Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark

 


frost  (D 25011)

Jul 19, 2010, 8:16 AM
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Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark Can't Post

A new crossbraced main canopy has been introduced to the general public at the latest Russian Canopy Piloting Nationals.

Scirocco, piloted by Vsevolod Bedrin, showed some impressive results, earning him a 3rd place in Distance, 4th in Speed (sub-3 sec times) and 2nd place Overall. (Detailed results can be found here: http://www.dropzone.com/...ost=3908284;#3908284)

Canopy is made by a Ukrainian parachute equipment company Skylark http://www.skylark.com.ua/en/, whose canopies have already earned an excellent reputation.

Pics attached.

We will have an opportunity to jump this new wing later this season at the Ranch, cant wait to see how it compares to the Velo and JVX and how it flies at very high wingloadings (~3:1)


(This post was edited by frost on Jul 19, 2010, 11:21 AM)
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diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 19, 2010, 9:38 AM
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Tell me more. 21 cell, 27 cell?


Blink  (C 3275)

Jul 19, 2010, 9:54 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Tell me more. 21 cell, 27 cell?

Using a sophisticated counting method it appears to be 27 cell...


dima39  (D 177246)

Jul 19, 2010, 10:13 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Tell me more. 21 cell, 27 cell?

30 cells Wink !


Decodiver  (D License)

Jul 20, 2010, 1:32 AM
Post #5 of 119 (19586 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

The guy in the first photo appears to have his chest strap completely undone, is that such a good idea?

Cheers,

Coops.




AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 20, 2010, 2:28 AM
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In reply to:
The guy in the first photo appears to have his chest strap completely undone, is that such a good idea?

Cheers,

Coops.

No, except he has a belly band on.




Decodiver  (D License)

Jul 20, 2010, 8:24 AM
Post #9 of 119 (19497 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The guy in the first photo appears to have his chest strap completely undone, is that such a good idea?

Cheers,

Coops.

No, except he has a belly band on.

I hadn't seen that Dave thanks for pointing it out.

Would that belly band hold him in the harness if he had to cut away and then deploy his reserve?

Why not just have a longer chest strap?

Cheers,

Coops.


frost  (D 25011)

Jul 20, 2010, 8:29 AM
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Re: [Decodiver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

There have been plenty of discussions on belly bands and longer chest straps, please use the search button. This topic was not made to discuss benefits and dangers of these devices.


(This post was edited by frost on Jul 20, 2010, 8:29 AM)


stayhigh  (F 111)

Jul 25, 2010, 9:40 PM
Post #11 of 119 (19190 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

how much??? if it is only couple hundred dollar difference why not fly PD or Icarus???


breadhead  (D 236)

Jul 26, 2010, 12:42 AM
Post #12 of 119 (19150 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Tell me more. 21 cell, 27 cell?

30 cells Wink !

Interesting: 6 times tri-cell + 3 times quad-cell in the center = 30 ...


frost  (D 25011)

Jul 26, 2010, 8:10 AM
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Re: [stayhigh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
how much??? if it is only couple hundred dollar difference why not fly PD or Icarus???

I dont know what the pricing will be. The canopy is still in the final stages of pre-production, with several sizes being finalized and jumped.

The developer/manufacturer is trying several new things with this wing, some have not been done before in commercial x-baced parachutes.

Why not PD or Icarus? I dont know. There are plenty of experienced people that have no clue that there are great wings and wing makers out there other than PD or Icarus. They are happy with the great products these two companies make and have no desire to open up their horizons when it comes to trying other parachutes, even if they are just as good (or better) and less expensive. That's perfectly fine, most people are like that.

Then there are folks who like to see innovation and new wing designs driven by a competitive market. These people want to fly good wings, not just what's "in fashion" that year. They are a small minority. Entering an established cross-braced canopy market dominated my giants and getting to these pilots is not an easy task... We've seen some companies try with not much success. I am hoping Scirocco has a strong showing at the World meet next month, it's time for a new wing to make it in the market of 11 year old designs.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Jul 26, 2010, 8:23 AM
Post #14 of 119 (19071 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

found one on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niRin-o3PFs&feature=related


mircan  (D 32291)

Jul 26, 2010, 9:22 AM
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In reply to:
how much??? if it is only couple hundred dollar difference why not fly PD or Icarus???

If we`re looking at the $ only, then we could consider, shipping, taxes and customs and that could pile up to 1000$+...
And if that canopy is equal in performance with Icarus or PD there is no reason for someone from eastern world countries not to buy it (except for "it`s in style" reason).

For example, there is xf-15 canopy from jojo-wings, i bet most of you seen it fly... At least 30% cheaper...


Zver  (D 32516)

Aug 13, 2010, 12:42 PM
Post #16 of 119 (18523 views)
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Wink


(This post was edited by Zver on Aug 13, 2010, 12:53 PM)
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  925.jpg (37.7 KB)


Master_Yoda  (D License)

Aug 15, 2010, 1:06 PM
Post #17 of 119 (18399 views)
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Re: [Zver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow. 30 cells. Gotta wonder if PD will come out with one of their own.


Bolas  (D License)

Aug 15, 2010, 2:24 PM
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if the name will have to change...

http://en.wikipedia.org/.../Volkswagen_Scirocco


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Aug 15, 2010, 2:25 PM
Post #19 of 119 (18375 views)
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Re: [Master_Yoda] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Who's to say PD hasn't experimented with a number of different combinations?

I remember a while back, Icarus had a 11 cell prototype they never ended up taking to market.

More cells != more performance.

Ian


skydivefj

Aug 15, 2010, 2:43 PM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Who's to say PD hasn't experimented with a number of different combinations?

I remember a while back, Icarus had a 11 cell prototype they never ended up taking to market.

dfrom what I am told, PD got a glimps of NZaerosports' NZbrace system and tried to copy it but couldn't get it right, they called it the z brace before aerosports had a name for it.

I believe Icarus spain has been working on an 11 cell with inflatable stabalisers for some time, I believe the inflatable stabalisers 'are' the 10th and 11th cells. but that was from a sponsored athlete bragging not the company.

