Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
DB Cooper

 

First page Previous page 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 2251 Next page Last page  View All

Orange1  (B License)

Feb 15, 2008, 9:10 AM
Post #176 of 56251 (56693 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Believe it or not they had pretty good autopilots 65 years ago in WW2 bombers such as the B 24. It is very fatiguing hand flying planes with unboosted controls for hours and hours. Autopilots really helped on the the raids from the UK to Germany. We might be speaking German today if not for Mr. Norden (computing bombsight) and Mr Sperry (gyro controlled autopilot). The Norden bombsight and the Sperry autopilot actually worked together on the final run to the target. The bombardier flew the plane through bombsight generated correction inputs sent to the autopilot by wire.

wow... now THAT was interesting!! Cool


skyjack71

Feb 15, 2008, 8:48 PM
Post #177 of 56251 (56628 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
. if I pinpoint it on a map then someone with the forestry dept records should be able to tell us what was there in 1979 and 1971.

Life's ups and downs ----- Found out today that the site of the towers is now developed - homes with lots of land behind them - what we would call mini-farms or ranchettes in FL. An area above the site looked to me like a golf course. Sluggo supplied the maps by way of computer - and I feel sure we had the right area of the towers. I have been been told that this area was not part of the National Forest, but privately owned land. I am able to bring it down to around (to be safe) 200 acres - that to me is a small farm - I was raised on acreage that exceed that.

I was there in 1979 - that was 29 yrs ago. This is what I actually expected just remembering what happened to the farms where I was raised. What was a farm is now very nice homes fronting the hwy with very large lots, a Hampton Inn, etc.

They call this progress, but explains why new furniture is made of something that only resembles wood.

hoping that I can at least verify the towers where there in 1971 and at least one of them removed by 1979. I could tract the ownership of the property,
but do not see what purpose this would server - other than curiosity. Maybe Bernie owned it.

AND SO - life goes on. I don't know how much more I can do - other than a witness coming forward and putting him on the plane. I am able to track him from this point to the "hideouts" and back to the Columbia. Exactly where he landed is unknown to me - because the walked thru the woods to this tower and shed...but from where? What did he bury behind the shed and did he retrieve it - because of what he said "I buried something behind a shed that used to be there at one time" - this to me indicates he retrieved whatever it was.

Copyright 2008 by Jo Weber

Hey Bernie - how did you get a copyright icon? Not that it protects anything - Like Airtwardo said - that is why he ownes a dictionary - then he ownes all the words in it. By the way I am Not Writing a Book, but you might be D.B. Cooper.


Guru312  (C 6814)

Feb 16, 2008, 7:40 AM
Post #178 of 56251 (56582 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey Bernie - how did you get a copyright icon? Not that it protects anything

I did it using the Word "Insert-Symbol" menu and then "Copy/Paste" into the DZ.com thread. You can Copy the symbol from my post and paste it into your posts.

There are quite a few misconceptions about copyrights. Take a look at this: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

Remember that this is an international forum and therefore copyright law gets more confusing. I've been unable to find an official statement regarding who owns our words on DZ.com. I disagree with Quade's comment which is why I posted my two-line poem.

By the way, my dictionary is bigger than airtwardo's dictionary.Tongue


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 16, 2008, 11:42 AM
Post #179 of 56251 (56552 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Guru312] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way, my dictionary is bigger than airtwardo's dictionary. Tongue

In reply to:

Ya know...they do make 'em without pictures for every word! Angelic


low_pull1

Feb 17, 2008, 9:46 AM
Post #180 of 56251 (56479 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Cooper Coda [In reply to] Can't Post

"they find some of the bills in the original bundles and the door placard from the 727, but NONE of the big stuff (canopy, rig, briefcase, dummy reserve, body, etc)."

maybe weber??


