Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Aerodyne zpx experience?

 


funfall  (C 1)

Jun 1, 2009, 9:30 AM
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Aerodyne zpx experience? Can't Post

Does anyone here have experience with the ZPX low bulk material available on Aerodyne canopies? I'm wondering if there are any differences (eg. openings, handling), other than packing ease and higher price. If not, I'm considering it for a tight fit in a new container (for easier packing, and to allow more downsizing). TIA.

I've been watching for new info, and searched, but have seen nothing.


c10edges  (C 37592)

Jun 1, 2009, 1:23 PM
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have handled it. Its really cool. You can poke a hole in it with a normal writing pen and then rub it together and the hole will disappear. The professional packers who have packed it says that it just jumps in the bag. And finally the person that has jumped it loves it. Thats all i got.


funfall  (C 1)

Jun 1, 2009, 6:57 PM
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Re: [c10edges] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks! Anyone else? I'm a little surprised that it hasn't caught on. Maybe dealers or someone from Aerodyne can tell us if it's selling.


Katherine  (C 105918)

Jun 2, 2009, 4:38 AM
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Re: [c10edges] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You can poke a hole in it with a normal writing pen and then rub it together and the hole will disappear.
In reply to:

I've seen them do that too, it is really cool!


bigway

Jun 2, 2009, 5:55 AM
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In reply to:
Thanks! Anyone else? I'm a little surprised that it hasn't caught on. Maybe dealers or someone from Aerodyne can tell us if it's selling.

I have about 6-8 ZPX material canopies on order at the moment. I am told they are just waiting for a delivery of ZPX, I am pretty certain I was amongst the first lot of ZPX orders they got so doubt many are on the dropzones yet.

90% of customers asking about a Pilot are also asking for ZPX.

One of my customers will also be getting a Samurai delivered in a few days. I also imagine this will be amongst the first out there.

I am sure we will be hearing all about them over the coming month.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Jun 2, 2009, 12:06 PM
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks! Anyone else? I'm a little surprised that it hasn't caught on. Maybe dealers or someone from Aerodyne can tell us if it's selling.

as bigway writes, it was just released and there were no stock canopies, so everything is a custom order. I got mine coming sometime in the hopefully not too distant future. At the time I ordered (mid April), they were just getting it better displayed on their web page.

The only knock I have at this point is the color selection is still much more limited - no good greens in particular. I presume this isn't a technical problem, just a matter of it being a new product line.


freeflye73  (D License)

Jun 3, 2009, 12:00 PM
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Re: [bigway] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

"One of my customers will also be getting a Samurai delivered in a few days. I also imagine this will be amongst the first out there."

Are aerodyne manufacturing the Samurai now or is Brian using this material too?

//JF


(This post was edited by freeflye73 on Jun 3, 2009, 12:02 PM)


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 3, 2009, 2:25 PM
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Re: [freeflye73] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi free,

According to their ad in the latest PARACHUTIST, it looks they & Brian are in cahoots on the Sam.

JerryBaumchen


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Jun 3, 2009, 6:11 PM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi free,

According to their ad in the latest PARACHUTIST, it looks they & Brian are in cahoots on the Sam.

I believe Aerodyne is now playing the role of manufacturer for Brian, just as PD had done in the past.


bigway

Jun 3, 2009, 9:16 PM
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Re: [kelpdiver] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Hi free,

According to their ad in the latest PARACHUTIST, it looks they & Brian are in cahoots on the Sam.

I believe Aerodyne is now playing the role of manufacturer for Brian, just as PD had done in the past.

Correct.


mrwrong  (C 19515)

Jun 4, 2009, 12:25 PM
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Re: [bigway] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Hi free,

According to their ad in the latest PARACHUTIST, it looks they & Brian are in cahoots on the Sam.

I believe Aerodyne is now playing the role of manufacturer for Brian, just as PD had done in the past.

Correct.

Is this true for Samurai and Lotus as well, not just the Sensei?


kingbunky  (B 5376)

Jun 4, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: [mrwrong] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

i was told no, aerodyne is making the sensei (without airlocks) and the lotus/samurai will be signature series only (made by brian his ownself).


mrwrong  (C 19515)

Jun 4, 2009, 12:32 PM
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Re: [kingbunky] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay.. Thanx Unsure


bigway

Jun 4, 2009, 6:49 PM
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Re: [mrwrong] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

the aerodyne price sheets only include the samurai from brians brains.


verticalflier  (D 27220)

Jun 5, 2009, 5:36 PM
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been flying Mamba 96 ZPX since Dec 08. Without making this a long entry, I will say, that ZPX is the only fabric I will have my canopies build from now on. Unless we come up with more advanced one :)
This optional fabric is way worth the money!!!


funfall  (C 1)

Jun 9, 2009, 8:45 AM
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Re: [verticalflier] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I spoke with the Aerodyne CEO at a boogie last week, and he pretty much confirmed what has been said here about ZPX. Orders are coming in, with delivery limited mostly by fabric supply. Some colors n/a yet. No reports of any difference in openings or handling of canopies.

