Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana

 

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masterrigger1  (D 14167)

May 25, 2010, 10:18 AM
Post #26 of 79 (4947 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
O.K
Now a new factor to the equation:
what about the Xaos-21?

The Kaos 21 was included into my evaluation as well.

BS,
MEL


sparkie  (D License)

May 25, 2010, 11:32 AM
Post #27 of 79 (4921 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
I stuff the outer 4 cells on both sides into the center cell.

That something that we used to do to old worn out large sized Sabre1s. Really, though, I wouldn't do that to a Katana, that's a quick way to end up on your back spinning towards earth. Every Katana I've jumped I packed neatly and with a normal pro-pack. Every Katana I've jumped has opened very nicely that way.

If the OP wants another canopy, that's fine, but it makes me wonder if there is something wrong with the canopy he has that isn't specific to the model?

hmm, must be my kat is getting old then. sn 78 ;)


NeverTooLow

Jun 1, 2010, 4:59 AM
Post #28 of 79 (4648 views)
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Re: [sparkie] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Same with me, got about 900 jumps on different size Katanas (107 and 97) and had not one hard opening and only once a spinning mal.
Never try to correct the canopy during opening by pulling the risers or so, makes it only go bad.
Just let it go for a little off heading, you don`t use it for base jumping!?

Love to fly it, fits my flying way better than the crossfire.
No comments on neos, that I will be testing this season on a festival...


gilead1  (D 26)

Jun 1, 2010, 6:36 AM
Post #29 of 79 (4624 views)
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Re: [NeverTooLow] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Never try to correct the canopy during opening by pulling the risers or so, makes it only go bad.
Just let it go for a little off heading.

Well, I tried this technique for some time - didn't work for me Frown If Im not "steering" the opennig with the risers it will spin very bad, some times more then 360 and very violent,

any way - I think I'll try the FX or XAOS-21, laoded @ approx 1.9,


divegoddess  (C 32724)

Jun 1, 2010, 8:46 AM
Post #30 of 79 (4588 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Ive recently switched to a Katana wing. At first I felt the same way about the openings. I felt as though I was wrestling with the canopy for the entire deployment to keep it on a heading. I was also told not to try and steer through the opening....In general I think people tend to fear the unfamiliar. After almost 1000 jumps on a sabre 2 in the same size there was nothing about this canopy that was familiar.
After I put 20 or so jumps on the wing I found the openings to be nothing short of an unstoppable force of awesomeness....after 100 jumps on the wing I am finding that the more I fly it the more I just love this wing. It's very responsive to harness and toggles, light front riser pressure, a nice recovery arc.....I've not felt this connected to a wing in my short skydiving carreer so far.....I'm really glad I gave it a chance and didn't cast it aside thnking I hated the openings. I had alot of people tell me I'd hate them! BUT now that I've gotten a bit more comfortable on the wing my openings are soft and on heading.
I love my new Katana =)
BTW I do not do anything to the nose. I make sure the nose is flaked nealty and I open the center cell up to encourage the canopy to inflate from the center out...but I NEVER roll,tuck, or do any sort of shoving....let the nose do it's job...don't hide it from the relative wind.
with over 4000 jumps I am sure your body position is not the cause. You could just have an angry canopy.
if you feel it is the canopy call PD.


Jumpah  (D License)

Jun 1, 2010, 12:18 PM
Post #31 of 79 (4536 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm on a Katana 150 (1.6 loading), and love the openings. I don't do anyting special with the nose other than ensure it is neat, slider neatly quartered and against the grommets, and I double stow all lines except the center locking stow (habit...don't think this matters much). I use up rubber bands fast, fortunately the DZ I jump at gives them away to help with safety.

When I first jumped it I was using risers to fly on heading during deployment and got spun up badly once, and nearly a couple other times. Reading the Katana manual I found that PD has a recommendation here:

"...will get the best results by keeping your shoulders level as the deployment bag lifts off of your back and keeping your weight even in the harness until the slider comes down. "Steering" with the risers before the slider comes down or allowing your weight to shift excessively can actually cause or exaggerate off-heading openings"

The fact that i'm on a bigger canopy may be a key difference, tho the PD manual says nothing different about the Katana sizes and things like openings. The 150 has mesh along two sides of the slider which is not on the smaller sizes.

