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Aerodyne zpx experience?

 

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Emu

Jul 5, 2009, 8:41 PM
Post #26 of 72 (5167 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Will a ZPX Pilot 168 fit in a container (TJN Jav) for a 135?


verticalflier  (D 27220)

Jul 9, 2009, 11:58 PM
Post #27 of 72 (4991 views)
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Re: [Emu] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not familiar with Javelin sizing since we rather sell Icon containers, but Pilot 168 ZPX fits in I4 built for 132-150 ZP with no problem. Hope this helps?
LESZEK


OlympiaStoica  (C 38509)

Aug 18, 2009, 2:25 PM
Post #28 of 72 (4686 views)
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Re: [verticalflier] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was going to start a thread about this ... glad I did a search and found that the question has been already asked.

Les ... I believe you're the one helping me out testing the Pilot 188 this weekend. THANK YOU!!! Smile

I am pretty certain I want to buy a Pilot 188 ... the stock one that I like is ZPX ... and after making one mistake going for something "new and unproven", I'm not sure I want to go down that road again.

I wanted to find out about the track record of ZPX, particularly, if there are any differences in flight characteristics (immediately and over time). I gather from this thread that there aren't any ... but this material is too new to say for sure.

So, now I'm stuck making a ... judgement call ...

O


bigway

Aug 18, 2009, 11:46 PM
Post #29 of 72 (4625 views)
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Re: [OlympiaStoica] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just make sure the ZPX will fit in your container. remember the main thing about the zpx is it packs smaller.
remember at the same time that this means it only packs the same size at ICarus and PD canopies as the original Pilot canopy packed larger than them


OlympiaStoica  (C 38509)

Aug 19, 2009, 5:21 AM
Post #30 of 72 (4584 views)
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Re: [bigway] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just make sure the ZPX will fit in your container. remember the main thing about the zpx is it packs smaller.
remember at the same time that this means it only packs the same size at ICarus and PD canopies as the original Pilot canopy packed larger than them

I've had a Icarus Safire2 210 in my container and now I have a PD 190 ... I should be all set in terms of fitting ...

O


bigway

Aug 19, 2009, 6:19 AM
Post #31 of 72 (4571 views)
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Re: [OlympiaStoica] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

So would a normal Pilot 188 ZP would fit in your container? how loose or tight was the sabre 2?
Out of curiosity, Why do you want to buy a ZPX if you dont need it?
Seems like an extra $160-$200 you dont need to spend if you ask me.

To be totally honest with you, I am not sure a Pilot 188 zpx would fit very weel in your container, it may be a tad too small. My first ZPX customer only received their canopies about a month ago so I dont have any experience with the ZPX material but you want to make sure a 188zpx will fit and fit safely.

I would suggest you ask a rigger but they would not know as they would not have much experience with them yet. Then i would suggest you ask a manufacturer that built the container, but again their standard responses from me lately have been they dont know as of yet.

Unless of course you jump a icon container.

What container do you have and what size is the container. You cant really determine it based on a F1-11 canopy in it at the moment or a sabre 2 210 as they both pack very differently depending on age etc and also because all three materials are different.


(This post was edited by bigway on Aug 19, 2009, 6:21 AM)


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2009, 6:25 AM
Post #32 of 72 (4566 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Very, very easy to pack even when brand new, and flew and landed like normal.

I like it!

Smile


JanuszPS  (D 568)

Aug 19, 2009, 7:21 AM
Post #33 of 72 (4536 views)
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Re: [bigway] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
[..]
Out of curiosity, Why do you want to buy a ZPX if you dont need it?
Seems like an extra $160-$200 you dont need to spend if you ask me.
[..]

If I was buying a brand new canopy from Areodyne (assuming that my container is ok for smaller main pack volume as you said) I would defenitely get one made of ZPX for very simple reason - it is much easier to pack than the normal ZP and this is worth for me the extra couple hundred $.
three of four canopies which I ever owned were made of Gelvenor and for that reason I always was hunting for a good value second-hand canopy made of Gelvenor and now I'm happy that it's back.
I am a happy owner of two Cobalt's and not that happy of Sabre 2 ;-).
Janusz


bigway

Aug 19, 2009, 8:28 AM
Post #34 of 72 (4507 views)
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Re: [JanuszPS] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Fair enough. Was not considering that option. Probably cause my back is fucked and i dont pack.

