #59 of 76 (963 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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Hey Derrick-- did the reserve freebag come down too? Ever find it? J had the canopy when they picked me up in the cart, but I forgot to ask about the bag!?

And do you happen to know the answer to the most important question of the week- what liquor does my reserve re-packer/life saver enjoy drinking? :) Bought way too many different six packs today... Capital Oktoberfest, Spotted Cow, Fat Tire, Dogfish Head, and one or two local ones that the beer man recommended. Thus, I hope you are prepared to celebrate the last "official" Pac/season weekend with me Smile

And btw-- thanks for looking out, and thanks for tolerating my words that come faster than I can think them over sometimes *foot in mouth* and answering my million hyper newb questions at times. I think over time one mellows out a bit.. I hope Angelic

That rig has a skyhook, the freebag was attached to the main.

I have no idea cause he isn't my rigger. Smile

Yeah it's ok, part of the game WinkCool


fcajump  (D 15598)

Nov 4, 2010, 8:18 AM
Post #60 of 76 (954 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

What most folks do at my DZ, is to tap the spotter and point to the green light. A nod of the head from the spotter acknowledges that the pilot has turned it on.

Beyond that, for the most part, the spotter is left to their own judgment, especially when they're spotting for themselves or just a few others (i.e. a long spot won't hose the last out)

Much nicer way to assist the spotter and not pressure them.

To me, the only time one should shout (commanding) to "exit" is when the pilot has ordered an evacuation.

As to the word "GO"... poor choice of word. (except maybe following "Ready" and "Set") It is too easily confused with "NO" which also might be said in an urgent commanding tone and need completely different actions.

At least SF_B seems good natured about the reception here. Cool

As to "haven't landed the 190"... at that wing loading, I am surprised that SF_B has ever actually landed anything >=190!!! Should just be floating around forever Tongue

I'd say that I'd jump with you when I'm next in Mil (never been there yet), but the dive would consist mostly of me looking up at you, and you wondering how anyone could fall that fast. Laugh

Blue ones,
JW


ksudiver87  (C 38895)

Nov 4, 2010, 9:07 AM
Post #61 of 76 (947 views)
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Re: [fcajump] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

See this whole thread is prime example why every DZ should own 182's. 5 left, 5 right go. we do go-arounds for the fun of it :) To assist everyone in this transition into a more peacful jump, I will buy your turbines for $500 a piece..you're welcome in advanceCool


jtnesbitt  (B 30189)

Nov 4, 2010, 9:24 AM
Post #62 of 76 (942 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

>>>...Go when ready maybe

That's essentially what the green light means. That's why at my home DZ we yell "Green light" just like fcajumps previously said. This way it lets the spotter know "hey the pilot says its cool to exit when you are ready." I actually like it when this happens as many time people spotting have their head out of the door and cannot see the light and/or flaps/slats config because they are looking down.

fcajumps also brought up the good point of "no" sounds a lot like "go." I once got forced out of a skyvan a mile before the spot because of this. We had a 9 way tube planned, the pilot knew it would take time to mock it up so he gave us the red early. As soon as we mocked it up i heard someone yell "ready!?" I knew the spot was wrong so i yelled "No!"

Needless to say since it was a tube that big I couldnt do anything to stop the exit Tongue


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 4, 2010, 11:15 AM
Post #63 of 76 (924 views)
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Re: [Fast] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:

Hey Derrick-- did the reserve freebag come down too? Ever find it? J had the canopy when they picked me up in the cart, but I forgot to ask about the bag!?

And do you happen to know the answer to the most important question of the week- what liquor does my reserve re-packer/life saver enjoy drinking? :) Bought way too many different six packs today... Capital Oktoberfest, Spotted Cow, Fat Tire, Dogfish Head, and one or two local ones that the beer man recommended. Thus, I hope you are prepared to celebrate the last "official" Pac/season weekend with me Smile

And btw-- thanks for looking out, and thanks for tolerating my words that come faster than I can think them over sometimes *foot in mouth* and answering my million hyper newb questions at times. I think over time one mellows out a bit.. I hope Angelic

That rig has a skyhook, the freebag was attached to the main.

