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mrshutter45

Jun 27, 2013, 9:02 PM
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Re: [skyjack71] Torque [In reply to] Can't Post

"I have stated before that that money was NOT put on that beach until Sept of 1979!"

what proof do you have of this statement? and proof of the reason the bills are in the condition they were found?


mrshutter45

Jun 27, 2013, 9:09 PM
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CONFUSED [In reply to] Can't Post

Blevins claims KC planted the money.

Marla says: "In the event any of the money made it to the ground with the hijacker he probably suspected that the money had been marked or documented or, in the words of Miss Cooper, He just knew that it (the crime) was wrong.

Jo says Duane put the money on Tina, or threw it in the river in a paper bag?

can you guys see how much of a stir you are creating?????

did anyone actually see any money? or spend it?


here is a 79 photo...I don't see a a shed around the money site..


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Jun 27, 2013, 9:34 PM)
Attachments: 79.JPG (76.4 KB)


Robert99

Jun 27, 2013, 9:36 PM
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Re: [georger] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

georger wrote:

The evidence reported by Tom Kaye is that at least one packet of the money found at Tina Bar had been exposed to a "torque" while on the river bank. This torqueing, plus the height above sea level (and river level) at which the money was found, suggests that the money was in the process of ENTERING the Columbia River. In plain English, the Tina Bar money had never been in the Columbia itself in the first place.
In reply to:

Torqueing ?

Has Tom revised his website/analysis? Guess I will have to
find out for myself. This is news to me. Any photos of torque?
Measurements?

Georger, Take a look in the "Money Find" section, "Money Analysis" subsection, of Tom Kaye's web page.

As of February 22, 2013, on his web page, Tom had a Figure 7 in the "Money Analysis" subsection that illustrates the positions of some of the bills while buried.

He shows from the fragments that remain of some of the bills that the top bills had rotated counter-clockwise with respect to the bills on the bottom of the packet.

I described this movement as being the result of having a counter-clockwise "torque" applied to the packet. The physical force required to produce this torque is water running down the bank and into the Columbia River.

I suggest that you read the entire "Money Find" section and "Money Analysis" subsections again.

The above was discussed, or at least I wrote about it, on this thread several weeks ago.

Robert99


(This post was edited by Robert99 on Jun 27, 2013, 9:38 PM)


Robert99

Jun 27, 2013, 9:49 PM
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Re: [skyjack71] Torque [In reply to] Can't Post

skyjack71 wrote:
Quote:
The evidence reported by Tom Kaye is that at least one packet of the money found at Tina Bar had been exposed to a "torque" while on the river bank. This torqueing, plus the height above sea level (and river level) at which the money was found, suggests that the money was in the process of ENTERING the Columbia River. In plain English, the Tina Bar money had never been in the Columbia itself in the first place. Of course, the money was exposed to plenty of rain while on the banks of the Columbia and that water running INTO the Columbia is what moved the money to the location where it was found.

You do realize that what is stated above supports the fact that the money was buried on the beach.

I have stated before that that money was NOT put on that beach until Sept of 1979!

Jo, Nothing I have written above supports your idea that the money at Tina Bar was buried by a human.

And you have no proof of any kind as to the exact dates the money arrived at the location where it was found. But it is a given that neither Duane Weber nor KC had anything to do with it.

Robert99


mrshutter45

Jun 27, 2013, 9:54 PM
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Re: [Robert99] Torque [In reply to] Can't Post

the picture from the test of a bill in a jar for 33 months. is this all that was left after this time period?
Attachments: Burial_sml.jpg (25.2 KB)




RobertMBlevins

Jun 27, 2013, 10:05 PM
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Re: [georger] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

georger wrote:
mrshutter45 wrote:
georger wrote:

KC's brother seems to be at the heart of this whole issue by claiming KC was Cooper. you get a bunch of emails from people who don't really know much about the case other than he jumped out of a plane.......
...
In reply to:

KC's brother told Mike Simmons on a national broadcast the whole thing was a "good idea for a script for a movie" and that he did not believe Kenny had been Cooper!

Lyle and Blevins have some 'splainin' to do!

BTW, Porteous says he has cut all ties with Blevins.

just another reason not to look into KC. I just don't see anything there.....only stories....just like the rest. Cool

Excuse me, but how many times do I have to answer the same questions?

How in the holy hell would Lyle Christiansen possibly know one way or another whether his brother was DB Cooper? How? Did Kenny tell him? Did Lyle find some of the ransom money in that storage locker that was emptied out after KC died? Here's a hint:

No to both questions.