NZaerosports has still got thier next canopy up thier sleeves I beleive also.

Those that were around will remember the VX was announced, with printed brouchures the very moment the velocity was announced at the 99 pia symp..

PD being the big player needs to make a move before we get to see the next toys....

Either that or one of these more obscure companies getting podium results...

But it apears that JVX and velo are kneck and kneck in performance right now, if this new canopy can do something to disrupt the top swoopers....

I sure hope so.Sly

In reply to:
More cells != more performance.

Not necessarily, more cells equals more lines which equals more drag...

More lift equlas a shorter recovery arc so less speed generated...

The JVX has a much thinner profile and more cells than a velo, but they seem compoarable in performance even with a shorter recovery arc.

This I beleive is why the JFX was developed, to test that theory in the feild.

I know at least one company has experimented with quad cascade lines to try to reduce parasite drag...

It seem though the orange dental floss that you PDFT guys are using is the way forward.

so much to learn.

But as I say, this is all my opinion, not necessarily the companies'.


(This post was edited by skydivefj on Aug 15, 2010, 4:20 PM)


AggieDave  (D License)

Aug 15, 2010, 3:52 PM
Post #21 of 119 (18345 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
More cells != more performance.

Historically 11-cell canopies have opened very poorly, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.

Isn't that what Clint said about the 11-cell (33 cell?) VX that was semi-publicly prototyped a few years ago? There was another open canopy 20 years ago call the Stealth or something like that, that had the same problems with openings.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
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Aug 15, 2010, 5:34 PM
Post #22 of 119 (18334 views)
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Re: [skydivefj] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

FYI

!= means NOT equals.

Blues.
Ian


mr_prick

Aug 16, 2010, 12:10 AM
Post #23 of 119 (18269 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

has anyone succesfully made contact with the company?
i emailed twice now and got nothing back...


skydivefj

Aug 16, 2010, 3:00 AM
Post #24 of 119 (18235 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
FYI

!= means NOT equals.

Blues.
Ian

Oh I did not see the exclamation mark, is that some sort of txt shorthand?

If it means;

doesn't necesarily equal,.. then I agree.

If it means does not equal... then my answer reamians the same.

It is an unknown quantity.


(This post was edited by skydivefj on Aug 16, 2010, 3:01 AM)


piisfish

Aug 16, 2010, 3:19 AM
Post #25 of 119 (18227 views)
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Re: [Bolas] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wonder if the name will have to change...

http://en.wikipedia.org/.../Volkswagen_Scirocco
Scirocco being the name of a wind, I doubt they would have to change it..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirocco


mircan  (D 32291)

Aug 16, 2010, 3:26 AM
Post #26 of 119 (8665 views)
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Re: [skydivefj] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
FYI

!= means NOT equals.

Blues.
Ian

Oh I did not see the exclamation mark, is that some sort of txt shorthand?

more in programming

http://en.wikipedia.org/...ors_in_C_and_C%2B%2B


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 16, 2010, 7:16 AM
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Re: [skydivefj] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

 
You're making a big deal out of the X-braced (and beyond) market, but you have to remember that those canopies represent just a sliver of the overall sport parachute market. If you design an even higher performance canopy, chances are it will be more complex and therefore more expensive, that wing would hold an even smaller market share.

Take PD for example. Since the Velo was released, it has produced one higher performance canopy, the Comp Velo, which is really just a Velo with some factory mods. In that same time, they have release the Pulse, Storm, Sabre2 and the Optimum Reserves (did I miss anything?). It shows you where they put their R&D time and money, and it ain't the leading edge of hgh performance.

There might be ten better ideas out there then X-bracing, but finding someone to develop them and build them into a canopy that jumpers can afford and want to jump is the real trick.


mchamp  (D 32129)

Aug 17, 2010, 8:35 PM
Post #28 of 119 (8477 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Scirocco Speed Vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKe0D7Fnj4M&playnext=1&videos=z55yK5ne1gg&feature=sub


Scirocco Distance Vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t54UugVulNs

Sorry Don't know how to make it clicky......Unsure


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Aug 17, 2010, 9:25 PM
Post #29 of 119 (8463 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
In that same time, they have release the Pulse, Storm, Sabre2 and the Optimum Reserves (did I miss anything?).


Yes, the ZERO.Smile


Master_Yoda  (D License)

Aug 17, 2010, 9:28 PM
Post #30 of 119 (8463 views)
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In reply to:
Scirocco Speed Vid

http://www.youtube.com/...e1gg&feature=sub


Scirocco Distance Vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t54UugVulNs

Sorry Don't know how to make it clicky......Unsure


Bolas  (D License)

Aug 17, 2010, 9:33 PM
Post #31 of 119 (8456 views)
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In reply to:
Quote:
In that same time, they have release the Pulse, Storm, Sabre2 and the Optimum Reserves (did I miss anything?).


Yes, the ZERO.Smile

The Katana and the Vengeance too.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 17, 2010, 10:03 PM
Post #32 of 119 (8449 views)
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Quote:
Yes, the ZERO.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Katana and the Vengeance too.

Zero, yes. Katana, yes. Vengeance, I'm not 100% sure came out after the Velo. Anyone know the release dates on those?


matt002

Aug 18, 2010, 4:50 AM
Post #33 of 119 (8398 views)
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Re: [mchamp] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to see some new HP canopies being developed, the XF-15 is getting some good results too.


Heatmiser  (C License)

Aug 18, 2010, 8:56 AM
Post #34 of 119 (8347 views)
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In reply to:
found one on youtube.
clicky


Sobakin  (C License)

Aug 19, 2010, 4:34 PM
Post #35 of 119 (8215 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

It opens really sweet - like Crossfire. Flying really good - I like it more than Velo. Has a bit shorter arc, but it still in preproduction stage, many changes may be done.
Didn't jump JVX, so can't compare with it.


Cashmanimal  (D 30009)

Aug 20, 2010, 10:55 PM
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Re: [matt002] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Nice to see some new HP canopies being developed, the XF-15 is getting some good results too.

