Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana

 

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Brumby  (C 104799)

Jan 30, 2011, 2:29 PM
Post #51 of 79 (2637 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

That something that we used to do to old worn out large sized Sabre1s. Really, though, I wouldn't do that to a Katana, that's a quick way to end up on your back spinning towards earth. Every Katana I've jumped I packed neatly and with a normal pro-pack. Every Katana I've jumped has opened very nicely that way.

Ive packed many many many Katanas and up untill about 6 months ago had never jumped 1. i do think though that depending on how they are loaded depends on many different aspects......e.g lightly load it and they are forgiving, bulk it up and they twitch like hell. trick is tho, dont look and dont touch and u wont get wrong. sounds like a relationship but it works


Wesly.VG  (D License)

Feb 11, 2011, 7:20 AM
Post #52 of 79 (2501 views)
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Re: [Brumby] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

The Belgian Hayabusa's are all jumping the Neos. They used to jump Velocity. Since i know them well i asked them how they think about the Neos. They all love the Neos. In the beginning 2 of them had sometimes trouble with hard openings but this disappeared. Performance is between Katana and Velocity.

A friend of mine jumps Velocity Comp. and a Neos.
Velocity for swooping competition and Neos when he is doing other stuff. He also likes the Neos.. Great performance and perfect openings.

Then hearing about this great Neos, i got myself a demo (89). Did 50 hop 'n pops and about 10 terminal jumps on it.. From the first jump i knew this was the canopy i want to be jumping forever :-) I never had one bad opening, always on heading an what a performance! I would do wingsuit jumps with this canopy, for which i can't say about my katana..

Just this week i ordered myself a brand new Neos 94 and i can't wait to get it.


Marc84

Feb 11, 2011, 11:02 AM
Post #53 of 79 (2471 views)
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Re: [rhys] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Then get a JVX.

You will find the openings much nicer than a crossfire2 of that size loaded like that, you'll find the slider on a small crossfire is also quite small, while the slider on a JXV of the same size will be almost as big as a tandem slider.

They open marvelously, my slider is 60cm x 90cm. My wife has a crossfire2 89, it opens brisk with me on it loading it at 2.2 and the slider is quite small (too small imho).

Something to think about.

I have had 3 JVX's and my most recent (a 79) has the largest slider of them all.

My JVX 72 Opened so hard!!! I would strongly recommend not getting that canopy... Since my JVX 72 opened so hard i bought a 74 Neos for non-competition jumping... The Neos is a very nice opening canopy... the The Belgian team Hayabusa is using them and enjoying them...


HALO1  (D License)

Feb 11, 2011, 4:51 PM
Post #54 of 79 (2426 views)
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Re: [Wesly.VG] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok… My $0.02 on Neos. I have a new Neos, amongst my other Icarus canopies, and am having one HELL of a problem resolving hard opening issues. It’s bad enough that I’m “testing” custom slider configurations (through Icarus) to stop the “slammers”. I won’t go into details about everything we’ve done to try and resolve the issue before trying custom sliders, but suffice it to say, everything has been considered/tried… even down to videoing body position. Up to now, nothing has helping and am on the verge of returning for refund.

Like Wesly, I too demoed the shit out of a Neos and was thoroughly impressed. So impressed I ordered one. The demo had XF2 like openings, excellent riser pressure, nice recovery arc, incredible flare power, long beautiful swoops, etc.

Recognizing that every now and then a subpar canopy does get manufactured and sold (even Velo’s!!), I think the Neos is a great all around, everyday canopy to include fulltime camera work. Although I personally wouldn’t use for wingsuiting.

As a side note… had the JFX been available, I would have seriously considered that (after demoing) in lieu of Neos. Yeah I know… Two different companies.

Cheers.

BTW: PM me if you’ve solved a HARD opening Neos issue. Would love your input.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Feb 12, 2011, 4:27 AM
Post #55 of 79 (2384 views)
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Re: [Marc84] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

I find my jvx opening to be soft as crossfire.
What year is your jvx 72 made????
Everyone i know with one raves about its opening.


bofh  (D 13995)

Feb 13, 2011, 11:52 AM
Post #56 of 79 (2323 views)
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Re: [HALO1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Recognizing that every now and then a subpar canopy does get manufactured and sold (even Velo’s!!), I think the Neos is a great all around, everyday canopy to include fulltime camera work.

I think it is more than just some subpar canopies.

I have only met four persons that have gotten Neoses and all four of them have returned them because of the hard openings. They all opened great in the beginning (my best opening ever was on one of those Neoses) but after a while they started to open hard. One injured his neck, another broke some ribs (after gotten it back from the company where they had inspected it and found no problems...).

