Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
DB Cooper

 

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ltdiver  (D 20506)

Feb 8, 2008, 12:56 PM
Post #126 of 54581 (44457 views)
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Re: [Orange1] Cooper Coda [In reply to] Can't Post

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ok... so has anyone used that location to try track the flight path, rather than working backwards from where the money was found and how it may or may not have got there?

Without knowing in very fine detail the winds aloft, the final resting place of the placard is meaningless. It could have drifted, blown by the winds, for miles from where it departed the aircraft.

all of which arguments are true to some extent in trying to figure out where cooper landed or how the money landed?

Placard---Flutter...flip...flutter...flip...flutter....land...swish...flip...blow....

Cooper---Swoosh....Crumple....Ouch!

Money bag----Thunk.

Or something like that...Tongue

ltdiver


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 8, 2008, 5:15 PM
Post #127 of 54581 (44404 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Cooper Coda [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
.... then what is the elevation of the DZ - people say it is rugged is it 1 or 2 thousand feet ASL meaning an 8-9k AGL potential exit?

Nigel99,

Give me an e-mail address (not this site PM) to send them and I will send you he following hi-res USGS TOPOs that cover the FBI original DZ:

Ariel Quadrangle North.jpg (1,867 KB)
Ariel Quadrangle South.jpg (1,741 KB)
Woodland Quadrangle North.jpg (1,929 KB)
Woodland Quadrangle South.jpg (1,958 KB)
Seamless Hot Zone North.jpg (2,698 KB)
Seamless Hot Zone South.jpg (2,629 KB)

The Ariel Quad is the East Part if the Hot Zone, The Woodland Quad is the West part of the hot zone. The seamless maps are the North and South parts of both quads.

This way you can pick a spot and know the elevation (within 40 feet). These are all I have on my laptop (I’m on the road tonight). If you need other areas, I can get them for you when I get home (Monday). I have all the USGS 1:100,000 and 1:24,000 maps of Oregon and Washington. These are much better than the MapTech Topos.

Send me an e-mail address by PM, e-mail, or post here and tell me which ones you want. I’ll send them immediately. My private e-mail is: walkertrain at hotmail dot com

This offer is extended to all.

Sluggo_Monster




Sluggo_Monster

Feb 9, 2008, 6:00 AM
Post #129 of 54581 (44313 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
From skyjack71 -
she was asking him questions as trained to do and dealing with her own fear

Skyjack71,

When I get home (Monday), I’ll put on my thinking cap and see what I can come up with.

I have an old friend that I have only communicated with once in the last thirty years. I had her contact information in 2002 and we sent each other a few e-mails, so maybe it’s still good. She was a United Airlines Cabin Attendant in the late sixties (64 – 70). I will try to contact her and find out if they received any “special training” to handle hijackers. Maybe she knows about the kind of questions that would be asked.

However, remember, in 1971 there had been very few (if any) domestic hijackings. The training might have been related more to the “Fly this plane to Cuba” type of hijacking.

Later,

Sluggo_Monster


(This post was edited by Sluggo_Monster on Feb 9, 2008, 6:02 AM)


Albert18

Feb 9, 2008, 10:12 AM
Post #130 of 54581 (44279 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

The only way the FBI is going to believe Duane was on that plane is if they can match a fingerprint. Does the FBI have known fingerprints of Duane and have they compared them to their fingerprints from the plane? Since we don't have these fingerprints, the FBI must do this.

The way I see it, the FBI isn't going to solve this case unless somebody comes up with a man and a substantial amount of evidence against the guy. Since we don't have the fingerprints from the plane, I don't know how anybody can get enough evidence to convince the FBI to really look at somebody.

Here is where I think the FBI is with this case today.

Cooper must have died when he jumped because they didn't find him and they didn't find him because he died in the jump. If he had lived they would have gotten him like McCoy.

I don't know how anybody can argue with that logic.

So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 9, 2008, 10:31 AM
Post #131 of 54581 (44269 views)
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Re: [Albert18] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.

In reply to:

'71 huh...Cooper must have been Jim Morrison or Nikita Khrushchev! ShockedWink


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Feb 9, 2008, 10:48 AM
Post #132 of 54581 (44268 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.

In reply to:

'71 huh...Cooper must have been Jim Morrison or Nikita Khrushchev! ShockedWink

What about you Twardo? Your avitar has me thinking.

