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ATMONAUTI

 

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VectorBoy  (F 321)

Apr 7, 2008, 10:47 PM
Post #101 of 166 (1861 views)
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Re: [bodypilot1] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

Bastardo! Unimpressed You just made me split out a great glass of wine from laughing so damn hard! LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Culpa Bastardomonauti!


Premier LouDiamond  (D 25931)
Moderator
Apr 7, 2008, 10:51 PM
Post #102 of 166 (1856 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you want to put things into perspective and on the same playing field, the wingsuit instructor program and the discipline would have to make absurd claims.

Nothing absurd about the claim to being an extension of the groundwork laid down by JPF. JP posted this himself in the WS forum, Feb 22 2005 the tread is gone now though.

Well I cannot disagree with this as it is a FACT that everything related to skydiving be it on the ground or in the air was done AGES ago at Davis back when Da Vinci was jumping there.Laugh


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Apr 7, 2008, 11:09 PM
Post #103 of 166 (1852 views)
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Re: [LouDiamond] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Get it right. Da Vinci jumped at Pope Valley........Wink


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Apr 7, 2008, 11:26 PM
Post #104 of 166 (1849 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

Which one of you clowns took down the very funny Atmonauti content from the Wiki site? I wanted a copy of that for my scrapbook.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Apr 8, 2008, 8:48 AM
Post #105 of 166 (1813 views)
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Re: [DSE] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

 Douglas I can assure it was not me. But somewhere in this tread there is a copy of what you are looking for. Hurry before a mod takes it down.


ryoder  (D 6663)

Apr 8, 2008, 9:20 AM
Post #106 of 166 (1817 views)
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Re: [DSE] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Which one of you clowns took down the very funny Atmonauti content from the Wiki site? I wanted a copy of that for my scrapbook.

Go to the page.
Click on the little "History" tab at the top.
All the versions are available by clicking on the date links.

Looking over the comments, it seem the editors feel there has been some "vandalism" of the page.Unsure


diablopilot  (D License)

Apr 8, 2008, 9:44 AM
Post #107 of 166 (1807 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you want to put things into perspective and on the same playing field, the wingsuit instructor program and the discipline would have to make absurd claims.

Nothing absurd about the claim to being an extension of the groundwork laid down by JPF. JP posted this himself in the WS forum, Feb 22 2005 the tread is gone now though.
With such a talent for distorting the truth, you ought to work for fox news.


michalm21  (Student)

Apr 8, 2008, 11:30 AM
Post #108 of 166 (1794 views)
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Re: [ryoder] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

"# (cur) (last) 13:56, 26 March 2008 Mike Vogeleer (Talk | contribs) (572 bytes) (Article was intentionally vandalized by US skydivers who oppose this discipline. It was funny but wikipedia is not the place to do this. Stick to dropzone.com. Removed the jokes from the text.) (undo)"

LOL

Atmonauti (also known as angled flight) is a skydiving term for a type of freeflying jump invented by JP Furnari when he fell in love with Andy Newell and both decided to go toward the sky. On Atmonauti jumps, the participants fly without rig because they don't need it. A guy named Marco Tiezzi saw JP and decided that since JP was an amazing and "astronomical" skydiver, he gave the technique a name. However, "astronomical" translated to Atmonautical in Italian so JP, with his Italian last name, now spreads the gospel according to Marco. Also of note is the fact that JP Furnani also invented the technique known as walkmonauti. Marco Tiezzi claims to have invented Atmonauti, when in actually, the typical skydiver will explain that Atmonauti is merely another form of body tracking. It is a hotly debated subject with skydivers at one position, feeling this technique is a glorification of a technique by a small group of people, and the Atmonauts on the other side, defending their technique with the fervor of a religion.

Atmonauti involves an angled flight body position that places wind over the head before striking the rest of the body. The body is angled in a manner similar to an airplane wing, taking advantage of Bernouli's Principle. However, flatulence (common in Atmonauts) has a significantly beneficial impact on the AoA or Angle of Attack, as it provides thrust for the Atmonaut. Thrust equals speed, and speed equals lift. However, Atmonauts must be precise in their body position in order to enjoy any significant advantage generated by flatulence. JP Furnari demonstrated the benefit of CliffHanger nutrition bars and related flatulence at the Atmonauti Skydiving convention in 1993, where he demonstrated flight with horizontal speeds exceeding 100mph, and vertical speeds of sub-70mph! For those unfamiliar with skydiving speeds, this means he enjoyed nearly 2 minutes of freefall time, surpassing the abilities of many wingsuit jumpers. He is planning on doing an 'Atmonauti Landing' without a parachute, expecting to land on a snow-covered mountain top in either Switzerland or Nevada, whichever location will grant him a waiver to jump without a canopy.

