Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
DB Cooper

 

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skyjack71

Feb 12, 2008, 10:22 PM
Post #151 of 56507 (57862 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
. If Cooper was wet (very likely) then heat transfer out of his body would go faster. I don't know of any experienced skydivers who would make Cooper's jump in the clothes we think Cooper wore.

A cabin on the Columbia - a car parked in an area that he eventually made his way back to - several days later....but then he maybe he just left it. With the dye washed out of his hair and pair of coveralls such as a mechanic or farmer would wear - he would never have been noticed.

THe chuter provide some warmth, but he kept moving that first night - he had to push it. A shed and the chute - but then he had to bury the chute. Wonder what forest ranger had his coveralls missing when he went out on the next dig?


377  (F 666)

Feb 12, 2008, 10:49 PM
Post #152 of 56507 (57854 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

How would Cooper know where he was after landing at night and in the rain? How could he find his way to the cabin or car without being seen by searchers or suspicious residents? The circumstances of his exit make it very unlikely that he could have made a planned landing within a day's walk from a planted car or previously identified cabin. A wet canopy would not offer any significant insulation in my opinion. Duane might have been Cooper, but as of yet I have not seen proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Lets say for argument's sake that Duane was involved in the caper. What evidence makes him the jumper rather than a ground based accomplice? I am keeping an open mind, but also healthy skepticism. Don't take it as a personal attack Jo, it isn't. I want to know the truth as much as you do.


Albert18

Feb 13, 2008, 2:30 PM
Post #153 of 56507 (57784 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

You have to remember the authorities didn't even know he had left the airplane until after it had landed in Reno. That was after 10PM. There was no search for him that night. The aircrew of that flight did the FBI no favors.

How that aircrew could sit up in the cockpit while some nut is in the back with what could have been a real bomb and make no attempt to know what he is doing, is one of the things I find incredible in this story. They had to assume the bomb is real and why would they think he would take it with him. Isn't it possible he would activate the bomb and then jump.

The aircrew in the McCoy case was much more proactive and the results showed.


377  (F 666)

Feb 13, 2008, 2:56 PM
Post #154 of 56507 (57775 views)
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Re: [Albert18] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Its pretty hard to second guess the crew. They landed unharmed so they didnt do so badly if you judge by the result. I am not sure what I would have done differently if I were in the left seat. Your job isnt to apprehend criminals, it is to keep your pax and crew safe. Almost all "bombs" shown to bank tellers, pilots etc are fake. I wonder if the pilots assumed that and just let Cooper do his thing unimpeded knowing that if they did, it was less likely that he would harm them. I think the NWA crew did a decent job under the circumstances. Cooper was a criminal, but he didnt injure anyone. A real rat would have killed the crew so they could not have identified him.


skyjack71

Feb 13, 2008, 6:27 PM
Post #155 of 56507 (57745 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How would Cooper know where he was after landing at night and in the rain? How could he find his way to the cabin or car without being seen by searchers or suspicious residents?

Because - by the next morning when they first started looking....he was below the seach area they were concentrating on. Using the chute like a rain coat was just a throw out - /speculation. One thing for sure he didn't leave it where he landed and that is a fact....why leave a trail? The FBI had no idea Cooper was going right back at them. You are right he did not hit his target area - that is a given from the things the told me and showed me.

By the way we have a MOLE in the thread who is using anything I write for his own benefit - (by the way is that legal)? I am calling some individuals I know in WA. and the Forestry Dept. tomorrow.

Today I had Dr.s appts. and rightt now I have to go leave - think I am going to the ER.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 13, 2008, 6:38 PM)


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 13, 2008, 7:26 PM
Post #156 of 56507 (57732 views)
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Re: [quade] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post

This is shamefully off-topic, but, please indulge me, just this once.


First, I am a big NASCAR fan, and secondly, (after 377 suggested I do an AFF) I have been perusing the forums on skydiver.com to just try to learn about skydiving and skydivers. I knew a little because I had a friend and co-worker (at a previous job) who jumps (his home DZ is Richland Skysports in Richland, WA). But, I wanted to really get inside your heads. I spent almost a day reading forum posts and I learned a lot about the skydiving community.