Wink


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 9, 2008, 11:15 AM
Post #133 of 54581 (44264 views)
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Re: [SkydiveJack] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.

In reply to:

'71 huh...Cooper must have been Jim Morrison or Nikita Khrushchev! ShockedWink

What about you Twardo? Your avitar has me thinking.

Wink

So.....how 'bout dem Cubs?! AngelicBlushWink


Orange1  (B 2638)

Feb 9, 2008, 12:29 PM
Post #134 of 54581 (44253 views)
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Re: [Albert18] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

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The only way the FBI is going to believe Duane was on that plane is if they can match a fingerprint. Does the FBI have known fingerprints of Duane and have they compared them to their fingerprints from the plane? Since we don't have these fingerprints, the FBI must do this.

Jo seems convinced Duane managed to have his fingerprint records altered so she wouldn't accept that anyway. She has various reasons why she doesn't accept the DNA evidence either. etc

I have seen no evidence anywhere that Duane ever had the amount of money to hand that was involved in the hijacking. There was something about a few thousand dollars somewhere but that could well have been from some far more 'minor' crime.

The only suspect I have seen mentioned who appears to have come into a substantial amount of money (buying property etc) was Christiansen, and the FBI has dismissed him as the physical description doesn't fit the profile. There was speculation about Mayfield but he didn't appear to have actually bought the property as originally thought.

No body, no money... i'm beginning to think the theories about Cooper going in and someone else finding him, burying the body/leaving it to the vultures and taking the money are the most likely.






DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Feb 9, 2008, 6:16 PM
Post #137 of 54581 (44182 views)
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Re: [quade] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post

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Have the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold.

And how would the judicial system deal with the flood of people that would simply claim to have been DB Cooper in order to become rich or go down in history? How would they deal with the delusional ones living out a fantasy life that might actually think they are DB Cooper?

Was that a personal attack?Tongue




Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Feb 9, 2008, 9:59 PM
Post #139 of 54581 (44143 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Was that a personal attack?Tongue

Only if the loafers fit . . . too bad they were never recovered or we could do a Cinderella on you to find out. Wink


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 11, 2008, 11:01 AM
Post #140 of 54581 (44006 views)
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Where is everybody? [In reply to] Can't Post

Uh… uh… Hello…ello…llo..o

HELLO… ELLO… LO…o

Anybody out there?… here…. ere… e

Mummm… I guess nobody’s there.


winsor  (D 13715)

Feb 11, 2008, 11:17 AM
Post #141 of 54581 (43997 views)
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Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

People who do not spend much time outdoors tend to discount how bad the elements can be. These people include both posters here and those who would jump blindly into the elements while wearing traveling clothes.

This guy:

clicky

was in better shape than Cooper - at least as far as knowing where he was and proximity to help was concerned - but it did not do him much good.

If Cooper survived, it was not due to careful planning or a clear picture of what he faced.


Blue skies,

Winsor


(This post was edited by winsor on Feb 11, 2008, 11:18 AM)


377  (F 666)

Feb 11, 2008, 2:12 PM
Post #142 of 54581 (43951 views)
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Re: [winsor] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Somewhere there are tables published on survival time before hypothermia disables you. If Cooper was wet (very likely) then heat transfer out of his body would go faster. I don't know of any experienced skydivers who would make Cooper's jump in the clothes we think Cooper wore. The apparent lack of planning (garb and shoes) is hard to reconcile with any assumptions about Cooper being an expereinced jumper, military or civilian. Either that or he planned to exit right after takeoff, be picked up in minutes and then clothes wouldn't matter so much.


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 11, 2008, 3:19 PM
Post #143 of 54581 (43932 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on a PM I got, I started thinking; “exactly what was the terrain like along the flight path? And, how can it be best represented?”

So, I have produced a profile of the track that I think Flight 305 took that night. It is the centerline of Victor 23. It’s designed to be interactive, so it doesn’t translate to a still image very well. The vertical scale is 0 to 2500 feet. So the peaks are way out of proportion to the ground track.

It begins at SEA-TAC on the left and ends at the RAWER Fix just south of Portland. The red crosshatched areas are maps that are off the disk (I haven’t figured out how to merge two disks yet), but that is south of the area of interest for most folks. Goble Mountain and Schumaker Mountain are flagged. The high peak at about 50 miles out is an unnamed peak about 4 miles south of the Thurston County - Lewis County line. It is 5.3 miles SE (143 deg True) from the center of the Skookumchuck Reservoir.