There also exists a sub-discipline, currently undergoing review by the AOBPA (AerOBody Pilot's Association) that is known as Furnaromonauti. The origins of the discipline are disputed; the technique is not. Rolling eyes skyward while performing a basic backtrack, right thumb in right leg strap, left thumb pointing horizontally (think of "Fonzie" in a horizontal position), the legs are held in a relaxed manner, allowing the head, back, and upper thigh to create an airfoil. Toe points are used to maneuver right, left, forward, and backslide. Slightly dipping the chin (almost in an act of humility, which is responsible for the debate of technique origin; Furnari would never humbly hang his head in flight) creates a strong flow of air over the shoulders and abdomen, generating significant lift due to the longer area over the upper body vs the shorter area of the lower body (similar to an aircraft wing).

Many illustrations depict a Furnaronaut on his back in a near-classic Furnaronauti position. Even after the parachute fully deploys, a skilled Atmonaut in a Furnaronauti position will be able to maintain altitude and nearly match speed with, a deployed canopy pilot."


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Apr 8, 2008, 3:48 PM
Post #109 of 166 (1768 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

 you ought to work for fox news.
I'm not here for the truth, I'm here to excel at wingsuits and Atmonauti two of my favorite disciplines. And I owe it all to you brother navigator, I miss you come back to Perris.


(This post was edited by VectorBoy on Apr 8, 2008, 3:53 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Apr 8, 2008, 3:56 PM
Post #110 of 166 (1762 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

No thanks, I don't really wanna be around the next time you send some first timer out in front of a KC-135.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Apr 8, 2008, 7:50 PM
Post #111 of 166 (1748 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

 The DZ has a DC-9 not a KC-135. I'm good but I'm not good enough to fly out in front..... unless I'm doing the atmonauti then there is tremendous lift and speed. Enough to look down into the cockpit of the craft you've just exited from.

JP you are a real America hero for bringing this to us.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Apr 8, 2008, 9:32 PM
Post #112 of 166 (1739 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

I suspect it was one of the mods who wrote that Furnaromonauti page...given the threads.
Funny stuff, thanks for posting.


JohnDeere  (D License)

Apr 13, 2008, 8:43 PM
Post #113 of 166 (1639 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

With such a talent for distorting the truth, you ought to work for fox news.
\
//////////////////////////////////////////////////

Dont you mean ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN.Tongue
They are the masters of distorting the truth.


PWScottIV  (B 30429)

May 9, 2008, 8:58 PM
Post #114 of 166 (1468 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
(that utilises the relative gravitational wind from “below” to achieve a multitude of stable body positions at terminal velocity) is the term given to the technique that intentionally utilises lift to compensate for the effect of gravity, in order to achieve relative wind (or a custom “tube”) at an angle of between 10deg – 65deg, where after the atmonaut (atmosphere navigator) introduces a multitude of three dimensional body positions and transitions, while “falling” at greatly reduced speeds (70mph – 110mph), resulting in extended free-fall time and increased safety.

Adorable!

Dave
lol, it must be nice to "discover" these new forces of nature. I bet future Atmonauts will be so skilled that they'll generate enough lift such that they'll only need to land when they feel like it... They might even be able to land like that... That would be REALLY safe.


PWScottIV  (B 30429)

May 9, 2008, 9:06 PM
Post #115 of 166 (1465 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Today this technique knows several definition and more than one father, like JP Furnari e.g.

I have NEVER claimed to invent anything of the sort.
You don't have to be modest JP... Just admit that you singlehandedly discovered "relative gravitational wind"... It's what makes your new skydiving technique safer, right.Laugh


PWScottIV  (B 30429)

May 9, 2008, 9:15 PM
Post #116 of 166 (1461 views)
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Re: [ryoder] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just went out to the www.atmonauti.com site, (again), and I still see diagrams such as the one which compares atmonauti with tracking, showing that as opposed to tracking where "body line" is at an angle to the relative wind, atmonauti is parallel to it.

