Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Skyhook ?

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All

diablopilot  (D License)

Sep 27, 2009, 8:01 AM
Post #26 of 130 (2003 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RIGGER] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Before I answer the question, I'll put it to you again.... what would have happened after the TI pulled low, and scared his AAD if he had not had a SKyHook equipped rig?


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Sep 27, 2009, 8:05 AM
Post #27 of 130 (2001 views)
Shortcut
Re: [bigway] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

Thanks for making it more clear.

I did read your post not only the top lines.

Wink Slang around the world - all time no harm Smile

Cheers !!!


MakeItHappen

Sep 27, 2009, 9:17 AM
Post #28 of 130 (1980 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RIGGER] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
NC tandem fatality does started from TI error.

No one said that the Skyhook was the factor.

Actually, Shlomo, there are people that said the Skyhook was part of the problem.
If you read the documentation available from a FOIA request you'll see that the skyhook did play a part in that accident.
UPT added a hesitator to the deployment to alleviate a problem with the skyhook, but only on tandem rigs.

.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 27, 2009, 9:54 AM
Post #29 of 130 (1972 views)
Shortcut
Re: [irishrigger] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have to disagree with you sparky regarding this incident, it was not the skyhook that caused this incident, it was the RSL,to me there is a big difference between the 2.it was the RSL that was snagged on the door.not the skyhook itself,yes the lanyard is attached to the RSL,but that has nothing to do with it.


I have not seen the video and was responding to a statement that the skyhook was activated by the jumper hitting his rig on the wing of the Cessna. If in fact it was a snagged RSL then that would be a different situation.

Sparky


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Sep 28, 2009, 2:39 AM
Post #30 of 130 (1907 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I have to disagree with you sparky regarding this incident, it was not the skyhook that caused this incident, it was the RSL,to me there is a big difference between the 2.it was the RSL that was snagged on the door.not the skyhook itself,yes the lanyard is attached to the RSL,but that has nothing to do with it.


I have not seen the video and was responding to a statement that the skyhook was activated by the jumper hitting his rig on the wing of the Cessna. If in fact it was a snagged RSL then that would be a different situation.

Sparky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bv_NqiT7pM


robskydiv  (D 26660)

Sep 28, 2009, 4:42 AM
Post #31 of 130 (1891 views)
Shortcut
Re: [swoopfly] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope that Altico gets it. I'd love to have one in my Dolphin. Wink


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Sep 28, 2009, 10:07 AM
Post #32 of 130 (1838 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diablopilot] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

What would not happened if he pulled at the right altitude ?

Cheers !!!


(This post was edited by RIGGER on Sep 28, 2009, 10:40 AM)


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Sep 28, 2009, 10:37 AM
Post #33 of 130 (1821 views)
Shortcut
Re: [MakeItHappen] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi

No one = Official Report.

A lot was said about NC tandem fatality but there was not any clear point or clear saying that the skyhook was the factor of the main release.

It is very clear that the low altitude main deployment started the accident.

Yes, some people said the skyhook released the main by the falling free bag loading the "Collins Lanyard", does the cutaway cable trim was checked ?
does they know what the TI did ? I do not know.

Yes, the staging loop & the split RSL lanyard were added a time after the NC accident for the reason of eliminating the "it might happened".

The staging loop / split RSL lanyard are on all new Sigma & Vector h/c from UPT but the retrofit on Sigma & V3 working in the market is not mandatory.

As I said before each system has PRO & CONS.

Cheers !!!


(This post was edited by RIGGER on Sep 28, 2009, 10:42 AM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Sep 28, 2009, 10:41 AM
Post #34 of 130 (1817 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RIGGER] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Smile Hi

What would not happened if he pulled at the right altitude ?

Cheers !!!

What, are you on the payroll or something?

He would have landed uneventfully.

If he hadn't had a SkyHook, and he pulled low, he might of been able to land his main, he might have had a two out, and he might have still died, but for you to ignore the simple fact that a SkyHook GREATLY increases the complexity of the reserve system is irresponsible.


RIGGER  (D 7933)

Sep 28, 2009, 11:15 AM
Post #35 of 130 (1799 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diablopilot] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile Hi Dear Friend

Who said for sure that the skyhook released his main ? it might be & it might not.

I do agree with you that the skyhook does add complexity to the reserve system - more detalis, more accurate spec. & the rigger & user must be aware of all the small details.

Same for the AAD in your system.

Please look at the PROS / SAVES & be aware of the risks - best way to deal with all is to stay within the limits = altitude watch & pull at time.