So, today Im catching up on the pre-Daytona 500 news and I ran across this article:

Vickers skydives: #83-Red Bull Racing driver Brian Vickers completed his first skydiving jump - Solo - yesterday under the guidance of the Red Bull Air Force, a group of air savvy professionals who specialize in skydiving. Vickers spent the first half of his day at Skyventure Orlando in a skydiving wind tunnel with the RBAF simulating the motions he'd feel in the sky and taking an Accelerated Free Fall (AFF) class that allowed him to complete his skydiving mission solo - not tandem, like most first time jumpers. Vickers jumped at Skydive Deland.
(TRB PR)(2-13-2008)

Well, I guess an adrenaline junkie is an adrenaline junkie no matter how you get your fix. I guess we all have (at least that) in common.

When 377 suggested I do an AFF, I thought he was referencing a "tandem jump". I never dreamed that you could do a solo free-fall on your first jump!

Cheers,

Sluggo_Monster
A.K.A. Sluggo and Wonder Warthog
Attachments: brian_vickers.jpg (6.87 KB)


skyjack71

Feb 13, 2008, 8:51 PM
Post #157 of 56507 (57714 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A real rat would have killed the crew so they could not have identified him.

Who would have been flying the plane? 377, for one of the smartest guys here that was the dumbest thing anyone could say...how many did you have to drink tonight? I am usually the one to open mouth and insert foot Smile

I just had a big HIT of prednisone and it wasn't in a glass...now I have to soak in the tub with two Frown darn it cups of Baking Soda.

ShockedI guess my sense of humor is still intact.


AggieDave  (D License)

Feb 13, 2008, 8:56 PM
Post #158 of 56507 (57713 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Who would have been flying the plane? 377, for one of the smartest guys here that was the dumbest thing anyone could say...how many did you have to drink tonight? I am usually the one to open mouth and insert foot

You do realize that the only thing that the pilots and crew does is take off, land and take care of any problems that arise. They click in the headings and altitudes and the plane flies its self quite well.


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 13, 2008, 10:52 PM
Post #159 of 56507 (57701 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Im sure youve heard the old joke:

Q: Whats the crew compliment for the Boeing 757/767?
A: Two the Captain and a Doberman. The Captain is just there to feed the Doberman.
Q: Then whats the Doberman for?
A: To keep the Captain from touching the controls! Sly


(This post was edited by Sluggo_Monster on Feb 13, 2008, 10:53 PM)


Orange1  (B License)

Feb 14, 2008, 11:36 AM
Post #160 of 56507 (57635 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
By the way we have a MOLE in the thread who is using anything I write for his own benefit - (by the way is that legal)? .

It's a public forum on the internet. I'm not aware of any copyright notices here. I'm sure if there were tey would be used to stop journalists using stuff from the incidents forum.


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 11:53 AM
Post #161 of 56507 (57625 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
A real rat would have killed the crew so they could not have identified him.

Who would have been flying the plane? 377, for one of the smartest guys here that was the dumbest thing anyone could say...how many did you have to drink tonight? I am

Jo,

The autopilot would be flying, sometimes he goes by the name of IRON MIKE. I have spent a lot of cockpit jumpseat hours in 747s, DC 10s and L 1011s when I worked for an avionics company. I'd say 98% of the time the plane was on autopilot. Once, in an L 1011, the crew demoed a hands off landing at Heathrow, flown right to runway contact by the autopilot. It was pretty amazing.

377


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 11:59 AM
Post #162 of 56507 (57621 views)
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Re: [Sluggo_Monster] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post

 

When 377 suggested I do an AFF, I thought he was referencing a "tandem jump". I never dreamed that you could do a solo free-fall on your first jump!

Cheers,

Sluggo_Monster
A.K.A. Sluggo and Wonder Warthog
Sluggo,

If you are gonna be a serious Cooper sleuth you should make an AFF jump. Really. It will change your life and you will have a hell of a good time doing it. Any time something seems daunting you can think back and say: "if I jumped out of a plane and landed on my own I CAN do this."

I wonder if Cooper had similar thoughts post caper?