That angle is commonly known as "Angle Of Attack". Every wing requires an AOA greater than zero in order to create lift. I have a hard time believing that just by announcing "I'm doing Atmonauti" as I leave the plane, I can violate the laws of physics and create lift with an AOA of zero.
Actually, I think that drawing is mislabeled (must be another english-french translation problem)... That drawing illustrates proper atmonauti landing technique... That's why the guy is about a foot off the deck. Duh.


PWScottIV  (B 30429)

May 9, 2008, 11:19 PM
Post #117 of 166 (1451 views)
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Re: [mciocca] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

 
In reply to:
Atmo tandem without drogue is truly amazing indeed. It is flying at greatly reduced ff speeds... ...100mph/160kmh is common...

Well at least you guys have Relative Gravitational Wind working for ya... I heard that makes freeflying with a tandem super safe.


livendive  (D 21415)

May 11, 2008, 8:06 PM
Post #118 of 166 (1371 views)
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Re: [PWScottIV] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
Today this technique knows several definition and more than one father, like JP Furnari e.g.

I have NEVER claimed to invent anything of the sort.
You don't have to be modest JP... Just admit that you singlehandedly discovered "relative gravitational wind"... It's what makes your new skydiving technique safer, right.Laugh

Fucking awesome! LaughShockedLaugh Those who've seen the discovery channel special on skydiving and myriad other "references" that pulled from the "breathing in freefall" portion of the rec.skydiving FAQ will likely laugh as hard as I did.

Blues,
Dave


PWScottIV  (B 30429)

May 11, 2008, 9:38 PM
Post #119 of 166 (1358 views)
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Re: [livendive] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
Today this technique knows several definition and more than one father, like JP Furnari e.g.

I have NEVER claimed to invent anything of the sort.
You don't have to be modest JP... Just admit that you singlehandedly discovered "relative gravitational wind"... It's what makes your new skydiving technique safer, right.Laugh

Fucking awesome! LaughShockedLaugh Those who've seen the discovery channel special on skydiving and myriad other "references" that pulled from the "breathing in freefall" portion of the rec.skydiving FAQ will likely laugh as hard as I did.

Blues,
Dave
lol, you likey? Laugh


mciocca  (C License)

May 12, 2008, 11:18 AM
Post #120 of 166 (1281 views)
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Re: [PWScottIV] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

Yo scott,

Shouldnt you be out there working on improving that really bad freefly body position you have as your profile pic, rather than trashing disciplines whithin our sport you have no understanding about? Go do something worthwhile, or is this as close as it gets? Tongue


PWScottIV  (B 30429)

May 12, 2008, 11:25 AM
Post #121 of 166 (1285 views)
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Re: [mciocca] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yo scott,

Shouldnt you be out there working on improving that really bad freefly body position you have as your profile pic, rather than trashing disciplines whithin our sport you have no understanding about? Go do something worthwhile, or is this as close as it gets? Tongue
Well, I'm surprised you couldn't tell from the picture, I was working on perfecting my asscheekmonauti. I only have about 100 jumps, so I'm still working on getting my freefall speeds below 80mph... I know that's still pretty fast, but I don't have my astronaut license from your program yet, nor have I mastered Relative Gravitational Wind... JP has been showing me the ways of the force though... Thanks for asking him to help me!

Also, I really have to know... Why did you try to take the credit for theorizing Relative Gravitational Wind? JP isn't very happy about that. Not cool man.Mad


(This post was edited by PWScottIV on May 12, 2008, 12:14 PM)


base_nz  (C 356)

May 12, 2008, 5:58 PM
Post #122 of 166 (1232 views)
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Re: [mciocca] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

Ive had fun with Atmo but seriously... If you keep making all these comments and showing pictures on your web sight that are not scientifically sound people just wont take you seriously.

