Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900

 


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Aug 31, 2009, 9:46 PM
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Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 Can't Post

Hot of the press(release), the Canon 7D. Here and Here.

Looks and sounds promising but I'm not trading in my 5D just yet.


PharmerPhil  (D 23899)

Sep 1, 2009, 3:05 AM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems odd (to me) that they went down to an APS-C sized sensor on this camera.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Sep 1, 2009, 5:48 AM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

MAN, that thing looks sweet.... the fact that all 19 focus points are cross-type and active at f/5.6 vs. f/2.8 is a HUGE advantage.

Improved metering taking color into account...can you say "no more red channel blowout"?

Leveling indicator...built in flash transmitter (no more hanging an st-e2 off the PC port)... looks like this could be a GREAT "all around" camera.


(This post was edited by mnealtx on Sep 1, 2009, 6:00 AM)


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Sep 1, 2009, 6:08 AM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder how much longer we are going to have to wait till we see an all in one solution for our application. By that I mean, a camera that will shoot HD video and capture high resolution stills (at an acceptable frame rate) at the same time. I hope it's soon!

Blue Skies,
Jason


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Sep 1, 2009, 6:55 AM
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Re: [freefalljason] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wonder how much longer we are going to have to wait till we see an all in one solution for our application. By that I mean, a camera that will shoot HD video and capture high resolution stills (at an acceptable frame rate) at the same time. I hope it's soon!

Blue Skies,
Jason

Full HD video and 8fps still photos aren't good enough for you?

[sarc]I'm sure Canon or Nikon will be glad to take your R&D money to build something acceptable.[/sarc] Tongue


FreeflyChile  (A 32605)

Sep 1, 2009, 7:40 AM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hot of the press(release), the Canon 7D. Here and Here.

Looks and sounds promising but I'm not trading in my 5D just yet.

So if I am understanding this correctly, is this supposed to be a sort of mid-point between the digital rebel series and the 5D?


pilotdave  (D License)

Sep 1, 2009, 7:49 AM
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Re: [FreeflyChile] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Hot of the press(release), the Canon 7D. Here and Here.

Looks and sounds promising but I'm not trading in my 5D just yet.

So if I am understanding this correctly, is this supposed to be a sort of mid-point between the digital rebel series and the 5D?

I think it's kind of in a new class (for canon). Not really below a 5D, just different. And it's more in the 50D line than the 5D line anyway. Not full frame, but that's got advantages too. It'll be a better camera for sports than the 5D... better autofocus, higher frame rate, higher pixel density, more lens choices, etc.

Looks good to me!

EDIT: Oh never mind. This will be useless for skydivers. No sports mode on the dial! Tongue Tongue

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Sep 1, 2009, 7:57 AM)


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

Sep 1, 2009, 8:28 AM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Uncle Lou,
Would you get me one for Christmas????
PLEASE?????

Tongue


Bill_K  (D 30260)

Sep 1, 2009, 8:36 AM
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Re: [pilotdave] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

EDIT: Oh never mind. This will be useless for skydivers. No sports mode on the dial! Tongue Tongue

Dave

Wait? Maybe that's what's wrong, I need to be using sports mode... but you guys all told me to go learn to use my camera and that in doing so I would probably want to use different settings...

So confused. Unsure
Tongue


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Sep 1, 2009, 8:51 AM
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Re: [mnealtx] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my OP.

I am looking for a camera that will take hi res pics at an acceptable frame rate while simultaneously shooting HD vid.

If I read the reveiws correctly, this cam can only do one at a time.Unsure
Quote:
There's a dedicated switch to flip from shooting stills to video that encircles a start/stop button for recording, so it's much easier to get right to shooting video than the 5D.

I think that the CX100 can do both at the same time but the frame rate and res. of the pics are not acceptable for us.

Blue Skies,
Jason


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
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Sep 1, 2009, 10:33 AM
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Uncle Lou,
Would you get me one for Christmas????
PLEASE?????

Tongue


Hey there bro. Of course I'll get you one for Christmas, just wait by the mailbox and it'll show up. I'll even throw in an extra bottle of autofocus.Wink


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Sep 1, 2009, 1:15 PM
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Re: [freefalljason] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Not even RED is able to do what you are asking and they are throwing money at this issue like its water. You might see a low end solution to this in the next 3-5 years but in order to shoot 1080 and still get 12+mp stills shot my guess is its more likely to appear in the 5-10 year window and only be affordable at the later end of that. You've still got huge segments of the consumers that need to buy HDTV's until they do that there is not a real driver to make cameras that shoot HD. They still make DV level cameras...


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Sep 1, 2009, 4:39 PM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the reply.

I was hoping it was much closer than that with the cx100 getting close just lacking on the stills side.

Any chances of a cam that could do it in SD anytime soon?