I have no idea cause he isn't my rigger. Smile

Yeah it's ok, part of the game WinkCool

Hehe- no wonder! It all makes sense now. I assumed the RSL beat me, but didn't even think about having one at the time, nor that it was actually a MARD (I knew the student rigs or some of them had skyhooks since John showed me to check it on the 240, but I didn't think about the transition/rentals having one) Nice!

No wonder the silver pull felt strangely easy with an instantaneous reserve lol. Yay for skyhooks (and for not losing gear Tongue)

Thanks again.

Well for now I bought beer, and will inquire this weekend if he comes out


Scrumpot  (D License)

Nov 5, 2010, 3:39 PM
Post #64 of 76 (878 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Most places you won't get a go around on a low pass, with a full load going otherwise up to full altitude. Don't want to get out on the particular pass given?... No problem, you just ride all the way to the top is all. True go-around though on an in-transit courtesy set-up low-pass? Probably not going to happen, even if you did want to ask for it. - Just FWIW.


(This post was edited by Scrumpot on Nov 5, 2010, 3:40 PM)


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 5, 2010, 5:00 PM
Post #65 of 76 (865 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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Most places you won't get a go around on a low pass, with a full load going otherwise up to full altitude. Don't want to get out on the particular pass given?... No problem, you just ride all the way to the top is all. True go-around though on an in-transit courtesy set-up low-pass? Probably not going to happen, even if you did want to ask for it. - Just FWIW.

Hehe yeah.. you'd just go all the way to altitude wouldn't you. Hoenstly though, if there was a reason for the hop n pop (ex. for me it was canopy control pre-A) or a student without a freefall coach, a go-around seems warranted if for example (as stated) cloud cover, other aircraft, etc.) but i guess in my OP, I wouldn't have wanted or needed a go-around, the spot was good, timing was fine Smile


Scrumpot  (D License)

Nov 6, 2010, 10:36 AM
Post #66 of 76 (835 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
if there was a reason for the hop n pop (ex. for me it was canopy control pre-A) or a student without a freefall coach, a go-around seems warranted

Again, still - don't count on it. You're probably still NOT going to get another completely go-around 2nd fresh pass. Again - if for any reason you did not feel safe to exit, needed/wanted a "better" spot, and/or asked for a go-around even under the circumstances you are citing - chances are the pilot is going to red-light you and take you to the top with the rest of the load. SOP. You would simply then go to the top, and figure it out again for your next jump.

None of your reasons cited warrant a "HAVE TO EXIT, no matter what" - no matter how many (low) passes it may take on THAT PARTICULAR LOAD to get it done.

Your single hop-n-pop is not all that critical that it would absolutely HAVE TO BE DONE on that load, just because you wanted (or you had planned) to, in either of the situations you cite either. What makes you think either of those jump scenarios are so important that they would absolutely HAVE TO get done on THAT LOAD?

Once again - You would just then in either of those scenarios still - take it all the way up if you did not like the (in transit with an otherwise full load going all the way up) pass (or the spot) given - and then once you are back down - figure it out from there. NBD.

FWIW.
Blue Skies,
-Grant


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Nov 6, 2010, 1:38 PM
Post #67 of 76 (827 views)
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Re: [billvon] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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It might have contributed, but bad body position will by no means ensure a problem. I've seen horrendous body positions on SL and AFF students, and they get reasonable openings 99% of the time.

Ditto.

Student gear and beginner's gear is pretty forgiving to that, for a reason. And that's the reason why wingsuiters like moderate planform canopies like the Spectre or the Pilot. They want something that keeps flying straight even with linetwists.

But mals can definitely happen because of bad body position.

Good job saving your life. I have one cutaway, and exactly the same kind of experience of it as you: "Wow, this was EASY!" You are trained to do it, by your instructors and yourself, and the gear works.

If you don't get out on green, the plane will have to do a second pass for you, but I agree that shouting "get out!" to a new jumper is probably not the best thing.

Now buy beer and jump more!

Cool


skyflower_bloom  (A 59229)

Nov 6, 2010, 9:31 PM
Post #68 of 76 (805 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

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Most places you won't get a go around on a low pass, with a full load going otherwise up to full altitude. Don't want to get out on the particular pass given?... No problem, you just ride all the way to the top is all. True go-around though on an in-transit courtesy set-up low-pass? Probably not going to happen, even if you did want to ask for it. - Just FWIW.

