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Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not?

 

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Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jul 1, 2010, 7:07 PM
Post #201 of 294 (1214 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
[edited to respond to theonlyski]
The BSR was implemented at the last BOD meeting. The new SIM doesn't publish for a couple more months. That's the problem with paper; takes a while for it to catch up.

You would think they could edit the online version pretty easily though...Crazy

Why bother editing one line when the entire book is under review, re-write, and approval, due to be accepted in two weeks at the Summer Board meeting?
It's on the USPA site and has been since February. Letters in Parachutist have been written, and it was in the USPA newsletter.

In other words, the info is/has been out there since the week after it was implemented.


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Jul 1, 2010, 7:25 PM
Post #202 of 294 (1207 views)
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Re: [billvon] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

And here's today's reason why this is still a bad idea:

========================================
I came across this thread because I recently got in a plane without a rig on. I'm fairly new at camera flying (about 75 total and 20 tandem video jumps). A tandem student was already geared up when they decided they wanted video and I was asked to do it. In my rush to get ready and do the ground interview I had everything ready except my rig. I don't know how long it would've taken me to notice (hopefully I would have) but the engine was running before someone came to the plane and told me.
========================================

That is BAD!!!!! I can see where that would be more likely to happen with an actual camera flier working tandem vids than an avg fun jumper. I have seen the camera fliers at my dz get really busy and they are literally landing, grabbing a packed rig out of the trailer, and jumping right on the next load. Sometimes the TI may even be holding a rig for them in the plane. Point is some of them are used to climbing into the plane without their rig already on their back. If a fun jumper is so easily distracted by something like a GoPro as to do the same thing they should absolutely never jump with one again.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jul 1, 2010, 7:42 PM
Post #203 of 294 (1200 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeah... your absolutely right, that you can't be right. If you disagree with up number jumpers some of them are quick to just insult you, usually by calling you a 'SkyGod' with 'MadSkillz' and telling you that you think you are hot shit, have a bad attitude and don't want to learn etc... it is just their MO.

no one from my quarter has called you names nor insulted you.
OTOH;
~you've read reasonable arguments from very experienced people, yet you disregard anything they have to say (that's insulting as well).
~You've made your own potentially eggregious errors in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)
~You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again)
~There is a long list of incidents, potential incidents, major and minor errors that come from a broad spectrum of skydivers in your particular class.

Yet you've essentially tossed all that off and said "none of that applies to me, because I'm more capable than others at my experience level."
One cannot have a reasonable debate with a brick wall.
Ask Skittles, TunaSalad, or several others here; I'm HAPPY AS HELL to take you out on training jumps while you wear a camera with me. And you'll perhaps recognize why you aren't ready. But I'm _always_ willing to teach, learn, and help others the way I've been taught and helped along the way.


(This post was edited by DSE on Jul 1, 2010, 7:53 PM)


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Jul 1, 2010, 8:07 PM
Post #204 of 294 (1191 views)
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Re: [DSE] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
In reply to:
~You've made your own potentially eggregious error in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)

I did what I felt was right at the time... and explain my thought process in that thread. I'm happy to go back there and continue to discuss it. As long as you or anyone else reads through the entire thread first so it's not a cut and paste discussion..

In reply to:
~You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again)

So I've been told... but no one has managed to tell me why. Crazy In fact, the responses I've got are essentially, 'Wow did you just ask that... you need to stop jumping now.' and 'you don't know what you don't even know, and ' You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again). Pretty much makes my point about how you guys always have the "right" answers.

In reply to:
~There is a long list of incidents, potential incidents, major and minor errors that come from a broad spectrum of skydivers in your particular class.
Yet you've essentially tossed all that off and said "none of that applies to me, because I'm more capable than others at my experience level."

Save your words for your own mouth.

In reply to:
One cannot have a reasonable debate with a brick wall.
Ask Skittles, TunaSalad, or several others here; I'm HAPPY AS HELL to take you out on training jumps while you wear a camera with me. And you'll perhaps recognize why you aren't ready. But I'm _always_ willing to teach, learn, and help others the way I've been taught and helped along the way.