Hope it all works out


melushell  (D 28650)

Jun 2, 2010, 11:06 AM
Post #32 of 79 (4411 views)
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Re: [Jumpah] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

XF 119 - 500 jumps
XF 2 99 - 800 jumps
katana 97/120 - 12 jumps
Neos 84 - 1000 jumps

i can call myself an Icarus 'fan', and that is mainly because i am a p%^sy when it comes to openings and my back , and Icarus really knows how to treat this well

obviously from your selection XF will open the best, now you need to think about what you want from your canopy

i got a neos 84 more than a year ago, and man believe me that is a canopy i am not going to sell EVER!
amazing openings, super stable wing, long recovery arch and pretty good response on rear risers for getting you out of the corner
i do longer swoops with it than some guys with 'serious' crossbraced wings out there (but that is mainly for knowing the wing very well)

i consider this model to be the perferct workhor(s)e for a guy that does more than 1000 jumps a year on his own rig


katana? no thank you, is juts a mushroom with sharp name

where are you jumping? trying them is your best bet


(This post was edited by melushell on Jun 2, 2010, 11:08 AM)


gilead1  (D 26)

Jun 2, 2010, 12:25 PM
Post #33 of 79 (4382 views)
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Re: [melushell] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

first of all - I think you should update your profile (You have more jumps on the Neos than you have on the profile...) Wink

And now back to the subject -The main issue with the Neos is the inconsistent reports about the opening, some people say its grate but other say it is very bad (just like the reports about the Katana) I think i'll try the XAOS-21 or the JFX.

Thanks

p.s
I dont think there is a demo Neos canopy in Perris, if there is I'll try it for sure


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Jun 2, 2010, 1:21 PM
Post #34 of 79 (4366 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The main issue with the Neos is the inconsistent reports about the opening, some people say its grate but other say it is very bad (just like the reports about the Katana)

You're going to find people say bad things about just any canopy - likewise there will be those who say good things about the same canopy.

You really just need to demo all the different kinds, and see which one YOU like best. It's really just that simple.

Blues,
Ian


melushell  (D 28650)

Jun 2, 2010, 2:01 PM
Post #35 of 79 (4359 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
first of all - I think you should update your profile (You have more jumps on the Neos than you have on the profile...) Wink

nice, you got the most out of my post

back to the main subject
like i said you should definetly define what you want from the canopy in very clear terms

we are very lucky to live times were custom needs are an available option, just pay the price for it Smile


trigger  (D 101390)

Jun 2, 2010, 2:09 PM
Post #36 of 79 (4348 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Broken my back.. cf2 since 2003Wink
More info about JFX please, you never know one day, maybeWink


Pendragon  (D 104102)

Jun 7, 2010, 12:35 PM
Post #37 of 79 (4105 views)
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Re: [trigger] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
More info about JFX please, you never know one day, maybeWink

Your missus will never allow it! Anyway, you need to start jumping properly again. Tongue


trigger  (D 101390)

Jun 8, 2010, 10:52 AM
Post #38 of 79 (4014 views)
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Re: [Pendragon] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Anything useful to add.


sidarapr  (D 28481)

Jun 8, 2010, 2:33 PM
Post #39 of 79 (3984 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Katana 89 vs. CF2 92 demo 2006. I purchased the (used) Katana 89 from PD with brand new HMAs as I enjoyed the flight characteristics quite a bit more, being a more aggressive canopy with a longer recovery arc and greater speed range. Early on it was very easy to interpret and the learning curve was super short. I had previously owned a Cobalt 105 (~450 jumps). The openings were very good (relatively speaking) until about jump 60 then it started to get funky, shortly after every opening induced a line twist. After doing multiple hop-n-pops and video of the openings no one could see anything I was doing to create the issue. I cut away after a severe spinning-line twist. Immediately I sent it to PD, upon visual inspection they could not see anything evident. After jumping it PD understood my concern, keeping it for two weeks they determined an issue with the brake line(s) and that the slider was too small. PD fixed it, no charge other than shipping and it opened fantastic. Nothing out of the normal in packing it, just very relaxed in the harness on opening during its normal searching . I purchased another PD last year largely because of their commitment to quality and customer service. I would try another Katana if the interest is still there.
The CF2 opened nothing short of incredible. IMO it is the best all around canopy on the market. If I were flying camera this would certainly be my choice. It wanted to recover quicker than the Katana which you could seemingly hang onto the front risers all day long. Rear risers were solid with the Katanas being softer and requiring a bit more attention. I had requested a NEOS demo and was not provided an availability date. Called a few times after, in finally reaching someone the answer was much the same. Hence, when I purchased another canopy last year as mentioned I went with PD again. A guy at my DZ had been jumping CFs and moved to the NEOS and loved it (camera flyer).
If you want Velocity like speed then the Katana is it. If you want performance and incredible openings then its the CF2.
Hoped that helped a bit, Regards.