Thanks again and Blue Skies,
Jason

P.S. Sorry for the Hijack.Blush


Laszloimage  (D 22468)

Sep 1, 2009, 5:58 PM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you Scott!
It's never perfect...
The 7D shoots 24p and has better controls but it's not a full frame.
The 5D mkII is full frame but shoots 30p only...
I can't wait to see in the camera in the future with full frame sensor and 1080 24p capability.
-Laszlo-


BMFin

Sep 2, 2009, 2:15 PM
Post #15 of 76 (4558 views)
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Re: [Laszloimage] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Also 60fps 720p sounds real nice.. Cool

Oh, and check out this video Laugh


(This post was edited by BMFin on Sep 2, 2009, 3:34 PM)


BMFin

Sep 2, 2009, 2:58 PM
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Re: [Laszloimage] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and has better controls but it's not a full frame.
The 5D mkII is full frame but shoots 30p only...
I can't wait to see in the camera in the future with full frame sensor and 1080 24p capability.


BTW. What exactly would make FF better ?

From what I understand the 7D sensor is very close to a 35mm film camera size anyway. The FF stillcamera sensor size is larger. I understand the featured film 35mm film frame is 24.89 x 18.67 which is actually closer to the 7D sensor size than 5D.

IMO a cropped sensor can produce more than enough DOF for video when shooting with a large aperture.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Sep 2, 2009, 6:58 PM
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Re: [Laszloimage] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can't wait to see in the camera in the future with full frame sensor and 1080 24p capability.
-Laszlo-

You wont' have to wait long. Tongue


the_sarge  (E 298)

Sep 5, 2009, 12:55 AM
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

But 18 MP?? On an APS-C sized sensor??

That's almost ridiculous. Not even the sharpest L-series lens will deliver that kind of resolution.


And... By the way:

Quote:
BTW. What exactly would make FF better ?

Well... Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution


(This post was edited by the_sarge on Sep 5, 2009, 1:00 AM)


pilotdave  (D License)

Sep 5, 2009, 6:05 AM
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution

How is that? The advantage of less pixel density is less noise. More pixel density gives higher resolution. This is the big advantage of a cropped sensor over a full frame sensor. Given the same lens and the same number of pixels, the cropped sensor will have more pixels per square inch of the picture, giving it a higher apparent resolution. This is what gives a cropped sensor more "reach," since the picture can be cropped farther while keeping more pixels on the subject. An 18 mp image from a cropped camera is not the same as a 1.6 crop from an 18 mp full frame camera. The cropped camera picture will have higher resolution.

If they found a way to deal with the noise effectively while maintaining sharpness, the cropped sensor has its advantage over full frame. That doesn't mean it's for everyone though.

But I do agree 18 mp is reaching overkill. Waiting for the reviews of this one to see if the resolution is really higher than the 50D with 15 mp.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on Sep 5, 2009, 6:07 AM)


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 6:10 AM
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But 18 MP?? On an APS-C sized sensor??

That's almost ridiculous. Not even the sharpest L-series lens will deliver that kind of resolution.

Correct me if Im wrong:

the resolution is of the 7Dis 5184 x 3456

5184px would require roughly >2600 LPPM lens.

Acoording to this even the non-L zoom lens 17-55 2.8 will deliver 2536 LPPM, which means it could utilize the 5184px of the 7D

Now if you would take some prime L-series lenses im sure they preform even sharper. If you want SHARP then you can always use Zeiss optics and they are even better.

Even if the LLPM of the cheaper glass X isnt enough, it doesnt necessarily mean that the absolute quality wouldnt be a little bit better when the sensor has better ability to separate each "line". (regardless of the lens not being able to) This IMO could mean better use of sharpening.

I agree that this amount of pixels with APS-C size is perhaps near the limit what is reasonable with the optics availeable.

This rough calculation of mine doesnt actually take into acount Bayer filtering and other factors, but it should be "somewhere around there"

Also you can always shoot sRAW if you dont want to shoot 18 Mpix Smile


Quote:
BTW. What exactly would make FF better ?

Well... Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution
This is true, but it doesnt help when shooting video at 1920x1080

It only helps when shooting full resolution.

And when talking about sensor size in general, effective sharpness is only one factor in the game. There are other factors also and it is up to the user which of those factors might be of most importance for his use.

For example sports + bird photographers value very much the 1.6x crop effect together with their 500mm lens. For them the effective LLPM is secondary.


(This post was edited by BMFin on Sep 5, 2009, 6:15 AM)


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 6:21 AM
Post #21 of 76 (4332 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution

How is that? The advantage of less pixel density is less noise. More pixel density gives higher resolution. This is the big advantage of a cropped sensor over a full frame sensor. Given the same lens and the same number of pixels, the cropped sensor will have more pixels per square inch of the picture, giving it a higher apparent resolution.