This may not have been intended for me-- but on the jump I described, while I mention at first I couldn't see the airport at what I felt was the usual place and time, I quickly adjusted and made an effort to glance back to the light, out the door, and repeat. I happened to apparently miss the one time the light went yellow to green, because I was in the "looking out for traffic below and airport in sight" mode rather than the "look at the yellow light and see if it is green yet" mode- make sense?

So I agree the topic of when a go-around is given, and specifically on a hop and pop or pre-A/student jump, in the case I initially described, it was a matter of several seconds and I would have been out the door within less than 5 seconds whether or not someone said "go!" I don't think I could or would have gone differentially faster due to someone telling me, since I was still processing and maneuvering and went as soon as I could, but thinking I needed to go even faster than that for some reason prompted me to rush-- maybe more accurate to say exit more poorly/"feeling" more rushed, since I make no statement that I actually left prior to when I would have otherwise felt safe leaving *on this particular jump.*

Now again, this is my perception as a newbie.. but based on prior experience so far (which again granted, is not the same as an experienced person's, but which does give me some frame of reference), as well as the experience of comparing perceived events to the occurrence and time on my debrief videos over the course of AFF and ISP/coach as often as possible, to get a sense of these things to avoid sensory overload caused time distortion)

So yeah- it is a valid topic- I just don;t want you to think that I for some reason intended any hesitation beyond feeling safe and being in position, I did not feel that it was a problematic spot, planned to exit, and did exit. I don't know that I could think of a very likely situation at this point in my career that I would encounter that would have me asking for a go-around on a H&P, nor have I seen such situation!! But then again I have only thirty-some jumps.. and don't doubt it is both possible and legitimate in rare circumstances to choose not to jump and/or request a go-around.. guess it depends on DZ policy and the pilot, when a jumper has "missed" their opportunity and when a go around is done and for whom/under what conditions.

So OOC, you think if you actually had a problem with the low spot, they'd just send you to full altitude and later charge you the difference in the cost of the jump ticket?? Huh never thought of that.. *shrug*


(This post was edited by skyflower_bloom on Nov 6, 2010, 9:32 PM)


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Nov 29, 2010, 7:29 PM
Post #69 of 76 (717 views)
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Re: [skyflower_bloom] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think you'd get a go around at my DZ if you're a solo hop & pop. That's asking a bit much IMO. I also don't think you should ever expect to get one either. I think you will have plenty of time on most jump runs (even hop & pop jump runs) to exit one person. I'm not saying you took too long, just stating that if you feel rushed as a solo hop and pop then you have something you need to work on (we all have those).

I'm in the habit of saying "green light" when the light goes green. Generally people only start yelling "go" when someone has been standing around for a while but that's usually some fun jumping 4 way who feel that it's super critical that their position in the door is perfect (even though it isn't). If you're standing in the door for 15 seconds (and the winds aren't absolutely honking) you can expect people to tell you to get out or get out of the way. Students not hop and popping (at my dz) would normally be going after fun jumpers and before the tandems though and tandems always get a go around if the need it or want it AFAIK.

I had my first cutaway on jump 12, I had already downsized from a 280 to a 260 to a 240 to a 220 and that was my first on a 200. I'm 185 out the door though so WL wasn't an issue and I've always been pretty good at canopy stuff. I think they needed the bigger canopies for other students. I spun myself up doing the yellow card "hard 90 / hard 180" drill because I did it wrong. Mostly I swore a lot, cut away using a method (one hand either side) I'd never been taught, practiced or even really thought about and stood up my landing. I even managed to save my handles through dumb luck.


(This post was edited by danielcroft on Nov 29, 2010, 7:31 PM)


airborne47  (A 43475)

Nov 30, 2010, 7:22 AM
Post #70 of 76 (633 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Should have put this in sooner but forgot where i read it.
You said something earlier about wanting info for emergency exits.
I don't have experience to state things as fact. But one thing that was told to me that made sence was to head dive on emergency exits.
The reason being the aircrafts tail could be dropping from a stall or roll.
And that it better to take a hit to the body or limbs then your head.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Nov 30, 2010, 8:16 AM
Post #71 of 76 (624 views)
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Re: [airborne47] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Should have put this in sooner but forgot where i read it.
You said something earlier about wanting info for emergency exits.
I don't have experience to state things as fact. But one thing that was told to me that made sence was to head dive on emergency exits.
The reason being the aircrafts tail could be dropping from a stall or roll.
And that it better to take a hit to the body or limbs then your head.