DocPop  (C License)

Jun 11, 2010, 8:54 AM
Post #40 of 79 (3862 views)
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Re: icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Is the Katana really a comparable canopy to the Neos? I would have thought that the Neos would be closer to a Velocity.

I am only basing this on the cross-bracing. I have not flown either wing, although I plan to move to a Katana after my Sabre2. I don't know very much about the Neos, but was wondering where it fits in.


tetra316  (D 26945)

Jun 11, 2010, 9:04 AM
Post #41 of 79 (3888 views)
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Re: [DocPop] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope you wait on the Katana until you have several hundred more jumps. The Katana is not an intermediate wing.


DocPop  (C License)

Jun 11, 2010, 9:05 AM
Post #42 of 79 (3887 views)
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Re: [tetra316] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Understood.


tetra316  (D 26945)

Jun 11, 2010, 9:09 AM
Post #43 of 79 (3885 views)
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Re: [DocPop] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Just checkingTongue


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

Jun 15, 2010, 5:28 PM
Post #44 of 79 (3712 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
hello

I upsized from Stellito 89 to Katana 97 (load at 1.8) and I'm very disappointed, especially from the opening. any way I'm trying to decide between the Crossfire 2 and the Neos,
any opinions to share?
What kind of line do you have? HMA 500 seems to give noticeably better openings on the KA. Don't cover the nose or shove it into the pack job, either, The canopy has a decent opening duration as is, so doing anything to slow it down will likely affect heading. I've got 400+ Katana openings/flights with a wingsuit without issue.

No Neos experience, but can tell you the Katana and Crossfire are basically in different classes from each other. Katana is a beast. Much faster and more aggressive flight than the Crossfire. Crossfire is the more well-rounded canopy. Katana (my preference) needs a bit more attention. Not quite Velocity, but close-ish.


(This post was edited by LetsGoOutside on Jun 15, 2010, 5:36 PM)


gilead1  (D 26)

Jun 16, 2010, 8:31 AM
Post #45 of 79 (3627 views)
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Re: [LetsGoOutside] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

well, this is exactly the way i pack it and yet i have mor then 50% of heading openings,

any way i'm thinking of change it to a XAOS-21 or FX\JFX,
going to jump the FX 94 this weekend Laugh


LetsGoOutside  (D License)

Jun 22, 2010, 2:44 PM
Post #46 of 79 (3493 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well, this is exactly the way i pack it and yet i have mor then 50% of heading openings,

any way i'm thinking of change it to a XAOS-21 or FX\JFX,
going to jump the FX 94 this weekend Laugh
Hmmm... might be worth sending to PD for inspection then. Even when my spectra was going out of trim (on HMA now) my off-heading rate was way less than that.

Have fun with the FX!


gilead1  (D 26)

Dec 30, 2010, 11:08 PM
Post #47 of 79 (2965 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Well,
since someone brought this post up I decided to share the outcome - XAOS-21 94 loaded @ 1.98.
Although I didn't think a crossbrace as an option I had to try it after this post and I must say that it is the sweetest canopy ever!!!

thanks you all for the inputs that helped me choose this canopy :)

Happy New Year


krisco  (C 3244)

Jan 22, 2011, 12:39 PM
Post #48 of 79 (2646 views)
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Re: [gilead1] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Good choice on the Xaos 21
I just got a 108 loaded at 2.2 and I love it!!
JFX is next on the list to try


killen1970

Jan 27, 2011, 2:21 PM
Post #49 of 79 (2502 views)
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Re: [SkymonkeyONE] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow Tony has always been a PD guy he might have been the first person I see jumping a velo. JFX sounds very interesting I put my velo in the closet got tired of opening fear 2 chops in 25 jumps. Of course probably all my fault.


In reply to:
Tony Uragallo (Tony Suits) jumps a new JFX and he said he really likes it. Almost all of his jumps are in a wingsuit nowadays by the way.


gilead1  (D 26)

Jan 27, 2011, 2:39 PM
Post #50 of 79 (2498 views)
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Re: [killen1970] icaros crossfire VS neos VS Katana [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wow Tony has always been a PD guy he might have been the first person I see jumping a velo. JFX sounds very interesting I put my velo in the closet got tired of opening fear 2 chops in 25 jumps. Of course probably all my fault.


Well, all I can tell you is that the Xaos 21 opening are the sweetest I ever have... Cant ask for better


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