You forget that the LLPM (line pairs per millimetre) of the optics will play part in here and therefore FF has more effective LPPM.

If the optics were "infinitly sharp" then you would be right.


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 7:10 AM
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Re: [pilotdave] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

My previous answer was a bit quick.. so I add some more.

In reply to:
More pixel density gives higher resolution.

No. 8 megapixels is 8megapixels on both FF and APC-C regardless of the pixel density.

Density doesnt give more resolution.

In reply to:
Given the same lens and the same number of pixels, the cropped sensor will have more pixels per square inch of the picture, giving it a higher apparent resolution.

The smaller sensor will utilize only smaller area of the lens, but still take the same amount of pixels. Therefore the lens should have better sharpness to produce the same IQ. However this isnt as simple as this since lenses are always sharper on the centre which is good for the APS-C.


In reply to:
An 18 mp image from a cropped camera is not the same as a 1.6 crop from an 18 mp full frame camera. The cropped camera picture will have higher resolution.

Resolution is resolution. 18 megapixels is 18 megapixels regardless of the sensor size. Sharpness may be different but resolution just means the amount of pixels, nothing else.


the_sarge  (E 298)

Sep 5, 2009, 7:58 AM
Post #23 of 76 (4313 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Well... Full frame sensor = less pixel density = far better effective resolution

You're right... I was a bit unprecise with that statement.

What i really meant was:

An 18 MP full-frame sensor will give you a sharper image than an 18 MP APS-C sensor.

This is only due to the fact that on the APS-C sensor, some of the 18 MP will be lost due to a lack of optical resolution (sharpness).

That would not be the case with a full-frame sensor and good optics.

Quote:
18 megapixels is 18 megapixels regardless of the sensor size

Yes... In terms of sensor resolution .... But the word "resolution" may also relate to optical sharpness.


(This post was edited by the_sarge on Sep 5, 2009, 8:11 AM)


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 8:37 AM
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
An 18 MP full-frame sensor will give you a sharper image than an 18 MP APS-C sensor.

This is only due to the fact that on the APS-C sensor, some of the 18 MP will be lost due to a lack of optical resolution (sharpness).

yes. Agreed.

But when we talk about HD-video resolution (1920x1080) this has no effect at all.

In reply to:
Yes... In terms of sensor resolution .... But the word "resolution" may also relate to optical sharpness.

You are right.. I was a bit off there..


the_sarge  (E 298)

Sep 5, 2009, 9:35 AM
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes... When shooting HD video, the sensor format shouldn't make much difference.

Quote:
Acoording to this even the non-L zoom lens 17-55 2.8 will deliver 2536 LPPM

The test you are referreing to is using the unit of LW/PH (Line widths per picture height)

In order to utilize the 18 MP of the EOS 7D, the optics would need a resolution of 3456 LW/PH, equal to the vertical number of pixels on the sensor.

(And the 17-55 f/2.8 USM is one of the sharpest canon lenses)


BMFin

Sep 5, 2009, 9:01 PM
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The test you are referreing to is using the unit of LW/PH (Line widths per picture height)

You are right. I was confused there. LPPM isnt the same as LW/PH

In reply to:
In order to utilize the 18 MP of the EOS 7D, the optics would need a resolution of 3456 LW/PH, equal to the vertical number of pixels on the sensor.

This im not so sure about just yet. I agree that this is how it seems at first glance, but is it really ?

I admit that Im not so familiar with the subject, so I could be wrong.

The thing that makes me wonder is that when we look at the photozone test 17-55 f/2.8 @ 8Mpix (350D sensor) the maximum MTF value is measured 2126,5 LW/PH even though the theoretical maximum would be 2304 on that sensor. At first glance it would seem the lens doesnt quite utilize the whole sensor. Right ?

However when the test was done with a 15 Mpix (50D sensor) the maximum MTF value at the same aperture as on the previous test was 2536.

Now I would be very curious to see what the MTF values would be when the lens was tested on a sensor with even higher resolution. Lets say 20Mpix. Im almost sure the MTF value on that sensor would be even higher than 2536. Dont you agree ?

What I mean is that even if you wont measure the theoretical maximum MTF value with the lens on 15Mpix sensor, that doesnt mean it wouldnt perform better on a sensor with larger resolution.

Therefore it looks like that going beyond 15 Mpix is beneficial in terms of true picture resolution. Do you agree ? Sure the gain becomes smaller and smaller all the time so it is very likely that the gain is not very large beyond 15 Mpix.. Who knows ?

The author of the Photozone Lens Test FAQ is guessing the limit could be somewhere around 20Mpix with the sharp lenses. " Assuming optimal conditions I would guess that a few, very few lenses may have the potential to go up to 20mp on APS-C but only with their center portion. "

Intresting subject. Anyway it seems IMO that building a 18 Mpix APS-C sensor isnt just a Canon marketing strategy, but it actually is of use to those with sharp optics.


the_sarge  (E 298)

Sep 6, 2009, 2:11 AM
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
... the maximum MTF value is measured 2126,5 LW/PH even though the theoretical maximum would be 2304 on that sensor...