Guru312  (C 6814)

Feb 17, 2008, 3:48 PM
Post #181 of 56251 (56447 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airtwardo] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
By the way, my dictionary is bigger than airtwardo's dictionary. Tongue

In reply to:

Ya know...they do make 'em without pictures for every word! Angelic

I'm sure they do but my illustrated dictionary shows a picture of my dictionary next to your dictionary and mine is almost twice as big as yours.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 17, 2008, 5:00 PM
Post #182 of 56251 (56432 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Guru312] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
By the way, my dictionary is bigger than airtwardo's dictionary. Tongue

In reply to:

Ya know...they do make 'em without pictures for every word! Angelic

I'm sure they do but my illustrated dictionary shows a picture of my dictionary next to your dictionary and mine is almost twice as big as yours.

So...yours has pictures, but is to big to hold up with one hand huh? Angelic

It's next to Useless! Sly


skyjack71

Feb 18, 2008, 12:14 AM
Post #183 of 56251 (56393 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Guru312] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
By the way, my dictionary is bigger than airtwardo's dictionary

In reply to:
I'm sure they do but my illustrated dictionary shows a picture of my dictionary next to your dictionary and mine is almost twice as big as yours.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This bantering made me remember something about Duane that I had forgot - are you sure you Guys didn't know him? All of this mine is bigger than yours - made me chuckle with this memory.

'Worlds Greatest Jock Ball Carrier" - not sure if I am remembering that correctly since I considered it distasteful at the time. He was bantering this same way with someone on the CB - regarding this handle.

Strange --- the things that trigger a memory. I wonder if I will ever forget the things he told me and be able to let them go. Because I didn't understand what he was telling me I didn't keep the things I should have kept....nor did I search that van like I should have.

I was trying to remember the number of times that Cooper may have entered the conversation...over a 17 yr period of time. Less than a handful and one
being the remark "That's where Cooper walked out of the woods". A second time was when I saw an article in the newpaper one morning after the money was found in 1980. Newpaper got carried with him that morning ...a wk or two later he makes weekday arrangements to go out socializing on the night they were going to feature Cooper in a program.

The third time was in Va. when he showed me where Richard McCoy died - and who he was. When I think back on that - it was very Odd that he even told me that and I am not sure he mentioned Cooper in that conversation. In that same time span one night with a few too many - he cried (the only time in my life I saw him cry) - he was sad - he was the reason another man was dead...but never offered an explanation.

The fourth time is when he said "I'm Dan Cooper" 11 days before he died. Frankly I can't remember the other time - or if there was one. I was aware of who Cooper was and I remember the article in the paper from 1971, but I am not really sure that he and I ever discussed Cooper beyond the above.

That leaves me one time that I may have forgotten about - If he had talked about Cooper a lot or one to pull cruel jokes - It would be easy to walk away.
I am still exploring a couple of things in regards to the tie and the area in WA where the tower and shed was...but beyond that - it is a dead end.

Copyright © 2008 by Jo Weber


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 18, 2008, 12:17 AM)


377  (F 666)

Feb 18, 2008, 6:32 AM
Post #184 of 56251 (56365 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

" He was bantering this same way with someone on the CB - regarding this handle."

Just how involved in CB radio was Duane? What kind of gear did he have? How long had he been involved with CB radio?


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 18, 2008, 7:36 PM
Post #185 of 56251 (56306 views)
Shortcut
Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

In Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia: D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking (the old thread), I asked (in post # 1467):
Ckret,
I’m doing some research, and there is something I need to know.
Did Cooper request V-23 or did the pilot(s) select V-23?
I have seen so much stuff (mostly on the Internet) in the last 20 years that either downright state that Cooper requested/demanded V-23 or implies it. I’ve also seen information that says the pilots selected V-23 because of the low altitude demanded by Cooper and the original destination demand (Mexico).
Also, did he state a location in Mexico in his “Fly this plane to _____” demand?