377


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 12:02 PM
Post #163 of 56507 (57619 views)
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Re: [Orange1] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
By the way we have a MOLE in the thread who is using anything I write for his own benefit - (by the way is that legal)? .

It's a public forum on the internet. I'm not aware of any copyright notices here. I'm sure if there were tey would be used to stop journalists using stuff from the incidents forum.

Jo,

Orange is right, it's 100% legal unless someone is republishing big blocks of content verbatim from this website. What do you mean "using for their own benefit?" We are all doing that. Is he writing a book or article? If he is mining this forum for material I don't think it will make the best seller list.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 14, 2008, 12:48 PM)


Guru312  (C 6814)

Feb 14, 2008, 12:02 PM
Post #164 of 56507 (57616 views)
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Re: [Orange1] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not aware of any copyright notices here.

Hmmm. This is an interesting point.

Quade, can you clarify for us who owns the material we post on dropzone.com?

Does D4DR Media own what we write or does the person posting own the copyright?

On Slashdot.org, a much older and thousands of posters larger than this one, they have a notice that I'll reproduce here for everyone's edification:

Quote:
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest 1997-2008 SourceForge, Inc

Could you, Quade, look into this or maybe get an official comment from Sangiro?

I don't want to post my solution to the DB mystery without knowing if I own my words...or someone else owns them.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 14, 2008, 12:08 PM
Post #165 of 56507 (57613 views)
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Re: [Guru312] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

~without knowing if I own my words...or someone else owns them.

In reply to:

Do what I did, just buy a dictionary, that way I own ALL the words! Angelic


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 12:10 PM
Post #166 of 56507 (57612 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Today I had Dr.s appts. and rightt now I have to go leave - think I am going to the ER.
Jo,

I think I speak for most of the posters and lurkers on this forum in wishing you better health. We certainly have our disagreements about Duane and Cooper but it's all in good spirit. Sounds like you may have some serious health issues and perhaps that is compelling your quest to get answers sooner rather than later. In any event, hope you feel better and come back here soon.

377


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 12:26 PM
Post #167 of 56507 (57600 views)
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Re: [Guru312] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

"Legal Information and Notices
Posted Thu Jul 21 2005

By sangiro


Copyright
All content on this site, including text, graphics, logos, icons, images, designs, audio clips, and software, is the property of Dropzone.com. or its content suppliers and is protected by international copyright laws. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement, and assembly) of all content on this site is the exclusive property of Dropzone.com and is protected by international copyright laws."

******************
Despite what the above notice says you could excerpt a few posts, better yet just paraphrase them a bit and have no real world legal worries. You certainly couldn't legally republish the entire website content or large portions verbatim, but uses of tiny bits may be covered under the "FAIR USE" exception/defense to copyright infingement. Paraphrasing, giving the same message with different words, is another way around the copyright infringment issues.

Parody has also been used as a defense. If they are quoting posts on this forum to make fun of us (an easy task given our excesses), its probably OK.

People get their lines all spun up about copyrights, but in the end, unless you get nailed by the RIAA for pirate music downloads, you are very unlikely to be a defendant in a federal court suit for copyright infringment. As for the criminal side, only Ckret could tell us with any authority. The feds have shut down pirate DVD and CD factories and arrested their operators, but as long as people are robbing banks, selling pirated software and forging social security checks, I don't think the FBI is going to be pursuing people for excessive quote lifting from dropzone.com.


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 14, 2008, 12:36 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 14, 2008, 12:52 PM
Post #168 of 56507 (57579 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

[reply
The autopilot would be flying, sometimes he goes by the name of IRON MIKE.
SmileOOps! Sorry didn't know they had those in 1971, but I know little about airplanes - Obviously. See what I mean - Dumb Blonde Syndrome or just Dumb..


skyjack71

Feb 14, 2008, 12:58 PM
Post #169 of 56507 (57572 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

 
In reply to:
Is he writing a book or article? If he is mining this forum for material I don't think it will make the best seller list.

I have been told he is as you say "mining this forum for material" and I am sure glad to hear it won't make the best seller list. None of the Cooper books have ever done well at all - most of them are quiet pricey as out-of-print editions. Too, bad the authors aren't making money on some of those prices.