I would guess that is due to the measurement method which is used... I don't think one would be able to measure the theoretical maximum. You also have to take into consideration that all SLRs have AA filters in front of the sensor, which will slightly blur the image.

But when the measured resolution gets really close to the theoretical max, it is pretty safe to assume that the optical resolution of the lens does exceed the sensor resolution. (Like the 17-55 f/f2.8 @ 8MP test)

The theoretical max @ 15 MP would be 3168 LW/PH. Since none of the 15MP tests on photozone.de achieve more than 2600 LW/PH, i really don't think that Canon even produces lenses that exceed the resolution of a 15 MP APS-C sensor.

Of course i would also like to see some resolution tests @ 18MP...


surt  (B License)

Sep 14, 2009, 4:33 AM
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Re: [the_sarge] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

and another problem of so many pixels will be light difraction

with apertures of 11 and upper, the diffraction cone will be bigger than the pixel size, so it does not care how good the lense is, it is fisically impossible to get more resolution...


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Sep 16, 2009, 11:45 PM
Post #29 of 76 (2062 views)
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Re: [surt] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and another problem of so many pixels will be light difraction

with apertures of 11 and upper, the diffraction cone will be bigger than the pixel size, so it does not care how good the lense is, it is fisically impossible to get more resolution...

Almost. It depends on the size of the sensor. As relates to this cam, you're correct, of course.

The 7D is the cam body I've been waiting for for gen purpose everything. Real video, not animotion 30p, and 24p, so it's an amateur and even a low-end pro videographer's dream in addition to the still side.
Beautiful images, does great in highspeed environments, built like a brick sh**house. Very nice cam overall.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Sep 17, 2009, 8:35 AM
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you have a chance to play with one yet, Douglas?

If so, could you post your opinion as well?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Sep 17, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Re: [mnealtx] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

I was permitted about an hour with it last month, and was not allowed to leave the building so I shot in very limited circumstances. I did have my own lenses however, and was pleased with what I saw both in the RAW and JPG images.
The video is finally mostly ready for prime-time. It's 29.97 vs 30p fixed. If you're already a "Canon-ite" you'll be very familiar with the controls.
Scary fast focus. I connected the 580 flash and was surprised at the options and speed.
The "Spray n' Pray" photographer will love how fast it is.
Dropping the sharpening resulted in a very film/silver-like image vs digital image, so I love that aspect. It's very smooth in how it manages grades.
It was noisy at ISO3200 (as expected), but it saw details my eyes couldn't make out. I primarily focused on the video aspects of the camera, as that's the market we're doing a training DVD for. I'll have a 7D in a week or so for that shoot.

Scotty Burns had a fair amount of time with the camera at the trade show yesterday, hopefully he'll chime in with his opinion. He was mostly interested in it as a still cam vs video.

Canon is making a big deal out of the ergonomics of the camera, but the truth is (from my perspective), that it feels little different from the 5D or even 50D.
For 1700.00 (body only) it's a beautiful piece for a mid-level camera.


(This post was edited by DSE on Sep 17, 2009, 11:58 AM)


mnskydiver688  (D 30125)

Sep 17, 2009, 10:23 PM
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know, I am holding out for enough money to get a Leica S2. Or the M9 with the 50mm f/.95 lens. Ha dream on.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Sep 18, 2009, 7:14 AM
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, Douglas...appreciate the info.

No more than I get an opportunity to shoot anymore, it'd definitely be overkill and under-utilized...but DAMN does it look sweet.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Sep 18, 2009, 7:57 AM
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Re: [mnealtx] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Its a rare time that you are using a camera and your thought is "Damn, this camera is too powerful for my uses" Wink

I see this one being popular once prices fall to the levels that the 50D is at now. Its also going to require an investment in L glass to get the most bang for the photos. Then again at 2K for the body what is another couple of hundred for the 17-55?


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Sep 18, 2009, 9:24 AM
Post #35 of 76 (1860 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Its a rare time that you are using a camera and your thought is "Damn, this camera is too powerful for my uses" Wink

True, true....

In reply to:
I see this one being popular once prices fall to the levels that the 50D is at now. Its also going to require an investment in L glass to get the most bang for the photos. Then again at 2K for the body what is another couple of hundred for the 17-55?