The important thing to notice is that the first 40 miles is pretty mild terrain, the next 75 is pretty severe, and the last 25 or 30 are very flat and mostly free of trees.

He may well have wanted to jump very near the airport (SEA), but I don’t think that was much of a plan if he did. The 1st 20 miles (SEA to Parkland) the plane would spend some of that climbing to 10,000 feet. The rest would put him over McChord AFB. The next 11.2 miles is from Parkland to the end of property that is part of Fort Lewis. Then the next 12.3 miles is from the edge of Ft. Lewis to around the Lawrence Lake/Reichel Lake area. So the 1st 21.2 miles offers urban areas and military bases as possible DZs. I don’t think he would have gotten away with that (if that was his plan). The last 12.3 miles of that first 33.5 would be mostly rural farmland. This might have been his original plan.

The next 81 miles is really inhospitable. This is the kind of terrain that most people think he jumped over. Then there’s that 23 miles (or so) that I think he jumped over. It is level (mostly) and in 1971 almost all farmland. The BTG VOR is 120 miles out on this track (it is shown right above the digits “120” as a tiny blue bubble on the profile. That’s where I think he jumped. Not by choice, but by chance.

BTW: That jump would have occurred at 2013 PST (using the FBI’s timeline).
Attachments: SEA-RAWER Track Profile.jpg (98.5 KB)


1969912

Feb 11, 2008, 7:46 PM
Post #144 of 54581 (43882 views)
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Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

You're right about the terrain. Most of that area is quite flat. The link below is to a Wikimapia map centered on the BTG VOR (zoom in and you can see the VOR calibration/test antennas around the building). Ariel, WA is due North. Victor 23 runs into BTG from 329 degrees North, which is ~parallel to I-5 between La Center and the I-205 junction. Click "view" at upper left to change view to terrain/satellite, etc.

Second link is to photos of the Fargher Lake area, which is just right of center at the top of the Wikimapia map. The terrain at Fargher Lake is very typical for that area.

http://wikimapia.org/...;l=0&m=h&v=2


http://www.lewisriver.com/...llery/2005-misc.html

FWIW


(This post was edited by 1969912 on Feb 11, 2008, 8:14 PM)






1969912

Feb 11, 2008, 11:51 PM
Post #147 of 54581 (43832 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

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You're right about the terrain. Most of that area is quite flat

SmileFirst time I seen a map I can read - wish I could keep the map and and type in the area I am talking about and had a way to zoom in on the road - would be great if someone had something like this for 1979 - I believe I could go right to those towers.

I just did it and I deleted it -


If you are asking how to keep the map, just add it to your "bookmarks" (might be called "favorite places" or something in Windows Internet Explorer). To open that map again just click on it in your bookmarks or favorites list. The map will open to the same zoom, etc. as when you saved it. Not sure if that helps.

If you can give me a general idea of where to look, I can search the satellite images for the pipes and/or wires. There are several places where big powerlines cross.

This may help you get your bearings when looking at the map: At one time you mentioned thein Vancouver Red Lion Inn, which is right beside I-5. It's offficially called "Red Lion Hotel Vancouver at the Quay". The link below is to a map centered right on the hotel, and you can see I-5 on the right. Downtown Vancouver is pretty much due North. Just zoom out as needed and follow the river. When you want to save the map, just add the current view (webpage) to your bookmarks/favorites. The zoom and location will be saved. If you look at the actual URL in the little box at the top of your web browser (example: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=45.622052&lon=-122.675094&z....), you can see that the lat/long coordinates, zoom, etc. are in the URL. As you scroll/zoom around those numbers will change, and when you bookmark/favorite a map view, the URL is what gets saved.

Red Lion: http://wikimapia.org/...;l=0&m=h&v=2

Not sure if this is of any help, but hope so....




Albert18

Feb 12, 2008, 8:31 AM
Post #149 of 54581 (43773 views)
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Re: [1969912] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Boy, that area around Fargher Lake looks like some vicious country doesn't it.

When you look at all the farmland along the flightpath in this area, you start to understand why the FBI needed such strong winds blowing him to the east/northeast and for him to open his chute the instant he jumped.




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