Jun 29, 2010, 4:29 PM
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Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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I'm a video editor at a very busy (tandem) dropzone. At the moment, editing averages 8 minutes per footage, so a customer can walk out the door with a DVD in hand within, say, 20 minutes of landing. Pretty darn convenient.
(DVD writer captures the footage straight from camera, transitions already added while filming, and I mix in some music through a soundboard. Editing time = video time + 2 min.)
It has worked very well in an era of SD video. With the coming of HD, however, we're looking into setting up a new video editing system, because our cameramen are already filming in HD, but customers are still getting SD videos as we're burning everything onto DVD's. And that's not cool.
Adamant that a customer needs to receive 1) HD footage in 2) very short time, here's my question of the past few months: how's the best way to do that?
(I'm writing this partially because I'm looking for some input; partially because I want to share the road. I've seen other threads discuss general video editing, but nothing that would discuss specifically this: editing videos on back-to-back loads and giving out finished product within half an hour of landing, in HD.)
So far, we've come up to this: if we want to give out 1) edited footage in HD and also 2) edited footage in YouTube-size (so that it can be uploaded straight from our dropzone computers), we need to switch to editing software like Final Cut, Premiere, Pinnacle or similar. That way, I'll edit footage once and "share" it into 2 different-quality videos.
The problem, though: all editing softwares (that I'm aware of) "lock down" while footage is being imported or exported: I cannot do anything else while footage is being imported from a card into software or exported from software onto a destination drive. As a busy dropzone, though, there's no time for that: everything needs to be edited back-to-back.
So: does anybody know if there's editing software that does NOT "lock down" while importing/exporting?
***
Bringing down import/export time with a VERY powerful computer is an option, so we've considered getting a quad-core Mac. But: how fast would be fast? And does the latest version of any given software actually "know" how to use full capacity of a quad-core Mac?
***
The other option is somehow working around the "lock down" problem. For example:
1) setting up a few Macs: while one computer is importing, I'm using the second for editing and third is exporting. That'd be a costly bugger, though.
2) using a few different softwares: while, say, Final Cut is importing, I'm editing something else on Premiere and so forth. That'd be a pain-in-the-butt for training up back-up editors.
3) setting up different users within the same Mac, so while Final Cut under one user is importing, I'm logged in as another user and editing. Both a guy from the Apple store and a local computer guy said: "Better not do that, love." =)
***
Another idea is using iMovie for importing (it converts footage into .aic) and then throwing imported footage into Final Cut Express for actual editing. Has anybody used that option? Are there any other softwares that can import/export for one another
*** *** ***
Basically, it's a one long-winded topic. So far, our boys have had their say, our marketing people have had theirs, our owners have, our manifest has, I have, computer support has - and still there are so many options.
Jun 29, 2010, 5:00 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Based on my limited understanding of the newer stuff, it seems to me that most people trying to HD or AVCHD formats are using vegas pro and are able to work on a number of videos at the sametime. A quick search on this fourm will provide you a number of threads on the subject.
Also the current mod on this forum works for a company that produces educational video to teach you how to use the editing program to it's fullest, also would be found in a search of this fourm.
While mac is a nice machine, I own a G4, the pisser is mac refuses to license AVCHD codec. thus making a windows machine running vagas pro a faster and better way to go.
It's my understanding dvd's are done in 3 to 4 mins tops using the tools in vegas. DSE is the one to ask or the others he has trained or help set up.
Jun 29, 2010, 5:38 PM
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Re: [stratostar] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Cheers for that =). Will look into it.
DSE (D 29060)
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Jun 29, 2010, 5:43 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Vegas is the ONLY app that allows for multiple instances being open while importing, editing, rendering. All other apps require one machine per active instance.
Try the link above. Disclaimer-: my company developed this software for Sony.
DES, I watched your videos. When you write "my company developed this software for Sony", you're not talking about plug-ins for Sony Vegas, are you? Just an instructional DVD about using Sony Vegas, right? Or am I missing something?