Well, I've got the 24-105 f/4L, the 70-200 f/2.8L (non-IS) and the 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L, so I'm pretty much set, there... although some primes are calliing my name... Wink


BMFin

Oct 14, 2009, 4:49 PM
Post #36 of 76 (1740 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Some amazing videos shot with the 7d:

http://www.vimeo.com/6938509

http://www.vimeo.com/6860546


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Oct 14, 2009, 5:32 PM
Post #37 of 76 (1730 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Very nice, but you can clearly see where he shot 30p vs 60p. Audio is very good, which is one of the other places the camera kicks a$$ over the 5DmkII.
Looks like he's using a Microdolly or similar through some of it. Thanks for pointing it out!


mnskydiver688  (D 30125)

Oct 15, 2009, 12:28 AM
Post #38 of 76 (1688 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

If only that kind of footage was possible out of the box. I have a few questions though. I wonder if some color correction was used in post because it seems very saturated in some shots and blown out in others? Also, I wonder what glass was being used?


BMFin

Oct 15, 2009, 3:12 AM
Post #39 of 76 (1676 views)
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Re: [mnskydiver688] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

No real post processing. He says he bumped up the contrast and saturation a little in the camera. So the picture should be as it comes from the camera.

Lenses were

Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.0
Canon 50mm f/1.4
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8

He says he uses Glidetrack dolly for some shots. On the other hand a lot was shot hand held.


six8fbird  (B License)

Dec 16, 2009, 10:32 AM
Post #40 of 76 (1489 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Has any one had the chance to shoot video with it in a skydive? If so does any one have a link to the footage? Thanks!


shogo  (C License)

Dec 16, 2009, 2:49 PM
Post #41 of 76 (1461 views)
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Re: [six8fbird] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Very unlikely. Just swaying it wobbles the image pretty bad. (On the ground.)


melushell  (D 28650)

Apr 21, 2010, 3:38 AM
Post #42 of 76 (1237 views)
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Re: [shogo] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

just got a 7D
super impressed until now, still need to learn how to properly use it

did some test shooting but as i after uploading the framerate went a bit off

footage looks loads better wit no editing (especially the ''sharpness'')

video:
http://vimeo.com/11102908

and some test stills:
http://picasaweb.google.es/100436615281826632443


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Apr 21, 2010, 4:18 AM
Post #43 of 76 (1227 views)
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Re: [melushell] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

For those coming to this thread late, Canon have more or less fixed their jelloing problem except in some odd circumstances. We're working a segment right now that is entirely shot with a 7d, RazorPrime, and it's looking quite good thus far.
More on that later.


melushell  (D 28650)

Apr 21, 2010, 5:01 AM
Post #44 of 76 (1216 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

googled razorprime

no results

DSE can you please give us a bit more info on that?


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 21, 2010, 10:29 AM
Post #45 of 76 (1137 views)
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Re: [melushell] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In the video, It looks like any fast movement gets blurry. Am I seeing that right?


shogo  (C License)

Apr 21, 2010, 2:23 PM
Post #46 of 76 (1089 views)
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Re: [melushell] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow. Thanks for posting the video! I have had 7D since last year and I never gave it a try videoing in freefall. After seeing that, I will try it. Just curious, why 720/50fps?
Do you have IS on your 18-55? If so, did you turn it on? Canon does not recommend turning IS on while videoing because it records the IS motor noise, but I thought that in our case the wind noise would cover that.


(This post was edited by shogo on Apr 21, 2010, 2:28 PM)


shogo  (C License)

Apr 21, 2010, 2:31 PM
Post #47 of 76 (1084 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

May be blurring (jump suits), but I did not see the jelloing problem like in the Nikon D90 and the canon 5Dmkii, even when he picked up the camera and panned it to chase the airplane.


(This post was edited by shogo on Apr 21, 2010, 2:33 PM)


BMFin

Apr 21, 2010, 5:45 PM
Post #48 of 76 (1045 views)
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Re: [shogo] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

A few talented Finnish skydivers have filmed some nice music videos with the 5dm2 such as this:

http://www.vimeo.com/9707347

I remember after the 5Dm2 came out and I thought it was pretty cool and exiting, people were laughing at me in here for thinking so...

I dont hear anyone laughing no more. Canon DSLR video has proven to be exellent piece of equipment no doubt.

Even some of the bigger budget film makers use it nowadays. (Fox series house, 24 etc...)

Im eager to see what people will come up with this in the air..


(This post was edited by BMFin on Apr 21, 2010, 5:46 PM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Apr 21, 2010, 7:30 PM
Post #49 of 76 (1023 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I remember after the 5Dm2 came out and I thought it was pretty cool and exiting, people were laughing at me in here for thinking so...

In fairness....the camera didn't perform well at all in its initial release, and it took Canon over a year to respond to the jelloing issue. DSLR filmmaking is big, no doubt. There are still several issues, but the workarounds now are plentiful, vs what they were a year ago.
And of course, you still can't shoot stills and video, nor are video frame grabs a high enough quality to be sellable.