I saw some Sigma & V3 reserve deployments with skyhook & with staging loop / split RSL lanyard - worked great.

For any reason a skydiver goes low - close to the AAD firing zone - he should pull his reserve.

Be Safe !!!


(This post was edited by RIGGER on Sep 28, 2009, 11:19 AM)


dorbie

Sep 28, 2009, 4:39 PM
Post #36 of 130 (1762 views)
Shortcut
Re: [RIGGER] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Who said for sure that the skyhook released his main ? it might be & it might not.

Seriously?

In reply to:
I saw some Sigma & V3 reserve deployments with skyhook & with staging loop / split RSL lanyard - worked great.

And why have they added these two modifications then?

It doesn't make much sense to deny contributing factors in an incident.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Sep 28, 2009, 4:56 PM
Post #37 of 130 (1746 views)
Shortcut
Re: [swoopfly] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is my reason for not jumping it any more....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEau0dc67e4


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Sep 28, 2009, 8:30 PM
Post #38 of 130 (1709 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

 I know this is off topic, but many people say that looking up and reaching for risers during the opening sequence invites off heading openings and line twists. Because most people don't do this very symetrically causing an unequal loading of the harness.

I would have to agree. I stopped that habit years ago and believe it has made a huge difference in my openings.

I now look at the horizon and work to keep my shoulders square. I also put my feet and knees together as I start getting pulled up to the vertical position. This allows the harness to get equal loading on both sides.

Just a thought.


antonija

Sep 28, 2009, 11:19 PM
Post #39 of 130 (1679 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Here is my reason for not jumping it any more....
The camera on your head or the linetwists?


USPA  (D 81812)

Sep 29, 2009, 2:09 AM
Post #40 of 130 (1665 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Strange, the Skyhook didn't work in your case. The main is long gone, and the bag is still around the reserve. Also you can see the pilot is extracting the bag, not the main.

Furthermore at line stretch the twist isn't there yet, it is started after canopy deployment.

Lastly, you do not arch (seen by the image of your lower body) and yet you want to delay your reserve deployment, for what?


(This post was edited by USPA on Sep 29, 2009, 2:11 AM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 29, 2009, 3:00 AM
Post #41 of 130 (1669 views)
Shortcut
Re: [USPA] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Strange, the Skyhook didn't work in your case.

I dont have a dog in this fight and it doesnt matter to me one way or the other. But you need to look at the video again. At: 31 in the video you can clearly see the right riser attached to the reserve bridle. You can see the bridle forming a bite and both ends going back to the jumper. At :32 you can see 2 maybe 3 line twists in the reserve before full inflation. jmo

Sparky


USPA  (D 81812)

Sep 29, 2009, 4:27 AM
Post #42 of 130 (1650 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't know it was a fight... :D

True, although the skyhook is attached, at 0:32 you can clearly see the pilot is deploying the reserve, not the main (/skyhook). This is the part which is strange, since the skyhook effectivly didn't work.

I personally like the slow-mo better, and by my judgement at 1.18 there doesn't seem to appear a twist yet, (especially when you look at where the twist later is)


irishrigger  (D 297)

Sep 29, 2009, 4:40 AM
Post #43 of 130 (1646 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diablopilot] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Before I answer the question, I'll put it to you again.... what would have happened after the TI pulled low, and scared his AAD if he had not had a SKyHook equipped rig?

hi diablopilot,

i have to strongly disagree with your statement that you made.in my opinion,the skyhhook had nothing to do with this fatality what so ever! the skyhook never interfered with anything at all.
in my opinion the split lanyard might have contributed to the incident,disconnecting the left riser,the pull came form the wrong side as the reserve fell out of the tray.the skyhook did not open the reserve container,nor did the skyhook force the reserve free bag out of the container,it was gravity and a sudden and stop shock as the main inflated.
so in my opinion,the skyhook was not a contributing factor,but saying that,if the cutaway cable not going through the split lanyard,the main might have stayed connected and the out come could have been different and the TM could have dealt with that.

rodger


(This post was edited by irishrigger on Sep 29, 2009, 4:48 AM)


jcd11235  (D License)

Sep 29, 2009, 6:43 AM
Post #44 of 130 (1608 views)
Shortcut
Re: [USPA] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Didn't know it was a fight... :D

True, although the skyhook is attached, at 0:32 you can clearly see the pilot is deploying the reserve, not the main (/skyhook). This is the part which is strange, since the skyhook effectivly didn't work.