I have stood my ground on some issues and admitted defeat on others... but what ever makes you feel better about your 'constructive criticism'.

I'm always happy to learn... whether it's from you, my dz instructors, my friends, a noob fresh off AFF, it doesn't matter, any experience level can have something valuable to add.


(This post was edited by ridestrong on Jul 1, 2010, 8:17 PM)


DARK  (B 31685)

Jul 1, 2010, 8:14 PM
Post #205 of 294 (1183 views)
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Re: [DSE] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

good debate guys keep it up

i pretty much agree with everyone since my last post so not much to say really


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Jul 1, 2010, 8:50 PM
Post #206 of 294 (1164 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(directed to DSE)
Quote:
I have stood my ground on some issues and admitted defeat on others... but what ever makes you feel better about your 'constructive criticism'.


@DSE

I know you don't take that personally, Douglas, as this guy is a jackass to everyone! Shocked Angelic

Hopefully he'll grow enough to one day be properly embarrassed by the stuff he's been saying in these threads. Unimpressed


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 1, 2010, 9:34 PM
Post #207 of 294 (1149 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...and may or may not have dementia...

That always cracks me up - the tendency for people to say, "may or may not". Of course that is true, anyone may or may not be anything! LaughWink


timmyfitz  (D License)

Jul 2, 2010, 6:56 AM
Post #208 of 294 (1092 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
~You've made your own potentially eggregious error in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)

I did what I felt was right at the time

With more experience you would not only know that this was a bad decision but it would have also NOT felt right. It worked out for you in this instance but getting away with making a bad decision does not make it right.


Heatmiser  (C License)

Jul 2, 2010, 8:16 AM
Post #209 of 294 (1063 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
~You've made your own potentially eggregious error in cutting away your camera helmet and not pulling your reserve handle in a malfunction/cutaway scenario (wow!)

I did what I felt was right at the time... and explain my thought process in that thread. I'm happy to go back there and continue to discuss it. As long as you or anyone else reads through the entire thread first so it's not a cut and paste discussion..

In reply to:
~You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again)

So I've been told... but no one has managed to tell me why. Crazy In fact, the responses I've got are essentially, 'Wow did you just ask that... you need to stop jumping now.' and 'you don't know what you don't even know, and ' You've made a very flawed statement about "clearing airspace." (Wow! again). Pretty much makes my point about how you guys always have the "right" answers.

In reply to:
~There is a long list of incidents, potential incidents, major and minor errors that come from a broad spectrum of skydivers in your particular class.
Yet you've essentially tossed all that off and said "none of that applies to me, because I'm more capable than others at my experience level."

Save your words for your own mouth.

In reply to:
One cannot have a reasonable debate with a brick wall.
Ask Skittles, TunaSalad, or several others here; I'm HAPPY AS HELL to take you out on training jumps while you wear a camera with me. And you'll perhaps recognize why you aren't ready. But I'm _always_ willing to teach, learn, and help others the way I've been taught and helped along the way.

I have stood my ground on some issues and admitted defeat on others... but what ever makes you feel better about your 'constructive criticism'.

I'm always happy to learn... whether it's from you, my dz instructors, my friends, a noob fresh off AFF, it doesn't matter, any experience level can have something valuable to add.

Actually, I did respond to what you said here. I'm neither a skygod, nor am I interested in bashing you. Clearing your airspace, if possible is a good idea, and it is the responsibility of the High Man to continue to track away and create separation. The reason is simple, the low man is closer to the ground. The low man may be an A license jumper, (who is required to have pack opening by 3000 feet, to allow time to deal with malfunctions). I'm sorry if you didn't say that the high man should pitch to create vertical separation if a collision is imminent, either it was you, or the person you were quoting. In the event it was you, here was my response, "1st and foremost, If you're the high guy at 3000 feet and a collision is imminent, you don't immediately pitch to gain "vertical separation." The second your PC comes out, you've lost all directional control. If you snivel, and the low guy has a quicker opening, then you have a decent chance at a canopy collision. High man is the one that continues to track away and opens lower." Wink


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jul 2, 2010, 8:22 AM
Post #210 of 294 (1059 views)
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Re: [Remster] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I love the whole slam Twardo part above!!