Sounds like a good option, if you're buying a new canopy from them. I guess it will be a while before we can be sure if it's as durable as regular ZPX.


gimpboogie

Jun 9, 2009, 10:17 AM
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have this canopy.
A 285-being paralyzed- I land on my butt each time and performance is critical for me on landings.

Having jumped Nvigator 260 as well as the Solo 270, I definitely can say that this canopy maintains amazingly good lift on landings.

Further more, riser turns are incredibly easy and very responsive. The Navigator 260 (which I prefer over the Solo270), was very difficult on riser turns... while the ZP is not a workout.

I have not been able to stall this canopy on toggles-thus I would say it's perhaps a great canopy for student gear in the larger sizes.

One thing I disagree with their website info -which states that it's easy to pack.
its NOT easy to pack-a true work out. Wink

The openings are consistent, regardless of how many line twists I induced-she flew straight on heading and untwists herself while I sit around and watch Cool.
Being unable to kick my way out of line twists-I always had to untwist the other two canopies myself by the risers-but my ZP knows what to do-and goes on 'autopilot' taking care of her twists.


I cant comment on the smaller sizes-we do have a swooper at out DZ who has the parachute systems VortexII container and Decelerator reserve-and as a guy whose fairly experienced-he says he also loves the VortexII container as well as the Decelerator.

My gear is completely Parachute Systems-VortexII, and Decelerator 250 reserve. (no reserve rides on it-yet )

The feedback I hear is that the Decelerator opens very quickly letting you know she's ready to go to work-that is exactly what I want-in a situation like that- fast opening to let me know all is well.

Interestingly, the Vortex container I have is long and narrow- thus with the 285 packs tighter then the navigator 260 or the solo 270 I've flown.

Despite the large size of my canopies-I have a smaller container (and yes a tighter fit-adding to the packing difficulty for me-as a paraplegic I really have to muscle it in there-lately I've been getting our pro packer to pack it-because I flat pack and we just don't have the space to have me flat packing for 40 minimum....
yet on the positive side-the container is easier for me to gear up then anything else I've jumped.

I hope some of that was somewhat useful.


Premier ianmdrennan  (D 25821)
Moderator
Jun 9, 2009, 10:32 AM
Post #18 of 72 (9155 views)
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Re: [verticalflier] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Whats the most amount of jumps you've put on canopy made from this material? How did it look?

Thanks,
Ian


gimpboogie

Jun 9, 2009, 3:06 PM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

hey I HAVE TO correct myself here.

I MISTOOK this material for parachute systems ZP.EXE canopy-which is what I have-so therefore ALL my comments in this thread actually useless....

sorry for the misunderstanding.
and if someone wanted to know about Parachute Systems ZP.EXE canopies-well then that's what is what I'm talking about.

-gimp


verticalflier  (D 27220)

Jun 9, 2009, 4:08 PM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have almost 100 jumps on my Mamba 96 ZPX. The fabric itself looks great. I can tell more wear by looking at the lines rather than canopy fabric itself. It is still the same slick and thin feel as with a brand new one, same ease in packing. We will see how other ZPX canopies out there are doing. There are few of them with far more skydives on them than on mine.


funfall  (C 1)

Jun 9, 2009, 4:17 PM
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In reply to:
I guess it will be a while before we can be sure if it's as durable as regular ZPX.

Oops - I meant to say "as regular ZP", of course.


Jkralovec  (C 39110)

Jun 26, 2009, 3:28 PM
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Re: [bigway] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

90% of customers asking about a Pilot are also asking for ZPX.

that is exactly my plan when I buy a canopy


(This post was edited by Jkralovec on Jun 26, 2009, 3:32 PM)


muz  (D License)

Jun 27, 2009, 6:10 AM
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Re: [Jkralovec] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

How can it be easy to pack and not let air through (therefore harming lift performance)?

Some tests on glide ratio compared to identical ZP canopies are needed.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 27, 2009, 6:57 AM
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In reply to:
How can it be easy to pack and not let air through (therefore harming lift performance)?

Larger needle holes?


peggs82  (C 36427)

Jun 27, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: [ianmdrennan] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Whats the most amount of jumps you've put on canopy made from this material? How did it look?

Thanks,
Ian

Sorry for my late arrival to the thread. I have one of the original ZPX Pilot 96's out there. I've been flying it for almost a year now, so I am guessing that I have about the longest amount of time on this canopy...maybe 2nd longest now that I think of it. It was one of the test platforms out there.

I would guess I have somewhere around 400+ jumps on the canopy by now. I have jumped it in many climates and many elevations. I was very blessed to have an identical Pilot 96 (standard ZP) right before it, so I had a great frame of mind for comparison! Both of them were/are flying the steeper line trim.

First I will say that I love my pilot - love love love. So on to the questions....