I never heard this radio show stuff you keep parroting, but I saw Lyle on national television trying to convince the Decoded cast his brother was Cooper. But here's the REAL point: Lyle's opinion on the identity of DB Cooper is absolutely WORTHLESS, because he doesn't know and he has no proof. This is why he is barely mentioned in Blast, and why I made him sign a contract giving up all rights to KC's story, along with the rights to all submitted documents, pictures, or other items. It was the only way I would even deal with him. He gets NOTHING from any possible movie deal. Zero, zip, nada. We own ALL the rights.

The rest of the family doesn't want anything either. You can ask KC's nephew Bruce Christiansen and he will fill you in on that angle. Most of them consider the whole thing an embarrassment, although admittedly they would like to know the truth. But they aren't interested in money. We're talking about some real down-home Minnesota types here, you know.

It's never been about money with the KC story. I do have some standards, you know. You've heard about the money from Decoded and Adrenaline Hunter I turned down. Well...I also turned down $20,000 for a one-year option on KC's story. The reason I said no was because they wanted to take serious liberties with the script. That offer came from a New York client represented by Paradigm. I don't invest my time like I did with investigating KC for two years just to be a sell-out. No frickin' way. It's the truth, or nothing. Until either that truth is discovered, or someone wants to stick to the known facts on KC, there will be NO movie deal.

And who says 'Porteous has cut all ties with Blevins?' A load of horsecrap. Porteous and I communicate all the time. I know everything he does in his personal life, (he keeps me informed) his private cell phone number, where he is now, (Toronto) where he's going to be moving next summer with his new girlfriend (Northern California. He's no longer with Hannah) and when I am supposed to meet him there for a visit. (Right after he moves there) You haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about regarding the relationship between Skipp Porteous and myself. If he told you that, it was probably to be rid of you, because we are good friends.

Lyle Christiansen isn't at the heart of anything really. He merely pointed in KC's direction and then people like Geoff Gray, Porteous...and later...myself, investigated Christiansen. Lyle did provide some pictures and documents, but he couldn't help us on actually figuring out the truth on his brother. His only motivation is he wants to know for sure before he dies whether his brother was the hijacker or not. That's it.

Robert99 says in part:

Quote:
'But it is a given that neither Duane Weber nor KC had anything to do with it...' (The Tena Bar money find)

Really? How do you know that? I won't speak for Weber. But tell me how you came to the idea that it was 'a given' that KC had nothing to do with the money found at Tena Bar? That makes as much sense as if I tried to say it was 'a given' that KC was the hijacker. Crazy

Robert99 ALSO says in part:

Quote:
'He (Tom Kaye) shows from the fragments that remain of some of the bills that the top bills had rotated counter-clockwise with respect to the bills on the bottom of the packet...'

I don't suppose anyone wonders whether all the bills in each packet were assembled in perfect, face-up order? Perhaps a few were upside down the whole time within some of the ransom packets? Although the money had been previously 'set aside' by the bank, no one said the money was stored pre-packed in bundles of roughly a hundred bills each and bound with rubber bands. The bills were probably wrapped originally with the standard paper bands, but during assembly of the packets, it was done rather hastily I would assume. It's very possible some ended up facing this way, others the opposite way, during the assembly process and the adding of the rubber bands. It's known that during the assembly process they tried to fool the hijacker into believing the money wasn't being marked or recorded by varying the size of the bundles. I doubt anyone involved in preparing the bundles for delivery cared which way the individual bills faced. The main goal would be to put them together as quickly as possible and get them to the airport before the hijacker decides to blow up the jet.

As far as the KC story being called 'a bunch of stories,' let's just see what happens after someone out there (besides armchair investigators) finally decides to check out the report on him. Sooner or later, someone will undoubtably do so. It's being downloaded from either the Newsvine article or the AB website nearly 150 times each week. That's about 7,500 times or better each year. Trust me on something here. At some point, someone or some entity is going to get curious about it and try to find out if it is 'a bunch of stories'. And if they are serious, they can have carte blanche on anything in our files.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Jun 27, 2013, 11:16 PM)




mrshutter45

Jun 27, 2013, 10:34 PM
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Re: [skyjack71] All Over The Place [In reply to] Can't Post

the 205 bridge was completed in 83 I believe. this is almost 7 miles east of the flight path. what would be the reason for mentioning the bridge? or purpose so far away from the known flight path?

if you don't have the proper maps, how can you be so critical about things when speaking? same with the population growth.

