Jul 17, 2009, 10:37 AM
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GoPro Hero HD!
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I've been quite impressed with how easy it is to get very cool angles with the GoPro Hero. Unfortunately, the video quality is horrific (I'm an HD snob now), so I've not considered it anything more than a cool toy.
Release says it'll be $299. I just got a CX100 for $439. I'd imagine the lens and imager (Exmor) is much higher quality on the CX100, so I'm not sweating my purchase at this point. But if the lens/imager is half-way decent on the GoPro, and it shoots in 1080p, it could be an interesting contender due to its smaller size and thus, easier ability to mount in creative locations.
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 17, 2009, 11:37 AM
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According to information from GoPro, the compression rate will still keep it less than optimal, but with the resolution there......it can easily be fractalled up...
Hypoxic is actually a dealer with GoPros. I'll try to get a sample as soon as possible. I too thought the SD version was a neat camera, but the quality was pretty damn bad. Hopefully they also fixed the black dot sun problem.
-Trunk
DSE (D 29060)
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Jul 17, 2009, 10:32 PM
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Hypoxic is actually a dealer with GoPros. I'll try to get a sample as soon as possible. I too thought the SD version was a neat camera, but the quality was pretty damn bad. Hopefully they also fixed the black dot sun problem.
-Trunk
That's a relatively "easy" fix, I'm betting they don't have any dynamic range restriction (which is dumb, because they'd get a better image with narrower latitude). I had forgotten you'd become a dealer. Justin rocks, yeah? They're really good people. One of those situations where my opinion was swayed 180 from my original (I thought their products all sucked, based on an early product experience). They are 110% a rock-solid company to deal with.
Hypoxic is actually a dealer with GoPros. I'll try to get a sample as soon as possible. I too thought the SD version was a neat camera, but the quality was pretty damn bad. Hopefully they also fixed the black dot sun problem.
-Trunk
I was curious about the black hole sun issue, and release date for the HD GoPro... so I e-mailed their tech support, and heres' the answer I got:
From: support@goprocamera.com Sent: Jul 28, 2009 5:15 PM To: wxyz@mindspring.com Subject: RE: GoPro Case 08642: When will the HD version be available?
Hi Chris,
Sorry, but at this point we do not yet have an estimated release date for the HD HERO. The image sensor that will be used in the HD HERO will be able to accurately represent direct sunlight.
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
I'd seen that, but the first "review" is as valuable as the paper it's printed on. No discussion of dynamics, no discussion of imager, noise, bitrate, etc. This guy got a first look, but it appears he wasn't allowed to edit or transfer. The information he posted has been available from Justin at GP for a while now. I'm expecting it to be a decent cam, and they say they've got the dynamic range issue licked...but at the expense of what? If anything?
And I must admit, if it's genuinely good quality, I'm going to be a bit pissed off.
Camera helmet - $500 Various RAM mounts - $75 CX100 - $430 Opteka 0.3x - $100 Hypeye D - $100 CX100 Box - $100
If this little bitch can accomplish essentially the same thing (cool mounting positions, good quality footage, wide angle), with more variety in mounting locations (due to size/weight), I'll shell out for it, but I won't like it.
Please Spot, tell me something bad about the GoProHD to make me feel better...
(This post was edited by bdrake529 on Sep 22, 2009, 2:04 PM)
You're not seeing it on a big screen. That's where you'll see the macro-blocking of this, and other small format mp4 cams. Don't be pissed, you're in the best situation. Macroblocking is bad enough in AVCHD as it is. Very wide lens plus mp4 shrunk down for the web=good picture. Same thing on a 42" panel...not so good.
Still, this camera is a must-buy already. With my plethora of mounts, I can get quality CX100 footage and throwing in the occasional shot from the GoProHD (in really creative mounting spots) won't look so bad.
DSE (D 29060)
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Sep 22, 2009, 3:02 PM
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I think you oughta put a mount inside your container so we can see those lines lifting out. Maybe a mount on your chin cup with the stickum tape. j/k Serious about the in-canopy, even if it's just for 7 seconds from deploy to ground.
It'll cut well as long as it's not a primary view cam. Because it's 4:2:0 colorspace, it'll allow you to match it up reasonably well using Color.
The "jello" (horizontal macroblocking) is expected from low-bitrate, non-profiled MP4. the 720p is pretty nice with 60p, but the slo mo only makes the horizontal look more strange.
PhreeZone (D License)
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Sep 22, 2009, 3:46 PM
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Nigel can you get a picture of the bracket? I could not find anything on their webpage. To mount it on a helmet with the standard box it seems to have a lot of snag points.
Nigel can you get a picture of the bracket? I could not find anything on their webpage. To mount it on a helmet with the standard box it seems to have a lot of snag points.
cheers, Marcus
According to Reinier at RCB-Lab, which manufactures the Zkulls, they do have a system, but they are currently refining it as they aren't 100% happy with it.
In the meantime, they do offer this option that can done with the Zkulls:
(Written by Reinier)
I attach you pictures and you will see how easy you can convert the GoPro mounting foot (which is included in the Hero pack) at close to 0 expense.
All that's needed:
- remove the double sided scotch from the foot - place the foot on the Zkulls Insert - mark the 4 holes for attachment - drill a slight sink at the top side of the foot (so the camera can slide into the mount as it's designed) - attach it with 4 screws - sand down the corners of the Hero Foot (it is bend downwards and it needs to be flat at the bottom of the foot so the ZkullsTM can click in) done
We are waiting for the HD to come out to see if the plastic case is still the same. If the case changes, we might be able to offer a different economic attachment solution.
The LAB is just finishing another solution to front mount the HERO using the top mounted ZkullsTM. This one will hopefully be done by the end of next week.
I've been looking around for a comparison of the Contour and Gopro HDs. http://pointofviewcameras.com/...inst-the-competition says that the Gopro uses mp4 while the Contour uses H.264. Would that reduce (eliminate?) the problem? H264 is a proper HD format isn't it?
DSE (D 29060)
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Sep 29, 2009, 6:22 PM
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mp4 part 10 and h.264 are the same thing. Bitrate is the key. Neither camera is locked into a bitrate because they're avoiding the AVCHD moniker/compression, which is based on mp4 pt 10/h.264.