1. Wear - I've been regurly keeping my eyes on this, to give continual feedback to Bill at Aerodyne. Much like Les said, it looks and feels just like the day I got it. It looks like someone attached old lines to my new canopy Tongue

2. Fabric feel - Like most Aerodyne canopies, I find that fresh out of the bag they are far easier to pack than other brands ZP coating. The fabric has maintained that same feeling over its lifespan thus far. Colors seem bright and new as well.

3. Pack Volume - Noticeably smaller right away. On those days when it feels like your canopy packs smaller from the humidity, you will REALLY notice a difference!

4. Flight Characteristics - I notice no change to the flight characteristics. Openings remain predictable and consistent. Canopy feels solid. Smaller/lighter/thinner fabric feels the same....which is great!

5. Pen holes - Seriously people.....stop coming up to me asking if you can poke a hole in my canopy!!!!! LaughLaughLaugh

To sum it up, I think that it is a fantastic fabric. The strength of the honey-comb pattern ALONE is reason enough to buy this option. Lower pack volume is also welcomed!

I can be found in New England this summer. Anyone is welcome to come up and see me. PM me, and I will happily try to meet up with you, and you can see for yourself. I would love to help answer your questions! If you are interested (and qualified - it is a 96 after all Wink), you are welcome to test jump it as well!


Emu

Jul 5, 2009, 8:41 PM
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Will a ZPX Pilot 168 fit in a container (TJN Jav) for a 135?


verticalflier  (D 27220)

Jul 9, 2009, 11:58 PM
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Re: [Emu] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not familiar with Javelin sizing since we rather sell Icon containers, but Pilot 168 ZPX fits in I4 built for 132-150 ZP with no problem. Hope this helps?
LESZEK


OlympiaStoica  (C 38509)

Aug 18, 2009, 2:25 PM
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Re: [verticalflier] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was going to start a thread about this ... glad I did a search and found that the question has been already asked.

Les ... I believe you're the one helping me out testing the Pilot 188 this weekend. THANK YOU!!! Smile

I am pretty certain I want to buy a Pilot 188 ... the stock one that I like is ZPX ... and after making one mistake going for something "new and unproven", I'm not sure I want to go down that road again.

I wanted to find out about the track record of ZPX, particularly, if there are any differences in flight characteristics (immediately and over time). I gather from this thread that there aren't any ... but this material is too new to say for sure.

So, now I'm stuck making a ... judgement call ...

O


bigway

Aug 18, 2009, 11:46 PM
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Re: [OlympiaStoica] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just make sure the ZPX will fit in your container. remember the main thing about the zpx is it packs smaller.
remember at the same time that this means it only packs the same size at ICarus and PD canopies as the original Pilot canopy packed larger than them


OlympiaStoica  (C 38509)

Aug 19, 2009, 5:21 AM
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Re: [bigway] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just make sure the ZPX will fit in your container. remember the main thing about the zpx is it packs smaller.
remember at the same time that this means it only packs the same size at ICarus and PD canopies as the original Pilot canopy packed larger than them

I've had a Icarus Safire2 210 in my container and now I have a PD 190 ... I should be all set in terms of fitting ...

O


bigway

Aug 19, 2009, 6:19 AM
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Re: [OlympiaStoica] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

So would a normal Pilot 188 ZP would fit in your container? how loose or tight was the sabre 2?
Out of curiosity, Why do you want to buy a ZPX if you dont need it?
Seems like an extra $160-$200 you dont need to spend if you ask me.

To be totally honest with you, I am not sure a Pilot 188 zpx would fit very weel in your container, it may be a tad too small. My first ZPX customer only received their canopies about a month ago so I dont have any experience with the ZPX material but you want to make sure a 188zpx will fit and fit safely.

I would suggest you ask a rigger but they would not know as they would not have much experience with them yet. Then i would suggest you ask a manufacturer that built the container, but again their standard responses from me lately have been they dont know as of yet.

Unless of course you jump a icon container.

What container do you have and what size is the container. You cant really determine it based on a F1-11 canopy in it at the moment or a sabre 2 210 as they both pack very differently depending on age etc and also because all three materials are different.


(This post was edited by bigway on Aug 19, 2009, 6:21 AM)


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2009, 6:25 AM
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Very, very easy to pack even when brand new, and flew and landed like normal.

I like it!

Smile


JanuszPS  (D 568)

Aug 19, 2009, 7:21 AM
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Re: [bigway] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
[..]
Out of curiosity, Why do you want to buy a ZPX if you dont need it?
Seems like an extra $160-$200 you dont need to spend if you ask me.
[..]

If I was buying a brand new canopy from Areodyne (assuming that my container is ok for smaller main pack volume as you said) I would defenitely get one made of ZPX for very simple reason - it is much easier to pack than the normal ZP and this is worth for me the extra couple hundred $.
three of four canopies which I ever owned were made of Gelvenor and for that reason I always was hunting for a good value second-hand canopy made of Gelvenor and now I'm happy that it's back.
I am a happy owner of two Cobalt's and not that happy of Sabre 2 ;-).
Janusz


bigway

Aug 19, 2009, 8:28 AM
Post #34 of 72 (4857 views)
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Re: [JanuszPS] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Fair enough. Was not considering that option. Probably cause my back is fucked and i dont pack.

