Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark

 

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Rigless

May 5, 2011, 2:36 PM
Post #76 of 119 (6912 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Kickass Cool

Nice to see some good comp for PD Wink


hookitt  (D License)

May 5, 2011, 3:20 PM
Post #77 of 119 (6900 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sciroccos vs. Velocities battle :):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uwq1M_WbQ

You should indicate which one is which in the video.


dima39  (D 177246)

May 5, 2011, 3:53 PM
Post #78 of 119 (6894 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

3 Comp Velos, 1 Velo and 3 Scirocco
Comp Velos - blue/white/grey
Velo - red/white
Scirocco - other colors


hookitt  (D License)

May 5, 2011, 4:20 PM
Post #79 of 119 (6883 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks

They look impressive.


dima39  (D 177246)

May 5, 2011, 4:33 PM
Post #80 of 119 (6876 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

I was mistaken - 4 Comp Velo vs. 3 Scirocco
Red/white - also Comp Velo


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

May 6, 2011, 11:08 AM
Post #81 of 119 (6881 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?


dima39  (D 177246)

May 6, 2011, 2:49 PM
Post #82 of 119 (6854 views)
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?

From mine small 250+ jumps experience with crossbrased canopies (regular Velo-79/84 and Scirocco-72/77) - not shorter than regular Velo with added 3 inches in brake lines. I didn't jump Comp Velo, so can't compare with it. A little different pressure in the bottom end, when you stay in deep brakes before turn.


(This post was edited by dima39 on May 6, 2011, 2:56 PM)


bofh  (D 13995)

May 6, 2011, 10:56 PM
Post #83 of 119 (6815 views)
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?

No, I don't think so, the tail was not affected while pulling at the fronts. Just a slightly shorter stroke than the VX.

On the other hand, it was just a single jump and hmmm my friend's friend didn't want to provoke it, so it might have a stall point slightly further down.

There were no problems going from rears to toggles anyway and the swoop felt "right", no unexpected drop in lift while coming to a stop (unlike my FX-94 which I often stalled just as I came to a stop).

Now if only the manual could be done so I can get it approved...


Sobakin  (C License)

May 30, 2011, 5:31 PM
Post #84 of 119 (6636 views)
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?
About brake lines:
Skylark is NOT recommended to change brake lines length - it's precisely calculated for maximum efficiency.
While swoop by rear risers brake lines do their job in holding trail of the wing.
So You can chage brake length if only really know that You are doing.
As for me, brakes much longer than Velocity's factory length, i.e. long enough.
Skylark has recommendation about optimal risers length for all Scirocco sizes, using much longer risers causes short brakes effect.
In attached pic Zver @ Scirocco-64
Attachments: scirocco1.jpg (152 KB)


bofh  (D 13995)

Jun 7, 2011, 12:46 AM
Post #85 of 119 (6461 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that the Scirocco has been approved in Sweden I've done around twenty jumps with it.

The openings are soft (and long), but almost never on heading. It streams a while on heading but as the slider starts to come down it picks a heading and dives towards it, sometimes turning the other way halfway through... Steering the openings on the rears does tame it a bit though.

It flies quite fast while braked.

I, with a WL of 2.2, flew together with my friend's Velo-84@2.5. I was slightly flying from him when we were diving with harness input. When using some toggle input to fly next to each other, I had to make myself big and he made himself smaller so I would not outfly him.

When flaring, I can pull the toggles almost as long as my arms are without stalling it. I do use longer risers than recommended (25" UPT with louie-loops).

I mounted some of PD's slider-stoppers upside down on the front risers, otherwise the RDS rings could come down slightly on the louie-loops and make them harder to grab. The rings are too small for the risers so I could not pull them down over the handles.

I start my 270s at 230m and when done right I am slightly in the corner and pull out on the rears.


dima39  (D 177246)

Jun 7, 2011, 3:41 AM
Post #86 of 119 (6443 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I mounted some of PD's slider-stoppers upside down on the front risers, otherwise the RDS rings could come down slightly on the louie-loops and make them harder to grab. The rings are too small for the risers so I could not pull them down over the handles.

You can use "hammer mod" - work a little with hammer on top of risers to make them "narrower and softer" where risers have more material and sewing (attachment of loops on front risers and place of handles/rings on rear risers).

I had similar problem with regular slider on Velo and other canopies and big front loops with soft inserts - "hammer mod" solved it Smile.

Rings are standard used in industry for regular sliders. Made in Sweden Wink


(This post was edited by dima39 on Jun 7, 2011, 3:54 AM)


Zver  (D 32516)

Jul 7, 2011, 8:43 AM
Post #87 of 119 (6140 views)
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Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/...t;postatt_id=129622;
Attachments: Sinutin ЧР.jpg (54.3 KB)


dima39  (D 177246)

Jul 16, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #88 of 119 (5694 views)
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Re: [Zver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Some info about Scirocco in English:
http://skylarkparachutes.com/en/scirocco/
Latest video from St-Peterburg swoop competition 6-7 July, from training day 6 July:
http://youtu.be/5xnqgU5R-WY


(This post was edited by dima39 on Jul 16, 2012, 3:42 PM)


BMFin

Oct 2, 2012, 1:48 PM
Post #89 of 119 (5358 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Made 3 jumps with a Demo Scirocco 93 @ 2.3.

Openings:
Definetly the most demanding canopy I ever flown in terms of openings.

Openings were soft, but 2 out of three times I got linetwists and became a passanger for a while even though I was extra carefull with my opening position.

