Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
Sit suit?

 


TheCapt  (C 38102)

Jan 19, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Sit suit? Can't Post

One of my new year's resolutions is to master sit flying. I have only an academic knowledge, partially from reading "Vertical Journey," and I am wondering if anyone reading this has ever used a "Sit Suit" made by Tony. If you actually have used one, or actually talked to someone who did, please comment.


CarloC  (D 252794)

Jan 19, 2009, 12:05 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

No man, those suits are so early 90s, rsrsrs Wink

They have little wings on the arms and come in shorts so you dont have drag on your legs and that help you stay in head up position.

They are cheating suits. Tongue

Witch is not a good way to learn to fly head up.
Talk to a coach or a more experienced freeflyer to help you out with your head up.

A lot of freefly coaches recommend that you use a long sleeve tshirt and shorts to help you out in the start of your training if you dont have a regular freefly suit.

Blue ones


(This post was edited by CarloC on Jan 19, 2009, 1:45 PM)


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
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Jan 19, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are some old guys who use them religiously in DeLand that I've seen, but in all my travels to other dropzones, I've never jumped with anyone else who has used one. If you're going to spend money, spend it on coaching so you'll learn to fly your body and not the suit. Smile


virgin-burner

Jan 19, 2009, 3:17 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

jump more, if you dont do coaching, it only takes you 1-200 jumps to get relatively stable and give/receive docks.. TongueLaugh


raymond_jones  (D License)

Jan 19, 2009, 5:11 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One of my new year's resolutions is to master sit flying. I have only an academic knowledge, partially from reading "Vertical Journey," and I am wondering if anyone reading this has ever used a "Sit Suit" made by Tony. If you actually have used one, or actually talked to someone who did, please comment.
forget about the suit, throw the book away, it's C-R-A-P


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Jan 19, 2009, 5:15 PM
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Re: [skymama] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There are some old guys who use them religiously in DeLand that I've seen, but in all my travels to other dropzones, I've never jumped with anyone else who has used one. If you're going to spend money, spend it on coaching so you'll learn to fly your body and not the suit.

Great idea: They should start making sit-suits with enough space for a pair of Dependz in them.


peek  (D 8884)

Jan 19, 2009, 6:45 PM
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Re: [skymama] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There are some old guys who use them religiously in DeLand....

You know why? Because if you are sit-flying for the sake of sit-flying alone, and to have fun sit-flying, they work! "Sit-suits" were designed to have a "standard fall rate" much like Gary Carter's FliteSuit was many years ago.

But now sit-flying is mostly just a small step in the progression to freeflying and head-down flying, so a person might as well get a sweatshirt or freefly jumpsuit, that way they won't be seen as uncool.

There is just one problem. What do you do when a 250 pounder wants to "sit-fly" with a 100 pounder? No amount of "learn to fly your body" is going to be able to allow them to fly at the same fall rate (comfortably).

None of this will make sense to the people who are close to "average" in size, and whose body position will allow them to adapt to the fall rate.

(It is apparently a generational thing now too, considering some of the comments I am reading in this thread.)


iwasinkheson68  (E License)

Jan 19, 2009, 7:44 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

a friend of mine picked one up for a bargin. don't know how much good it did his progression, but he looked incredibly ridiculous.


SimonBones  (D 28573)

Jan 19, 2009, 8:05 PM
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Re: [peek] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There is just one problem. What do you do when a 250 pounder wants to "sit-fly" with a 100 pounder? No amount of "learn to fly your body" is going to be able to allow them to fly at the same fall rate (comfortably).

Disagree. A smaller person is also presenting less surface area tot he relative wind. A big person presents a lot more. If you throw in jumpsuit bagginess for the heavier person and a tighter suit for the lighter person, it can be done absolutely comfortably. The bagginess doesn't even have to be extreme.

I tested this theory with some spaceball flights. I took a small 100lb girl in a freefly suit and (with some practice and training) had her sitflying comfortably with a calibrated 170mph spaceball. She could even catch it. A big heavy dude in a baggier jumpsuit should be able to slow his sit down to 170mph without too many problems.

Fall rate adjustment may be more difficult for a less experienced freeflyer but with some practice this scenario is absolutely possible.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jan 19, 2009, 8:46 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey - I've got a Tony Sit-suit, sitting in my "miscellaneous accumulated skydive stuff" bin right now! I've even still got the matching "webbed gloves" that go with it, to boot!