Macroblocking is small blocks of pixels that 'square' up or create pixilation due to compression artifacts, or the camera not being able to keep up with movement, high contrast, or combinations of both. It can be particularly ugly in low light.
Cool, I think I know what you're talking about then.
So is there a certain specification that would indicate whether the picture quality on one is better than the other or for a compact HD camera, are they likely to be pretty similar in the end?
You don't need to do anything that complicated. GoPro has a tripod mount. Check their website. With the tripod mount all you will have to do is screw it to the Zkulls. Simple.
You don't need to do anything that complicated. GoPro has a tripod mount. Check their website. With the tripod mount all you will have to do is screw it to the Zkulls. Simple.
Cool, I think I know what you're talking about then.
So is there a certain specification that would indicate whether the picture quality on one is better than the other or for a compact HD camera, are they likely to be pretty similar in the end?
Last question first. No. They will likely not be similar in the end.
It all boils down to the efficiency of the encoder, the bitrate, the imager size/quality, and the lens in combination with each other. Your cell phone is likely h.264, and likely has a 3-6Mbps rate. Stick a better lens, better encoder, and better imager in that same size space as a dedicated camera, you'll likely have a significantly better image.
Unfortunately, h.264/mpg4 that isn't AVCHD doesn't carry a minimum standard and the first 50,000 licenses are free to the manufacturer, so the quality can absolutely suck or absolutely shine.
From everything I have been reading, given the size and versatility of this cam, for 300$ you really can't beat it, and comparing it to a 600$ camera with a 200$ lens is pushing it a bit. Like someone said, unless you are planning on viewing the raw footage on a 50" in screen, image quality(seen by the human eye) will be exactly the same as any camera you can get your hands on when put on a computer and put on the internet. If you look at their website and check out the specs page, they are obviously not afraid to reveal the capabilities of the new HD Hero. With that, I am pre ordering very soon, perfect little camera, I am not doing any professional videoing, just getting footage of my usual jumps so it fits the profile for something I want. I mean 300$ or over a grand? lol
Also...I know the recommended jump number to fly camera, and am fully aware of the sticky topic, so lets leave this to discussion of the camera, and not on who should jump one.
-Evo
DSE (D 29060)
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Oct 1, 2009, 3:17 PM
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From everything I have been reading, given the size and versatility of this cam, for 300$ you really can't beat it, and comparing it to a 600$ camera with a 200$ lens is pushing it a bit. Like someone said, unless you are planning on viewing the raw footage on a 50" in screen, image quality(seen by the human eye) will be exactly the same as any camera you can get your hands on when put on a computer and put on the internet. If you look at their website and check out the specs page, they are obviously not afraid to reveal the capabilities of the new HD Hero. With that, I am pre ordering very soon, perfect little camera, I am not doing any professional videoing, just getting footage of my usual jumps so it fits the profile for something I want. I mean 300$ or over a grand? lol
Also...I know the recommended jump number to fly camera, and am fully aware of the sticky topic, so lets leave this to discussion of the camera, and not on who should jump one.
-Evo
~ no one has compared it to any camera quality. The question above was clearly about technology, and bottom line is that if you don't have some rudimentary understanding of the technology, you're going to be challenged when it comes time to edit/output.
~ No, it will NOT be "the same image quality" as most camcorders currently in use. ESPECIALLY on a 50" monitor. It's absurd to remotely suggest it is.
~ published specs don't mean anything. Only a sucker believes what marketing tells them. Until I've had hands-on with the camera, you could tell me it makes Viper pale and will make my coffee. Panasonic announced a new HD camcorder that was hyped for two years. When it shipped, users found it had an imager smaller than a PAL SD camcorder. For example, do you know the actual peak VBR of the Hero HD? What size is the CMOS? What encoder technology are they using since it's not AVCHD? It's potentially 12Mbps, but as their own page says, "the bitrate may change." 12Mbps in AVCHD is barely passable, let alone MP4. Yes, the camera *appears* to be really promising. At one time, I looked very promising to my exwife.
~ From what you've been READING, vs what you've actually seen, touched, edited, output and know anything about are very disparate. I've read one helluva lot about skysurfing and CRW, but I'm not ready to go out and attempt either one.
~It's great you are aware of the recommended jump number to fly a camera, and odd you're so cavalier about safety with a camera. If you've read the sticky, then you've read from at least 20,000 jumps experience telling you that it's not the camera thats the problem.
No I agree 100% Really don't know until you've got yours hands on it, I was just making assumptions based on the information currently available. Who knows it could be a lemon, but then again, that wouldn't be good for business, especially for a company whose target population is relatively small in number. It could not live up to all the hype, and not be exactly what everyone expected, but I do not forsee any major complications, it would be economic suicide on their part. Anyways, Ill let ya know once ive played with it :-P
Like I said, I am aware of the sticky, know the danger is not just in camera itself....I am not ignoring the thousands of experienced jumpers, its a choice, and one made with modest intent for a good while to come.
now that the ContourHD will soon be a 1080p camera, i think it too looks very nice! 1080 @ 30 fps 720 @ 60 fps
and if understand the mail correct i got this morning, you can (soon) mount a filter if you need. perhaps more wideangle?
Quote:
It gets better. In November we have a new Lens Kit coming that not only includes a lens repair kit, but enables you to screw on standard 37mm filters. That means you can use a standard camera filter on your ContourHD or ContourHD1080p to adjust for lighting conditions on the go!
the quality seems good http://www.vholdr.com/contourhd/videos and the much lower profile of the ContourHD compared to the GoPro makes the choise easy... well for now
We’re expecting to start receiving stock of the HD HERO at the end of this week. We can not guarantee any shipping/delivery dates for the HD HERO. We’ll be working hard to get through all orders as quickly as possible. Once your order ships, you’ll receive an email with your tracking info.
Well I guess the early-bird gets f*cked. I ordered mine from pointofviewcameras.com (they were the first site offering pre-orders, even before GoPro.com, to my knowledge) the last week of September and mine probably won't arrive until next Friday. Not in time for the Elsinore Wingsuit event, which was my primary plan for the camera.
My email says "Gopro has finally communicated a firm date that they will be shipping the cameras to us. They will ship the Helmet HEROs to us this Friday, and we should receive them towards the end of next week. We should be in a position to ship them late next week."