I personally like the slow-mo better, and by my judgement at 1.18 there doesn't seem to appear a twist yet, (especially when you look at where the twist later is)

I have to agree with mjosparky's observations. The reserve is deployed by the cutaway main, via the Skyhook, not by the reserve pilot chute. The reserve pilot chute still inflated because the jumper & parachute system were not static in the air. The line twists are clearly visible prior to reserve inflation. They are higher up in the lines during reserve deployment; inflation causes them to move down near the risers.


KellyF  (D 13826)

Sep 29, 2009, 8:55 AM
Post #45 of 130 (1571 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jcd11235] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you look at 1:17, you'll see the cutaway main canopy ~50 feet away from the jumper with no freebag of PC attached to it. If the Skyhook FINISHED the deployment, you should see the reserve in that shot. The Skyhook initiated deplyment by pulling the reserve pin, then either disconnected, or the lanyard broke because it couldn't pull the bagged reserve from between the jumper's head and right shoulder.

So the question I have is: was the lanyard found intact or broken?


jcd11235  (D License)

Sep 29, 2009, 9:09 AM
Post #46 of 130 (1557 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KellyF] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you look at 1:17, you'll see the cutaway main canopy ~50 feet away from the jumper with no freebag of PC attached to it. If the Skyhook FINISHED the deployment, you should see the reserve in that shot.

I stand corrected.


sfgroschwitz  (D 30531)

Sep 29, 2009, 9:12 AM
Post #47 of 130 (1552 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ozzy13] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Here is my reason for not jumping it any more....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEau0dc67e4

Disregarding for the moment whether or not the skyhook actually deployed the reserve (I couldn't tell from the video), are you saying that

a) the skyhook has a higher risk of creating line twist in the reserve when chopped spinning than a normal RSL?

b) the several hundred feet in altitude you might save with a skyhook as opposed to a normal RSL (or even no RSL) are always (or just in most situations) less advantageous to survival than avoiding the chance of line twist that's associated with it?

Edited for clarity


(This post was edited by sfgroschwitz on Sep 29, 2009, 9:16 AM)


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 29, 2009, 9:15 AM
Post #48 of 130 (1545 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jcd11235] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nah. It was clearly not attached. It was not direct bagged by the main. Line stretch occurred because the pilot chute did what it was supposed to. In that video, the skyhook did not do what it was designed to.

The line twists occurred because the bag was pulled off the jumpers back while his back was toward the earth.


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 29, 2009, 9:26 AM
Post #49 of 130 (1528 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sfgroschwitz] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Disregarding for the moment whether or not the skyhook actually deployed the reserve (I couldn't tell from the video), are you saying that

a) the skyhook has a higher risk of creating line twist in the reserve when chopped spinning than a normal RSL?

b) the several hundred feet in altitude you might save with a skyhook as opposed to a normal RSL (or even no RSL) are always (or just in most situations) less advantageous to survival than the chance of line twist?

A) No. If it works as advertised, it has a lower chance of line twists than a standard RSL. If it works properly, it pulls the bag from the container before it can be influenced by the jumpers body.

B) Starting from a back to earth spiraling line twist, I still lose very little altitude and can pull my reserve ripcord face to earth in 1/2 to 1 second.

If you have an RSL You must ARCH when cutting away, not after, do it before or during the cutaway to help stop from doing a back roll.


diablopilot  (D License)

Sep 29, 2009, 11:41 AM
Post #50 of 130 (1478 views)
Shortcut
Re: [irishrigger] Skyhook ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Before I answer the question, I'll put it to you again.... what would have happened after the TI pulled low, and scared his AAD if he had not had a SKyHook equipped rig?

hi diablopilot,

i have to strongly disagree with your statement that you made.in my opinion,the skyhhook had nothing to do with this fatality what so ever! the skyhook never interfered with anything at all.
in my opinion the split lanyard might have contributed to the incident,disconnecting the left riser,the pull came form the wrong side as the reserve fell out of the tray.the skyhook did not open the reserve container,nor did the skyhook force the reserve free bag out of the container,it was gravity and a sudden and stop shock as the main inflated.
so in my opinion,the skyhook was not a contributing factor,but saying that,if the cutaway cable not going through the split lanyard,the main might have stayed connected and the out come could have been different and the TM could have dealt with that.

rodger

If not the bagged reserve falling out and through the SkyHook pulling on the Collins lanyard (only found on SkyHook equiped rigs) what are you supposing caused the one side riser to release?


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Gear and Rigging

 


Search for (options)