Shoto, the uniQoptics lens known as the Razor is a cinematic lens converted for DSLR.
http://www.facebook.com/...4a&id=1032868837 for a photo of it on my camera. They should be shipping quite soon.

to add; I didn't leave a space between Razor and Prime....sorry if that messed up your google search!


(This post was edited by DSE on Apr 21, 2010, 7:32 PM)


melushell  (D 28650)

Apr 22, 2010, 1:28 AM
Post #50 of 76 (981 views)
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Re: [shogo] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just curious, why 720/50fps?
Do you have IS on your 18-55? If so, did you turn it on?

the lens is and very old kit lens 18-55 that came with my 350D, no IS (image stabilisation)
the blurring of the framerates has a lot to do with my poor editing skills and understanding of framerates
i choose 720/50i just to see how slowmotion looks at 25 frames

really is the first test i did with the cam, and i have loads to learn

stay tuned, more is about to come just need some proper lens


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Apr 22, 2010, 5:00 AM
Post #51 of 76 (1273 views)
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Re: [melushell] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

24p, 25p, 30p, and 50i are all poor siource framerates for slomo by comparison to 60i and 60p.
Very difficult to create more interpolated frames where there were none to begin with, and call it "good."
Umderstanding apertures, zoom depth, etc will really help you with image quality more than a different lens will.
try shooting everything at f5.6 or f8. You'll have little to kno shallow DOF, but you'll minimize blur. Shutterspeed and aperture will determine blurs, framerates will determine smoothness.


linestretch  (D 21060)

Apr 23, 2010, 5:42 AM
Post #52 of 76 (1189 views)
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Re: [melushell] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

I had my remote switch on my 5D crap out in the plane so I opted to shoot video with it. I've had the video for quite a while but never posted it. Skydive's not much to talk about but the colors and clarity are unreal on a big HD tv.


Costyn  (D 92506)

May 22, 2010, 12:04 PM
Post #53 of 76 (1042 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
24p, 25p, 30p, and 50i are all poor siource framerates for slomo by comparison to 60i and 60p.
Very difficult to create more interpolated frames where there were none to begin with, and call it "good."
Umderstanding apertures, zoom depth, etc will really help you with image quality more than a different lens will.
try shooting everything at f5.6 or f8. You'll have little to kno shallow DOF, but you'll minimize blur. Shutterspeed and aperture will determine blurs, framerates will determine smoothness.

Hey DSE, do you know any articles online that you can recommend about this stuff? I'd like to learn how to shoot better video with my 550D.

Cheers,

Costyn.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

May 22, 2010, 6:34 PM
Post #54 of 76 (1000 views)
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Re: [Costyn] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Well..there are LOTS of websites regarding shutterspeed, DOF, and apertures for still photography, and for the most part, those same things apply to doing video with a still camera. If you can wait about a month, VASST have a training DVD on shooting video with a DSLR coming.
http://members.shaw.ca/ocl3/technical1.html has some great illustrations for showing the DOF.
http://www.mir.com.my/...ech/htmls/depth.html has some good shutter speed/aperture information.
Easy thing to remember is the higher the value/number of the f-stop, the higher the depth of field. The lower the number, the lesser/shallower the DOF. A lens that is "fast" has a wide aperture potential. Anything larger than a 2.0 is considered "fast." Bear in mind that with *most* zoom lenses, your aperture decreases as you zoom in, which is why you see zoom lenses that say "f4-f5.6 on the barrel. The aperture size is determined by the depth of zoom applied.
HTH?


Costyn  (D 92506)

May 23, 2010, 12:19 AM
Post #55 of 76 (982 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi DSE,

Thanks, I thought video might have extra things to take into account that pertain especially to video. During the past years of owning a DSLR I have done my homework on photography and feel I have a good grasp of aperture, shutter speed, iso and the inherent relationship between them. And about 'fast' lenses and such.

Here's some delicious shallow DOF footage I made recently: http://vimeo.com/11024962 (warning, non skydiving footage! Tongue)

Cheers


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

May 23, 2010, 8:26 AM
Post #56 of 76 (960 views)
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Re: [Costyn] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

other than the exposure, that's a really nice piece of footage.
Video has limit points, and highly compressed AVC footage makes superwhites appear to be blown out/clipped. The plastic hang tag in the video is white, but it's blown and bleeds, and when the sun hits the parrots belly, it blows it as well. In a photographic setting, you could probably get away with it. In video, the compression amplifies any exposure issues.
In other words, under expose a bit. If you're in the curve, underexposure can easily be dealt with in post. Over exposure of course...cannot be dealt with at all. The details are gone.
wish I had something that saturated in my trees.


Costyn  (D 92506)

May 28, 2010, 12:31 AM
Post #57 of 76 (878 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the tips, DSE. I'll be sure to keep those things in mind next time I'm shooting video.