Good point though.


In no way am I saying dont buy a ZPX, I spend 6 figures a year buying aerodyne products and fully support them, I was only asking.


Scootersv

May 24, 2010, 8:31 PM
Post #35 of 72 (3983 views)
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Re: [OlympiaStoica] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just bringing this thread back alive

Recently had a conversation with a well known respected person in canopy designing who's opinion i value a lot. The outcome of the conversation made me curious whether we'd hear more info on (not much has been posted up until now):


I wanted to find out about the track record of ZPX, particularly, if there are any differences in flight characteristics (immediately and over time)


Is there any difference in rigidity of the wing made of standard ZP compare to ZPX flying in different weather condition?
All info shared on the above will be great and much appreciated.


sundevil777  (D License)

May 24, 2010, 10:46 PM
Post #36 of 72 (3965 views)
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Re: [Scootersv] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I sure hope it is all good, mine arrives in a month (Pilot 210 ZPX)Cool

Might as well just 'fess up with what was discussed, come on, what is the internet for if not rumors?

From a design engineer's perspective, I don't think there is much reason for concern. I believe the material mfg is independent of Aerodyne, and I think that the material design engineers know very well the appropriate performance parameters and how to confirm that the short and long term results are good. The performance and durability summary that Aerodyne sent me showed that the new material was tougher and more durable than the standard ZP stuff. Is there some reason to distrust the integrity of the material mfg?

You might have concerns about the long term dimensional stability of the new material. i do not believe that such an issue, or long term porosity for instance would be overlooked. You have the testing of the material mfg, and the canopy mfg to wring out potential trouble, and I will rely on that much more than the speculation of a canopy designer not involved in the development.

If anything, the use of ZP and non-ZP fabric on the same canopy should raise more issues than an all ZPX canopy, but why don't we worry about that? Because the canopy mfgs have thoroughly tested them over lots of jumps.

We don't have anything that shows the optimum reserves have issues, correct? That's an all new material being used for reserves.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on May 24, 2010, 10:48 PM)


Scootersv

May 25, 2010, 12:57 AM
Post #37 of 72 (3930 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not so much interested in durability of the ZPZ material. I'm sure it's durable and has been thoroughly tested. More interested to hear feedback of people who had a chance to compare performance of ZPX Sensei vs ZP Sensei, ZPX Mamba vs ZP Mamba, ZPX Pilot vs ZP Pilot, etc...


Fledgling  (D 28490)

May 25, 2010, 7:24 AM
Post #38 of 72 (3848 views)
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Re: [Scootersv] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not so much interested in durability of the ZPZ material. I'm sure it's durable and has been thoroughly tested.

I recently inspected a ZPX canopy that showed excessive wear after less than 500 jumps.
If I was you I would wait a little longer to see how they hold up in the field.


lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:17 AM
Post #39 of 72 (3541 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped the Sensei 101 last year once, s my personal feel i limited.

but, I've seen this year many canopies that have been jumped with ZPX and spoke with the jumpers.

My conclusion based on what they said and what I saw is that ZPX is not holding up. ZPX is strechy and not that "ZP" as they've markeded/hoped/anticipated. I've seen lightly loaded Pilots to Sensei's @ 2.3 WL that have stalled upon landing, still with forward speed, causing the jumper to run and stumbel or even fall(not hard). It just seems that the ZPX can't keep the same cell pressure as standard ZP.

What I felt on the single jump i did with the Sensei, is that I reached stall point with still enough forward speed that I really had to run it to keep up with it. Others that were used to Velocity canopies experienced the same thing. And no, it wasn't because they've got different flare, it was because the Sensei with ZPX actually stalled before it was shut down.

But I'd guess that with a better coating it will be more airtight and perform better. But then it wouldn't pack that lite.