Good point though.


In no way am I saying dont buy a ZPX, I spend 6 figures a year buying aerodyne products and fully support them, I was only asking.


Scootersv

May 24, 2010, 8:31 PM
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Re: [OlympiaStoica] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just bringing this thread back alive

Recently had a conversation with a well known respected person in canopy designing who's opinion i value a lot. The outcome of the conversation made me curious whether we'd hear more info on (not much has been posted up until now):


I wanted to find out about the track record of ZPX, particularly, if there are any differences in flight characteristics (immediately and over time)


Is there any difference in rigidity of the wing made of standard ZP compare to ZPX flying in different weather condition?
All info shared on the above will be great and much appreciated.


sundevil777  (D License)

May 24, 2010, 10:46 PM
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Re: [Scootersv] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I sure hope it is all good, mine arrives in a month (Pilot 210 ZPX)Cool

Might as well just 'fess up with what was discussed, come on, what is the internet for if not rumors?

From a design engineer's perspective, I don't think there is much reason for concern. I believe the material mfg is independent of Aerodyne, and I think that the material design engineers know very well the appropriate performance parameters and how to confirm that the short and long term results are good. The performance and durability summary that Aerodyne sent me showed that the new material was tougher and more durable than the standard ZP stuff. Is there some reason to distrust the integrity of the material mfg?

You might have concerns about the long term dimensional stability of the new material. i do not believe that such an issue, or long term porosity for instance would be overlooked. You have the testing of the material mfg, and the canopy mfg to wring out potential trouble, and I will rely on that much more than the speculation of a canopy designer not involved in the development.

If anything, the use of ZP and non-ZP fabric on the same canopy should raise more issues than an all ZPX canopy, but why don't we worry about that? Because the canopy mfgs have thoroughly tested them over lots of jumps.

We don't have anything that shows the optimum reserves have issues, correct? That's an all new material being used for reserves.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on May 24, 2010, 10:48 PM)


Scootersv

May 25, 2010, 12:57 AM
Post #37 of 72 (4280 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not so much interested in durability of the ZPZ material. I'm sure it's durable and has been thoroughly tested. More interested to hear feedback of people who had a chance to compare performance of ZPX Sensei vs ZP Sensei, ZPX Mamba vs ZP Mamba, ZPX Pilot vs ZP Pilot, etc...


Fledgling  (D 28490)

May 25, 2010, 7:24 AM
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Re: [Scootersv] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not so much interested in durability of the ZPZ material. I'm sure it's durable and has been thoroughly tested.

I recently inspected a ZPX canopy that showed excessive wear after less than 500 jumps.
If I was you I would wait a little longer to see how they hold up in the field.


lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:17 AM
Post #39 of 72 (3891 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped the Sensei 101 last year once, s my personal feel i limited.

but, I've seen this year many canopies that have been jumped with ZPX and spoke with the jumpers.

My conclusion based on what they said and what I saw is that ZPX is not holding up. ZPX is strechy and not that "ZP" as they've markeded/hoped/anticipated. I've seen lightly loaded Pilots to Sensei's @ 2.3 WL that have stalled upon landing, still with forward speed, causing the jumper to run and stumbel or even fall(not hard). It just seems that the ZPX can't keep the same cell pressure as standard ZP.

What I felt on the single jump i did with the Sensei, is that I reached stall point with still enough forward speed that I really had to run it to keep up with it. Others that were used to Velocity canopies experienced the same thing. And no, it wasn't because they've got different flare, it was because the Sensei with ZPX actually stalled before it was shut down.

But I'd guess that with a better coating it will be more airtight and perform better. But then it wouldn't pack that lite.

Another thing I've noticed this summer is that HMA suspension lines will last as little as 250ish jumps on a katana or Velo. I wouldn't recommend HMA for anyone that doesn't practice swooping. It hasn't to do with danger, just that you would have to reline your entire canopy anything between 250-500 jumps. Control lines maybe as little as 120-150 jumps. if you can afford it, then go for it. If not, use spectra on semi-elliptical/rectangular canopies and Vectran for those who like speed and fast canopies, but can't/won't afford reline every 250 jumps.

just my 2 cents.. Smile


likestojump  (D License)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:35 AM
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another thing I've noticed this summer is that HMA suspension lines will last as little as 250ish jumps on a katana or Velo. I wouldn't recommend HMA for anyone that doesn't practice swooping. It hasn't to do with danger, just that you would have to reline your entire canopy anything between 250-500 jumps. Control lines maybe as little as 120-150 jumps. if you can afford it, then go for it. If not, use spectra on semi-elliptical/rectangular canopies and Vectran for those who like speed and fast canopies, but can't/won't afford reline every 250 jumps.

just my 2 cents.. Smile

That's a generisized statement. HMA lines come in different tensile strengths and with different coatings - you cannot equate non-coated HMA300 lines to coated HMA500.




lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:44 AM
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In reply to:

That's a generisized statement. HMA lines come in different tensile strengths and with different coatings - you cannot equate non-coated HMA300 lines to coated HMA500.