A while a go I got a PM from someone that had altered the length of the steering line and thus gotten it to open great again, but my friends just exchanged their Neos against crossfires instead.


rhys  (D 95)

Feb 13, 2011, 12:37 PM
Post #57 of 79 (2311 views)
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Re: [Marc84] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My JVX 72 Opened so hard!!! I would strongly recommend not getting that canopy... Since my JVX 72 opened so hard i bought a 74 Neos for non-competition jumping... The Neos is a very nice opening canopy... the The Belgian team Hayabusa is using them and enjoying them...

Then there was either something wrong with the canopies construction or the way it was packed.

If you had extremely hard openings and failed to contact the manufacturer and simply changed/downgraded to a neos... then your loss.

I know plenty of peope tht us a JVX for everyday jumping, beautiful openings with camera gear etc. etc.

Parachutes are made by hand and packed by hand.

I have heard the same about Neos' as well, in fact a workmate of mine had to take time off from constistantly hard Neos openings, while other neos open great...

Hard openings can be caused by different factors but if a JVX is opening hard consistantly, then it should be sent beck to the manufacturer for analysis.

Did you contact aerosports about it?


(This post was edited by rhys on Feb 13, 2011, 5:15 PM)


flatout

Mar 14, 2011, 3:28 AM
Post #58 of 79 (2124 views)
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Re: [rhys] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Having had a rocky beginning at the start of my relationship with a NEOS109, I am now ready to give the vows…..

Having received the canopy, I did suffer some cracking opening-explosions with corresponding visuals (STARS everywhere….), however I loved the flight characteristics so much, that I tried different packing methods to avoid the opening shock. Having done some 60-70 odd jumps on this wing, I am now fairly confident, that figured- out the important tricks and constant soft, on-heading openings over the last 30 jumps or so, seem to proof me right.
1) Very important, when packing the canopy, try to fold the Slider-triangle more on the canopy tail-end of the pack-job, not towards the nose section. My theory is, that the big slider burbles the nose section of the canopy when it opens, thereby provoking a sudden inflation, when the slider moves down.
2) Very, very important is to close the top-sheet of the canopy over the slider grommets!!! If you can see any metal or indeed a small piece of slider-fabric when placing the canopy into the d-bag, your in for a knock out opening!!! Also, close the top-sheet with at least four twists over the slider grommets, the better you close the top sheet, the less likely you’ll have a hard opening.

Paying attention to these two points helped me to finally be a fully-satisfied NEOS-flyer!


Premier grosfion  (D 24738)
Moderator
Mar 14, 2011, 7:52 AM
Post #59 of 79 (2084 views)
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Re: [flatout] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Was trying that Neos as well and after 8 jumps seeing stars after opening, gave up. It is flying great but did not have the patience to find out the proper packing technique.

Glad that it works for you, it is really fun to fly.

blues,
Marcus


Nukrites  (D 30239)

Mar 14, 2011, 9:48 AM
Post #60 of 79 (2059 views)
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Re: [flatout] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

I own Neos-94 loading 2.26, have ~400 jumps on it, had couple hard openings at first, no real trick in packing it, I make sure that slider quatert and is pulled out little, like an inch or 2 forward, I deploy in a track with no problem :) On heading, soft openings always


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 14, 2011, 10:03 AM
Post #61 of 79 (2052 views)
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Re: [piisfish] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the closest to the Stiletto in flying would be, in my opinion and given the selection of canopies, the Crossfire.

I agree with that, but the OP didn't say what he was looking for.

The post can't be replied to really without his goals in mind - the Stiletto and the Katana have very different flight design priorities as far as I can tell. they are both great for what they are designed for, but they have really different missions, IMO.


flatout

Mar 14, 2011, 11:17 PM
Post #62 of 79 (1982 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

just to proove a point, nothin wrong with the openings here
Attachments: neos_opening.jpg (288 KB)


groundrush87  (D 31095)

Mar 15, 2011, 4:02 AM
Post #63 of 79 (1951 views)
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Re: [flatout] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Same great openings here. Split rolled nose and put in center cell like someone previously mentioned for the sabre gives a reaallyy long snivel. Thinking about trying it without.
Attachments: IMG_9152.JPG (29.4 KB)
  IMG_9412.JPG (47.9 KB)


groundrush87  (D 31095)

Mar 15, 2011, 6:33 PM
Post #64 of 79 (1849 views)
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Re: [groundrush87] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

I meant to say I get great,,, but really long/soft openings on mine by split rolling the nose into the center cell as a previous poster mentioned for old sabres. You all might try it out if you wish, i think it works well and causes the canopy to have only one way of pressurizing, which is from the center out. Here is a youtube link explaining what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b049yxyUlUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_83SvolUEg

Try those vids out. Put a couple of jumps on your neos' after packing that way and see what you think.


HALO1  (D License)

Mar 17, 2011, 4:35 PM
Post #65 of 79 (1778 views)
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Re: [flatout] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Flatout - Glad to hear your Neos is working out. I finally had to return mine to Icarus (Cisma). I will agree with the rest of the comments here... Once open it's a fantastic canopy.