This from helmetcamcentral.com.
HW
(This post was edited by howardwhite on Nov 5, 2009, 3:50 PM)
Well I guess the early-bird gets f*cked. I ordered mine from pointofviewcameras.com (they were the first site offering pre-orders, even before GoPro.com, to my knowledge) the last week of September and mine probably won't arrive until next Friday. Not in time for the Elsinore Wingsuit event, which was my primary plan for the camera.
Oh well....
for some reason my tracking number still wont load. comes up with "tracking number could not be located" Whens the wingsuit record attempt?
Saturday (Nov 7) through Friday (Nov 13). I'm talking with pointofviewcameras.com to ship overnight directly to the DZ, but if it doesn't get to them until Thursday, it'll probably be too late.
Just ordered mine from GoPro's Website. This is what was sent to me on my confirmation email.....
Based on today's date, the current *estimated* shipping window for your particular order is: week starting 23-Nov-2009 For update-to-date information, you can visit http://gopro.com/hdshippingstatus
Mine was shipped Thursday and I picked it up this morning. Flew with it at ZHills. I love it, great little recorder.
Uses an internal Li-ion battery rechargeable via mini USB. Which is great since I have a car charger for that for my phone. Seemed to shoot really nice video too, but then I've never shot 1080p before so I can't really compare it to anything else.
Mine was shipped Thursday and I picked it up this morning. Flew with it at ZHills. I love it, great little recorder.
Uses an internal Li-ion battery rechargeable via mini USB. Which is great since I have a car charger for that for my phone. Seemed to shoot really nice video too, but then I've never shot 1080p before so I can't really compare it to anything else.
Can you please post up a video of the quality of the video?
I have a server to upload to if you wish. Email me at niteqwill (at) GMAIL dot com
Can you please post up a video of the quality of the video?
Yeah, here's some raw footage I'll put up on Amazon S3 for a bit. All the vids have 2-3 mins of "sitting in an airplane", because I haven't changed up my gear up routine yet to work with a camera.
This jump was done at about 3 in the afternoon. Sunny skies, good light.
Here's a jump I did the next day. Around noon, complete cloud coverage at 6k that I had to go through(was very thick too). The other guy was flying one of those Sony HD CX cameras and while the picture quality up top was better, after passing through the clouds he had heavy condensation on the lens. The go pro cleared up pretty well.
The 3 jumps I did on it Saturday didn't see the battery life go down from full. So figure 20-30 mins recording that day with it still being fully charged. I didn't pre-charge the battery after I got it in the morning. It came fully charged.
I've never shot video before and didn't have any problem using the device. Angle size in 1080p mode(127 degrees) seems to work really well. I don't use a ring sight or anything. Just bought a hurricane 2 freefly helmet, slapped the camera on top and started jumping.
Nice. The sunset jump is SRGB on the top end and computer RGB on the top end, or appears to be, based on laptop scopes and the latitude in the shot. Very interesting. Never seen that done intentionally before, but if that's their intent, it's pretty smart.
After a little bit of time with it, it's pretty much what I expected. A full review forth coming. In low light, the suck factor is pretty high. We could see nasty artifacting and macroblocking in 720p60 mode, just inside the aircraft until the sunlight hit the fabric. Noise galore, too. but... The outside footage is well done, grades are sufficiently squished, whites are whte while blacks are not super black. For the dollar, nice job.
Played with it more this weekend. Last weekend it was reporting a full charge when I was done so I didn't charge it or anything over the week and it died on the 1st jump Saturday.
After about 1 hour of charging on a laptop it was reporting a full charge again and worked fine for the rest of the day(maybe 45-60 mins of video).
So, it might be like a neptune in that the battery is either full or dead. But it charges quickly and you can charge it off of any USB which is pretty universal.
I just did two jumps with the GoPro Hero HD set to 720p60 and I really like the picture quality. My only problem is that I can't figure out a way to edit it! I am running windows 7 64 and Vegas 8.1 and Vegas won't open the GoPro HD's MP4 files. I've tried a slew of free converters but nothing is retaining the original quality. Anyone having any luck? (aside from Macs running final cut pro)
DSE (D 29060)
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Nov 20, 2009, 7:15 PM
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I'd been using VLC to watch quicktime files...now I've got QT installed and Vegas is playing nicely with the GoProHD. A 2-minute fix for a problem that vexed me for hours...you continue to amaze me. Thanks for all you do for this sport...
-Trevor
DSE (D 29060)
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Nov 20, 2009, 11:38 PM
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You're most welcome. I wish I could fly as well as I know Vegas. As a side note to anyone reading this thread and using Vegas (and other NLE's that don't install the QT installer), for viewing .tif and QT-wrapped files in Vegas, you'll need to have the Quicktime authoring tools (free) or QT Pro (29.00) installed to use the GoProHD or the ContourHD camcorders. Vegas doesn't have a QT decoder license, and they shouldn't install one, IMO. Vegas essentially "picks up the phone" and calls the decoder only when needed. This way it's not running in the background all the time. Helps keep Vegas small and fast, which is why you'll notice NEVER having to render for preview. Set your preview to Preview/Auto for best results with the GoProHD. Depending on your processor speed, you SHOULD see full frame rate at this setting.
the footage i have uploaded to my computer comes out choppy on the 1080p mode. Anyone know why Windows media player plays at full fps with no sound and why quick time plays with sound and skips all over the place?
DSE (D 29060)
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Nov 22, 2009, 10:48 PM
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If I understand you correctly, you have both QT and WMP on the same computer and one is choppy and the other isn't? Other than look ahead, I couldn't offer any explanation.
First thing to look at is any background apps. What you're describing is common, but I've never seen it this way. In other words, QT usually plays smooth while Windows Media can't cache and decode it fast enough. You might wanna try VLC player as well.
GoPro specs out minimum class 4 SD card. In other words what speed is the SD card you are using? I just worked with a friends GoPro HD he just bought but the card he ordered (class 6) from another vendor was not in yet so we used my class 2 card to check out the unit and after copying to PC and playing back we experienced the same issues you are. After rendering the file in Vegas 9 it played perfect. I asked my friend if his class six card came in but have not heard back. My thoughts that night were that the class 2 card we had to try out had write speeds that may have been too slow? Just my initial thoughts. Without testing with the faster card on the same camera I can not say for sure if that was what we had run into.
