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Skyhook ?

 

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beowulf  (C License)

Sep 29, 2009, 1:22 PM
Post #51 of 130 (1524 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting video, not sure what exactly happened there. It sure doesn't look like the Skyhook pulled the reserve. The more I watch the video the more I wonder if the lanyard was even hooked up to the riser.

I had a similar malfunction two weekends ago. Only I wasn't on my back when I cut away. I have a very new Vector Micron with a Skyhook in it. I had no line twists at all under my reserve.


(This post was edited by beowulf on Sep 29, 2009, 1:31 PM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 29, 2009, 1:57 PM
Post #52 of 130 (1501 views)
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Re: [hookitt] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Nah. It was clearly not attached. It was not direct bagged by the main. Line stretch occurred because the pilot chute did what it was supposed to. In that video, the skyhook did not do what it was designed to.

The line twists occurred because the bag was pulled off the jumpers back while his back was toward the earth.

Yup, take a look at the difference between the risers as the reserve slider is coming down.

Unstable deployment caused the line twists.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 29, 2009, 2:38 PM
Post #53 of 130 (1484 views)
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Re: [USPA] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Strange, the Skyhook didn't work in your case. The main is long gone, and the bag is still around the reserve. Also you can see the pilot is extracting the bag, not the main.

Furthermore at line stretch the twist isn't there yet, it is started after canopy deployment.

Lastly, you do not arch (seen by the image of your lower body) and yet you want to delay your reserve deployment, for what?

From what I understand on how the skyhook works. Is if there is more then 10 pounds of pressure it releases from the bridle.( not sure if thats the correct number or not. A rigger could answer it better) In my case thats what happened. From the spinning on my back. Skyhook released.

Thats why no RSL for me for now on. Cutaway roll over the deploy reserve.


beowulf  (C License)

Sep 29, 2009, 2:44 PM
Post #54 of 130 (1475 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In that case then the Skyhook did exactly what it should have done and disabled itself. You essentially had no RSL at all for that jump.
Or maybe I am reading this wrong?


(This post was edited by beowulf on Sep 29, 2009, 2:45 PM)


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 29, 2009, 2:45 PM
Post #55 of 130 (1471 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yea it did release but in the video on UPT's web site it shows someone on there back and it working. Take a look here
http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/...;id=85&Itemid=70

In my case it didnt. Dont get me wrong I think its great in some cases like this dumb ass here
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Sep 29, 2009, 2:46 PM)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:00 PM
Post #56 of 130 (1453 views)
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Re: [beowulf] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Interesting video, not sure what exactly happened there. It sure doesn't look like the Skyhook pulled the reserve. The more I watch the video the more I wonder if the lanyard was even hooked up to the riser.

The interpretation of the video is tough.
To deal with the sometimes awkward FLV format, I downloaded the video, converted it to another format, and viewed it frame by frame in Vegas.

Early on it isn't clear whether the Skyhook wasn't working at all, or perhaps it was working but only initially -- e.g., in some ways it appears at one point like the bridle goes up to a riser and then back out of sight to where the pilot chute would be, as in the attached screen grab.

The problem is that there is a lot of ghosting in the video, so one bridle often seems like two, presumably due to the de-interlacing done for the video on the web. Also, even in the attached photo, the main canopy and slider seem far away, and it isn't clear what is a riser and where the length of RSL to the Skyhook would be. One really has to look at other frames from the video.

Later, after the deployment sequence goes largely off screen and then back on, at that point the main seems far off and the pilot chute is seen pulling the freebag away.

In between the early and late parts of the deployment, there seems to be a lot of whipping of the reserve risers. That could be normal whipping around, as happens with lines before they are tensioned for a while. On the other hand, it also could point to a particular lack of tension between when the main canopy might be pulling the freebag, and when the p.c. is pulling the freebag.

So was the freebag detached from the main, what version of Skyhook was used, and was any of the red seal thread at the hook was still present, etc.??

I'm still really not sure what was going on in the video.