A guy called Isaac Newton had some interesting ideas on the subject.....But of course.... he'd never tried Atmo Tongue....But im sure he would have changed his mind after trying this much safer much more sociable way of flyingCrazy


(This post was edited by base_nz on May 12, 2008, 6:01 PM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

May 12, 2008, 8:47 PM
Post #123 of 166 (1218 views)
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Re: [base_nz] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done some atmonauti. It was somewhere in between tracking and head down. It was oaky, but I still prefer a tracking dive. All that pseudo physics babble really undermines any credibility those guys could ever get. They may as well just started talking about crystal stones power and pyramid magic.Crazy


PWScottIV  (B 30429)

May 12, 2008, 10:30 PM
Post #124 of 166 (1205 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've done some atmonauti. It was somewhere in between tracking and head down. It was oaky, but I still prefer a tracking dive. All that pseudo physics babble really undermines any credibility those guys could ever get. They may as well just started talking about crystal stones power and pyramid magic.Crazy
Exactly. I'm pretty sure nobody on here has anything against atmonauti. However, when it's supporters attempt to excite people about the physical impossibilities like nearly defying gravity and making skydiving safer solely through adjusting your angle of attack to some special "custom tube", they're destroying the credibility of anyone and everything involved with atmonauti. Which is really what the problem comes down to... The roots of this are obviously a few guys trying to make a profit and possibly some fame in the process. I assume they either think people are stupider than they are, or they themselves are a few tickets short of a threeway. Maybe they didn't consider that on average, skydivers are quite a bit more educated (and probably intelligent) than the average person.

Even if they had come up with something truly new and unique (which this is definitely NEITHER), a better approach to developing some sort of coaching program would be to ask other expert's opinions as opposed to essentially telling them how things are gonna go down. But I guess that would've completely defeated their purpose.Unsure


SPAWNmaster  (C License)

May 15, 2008, 8:12 AM
Post #125 of 166 (1110 views)
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Re: [PWScottIV] ATMONAUTI [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've done some atmonauti. It was somewhere in between tracking and head down. It was oaky, but I still prefer a tracking dive. All that pseudo physics babble really undermines any credibility those guys could ever get. They may as well just started talking about crystal stones power and pyramid magic.Crazy
Exactly. I'm pretty sure nobody on here has anything against atmonauti. However, when it's supporters attempt to excite people about the physical impossibilities like nearly defying gravity and making skydiving safer solely through adjusting your angle of attack to some special "custom tube", they're destroying the credibility of anyone and everything involved with atmonauti. Which is really what the problem comes down to... The roots of this are obviously a few guys trying to make a profit and possibly some fame in the process. I assume they either think people are stupider than they are, or they themselves are a few tickets short of a threeway. Maybe they didn't consider that on average, skydivers are quite a bit more educated (and probably intelligent) than the average person.

Even if they had come up with something truly new and unique (which this is definitely NEITHER), a better approach to developing some sort of coaching program would be to ask other expert's opinions as opposed to essentially telling them how things are gonna go down. But I guess that would've completely defeated their purpose.Unsure


I agree with your first point about some of the claims I have heard about significant amounts of lift being generated.

I have about 20 atmonauti (don't claim to be an expert by any means) jumps. It is an absolute blast and there's a lot to be learnt from it especially for people just getting into the sport such as myself.

What really sold it to me was my alti-track consistently giving 81mph average freefall speeds and that I was getting some serious distance (sorry no gps data) during jumps. I think this is something that really vouches for the legitimacy of extremely slow freefall times as claimed by atmonauti regardless of whether it is caused by any amount of lift being generated or whatever other phenomena it might be.

What's interesting to me as well, is how I cannot achieve these thresholds in regular flat track. Not saying the whole human airfoil is what the deal is but it speaks to the authenticity of atmo as an entirely seperate discipline. What does someone with 56 jumps know about the sport or tracking jumps? Not much, it's just my opinion.

I have low jump numbers and little experience in most disciplines (atmo and freefly being what I do all the time these days) so take my opinions with a grain of salt!!!

but like I said, I do agree how it makes the discipline look bad when some people make outrageous statements.



now...

I would like to think that Tiezzi and Ciocca and some of the other big names of the discipline are not trying just to make a profit out of this or get some fame. I do not know any of them in person so would like to give them the benefit of the doubt wouldn't you? It's a bit cynical to think otherwise, unless you have examples of why this might be true.


also....

As far as the proposed coaching program, I think you are mistaken in thinking they are not qualified in taking the initiative and putting something forth. That I know of, Marco Ciocca has over 2000 jumps and is a Pro-rated wingsuit instructor and IAD jumpmaster. Tiezzi has significant qualifications as well and there are plenty other advocates of the discipline (i'm sure) who are well qualified to develop concepts like this too.

No where did Marco or anyone else say "this is the way it goes down." I'm sure if you sent him an email or PM with critiques of the program especially if you are an instructor and have experience developing coaching programs, they would probably adopt some of your ideas to develop a stronger program.

my 2cts


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