I've been having lots of fun with mine Smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_JrrwHC_hI


Zver  (D 32516)

Oct 18, 2010, 2:54 PM
Post #37 of 119 (7682 views)
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Re: [Cashmanimal] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYXoNsLnLWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQFCAs3XaRI

The typical Scirocco terminal speed opening


(This post was edited by Zver on Oct 18, 2010, 2:58 PM)


Zver  (D 32516)

Oct 26, 2010, 2:34 PM
Post #38 of 119 (7423 views)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvR-pgquw8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdwndejyP1U

Video 2-way flocking on Scirocco DZ Kolomna


(This post was edited by Zver on Oct 26, 2010, 3:48 PM)


Zver  (D 32516)

Dec 10, 2010, 9:44 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/...a9xuUcL5SPk&hd=1
Unpuck opening scirocco-72


Zver  (D 32516)

Jan 22, 2011, 11:24 AM
Post #40 of 119 (6735 views)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dloBNrRdVyA
Speed 1st round on Skylark Scirocco-72ft Dubai 2011


raymod2  (D 25630)

Jan 22, 2011, 4:44 PM
Post #41 of 119 (6723 views)
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Re: [Zver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Was that you Bedrin? It was a nice looking run and it looks like you got the best time on that round (2.909 seconds).


Marc84

Jan 31, 2011, 12:05 PM
Post #42 of 119 (6473 views)
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Re: [Zver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Zver

Nice videos... keep up the testing... Canopy looks like it is coming a long nicely.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
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Jan 31, 2011, 4:49 PM
Post #43 of 119 (6434 views)
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Thanks for sharing.

Note: Possibly edit the videos so we can see the opening, then go to the setup and landing? No need to watch the whole plane ride, and flight down Smile

Blues,
Ian


yoink

Feb 5, 2011, 10:31 PM
Post #44 of 119 (6267 views)
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Completely as an aside, that video is a great example of just how much faffing post-deployment an RDS adds on to your process, and why a full RDS isn't an everyday 'jumping in groups' deal.


bofh  (D 13995)

Feb 19, 2011, 9:38 AM
Post #45 of 119 (6150 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

According to Skylark's web page, they are now selling the Scirocco.

Sizes from 64 to 124. Listed price is 1845USD for all sizes, one can choose between HMA-350 and HMA-400 lines and with or without a RDS. HMA-950 for lower steering lines. Comes with soft links.

The recommended wing loading is from 1.9 to 2.6. 2.2 to 2.5 for competition.


Rigless

Feb 20, 2011, 1:40 PM
Post #46 of 119 (6064 views)
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Are there any more in depth or general reviews about this canopy anywhere?


bofh  (D 13995)

Feb 20, 2011, 11:33 PM
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In reply to:
Are there any more in depth or general reviews about this canopy anywhere?

Its been discussed a bit on a Russian forum, but the I can't make much sense of the google translation...
http://www.skycentre.net/...opic=6791&st=140

"competitive large" is probably a comp velo. Smile
"the great" seems to be another google translate term for a velocity. Tongue


bofh  (D 13995)

Feb 21, 2011, 8:53 AM
Post #48 of 119 (5987 views)
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In reply to:
Listed price is 1845USD for all sizes, one can choose between HMA-350 and HMA-400 lines and with or without a RDS.

I just got a mail from them. Its 1845 including the RDS.


Marc84

Feb 25, 2011, 7:39 AM
Post #49 of 119 (5748 views)
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Wow... $1845USD with a RDS too... That is a very good deal compared to a Comp Velo or a JVX What is a JVX going for these days? Is the just the pre-production price?


bofh  (D 13995)

Feb 25, 2011, 11:41 PM
Post #50 of 119 (5689 views)
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In reply to:
Wow... $1845USD with a RDS too... That is a very good deal compared to a Comp Velo or a JVX What is a JVX going for these days? Is the just the pre-production price?

They are in full production, but perhaps you ment introduction price? I really don't know. The web site doesn't say anything about it (I think, I only read the russian site via Google Translate). Perhaps they want to keep the price low to get more canopies out there to get some brand awareness?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Feb 26, 2011, 4:39 AM
Post #51 of 119 (7303 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Wow... $1845USD with a RDS too... That is a very good deal compared to a Comp Velo or a JVX What is a JVX going for these days? Is the just the pre-production price?

They are in full production, but perhaps you ment introduction price? I really don't know. The web site doesn't say anything about it (I think, I only read the russian site via Google Translate). Perhaps they want to keep the price low to get more canopies out there to get some brand awareness?
Sure and half of the jumpers in US ans West Europe are flying canopies and jumping rigs made in Russia and Ukraine, right?Wink


bofh  (D 13995)

Feb 27, 2011, 1:19 AM
Post #52 of 119 (7249 views)
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In reply to:
In reply to:
They are in full production, but perhaps you ment introduction price? I really don't know. The web site doesn't say anything about it (I think, I only read the russian site via Google Translate). Perhaps they want to keep the price low to get more canopies out there to get some brand awareness?
Sure and half of the jumpers in US ans West Europe are flying canopies and jumping rigs made in Russia and Ukraine, right?Wink

I'm probably stupid, because I don't think I understand what you mean.

Do you mean that they have to keep a low price in order to sell them at all because they are made in Ukraine, unlike say Honduras? Perhaps, people have their prejudices. I've previously bought a gear bag, a freefly overall, a camera overall and swoop pants that were made by Skylark and they were all well made so I've only had positive experiences with them this far.


dima39  (D 177246)

Feb 27, 2011, 5:44 AM
Post #53 of 119 (7218 views)
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You will see some Scirocco's during World Cup in Klatovy (i hope 5-10 canopies Wink).
Best place to try Scirocco - 3 competitions In Ukraine this year. You also can meet and speak also with Scirocco's inventor here Smile.
It wasn't possible to organize test jumps in Dubai due weather holds (no time for fun jumps).
We had Scirocco's 72, 77 and 87 with us.