I have the same problem- I saved the file to the desk top then tried to play it with QT and WMP. QT just skips and WMP plays it but with no sound. Real player and DivX player also skip.
According to Quicktime Pro, the Mp4 file off the HeroHD uses the Ambarella AVC Encoder. I can import this file into Final Cut Express, and scrub through the video, but it won't play in a sequence without rendering.
I use an HC5, which captures in Apple Intermediate Codec and a CX100 which FCE "captures" (log and transfer) into AIC too. AIC plays in a sequence in FCE without the need for rendering. So I'm thinking it would be best to convert my HeroHD files to AIC.
Is this a good idea? Is there something faster than QT Pro for doing this conversion?
First test footage from this morning. Shot in 720p mode. Converted to AIC via QT pro, then sped up 700% in FCE, output as H.264 with 5000kb/s limit. Uploaded to Vimeo and whatever conversion they do. Original Mp4 is sharper as the conversion process I used did soften the footage slightly, as well as remove some detail and add some artifacting. But even the original was "bloomy" and a little too soft for my liking. Still, can't beat the size, price, and ease of mounting. Not a bad supplemental camera.
Could anyone tell me how does it compare to the contourHD 1080p? I saw a side-by-side review on Engadget but I'm still unable to make up my mind even though it seems the Gopro HD has a better picture quality.
On the other hand I think the contourHD form factor is better.
Tough choice!
DSE (D 29060)
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Nov 25, 2009, 8:49 AM
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I don't see it as a tough choice at all. The GoPro has a better imager, better lens, and cleaner image. Additionally, while it's form factor isn't ideal, it does handle some serious hammering. Saw one torn from a helmet during a very bad landing. it rolled 50 feet on asphalt and recorded every bit if it. the only thing I've noticed with the GoPro that's annoying is the gamma setup. That's easily fixed in post.
The HD Hero? Definitely. Though you should make sure the DZ you're going to shoot for doesn't require a specific model camera for compatibility reasons.
So my batch of GoPro H's arrived today and same problem. I have tried VLC-Stuck in first frame, plays sound fine though. OT-Skips a split second consistently as if you are taking continuous photos.
Put it on the Sony Bravia direct from the camera via composites and it is totally bad ass! Awesome camera for what it is, so naturally i took my R6 out to see how fast we could get the bike on camera.
I 100% believe that it is the computer not being able to process it. I first thought it was the memory card, as my memory card is shit, but after seeing it on the big screen, it has to come down to the USB and not being abl to get the information out fast enough and the media device to process it fast enough??? Dont know much about that sort of stuff, but it seems logical.
I am going to try Real HD media player in a minute and see if that changes things. I played with the output settings on VLC and it just got worse. QT had the best hope but i am no running QT HD
Ok-after a bit of trolling the internet I found this-http://www.digital-digest.com/...fdvd_test_page2.html I updated the codec on WMP using this method and it plays the files super smooth. Still have a prob with the sound-seems to play audio 2sec out of sync with the video. So i'm looking for a new sound card driver this morn.
(This post was edited by carve on Nov 27, 2009, 2:02 PM)
I had the same problem. although when i played it with the vlc player, it worked fine when playing speed was below 1.
then I installed the k-lite-codec pack. using the integrated media player classic solved all my problems. its quite a cool tool. you can also change playing speeds if you want to watch slow-motion etc.
My first actual field test of HD GoPro. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMWmy9SnVPg It was shot in 1080, converted to Quicktime, then uploaded to YouTube without any post processing.
For the money, it's a great little gadget. It's not quite as colorful or sharp as Sony, but heck, for the money and size, it really can not be beat.
I had to use Final Cut to flip the image vertically since I mounted the camera upside down. GoPro is supposed to have a firmware update for it so I don't have to, but it is not on their website yet.
On a related topic, what would be the best on/off indicator light for it? I prefer not drilling any hole through the waterproof case.
4D Bill
DSE (D 29060)
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Nov 30, 2009, 12:22 AM
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Nice piece. Interesting you'd comment that you find it less colorful. IMO, it's more saturated (scopes bear this out too) but "colorful" is a subjective issue. It's certainly not as sharp nor contrasted, but for the price...it's a great cam (as you say). They're also tough as nails. Saw one do well over a dozen tumbles when torn from a helmet during a botched swoop (in the non-waterproof case). Dusted it off, blew out the card port, and it was playing nicely.
Keep in mind that as you convert to QT, it's a process. Technically a postprocess. Depending on which codec you used in the conversion to QT, there are any number of small weirdnesses that can occur during transcode.
Unless Trunk or someone else has taken one apart and figured out an on/off indicator via either the USB port (I don't know that it passes this information) or can figure out a hack for the internal indicator, I don't know that you'll find an external on/off indicator.
As far as I've seen they have super sticky tape on the mount, you just peel off the protective paper off it, place the mount over the helmet area you want and press it so it glues to it.. Then attach the camera to the mount..
Do you have some photos of helmets with gopros on? can i use the mounting stuff in the gopro box or do i have to be more "creative"?
i dont want to watch my brand new gopro falling to earth after my first opening ;)
It comes with mounting points that use a 3M adhesive that will stick to your helmet. It won't fall off. One of the guys at ZHills had to put in an insane amount of work with tools to remove one. The plastic that attaches to the camera case will probably fail first.
@DSE: Got a guy at my DZ that jumps a CX7 and I've noticed the colors on that look much "richer". Just deeper, more vivid. Colors pop more which makes my gopro look a little washed out in comparison. No complaints though, the gopro is like a third the cost.
@DSE: Got a guy at my DZ that jumps a CX7 and I've noticed the colors on that look much "richer". Just deeper, more vivid. Colors pop more which makes my gopro look a little washed out in comparison. No complaints though, the gopro is like a third the cost.
I really don't understand why you all are comparing cameras like sony cx100-105 to cameras like GoPro HD / Countour HD... There's really no comparison at this moment, no point in trying to compare... Really funny to read all those comments that GoPro isn't up to par with full fledged cams like Sony.. It was never made to be on par!
