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Stilleto as a Student Canopy

 

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Poll: Stilleto as a Student Canopy
A lightly loaded stiletto is acceptable 32 / 7%
A 1:1 loaded stiletto is acceptable 12 / 3%
A stiletto is NEVER an acceptable student canopy 387 / 90%
431 total votes
 
d123  (B 6134)

Jun 13, 2010, 9:53 AM
Post #226 of 397 (1369 views)
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     Re: [kallend] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Do you think that this chatting loop that we see here is fuel by the fact that nobody here wants to respect someone who's crying for respect?

It seems that nobody here has observed his canopy flying either.
Maybe he should let his flying do the talking Smile


kallend  (D 23151)

Jun 13, 2010, 11:34 AM
Post #227 of 397 (1340 views)
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     Re: [d123] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Do you think that this chatting loop that we see here is fuel by the fact that nobody here wants to respect someone who's crying for respect?

It seems that nobody here has observed his canopy flying either.
Maybe he should let his flying do the talking Smile

Yep.


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jun 13, 2010, 12:35 PM
Post #228 of 397 (1330 views)
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     Re: [bdb2004] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
I only have 125 jumps, and as we all know that is nothing.

I've never posted here, but dude, I just have to respond at this point. I jump at the same dropzone as davelepka, He knows what he is talking about. You should listen to him.

But that's not why I'm responding. I'm responding because of an experience I had yesterday. On my 75th jump, I was using a rental 220 Manta because my Sabre2 190 (1.0 loading) was having a reserve repack. On final, for some stupid reason, I flared a bit high. For some even stupider reason, I let up on the toggles. I let out an "oh shit" that my girlfriend heard from the picnic bench and PLF'ed the shit out of the landing.

I haven't flared high like that since I was on student status. Thankfully I was under the 220 Manta. It might not have been so pretty under my Sabre2 190.

And imagine what it might have looked like under a Stiletto 190....Or are you 100% confident that you would NEVER make that mistake?
The problem is that he is 100% certain. Mistakes aren't just made by 100 jump wonders. We all make mistakes, but with 1000 jumps you figure out that you've made a mistake a lot faster. It doesn't mean you won't get hurt or killed, just give you a little better odds.
Nice post, but the one who needs to read it probably won't, or if he does will look at it as proof that his "mad skilz" ARE much better than yours.


(This post was edited by ufk22 on Jun 13, 2010, 12:36 PM)


kellja2001  (C 107711)

Jun 13, 2010, 5:22 PM
Post #229 of 397 (1277 views)
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     Re: [bdb2004] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
On my 75th jump, I was using a rental 220 Manta because my Sabre2 190 (1.0 loading) was having a reserve repack. On final, for some stupid reason, I flared a bit high. For some even stupider reason, I let up on the toggles. I let out an "oh shit" that my girlfriend heard from the picnic bench and PLF'ed the shit out of the landing.

I haven't flared high like that since I was on student status. Thankfully I was under the 220 Manta. It might not have been so pretty under my Sabre2 190.

Sorry, hate to interject, but I thought the Manta only came in a 290?

I know this isn't the main point of your story - but if I'm correct, it does question the facts you're presenting (!)

If I'm wrong, please, its possible* I've made a mistake, let me know!

(Perhaps you mean a Raider 220, the same model as the Manta (Flight Concept's 9-Cell) but in the 220 size?)

* Read as: More than likely Tongue


(This post was edited by kellja2001 on Jun 13, 2010, 5:31 PM)


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jun 13, 2010, 5:45 PM
Post #230 of 397 (1263 views)
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     Re: [kellja2001] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

ZP Mantas apparently come in various sizes. If you look around on the site, the F-111 canopies have different names for the different sizes, Manta being the 290 and Raider being the 220.

So you are right, but it is still possible for him to have been on a 220 (ZP) Manta.


kellja2001  (C 107711)

Jun 14, 2010, 2:45 AM
Post #231 of 397 (1198 views)
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     Re: [wolfriverjoe] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Aha!

That makes sense then Tongue

I'll back slowly out of this conversation then Laugh


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Jun 15, 2010, 12:39 AM
Post #232 of 397 (1115 views)
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     Re: [kellja2001] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Dynamic stall- umm get a dictionary look up dynamic then you might know what I mean.

You keep saying Mad Skillz. I have never ONCE made the comment that I (or anyone else) has mad skills. Not sure why this keeps being brought up but spare me it is getting old.