(This post was edited by dima39 on Feb 27, 2011, 5:52 AM)


stayhigh  (F 111)

Feb 27, 2011, 6:08 AM
Post #54 of 119 (7209 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

By moving the production from us to honduras, they've succesfully took away atleast three jobs,
If you look on bright side they've just created three jobs in honduras


frost  (D 25011)

Feb 28, 2011, 6:43 AM
Post #55 of 119 (7131 views)
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Quote:
they have to keep a low price in order to sell them at all because they are made in Ukraine, unlike say Honduras?

In general, as the record proves, there are plenty of great products out there that cost less, are made in other countries and also perform as well or better than most of the US equivalents.

Skylark has been around for many years, they have a proven record with successful line of canopies and gear and are one of the largest companies in that part of the world, if not #1. I experienced first hand the quality of their workmanship and design with a 9-cell Magellan-120 - it is just excellent.

Funny, a good friend of mine and an excellent swooper was very skeptical and nervous to try the Scirocco. His used to say "Velocity forever!". Until he actually did try it. Now he is all about it. Sly

If you take anything away from this discussion, take this: don't automatically dismiss a product just because "it's not made in the US". If you get an opportunity to test jump a different/new canopy [in your experience range] - dont ever miss it!!


dima39  (D 177246)

Mar 9, 2011, 10:51 AM
Post #56 of 119 (6931 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Scirocco hunts for Velocity Smile
Attachments: wall_MG_9144.jpg (87.6 KB)


RH1N0  (D 22500)

Mar 28, 2011, 12:11 PM
Post #57 of 119 (6748 views)
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The center of the tail appears to be poking straight up. Why is that?

Rhino


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Mar 28, 2011, 1:06 PM
Post #58 of 119 (6731 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Got to see this wing fly this weekend. Looks like a wing that performs well. It had some go-juice for sure, I was impressed.

Ian


frost  (D 25011)

Apr 4, 2011, 6:51 AM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure does seem to be a capable wing. It has shown some excellent results in the last few months. And the wing has only been out there for less than a year...

Sergei's distance run from the last comp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvq-g_xyjk


Rigless

Apr 4, 2011, 9:04 AM
Post #60 of 119 (6485 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Sad to see there's still nothing really groundbreaking in the HP canopy industry.. Unsure


morris

Apr 4, 2011, 11:35 AM
Post #61 of 119 (6455 views)
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Is he going for 10 or 5ft gates?
Was this round 1 or 2?


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Apr 4, 2011, 11:49 AM
Post #62 of 119 (6452 views)
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Re: [morris] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

10 ft gates. He's currently an amateur (I'm positive he'll be pro next year though).

That was round 1 I believe.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Apr 4, 2011, 11:51 AM
Post #63 of 119 (6450 views)
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Re: [Rigless] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sad to see there's still nothing really groundbreaking in the HP canopy industry.. Unsure

I'm not sure we're going to see anything groundbreaking for some time. It's like saying "nothing groundbreaking in aviation cause aircraft still have wings".

It's going to be a lot of small steps from hereon out until some wild new tech is developed and someone finds a creative use for it.

Ian


frost  (D 25011)

Apr 4, 2011, 12:40 PM
Post #64 of 119 (6435 views)
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In reply to:
I'm not sure we're going to see anything groundbreaking for some time. It's like saying "nothing groundbreaking in aviation cause aircraft still have wings"
Agreed. Creating performance parachutes may already be at a point where each new step is just a small enhancement to an already extremely efficient design and the further we go the harder it is to come up with a new "true" enhancement...

Quote:
Is he going for 10 or 5ft gates?
He is an Am/measured on 10 footers due to qualifications restrictions, but he is flying and hitting five footers... He is definitely at a Pro level.


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

Apr 4, 2011, 5:26 PM
Post #65 of 119 (6385 views)
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In reply to:
Sure does seem to be a capable wing. It has shown some excellent results in the last few months. And the wing has only been out there for less than a year...

Sergei's distance run from the last comp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEvq-g_xyjk
Big.


AggieDave  (D License)

Apr 4, 2011, 5:30 PM
Post #66 of 119 (6381 views)
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Sad to see there's still nothing really groundbreaking in the HP canopy industry.. Unsure

I'm not sure we're going to see anything groundbreaking for some time. It's like saying "nothing groundbreaking in aviation cause aircraft still have wings".

It's going to be a lot of small steps from hereon out until some wild new tech is developed and someone finds a creative use for it.

Ian

A local former-jumper and mad-scientist came up with a canopy design where you sew the cells out of alignment and you have to load up the canopy to pull the misshapen airfoil into shape. This was instead of crossbracing. It might work, haven't seen anything like it before.

He's also the guy that came up with "Leonardizing" for a F111 canopy (ask in the history forum). Great idea, but it didn't work out so well in the real world.


bofh  (D 13995)

May 1, 2011, 3:22 PM
Post #67 of 119 (6175 views)
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Re: [frost] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

I got my Scirocco-77 last week. The colours were much better than how they looked at the design program Skylark have on their website. Smile

Its not yet been approved for jumping in Sweden though...


Fab  (C License)

May 2, 2011, 10:48 AM
Post #68 of 119 (6102 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

@ bofh.

Pictures!!!!

What do you think about the scirocco. Have you jumped it yet? How does it compare to a velo?

Thanks...


bofh  (D 13995)

May 2, 2011, 2:13 PM
Post #69 of 119 (6066 views)
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In reply to:
@ bofh.

Pictures!!!!

What do you think about the scirocco. Have you jumped it yet? How does it compare to a velo?

Thanks...

I don't have any pictures of it, more than some bad unpacking pictures:
http://www.facebook.com/...011&l=9db35498f9

I currently jump a VX-80@2.2 with Xaos lines (X-mod) and I've only done a few jumps with a Velo-96 so I can't really compare them. The Scirocco is a 77.

It is not legal to jump yet, but a friend's friend did test it once...

The opening was a bit odd. It streamed with the slider up, straight and didn't search around at all. The slider didn't go down until the jumper pulled the rear risers gently (after waiting for about 5 seconds) and then it opened softly and on heading with no tendency to turn at all. I think I like that, but it would be bad if one pulled low and/or didn't know about it...