4dbill  (D 11664)

Jun 1, 2010, 9:01 AM
Post #58 of 76 (784 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been eyeing the 7D for some time since it seems to give that 35mm movie quality look in 1080 mode.
However, there has been a significant number of reports from a general video community that it gets extremely hot after a short shoot, as little as 10 minutes.
Has anybody experienced this in a skydiving environment?
There is a huge jump from 7D to 4D Mark II, so..

4DBill


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 1, 2010, 8:13 PM
Post #59 of 76 (743 views)
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Re: [4dbill] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

it does get very hot. "Extremely" isn't the word I'd use. If one isn't familiar with file-based camcorders, it probably would be considered "extreme." Tne EX1/EX3 get equally hot...lots of memory buffering, lotsa heat being generated.


vdschoor  (D 27300)

Jun 2, 2010, 10:54 AM
Post #60 of 76 (704 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it does get very hot. "Extremely" isn't the word I'd use. If one isn't familiar with file-based camcorders, it probably would be considered "extreme." Tne EX1/EX3 get equally hot...lots of memory buffering, lotsa heat being generated.

Just make sure the camera is properly aircooled Tongue shouldn't be a problem on your camera helmet right?


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Jun 8, 2010, 12:45 PM
Post #61 of 76 (629 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it does get very hot. "Extremely" isn't the word I'd use. If one isn't familiar with file-based camcorders, it probably would be considered "extreme." Tne EX1/EX3 get equally hot...lots of memory buffering, lotsa heat being generated.

Is the shutter tripping for each frame, or is it electronically segmenting individual frames? I would think (if the former) that the shutter motor would get hot pretty fast...


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Jun 8, 2010, 3:36 PM
Post #62 of 76 (612 views)
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Re: [mnealtx] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is the shutter tripping for each frame, or is it electronically segmenting individual frames? I would think (if the former) that the shutter motor would get hot pretty fast...

DSLR cameras don't have shutters.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 8, 2010, 5:03 PM
Post #63 of 76 (594 views)
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Re: [mnealtx] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

CPU/transfer bus are what get hot. Most of the file-based camcorders have some heat issues of one sort or another.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Jun 8, 2010, 5:14 PM
Post #64 of 76 (588 views)
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Re: [BobMoore] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is the shutter tripping for each frame, or is it electronically segmenting individual frames? I would think (if the former) that the shutter motor would get hot pretty fast...

DSLR cameras don't have shutters.

Wow - my 30D and my Rebel before it must be broken then, because both of them most certainly do.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Jun 8, 2010, 5:17 PM
Post #65 of 76 (588 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
CPU/transfer bus are what get hot. Most of the file-based camcorders have some heat issues of one sort or another.

I wasn't aware of that...thanks for the info.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 8, 2010, 5:32 PM
Post #66 of 76 (585 views)
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Re: [BobMoore] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
DSLR cameras don't have shutters.

DSLR's do have shutters. They're not necessary, but are indeed part of the camera. Perhaps you are thinking of the leaf shutter, as opposed to the plane shutter? DSLR's don't have leaf shutters.


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Jun 8, 2010, 5:35 PM
Post #67 of 76 (584 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
DSLR cameras don't have shutters.

DSLR's do have shutters. They're not necessary, but are indeed part of the camera. Perhaps you are thinking of the leaf shutter, as opposed to the plane shutter? DSLR's don't have leaf shutters.

Okay, my apologies. I'll crawl back under my rock now.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 8, 2010, 5:41 PM
Post #68 of 76 (579 views)
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Re: [BobMoore] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Please don't crawl back under a rock.
The light is better out here.

You'd be surprised at how many people confuse leaf vs plane shutters. I made the same assumption when DSLR first arrived.
Neither is needed, but the plane shutter does help keep dust off the imager, and of course, helps pre-compose the frame.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Jun 8, 2010, 5:47 PM
Post #69 of 76 (578 views)
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Re: [BobMoore] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
DSLR cameras don't have shutters.

DSLR's do have shutters. They're not necessary, but are indeed part of the camera. Perhaps you are thinking of the leaf shutter, as opposed to the plane shutter? DSLR's don't have leaf shutters.

Okay, my apologies. I'll crawl back under my rock now.

Sorry, Bob - I should have thrown a couple smileys in my post, above.


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Jun 8, 2010, 6:29 PM
Post #70 of 76 (571 views)
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Re: [mnealtx] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Okay, my apologies. I'll crawl back under my rock now.

Sorry, Bob - I should have thrown a couple smileys in my post, above.

I did not take your post negatively at all. No need to apologize.

I am embarrassed that I spoke about something that I did not know about. I WAS referring to the leaf shutter DSE mentioned. I didn't know there was another item in there that could be described as a shutter.

Bob


mnealtx  (B 30496)

Jun 8, 2010, 6:51 PM
Post #71 of 76 (566 views)
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Re: [BobMoore] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Okay, my apologies. I'll crawl back under my rock now.