(This post was edited by pchapman on Sep 29, 2009, 3:02 PM)
Attachments: Clip0001.jpg (46.5 KB)


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:06 PM
Post #57 of 130 (1445 views)
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Post deleted by ozzy13 [In reply to]

 


USPA  (D 81812)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:13 PM
Post #58 of 130 (1430 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Next time, whatever system you have on your back, Arch before you release... (arching after release is too late)


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:34 PM
Post #59 of 130 (1411 views)
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Re: [USPA] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I hear ya... It was my first spinner and I nearly crapped my pantsWink

I have talked to several riggers on this and the skyhook did what it was suppose to do. It pulled the pin then released because of the pressure.
Someone asked earlier in the thread if I rather not have a rsl and the answer is yes. I want to be able to get rid of my main get stable then pull the reserve. If I was low on that cutaway it would not of mattered if there was a rsl or not . With the rsl you see what happened and with no rsl who knows...

I want that choice.


USPA  (D 81812)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:36 PM
Post #60 of 130 (1406 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I disagree on needing the choice, but that's an endless debate... (rec.skydiving flashbacks... :D ).

I jump RSL, Skyhook and disconnected RSL.


KellyF  (D 13826)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:37 PM
Post #61 of 130 (1411 views)
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Re: [beowulf] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In that case then the Skyhook did exactly what it should have done and disabled itself. You essentially had no RSL at all for that jump.
Or maybe I am reading this wrong?
Actually, an RSL is exactly what he had on that jump- the pin got pulled by the departing canopy, just like the RSL's on any brand of rig on the market. What "failed" was the MARD (Main Assisted Reserve Deployment) portion of the system. We don't know how or why at this point, but I'm curious to find out.

It should take a couple hundred pounds of force in a straight line from the main canopy to the reserve bag to break the red lanyard (I don't know the exact figure off the top of my head). It will take up to 20 lbs. of force in a straight line from the pilot chute to the red lanyard to break the red seal thread holding the lanyard to the hook.

So something broke (more or less by design), was it the red seal thread at the hook, or the red lanyard on the RSL/Skyhook?


dorbie

Sep 29, 2009, 3:39 PM
Post #62 of 130 (1408 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In either case the guy is looking up at his main with his head way back over his reserve tray when he chops so the freebag goes bouncing over his shoulder past his head.

Great for video, maybe not so good for deployment, and another note to self about chopping.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:59 PM
Post #63 of 130 (1388 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

lol I have to laugh at all the Monday quarterbacks. On that cutaway I felt the main come off my back funny. Thats why I looked up to see what was going on. As I did it started spinning. It was getting fast so instead of kicking out of it I cutaway. As I did that my head went low on release of the risers. Right shoulder was lower then left because of direction of spin. When reserve came out I was staring up at it because I was on my back. Line twist happened because of right shoulder being lower then left causing risers to be uneven hens the line twist. I dont know what released on the skyhook and never asked. All I know is I didn't like the situation I was in and would have rather cutaway then gotten stable to deploy my reserve.

Thanks for everyones input and I dont know if we will ever know what really happened....


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Sep 29, 2009, 4:09 PM)


dorbie

Sep 29, 2009, 4:16 PM
Post #64 of 130 (1369 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
lol I have to laugh at all the Monday quarterbacks. On that cutaway I felt the main come off my back funny. Thats why I looked up to see what was going on. As I did it started spinning. It was getting fast so instead of kicking out of it I cutaway. As I did that my head went low on release of the risers. Right shoulder was lower then left because of direction of spin. When reserve came out I was staring up at it because I was on my back. Line twist happened because of right shoulder being lower then left causing risers to be uneven hens the line twist. I dont know what released on the skyhook and never asked. All I know is I didn't like the situation I was in and would have rather cutaway then gotten stable to deploy my reserve.

Thanks for everyones input and I dont know if we will ever know what really happened....

I wasn't trying to be critical, as I said "note to self". I could easily have done the same thing as you did in the video if you hadn't shared so thanks for sharing. It wasn't even on my radar as an issue.

No disrespect or discredit to you for saving your life.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 29, 2009, 4:18 PM
Post #65 of 130 (1365 views)
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Re: [dorbie] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry if i came off like a dickBlush Its all good


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 29, 2009, 9:09 PM
Post #66 of 130 (1309 views)
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Re: [USPA] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Didn't know it was a fight... :D

No fight, just a figure of speech. I was just stating what I took away from the video.

Sparky


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 29, 2009, 9:11 PM
Post #67 of 130 (1307 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yup, take a look at the difference between the risers as the reserve slider is coming down.

Unstable deployment caused the line twists.

Good catch Jim, I didn't even notice that.