Before the breaks were released it was much more stable than the VX, it didn't want to turn much while being slightly unbalanced in the harness while stowing the slider and opening the chest strap. With the VX I look a bit like a drunk driver while doing that. The rear risers were not tested to turn while the canopy was braked.

Once the breaks were released, it responded a lot to harness turns and wanted to dive a lot more than the VX. There was not much pressure building up in the front risers and even after 720 degrees, it was not too hard to pull at the front risers.

The stall point seemed to be at chest level, it started to rock quite a bit at that point. My friend's friend didn't want to provoke it while it was not legal to jump it... The steering lines was long enough to not break while pulling at the front risers, so the range was much shorter than on the VX.

The back risers seems to behave quite like the VX's. It had a rather long range before the stall point came close.

It had a steeper trim than the VX, but with breaks it seemed to float quite well. Will have to do some flocking to see how it compares.

Once it was diving, it kept diving. At final my friend's friend did a slow 90 degree harness turn that was supposed to end up high, but the canopy was diving really steep and the rear risers had to be pulled to get it to plane out in time. According to the FlySight, the vertical speed peaked at 75km/h and the ground speed peaked at 68km/h (into a strongish wind) and it became a 50 meter swoop without really trying. Up high while playing/testing the different controls, the top ground speed was 137km/h. My friend's friend's freefall speed was 165km/h during that jump.


All in all, my friend's friend liked it a lot. I can't wait until it has been approved (might need to wait for Skylark to write a manual, which is Swedish requirement, on the other hand the Xaos canopies have been approved and they don't have manuals, do they?).


piisfish

May 3, 2011, 12:01 AM
Post #70 of 119 (6006 views)
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In reply to:
It is not legal to jump yet, but a friend's friend did test it once...

I can't wait until it has been approved (might need to wait for Skylark to write a manual, which is Swedish requirement, on the other hand the Xaos canopies have been approved and they don't have manuals, do they?).
maybe this would deserve a new thread, but ??? WTF do they need to "legalize" mains ?

Scirocco is not a crimea Unimpressed


bofh  (D 13995)

May 3, 2011, 2:33 AM
Post #71 of 119 (5990 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
It is not legal to jump yet, but a friend's friend did test it once...

I can't wait until it has been approved (might need to wait for Skylark to write a manual, which is Swedish requirement, on the other hand the Xaos canopies have been approved and they don't have manuals, do they?).
maybe this would deserve a new thread, but ??? WTF do they need to "legalize" mains ?

Scirocco is not a crimea Unimpressed
Smile

The regulations state that all equipment (mains, AADs, reserves and containers) used in Sweden must be listed in one of our two rule books. For it to be listed there, the manual and some basic information about the equipment (manufacturer, their address, available sizes etc) should be sent to a group of riggers and they decide if they also want to see the equipment (in this case they did want that, probably because no one has previously got a Skylark canopy around here).

The idea is mostly that they should know about all equipment that is being used and ban obviously bad equipment - like if someone would start making reserves without proper reinforcement again. They also monitor SBs and make sure Swedish riggers get to know about them and sometimes write SBs of their own (they've done that to ban some of the alternatives to the three ring system for example).

For mains they mostly divide the canopies in two groups - HP and non-HP and we have rules for when you are allowed to start jumping HP canopies. In the future they might want to start a new category (like "ultra HP") and thus they want to know about the canopies being used.


AggieDave  (D License)

May 3, 2011, 2:46 AM
Post #72 of 119 (5987 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
like if someone would start making reserves without proper reinforcement again.

Did they catch that problem the first time or was it unknown until problems started coming up and Precision started a recall?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2011, 5:56 AM
Post #73 of 119 (5956 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

That's what you call bureaucracy.


bofh  (D 13995)

May 3, 2011, 8:42 AM
Post #74 of 119 (5931 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
like if someone would start making reserves without proper reinforcement again.

Did they catch that problem the first time or was it unknown until problems started coming up and Precision started a recall?

Nope...

When I started jumping the Mojo was not allowed, being a BASE canopy. Today they've allowed most BASE canopies (all people have bothered to ask about). So things have at least become better.


dima39  (D 177246)

May 5, 2011, 8:46 AM
Post #75 of 119 (5817 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Sciroccos vs. Velocities battle :):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uwq1M_WbQ


Rigless

May 5, 2011, 2:36 PM
Post #76 of 119 (7048 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Kickass Cool

Nice to see some good comp for PD Wink


hookitt  (D License)

May 5, 2011, 3:20 PM
Post #77 of 119 (7036 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sciroccos vs. Velocities battle :):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uwq1M_WbQ

You should indicate which one is which in the video.


dima39  (D 177246)

May 5, 2011, 3:53 PM
Post #78 of 119 (7030 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

3 Comp Velos, 1 Velo and 3 Scirocco
Comp Velos - blue/white/grey
Velo - red/white
Scirocco - other colors


hookitt  (D License)

May 5, 2011, 4:20 PM
Post #79 of 119 (7019 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks

They look impressive.


dima39  (D 177246)

May 5, 2011, 4:33 PM
Post #80 of 119 (7012 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

I was mistaken - 4 Comp Velo vs. 3 Scirocco
Red/white - also Comp Velo


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

May 6, 2011, 11:08 AM
Post #81 of 119 (7017 views)
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?


dima39  (D 177246)

May 6, 2011, 2:49 PM
Post #82 of 119 (6990 views)
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?

From mine small 250+ jumps experience with crossbrased canopies (regular Velo-79/84 and Scirocco-72/77) - not shorter than regular Velo with added 3 inches in brake lines. I didn't jump Comp Velo, so can't compare with it. A little different pressure in the bottom end, when you stay in deep brakes before turn.


(This post was edited by dima39 on May 6, 2011, 2:56 PM)


bofh  (D 13995)

May 6, 2011, 10:56 PM
Post #83 of 119 (6951 views)
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?

No, I don't think so, the tail was not affected while pulling at the fronts. Just a slightly shorter stroke than the VX.

On the other hand, it was just a single jump and hmmm my friend's friend didn't want to provoke it, so it might have a stall point slightly further down.