I was talking about for PD's non coated 500lb HMA. 300LB is only for those special interested, and they know what they are getting.

The normal skydiver is using 500lb HMA, and I've seen Pilots with them. I can't understand why Pilots are fitted with HMA when HMA is more expensive and doesn't yield any increase in performance compared to Spectra.

I've never jumped or monitored coated HMA, so I can't comment on that.


likestojump  (D License)

Aug 19, 2010, 6:44 AM
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Re: [stayhigh] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I haven't seen standard PD issued Katana lineset lasting more than 350 jumps here in so-cal.
I've seen them break little as 100 jumps.
However the green HMA lineset made by Mel or Pete does seem to hold better than non-coated ones.

Why aren't PD making lineset with coated HMA????

I am quite certain (At least as of a few months ago) both Pete and Mel and Simon Wade used the blue coated HMA. The green coated HMA I have only seen from Brian Germain. I could be wrong, but it probably is beside the point :)

As far as PD and coated HMA - having spoken to PD, they mentioned that they ARE using - if you notice their team canopies sometimes have red lines - I was told that they are still testing different materials/coating (at least that's how I understood it), and once they are happy with the product, they will have it available to the general public.




pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:01 AM
Post #45 of 72 (3862 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you sure those aren't the characteristics of the Sensei compared to what you're used to?

Or inexperienced jumpers pounding in without flaring properly?

I jump a ZPX Pilot 111 for the last 120 jumps, and it flies and lands EXACTLY like my previous ZP Pilots. No difference whatsoever, except it's faster and packs smaller. I do find that I have to take a little more care in getting it neatly in the bag in order to avoid off heading openings, but that might just be due to the D-bag being too small.


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:03 AM
Post #46 of 72 (3859 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was talking about for PD's non coated 500lb HMA. 300LB is only for those special interested, and they know what they are getting.

The normal skydiver is using 500lb HMA, and I've seen Pilots with them. I can't understand why Pilots are fitted with HMA when HMA is more expensive and doesn't yield any increase in performance compared to Spectra.

I've never jumped or monitored coated HMA, so I can't comment on that.

Newer Pilots come with uncoated HMA 500, my old Pilot had uncoated HMA 800.


lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:16 AM
Post #47 of 72 (3850 views)
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Re: [pinkfairy] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Are you sure those aren't the characteristics of the Sensei compared to what you're used to?

Or inexperienced jumpers pounding in without flaring properly?

That were my first thought to. But seeing them in use and speaking with the skydivers I'm confident in my opinion. All of them had more then 500 jumps, but most of them had more then 1500 jumps and competing i FS or FF in this world cup. Some of them changes to their old canopies. But yes, we may discuss a lot how much their individual skills with canopy flying would affect the outcome. I wish I had the opportunity to jump different ZPX and ZP canopies in varoius sizes to see for my self and compare them. That would have been a good way to pass judgment on general level. But in the end we all need to se for our selv and make up our own mind.

I'd really like to try the Sensei in ZP to see if it's just the canopy or the material, but I haven't found anyone around me yet. The Pilot I've flown a lot in various sizes and I remembered that they had different flare characteristics then the Sabre. But they did come to a full stop without issues.


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Aug 19, 2010, 7:59 AM
Post #48 of 72 (3817 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Many very experienced jumpers don't like how the Pilot lands. It's a personal preference, and if you're used to PD canopies, you might not like the Pilot.

My last 350 jumps have been on different sizes of Pilot, and my ZPX Pilot 111 that I have 120 jumps on is by far the best canopy I've ever jumped. There is nothing wrong with how it holds cell pressure and flares. It flares just like my previous pilots, except it's got a little more power because it's smaller and faster.

My point is that you don't make a very convincing argument for why ZPX isn't as good as traditional ZP.

Several jumpers at TFSK have Senseis, so you might be able to try one here in Norway. Not as much dive in it as the velo, is what they say, so if you're used to the velo you might prefer that.

Smile


(This post was edited by pinkfairy on Aug 19, 2010, 8:02 AM)


copland007  (D 31321)

Aug 19, 2010, 9:49 AM
Post #49 of 72 (3773 views)
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Re: [pinkfairy] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I love my Pilot 168zpx. It's got about 170 or so jumps on it, all in the northeast. I've got it in a Mirage G4 M3. Previously I flew a pilot 168zp and a pilot 188zp.

I've put almost all these jumps on the 168zpx while wingsuiting if that changes the equation/views for anybody.

My views...

