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georger

Apr 9, 2013, 12:23 AM
Post #42226 of 55797 (40653 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] The Disintegration of Georger [In reply to] Can't Post

 
The biggest mystery of all about it is how more than one bundle of the cash ended up in the same exact spot with nothing else found. That is tough to explain. I hesitate to offer any other possibilities on it because those possibilities might be slanted because of the evidence against Kenny Christiansen. This means my personal opinions on it should be sidelined instead for just venturing possibilities...not trying to draw conclusions about it. It would not be objective, since I can't prove KC was the hijacker anyway.
The T_Bar money has nothing to do with KC.

I agree. More than one bundle speaks to a process
by which bundles remain associated, since they were
associated in the bag on the plane. Now find the
process. The FBI thinks it did!


(This post was edited by georger on Apr 9, 2013, 12:25 AM)


RobertMBlevins

Apr 9, 2013, 12:39 AM
Post #42227 of 55797 (40639 views)
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Re: [georger] The Disintegration of Georger [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The biggest mystery of all about it is how more than one bundle of the cash ended up in the same exact spot with nothing else found. That is tough to explain. I hesitate to offer any other possibilities on it because those possibilities might be slanted because of the evidence against Kenny Christiansen. This means my personal opinions on it should be sidelined instead for just venturing possibilities...not trying to draw conclusions about it. It would not be objective, since I can't prove KC was the hijacker anyway.

The T_Bar money has nothing to do with KC.

I agree. More than one bundle speaks to a process
by which bundles remain associated, since they were
associated in the bag on the plane. Now find the
process. The FBI thinks it did!
The Seattle FBI (God love 'em) solves major crimes every day. But they are also the same people (regarding the Cooper case) who did these things:

1) Interviewed over a thousand suspects without result.

2) Made a habit of keeping the media and the public out of the loop for decades, when in reality it was the media and the public who could have assisted them best.

3) Failed to keep proper records on the details of the creation of the radar maps now used to track Flight 305.

4) Dismissed the Amboy chute with lame arguments supported by basically just one person. And the main point he used to dismiss was even MORE lame. ('It's silk, not nylon, so it can't be Cooper's')

5) Went public with the Marla Fable (and got burned) when they should have investigated her story better first, and as a result were forced deeper into their shell regarding the Cooper case.

6) Because of #5 no one can get anything out of them now that might help solve the case.

7) Lost the best DNA evidence in the case, in the form of some cigarette butts.

I could go on, but I think I will leave it at that.

The truth is, Cooper should have been caught very shortly after the crime, but he was not. And much of that rests with the Seattle FBI. But since they are pretty good at shutting down the bad guys around here, I will give them a break on Cooper. Some of the agents at the office probably admire him as much as anyone else. You can't blame them, really. Smile


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Apr 9, 2013, 12:43 AM)


MeyerLouie

Apr 9, 2013, 3:06 AM
Post #42228 of 55797 (40623 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] MeyerLouie [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Opinion: Washougal could be a waste of time. Need more information on a possible drop point.

Searching without a good start point?
Think about this for a moment:

Let's say you narrow it down to an area of only three miles by three miles. That's NINE SQUARE MILES of search area. Do any of you backwoods experts realize how difficult it is to grid search a mere three by three mile area with less than a hundred searchers?

Look, I'm all in favor of a ground search, but being a veteran of the NW Search and Rescue, I know a few things about mounting such an effort.

Okay...let's say you've got a hundred good searchers to work with for this grid effort.

Let's say further you plan on only doing one square mile out of nine at a time using these hundred people. (To cover total area of three by three miles only)

Okay...the best you can do with your hundred searchers is to place them about fifty feet apart and start going. After all one hundred searchers go out a full mile on this grid, they return...and then have to do the same thing eight more times. Once for each section of the grid. And with people fifty feet apart in the woods, it would be easy to miss something.

And that only covers an area three miles long, three miles wide. Nine square miles. I know I said that already...

The possible Cooper jump zone, even conservatively, has to be around 20x10 miles at the minimum (no one really knows) and that's TWO HUNDRED square miles! This is also an area TWENTY-TWO times LARGER than the tiny nine mile area you have to search nine times with a hundred people!

(*the magnitude of the effort is revealed*) Smile

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here. I'm trying to bring people to reality on this. In order to avoid wasting your time and effort on an area that has (at best) a 1/22 chance of being the right area, you have to narrow down the search area considerably. And the only way to know that is to establish with an 80-90% certainty the point where Cooper jumped. Even after all of that, chances are not good. It's not all flat and happy terrain out there, and sometimes the reason no one finds anything for years on someone is because they ended up in a spot that is difficult to reach. There are so many problems involved when you are talking about such a large area.

Now there are some parameters to assist. One...Cooper jumps off the stairs. (wind drift, time aloft are factors here) Cooper freefalls for some seconds and pulls. (less drift) Whatever you use to determine possible landing spots, you need better information. Otherwise this effort is pointless.

That said, yeah...I would probably still go, but unless parameters are narrowed it's almost certainly a waste of time.

EDIT: I do have some better suggestions to narrow it down. Maybe five main parameters, with three sub-parameters.

A) Five Main Parameters: Selected points on the radar map, a, b, c, d, e. Each corresponds to a one-minute interval when Cooper may have jumped. Say...20:08 to 20:12.