There were no problems going from rears to toggles anyway and the swoop felt "right", no unexpected drop in lift while coming to a stop (unlike my FX-94 which I often stalled just as I came to a stop).

Now if only the manual could be done so I can get it approved...


Sobakin  (C License)

May 30, 2011, 5:31 PM
Post #84 of 119 (6772 views)
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The stall point seemed to be at chest level

Brake lines too short?
About brake lines:
Skylark is NOT recommended to change brake lines length - it's precisely calculated for maximum efficiency.
While swoop by rear risers brake lines do their job in holding trail of the wing.
So You can chage brake length if only really know that You are doing.
As for me, brakes much longer than Velocity's factory length, i.e. long enough.
Skylark has recommendation about optimal risers length for all Scirocco sizes, using much longer risers causes short brakes effect.
In attached pic Zver @ Scirocco-64
Attachments: scirocco1.jpg (152 KB)


bofh  (D 13995)

Jun 7, 2011, 12:46 AM
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Re: [bofh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that the Scirocco has been approved in Sweden I've done around twenty jumps with it.

The openings are soft (and long), but almost never on heading. It streams a while on heading but as the slider starts to come down it picks a heading and dives towards it, sometimes turning the other way halfway through... Steering the openings on the rears does tame it a bit though.

It flies quite fast while braked.

I, with a WL of 2.2, flew together with my friend's Velo-84@2.5. I was slightly flying from him when we were diving with harness input. When using some toggle input to fly next to each other, I had to make myself big and he made himself smaller so I would not outfly him.

When flaring, I can pull the toggles almost as long as my arms are without stalling it. I do use longer risers than recommended (25" UPT with louie-loops).

I mounted some of PD's slider-stoppers upside down on the front risers, otherwise the RDS rings could come down slightly on the louie-loops and make them harder to grab. The rings are too small for the risers so I could not pull them down over the handles.

I start my 270s at 230m and when done right I am slightly in the corner and pull out on the rears.


dima39  (D 177246)

Jun 7, 2011, 3:41 AM
Post #86 of 119 (6579 views)
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In reply to:
I mounted some of PD's slider-stoppers upside down on the front risers, otherwise the RDS rings could come down slightly on the louie-loops and make them harder to grab. The rings are too small for the risers so I could not pull them down over the handles.

You can use "hammer mod" - work a little with hammer on top of risers to make them "narrower and softer" where risers have more material and sewing (attachment of loops on front risers and place of handles/rings on rear risers).

I had similar problem with regular slider on Velo and other canopies and big front loops with soft inserts - "hammer mod" solved it Smile.

Rings are standard used in industry for regular sliders. Made in Sweden Wink


(This post was edited by dima39 on Jun 7, 2011, 3:54 AM)


Zver  (D 32516)

Jul 7, 2011, 8:43 AM
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Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/...t;postatt_id=129622;
Attachments: Sinutin ЧР.jpg (54.3 KB)


dima39  (D 177246)

Jul 16, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #88 of 119 (5830 views)
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Re: [Zver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Some info about Scirocco in English:
http://skylarkparachutes.com/en/scirocco/
Latest video from St-Peterburg swoop competition 6-7 July, from training day 6 July:
http://youtu.be/5xnqgU5R-WY


(This post was edited by dima39 on Jul 16, 2012, 3:42 PM)


BMFin

Oct 2, 2012, 1:48 PM
Post #89 of 119 (5494 views)
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Re: [dima39] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Made 3 jumps with a Demo Scirocco 93 @ 2.3.

Openings:
Definetly the most demanding canopy I ever flown in terms of openings.

Openings were soft, but 2 out of three times I got linetwists and became a passanger for a while even though I was extra carefull with my opening position.

Before the 1st jump, I was told by a fellowjumper to steer the opening. I didnt listen to him. My school of thought has always been that steering the opening will more likely cause you linetwists than prevent them. So on the first time I just made sure I open symmetrically and let the canopy sort out it self. As a result I ended up kicking out linetwist for a good 2000 feet. (luckily I opened at around 5000)

Before second jump I just had to check out from youtube, if all the competitive swoopers with scirocco really like to steer the opening and found out most do this quite agressively. (guess I was wrong)

On the second jump I tried pulling the rears symmetrically quite a bit on the snivel stage and it worked perfect. Almost 100% on heading.

However on the third it spun again resulting 1 twist which was luckily cleared quite fast. Definetly the most demanding canopy I ever flown in terms of openings. It felt like the canopy surges forward quite a bit at the end of the snivel and this may easily result in twists if you dont pull on the rears to stop the canopy from surging.

Flight

The trim felt very steep on full flight. You could however float it with brakes very well and the canopy didnt feel that sensitive for harness inputs on the brakes.

I was setting up for a relatively quick 270 at around 250meters. The canopy felt very ground hungry compared to a smaller Xaos 83 with which I have done the same speed rotations from around 190meters.

I felt the rears were very responsive, but the brakes were rather unresponsive and heavy.

Definetly not my choice for an everyday canopy. I felt it was too much of a handfull. Im not looking to be a competitive swooper so I think im gonna be better of with something easier like a Xaos.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 2, 2012, 1:53 PM)


BMFin

Oct 2, 2012, 7:00 PM
Post #90 of 119 (5439 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

I uploaded a short clip of tha last two jumps. One good and one bad. Unfortunately I dont have a video of the nasty one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OGXjRq1bo

It also seems im not the only one with similar experiences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiw4NegPVTc

EDIT: watching this Russian guy fighting with this canopy a new possible malfunction scenario came to my mind. Watch how he almost gets both of his hands stuck between the risers @ 2:04. Imagine not being able to use your arms at this point !! Shocked


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 2, 2012, 7:15 PM)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Oct 2, 2012, 10:23 PM
Post #91 of 119 (5412 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

[off top] Is it a good idea to deploying such a canopy (possible mal and futher cutaway) with tandem in frefall in front of You?


mircan  (D 32291)

Oct 2, 2012, 11:01 PM
Post #92 of 119 (5407 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