DSE (D 29060)
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Jun 29, 2010, 6:44 PM
Post #8 of 74
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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The tool you see in the video is the Sony Production Assistant plugin. My company (my brainchild) created this software for Sony. I do not receive a benefit for the software sales, however. And yes...my company also does training videos.
Jun 30, 2010, 8:28 AM
Post #9 of 74
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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To avoid the lockup issue you can use a suite of programs. In Final Cut you can use the "send to" command to export the job using compressor. This will let you keep working in final cut while exporting multiple versions of the video. Premier and media encoder should work in the same way.
The Mac Pros are due for an update so I wouldn't get one.
(This post was edited by grayhghost on Jun 30, 2010, 10:13 AM)
Jul 20, 2010, 6:07 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Now, I heard that Edius 5 should do the job of editing:
* on-the-spot * without rendering * without "locking down" while importing/exporting
There's virtually no information about Edius 5 on dropzone.com. Anybody have first hand experience?
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 21, 2010, 2:41 AM
Post #11 of 74
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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you heard incorrectly. All NLE's can edit "on the spot" except FCP. All NLE's require renders to any output format that can be transported ie; DVD or YouTube, thumbdrive. All NLE's can import media without affecting background operations, but only one NLE is capable of rendering to multiple sources while editing on another source.
Jul 21, 2010, 4:15 PM
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Re: [DSE] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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you heard incorrectly. All NLE's can edit "on the spot" except FCP. All NLE's require renders to any output format that can be transported ie; DVD or YouTube, thumbdrive. All NLE's can import media without affecting background operations, but only one NLE is capable of rendering to multiple sources while editing on another source.
DSE, one day when we meet on a dropzone somewhere, I'm gonna bring you a case of beer =)
Jul 22, 2010, 11:34 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Hi Maria!
seeing as you are taiking about a couple of macs, have you considered final cut server. it supports "Multiformat delivery" http://www.apple.com/...atures/delivery.html. ie setup a target to render to mpeg2 and youtube-size for each export. seeing as it is not too hardware bound it should run on a hackentosh too :-). thus one machine to ingest from the video guys firewire/h264 -> aic/prores and into fcs, one machine to do the editing (fetch from fcs, edit return to fcs) and fcs export to dvd and youtube. saw a presentation here about a year ago on fcs and fcp, was quite amazing what they were doing. maybe someone at apple nz could give you a mini demo of the capabilities. I just tested final cut express (4.0.1) and was able to import h264 from my camera's memory card and work on a project in parallel in the same instance, so no lockup there (though I somehow doubt that this will work with firewire import). during export there is a definite lockup. regards charlie
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 23, 2010, 1:43 PM
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Re: [CharlieAt] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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For 999.00 you can batch render on a costly machine. You still can't burn simultaneous burns, can't edit on simultaneous, unique projects, nor ingest multiple cards at one shot while doing all of the above.
If you're really a die-hard Mac fan as opposed to choosing hammers for pounding nails and saws for cutting wood...it's a good way to go. As a user of both PC and Apple solutions, I don't see the attraction. $4k (about the cost of a single well-appointed Mac, but still doesn't include multiple burners or the server system) will get you two powerhouse, multicore PC systems with software and hardware to burn 6 DVDs at once while editing, ingesting, rendering, and uploading to YouTube all at the same time. All while editing natively (no file format conversion). All at a quality maintain vs a quality loss.
Isn't the purpose of a computer to multitask without spending a fortune?
Jul 23, 2010, 5:36 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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setting up a new video editing system, because our cameramen are already filming in HD, but customers are still getting SD videos as we're burning everything onto DVD's. And that's not cool.
So you want to burn on Blue ray?
I have thought about this, and as many customers are ready for this, many are not.
Wouldn't you be better sticking with SD for now and actually editing on a computer and get the the high definition when you and your customers are ready?