Ckret responded in Post #1473:
Neither requested Victor 23. The pilots and NWA flight operations wanted to fly out to the coast and where waiting for clearance to do so. It was not until just before takeoff that they were cleared through Sacramento via Victor 23.
Cooper originally stated they could land anywhere in Mexico but after discussion he agreed to Reno. Of course we know now Cooper could have cared less because he wasn't going to be on the plane anywhere near any of those locations.

Also, in Post #1607 Ckret said:
Cooper never requested a flight path, he never requested an update from the flight crew and no one reported he even had on a watch that he could have timed wheels up. Also, V 23 is not the only low altitude route south from Seatac.
Conclusion, Cooper had little idea where he was when he jumped.

I have been doing some research (for about 3 weeks) and I am ready to state “Cooper knew EXACTLY where he was when he jumped”. It may (at first glance) appear that he made no demands on the pilots or flight operations, but actually he did. But, he did it in the way a magician uses re-direction to make a person (victim) think he/she has made a “free-will” choice, but instead is “forced into the choice” that the magician wants.

I have a large amount of data to back up my assertions, but I will only post what the members of this board want to see. So, if you need proof, ask for it. Otherwise, I assume that you will accept that I have carefully considered my position on this. This will keep me from clogging the board with maps and Microsoft Word documents that most people are not interested in.

Here’s what I have done, and some of my assertions:

Cooper’s Demands:
Cooper told the flight crew he had a bomb and showed them something that made them believe it was true.
He asked to be flown to Mexico (with no particular destination). This has been interpreted by most to be an “un-demand", but remember this fact: All of Mexico is East of SEA-TAC. I will rephrase this to put it in a better context for this discussion. There is NO PART of Mexico that is West of SEA-TAC. Therefore the nearest destination that is in Mexico is the Gen Abelardo L. Rodriguez International Airport just across the border from Brown Field Municipal Airport in Chula Vista, California.
He demanded an unusual (for a cross country flight) configuration that would limit range before refueling (due to a fuel burn that was 2.2 times greater than normal) and what terrain the plane could fly over. Such as flaps at 15 deg, airspeed less that 200 statute mph, aft stairs lowered, and DO NOT EXCEED 10,000 feet MSL).

Available Routes (See Attached file “Four-Low-Altitude-Routes-ANN RED”:
As Ckret says V-23 is not the only low-level Victor Airway South from SEA-TAC. Yes there is one other V-27 (the coastal route), and if you choose to go East then South there are two more. I will list all the available routes and some characteristics of each (below I have given them the #s 1 – 4 for convenience):
NOTE: MEA = Minimum Enroute Altitude; MOCA = Minimum Obstruction Clearance Altitude; and OROCA = Off Route Obstruction Clearance Altitude. The least important of these is OROCA because it is only an issue if you are off the Victor Airway.

DATA For Victor Two-Seven (Route #1)
Total Track Length is 1243 Statute Miles.
Highest MEA is 8000 feet Mean Sea Level (MSL)
Highest MOCA is 5200 feet MSL.
Highest OROCA is 11,100.

DATA For Victor Two-Three (Route #2)
Total Track Length is 1114 Statute Miles.
Highest MEA is 10,000 feet Mean Sea Level (MSL)
Highest MOCA is 9400 feet MSL.
Highest OROCA is 16,300.

DATA For Victor Four and Victor Two-Five (Route #3)
Total Track Length is 1220 Statute Miles.
Highest MEA is 12,000 feet Mean Sea Level (MSL)
Highest MOCA is 9600 feet MSL.
Highest OROCA is 16,700.

DATA For Victor Four, Two-One, and Two-Three (Route #4)
Total Track Length is 1414 Statute Miles.
Highest MEA is 10,300 feet Mean Sea Level (MSL)
Highest MOCA is 9000 feet MSL.
Highest OROCA is 16,700.

Eliminating Routes:
Routes #3 and #4 can be eliminated without further discussion because the track length is long and (more importantly) the MEA is over 10,000 ft MSL. If you have a crazy man in the cabin, he says he has a bomb, and you believe him, you aren’t going to travel at an altitude higher than he specifies (the bomb may explode at higher than 10,000 ft), plus, you have the aft stairs open (unpressurized) so you need to be on oxygen at above 10,000.