It also seems im not the only one with similar experiences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiw4NegPVTc

EDIT: watching this Russian guy fighting with this canopy a new possible malfunction scenario came to my mind. Watch how he almost gets both of his hands stuck between the risers @ 2:04. Imagine not being able to use your arms at this point !! Shocked

it seems that openings got a bit better after he changed something (rings/lines? - google translate didn`t do very well)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Oct 3, 2012, 12:25 AM
Post #93 of 119 (5401 views)
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Re: [mircan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it seems that openings got a bit better after he changed something (rings/lines? - google translate didn`t do very well)
Rings, there were lag in rings design - fragile plastik between the metal semi-parts which catched the lines by it's sharp edges (on fractures)


BMFin

Oct 3, 2012, 4:11 AM
Post #94 of 119 (5367 views)
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Re: [NWPoul] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

None of those openings in the video provided were terminal openings. All hop & pop. Obviously openings are going to be less violent also.

What faractures where? Slider grommets? What plastic? Do you have a picture? The only plastic i remeber seeing on the canopy is the cable connecting the slider to the grommets. Do you mean this cable was caught on the lines or something?

With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 3, 2012, 4:19 AM)


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Oct 3, 2012, 4:19 AM
Post #95 of 119 (5359 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What faractures where? Slider grommets? What plastic?
Slider grommets (old design) consisted of two metal parts and plastic rings between

In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
"Vertical separation does not work";)


piisfish

Oct 3, 2012, 5:26 AM
Post #96 of 119 (5346 views)
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Re: [NWPoul] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
"Vertical separation does not work";)
specially with spinning openings Unimpressed


5.samadhi

Oct 3, 2012, 7:49 AM
Post #97 of 119 (5322 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
what if they had a premature? Smile


piisfish

Oct 3, 2012, 8:22 AM
Post #98 of 119 (5308 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
what if they had a premature? Smile
what if he had to cutaway on top of the tandem


BMFin

Oct 3, 2012, 8:59 AM
Post #99 of 119 (5296 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Maby you guys could come and hold us a safety seminar. It seems you have talent for these type of things. We clearly are reckles and dont have a clue what were doing.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Oct 3, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #100 of 119 (5290 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Maby you guys could come and hold us a safety seminar. It seems you have talent for these type of things. We clearly are reckles and dont have a clue what were doing.

Your above remarks are clearly sarcastic, but let's think about the situation - you're jumping a demo canopy on which you have had one good and one bad opening, and which you have heard is a handful and needs careful attention not to spin up. With this in mind your desicion is to exit with a tandem and pull in close proximity to them, as opposed to simply waiting 6 or 8 seconds in the door and adding some horizontal seperation between you and them.

You claim that you pulled soon after exit, couldn't you bypass the brief freefall with the tandem to build in an extra layer of safety?

Given the nature of your jump, jumping a demo that doesn't open well and a short freefall, I don't think it was a wise choice to exit with the tandem and pull in place next to them. You admit to kicking out of line twists for 2000ft on a previous jump, what if there had been a repeat of that?

Others mentioned a premature opening from the tandem, and this can happen for several reasons. Passengers have been known to yank a drouge release mid-freefall, TIs have been known to pull high if there is a problem with the passenger in freefall, and gear has been known to malfunction.

It was a bad call on your part. Get over it, learn something, and make better choices in the future.


5.samadhi

Oct 3, 2012, 9:20 AM
Post #101 of 119 (6599 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
what if they had a premature? Smile
what if he had to cutaway on top of the tandem
he's claiming since the tandem usually opens 4,000' feet lower than his main deployment if he has to cutaway he will be able to cutaway and open his reserve and still be higher vertically than the tandem Pirate


mircan  (D 32291)

Oct 3, 2012, 12:37 PM
Post #102 of 119 (6554 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
With the tandem I pitched 10sec after exit. Dont worry, there was a lot of vertical separation before they deploy.
what if they had a premature? Smile
what if he had to cutaway on top of the tandem
he's claiming since the tandem usually opens 4,000' feet lower than his main deployment if he has to cutaway he will be able to cutaway and open his reserve and still be higher vertically than the tandem Pirate

And why he would not? Even if he was spinning 2k feet and then cutaway (as he did before) he would still have 2k altitude left. He had a questionable judgment call, but trashing that is happening here and off-topic posts... Come on. You always, always do everything 100% by the book?
It would be nice to get back to the topic...Unsure


5.samadhi

Oct 3, 2012, 9:03 PM
Post #103 of 119 (6502 views)
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Re: [mircan] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

yes because tandem skydives are predictable and always occur exactly the same at a specific and predictable set opening altitude Laugh

oh yes but carry on with talking about the crossbraced canopy no need to talk about an obvious safety error somebody made Sly


piisfish

Oct 4, 2012, 5:41 AM
Post #104 of 119 (6465 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Maby you guys could come and hold us a safety seminar. It seems you have talent for these type of things. We clearly are reckles and dont have a clue what were doing.
I am not saying you don't have a clue of what you are doing, but please admit that it was not the smartest move. I am not know for my smart moves either. Welcome to the club Laugh

Oh and congrats on flying the Scirocco, it seems to be a beautiful flying machine Smile


(This post was edited by piisfish on Oct 4, 2012, 5:42 AM)


Zver  (D 32516)

Oct 3, 2013, 4:29 AM
Post #105 of 119 (5146 views)
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Scirocco - take 3d place in 3d 3rd FAI European Canopy Piloting Championships 2013 [In reply to] Can't Post

The Russian athlete Alexander Golovkin took 3rd place at the 3rd European Championships in his Scirocco-72ft. Congratulations to Alexander and wish him new victories.
Attachments: 998734_539674539419399_1840807662_n.jpg (100 KB)


welder

Oct 7, 2013, 10:36 AM
Post #106 of 119 (4850 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

BMFin wrote:
I uploaded a short clip of tha last two jumps. One good and one bad. Unfortunately I dont have a video of the nasty one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OGXjRq1bo

It also seems im not the only one with similar experiences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiw4NegPVTc