Norjak is going for $124 on one site.


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 1:07 PM
Post #170 of 56507 (57569 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
[reply
The autopilot would be flying, sometimes he goes by the name of IRON MIKE.

SmileOOps! Sorry didn't know they had those in 1971, but I know little about airplanes - Obviously. See what I mean - Dumb Blonde Syndrome or just Dumb..
Believe it or not they had pretty good autopilots 65 years ago in WW2 bombers such as the B 24. It is very fatiguing hand flying planes with unboosted controls for hours and hours. Autopilots really helped on the the raids from the UK to Germany. We might be speaking German today if not for Mr. Norden (computing bombsight) and Mr Sperry (gyro controlled autopilot). The Norden bombsight and the Sperry autopilot actually worked together on the final run to the target. The bombardier flew the plane through bombsight generated correction inputs sent to the autopilot by wire. Too bad Cooper didnt have a Norden bombsight. Might have got a better spot.


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 14, 2008, 5:03 PM)


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 1:14 PM
Post #171 of 56507 (57566 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Norjak is going for $124 on one site.
Yikes! That is insane. Bet it doesn't sell.

I have seen a few DB Cooper T shirts at DZs, but that is the only thing related to Cooper that I have ever seen in commerce.

Cooper is a folk hero for sure, although I don't really see that he deserves the "hero" part. If he survived, too bad he didn't donate a chunk to charity. That would have made him more like an American Robin Hood rather than a plain old selfish robber.


JSBIRD  (D 9968)

Feb 14, 2008, 2:16 PM
Post #172 of 56507 (57548 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The autopilot would be flying, sometimes he goes by the name of IRON MIKE. I have spent a lot of cockpit jumpseat hours in 747s, DC 10s and L 1011s when I worked for an avionics company. I'd say 98% of the time the plane was on autopilot. Once, in an L 1011, the crew demoed a hands off landing at Heathrow, flown right to runway contact by the autopilot. It was pretty amazing.

377

The term 'Iron Mike' for an AP must be exclusive to the heavy aircraft industry.

Most of my aviation experience is in aircraft <12,500lbs, and my fellow light aircraft pilots have always called an autopilot 'George' for as long as I can remember.

BASE359


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Feb 14, 2008, 4:04 PM
Post #173 of 56507 (57521 views)
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Re: [Guru312] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Could you, Quade, look into this or maybe get an official comment from Sangiro?

I don't want to post my solution to the DB mystery without knowing if I own my words...or someone else owns them.

This would follow along with general Copyright principles.

You "own" all of the original words you write at the moment you write them.

That said, if you were to write "quade did it", that would not actually fall within Copyright law, it's simply not long enough or unique enough.

If you were to write a timeline and theory of events and later somebody took those events and wrote a screenplay out of it . . . you'd still be hosed because Copyright does not apply to that either. Ideas can't be Copyrighted.


(This post was edited by quade on Feb 14, 2008, 4:23 PM)


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #174 of 56507 (57518 views)
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Re: [JSBIRD] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

 
377
The term 'Iron Mike' for an AP must be exclusive to the heavy aircraft industry.

Most of my aviation experience is in aircraft <12,500lbs, and my fellow light aircraft pilots have always called an autopilot 'George' for as long as I can remember.

BASE359
I think GEORGE is the more common term. IRON MIKE came from a Sea Fury race pilot at the Reno Air Races who was a former Pan Am pilot. The guy used to commercial fish and may have taken the term from west coast fishing where autopilots are most often referred to as Iron Mikes.

If Cooper knew about 15 degrees of flap, 10K unpressurized, and 170 kts top speed he likely also knew about 727 autopilots. The fact that he didn't harm or kill the crew is significant. He was a crook, but not a killer.


Guru312  (C 6814)

Feb 14, 2008, 9:07 PM
Post #175 of 56507 (57472 views)
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Re: [quade] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That said, if you were to write "quade did it", that would not actually fall within Copyright law, it's simply not long enough or unique enough.

Quade did it

I am not D. B. Cooper.

Quade did it.

2008 Bernard Sayers


(This post was edited by Guru312 on Feb 14, 2008, 9:09 PM)


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