That leaves Victor Two-Seven and Victor Two-Three.

Victor Two-Seven looks the best with regard to altitude, but there are two problems with it. First, it is 129 statute miles longer (I think over-water flight requires 1 hour reserve fuel rather than the standard 30 min, but I didn’t include this in my calculations due to uncertainty). Also, you lose a “degree of freedom” by flying on the coast. In other words, in an emergency you can only go east to find an emergency landing site (on land) and surely a nut-case with a bomb might precipitate an emergency.

That leaves Victor 23 as the only “real choice”. Cooper knew that given the parameters for flight the only viable Victor Airway Southeast (Remember Mexico is Southeast of SEA-TAC) was V-23. So, even thought Ckret is right to say “Cooper never requested a flight path” he is wrong in his assumption; “Cooper had little idea where he was when he jumped”.

The flight parameters Cooper gave the crew when he requested the vague destination of “Mexico” guaranteed they would take V-23. When the plan changed to Reno as a re-fuel destination, it fit right into V-23 as the only route.

Could the flight have been vectored by the FAA instead of following the Victor airways? Yes, of course, but, if you were going to direct a 727 flying at 10,000 feet, with the aft stairs down, flaps at 15 deg, and flying just above stall-speed, are you going to “wing it” or follow an established route that is cleared for low-altitude IFR flight.

So, now he knows he is going to be following V-23. All he needs is (even a cheap) compass. The plane leaves SEATAC flying a heading of 178 deg. It maintains that heading until the MALAY Fix, where it turns 27 deg left (his body may not sense it, but the compass will). Then the flight proceeds to the Battle Ground VORTAC (BTG) where it turns back right 24 deg. Now he jumps into the flat, farmlands, and he knows exactly where he his, whether he can see objects on the ground or not.

Please give me critical feedback. Especially if you are an FAR Part 121 (Passenger Carrying) Pilot and/or flew in the PAC NW in the 60s and 70s. I don’t want to be right only in my mind; I want to be right beyond all doubt. If I can get critical feedback and refine the (considerable) work I’ve done on this, then we can “put to bed” the notion that Cooper didn’t know where he was when he jumped. It doesn’t address all those other issues, but establishes a foundation for understanding exactly where he jumped.

Thanks for your patience with this long post,

Sluggo_Monster


(This post was edited by Sluggo_Monster on Feb 18, 2008, 7:48 PM)
Attachments: Four-Low-Altitude-Routes-ANN RED.jpg (78.1 KB)


low_pull1

Feb 18, 2008, 7:49 PM
Post #186 of 56251 (56300 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

JO, state what you stated to me in private about "Chuck" in VA or West Va! this may/does tie Duane to Skydiving. The people on here will know for sure.


low_pull1

Feb 18, 2008, 7:55 PM
Post #187 of 56251 (56297 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Jo,
Were Duane and McCoy a team? Was "Chuck " tied to the team? Chuck was from VA ow W VA too

in ref to:

"he third time was in Va. when he showed me where Richard McCoy died - and who he was. When I think back on that - it was very Odd that he even told me that and I am not sure he mentioned Cooper in that conversation. In that same time span one night with a few too many - he cried (the only time in my life I saw him cry) - he was sad - he was the reason another man was dead...but never offered an explanation. "


skyjack71

Feb 19, 2008, 12:22 AM
Post #188 of 56251 (56273 views)
Shortcut
Re: [low_pull1] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jo,
Were Duane and McCoy a team? Was "Chuck " tied to the team? Chuck was from VA ow W VA too

How can anyone get that statement out of the following PRIVATE EMAIL..

My edited private email to Low_pull.
=====================================
"I had noted that you gave no name in the profile, but your answers in the Cooper site where very logical and to the point...the site has more or less fizzled lately.