As far as the the canopoy's (Storm, Spectre, and Pulse) I have jumped them all in my search for the canopy I wanted to purchase. 12 to 20 jumps on each does make me justified to speak of their GENERAL characteristics. Never claimed to be ANY knid of expert.

I really am not looking for approval from any of you super dorkzone posters okay. I know, I know, I have some bad ass major attitude! Look I don't care bitch and moan, cry, throw a fit, I don't freaking care. Scream about my ego, and how I will bounce or and ash dive blah blah blah.

Oh yeah and keep posting about how I should shut up and just get off this thread.....it has seemed to work so far right? Nope so how about you just stop freaking reading my posts!

Bottom line is I learned some very valuable lessons in my search for a canopy. I demoed a lot, on more forgiving ones. I made a low turn. I didn't make it back to the DZ. I have been in some "panic" situations. I may only have 125 jumps but unlike many people I don't need multiple mistakes to learn a lesson either. One time each has been enough.

I realize many of you think that comes off as some "100 jump wonder" who thinks he is hot shit and thinks he is better than he is. Fine. Leave it alone. I know that is not me. You don't know me either. No matter how much you pretend to. Anyone who has been in this sport long enough has seen people die. People they care about usually. It is a sad fact. My advice is to please come off as someone who is actually concerned about another jumper instead of attacking someone who is actually saying some logical things.

Oh yeah and everything I have posted has been MY experience, not something else I have and passed off as my own as some asshole said. Look wouldn't I have just gone on an said I knew the Silhouette as well then?

Bottom line a Stiletto 190 at 1 to 1 IS the most forgiving than you can get as far a ellipticals go. Hell you can't even buy a larger elliptical. I have never downsized. Not once. You want jumpers to have hundreds and hundreds of jumps, downsize along the way of course, and then all the sudden go to an elliptical? Good for you. I disagree, but I know I don't know anything after all right? I would rather learn an elliptical now, on my current size and light wingloading and without downsizing, then gamble with it later on a higher WL after developing bad habits on a square that I have got away with.

Again wasting my time. None of you want to actually debate characteristics of the canopy in that SIZE and WL.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Jun 15, 2010, 12:51 AM
Post #233 of 397 (1113 views)
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     Re: [ufk22] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Ufk22

Sorry forgot to respond to you in my post.

I have made that mistake, I learned from it. I try my best to not do it again, and haven't so far.

That being said I have flared imperfectly (many times) on my Stiletto 190 and I haven't gotten hurt, bounced, and certainly no one has had an ash dive for me yet.

Chill bro it is not an attack against Dave the local skygod at your DZ. It is a debate. If you "grow up" in the sport hearing something, like no ellipticals under 300 jumps (no matter the WL and size) then you will believe it whole heartedly. I just challenge that, and despite my limited experience I have found that a 190 Stiletto at a 1 to 1 is a great mixture for learning bad deployment position, harness input, riser input, etc. and yet be forgiving enough to not require a cutaway because I dipped a shoulder etc. I know it has taught me a ton. Like I have said from the beginning though it is DEFINITELY not for everyone.


scratch69  (F 1)

Jun 15, 2010, 5:08 AM
Post #234 of 397 (1092 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Like I have said from the beginning though it is DEFINITELY not for everyone.

You were doing so good for a while there and then THIS. This is why you are being called a 100-jump-wonder. This is why even though you think you know what you are talking about, you really have NO idea. If the canopy is DEFINITELY not for everyone, how do you propose we go about deciding who these "elite" quick learning jumpers are ? Roll the dice? Perhaps the stars and planets have the answers? Have you spoken to your local psychic ?

FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME, the blanket rules are in place for a REASON. So that inexperienced dumbasses STOP giving this sport a bad name by smashing in on canopies that they had no business being on. Read the incidents forum, there's a freshly smashed noob sitting in a hospital bed that would love to tell you his story. He too was awesome like you and on large canopy that couldn't possibly hurt him. Bottom line dude, you're an idiot.

I challenge you. If you survive in this sport long enough to reach 500 jumps (its a stretch, I know), then I challenge you to come back to this thread and give it a "BUMP" to the top. We'll all come back and re-read what a DUMBASS you sound like and by then, you should have just reached the point in this sport where you realize you know absolutely NOTHING.


Ron

Jun 15, 2010, 7:33 AM
Post #235 of 397 (1057 views)
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     Re: [scratch69] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Quote:
I challenge you. If you survive in this sport long enough to reach 500 jumps (its a stretch, I know), then I challenge you to come back to this thread and give it a "BUMP" to the top. We'll all come back and re-read what a DUMBASS you sound like and by then, you should have just reached the point in this sport where you realize you know absolutely NOTHING.