Something else strikes me as well... I would think the shear number of hard opening reports would prompt Icarus and/or Cisma to take a really hard look at this wing.

Switching to the JFX... where Cisma is NOT involved.


flatout

Mar 18, 2011, 3:16 AM
Post #66 of 79 (1741 views)
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Re: [HALO1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that the manufacturer has re-sized the slider a couple of years ago in order to prevent those opening-bombs (the slider is HUGE).

Judging from all the comments though, it didn't seem provide a "fool-proove" solution!

Is that also the reason why that canopy is not promoted by Icarus more laudly ?? But then again, why would a manufacturer want a "semi-faulty" canopy in thier product line. I am sure that Icarus is convinced that this wing works perfectly, otherwise it'll be reckless on their part.

Would be nice to hear an Icarus statement about this whole thing......


daleskydive  (E License)

Apr 26, 2012, 11:09 PM
Post #67 of 79 (1389 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

How about a JFX or Xaos. I have not jumped either but hear they open nice and soft


aaroncosbey  (C 108444)

May 3, 2012, 7:41 AM
Post #68 of 79 (1189 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

You cant pack the NEOS like a X-fire - however if you pack like this:

http://www.youtube.com/...CAieIitziofyM9kWpmEA

It will open soft and on-heading everytime.

I'd go with the NEOS over the Xfire and Kat everytime.

Smile


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 3, 2012, 9:54 AM
Post #69 of 79 (1149 views)
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Re: [aaroncosbey] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You cant pack the NEOS like a X-fire - however if you pack like this:

http://www.youtube.com/...CAieIitziofyM9kWpmEA

It will open soft and on-heading everytime.

I'd go with the NEOS over the Xfire and Kat everytime.

Smile
Is this rolling the nose BS never die? You got a device which controls the speed of opening. Why to fix something which is ain't broken? Why do you think that your roll has any effect in 100 mph wind?

I got a jump on Neos 104. I've packed like anything else. It opened soft and swiveled long.


mircan  (D 32291)

May 3, 2012, 11:07 AM
Post #70 of 79 (1142 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You cant pack the NEOS like a X-fire - however if you pack like this:

http://www.youtube.com/...CAieIitziofyM9kWpmEA

It will open soft and on-heading everytime.

I'd go with the NEOS over the Xfire and Kat everytime.

Smile
Is this rolling the nose BS never die? You got a device which controls the speed of opening. Why to fix something which is ain't broken? Why do you think that your roll has any effect in 100 mph wind?

I got a jump on Neos 104. I've packed like anything else. It opened soft and swiveled long.

Well, buddy of mine is considering every option after last weekend. It`s Neos 104 after line mod.

This is the video from last jump on Saturday.

And this is the video from last jump on Sunday Pirate

Maybe it`s not the canopy, but the packing...
OTOH, he DOES pack slow and takes his time, everytime.Unsure


aaroncosbey  (C 108444)

May 4, 2012, 2:31 AM
Post #71 of 79 (1082 views)
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Re: [mircan] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

HA! That sunday vid reminds me of the early days.

My NEOS was one of the 1st to get the line mod serial #20110001

Dont get me wrong - you can pack it normal and it might open nice/positive 10 times in a row - however it will bite you sooner or later.

I found ive you roll the nose and make sure the slider is quartered/and pulled forward a little (make it look like a girls front bottom upside down), the openings are long, on heading and consistant. Wink


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 4, 2012, 2:53 AM
Post #72 of 79 (1078 views)
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Re: [aaroncosbey] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I found ive you roll the nose and make sure the slider is quartered/and pulled forward a little (make it look like a girls front bottom upside down), the openings are long, on heading and consistant. Wink

Think. A hat would fly off your head even from a hop-and-pop jump. Why do you think your roll would stay intact in a 100 mph wind?

I don't mind if you even run 3 rounds around your rig clockwise if that gives you better opening.


5.samadhi

May 4, 2012, 3:32 AM
Post #73 of 79 (1075 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been told by some pretty experienced people that if you roll in and leave the center cell unrolled (assuming what we're talking about here) then the center cell inflates first and the pressure against the outer cells from the inflating center cell will hold the rolls in better allowing them not to catch air and rush the slider down.

You seem pretty dead set on believing your view though.


mircan  (D 32291)

May 4, 2012, 3:57 AM
Post #74 of 79 (1067 views)
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Re: [aaroncosbey] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Incosistency is the issue here. One time out of 10 you get slammer. Otherwise nice long openings.

I jumped that Neos myself couple of times, it`s real sweet canopy. Just those openings...

This makes me think it`s something about packing. We`ll see about that packing once my buddy fix his neck.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 4, 2012, 6:32 AM
Post #75 of 79 (1052 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You seem pretty dead set on believing your view though.

As long as you find good reasons for convincing me otherwise.

So what would keep your rolls intact? Specially on a long sniveling canopy?


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