Sparky


rickjump1  (C 1323)

Sep 30, 2009, 8:30 AM
Post #68 of 130 (1245 views)
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Re: [beowulf] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Interesting video, not sure what exactly happened there. It sure doesn't look like the Skyhook pulled the reserve. The more I watch the video the more I wonder if the lanyard was even hooked up to the riser.

I had a similar malfunction two weekends ago. Only I wasn't on my back when I cut away. I have a very new Vector Micron with a Skyhook in it. I had no line twists at all under my reserve.
Skyhook worked for me last Sunday; no complaints.


erdnarob  (D 364)

Sep 30, 2009, 9:29 PM
Post #69 of 130 (1185 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you relate to the Vector III with Skyhook incident with a Cessna, well for me it is a Cessna door handle problem. It's the responsibility of the airplane owner to make sure the jump plane is fit for skydiving. If the door handle represented a possible catch for skydiving equipment, it should have been changed. My DZ uses Cessna airplanes and we make sure to put heavy tapes on any parts which can hook, cut or catch the jumper or/and his equipment. It is also the responsibility of the jumper to make sure his equipment has no protruding parts. Any rig could have been caught by this door handle like an exposed 3 ring cable metal housing, a tape across the reserve pin cover that people install to store their pilot chute, the reserve pin cover itself, a camera on the helmet...name it.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 1, 2009, 12:00 AM
Post #70 of 130 (1165 views)
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Re: [erdnarob] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Any rig could have been caught by this door handle like an exposed 3 ring cable metal housing,

But it wasn't "any rig" it was a Vector III with a Skyhook.

It would be impossible to foresee every potential scenario when developing and testing a rig. As is often the case some situations are only discovered at the cost of a life. In this case a cheap price was paid to discover a potential problem. This would be a real good time to give it a look and maybe avert a more costly lesson. jmo

Sparky


irishrigger  (D 297)

Oct 1, 2009, 8:48 AM
Post #71 of 130 (1131 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
If not the bagged reserve falling out and through the SkyHook pulling on the Collins lanyard (only found on SkyHook equiped rigs) what are you supposing caused the one side riser to release?
sorry i can see your point know,i misread your origonal post.

rodger


diablopilot  (D License)

Oct 1, 2009, 10:52 AM
Post #72 of 130 (1106 views)
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Re: [irishrigger] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

No worries, I missed the possibility in my initial examination of the SkyHook System it's self, however I still think it's a great addition to tandem skydiving.

I simply make the point that it adds a large amount of complexity to the system and it must alter the way one skydives if they choose to use one.


ikon

Oct 1, 2009, 12:32 PM
Post #73 of 130 (1047 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In your opinion then do you feel that a skyhook equipped rig is not ideal for someone's first rig? Being a student I've been doing lots of research on rigs beofre I buy one and I've been reading up on skyhook systems alot. Because of the complexity it adds is it more suited for experienced divers?


pilotdave  (D License)

Oct 1, 2009, 1:47 PM
Post #74 of 130 (1024 views)
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Re: [ikon] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

diablopilot may (WILL) have a different answer, but I'd say a skyhook is perfectly suited for all experience levels. The complexity it adds is mainly for the rigger to worry about. You should understand how the system works and what its limitations are. But it does not generally change anything. Your emergency procedures stay exactly the same. But if your body position is imperfect when you cut away or you mess up and cut away lower than you should, the skyhook might make all the difference.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Oct 1, 2009, 1:54 PM)


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Oct 1, 2009, 2:49 PM
Post #75 of 130 (1003 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
diablopilot may (WILL) have a different answer, but I'd say a skyhook is perfectly suited for all experience levels. The complexity it adds is mainly for the rigger to worry about. You should understand how the system works and what its limitations are. But it does not generally change anything. Your emergency procedures stay exactly the same. But if your body position is imperfect when you cut away or you mess up and cut away lower than you should, the skyhook might make all the difference.

Dave

Dave I would have to strongly disagree with your statement. As in a earlier post I show clearly that the skyhook was not the best thing in my situation. Also saying its your riggers problem to understand the omplexity it adds is just silly. You should know how the gear works that you are jumping Wink

It works great for students and Tandems.

As a first rig goes, I think It would be ok to have a skyhook in it. Just make sure you fully understand how it works. Just like everything out there, there are pros and cons.
Just my 2 centsCool


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Oct 1, 2009, 2:52 PM)


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