Haven't been there... just thinking it through it would depend on the nature of the emergency...

Stall/spin during jump-run at alt. (a couple friends of mine went through this in completely different situations) - you may have trouble getting to the door and/or away from the aircraft (one was pinned to the underside of the wing for a couple rotations). So yes, flying in any manner that gets you clear of the spinning mess (not to mention props) would be best. Use the altitude to get clear, but don't loose track of what you have left. I've heard arguments for opening high or waiting until lower... For myself, I think once I was SURE I was clear of plane (wreckage?) and other jumpers, I would pull as high as possible to give myself best possible clearance/time/space to deal with whatever transpired next. But this varies considerably depending on your experience and what is going on.

On the other extreme... an engine out on a twin where the pilot is holding it flat/stable for you to bail at 2k, I would do a quick normal head-up exit into the wind and deploy main.

I believe everyone that is licensed should be comfortable doing a fast dive-away or clear-n-pull exit on short notice. If you're not, practice... its like practicing any other EP's.

JW


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 30, 2010, 11:41 AM
Post #72 of 76 (582 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

>If you're standing in the door for 15 seconds (and the winds aren't
>absolutely honking) you can expect people to tell you to get out or get
>out of the way.

The place to discuss that is in the ground, not in the door of the airplane. Imagine, for example, if someone on the outside realizes they have a gear problem (i.e. main container open and they are holding it closed) and the people inside screaming "GO!" inspires someone on the inside to push everyone out the door. That could turn a gear problem into a fatality.

Or there may be a load organizer trying to pry a low timer's hand off someone else's cutaway handle, or they may be trying to get the door open another half an inch so that the floaters don't lose skin at exit time. They may have a very good reason for taking longer - and you don't know what it is.

If you're angry that someone is taking long in the door, keep it to yourself for a few minutes until you're on the ground - then have the discussion.


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Nov 30, 2010, 9:45 PM
Post #73 of 76 (534 views)
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Re: [billvon] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Larger groups definitely mean that there are more possibile scenarios that will delay exit. I agree that shouting at people isn't the best solution, especially when they're a lower time jumper but honestly, there are plenty of people who would pay no attention to something said on the ground.

Scenarios for a solo jumper would be that there's traffic or industrial haze they're waiting to clear or maybe they see an issue with the plane. Personally, if i were presented with these scenarios, I'd be telling people in the plane that there's an issue and what it is, not just standing in the door dumbly (no, I don't mean stupidly). I think there's a big difference between standing in the door (I meant inside), without action or indication of a problem and actively reporting a problem or even being in a group that is having some issue.

I'm not sure it really matters who yells what when you're already outside the plane anyway, I'm not sure I could hear at all let alone make out the message. Obviously that's why shouting "no" and "go" are bad because they're easily mistaken. If the pilot turned off the light, how would you retrieve someone who was outside and trying to fix any of the issues you mentioned? Probably a lot of yelling but the people who actually visually or physically signalled that there was a reason to not go would be more successful, no?


noodlesR6  (A 6985)

Dec 4, 2010, 3:32 AM
Post #74 of 76 (477 views)
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Re: [danielcroft] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

Turn to the people in the plane, put your hand up, say "wait".

Oh shit, I'm not allowed to have an opinion, I have less than 10000 skydives.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Dec 4, 2010, 3:54 AM
Post #75 of 76 (474 views)
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Re: [noodlesR6] First Cutaway, jump 30, and got my A too [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Oh shit, I'm not allowed to have an opinion, I have less than 10000 skydives.

Bad attitude, which also has nothing to do with this thread, other than you taking an opportunity to get in a cheap whine. Apparently you're still stinging from
This Thread
, where, at then-50-ish jumps, you were quite properly corrected by a few people for giving advice that, frankly, you simply were not yet qualified to give. A little extra humility would do you a world of good.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Dec 4, 2010, 3:59 AM)


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