Correct me if I am wrong but you can't burn HD footage onto a dvd, so you have to use Blue ray or HDDVD, which not everybody has a player. and HDDVD is going the same way as Beta video?
So you will have to do both SD and blue ray and your camera guys will have to get HD lenses.
It is close for all that but not quite there yet I don't reckon.
Computer editing is an undertaking on its own and you will find less and less cameras with editing functions in them.
You said you do all the editing on the camera that is also HD. Is that a HD mini DV camer or what camera/editing?
Burning in HD is is a whole other can of worms.
(This post was edited by rhys on Jul 23, 2010, 6:02 PM)
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Jul 23, 2010, 6:57 PM
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Re: [rhys] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Quote:
Correct me if I am wrong but you can't burn HD footage onto a dvd, so you have to use Blue ray or HDDVD, which not everybody has a player. and HDDVD is going the same way as Beta video?
BZZZZ, wrong answer You can burn AVCHD footage to a normal DVD in mode 5 and it will be HD footage that is playable on BluRay and PS3 consoles. The disk is only playable on those devices though so you need to make sure they don't try to play it in a normal DVD player.
HDDVD is already dead. There is not a company that is making HDDVD's anymore or the player for them. I have an HDDVD player and all I have are 5 HDDVD's for it so its already worse then BetaMax.
You can burn to BluRay but why? The cost of a BluRay disk is still $2-3 or higher per disk. A BluRay will hold 25gigs of video, a DVD will hold 4.7 gigs of video. The largest I've seen a HD tandem video run is about 1.5 gigs. Its not even close to filling a DVD for size let alone going over that mark. If you are doing something like Year End or Best of videos that are going to be 30-45 minute epic master pieces... sure you might go over the 4.7 gig file size abnd need a BluRay.
(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Jul 23, 2010, 6:58 PM)
Jul 23, 2010, 7:44 PM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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You can burn to BluRay but why?... ... to be 30-45 minute epic master pieces... sure you might go over the 4.7 gig file size abnd need a BluRay.
Thanks for that. I 'think' that clarifies a couple of issues; So you can burn a short HD video onto a DVD and a DVD will play it in standard definition and a blue ray will pay it in HD?
Is the difference between DVD and Blue ray disks just storage volume?
I thought it was a complete different system for high definition? i.e. blueray and HD DVD...
(This post was edited by rhys on Jul 23, 2010, 7:46 PM)
PhreeZone (D License)
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Jul 23, 2010, 8:06 PM
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Re: [rhys] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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If you Burn AVCHD footage to a DVD-5 then the only player that can read it is a BlueRay player. If you put that disk in a DVD player it is unusable. If you burn SD footage to a DVD then a DVD or BluRay player can read it.
BluRay and HD DVD were competing formats for playing High Definition video on a disk. HD DVD as a format is dead. DEAD. D-E-A-D. The only High Definition format that is currently supported is Blu-Ray.
AVCHD footage on a DVD-5 is tricking a BlueRay player into playing High Def codec compressed footage off a normal DVD. The downside is the files are unreadable on a normal DVD player. BluRay players can play BluRays or DVD's so it just sees the footage as a datastream and plays it with out caring if its HD or SD.
The difference in storage abilities is a huge difference, HD Movies are HUGE and will not fit on a standard DVD in HD quality so they had to design a whole new laser and method to put more and more data on the same size disk. The longer the movie the larger the files, some HD movies are pushing 22 gigs of size on the disk. To do this on a DVD you would be asked to change the disk 4-5 times during the course of watching a movie at home.
Jul 23, 2010, 8:54 PM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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so I was correct in the first place then!
Except... at least beta hung around in the prosumer market. for a while
All I now is that HD skydive vids are a can of worms that will cost lots on postage and re-do's!!