DSE (D 29060)
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Nov 30, 2009, 10:47 AM
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@DSE: Got a guy at my DZ that jumps a CX7 and I've noticed the colors on that look much "richer". Just deeper, more vivid. Colors pop more which makes my gopro look a little washed out in comparison. No complaints though, the gopro is like a third the cost.
I really don't understand why you all are comparing cameras like sony cx100-105 to cameras like GoPro HD / Countour HD... There's really no comparison at this moment, no point in trying to compare... Really funny to read all those comments that GoPro isn't up to par with full fledged cams like Sony.. It was never made to be on par!
Maybe once you start flying a camera, you'll understand better. The GoProHD is a very valid comparison to the CX100, for example. Maybe you can tell us a few of the reasons why?
Do you have some photos of helmets with gopros on? can i use the mounting stuff in the gopro box or do i have to be more "creative"?
Here's a picture of the GoPro HD on my helmet. Yes, yes, bring it on. My helmet is big and ugly! But the proof is in the pudding. It is super stable takes great videos. Besides, it has the world's fastest buckling system -- a seat belt from my Toyota! I was nervous about the sticky 3M tape by itself, but it seems to be very secure, and I am going to chance it and leave it alone and hope for the best. Also, note the padding. I unscrew the case to take out the unit. When I am done dubbing, I put it back, press the case against the padding as much as possible and tighten. It works great.
So on a short note, we had one gopro HD go in today and it was still recording when we got to it. Thankfully the bathtub took a good amount of the impact but it still recorded. We also tried to replicate the same scene and ended up trashing 2 GoPro HDs and possibly the footage in the process. I've done a bunch of work with these in the past few days and as soon as we finish throwing these tables out of the skyvan, I'll provide some screen shots and some other information.
The lens on the plastic case is pretty bad and if you live in a dry climate you may just want to mount it outside of the box. I believe some of the extreme over exposure that I have seen from it upon exit/in the plane is from this imperfect lens. I'll share these in the next day or two but in the meantime don't do anything rash.
On an end note, did my first garbage day today and still grinning ear to ear.
(This post was edited by bomb420 on Nov 30, 2009, 8:55 PM)
Here is the way I mounted my GoPro to a standard (open face) skydiving helmet. This mount I made myself but you could also use the Tripod Hero mount pn#GTRA30 or the mounts in the Grab Bag Hero pn#GGB30. I have used this mount on 50 jumps and have found it to be unobtrusive mounted low on the helmet. Also with the GoPro Wide with its 170 deg. field of view you don't need a ring sight for capturing your jumps. The 3M adhesive works good but thoroughly clean the spot where it will go, remove any trace of mold release, grease, oil or puke then mount and clamp for 24 hrs. Also notice that I didn't use the supplied wing bolt, I replaced it with a metric allen head bolt (6x1.0x25) that eliminates a snag point. The different mounts can be seen at http://skydivingopro.com/osc/images/Mounts/
Do you have some photos of helmets with gopros on? can i use the mounting stuff in the gopro box or do i have to be more "creative"?
i dont want to watch my brand new gopro falling to earth after my first opening ;)
It comes with mounting points that use a 3M adhesive that will stick to your helmet. It won't fall off. One of the guys at ZHills had to put in an insane amount of work with tools to remove one. The plastic that attaches to the camera case will probably fail first.
@DSE: Got a guy at my DZ that jumps a CX7 and I've noticed the colors on that look much "richer". Just deeper, more vivid. Colors pop more which makes my gopro look a little washed out in comparison. No complaints though, the gopro is like a third the cost.
I used the mounting pad with 3M to glue the socket on my helmet. I did 3 BASE jumps with it last weekend with one very hard opening and it holds very well.
Yeah I was unsure about the 3m tape at first, but after these past few days, I got to say that stuff is stupidly strong. I've seen the mounts break before that tape pops off. Just saying.
So brief tally: 4 Go Pro HDs went in, 2 still work, 2 are dead, 1 mp4 file did not seem to complete properly, 1 SD card appears corrupted.
So in this very scientific research, I conclude, if your go pro HD goes in, you have a 50/50 chance of reusing the camera.
Everyone was totally stoked about the footage. I unfortunately cannot post it, but I'm sure it will surface in the next few months on TV shows, commercials, etc.
What SD cards are you all using? my "maxflash" class 6 card has trouble recording anything greater than 720p (30fps). camera just stops recording after a couple of seconds!
What SD cards are you all using? my "maxflash" class 6 card has trouble recording anything greater than 720p (30fps). camera just stops recording after a couple of seconds!
Been recording at 1080p just fine. I've only had 1 issue with my camera and that's if I don't charge it the night before a weekend of jumping it'll run out of juice and not record on one of the jumps. It'll go from displaying a full charge to no charge. I've just been charging it each night when I'm jumping.
Also the mounting is loose from where the camera snaps in. Hasn't been an issue on wingsuit jumps because the air pressure is 1 directional on the camera, but another guy at the DZ has had issues with the camera shaking on FF jumps. Wedging something in where the camera housing snaps into the mount fixed that though.
The embed is 720p, but you can download the full 1080 version at the bottom of the page.
I put the above together with Super LoiloScope, which I'm sure no one here has heard of before. http://loilo.tv/product/1/desc
It's really easy to work with and uses CUDA for the encoding, which is nice if you run a NVidia card. A 5 min 1080p vid takes about 7 mins to encode on my laptop.
I am going to start jumping a camera soon.. I really have no aspiration to become a professional vidiot, or join the ranks of people like Norman Kent any time ever. Basically my goals for jumping a camera are to 1) have fun 2) document my jumps 3) edit together skydiving videos 4) give myself and friends something to watch
Right now I'm kind of torn between spending a bunch of money on a legit camera helmet and CX100, or just going with the Hero HD. Can I accomplish those goals with the Hero as a primary camera? I hear and see a lot of people using it as a secondary toy...
The picture quality online looks good from what I've seen online.. How does the footage look when played on a big screen? The price with the hero is definitely right, and the variety of angles is cool too. Does mounting this low profile camera reduce the snagging hazard?