EDIT: watching this Russian guy fighting with this canopy a new possible malfunction scenario came to my mind. Watch how he almost gets both of his hands stuck between the risers @ 2:04. Imagine not being able to use your arms at this point !! Shocked



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymk6mhvqrMk
scirocco 72 @ wl. 2.65


Pablo.Moreno  (C 13216)

Oct 7, 2013, 10:15 PM
Post #107 of 119 (4784 views)
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Re: [welder] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

welder wrote:
BMFin wrote:
I uploaded a short clip of tha last two jumps. One good and one bad. Unfortunately I dont have a video of the nasty one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OGXjRq1bo

It also seems im not the only one with similar experiences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiw4NegPVTc

EDIT: watching this Russian guy fighting with this canopy a new possible malfunction scenario came to my mind. Watch how he almost gets both of his hands stuck between the risers @ 2:04. Imagine not being able to use your arms at this point !! Shocked



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymk6mhvqrMk
scirocco 72 @ wl. 2.65

it looks like a lot of rears input on opening, let it open before you try to start flying it, and once is open then fix whatever you need to fix (highly recommend go with the turn and you will save yourself a few revolutions if you get line twist).

Depending on the wing loading (in higher wing loadings by just touching rears the canopy will violently turn where you wanted it to turn). On my JVX I am just a relax bag and I have pretty good openings and is loaded at 2.5/1.


BMFin

Oct 8, 2013, 6:53 AM
Post #108 of 119 (4693 views)
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Re: [Pablo.Moreno] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like you didnt read the text in this thread and you definetly havent jumped this canopy.

This canopy actually NEEDS to be given rear riser input on opening. (it even says so in the manual)


hookitt  (D License)

Oct 9, 2013, 10:17 AM
Post #109 of 119 (4586 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe so but the not always pretty video shows he never even pulled on them and it opened.

If you must put rear riser input to open the canopy, that's a weird ass canopy, just asking to twist up... by design! Laugh That reminds me of the NZ Aerosports test jump videos when the canopy would just snivel for thousands of feet till they figured it out.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Oct 9, 2013, 10:24 AM
Post #110 of 119 (4574 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you still fly it???

I've seen two scirocco fly, both of them flown by not so great swoopers so I can't really say how they perform. But both of pilot agrees that openings are beyond high performance, and it will scan the traffic for you left and right.


BMFin

Oct 9, 2013, 10:51 AM
Post #111 of 119 (4563 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont fly it anymore. I only tested one demo for a few jumps. In my opinion the openings were horrible since it was so prone to linetwists.

I was initially told by a frined of mine that you need to pull down on the rears to have it open nicely. I didnt believe him, since I have always thought one shouldnt touch the rears during snivel. Friend of mine insisted that it even says so in the manual. I thought it was BS and didnt listen to him. After making a few jumps I had to admit he was right. It really seemed like the only option is to pull down on the rears during snivel and then try to steer the canopy. (you can read my experience I described earlier in this thread)

BTW. Heres a few videos this friend of mine posted on youtube

Heres the 93sqft:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RmHjnvkZSE

The 77sqft:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtewDqbCvc8

Im scared shitless to watch the 77sqft video.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Oct 9, 2013, 10:54 AM)


welder

Oct 9, 2013, 1:24 PM
Post #112 of 119 (4518 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

BMFin wrote:
I was initially told by a frined of mine that you need to pull down on the rears to have it open nicely.

yes, I've heard that too. But still, openings are not good specially for working canopy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOZAUUcoE4c


(This post was edited by welder on Oct 9, 2013, 1:27 PM)


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 10, 2013, 1:20 AM
Post #113 of 119 (4417 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks! You made my day. I've though my canopy is opening bad/funny. Wink


Zver  (D 32516)

Oct 10, 2013, 6:45 AM
Post #114 of 119 (4348 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4AM7fef0k


Pablo.Moreno  (C 13216)

Oct 10, 2013, 3:07 PM
Post #115 of 119 (4274 views)
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Re: [Zver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

Or maybe is just packing and body position lol.
I bet the manufacture doesn't said pull rears like your life depends on it, for the canopy to open properly, maybe I am wrong.
I still remember the few first opening on my JVX, they were pretty wild, but now they are sweet, for either HnP or terminal.


BMFin

Oct 10, 2013, 6:42 PM
Post #116 of 119 (4235 views)
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Re: [Zver] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

In every video shown here, the pilot always pulls down on the rears. Can anyone show us a video of this canpy actually onpening well without pulling rears?


highlee369  (D 31311)

Nov 10, 2013, 1:43 AM
Post #117 of 119 (3806 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

BMFin wrote:
In every video shown here, the pilot always pulls down on the rears. Can anyone show us a video of this canpy actually onpening well without pulling rears?

I have over 400 jumps on a Scirocco 82. 90% of my openings were on heading ONLY when pulling on the rears and letting it snivel. This canopy is not designed to open by relaxing in the harneess . I would do this and never touch my risers on most Velo openings, but this is a different machine.

I personally love the openings and how this canopy flies.


Hellis

Nov 10, 2013, 2:59 AM
Post #118 of 119 (3783 views)
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Re: [highlee369] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

highlee369 wrote:
BMFin wrote:
In every video shown here, the pilot always pulls down on the rears. Can anyone show us a video of this canpy actually onpening well without pulling rears?

I have over 400 jumps on a Scirocco 82. 90% of my openings were on heading ONLY when pulling on the rears and letting it snivel. This canopy is not designed to open by relaxing in the harneess . I would do this and never touch my risers on most Velo openings, but this is a different machine.

I personally love the openings and how this canopy flies.


Wonder what would happen if you shorten the lower steering lines (and making BK-TOG longer).
But I guess the manufactor has tried that already..


BMFin

Nov 27, 2013, 6:23 PM
Post #119 of 119 (3400 views)
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Re: [Hellis] Scirocco - new x-braced main by Skylark take 1st place in Russian championship 2011 [In reply to] Can't Post

I heard they are testing a new canopy called chinook. Its gonna be the next generation from scirocco. Will be interesting to see what comes out of it !



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