I have had many people in my 16 years in this sport come to me later and apologize for being a dooffus. Almost everyone thought they were above average and the rules should not apply to them. Some got hurt, some saw someone get hurt, others just dropped the ego and realized that no one is after them.

I saved some of the PM's and emails.... Funny to read years later when another guy goes off and claims I have no idea what I am talking about.

I just think.... Here we go AGAIN Laugh


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Jun 15, 2010, 7:49 AM
Post #236 of 397 (1051 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I really am not looking for approval from any of you super dorkzone posters okay.

Then why do you keep coming back here justifying, rationalizing and trying to defend your choice?

If you're not looking for approval, why are you here and not out jumping?

Crazy


d123  (B 6134)

Jun 15, 2010, 8:41 AM
Post #237 of 397 (1032 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

> Hell you can't even buy a larger elliptical.
Hell But forget about them BIG, they don't surf as stiletto do. PD believed in you BIG! I believe in you! Don't forget the swooping had begone the fuck away ... sorry ... swooping began with a stiletto and someone who believed he can do something with that stiletto, yo! Do you believe in yourself?Angelic

Stiletto zzzeeeee weeeee zooom Go for it BIG!


(This post was edited by d123 on Jun 15, 2010, 8:49 AM)


d123  (B 6134)

Jun 15, 2010, 9:00 AM
Post #238 of 397 (1022 views)
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     Re: [d123] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Just to clear my intentions: When you invested the time to search and resurect this thread, subconsciously you were looking for something. That something is my prev post, so forget about the other old geezers talking about weird stuff like safety, recommendations and things like that. If they really want safety they should stay on the ground with their grandmothers. I know that I seem to say different things to them but that's only to make them feel good about themselves. I'm on your side BIG. Hook it BIG! I believe in you and the message that you're reading right now is what you have been searching for in this thread. You've invested personal time to find this message and now you've found it BIG!


(This post was edited by d123 on Jun 15, 2010, 9:01 AM)


artard  (B License)

Jun 15, 2010, 10:24 AM
Post #239 of 397 (999 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

This dude is either a troll or a fucking idiot why are people still responding to him


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Jun 15, 2010, 10:59 AM
Post #240 of 397 (977 views)
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     Re: [artard] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
This dude is either a troll or a fucking idiot why are people still responding to him

Because maybe there's a new guy out there reading this and thinking "Hey, if he can do it, then so can I!"

Hopefully, reading all the folks saying how bad of an idea it is (and also noting the experience level of those saying it) will give them pause. Hopefully.


artard  (B License)

Jun 15, 2010, 11:11 AM
Post #241 of 397 (973 views)
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     Re: [wolfriverjoe] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Sure, it serves as a good lesson to newer jumpers but after davelepka's excellent post I think basically everything that needs to be said about EFS4LIFE has been said


Sangi

Jun 15, 2010, 11:28 AM
Post #242 of 397 (954 views)
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     Re: [scratch69] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
you're an idiot.

Aaaaaand here we go. The classic dorkzone line Laugh


d123  (B 6134)

Jun 15, 2010, 11:45 AM
Post #243 of 397 (942 views)
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     Re: [artard] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

> This dude is either a troll or a fucking idiot why are people still responding to him

At work, bored, nothing good on the TV. You know, the usual reasons.

I've made 3 good jumps sunday. one 3 way FF back and sit. I've actually succeeded to do a sit fly exit out of navajo. I've played more with docs from sit (not there yet). We've open high and we got close under parachutes (I love that, I could play for hours and hours) nothing radical just geeking at eachother, looking at the beautifull sky and having fun while getting high on life. Last jump hop and pop from cessna and I've landed in a light downwind to have a long flare. Don't know who you are but for me it makes my day and it last for few days. When I talk about it I re-love/live it Smile Ooops I've just got high again Tongue

Edit to add: Ahh Yeah, I've forget to tell you. We've finish the day with longboard slides downhill. One of our riggers is an ex longboard champion and he's teaching us cool stuff. I love this DZ.