DSE (D 29060)
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Dec 5, 2009, 1:02 PM
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given your goals, the GoProHD is a great option. It's not a LESSER snag point but rather a GREATER snag point unless you take some steps to make it smaller profile. Given that it doesn't sit flush on the helmet, the mounting system could create a snag, but the redeeming factor there is that you'll likely snap off the camera at the mount in the event of a bad opening. Quality is fair on this camera, and great as a crash cam.
A new Lithium-ion battery will benefit from an initial "conditioning" of the battery. For the first 3 charge cycles, fully charge the battery overnight and allow it to fully discharge before recharging. Once conditioned, Lithium-ion batteries will perform best when charged at a rate somewhere between a conventional slow charge and a rapid charge. When rapid charging, Lithium-ion batteries require a charger designed to charge Lithium batteries. To achieve a true full charge when rapid charging, the battery needs to be slow charged the last 10-15% of its charge cycle. A Lithium-ion battery may be damaged by extensive overcharging (continuously on a charger for more than 24 hours). To sum up, get a wall charger GoPro pn#AWALC-001(get it here http://skydivingopro.com/osc/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=60) for the first hour of charging then finish up with usb charging for the next hour or so. Hope that helps.
"USING SD CARDS The HD HERO camera is compatible with 2GB, 4GB, 8GB, 16GB, and 32GB capacity SD and SDHC cards. While all speed cards work in the camera, GoPro recommends minimum Class 4 speed cards for reliability when shooting HD video. GoPro’s own testing has shown improved reliability in high vibration activities with name brand SD and SDHC cards." So I would say SanDisc or Kingston.
Anyone have more pics of how their gopro's are mounted? I've been looking around recently, and I really don't like the way that the camera is mounted and exposed on most people's helemts.. I'm talking about those who have a protec like helmet, and the camera mounted on the anterior half of the top shell.
It looks like it is one funneled exit away from being knocked off the helmet and lost. It also just looks bad.
I know it would be tiny... But are there any companies making a box for it like traditional cameras? That way it would be flush with the helmet, and look better. And isn't skydiving really about looking good?
I really ends up being your call. If you plan on being on funnel exits style dive I don't feel 90% camera setups are really protected against that. You'll see lenses ripped off, mounts broken etc.
From our experience we've seen the plastic mount break before the VHB adhesive ever budge. We tried to rip two off on a stunt and the one where we used 80lb test line, the 80lb line broke. On the one we used tandem line, the plastic mount with the VHB, the actual plastic cracked to release the camera.
You could add a lanyard to the camera but then you have the issue if the camera got somehow got wrapped up in your lines upon deployment, the camera released but now you have a lanyard preventing it from clearing. Top mounting these cameras definitely help prevent this from occurring but bad body position, prematures, or spinning non-level reserve fires may pose an entangling issue.
With that said, if you are worried about it on a certain jump, you may just want to leave it on the ground. It comes off in a snap.
Most boxes are going for around 200+ I'm not sure a box is warranted on these cameras.
Perhaps build yourself some Very High density foam blocks that cover up the snag points. This is never a bad idea.
I don't think the goPros look that bad. It's the new style especially when you see airspeed, Red Bull, Arsenal and I'm sure other teams training and using them on a day to day basis.
Check out mounts @http://www.skydivingopro.com/osc/images/Mounts/ make sure you look at how to reduce snag points. Don't just take the GoPro and stick it to the top of your helmet, think as to how you can reduce any snag point. Also consider how to make the camera exit proof. Purchase the Hero Grab Bag mounts pn#GGB30 for more options. The decisions that you make will (hopefully)prevent the loss of the camera or a very scary mal.
I did some photos jumps with Arizona Arsenal and decided to put three Go Pro HDs while doing so to finally make up my mind on the best mode to use. I shot with R2, R4, and R5 modes. You can see the color warmth, clarity, and wide angle differences between the different modes.
My ADD had the better of me and when switching to a different angle on the camera step, I accidentily lost my grip and fell off. It's flipping hillarious and that is also in this edit.
I think if you were using it as primary camera, R5 is perfect. If you want something for capturing a stunt, deployment, etc where you need super wide since you don't know what you're shooting; R4 is good. R4 seems extremely warm, which I find odd. R2 is good for wide angle in 16:9 aspect ratio.
(This post was edited by bomb420 on Dec 11, 2009, 11:39 PM)
EXCELLENT comparison, Mark!! Nicely done. And yeah...when you were describing flipping off the plane on the phone, I just wasn't picturing it right. It's even funnier in video.
Well i had a SD mini 4gd card in the camera thats about 2 years old. Everyone keeps talking about how you need a class 6 card for better performance and quality, so i ordered a kingston 8gb class 6 SDHC ultimate 133x card for about 45 bucks, it will take pictures in the camera but no video...any reason why this better card isnt working with the camera? Really annoying problem right now
No real clue...do you delete or format after it's full? You should always format. Also, it may be that the card says it's rated, but it truly isn't. Try a different card, see if it offers a different result?
No real clue...do you delete or format after it's full? You should always format. Also, it may be that the card says it's rated, but it truly isn't. Try a different card, see if it offers a different result?
weird thing is that I was getting the same effect when the links on page 2 or 3 were still available for download of the raw footage. I did not format it. just popped it in. Ill try that.
It sounds like your computer speed. Is it a laptop? Is it plugged in? My brand new macbook pro 17" dual core badass will stutter sometimes if I am on battery and not in a place with a good network connection. Finding a wireless network drives video crazy I've found. Antivirus and other things may cause your system's performance to degrade.
As for the card. I've been fine with class 4 cards. However I've had issues with microsd->SD type cards. I think with these things it's hit or miss. Someone posted the note they have in their instructions about recommending kingston and another named brand manufacturer's cards.
BTW, I just got off the phone with my GoPro rep and said if you ever see the SOS warning it means the file header was not written properly. If you place the card back into the original camera and see the SOS warning press any key to finalize it properly.
weird thing is that I was getting the same effect when the links on page 2 or 3 were still available for download of the raw footage. I did not format it. just popped it in. Ill try that.
You're having playback issues? It's probably your computer. Check out the below links and see if the 1080p version is jerkier than the lower res ones.
They're all the same video and encoded the same way, just at different resolutions.