Blevins wants to change the description of Cooper as well claiming stress among other things. this is typical with an average crime that typically will last seconds, so descriptions can be very fuzzy. Tina, scared or not had a long time to look at him unlike your average crime. I believe the descriptions to be pretty accurate.

If I find something wrong with the path you can rest assure I will advise the proper people of the findings and not just claim them on here. currently I'm am having issue's from Toledo to Merwin. the time is not lining up, but you don't see me telling everyone the path is wrong. the testing takes time to insure everything is correct. I don't have 20 hours a week to work on the project so it takes longer than expected...


RobertMBlevins

Jun 27, 2013, 10:46 PM
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Re: [mrshutter45] All Over The Place [In reply to] Can't Post

mrshutter45 wrote:
the 205 bridge was completed in 83 I believe. this is almost 7 miles east of the flight path. what would be the reason for mentioning the bridge? or purpose so far away from the known flight path?

if you don't have the proper maps, how can you be so critical about things when speaking? same with the population growth.

Blevins wants to change the description of Cooper as well claiming stress among other things. this is typical with an average crime that typically will last seconds, so descriptions can be very fuzzy. Tina, scared or not had a long time to look at him unlike your average crime. I believe the descriptions to be pretty accurate.

If I find something wrong with the path you can rest assure I will advise the proper people of the findings and not just claim them on here. currently I'm am having issue's from Toledo to Merwin. the time is not lining up, but you don't see me telling everyone the path is wrong. the testing takes time to insure everything is correct. I don't have 20 hours a week to work on the project so it takes longer than expected...

In my humble opinion, you are doing some of the best work that's been done on a critical issue in the case in years. And I wish you success and look forward to your conclusions.


georger

Jun 27, 2013, 10:49 PM
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote:
'He (Tom Kaye) shows from the fragments that remain of some of the bills that the top bills had rotated counter-clockwise with respect to the bills on the bottom of the packet...'

I don't suppose anyone wonders whether all the bills in each packet were assembled in perfect, face-up order? Perhaps a few were upside down the whole time within some of the ransom packets? Although the money had been previously 'set aside' by the bank, no one said the money was stored pre-packed in bundles of roughly a hundred bills each and bound with rubber bands. The bills were probably wrapped originally with the standard paper bands, but during assembly of the packets, it was done rather hastily I would assume. It's very possible some ended up facing this way, others the opposite way, during the assembly process and the adding of the rubber bands. It's known that during the assembly process they tried to fool the hijacker into believing the money wasn't being marked or recorded by varying the size of the bundles. I doubt anyone involved in preparing the bundles for delivery cared which way the individual bills faced. The main goal would be to put them together as quickly as possible and get them to the airport before the hijacker decides to blow up the jet.
In reply to:

Weve been through this countless times - not going through it again. It's unproductive territory.


Robert99

Jun 27, 2013, 10:55 PM
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Re: [skyjack71] Torque [In reply to] Can't Post

skyjack71 wrote:
Robert99 wrote:

Jo, Nothing I have written above supports your idea that the money at Tina Bar was buried by a human.

And you have no proof of any kind as to the exact dates the money arrived at the location where it was found. But it is a given that neither Duane Weber nor KC had anything to do with it.

Robert99

I have my memory and my word - that is NOT proof, but Duane went down the River at Tena's bar and he took something with him and then he threw a bad out at the Red Lion.

He also took something down to the river across from the PDX and just West of the PDX. Duane was a litter bug I guess - maybe he was burying candy wrappers!

You know Robt YOU make judgementa you should never MAKE - WHAT if I have already PUT Weber on the damn PLANE! YOU have NO idea what I sent to the FBI - none of you have seen the items and you probably never will. A positive ID after 42 yrs will be difficult unless it is something so unforgettable the witness remembers it when placed in front of her.TongueTongueTongueUnsure

Jo, Duane was never on that plane! Even all your black magic and incantations can't put him on that plane. And the reason he was never on that plane is because he was not D.B. Cooper then or now.

Robert99


Robert99

Jun 27, 2013, 11:08 PM
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins wrote:
Robert99 ALSO says in part:

Quote:
'He (Tom Kaye) shows from the fragments that remain of some of the bills that the top bills had rotated counter-clockwise with respect to the bills on the bottom of the packet...'