(This post was edited by rhys on Jul 23, 2010, 8:58 PM)
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 23, 2010, 8:58 PM
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Re: [rhys] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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No, you're not correct at all A-Burning hi-def DVD's isn't "a whole 'nother can of worms." It's straightforward as hell, no different than burning a regular DVD 5. B-You CAN burn HD on a DVD5, which you said can't be done. You CAN'T play that in a normal DVD player, it must be a BD player, computer, or PS3.
However, what this DOES mean to a DZ is that they don't need to invest in BD burners, and can still burn HD on a standard DVD5, same thing they're burning SD DVDs on.
A computer doesn't need to be a lot bigger/better/faster to edit HD and burn HD. HD is more compressed, requiring more CPU, but outside of that...it's all the same as SD video for the most part.
Jul 23, 2010, 9:02 PM
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Re: [DSE] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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No, you're not correct at all A-Burning hi-def DVD's isn't "a whole 'nother can of worms." It's straightforward as hell, no different than burning a regular DVD 5. B-You CAN burn HD on a DVD5, which you said can't be done. You CAN'T play that in a normal DVD player, it must be a BD player, computer, or PS3.
I see that you can infact put a HD video on a DVD and play it as high def in a blue ray player, simple.
The Difficulty is the people that have a dvd player with a HD (ready) TV that order a hd dvd off us and can't play it when they get home = $$$ time time time. I want 1 system that works for most people without fucking around.
Until the majority of people have blue ray players, which will still take time, it is not worth it.
(This post was edited by rhys on Jul 23, 2010, 9:03 PM)
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 23, 2010, 9:16 PM
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Re: [rhys] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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This is why at restaurants they have an offering called a "menu."
You want a burger and fries=5.99. You want a steak and fries=19.99
Smart business offers people more than one choice. Your earlier post said that HD was harder than SD, and that HD can't be burned on a standard disc. I'm not sure which side of the coin you're debating.
Give people a choice. Charge more for HD. If they ask for HD, this would generally mean they have a Blu-ray player or PS3 game console. If you're not sure...ask.
Jul 23, 2010, 10:42 PM
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Give people a choice. Charge more for HD. If they ask for HD, this would generally mean they have a Blu-ray player or PS3 game console. If you're not sure...ask.
Maybe down the track, too much at the moment, our footage is 10x better than many places anyway that are still using dv tapes and analogue editing and we put time into our product, as i said HD is just dowm the road, and that will be at the time it ceases to be an encumberence.
I am sure it is much less of an encumberence to you than most but simple changes like that have dire consequnces if not approached properly anf that can const some serious $$.
I have seen the busiest tandem dropzone in Australia recently purchas $20k worth of computer and program (vegas) and invest in it only to go back to using the system (mac) they had before as it was difficult to make a new system as effective as the last. the older system was 'what they knew', changing takes time and when it cost you time it cost you money.
It all comes down to your system and infrastucture, what works for you will not work for someone else.
I like things that work for everybody.
(This post was edited by rhys on Jul 23, 2010, 10:46 PM)
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 23, 2010, 11:00 PM
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Re: [rhys] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Again...you're putting something out there that isn't remotely accurate. Shooting/ingesting/editing/Delivery of HD is not any different at all from doing SD. Same machines and burners to both.
Now...if you're looking at attempting to offer "one size fits all" then you're right. you won't find it.
Because some people want HD and they're willing to pay for it. Others aren't. As far as the DZ that "heavily invested 20K in Vegas.....I've thrice asked for their name. It is beyond rational imagination that any business would turn away from a PC multitask for Apple singular task that cost twice as much to boot. With out a name...I don't believe they exist.
Jul 23, 2010, 11:46 PM
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Re: [DSE] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Shooting/ingesting/editing/Delivery of HD is not any different at all from doing SD. Same machines and burners to both.
Now I am confused, what is the reason for blue ray and blue ray players then if there is no difference, is the blue ray part simply the ability to play high definition footge?