There's a guy at my DZ having issues with his vids being jerky to the point where it's hard to edit them. Pretty sure it's his computer too, even though it's a 6 month old $1500 Dell laptop.
DSE (D 29060)
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Dec 15, 2009, 11:01 AM
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This is an OLD song, but be sure no antivirus is running in the background while editing. this comes up so often, it should probably be part of the sticky novel.
During editing processes, nothing should be running in the background, antivirus in particular.
Really looking forward to what cookie comes up with for these cameras. Just popped two in the mail to them today. These things are a instant hit here amongst the B-rel coaches and the Freefliers in Australia. Opening weekend of my shop I saw 12 walk out the door. Another 11 came in today and I only have one left with another 10 coming in tomorrow. Huge hit.
One jumper at the dz has made a plate for his stills camera and his gopro, The go pro has a bolt through the stick on. However, he does not like it with filming andems because the lens is so wide, comments were he had to get in real close.
One problem I am finding is that the stick on, when clipping the camera in there is a bit of room for it to wobble, it is not as tight as it should be, seems to me that over time, this will just stretch to allow more and more wobble.
My GoPro supplier has hooked me up. With each motorsport camera I buy, which i think come with the best accesories as a package, he throws in a vented helmet strap as well. This came in handy over the weekend for attaching it to the foot or the leg if you might fly daffy.
Speaking to a wingsuit manufacturer who has theirs in the mail now, with sch a wide angle lens it is being thought along the lines of making a pocket in the suit at the end of the wing, over the wrist or something, maybe just on the hand, but so you can shoot the view ahead of the flier and at the same time get their head in the shot. Got to work with a lens that wide.
Would really like gopro to have a look at the clip ons not being tight enough. if you clip one into place and then have a look, you will see it wobble. Over time things like this usually get broken in, if it starts like this, it can only get worse.
Overall, awesome piece of equipment and I can see a lot of VRW groups taking to these cameras. If each person had one in a different position, you would come out with some really funky angles.
To those that are not american..... There is a slight issue with pricing. Each country has their own retail price., Each distributor gets a certain percentage off of course, but that percentage is off their countries retail price. Dealer agreements say you can not sell outside of your own country. However, you then look at the USA gopro.com webpage and you will be able to buy from that, but be careful as they have a mandatory $50 usd or something like that shipping and handling charge to try and even it out a bit. I have been told that he warehouses in each country have been battling for at least a year to get the prices sorted out and are now battling for gopro.com to not sell to the public outside of the USA, but with them selling 15,000 cameras direct from their website in a month, i doubt that will happen just so distributors outside the usa can sell a few hundred a year.
Retail price in Australia is $450 AUD. I currently sell them for $350 AUD and that includes the motosport package and the vented helmet strap. Tripod mounts are $20 AUD.
If any of you creative lot come out with shells or anything for helmets, other than for cookie helmets, as they will for sur have their own soon, please let me know as I will be in the market to purchase some stock from you.
Place a piece of gaffer tape on the base of the mount. This helps out the wobble. You can change modes that make the image wider and narrower. Perhaps have your buddy select R5 mode as its narrower. There is a video on our website comparing the wideness of the different modes.
Yeah Gopro's country issues are a PIA but I understand why they do it. -Trunk
Just got told there is a worldwide backlog on the motorsports and helmet HD versions. I just got the last ten apparently in OZ> They now only have Nake ones coming into oz. :(
Seems to me to be a codec issue with the MP4 format and windoze movie maker in vista. You can convert to a different format with this http://majorgeeks.com/...68d2d2eddb3f4db49bac and it seems to work. Quicktime will play the r1 setting video but if you use r5 is does the choppy thing. I don't know if Quicktime Pro fixes that issue on not.
Do they list their resellers somewhere? The only resellers I found near me were 50% more expensive than the listed price.
My guess is that capitalistic mechanism of supply and demand is working as intended in this case... High demand, limited supply. Yes, I bought it directly from GoPro instead. The customs forgot to take out any fee nor add the VAT, so it really ended up being a lot cheaper than the local resellers.
DSE (D 29060)
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Dec 19, 2009, 9:50 AM
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Seems to me to be a codec issue with the MP4 format and windoze movie maker in vista. You can convert to a different format with this http://majorgeeks.com/...68d2d2eddb3f4db49bac and it seems to work. Quicktime will play the r1 setting video but if you use r5 is does the choppy thing. I don't know if Quicktime Pro fixes that issue on not.
The choppiness isn't a Quicktime problem, it's a decode problem on your computer. My dual quad machine plays all modes of the GoProHD without issue. I don't run any antivirus, and keep all background apps closed. MovieMaker won't support the MP4 codec because Microsoft is still hoping they can get VC1 accepted as a standard. MovieMaker in Win7 won't edit the MP4 files, but at the least, Winmedia player now opens them.
Decode issues are almost always tied to one of two issues; -Licensing -CPU speed
CPU speed can be problematic when running antivirus, background apps, network searching for hardware, or general system resources. Or, it just might be older and slower. MPEG decoding is VERY processor intensive. It's one of the reasons Apple doesn't like MPEG much.
I downloaded the Vista Codec Pack and r5 will play fine in media player and media center, its still jumpy in quicktime. Interesting it will only play r1 in quicktime now. Going to take a break now before I take a hammer to this computer...
DSE (D 29060)
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Dec 20, 2009, 10:00 AM
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Motorsports and Helmet Hero are all sold out from manufacturer.
Might see some helmet ones in at end of January.
Australia warehouse ordered 200 naked cameras and they arrive today. I have the last 30. Only problem is that the three arm piece does not come with bag of goodies, so I have purchased all the bits but they have no screws, so off to the hardware store. Also bought 30 bags of attachments and 30 tripod mounts and 30 vented helmet mounts for the foot.
We also have Two gloves being made right now and should have photos before xmas. I am looking for any tandem gopro owners who would like to test one of these gloves before i make the production run. We also have a Foot sock that will fit over shoe or tighten to the bare foot. There is no plastic covering the lens, so quality will be awesome still.
GoPro Naked HD + Vented helmet strap + bag of accessories + tripod mount will be $350 AUD.
Gloves are going to be $15 USD. Sock will be $15USD. Looking for 20 people to test them before i sell them.