I must step up here.... We really should have a rule against slamming Twardo... I mean, he's so frail at his age, we'll break him!

"frail", much like beef jerky is frail


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 2, 2010, 8:54 AM
Post #211 of 294 (1052 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

> If a fun jumper is so easily distracted by something like a GoPro as to
>do the same thing they should absolutely never jump with one again.

If they do indeed ever do that, they are guaranteed to never jump with one again. Problem is you don't get a second chance.


ridestrong  (C 38471)

Jul 2, 2010, 9:52 AM
Post #212 of 294 (1029 views)
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Re: [Heatmiser] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
High man is the one that continues to track away and opens lower. Wink


I agree...

In DSE's statement he says, "The relative worker who was nearly hit had no idea another person was that close until he heard a canopy opening just below and to his side."

I know the camera guy was in the wrong. All I'm saying is regardless of being high, low or otherwise every jumper should be as aware of their own airspace as possible at pull time.

I did say that the high guy may want to consider a quick pitch, I see the flaws in that statement... and agree with you that it would be better to track for separation.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jul 2, 2010, 11:05 AM
Post #213 of 294 (1008 views)
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Re: [ridestrong] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
High man is the one that continues to track away and opens lower. Wink


I agree...

In DSE's statement he says, "The relative worker who was nearly hit had no idea another person was that close until he heard a canopy opening just below and to his side."

I know the camera guy was in the wrong. All I'm saying is regardless of being high, low or otherwise every jumper should be as aware of their own airspace as possible at pull time.

I did say that the high guy may want to consider a quick pitch, I see the flaws in that statement... and agree with you that it would be better to track for separation.

Now you're contradicting your previous post (which is good, it means maybe you did learn something).

"camera guy" (who was actually freeflying, using the camera to film his heading), wasn't tracking. Beginning freeflyers often slide all around the sky ergo; "tracking." He was asked to wait 7-10 seconds. Video shows he waited 4.

The "RW" guy was on a rating evaluation skydive. He did everything (including tracking in the correct direction) correctly in the skydive. There is no possible way he could have "cleared his airspace" as you said was our problem.


porpoishead  (B 30018)

Jul 2, 2010, 1:41 PM
Post #214 of 294 (965 views)
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Re: [JimGoFast] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Until USPA comes out and says "No Camera flight until minimum 200 Jumps", then it will be nothing more than opinions and there are so many sides to support both pro and con for waiting or not waiting. I liken this to the the Wingsuit flight recommendation.

so many sides?? WTF does that mean??how many sides are there exactly?? you either agree or disagree sounds like one or the other......waiting or not waiting....uh that sounds like two sides.....thats sooo many i had to take my shoes off to countTongue

and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazzards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

anybody???? bueller???


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 2, 2010, 2:39 PM
Post #215 of 294 (947 views)
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Re: [porpoishead] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minimum recommendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

That one's simple....ya get some really cool HERO videos that you can show all the kids on the bus, and maybe get laid! Tongue


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 2, 2010, 2:46 PM
Post #216 of 294 (941 views)
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Re: [porpoishead] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

>and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation . . .

Nothing to post on Youtube. Without video you might as well not exist on-line.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 2, 2010, 2:47 PM
Post #217 of 294 (941 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That one's simple....ya get some really cool HERO videos that you can show all the kids on the bus, and maybe get laid! Tongue

We've all done stupid stuff to get laid (atleast the guys here).