Aren't you supposed to be in Australia...Chuck?
I just gave you a name - are you a Chuck. Kidding, but that name is on my mind lately - a man I whose name I do not remember just his first name and I have a picture of him - he was a skydiver.....Duane had access to his home on more than one occasion.

I don't know where I am going here - the things Duane told me were prior to 1983 when we first met this man - so that would not make sense. I guess I would like to find this man again and ask him if he by chance had any suspicions about Duane in any way what-so-ever...like conversations Duane had with him and another neighbor...about jumping and the war...both WW2 and Viet Nam. If they thought he was a Bull Shitter or if there was anything that stood out about him that they felt unusual.

This Chuck - his wife was also a jumper and the lived in Virgina Bch, VA - cannot remember the last name...his wife was blond and very petite. How would I go about finding them...I guess I just can't let this die - somewhere there is an answer?

------------------------------------------------------------
I edited out part of this as it was not meant to be posted in PUBLIC.
I also deleted a paragraph and part of another paragraph -- I was trying to think my way thru a memory.
-----------------------------------------------------------

More of the PM as I wrote it:

"This thing is literally driving me crazy - it has consumed my life - I need to find a way to let go of it. Maybe the only way I am going to do that is to go to WA and do what I have said I was going to do - bury him there...it seems appropriate now...a with it try to leave him behind and to leave this crazy search that he embarked me upon behind.

It is my fault for not understanding what he was trying to tell me and not keeping the things that I got rid of - whatever was in that van was the clue I needed - he was specific in tell me there was something in that van - but he didn't tell me where it was. I know I looked where the man who bought it said he found the wallet - that tell me that there was something else and that he removed it - maybe a few of the bills."
------------------------------------------------------------

I never indicated that this person was in anyway involved in anything. He was just a neighbor - nice neigbors and he and his wife were skydivers...I was thinking on paper like I always do."

I trust people and when I talk to others by PM - they know I am thinking with my fingers. It is how I survive with all of this stuff in my head.... BUT, please don't make something of it that it is not intended to be.

Copyright ©2008 by Jo Weber


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:18 AM)


skyjack71

Feb 19, 2008, 12:48 AM
Post #189 of 56251 (56270 views)
Shortcut
Re: [low_pull1] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jo,
Were Duane and McCoy a team? Was "Chuck " tied to the team? Chuck was from VA ow W VA too

in ref to:

"The third time was in Va. when he showed me where Richard McCoy died - and who he was. When I think back on that - it was very Odd that he even told me that and I am not sure he mentioned Cooper in that conversation. In that same time span one night with a few too many - he cried (the only time in my life I saw him cry) - he was sad - he was the reason another man was dead...but never offered an explanation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you get a connection to McCoy out of that?
I was remembering things from our past - anything he may have said to me that even remotely could be connected and you take and make my WORDS into what they are not .

SmileFor anyone who wants an explanations of the reason he cried: I don't know - there was no indications Duane knew McCoy - but he knew that he had died in Va and where.....

Because McCoy was a copycat and because Duane felt responsible...did you even think that this might be why he departed from a life of crime to go straight - GUILT - Duane was a thief and not a murderer. I am sure when he found out his copycat got killed by the FBI and that the FBI agent had stated that when he killed McCoy that he killed Cooper. He was the reason McCoy died.

How do you think that statement made a man feel who was a MOUSE? Duane would let himself get stomped before letting someone else get hurt. THAT's why he cried ... because he was responsible for McCoy's death.

Copyright©2008 by Jo Weber


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 19, 2008, 1:09 AM)


skyjack71

Feb 19, 2008, 2:11 AM
Post #190 of 56251 (56256 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
" He was bantering this same way with someone on the CB - regarding this handle."

Just how involved in CB radio was Duane? What kind of gear did he have? How long had he been involved with CB radio?