Another thing I've noticed this summer is that HMA suspension lines will last as little as 250ish jumps on a katana or Velo. I wouldn't recommend HMA for anyone that doesn't practice swooping. It hasn't to do with danger, just that you would have to reline your entire canopy anything between 250-500 jumps. Control lines maybe as little as 120-150 jumps. if you can afford it, then go for it. If not, use spectra on semi-elliptical/rectangular canopies and Vectran for those who like speed and fast canopies, but can't/won't afford reline every 250 jumps.

just my 2 cents.. Smile


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:35 AM
Post #40 of 72 (3527 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another thing I've noticed this summer is that HMA suspension lines will last as little as 250ish jumps on a katana or Velo. I wouldn't recommend HMA for anyone that doesn't practice swooping. It hasn't to do with danger, just that you would have to reline your entire canopy anything between 250-500 jumps. Control lines maybe as little as 120-150 jumps. if you can afford it, then go for it. If not, use spectra on semi-elliptical/rectangular canopies and Vectran for those who like speed and fast canopies, but can't/won't afford reline every 250 jumps.

just my 2 cents.. Smile

That's a generisized statement. HMA lines come in different tensile strengths and with different coatings - you cannot equate non-coated HMA300 lines to coated HMA500.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:39 AM
Post #41 of 72 (3535 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't seen standard PD issued Katana lineset lasting more than 350 jumps here in so-cal.
I've seen them break little as 100 jumps.
However the green HMA lineset made by Mel or Pete does seem to hold better than non-coated ones.

Why aren't PD making lineset with coated HMA????


lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:44 AM
Post #42 of 72 (3523 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

That's a generisized statement. HMA lines come in different tensile strengths and with different coatings - you cannot equate non-coated HMA300 lines to coated HMA500.

I was talking about for PD's non coated 500lb HMA. 300LB is only for those special interested, and they know what they are getting.

The normal skydiver is using 500lb HMA, and I've seen Pilots with them. I can't understand why Pilots are fitted with HMA when HMA is more expensive and doesn't yield any increase in performance compared to Spectra.

I've never jumped or monitored coated HMA, so I can't comment on that.


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:44 AM
Post #43 of 72 (3523 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I haven't seen standard PD issued Katana lineset lasting more than 350 jumps here in so-cal.
I've seen them break little as 100 jumps.
However the green HMA lineset made by Mel or Pete does seem to hold better than non-coated ones.

Why aren't PD making lineset with coated HMA????

I am quite certain (At least as of a few months ago) both Pete and Mel and Simon Wade used the blue coated HMA. The green coated HMA I have only seen from Brian Germain. I could be wrong, but it probably is beside the point :)

As far as PD and coated HMA - having spoken to PD, they mentioned that they ARE using - if you notice their team canopies sometimes have red lines - I was told that they are still testing different materials/coating (at least that's how I understood it), and once they are happy with the product, they will have it available to the general public.


stayhigh  (F 111)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:49 AM
Post #44 of 72 (3519 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

PD team is using vectran lines with orange coating on, which is half the diameter and last half the life of 300 hma.
I guess if they make em thick enough for the public than It might last longer than 400 jumps.

and Pete's lineset was blue color
Germain's lineset were green.


(This post was edited by stayhigh on Aug 19, 2010, 6:51 AM)


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:01 AM
Post #45 of 72 (3512 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you sure those aren't the characteristics of the Sensei compared to what you're used to?

Or inexperienced jumpers pounding in without flaring properly?

I jump a ZPX Pilot 111 for the last 120 jumps, and it flies and lands EXACTLY like my previous ZP Pilots. No difference whatsoever, except it's faster and packs smaller. I do find that I have to take a little more care in getting it neatly in the bag in order to avoid off heading openings, but that might just be due to the D-bag being too small.


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:03 AM
Post #46 of 72 (3509 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was talking about for PD's non coated 500lb HMA. 300LB is only for those special interested, and they know what they are getting.

The normal skydiver is using 500lb HMA, and I've seen Pilots with them. I can't understand why Pilots are fitted with HMA when HMA is more expensive and doesn't yield any increase in performance compared to Spectra.

I've never jumped or monitored coated HMA, so I can't comment on that.

Newer Pilots come with uncoated HMA 500, my old Pilot had uncoated HMA 800.


lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:16 AM
Post #47 of 72 (3500 views)
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Re: [pinkfairy] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Are you sure those aren't the characteristics of the Sensei compared to what you're used to?

Or inexperienced jumpers pounding in without flaring properly?