(This post was edited by d123 on Jun 15, 2010, 11:52 AM)


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Jun 15, 2010, 6:29 PM
Post #244 of 397 (887 views)
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     Re: [d123] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Ya I am a troll and an idiot too. LMAO do you think I actually care what someone who has never met me types about me on the internet? That is what is wrong with this sport now. Gone are the days of sitting around the bonfire shooting the shit where you actually have to look in someone's face to say what you want to say. The internet has made it easy for people to say shit they normally wouldn't without having to fear the consequences. Bravo internet tough guys, know it alls, and hot shots! I salute you.

Now from PD's website:

“Elliptical” canopies are usually much more responsive than other types. They turn faster, and
generally require less input to start a turn. An elliptical canopy, particularly a smaller one, may react to
harness inputs in ways a rectangular canopy will not. You may be able to make a surprisingly fast turn
just by shifting your weight.
Elliptical canopies can be exciting to fly, but they can also be unforgiving in some ways. For
example, many skydivers unintentionally shift their weight or pull their toggles unevenly when they flare,
causing the canopy to turn slightly as they land. On an elliptical canopy this can result in a rather
spectacular wipeout.
Because elliptical canopies are more responsive in flight, they are also more responsive while
they are opening. To avoid problems such as off-heading openings and line twists, you may need to pack
more carefully and pay more attention to your body position during deployment. People with hundreds or
even thousands of jumps on less responsive canopies have needed to make a few adjustments, and get
rid of some bad habits, once they started jumping elliptical canopies.
Because they can be less forgiving in some ways, elliptical canopies have generally been viewed
as “hot rods” only suitable for more experienced, aggressive canopy pilots. Some people believe that
elliptical canopies are faster than rectangular ones. This is a misconception, however, similar to the idea
that zero-p canopies are faster than F-111 ones. An elliptical canopy may turn faster than a rectangular
one of the same size, but might still fly at about the same forward speed.
It’s important to remember that a canopy’s size also determines how responsive it is, and how
unforgiving it may be. Many people who jump larger elliptical canopies experience few if any of the
problems encountered on small ones.
It is a good idea to gain some experience before flying an elliptical canopy, but you don’t
necessarily need to be a hot shot. If other canopies aren’t quite as responsive as you would like, and you
are thinking about downsizing, you may first want to try an elliptical canopy the same size as your current
canopy. An elliptical may provide the handling you want without the risks involved in jumping a smaller
canopy.

Hmmmmm. Sounds like what I am doing. Oh yeah I forgot PD doesn't know shit about the canopies they produce, and they just want to sell parachutes right? Lol whatever.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Jun 15, 2010, 7:06 PM
Post #245 of 397 (873 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Quote:
If you're not looking for approval, why are you here and not out jumping?

The weather here is shit right now. What's your excuse?


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Jun 16, 2010, 12:51 AM
Post #246 of 397 (833 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hmmmmm. Sounds like what I am doing. Oh yeah I forgot PD doesn't know shit about the canopies they produce, and they just want to sell parachutes right? Lol whatever.

If you really believe that, ring up PD, tell them your experience level, and see if they'll sell you a Stiletto 190.


Ron

Jun 16, 2010, 4:51 AM
Post #247 of 397 (808 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Oh the irony:
Quote:
The internet has made it easy for people to say shit they normally wouldn't without having to fear the consequences. Bravo internet tough guys, know it alls, and hot shots! I salute you.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Jun 16, 2010, 5:00 AM
Post #248 of 397 (803 views)
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     Re: [Joellercoaster] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Joellercoaster. I did How do you think I have been demoing a Stiletto 190? Have you actually read through the thread? I have said I did before. Stop being a moron.


scratch69  (F 1)

Jun 16, 2010, 5:05 AM
Post #249 of 397 (800 views)
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     Re: [EFS4LIFE] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Maybe you should tell us where you jump so we can tell you in person what a moron you sound like. I'd like to hear from someone at your dz as well. It would be nice to get an understanding of who's the real internet tough guy because you probably don't talk like that at the dz.

I stand by my challenge, in a few years, when you have 500+ jumps, I'll meet you back here for some good ol' fashioned "crow-eating".


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Jun 16, 2010, 5:07 AM
Post #250 of 397 (798 views)
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     Re: [Ron] Stilleto as a Student Canopy [In reply to]  

Quote:
Oh the irony:

The irony is you just want to say my decision is bad without actually explaining why other than I don't have the experience. Basically "I have this much, and you have this much" is all you keep saying. You don't want to debate how a 190 at a 1 to 1 actually performs. You assume to know me. You assume I am some hot shot who is going to get himself hurt without actually knowing anything about me. You have assumed a lot. I have assumed nothing. You have heard what assuming does right?


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