He had a good set-up in 1978 and later on he got a better one...but we traveled almost every week from Ft.Collins, CO to Jasper and Gillett and Cheyenne. Got caught in a few white-outs, but he kept the car equipped enough to survive if we got stranded. Butane cannisters, blankets, large sleeping bag, juices, and canned goods...of course the usual signs to put on top of your car...one item most never carry - a spare battery in a case...not as big as a car battery...

Traveling WY - he talked about Montana and Idaho -Coeur de Alene. When we were offered the opportunity to work Spokane he refused to even go visit - because it was too close to this other place. I have often thought this might have a connection to the mother of his daug...I never sound either one.
He spoke of Bitteroot - in that same conversation.

Whatever it was in Coeur de Alene he was not going to go there nor was he going to work Spokane or anywhere near there.

He was very familiar with WA and OR - for a man who according to the FBI didn't even spend time in jail there (they would later refute that statement) he sure knew the area. I noted to Ckret that there was an alias on Duane's SanQuentin and Folsom records - Wayne Webber and Wayne Weber. SO prior to 1951 Duane was this other guy. Some of the yrs between 1944 and 1951 I were spent in those areas, but the FBI won't even look at it.

I believe the ranger training and exposure to jumpers was in that time frame. They may have been smoke jumpers or drug runners or mafia connected...but I know that the link lies there in that span of yrs.

Could run an ad in the papers - but who would remember that young feller from those yrs - most would be senile or dead...dumb idea. I have made some phone calls and sent out emails...to the forestry divisions...no one wants to search old records.

Way more information that anyone wants to know.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 19, 2008, 2:17 AM)


377  (F 666)

Feb 19, 2008, 4:01 AM
Post #191 of 56251 (56242 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Repost from locked Cooper forum:

"CB walkie talkies were widely available in 1971 and had RF power ranges of 0.1 to 5 watts in the 27 MHz band. Range HUGELY depended on terrain between the two units. In 1963 when I was a kid I had a Lafayette 0.1 watt single channel CB walkie talkie. It wasn't the toy type, it had 10 transistors and a good double conversion superhet receiver. My friend had one too.

We could get about half a mile in thick forest, but between high hilltops, we once got 9.3 miles and the reception was quite clear. The 5 watt units would have better range. If Cooper had an accomplice positioned on a mountaintop, and Cooper had a line of sight to that peak, it is VERY likely that they could talk to each other for 10 miles or more with cheap (30-80 dollars) CB walkie talkies of that era. That still leaves a serious problem arranging a rendezvous since Cooper could probably not tell exactly where he was. Being able to communicate is not the same as being able to locate."

Proves nothing but Duane's use of CB radio is interesting.


377  (F 666)

Feb 19, 2008, 4:53 AM
Post #192 of 56251 (56236 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

Very interesting Sluggo, and clever as all hell, but there is no indication that Cooper actually did this. You likely would have made a better Cooper than Cooper himself. If Cooper had your brains, he definitely survived, invested in Microsoft, and is retired comfortably.


Albert18

Feb 19, 2008, 7:15 AM
Post #193 of 56251 (56214 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

Consider this Sluggo, where Cooper walked on the airplane in Portland and the area where he jumped are very close. Yet this is considered a coincidence.

I will repeat that, the point where he started the hijacking and the point where he bailed are very close. If that isn't a clue, I don't know what is.


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 19, 2008, 9:21 AM
Post #194 of 56251 (56183 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Albert18] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Albert18, Post: Consider this Sluggo, where Cooper walked on the airplane in Portland and the area where he jumped are very close. Yet this is considered a coincidence.

I will repeat that, the point where he started the hijacking and the point where he bailed are very close. If that isn't a clue, I don't know what is.

Okay, you went further than I was willing to go until I could get folks to accept the assertions in my previous post. So, now that you have let the cat out of the bag.... here goes:

In 1971 there was a small (about 1100 ft) grass airstrip 0.9 statute miles NE of the Battle Ground VORTAC. Do you want me to prove it?

Park car--> Get friend or Taxi-->Go to PDX-->
Do the deed--> Jump at BTG VOR-->
walk .25 to 2.0 miles to car-->Drive into history-->

Who knows?