Before the 1st jump, I was told by a fellowjumper to steer the opening. I didnt listen to him. My school of thought has always been that steering the opening will more likely cause you linetwists than prevent them. So on the first time I just made sure I open symmetrically and let the canopy sort out it self. As a result I ended up kicking out linetwist for a good 2000 feet. (luckily I opened at around 5000)

Before second jump I just had to check out from youtube, if all the competitive swoopers with scirocco really like to steer the opening and found out most do this quite agressively. (guess I was wrong)

On the second jump I tried pulling the rears symmetrically quite a bit on the snivel stage and it worked perfect. Almost 100% on heading.

However on the third it spun again resulting 1 twist which was luckily cleared quite fast. Definetly the most demanding canopy I ever flown in terms of openings. It felt like the canopy surges forward quite a bit at the end of the snivel and this may easily result in twists if you dont pull on the rears to stop the canopy from surging.

Flight

The trim felt very steep on full flight. You could however float it with brakes very well and the canopy didnt feel that sensitive for harness inputs on the brakes.

I was setting up for a relatively quick 270 at around 250meters. The canopy felt very ground hungry compared to a smaller Xaos 83 with which I have done the same speed rotations from around 190meters.

I felt the rears were very responsive, but the brakes were rather unresponsive and heavy.

Definetly not my choice for an everyday canopy. I felt it was too much of a handfull. Im not looking to be a competitive swooper so I think im gonna be better of with something easier like a Xaos.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 2, 2012, 1:53 PM)


BMFin

Oct 2, 2012, 7:00 PM
Post #90 of 119 (5303 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

I uploaded a short clip of tha last two jumps. One good and one bad. Unfortunately I dont have a video of the nasty one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OGXjRq1bo

It also seems im not the only one with similar experiences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiw4NegPVTc

EDIT: watching this Russian guy fighting with this canopy a new possible malfunction scenario came to my mind. Watch how he almost gets both of his hands stuck between the risers @ 2:04. Imagine not being able to use your arms at this point !! Shocked


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 2, 2012, 7:15 PM)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Oct 2, 2012, 10:23 PM
Post #91 of 119 (5276 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

[off top] Is it a good idea to deploying such a canopy (possible mal and futher cutaway) with tandem in frefall in front of You?


mircan  (D 32291)

Oct 2, 2012, 11:01 PM
Post #92 of 119 (5271 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

It also seems im not the only one with similar experiences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiw4NegPVTc

EDIT: watching this Russian guy fighting with this canopy a new possible malfunction scenario came to my mind. Watch how he almost gets both of his hands stuck between the risers @ 2:04. Imagine not being able to use your arms at this point !! Shocked

it seems that openings got a bit better after he changed something (rings/lines? - google translate didn`t do very well)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Oct 3, 2012, 12:25 AM
Post #93 of 119 (5265 views)
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Re: [mircan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it seems that openings got a bit better after he changed something (rings/lines? - google translate didn`t do very well)
Rings, there were lag in rings design - fragile plastik between the metal semi-parts which catched the lines by it's sharp edges (on fractures)


BMFin

Oct 3, 2012, 4:11 AM
Post #94 of 119 (5231 views)
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Re: [NWPoul] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

None of those openings in the video provided were terminal openings. All hop & pop. Obviously openings are going to be less violent also.

What faractures where? Slider grommets? What plastic? Do you have a picture? The only plastic i remeber seeing on the canopy is the cable connecting the slider to the grommets. Do you mean this cable was caught on the lines or something?

With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 3, 2012, 4:19 AM)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Oct 3, 2012, 4:19 AM
Post #95 of 119 (5223 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What faractures where? Slider grommets? What plastic?
Slider grommets (old design) consisted of two metal parts and plastic rings between

In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
"Vertical separation does not work";)


piisfish

Oct 3, 2012, 5:26 AM
Post #96 of 119 (5210 views)
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Re: [NWPoul] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
"Vertical separation does not work";)
specially with spinning openings Unimpressed


5.samadhi

Oct 3, 2012, 7:49 AM
Post #97 of 119 (5186 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
what if they had a premature? Smile


piisfish

Oct 3, 2012, 8:22 AM
Post #98 of 119 (5172 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
what if they had a premature? Smile
what if he had to cutaway on top of the tandem


BMFin

Oct 3, 2012, 8:59 AM
Post #99 of 119 (5160 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Maby you guys could come and hold us a safety seminar. It seems you have talent for these type of things. We clearly are reckles and dont have a clue what were doing.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 3, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #100 of 119 (5154 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Maby you guys could come and hold us a safety seminar. It seems you have talent for these type of things. We clearly are reckles and dont have a clue what were doing.

Your above remarks are clearly sarcastic, but let's think about the situation - you're jumping a demo canopy on which you have had one good and one bad opening, and which you have heard is a handful and needs careful attention not to spin up. With this in mind your desicion is to exit with a tandem and pull in close proximity to them, as opposed to simply waiting 6 or 8 seconds in the door and adding some horizontal seperation between you and them.

You claim that you pulled soon after exit, couldn't you bypass the brief freefall with the tandem to build in an extra layer of safety?

Given the nature of your jump, jumping a demo that doesn't open well and a short freefall, I don't think it was a wise choice to exit with the tandem and pull in place next to them. You admit to kicking out of line twists for 2000ft on a previous jump, what if there had been a repeat of that?

Others mentioned a premature opening from the tandem, and this can happen for several reasons. Passengers have been known to yank a drouge release mid-freefall, TIs have been known to pull high if there is a problem with the passenger in freefall, and gear has been known to malfunction.

It was a bad call on your part. Get over it, learn something, and make better choices in the future.


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