1) packing: yes it is smaller, but not nearly as small as advertised. I would say it packs about 1/2 size smaller than the equivalent pilot 168zp. The M3 is suppose to be 'optimal' for a pilot 150zp, the pilot 168zpx is overstuffing my container. After a dozen or so pack jobs and a little stretching of the container it packs easy as butter now, but the first dozen or so pack jobs were an absolute pain in the rear end to close the container... getting it into the bag has always been smooth as butter, that alone is worth the $200. It is so easy to pack it isn't even funny. 1st attempt packing it after the 1st jump and I got it into the bag with no problems.

2) flight characteristics: I don't notice much different from the 168zp except an increase in flare power but that isn't because of zp vs zpx, it's comparing an older zp canopy that's got a few hundred more jumps vs a brand new zpx.

3) self-healing: got to see this in action, ubber-cool!! My canopy draped over a bunch of thorny things in high-ish winds and my eyeballs went wide open, AAHHH! Brought it into the hanger to inspect, had a couple of holes poked in it from those nasty thorns, wiggled the fabric a few times and boom all better, thank you zpx :D

4) durability: still slippery goodness, colors haven't faded at all. There was wear on my slider I had my rigger attend to. Where the end of the collapse strings are sewed down the thread started coming undone and the holes from the sewing machine looked like they started to grow. Other than that I haven't noticed any unusually wear anywhere on the canopy. Lines are starting to show some wear (no longer sparkling white hehe), lower brake lines just a tiny-tid-bit fuzzy.

5) openings: exactly the same as the pilot 168zp, i pack it the same, and close the container the same (grommet up for WS, and my mirage has all the birdman mods). great openings, and when I have linetwists its always flown straight and level.

bottom line... still waiting to see how long of a life I get out of it, but I have a feeling my next canopy will be a pilot zpx as well, love my pilot :)


pilot-one  (D 30000)

Aug 19, 2010, 10:52 AM
Post #50 of 72 (3755 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
My conclusion based on what they said and what I saw is that ZPX is not holding up. ZPX is strechy and not that "ZP" as they've markeded/hoped/anticipated. I've seen lightly loaded Pilots to Sensei's @ 2.3 WL that have stalled upon landing, still with forward speed, causing the jumper to run and stumbel or even fall(not hard). It just seems that the ZPX can't keep the same cell pressure as standard ZP.

That's bullshit. I have a ZPX Pilot 168 and have no experience like that whatsoever. Sounds more like a canopy out of trim than the material "not holding pressure".


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 20, 2010, 11:01 PM
Post #51 of 72 (3786 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It just seems that the ZPX can't keep the same cell pressure as standard ZP.

If that were true, then the PD Pulse would suffer even more, and the performance would degrade even faster over time. We don't hear about that being a fact though.

I find it fascinating that the Pulse can achieve good results with the entire lower skin made of their thin, but not a zero porosity fabric. Apparently canopies can withstand a remarkable amount of overall porosity and still realize the benefits of an all zero p fabric canopy. Some base canopies have an even smaller % of the canopy made of zero p and claim benefit.


pnuwin  (D 112233)

Aug 21, 2010, 1:54 AM
Post #52 of 72 (3772 views)
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Re: [lilchief] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The normal skydiver is using 500lb HMA, and I've seen Pilots with them. I can't understand why Pilots are fitted with HMA when HMA is more expensive and doesn't yield any increase in performance compared to Spectra.

Aerodyne have a 700lb HMA option on their Pilot at no extra cost. I was considering this for my next pilot but is it really a bad choice? I know the performance improvement from less drag will be minimal but it will stay in trim for the life of the lines. No spectra shrinkage which does significantly affect performance.

From my research, the only downside I've found is HMA is less abrasion resistant (especially at the soft link and brake lines). It is also less UV resistant compared to Spectra.

I'm thinking HMA at the 700lb thickness is still good for 500 jumps even with all its downsides. Still conservative. Is there something else I don't know about HMA?


lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 21, 2010, 2:47 AM
Post #53 of 72 (3768 views)
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Re: [pnuwin] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are several more experienced riggers here that might comment more accurately then me, but I'll answer your question.

I believe that 700lb HMA will most likely last 500 jumps on a pilot. You'll extend the lifespan of the lines to their max potential by packing for smooth openings. The faster and harder the opening, the greater heat generation will occur on the slider grommets and they'll start wear out/melt the lowest part of your lines(1" over the softlinks), softlinks, and maybe even your risers.

But what I'm explaining to you now is what I've seen on canopies with HMA smaller then 135 and loaded more than 1,6. I haven't seen much of these damages on Pilots with HMA since they are still somewhat rare where I've been packing.

Spectra lines will shrink, but is also able to be streached almost back to it's original length. With nice openings(not hard or fast) the shrinkage will happen later, maybe after 500 jumps or so. The significant shrinkage will not be noticeable until at the end of the lifespan on the lines.

Take that into consideration and remember that you'll probably not do more then 300 jumps on that canopy before changing it to something else. (With HMA that will mean that the next skydiver will most likely have to replace the lines during the time he/she has it, or in order to sell it again). The info you have found regarding HMA is correct. I can't see anything else that you need to know.