I don't suppose anyone wonders whether all the bills in each packet were assembled in perfect, face-up order? Perhaps a few were upside down the whole time within some of the ransom packets? Although the money had been previously 'set aside' by the bank, no one said the money was stored pre-packed in bundles of roughly a hundred bills each and bound with rubber bands. The bills were probably wrapped originally with the standard paper bands, but during assembly of the packets, it was done rather hastily I would assume. It's very possible some ended up facing this way, others the opposite way, during the assembly process and the adding of the rubber bands. It's known that during the assembly process they tried to fool the hijacker into believing the money wasn't being marked or recorded by varying the size of the bundles. I doubt anyone involved in preparing the bundles for delivery cared which way the individual bills faced. The main goal would be to put them together as quickly as possible and get them to the airport before the hijacker decides to blow up the jet.

Blevins, Go to Tom Kaye's web page and read his analysis about the money. What you have written above doesn't make sense to me but it does indicate you didn't understand what I was saying in the original post.

Robert99


georger

Jun 27, 2013, 11:13 PM
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Re: [Robert99] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

Robert99 wrote:
georger wrote:

The evidence reported by Tom Kaye is that at least one packet of the money found at Tina Bar had been exposed to a "torque" while on the river bank. This torqueing, plus the height above sea level (and river level) at which the money was found, suggests that the money was in the process of ENTERING the Columbia River. In plain English, the Tina Bar money had never been in the Columbia itself in the first place.
In reply to:

Torqueing ?

Has Tom revised his website/analysis? Guess I will have to
find out for myself. This is news to me. Any photos of torque?
Measurements?

Georger, Take a look in the "Money Find" section, "Money Analysis" subsection, of Tom Kaye's web page.

As of February 22, 2013, on his web page, Tom had a Figure 7 in the "Money Analysis" subsection that illustrates the positions of some of the bills while buried.

He shows from the fragments that remain of some of the bills that the top bills had rotated counter-clockwise with respect to the bills on the bottom of the packet.

I described this movement as being the result of having a counter-clockwise "torque" applied to the packet. The physical force required to produce this torque is water running down the bank and into the Columbia River.

I suggest that you read the entire "Money Find" section and "Money Analysis" subsections again.

The above was discussed, or at least I wrote about it, on this thread several weeks ago.

Robert99
In reply to:

Ok, so rotation not torque. Makes sense now. Ive seen that
illustration. Tom presents that illustration then later talks about
'perfect alignment' ? Ink bleeding through due to bills being in
'perfect alignment'?

That there was not perfect alignment of the bills stacked might
mean something in terms of the forces acting on the bills in situ
but beyond that I see no deep meaning in this ... the Ingrams
took no photos of the bills when found, as they were removing
them, when they were at their apartment being pulled apart and
sorted in the kitchen .... etc. The first photos of the bills I know
of were with H at the Portland office, laid out on a table in
piles for the press event.

We know the Ingrams tried to separate and soak and pull and
clean as many bills as possible at their apartment - their first
intent was to redeem the bills for cash at a bank. How the bills
got put back together to take to the FBI office or were sorted
into piles and laid out for the press event at the office ... I
do not know. In fact, Mrs Ingram is still alive and might
remember ... but she seldom talks to anyone directly -
everything always comes through Brian.

I just dont get Tom saying 'perfect alignment' on the one hand
then showing an illustration proving non-perfect alignment. I
thought 'perfect alignment' was being used to support hand
burial as opposed to natural forces. Then it turns out there is
non-perfect alignment which would tend to support mixed
natural forces. And you speculate the direction of force was
from above (further up the bank), ie rain and melt water.

Let me leave it at that for the time being.
Thanks for clarifying 'torque'.


(This post was edited by georger on Jun 27, 2013, 11:15 PM)


RobertMBlevins

Jun 28, 2013, 1:01 AM
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Re: [georger] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

Kaye is sure that at least SOME of the bills were aligned so well that the ink from some numbers bled into others. He used this fact to postulate that the money could not have ended up at Tena Bar by washing down any river. Let's get to the point here. He claims....by tossing similar bundles into the river...that these same bundles 'fanned' soon after they hit the water. The rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in.

THINK! It's not like the hijacker was going to rearrange the bills up or down, even if he decided to do a plant. Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled.