Yeah, it's "way-90's", no doubt. That, and I've still seen a few camera-guys still use one. It's kind of a joke/novelty now, around the DZ for the most part, although I will claim that MY particular sit-suit is actually (even fairly recently) famous! I'll have to find which issue it is - but if anyone recalls, a full Parachutist Centerfold with Bill Morrissey doing a sit (train) exit in a sit-suit (it was either just this past season or the one before), well then - that is MINE! Sly SHAZAM! Cool Actually though, if you can bear looking silly - they do "work". A "cheater-suit" I think as someone called it, is probably apt description.

As others have said though - it is definitely not worth purchasing a sit-suit any longer. I just keep mine around still, as a kind of novelty, and a running DZ joke to share every now & then is all. Other than that, sit-suits seems to have been just a passing (and for the most part now, dead) fad. FWIW


peek  (D 8884)

Jan 20, 2009, 5:33 AM
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Re: [SimonBones] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

It is good that you have done some tests. In my opinion the real test would be to electronically record the fall rate (on a number of jumps) of 2 jumpers of extremely different sizes/weights jumping by themselves in a relaxed body position (both jumpers sit-flying or head-down, whichever you are testing.) These would need to be experienced jumpers who are honestly trying to fall in a relaxed position and not compensating.

Edited to add:
Another way would be to have a very small experienced sit-flyer adjust the weight in a skyball so that it is as effortless as possible to fall with it while jumping solo. Then give it to a very heavy experienced sit-flyer and have them report whether they can match fall rate in a relaxed body position. If they can, it means the heavy jumper has the right amount of drag.

All of my fall rate studies are based on skydivers wanting to easily match fall rates, and then using their body position changes to compensate for the normal things that cause fall rate changes on a skydive.


But, after all the fall rate research is considered, what I wrote earlier is probably closest to reality: "...sit-flying is mostly just a small step in the progression to freeflying and head-down flying, so a person might as well get a sweatshirt or freefly jumpsuit..."


(This post was edited by peek on Jan 20, 2009, 7:34 AM)


SimonBones  (D 28573)

Jan 20, 2009, 7:59 AM
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Re: [peek] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done some flights with some larger guys using the same balls, but I don't know if they were quite as big as 250lbs. Definitely some who were over 200 though and they were able to sit comfortably with a ball calibrated at 160mph.

Guess I need to find a freeflyer who weighs 250lbs who is willing to undergo some fall rate tests.


TheCapt  (C 38102)

Jan 20, 2009, 9:39 AM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

OK. I'm not going to get a sit-suit.


wildWilly  (B License)

Jan 20, 2009, 3:08 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got a Tony sit-suit that I got in the 90s. It was a great help to learn sit flying when no one at the DZ was doing stuff like that. It made it really easy to stay in a sit and was like training wheels. I haven't used it much lately but I still pull it out every once in a while for special jumps.

Willy


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Jan 20, 2009, 11:08 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One of my new year's resolutions is to master sit flying. I have only an academic knowledge, partially from reading "Vertical Journey," and I am wondering if anyone reading this has ever used a "Sit Suit"

They were all the rage back in the early to mid nineties when we were making the transition from freak flying (or that thing French people did with single winged sit suits called something like chutasis) to freefly with baggy suits.

The wings only addressed right-side-up fall rate and got you a slow fall rate that may be close enough to fast 4-way that you could turn points on mixed loads.

Once you have a stable sit, you really need to have the same neutral fall rate as everyone else so you can start taking grips and doing the social things that make skydiving fun instead of just playing with yourself.

Sit suits probably hinder you as much as helping in that situation (provided that everyone else has one; if they don't you need to match their lower drag), because they mean more of your lift is coming from your arms so it's harder to take grips. You really need to be able to get lift off your legs and back.

Pulling was allegedly a problem but didn't seem to cause issues for me - no one told me I was supposed to collapse my left wing by turning my palm up when pulling until I had a bunch of sit jumps and sky-surfs with the thing.

While a nice stepping stone (like the batton pass) they're not where you want to go.

I think mine came from DLT designs not Tony; but there were a bunch of companies.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jan 20, 2009, 11:12 PM)


freefal  (D 19162)

Jan 21, 2009, 12:00 PM
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Re: [peek] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...what I wrote earlier is probably closest to reality: "...sit-flying is mostly just a small step in the progression to freeflying and head-down flying, so a person might as well get a sweatshirt or freefly jumpsuit..."