(This post was edited by rhys on Jul 23, 2010, 11:49 PM)
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 24, 2010, 8:20 AM
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Apparently you're not understanding... BD(blu-ray, not Blue ray) is a laser type. Nothing more. It allows for various layers of a specific type of disc to be read differently. However, the system also reads older type DVDs, the same DVDs we've been using for years. A DVD is merely a digital container. It can contain any number of different objects such as music, video, stills, data.... So a BD/Blu-ray player can read old/legacy files as well as new format files ie; AVCHD or high bitrate MPEG.
In short, the only reason one needs BD is if they want to view HD. If they have a computer, then BD is not necessary either, not for the kind of work product we create in skydiving.
Jul 24, 2010, 4:12 PM
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What you don't seem to understand is that my standpoint is based on the fact the more than 70% of customers will still have a normal DVD player but a high definition TV.
My issue is with my customers understanding (or lack thereof) of what they need.
They will say they want high definition and order it and when they get home they will not be able to watch thier video.
Our custmers do not live just down the road they live in other countries and they WANT that video, and as easy as it would be for them to convert it, they will call me or email me and ask me to send them another one and I will be compelled to do so.
and it will cost me about $15 in postage and packaging + time, every time that happens.
This is one scenario of many that I am trying to avoid.
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 24, 2010, 7:35 PM
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What you don't seem to understand is that my standpoint is based on the fact the more than 70% of customers will still have a normal DVD player but a high definition TV.
My issue is with my customers understanding (or lack thereof) of what they need.
They will say they want high definition and order it and when they get home they will not be able to watch thier video.
Our custmers do not live just down the road they live in other countries and they WANT that video, and as easy as it would be for them to convert it, they will call me or email me and ask me to send them another one and I will be compelled to do so.
and it will cost me about $15 in postage and packaging + time, every time that happens.
This is one scenario of many that I am trying to avoid.
Perhaps customers in New Zealand aren't as technically quick as people in Australia, Africa, or the US? I'm not understanding your point. You seem to have it in your head that you can't deliver both (which is what many DZ's offer; BOTH) while charging more for HD. I'd really hate to think that's so, as Fiji and other locations are doing very well with HD/SD choice delivery.
As well...why do you have to ship DVDs when you can hand em' over in less than 7 minutes, 10 minutes if you really take your time?
Jul 26, 2010, 8:20 AM
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I think what he's trying to say is that some people will ask for HD when they don't have the equipment to play HD, because they don't know better. Such as people having a regular DVD player hooked upp to a HDTV. Then when they cannot play their video, they will complain to him and he'll have to make them a SD version. I wonder if it would be possible to hack together a hybrid DVD, where a DVD menu points to either normal DVD SD footage which a DVD player will understand, or HD footage which a computer or BD player will understand...
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 26, 2010, 8:52 AM
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I think what he's trying to say is that some people will ask for HD when they don't have the equipment to play HD, because they don't know better. Such as people having a regular DVD player hooked upp to a HDTV. Then when they cannot play their video, they will complain to him and he'll have to make them a SD version. I wonder if it would be possible to hack together a hybrid DVD, where a DVD menu points to either normal DVD SD footage which a DVD player will understand, or HD footage which a computer or BD player will understand...
Earlier in this same thread, it's discussed. You actually have to do a little communicating. You can offer both. AFAIK, everyone that offers BD also offers SD. I can't for the life of me imagine offering HD but not SD. Someone actually has to open their mouth to speak to the student prior to the jump and ask "Do you have an HD player?" In all the SD and HD discs we've delivered, never once has someone purchased an HD disc but only had an SD player. And yes...there is a way to do a dual format disc. It's called a DVD10, and cannot be applied in a tandem operation. Unfortunately, it requires special equipment and a master. You can put both on a disc or thumbdrive as data, however. Some newer disc players have USB inputs.