You gotta ask yourself something, is the juice worth the squeeze?


porpoishead  (B 30018)

Jul 2, 2010, 2:52 PM
Post #218 of 294 (938 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

stylin!!! i love getting laid ...i might just go get one of those go-stupids and hang it off my nuts like a disco ball whilst getting laid....would provide much more entertaining footage im sure


JimGoFast  (A 57669)

Jul 2, 2010, 3:11 PM
Post #219 of 294 (925 views)
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Re: [porpoishead] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Until USPA comes out and says "No Camera flight until minimum 200 Jumps", then it will be nothing more than opinions and there are so many sides to support both pro and con for waiting or not waiting. I liken this to the the Wingsuit flight recommendation.

so many sides?? WTF does that mean??how many sides are there exactly?? you either agree or disagree sounds like one or the other......waiting or not waiting....uh that sounds like two sides.....thats sooo many i had to take my shoes off to countTongue

and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazzards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

anybody???? bueller???

Yeah that does read lame...I meant to say there are so many points to support both pros and cons...


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jul 2, 2010, 3:18 PM
Post #220 of 294 (920 views)
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Re: [JimGoFast] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

...and what exactly are the pros for not waiting until a minumum recomendation to ensure you are familiar with your life saving equipment before introducing other potential hazzards......especially a fucking goofy ass camera

anybody???? bueller???

Yeah that does read lame...I meant to say there are so many points to support both pros and cons...
What exactly are the arguments for ignoring the recommendations?

And who, besides those who wish to ignore them, are making those points?


porpoishead  (B 30018)

Jul 2, 2010, 3:23 PM
Post #221 of 294 (923 views)
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Re: [JimGoFast] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

fair enough bud

so like joe said whats the pros for disregarding a recommendation to have a bit of experience with your basic equipment before introducing other potential hazzards

that reads kinda lame too....im just saying


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 2, 2010, 4:05 PM
Post #222 of 294 (903 views)
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Re: [porpoishead] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
stylin!!! i love getting laid ...i might just go get one of those go-stupids and hang it off my nuts like a disco ball whilst getting laid....would provide much more entertaining footage im sure

Don't do it...I don't wanna see ya 'Go In'! AngelicTongue


porpoishead  (B 30018)

Jul 2, 2010, 4:15 PM
Post #223 of 294 (893 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
stylin!!! i love getting laid ...i might just go get one of those go-stupids and hang it off my nuts like a disco ball whilst getting laid....would provide much more entertaining footage im sure

Don't do it...I don't wanna see ya 'Go In'! AngelicTongue

thats some bullshit!! why you cockblocking T ?? Mad

Laugh


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jul 6, 2010, 10:42 AM
Post #224 of 294 (774 views)
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Re: [JimGoFast] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

And yet another incident over the weekend involving a small format camera and a low time jumper.
Keep those stories comin' folks.
JimGoFast; I'm curious which instructors at your DZ are saying you're good with jumping a camera?


Anvilbrother  (C License)

Jul 6, 2010, 12:44 PM
Post #225 of 294 (722 views)
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Re: [DSE] Go Pro- Is it a Camera or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you ruling out the fact that..

A: Shit does happen, and has always been happening to these jumpers in the 1-200 jump range regardless of a camera?

B: The camera played a direct role in what happened and would absolutely not have happened if the camera was not present?

Just because a teen gets in a car wreck does not mean a cell phone caused ALL the wrecks happening to teens because one just happened to be in the car at that time, teens have been getting in car wrecks for years.....BUT factors in some no argument there

I'm not pushing for anyone jumping a camera before 200. I just know you seem to be heading the torch and pitchfork mob. Just wondering how you are analyzing things and if you are padding the "incident list" because you feel so strongly about the subject.

Just don't want everyone who gets a stubbed toe, or anything that could have happened to anyone getting on your "camera list" when it would have happened to anyone regardless if a camera was strapped to their head or not.

I'm all for safety(part of my job in the fire service) and don't want to see ANYONE on ANY "list", so I agree with the cause, but would hate to see fake inflated reports.


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