So it's more like the next skydivers problem =P

I'd recommend you to go with spectra lines since we know how much they last. HMA may snap early or last for a longer time, but I guess that other Master riggers may give you a better feedback on what to choose. =)


lilchief  (D 78149)

Aug 21, 2010, 2:58 AM
Post #54 of 72 (3766 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

you're absolutely right!

Navigator, Shiluette, Electra have all been made from ZP top skin and F-111 bottom skin and ribs. That have proven to hold up very good. It doesn't suprise me that the Pulse is performing very well. As long as the top skin is airtight, then the canopy will performe well(of course, after time the F-111 will give less support and degrade the canopy's performance slightly).

But when pressure is lost out through the top skin, performance is lost.


freakyrat  (D 12700)

May 22, 2011, 9:08 AM
Post #55 of 72 (3483 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I recently received my 140 Pilot made out of ZPX. It packed about 1/2 size down and I presently have it in a Micron 310. It just wouldn't go in my Mirage MT sized container even with ZPX. I'm primarily going to use the canopy for wing suit jumps. I put a wing suit jump on the canopy and it opened and flew great. To someone who said that the canopy doesn't hold air pressure like regular ZP I got news for you. The winds had picked up to 25 MPH when I landed and the canopy was about as hard to get the air out of as an air locked canopy. The canopy opened very good and it flew great. I don't know if Aerodyne recently changed the line trim or what cause my Pilot is better than the one I demoed. It was very responsive and also had a very good flying speed and descent range with the toggles. From where I opened after the dive I had no problem getting back on the wind line and back to the DZ. The canopy also flared very well probably because of the winds but a two stage flare technique should work well in light winds.
To sum up: ZPX openings and handling on the Pilot are pretty much the same as non ZPX. ZPX is easier to pack but is a little slippery. In a dry climate like Dallas it probably packs about 1/2 - i size down. It probably packs smaller in more humid climates. For what I'm using the canopy for (Wingsiuiting) and loading it about 1.2 - 1.3 its perfect.


BIRDDOCTOR  (C 38240)

May 22, 2011, 12:48 PM
Post #56 of 72 (3449 views)
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Re: [freakyrat] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with the above. I have a Pilot 150 ZPX in my V310. Packs easy and deploys great with my wingsuit. Flys and flares like a dream. I will be hard pressed to ever change to another canopy.


normandycoast  (A License)

May 26, 2011, 7:41 PM
Post #57 of 72 (3257 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had my ZPX pilot 210 for over a year now and love it. It's slippery when new just like a regular zp canopy. So far all seams, color fastness, and wear are great. It DOES pack smaller than regular ZP which is nice if you are on the more conservative side and want a bigger canopy without a huge rig. If your in washington state and want to check it let me know, I also have sample color swatches from aerodyne of the zpx fabric.
Take care.


angryelf  (D License)

May 26, 2011, 10:14 PM
Post #58 of 72 (3225 views)
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Re: [normandycoast] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I emailed Aerodyne a few weeks ago asking to demo a canopy. (Sensei 121). The response I got back was that they were re-building their entire Sensei demo fleet out of regular ZP b/c the "ZPX canopies were not performing as they thought they should" and that they would get in touch with me once they had the new demo fleet back up. I'm not sure if they are ceasing to use ZPX on Sensei canopies only, Smaller canopies only or if they are stopping production of all canopies made of ZPX until further notice.


Electronaut  (C 38872)

May 27, 2011, 7:09 AM
Post #59 of 72 (3178 views)
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Re: [angryelf] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

They removed the option for ZPX on their custom design section of their website for the Sensei.


funfall  (C 1)

May 27, 2011, 11:20 AM
Post #60 of 72 (3142 views)
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Re: [Electronaut] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

On their website, it appears that only the Sensei is affected. Others don't seem to have changed, as far as I can see. (They're closed for the weekend, so can't confirm.)

BTW, my guess is that "not performing" meant not selling well (in that particular model).


(This post was edited by funfall on May 27, 2011, 1:06 PM)


verticalflier  (D 27220)

May 27, 2011, 8:38 PM
Post #61 of 72 (3101 views)
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Re: [angryelf] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I emailed Aerodyne a few weeks ago asking to demo a canopy. (Sensei 121). The response I got back was that they were re-building their entire Sensei demo fleet out of regular ZP b/c the "ZPX canopies were not performing as they thought they should" and that they would get in touch with me once they had the new demo fleet back up. I'm not sure if they are ceasing to use ZPX on Sensei canopies only, Smaller canopies only or if they are stopping production of all canopies made of ZPX until further notice.
ZPX option is not available only on Sensei canopies. The rest of our mains are available in both ZP and ZPX fabric.


millertime24  (C 38793)

May 27, 2011, 8:51 PM
Post #62 of 72 (3092 views)
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Re: [verticalflier] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I emailed Aerodyne a few weeks ago asking to demo a canopy. (Sensei 121). The response I got back was that they were re-building their entire Sensei demo fleet out of regular ZP b/c the "ZPX canopies were not performing as they thought they should" and that they would get in touch with me once they had the new demo fleet back up. I'm not sure if they are ceasing to use ZPX on Sensei canopies only, Smaller canopies only or if they are stopping production of all canopies made of ZPX until further notice.
ZPX option is not available only on Sensei canopies. The rest of our mains are available in both ZP and ZPX fabric.