I am very busy right now, but if you want to discuss this further in person, you can find me HERE in person on August 10th helping pass out the snacks. Angelic


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Jun 28, 2013, 2:40 AM)


377  (F 666)

Jun 28, 2013, 6:38 AM
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Re: [mrshutter45] The Aft Way [In reply to] Can't Post

mrshutter45 wrote:
'All of that was based on the original search area announced."

the original search area they couldn't even search from the air correctly due to cloud coverage. someone sent me documents pertaining to the issues the SR-71 had trying to photograph the drop zone.

he gave permission to post them....thanks SM Cool

The SR 71 docs were one of many amazing finds by Snowmman. I wish Quade would lift the ban. Snowmman probably already had all the NSA documents that Snowden thought he was releasing for the first time. The designers of server processor chips have incredible opportunities for mischief. Wink

377


Robert99

Jun 28, 2013, 9:16 AM
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins wrote:
The rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in.

Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled.

Blevins, the rotation of the bills IS significant.

And the lack of evidence of "fanning", as opposed to "torqueing", means that they were never exposed to deep water as an unrestrained (except for one rubber band) packet. The logical interpretation is that the money packets had never been in the Columbia River proper in the first place.

Further, it is really a stretch to suggest that the bills were rotated to such an extent during their handling in Seattle. I suggest that you pay more attention to what Tom Kaye is saying on his web page.

I realize that the above may not fit into whatever theories Blevins is advancing in his new book, but life can be a bitch at times.

Robert99


Robert99

Jun 28, 2013, 9:29 AM
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Re: [377] The Aft Way [In reply to] Can't Post

377 wrote:
mrshutter45 wrote:
'All of that was based on the original search area announced."

the original search area they couldn't even search from the air correctly due to cloud coverage. someone sent me documents pertaining to the issues the SR-71 had trying to photograph the drop zone.

he gave permission to post them....thanks SM Cool

The SR 71 docs were one of many amazing finds by Snowmman. I wish Quade would lift the ban. Snowmman probably already had all the NSA documents that Snowden thought he was releasing for the first time. The designers of server processor chips have incredible opportunities for mischief. Wink

377

Quade, I want to second 377's request for lifting the ban on Snowmman.

Don't be like one of the current posters whose candidate for D.B. Cooper is a fellow who stiffed him out of $5 rent more than 50 years ago. That poster remembers ever single "slight" and there is no forgiveness as far as he is concerned.

Quade, you are bigger than that poster.

Robert99


(This post was edited by Robert99 on Jun 28, 2013, 10:56 AM)


georger

Jun 28, 2013, 1:39 PM
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Re: [Robert99] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

Robert99 wrote:
RobertMBlevins wrote:
The rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in.

Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled.

Blevins, the rotation of the bills IS significant.

And the lack of evidence of "fanning", as opposed to "torqueing", means that they were never exposed to deep water as an unrestrained (except for one rubber band) packet. The logical interpretation is that the money packets had never been in the Columbia River proper in the first place.

Further, it is really a stretch to suggest that the bills were rotated to such an extent during their handling in Seattle. I suggest that you pay more attention to what Tom Kaye is saying on his web page.

I realize that the above may not fit into whatever theories Blevins is advancing in his new book, but life can be a bitch at times.

Robert99
In reply to:

location, location, location.

forget the epicycles!


RobertMBlevins

Jun 28, 2013, 3:55 PM
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Re: [georger] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

georger wrote:
Robert99 wrote:
RobertMBlevins wrote:
The rotation up and down of any bills now is insignificant. They could have ended up that way by a hurried assembly in Seattle, or done by the Ingrams' in their attempts to make the bills suitable for cashing in.

Kaye says there is still no evidence of fanning of the packets. If any of the bills were up or down, it's most likely this was done while the packets were hastily being assembled.

Blevins, the rotation of the bills IS significant.

And the lack of evidence of "fanning", as opposed to "torqueing", means that they were never exposed to deep water as an unrestrained (except for one rubber band) packet. The logical interpretation is that the money packets had never been in the Columbia River proper in the first place.

Further, it is really a stretch to suggest that the bills were rotated to such an extent during their handling in Seattle. I suggest that you pay more attention to what Tom Kaye is saying on his web page.

I realize that the above may not fit into whatever theories Blevins is advancing in his new book, but life can be a bitch at times.

Robert99
In reply to:

location, location, location.

forget the epicycles!

My new book isn't about the Cooper case, per se...had to say that.

Well, if the bills didn't come from the water and the water was only a few feet away from where they were found...


Robert99

Jun 28, 2013, 4:09 PM
Post #44697 of 54583 (28196 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Nothing at All [In reply to] Can't Post

RobertMBlevins wrote:
Well, if the bills didn't come from the water and the water was only a few feet away from where they were found...

They didn't quite make it but other packets of the bills, and Cooper himself, may have made it into the Columbia. If they did, their remains may have made a few circuits of the Pacific by now.

Robert99








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