Jul 27, 2010, 7:03 PM
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It seems that this whole discussion could become moot with better communication with the customer. If you can clearly tell the customer that they need to have the correct equipment to view the HD version of their tandem DVD, then your problem is over. This shouldn't be difficult because if they want this option you should be charging more to begin with and the customer should intuitively understand this. Also, if this same customer for some reason takes their disc home overseas and can't play it on their SD DVD player, then you just charge them for your time and expense for the re-edit and shipping.
Maybe I'm not totally clear on this but this is what I think I'm hearing. good luck! pope
Aug 3, 2010, 3:09 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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A month after starting this thread, this is what I've found:
(I'm writing it down for future reference - or others facing the same issue. If anything needs correcting, I really appreciate your comments, cheers.)
Software solutions basically came down to 2 options:
* either Sony Vegas, which allows editing a project while another one is rendering, back-to-back (but will need a bloody powerful Windows computer) or *any other non-linear software (Final Cut, Premiere, Edius, iMovie etc) which can only work on 1 project at a time (and therefore needs a few computers, otherwise there would be idle time between each edit waiting for it to render)
First, we considered getting Sony Vegas. I tested their trial version - its interface is quite different from Final Cut or iMovie that I've used before, but after getting used to it, it seems rather powerful: loads of effects and options.
But after a while, Final Cut seems like a better option, because:
* Sony Vegas only works with Windows, but we're keen on getting a Mac. Our other computers are Macs, they're reliable, easy to maintain and network, whereas with Windows we'd need a separate tech support, Sony Vegas' customer support doesn't have a phone in New Zealand, takes a week (in average) to answer any e-mails and when it does, it doesn't give straight answers, so it seems like a headache to begin with. * Also, if there's only 1 editing station - a mother-of-a-computer - then if anything on it fails, there's no backup. So if we're better off getting multiple editing stations anyway, then we might as well get Macs with their native software, as Sony Vegas wouldn't really offer any advantage in that case.
So now we're considering Final Cut. It is Mac-based, with reliable tech and customer support and is likely to need 3 editing stations - to give each computer rendering time for preparing DVD files. Also, when exporting into High Definition Quicktime, there's virtually no rendering time necessary, so a customer can walk away with his USB pretty much straight after editing. As a lot of our customers are travellers, then they often have tiny laptops without CD/DVD slots and to them, having a DVD really isn't that convenient. Plus, my university-training was based on Final Cut and I'm pretty familiar with its interface and reasons why uni's video editing teachers preferred Apple/Final Cut to anything else.
So that's it, in a nutshell, although it's still work in progress.
Aug 3, 2010, 7:32 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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I consider myself pretty familiar with FCP since that's what I use for all my creative projects. It's a great NLE system when you have the luxury of time. It's going to be frustratingly slow for tandem videos, however, since the goal of almost all tandem video is to whip 'em out as quickly as possible in the highest quality possible within 10 minute window. That's not going to happen with FCP because, 1. You have to convert all Sony files to Apple ProRes into the timeline. 2. You have to manually put all clips together side by side. 3. You have to render all clips, which is much slower than Vegas. 4. You have to burn DVD using a separate DVD authoring software, which is much slower then integrated burning capability within Vegas.
I do not know the programming capability of FCP, but I do not believe you can automate any of the steps, out of the box at least.
Again, I love FCP because it’s one heck of powerful software that can carry on any creative project. If it’s good enough for Hollywood, it’s good enough for any artist, but when it comes to speed for tandem video editing/authoring, it’s a dog. I wish you luck, and I am looking forward to your report when you get everything set up.
4DBill
DSE (D 29060)
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Aug 3, 2010, 9:25 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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I understand all your points. Honest, I do. I'm a certified Apple, Adobe, and Sony instructor, FWIW. Buying Final Cut "Because we're keen on Mac's" is a silly proposition from that particular statement alone. Video computers do not need much networking (if any at all) in a tandem operation, and Windows is every bit as easy to network as a Mac these days.