Any word on why ZPX doesn't work on the Sensei? Does it have something to do with the canopy being cross-braced? I'm just curious. BTW, you guys make the best canopy on the market (the Pilot) IMO.Smile


aeroflyer  (C License)

Jun 1, 2011, 1:38 AM
Post #63 of 72 (2991 views)
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Re: [millertime24] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a Pilot 168 and love the canopy. When I got it I had the option for ZPX and HMA lines but I opted to get ZP and Spectra. I'm not sure if anything's changed but when I bought the canopy I wasn't certain about the longevity of the ZPX as I think it's a thinner material. In hindsight I should have gotten Vectran lines as they don't go out of trim, if you want to go with HMA as they don't either but I've heard they can break suddenly unlike the other types. Not really concerns if you maintain your gear though.

For now I think the debate ZP vs ZPX is personal preference, until we see canopies with many jumps (1000+?)


jenette  (D License)

Jun 1, 2011, 9:00 AM
Post #64 of 72 (2955 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I totally love it!! I've had a new Sabre 2 give me grief all the way into the bag, even packers wrestled with it. Then used a newish Pilot 188 then 168 zp.

Since packing was always my weak point I went with the extra cost and bought my Pilot 168 zpx. Got it in the bag first go!! It has a texture that I feel helps. I really, truly love the zpx and I love the pilot.. it has the handling and performance I was looking for, responsive yet forgiving. The colours kinda suck, but I ain't complaining.

LOVE LOVE LOVE!!


funfall  (C 1)

Jun 1, 2011, 7:33 PM
Post #65 of 72 (2889 views)
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Re: [millertime24] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep, Just doesn't work as well on the cross braced Sensei, but no such problem in other canopies. My understanding is that some of the qualities that make it good in other ways (flexibility and/or slight elasticity) are detrimental in making crossbraces strong/stiff. Don't want to misquote anyone, so will leave it up to Aerodyne to answer detailed questions.


Kahuna  (D 13921)

Jul 14, 2013, 3:30 PM
Post #66 of 72 (1858 views)
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Re: [funfall] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

bumping this thread back up because I'm thinking of getting a Pilot and wondering how the zpx is holding up now that people have had more time to put plenty of jumps on it?

Any known issues?


Brandon350  (C 40751)

Jul 15, 2013, 9:57 AM
Post #67 of 72 (1690 views)
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Re: [Kahuna] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

I love my Pilot ZPX. 250 jumps on it now and it's still great! However, a hawk attacked me this weekend and ripped the shit out of it, so I'm about to see how well it holds ZP patches since my rigger doesn't have any ZPX fabric.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 10:14 AM
Post #68 of 72 (1674 views)
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Re: [Brandon350] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm about to see how well it holds ZP patches since my rigger doesn't have any ZPX fabric.

I think you'd be wise to wait and get the right fabric. The ZPX stretches differently than regular ZP, so that would put unusual stress/strain on the areas around the patches.

For the OP, my ZPX Pilot has been great for me, but only a couple hundred jumps on it so far.


DougH  (D License)

Jul 15, 2013, 10:49 AM
Post #69 of 72 (1650 views)
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Re: [Brandon350] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Brandon350 wrote:
I love my Pilot ZPX. 250 jumps on it now and it's still great! However, a hawk attacked me this weekend and ripped the shit out of it, so I'm about to see how well it holds ZP patches since my rigger doesn't have any ZPX fabric.

Wow! That must have been a big surprise! Shocked


Brandon350  (C 40751)

Jul 15, 2013, 3:02 PM
Post #70 of 72 (1547 views)
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Re: [DougH] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

DougH wrote:
Wow! That must have been a big surprise! Shocked

It was! here's the link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzarPjcQobE

I ordered some ZPX fabric from aerodyne. Don't want to increase my pack volume with ZP patches! Wink


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jul 15, 2013, 5:19 PM
Post #71 of 72 (1490 views)
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Re: [Brandon350] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
However, a hawk attacked me this weekend and ripped the shit out of it

VIDEO...or it didn't happen!Wink


(This post was edited by SEREJumper on Jul 15, 2013, 5:19 PM)


Baxter99  (B 31348)

Jul 16, 2013, 5:09 AM
Post #72 of 72 (1388 views)
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Re: [Kahuna] Aerodyne zpx experience? [In reply to] Can't Post

Frank I've got 400 jumps on my zpx pilot, it still looks brand new.



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