See Attached Map: The Communications Tower is the BTG VORTAC the landing strip is .855 miles NNE.
Attachments: Mystery-Airport-RED.jpg (98.0 KB)


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 19, 2008, 9:53 AM
Post #195 of 56251 (56176 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are two more ariel photos:

The B&W was taken 07/15/1990, it looks like it was maybe an ultra-lite field but it could be a farm strip (1100 feet).

The color was taken 05-21-2005 (I believe) it was sometime near there (I'll have to dig out the correct date). <UPDATE: It was updated 01/06/2008 >

See what I mean?


(This post was edited by Sluggo_Monster on Feb 19, 2008, 10:08 AM)
Attachments: Mystery-Airport 07-15-1990.jpg (93.7 KB)
  Mystery-Airport 05-21-2005.jpg (97.1 KB)


377  (F 666)

Feb 19, 2008, 10:28 AM
Post #196 of 56251 (56164 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like a decent DZ to me, but Cooper had to be a navigation genius and have incredibly good luck to have actually exited over this precise area BY DESIGN. I wonder if there was anything that could be seen from a 727 at 10K that would have indicated he was over the VOR station? Do VOR radial antenna arrays (which are not very high) have distinctive lights when they are located off airport?

If Cooper exited here and managed to pull the ripcord handle, he survived, in my opinion.


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 19, 2008, 10:29 AM)


mark  (D 6108)

Feb 19, 2008, 10:38 AM
Post #197 of 56251 (56158 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wonder if there was anything that could be seen from a 727 at 10K that would have indicated he was over the VOR station? Do VOR radial antenna arrays (which are not very high) have distinctive lights when they are located off airport?

No, and no.

Mark


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 19, 2008, 1:09 PM
Post #198 of 56251 (56135 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mark] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Reply To
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I wonder if there was anything that could be seen from a 727 at 10K that would have indicated he was over the VOR station? Do VOR radial antenna arrays (which are not very high) have distinctive lights when they are located off airport?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you guys are missing something;

SEA-TAC Heading 178° [Enroute L-1]
MCKEN Heading 178° [Enroute L-1]
MALAY Turn to Heading 150.93°(27.07° Left) [Enroute L-1]
BTG VORTAC Turn to Heading 175° (24.07° Right) [Enroute L-1]

Those two turns (27.07° and 24.07°) can be easily seen on even a cheap compass. Maybe not accurately enough for navigation, but enough to do what your body won't (sense the turns). He knows he's on V-23 (previous long post) so all he has to do is wait for the second turn and then jump.

To me, the key is: He knew he was on V-23. Then all he had to do was wait for the turns. My long post explains why (I think) he knew he would only be on V-23.

I get the feeling that I'm not coming through clearly. Keep asking questions.

The Chart to look at is Enroute L-1, mabe I can post a copy later.

Sluggo_Monster


mark  (D 6108)

Feb 19, 2008, 1:41 PM
Post #199 of 56251 (56125 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... all he had to do was wait for the turns.

The jet was moving along at 120 mph or knots; two miles every minute.

The turn at the VOR cannot be instantaneous. So should he jump at the beginning of the turn or at the end of the turn? Does the turn begin before the VOR and cut the corner, so to speak, or does it begin at the VOR and tear-drop on course? How much time should he allow to walk down the stairs? Should he practice once or twice? And how does he compensate for a crosswind?

Also, the existence of an airstrip near the VOR doesn't mean anything if he's just using it as a place to park a getaway car.

Mark


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Feb 19, 2008, 1:56 PM
Post #200 of 56251 (56119 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mark] Take This Plane To Mexico [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Also, the existence of an airstrip near the VOR doesn't mean anything if he's just using it as a place to park a getaway car.

Maybe he just parked the car at the VOR...

ltdiver


First page Previous page 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... 2251 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Skydiving History & Trivia

 


Search for (options)