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have to disagree with you on this Gary. When I started freeflying back in the 90's I didn't concentrate too much on sit flying and now I regret it. I'm proficient on my head (and more comfortable in the air that way) but I always looked at sit flying as either a recovery position or something I did when jumping with someone who wasnt very skilled at flying head down. After all these years of flying on my head, I now find myself trying to learn how to sit fly better so I can improve my VFS skills and build more interesting formations. Its typically the better freeflyers that fly the sitting slots in any of the bigger FF formations, and sit flying in VFS while taking grips is downright hard.

All that being said, in response to the original poster I think sit suits had their time and place in the grand evolution of our sport (I owned one for a short while) but for most people its better to concentrate on learning how to improve ones sit flying techniques and adjust overall suit drag to compensate for more or less weight instead of using a sit suit. Thats just my 2 cents though.


peek  (D 8884)

Jan 21, 2009, 12:18 PM
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Re: [freefal] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

I know what you mean. That quote is just my observation of what I have observed going on, not my opinion of how I think it should be.


cweeks  (D 27553)

Jan 21, 2009, 2:17 PM
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Re: [Scrumpot] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

For all those that are anxious to find out, this studly sit suit that Scrumpot referenced is featured in Parachutist on the centerfold for September '07.


surfrgrl1

Jan 21, 2009, 2:37 PM
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Re: [Scrumpot] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Scrumpot's right, definitely a novelty. About once every other season or so, someone pulls it out and makes a jump wearing it. Of course someone else always gets video so they can laugh about it later!

Love the comment on making sure the suits fit dependz!
But like someone else said, for learning, a baggy sweatshirt (secured of course) and shorts always works well and it's super cheap! Probably your best bet for the first few jumps.


JohnDeere  (D License)

Jan 21, 2009, 3:14 PM
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Re: [freefal] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Agree 100%

I beleive Peek is correct in his observation that most FF ers learn just enought sit to get to head (If they learn any at allCrazy)

When i started FF ing my FF coach and mentors advised me that most people dont get good enought at sit before they move to head down. So i spent most of my time getting good at sit. I am just now starting to get more into HD. I always throw a HD exit into the mix every once in a while but goto sit once off the hill or shortlly there after. I am glad i waited and feel very comfortable in the sit position! I beleive it will make me a better FFer.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Jan 22, 2009, 6:24 AM
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, if I recall correctly (I only jumped mine back in the day, even only a few times) - at the end of the day of jumping with one, my shoulders and traps could get pretty sore. I once lent my suit to a guy who said it scared the crap out of him because he thought he was gonna dislocate his shoulder. Because of the air-pockets incorporated into the upper-arms (the "training wheels") it can put an odd extra pressure on your shoulder socket/joint in particular, and I just thought that I would point out now that I am again thinking of it, that this might not be so good for someone with shoulder problems, or a propensity to dislocate that joint either.

I too, at least on solo-sits ("the" thing to do back in the day) found that it was very helpful in getting you head-high (a "freaky" thing to do for a belly-flier) and quickly comfortable with the position. As Peek points out, the next evolution (that passed by quickly) was to figure ways to help folks of vastly varying sizes easily compensate, so we could then effectively jump together. Like the balloon suits of the 70's that preceded it, the sit-suit now adays is clearly passe. Wink


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jan 22, 2009, 10:04 AM
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Re: [surfrgrl1] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Some video including sitsuit flying eh flailing.
It isn't that easy for firsttimers Laugh


jamiem  (B License)

Jan 22, 2009, 11:41 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad I read this thread and saved myself some embarrassment!

I saw a used sit suit at my dz and came thisclose to buying it because I thought about how fabulous it would be in the summertime to wear shorts and not a full jumpsuit! Cool


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jan 23, 2009, 2:50 AM
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Re: [jamiem] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a sitsuit without wings, it's quite nice for jumping in summer or as a freefly top - it will not blow over your handes! Mine was actually made that way but if the suit is really cheap you could buy it and remove the wings.


feuergnom  (D License)

Jan 23, 2009, 7:26 AM
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Re: [dragon2] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

jeeeezuz - sit suits! we've got two of them in our store. they are the exact same colors as in the vid Smile


hparrish  (D 25090)

Jan 25, 2009, 6:56 PM
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Re: [TheCapt] Sit suit? [In reply to] Can't Post

Good Man..........A sit suit won't teach you a thing about sit flying.

Try a coach, or the tunnel, pr a tunnel coach. You'll learn all you need.



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