That said...whatever works for you, works for you. There are two Mac-based DZ's that have recently installed monster Vegas systems with Automation...Because it's about choosing the right tool for the right job. If speed isn't part of your need (which you mentioned earlier it was), then you need to reconsider your tools.
Aug 4, 2010, 9:01 AM
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Re: [DSE] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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hey dse ill be buying the new 27inch imac and getting the upgraded processor and ram in the next few weeks
i am getting this because i like macs, my college uses mainly fcp on its regular machines so its good for compatibiliy
BUT
next summer ill be finished college and will be back in the states and will probably have tandem / general skydive footage to edit
have you done any benchmark testing on using vegas threw parellels or booting into windows at start up on a mac? im hoping that with a 2.8/2.9 quad core and 8gb of ram that the rendering times will be acceptable when using windows on the mac
PhreeZone (D License)
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Aug 4, 2010, 10:18 AM
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Re: [DARK] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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One of the issues on the Mac side from I understand is that at the hardware level the Mac's have some of the code disabled on processor to do some of the MPEG decoding and even running Parellels won't help over come that issue.
DSE (D 29060)
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Aug 4, 2010, 10:00 PM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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One of the issues on the Mac side from I understand is that at the hardware level the Mac's have some of the code disabled on processor to do some of the MPEG decoding and even running Parellels won't help over come that issue.
Exactly right. Apple and MPEG is a bullshit combination. There is simply no other way to say it.
Aug 5, 2010, 6:39 AM
Post #43 of 74
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Re: [DSE] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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One of the issues on the Mac side from I understand is that at the hardware level the Mac's have some of the code disabled on processor to do some of the MPEG decoding and even running Parellels won't help over come that issue.
Exactly right. Apple and MPEG is a bullshit combination. There is simply no other way to say it.
so any ideas on how much of a performance loss there would be? 10% /20% or something way more dramatic like 50% or more? eventually i would just do a dedicated pc build for vegas but if i could edit render and burn on the imac in 15 mins i would do that in the mean time
Aug 5, 2010, 7:12 AM
Post #44 of 74
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Re: [DARK] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Nothing is disabled in hardware, its an os x issue. Run windows natively and it will be just like a pc of equivalent hardware.
PhreeZone (D License)
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Aug 5, 2010, 7:42 AM
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Re: [adamT] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Correct, I misspoke on it. Its not a chip code change but its that Apple's OS will not use the hardware level acceleration abilities and instead moves everything to software. Once its moved to software its a LOT slower and its because Apple does not use the hardware code. Bootcamp will eliminate this issue because it lets Windows run with no OS X issues under it.
Aug 5, 2010, 8:13 AM
Post #46 of 74
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Re: [PhreeZone] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Yup and if vegas is going to be your main application its kind of silly to spend the extra money on a mac, but if you need os x for other things its a workable solution.
Oct 25, 2010, 6:59 PM
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Re: [4dbill] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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I wish you luck, and I am looking forward to your report when you get everything set up.
4DBill
After a long (and often painful) process of going through pros and cons of pretty much every editing system we knew COULD work - to find what would work the best - we did finally settle on Sony Vegas. Reasons? It proved to be the fastest way of editing due to no import time (working straight from MS cards) and DVD burning straight from timeline (no need to render first and then burn).
It's been a month since we gradually started to move all of our editing onto Vegas and truth be told, I, personally, haven't looked back.
So, what we did, in short:
We put Vegas on a 8-core 64-bit PC with Windows Professional. Hardcore-wise, I don't know what's inside it, since a technoguru-sort-of-a-guy set it up, but it's supposedly high-end "meant for editing" workhorse. (Also, it cost accordingly.)
I spent a better part of 3 weeks in August testing Sony Vegas trial version to figure out the fastest and easiest workflow for our needs. When I finally landed with what I considered "a pretty good way of editing", it timed 4,5 minutes from inserting a video card to pressing "Burn DVD". And that's without Production Assistant.