That were my first thought to. But seeing them in use and speaking with the skydivers I'm confident in my opinion. All of them had more then 500 jumps, but most of them had more then 1500 jumps and competing i FS or FF in this world cup. Some of them changes to their old canopies. But yes, we may discuss a lot how much their individual skills with canopy flying would affect the outcome. I wish I had the opportunity to jump different ZPX and ZP canopies in varoius sizes to see for my self and compare them. That would have been a good way to pass judgment on general level. But in the end we all need to se for our selv and make up our own mind.

I'd really like to try the Sensei in ZP to see if it's just the canopy or the material, but I haven't found anyone around me yet. The Pilot I've flown a lot in various sizes and I remembered that they had different flare characteristics then the Sabre. But they did come to a full stop without issues.


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:59 AM
Post #48 of 72 (3467 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Many very experienced jumpers don't like how the Pilot lands. It's a personal preference, and if you're used to PD canopies, you might not like the Pilot.

My last 350 jumps have been on different sizes of Pilot, and my ZPX Pilot 111 that I have 120 jumps on is by far the best canopy I've ever jumped. There is nothing wrong with how it holds cell pressure and flares. It flares just like my previous pilots, except it's got a little more power because it's smaller and faster.

My point is that you don't make a very convincing argument for why ZPX isn't as good as traditional ZP.

Several jumpers at TFSK have Senseis, so you might be able to try one here in Norway. Not as much dive in it as the velo, is what they say, so if you're used to the velo you might prefer that.

Smile


(This post was edited by pinkfairy on Aug 19, 2010, 8:02 AM)


copland007  (D 31321)

Aug 19, 2010, 9:49 AM
Post #49 of 72 (3423 views)
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Re: [pinkfairy] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I love my Pilot 168zpx. It's got about 170 or so jumps on it, all in the northeast. I've got it in a Mirage G4 M3. Previously I flew a pilot 168zp and a pilot 188zp.

I've put almost all these jumps on the 168zpx while wingsuiting if that changes the equation/views for anybody.

My views...

1) packing: yes it is smaller, but not nearly as small as advertised. I would say it packs about 1/2 size smaller than the equivalent pilot 168zp. The M3 is suppose to be 'optimal' for a pilot 150zp, the pilot 168zpx is overstuffing my container. After a dozen or so pack jobs and a little stretching of the container it packs easy as butter now, but the first dozen or so pack jobs were an absolute pain in the rear end to close the container... getting it into the bag has always been smooth as butter, that alone is worth the $200. It is so easy to pack it isn't even funny. 1st attempt packing it after the 1st jump and I got it into the bag with no problems.

2) flight characteristics: I don't notice much different from the 168zp except an increase in flare power but that isn't because of zp vs zpx, it's comparing an older zp canopy that's got a few hundred more jumps vs a brand new zpx.

3) self-healing: got to see this in action, ubber-cool!! My canopy draped over a bunch of thorny things in high-ish winds and my eyeballs went wide open, AAHHH! Brought it into the hanger to inspect, had a couple of holes poked in it from those nasty thorns, wiggled the fabric a few times and boom all better, thank you zpx :D

4) durability: still slippery goodness, colors haven't faded at all. There was wear on my slider I had my rigger attend to. Where the end of the collapse strings are sewed down the thread started coming undone and the holes from the sewing machine looked like they started to grow. Other than that I haven't noticed any unusually wear anywhere on the canopy. Lines are starting to show some wear (no longer sparkling white hehe), lower brake lines just a tiny-tid-bit fuzzy.

5) openings: exactly the same as the pilot 168zp, i pack it the same, and close the container the same (grommet up for WS, and my mirage has all the birdman mods). great openings, and when I have linetwists its always flown straight and level.

bottom line... still waiting to see how long of a life I get out of it, but I have a feeling my next canopy will be a pilot zpx as well, love my pilot :)


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Aug 19, 2010, 10:52 AM
Post #50 of 72 (3405 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My conclusion based on what they said and what I saw is that ZPX is not holding up. ZPX is strechy and not that "ZP" as they've markeded/hoped/anticipated. I've seen lightly loaded Pilots to Sensei's @ 2.3 WL that have stalled upon landing, still with forward speed, causing the jumper to run and stumbel or even fall(not hard). It just seems that the ZPX can't keep the same cell pressure as standard ZP.

That's bullshit. I have a ZPX Pilot 168 and have no experience like that whatsoever. Sounds more like a canopy out of trim than the material "not holding pressure".


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