Sorry, Bob - I should have thrown a couple smileys in my post, above.

I did not take your post negatively at all. No need to apologize.

I am embarrassed that I spoke about something that I did not know about. I WAS referring to the leaf shutter DSE mentioned. I didn't know there was another item in there that could be described as a shutter.

Bob

No worries, then - here's some interesting info on the subject of why DSLR's need a shutter, from a dpreview forum thread:

Quote:
The shutter in dSLRs do two things:

1. Time the exposure.

2. Exclude light from the sensor during non-capture times (which is MOST of the time).

The first one is the simpler of the two...let's start there. Yes, it would be easy to substitute an electronic shutter. However, most dSLR sensors don't have that capability at this time. And there are small issues with electronic shutters. There are many ways to do it. The cheap ways have problems. Google "rolling electronic shutter" and read. Most P&S cameras have a rolling shutter. Quality concious dSLR buyers will not like this method.

That leaves the more expensive "global" or "frame" shutter. It is more expensive because it requires an additional transistor at each photosite. That may sound trivial, but if a normal CMOS photosite has 2 transistors, that is a 50% increase in transistors. Even worse, it increases the non-photosensitive area at each photosite by about 50%. That negatively impacts light-gathering capability and this increases noise. Then there is the patent position. Companies like Kodak have a massive patent portfolio. Some of these patents cover various ways to implement "global" shutters! Perhaps Japan, Inc. is simply waiting until these patents expire?

The second reason re blocking light from the sensor is probably more germaine.

ALL cameras, even P&S types, have a "shutter" to block light from the sensor. This is required because if light is continuously shining on the sensor, all the data would have to be transferred SIMULTANEOUSLY. Most sensors transfer data serially. To keep the photosites from continuing to accumulate photons, cameras close the shutter during the period when data is being transfered. A sensor with a "global" electronic shutter helps, but all Silicon areas that are un-masked generate electrons when photons hit them. These "free" electrons can decrease the signal-to-noise ratio.

The shutter also helps protect the sensor from dust.

Evidently, there's a new type of camera, called an "EVIL" camera (Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens) that combines the smaller size of the point-and-shoot cameras with most of the functionality of the DSLR.

Here's a quicky review of the Panasonic Lumix GF1, from Wired:

Quote:
Panasonic has joined Olympus in offering a mirror-less, viewfinder-less interchangeable-lens camera with the big Micro Four Thirds sensor. The 12.1 megapixel sensor in the Lumix GF1 is the same one found in Panasonic’s tiny “DSLR” style G1.

The main differences between this and the Olympus EP-1 Pen are the looks (plain, black or colored aluminum instead of fancy faux-leather), a pop-up flash (the Olympus has none), size (the Panasonic is “artistically flat”). Other standard features include image stabilization, face detection and HD video recording and ISO of up to 3200.

The camera uses existing Micro 4/3 lenses and has a focal-plane shutter.

DPReview.com review of the camera (Oct 2009), here. They describe it as a "G1 in a smaller package (without the viewfinder and articulated screen, obviously)"

Interesting stuff!


BMFin

Jun 9, 2010, 4:02 PM
Post #72 of 76 (521 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

DSLR's do have shutters. They're not necessary, but are indeed part of the camera. Perhaps you are thinking of the leaf shutter, as opposed to the plane shutter? DSLR's don't have leaf shutters.

There are also DSLR´s with leaf shutters.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 9, 2010, 5:09 PM
Post #73 of 76 (509 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! Didn't know that.
I guess I don't consider medium and large format digital cameras as "DSLR's" but if there are small format DSLR's that have leaf shutters, that's news to me.
Which one(s)?


BMFin

Jun 10, 2010, 2:11 AM
Post #74 of 76 (489 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

On top of my hat at least the hasselblad lineup and Leica S2 uses leaf shutters.

They are both most definetly DSLR´s

The term SLR (single lens reflex camera) refers to the way the viewfinder is. SLR has a mirror that makes it possible to see the same composition from the viewfinder that you get when you press the shutter.

A rangefinder camera on the otherhand is not an SLR because it doesnt use this mirror mechanism..


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jun 10, 2010, 6:33 AM
Post #75 of 76 (458 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I know what "SLR" means. My angle earlier is that I don't consider medium and large format cameras in the context of the discussion we were having.
You're right, the Leica S2's (which I didn't know had a dual shutter system til your post) are in the same format category that we're discussing.
Thanks for the info! I learned something new this morning.


BMFin

Jun 10, 2010, 4:48 PM
Post #76 of 76 (308 views)
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Re: [DSE] Canon 7D- 18MP/8fps/full HD Video/$1900 [In reply to] Can't Post

Leica is also medium format btw.. Smile



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