DSE- Maybe I can get one to you before NYE for you to have a look at before i start sending samples out?
Anyone who wants to sell their three arm mounts or their suction mount, please let me know.
Now if I buy Quicktime Pro I should be able to do some painless edits?
QT Pro isn't an editing program, it is more of a utility for reading, converting and exporting files. Well worth it IMHO considering it's price and usefulness, but not a replacement for an editing program.
Then you'll need to purchase an NLE software application. Most anything you pay for will edit MP4. Sure, you can convert to use in WMM, but two dramatic experiences take place. A-takes a while to convert, tossing the value of file-based/card based camcorders out the window. B-Significant loss in quality.
Both can be avoided by using any one of a dozen NLE software apps starting at around 60.00 in cost.
Been bought to my attention that some other dealers are annoyed at me. I just want to apoloise as i understand how it may have looked. I was not trying to sell my cameras though, I was trying to let your american customers know that if they are considering one, they better go see you now so they can get one before they miss out with he daily growing backlog on cameras.
I can only sell to Australians anyway, and majority here are not in Australia. Was not mean to be an avertisement, more a go get your camera. Besides, I have none left now and with my dealer prices being the same as USA retail prices, there is no poin any americans buying from outside of america.
Hope that clears it out as I truley would never come into this forum and try and sell my shit, when ther are so many of you guys here who give solid advice day in and day out to this forum and deserve the sales alot more than I do.
You could always try one of the open source programs (some times they're not as good as the ones you pay for but for an average video editor they should offer all you need). You can find a list of them here.
In or out of a case, Ryan? Saw one in a case flip more than 20 times after a swoop gone bad, it's hilarious to watch the video. It broke off the helmet on impact and rolled a long ways. And it survived. Nothing else on the helmet did.
It fell while in the case. The case broke apart on impact. The camera looks almost perfect, aside from a very tiny crack in the bottom left corner, and some very slight chipping of the outside plastic. The camera still had the red light on when I got downstairs to retrieve it. It wouldnt turn off, so I removed the battery. Now the camera won't turn on. Tried plugging it in to the TV, and my laptop. No dice. Unfortunately I think it is gone for good.
Ryan, was the camera out of the case when you found it after the fall? We noticed the cameras that survived our "drop" tests where those that stayed inside of the case with some help from gaffers tape. Almost seems that the impact doesn't kill the cameras, its the getting flung out of the case that does. Just a thought as strange as it may be.
Yeah, it was flung out of the case after the impact. Maybe I will try to secure the case with tape if I decide to buy another. Its strange, aesthetically, the camera looks almost as good as new.. But I guess something on the inside got scrambled. I wonder if it is worth taking it somewhere for repairs?
DSE (D 29060)
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Dec 25, 2009, 4:34 PM
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running on a PC with XP SP3 - when wanting to open file: error msg code -2048: the file ...mp4 can't be opennend because Quicktime can't access the format.
here the info on the file: C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Philippe\Eigene Dateien\Eigene Videos\LSZR.MP4::Output
http://skydivingopro.com/osc/images/Mounts/ doesn't seem to be resolving for me, do you have pics of your mounting on any other site? Or can you just attach them to this thread?
After how easily my gopro snags lines when I'm gathering up my chute after landing I'm convinced this camera is probably the absolute worst thing out there when it comes to being a snag hazard.
I'm not try to advertise, just some help. http://www.skydivingopro.com/osc/images/Mounts/ Remove the supplied "wing bolt" and replace it with an allen screw 6mmx.6x 25mm Also http://www.skydivingopro.com/osc/includes/languages/english/support.htm Click here for SolveigMM AVI Trimmer 1.6.zip
This is a great program for a quick edit of your videos.
Do you have any idea on a time frame? I emailed cookie about that a few weeks ago, and they replied back that they had nothing coming along in the short term.. They mentioned they had just received their first batch of GoPros, but did not indicate if/when they would be offering any boxes for them. I hope someone will build an affordable box for this camera soon though.
Nah mate, They are just in the 'play around' stage with the camera. From what I can tell, they are just figuring out if there is anything they can or should do. Once they make that decision you can rest assure that they will have somehting out fast. With the holidays and everything at the moment things are on slow play with everyone everywhere.
I have my GoPro HD mounted upside down on my helmet. The latest firmware upgrade is supposed to flip the video proper viewing, but it’s not out yet. So.. I have 3 choices. 1. When playing the footage via Windows, simply press Ctrl-Alt-UpArrow flip the whole screen image upside down, and Ctrl-Alt-DownArrow to flip it back. This works on most Windows operating system, but not all. 2. When playing the footage via Mac, use the latest Quicktime Pro and use the command: Show Movie Properties, click on Video Track, choose “Visual Settings” tab, click on clock wise flip/rotate button twice. 3. Use a post processing software, such as Final Cut, to flip the image upside down during editing. This step, however, is not recommended for casual viewing since rendering takes awhile.
Can anyone provide any insight regarding what helmet mount people are using for those 'looking-back-at-your-own-face' type shots? Any pictures out there? Obviously it's a short arm attached to the front/top of the helemt, a RAM mount perhaps? Thanks!
Anyone out there mount a gopro on a standard Nvertigo helmet? I was wondering how to deal with the ribs on that helmet, especially the center/top rib. I was hoping to stick mount bases centered front and rear, and be able to point either forward or backward. Don't want it to be off-center since then it would be tilted.
(This post was edited by meteorman on Feb 16, 2010, 6:30 AM)
yep, arrived that previous day, clipped onto helmet and shot - super easy and quality as good as anything out there ive ever used plus its so small no more stiff necks after hard openings.
i emailed the company, they said that the housing would be on the website shortly, that if i needed one now just to call and order one from them.... tony
i emailed the company, they said that the housing would be on the website shortly, that if i needed one now just to call and order one from them.... tony
Thanks for the info - I have time to wait, but I keep in mind.
Well I got my gopro, looking at the curved mount, The mount does not contour with my bonehead helmet at the edges of the mount. Is that what everyone else is seeing? Hoping to get it mounted and try it out this weekend.
! Awesome !! 
HERO 3 sm.JPG
Nice! 
Definitely cannot beat the price factor. Can't wait to get to the 2-300 jump mark now to jump camera. 