Now, a month into working fully on Sony Vegas, it takes me a comfortable and leisurely 4 minutes tops per edit: checking the footage, adding slow motions, working with sound, adding 3 sets of songs, checking that I like what I've made.
So am I happy? Yes. It works, it looks good, it saves my time. Is our dropzone happy? Yes.
But I do miss working on a Mac. Occasionally, Windows presents me with error messages I've learned to regard as purely something only Windows does and not always explaining me WHY it didn't like what I was doing - and what it needs me to change next time I do it. But over time and trial/error, we've made sort of a peace agreement with it: I do things patiently, let it take its time when it's "thinking" and in exchange, it lets me work without complaining.
In overall, Vegas seems to have an array of functions I do not need (for tandem footage) and lacks only a few comfort-related shortcuts I'd love, but all in all, I'd say that in a hands of a good video editor, it is very much a powerful tool for a busy dropzone.
DSE (D 29060)
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Oct 25, 2010, 11:30 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Thank you for reporting back. You're very fast, that's wonderful to hear.
Oct 26, 2010, 8:25 PM
Post #49 of 74
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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You say you can burn straight from timeline without rendering? Not sure how to do that. I make the timeline then have to press "Make Movie" to render, then send to DVD studio.
DSE (D 29060)
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Oct 26, 2010, 8:29 PM
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Re: [bigorangemd] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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You're using Movie Studio. Mann is using Vegas Pro.
Oct 26, 2010, 10:13 PM
Post #51 of 74
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Re: [DSE] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Oh, never mind. Guess that's what the other few hundred dollars gets you.
DSE (D 29060)
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Oct 26, 2010, 10:27 PM
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Re: [bigorangemd] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Oh, never mind. Guess that's what the other few hundred dollars gets you.
Among several other things, yes. Scripting is kind of a big deal, the AVC decoder is too. The rest of it is kinda useless for most tandem/skydiving purposes, but there are a lot of other cool tools too.
Nov 15, 2010, 11:25 PM
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Re: [Mann] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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Not to sure what happen to my last post :S Mann have you had a look at swoopware its a great program made for skydivers that helped me out heaps , edits all my footage for me while i pack which means more jumps for me :D does DVD, Blu-ray, photos, uploads to youtube and even emails the customer with the link. check it out www.swoopware.com
Dec 2, 2010, 1:05 AM
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Re: [DSE] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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can the automation be done with studio?
DSE (D 29060)
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Dec 2, 2010, 1:09 AM
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Re: [wetbrick] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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unfortunately, Studio doesn't have the API unlocked to sink hooks into. Studio is a stand alone. You can do all the same stuff, just not the automation part.
FWIW, you can get really fast with the Studio product too, and burn in under 10 mins, even though most of it is manual.
(This post was edited by DSE on Dec 2, 2010, 1:10 AM)
Dec 2, 2010, 11:19 PM
Post #73 of 74
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Re: [wetbrick] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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how do i get the render burn time down ? Even when i select burn to dvd its taking 10 to 15 minutes
Get a faster computer?
DSE (D 29060)
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Dec 2, 2010, 11:26 PM
Post #74 of 74
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Re: [wetbrick] Editing HD tandem-footage on-the-spot, fast. Any ideas?
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how do i get the render burn time down ? Even when i select burn to dvd its taking 10 to 15 minutes
There are so many potential answers...it's hard to pinpoint. ~Maybe a faster burner? ~Faster DVD (ie; x16 vs x 4?) ~Bottlenecks in the system? ~other apps running? ~rendering to incorrect format and having to re-encode in DVDA? ~Slow CPU? ~Lack of RAM?
That's what happens when you have multiple clipboards. I'm sorry! 
You can burn AVCHD footage to a normal DVD in mode 5 and it will be HD footage that is playable on BluRay and PS3 consoles. The disk is only playable on those devices though so you need to make sure they don't try to play it in a normal DVD player. 