B) Three Sub-Parameters: Three selected points on the ground search map for each Main Parameter, 1,2,3. Each represents possible landing spot. Calculate each using these rules:

1) Cooper pulls right off the stairs. (wind drift factors)

2) Cooper freefalls for enough time to get stable, then pulls. (less wind drift)

3) Cooper impacts into ground without pulling. (no drift, probably some forward motion before basically going straight down after that)

That will give you fifteen very likely spots to search, and each will be less than a square mile. It's all I can think of and I'm open to different ideas. Due to the Tena Bar money, if you aren't planning to look there, you could discount sub-parameter number 3. (Impacts into ground) Leaves you ten spots to look. GPS coordinates for each of these spots is vital. And using this formula, you would need vehicles, but not a hundred people necessarily. It's still tough, though. One reason is because we don't know if Cooper jumped at say...20:08 or 20:08 and a half, which would be about a mile and half through the sky further.

I feel a Tena Bar headache coming on...Laugh

__________________________________________________

Blevins:

Do you really think Jerry Thomas, or anybody else for that matter, really cares where you think the search should be conducted? It's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that your unsolicited suggestions for the search area will be totally ignored. Maybe if you had more credibility, you'd get more attention. But there you go again, writing a mile-long post, taking up your usual 25% of the air-time -- and it will be a post that will, for the most part, be totally ignored.

MeyerLouie


MeyerLouie

Apr 9, 2013, 4:12 AM
Post #42229 of 55797 (40617 views)
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Re: [georger] The Disintegration of Georger [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I swear I don't know why I'm answering your question. See, here's the problem: I don't usually answer questions buried under a ton of insults and garbage. Try to understand that concept. Crazy

Your question:

Quote:
'Why would somebody plant money in an out-of-
the-way place on an out-of-the-way sandbar, in a
place that floods all the time and God only knows
what else! ? Just who was expected to find it and
when? shouldn't the perp have hung a poster in town
or sent a letter to the news media, or left a message
for the future RoibertMBlevins, informing the world of
where to find the money and what is was supposed to
teach?

WAGE EARNER SHEEPLE WANNA KNOW! ?

just answer the question for a change...'

How the heck should I know? I said that hasn't been proven. I only pointed out that the official flight map shows 305 no closer than five nautical miles from the Columbia River before it reached Portland and crossed OVER the Columbia. See attached map. (also a rerun)

LOL as if I have all the answers to the Tena Bar money. No one does. I already listed some of the possibilities, but I never drew a conclusion on them. Not enough evidence, not enough information.

Rerun: Flight map is wrong. Or Cooper went into the Columbia over Portland and money bag ended up at Tena Bar. Or plant.

Take your pick. You'll have to prove one of those scenarios, of course, should you select one of them.

The lumber and other debris at Tina's Bar does not
require a flight path to explain!

Can you pry your head off flight paths long enough
think about the stuff on Tina's Bar for its own sake?

You act like the two are inseparable!

Our galaxy is headed straight toward another galaxy.
How does that affect cottage cheese ?

__________________________________________________

Blevins:

You may want to get back on your ADD medication and decaffeinated coffee-- you're all over the place. The topic was Tena Bar -- but you obsessed on the flight path, Amboy again, then back to KC -- issues that, in this context, don't really lend themselves to the current Tena Bar discussion. Focus, man! You're running toward the horizon like a bat out of hell with its pants on fire.

Georger was trying to make a point -- based on logic, common sense, and focus. But you totally missed it -- Why would someone pick such a place in the first place to "plant" money? What might explain the 3 bundles being stacked together? Maybe "unnatural means" is a really unnatural expression.

Please don't respond to these questions, they're rhetorical only.

You still haven't met your 25% quota for air time -- better get on it, buster.

MeyerLouie


MeyerLouie

Apr 9, 2013, 4:20 AM
Post #42230 of 55797 (40614 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] The Disintegration of Georger [In reply to] Can't Post

Blevins said:

The Seattle FBI (God love 'em) solves major crimes every day. But they are also the same people (regarding the Cooper case) who did these things:

1) Interviewed over a thousand suspects without result.

2) Made a habit of keeping the media and the public out of the loop for decades, when in reality it was the media and the public who could have assisted them best.

3) Failed to keep proper records on the details of the creation of the radar maps now used to track Flight 305.

4) Dismissed the Amboy chute with lame arguments supported by basically just one person. And the main point he used to dismiss was even MORE lame. ('It's silk, not nylon, so it can't be Cooper's')

5) Went public with the Marla Fable (and got burned) when they should have investigated her story better first, and as a result were forced deeper into their shell regarding the Cooper case.

6) Because of #5 no one can get anything out of them now that might help solve the case.

7) Lost the best DNA evidence in the case, in the form of some cigarette butts.

I could go on, but I think I will leave it at that.

__________________________________________________

Hmmm, now I think I know why the FBI hasn't gotten back to you on that KC report, Blevins.

MeyerLouie



mrshutter45

Apr 9, 2013, 5:29 AM
Post #42231 of 55797 (40610 views)
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Re: [MeyerLouie] The Disintegration of Georger [In reply to] Can't Post

he has a strong feeling KC is Cooper, nobody had a
clue it was him if it were true, so why would KC plant
money on Tena Bar to throw them off the trail?

same for Weber, LD, Gossett etc. etc.

all were in the clear 100%


RobertMBlevins

Apr 9, 2013, 7:39 AM
Post #42232 of 55797 (40582 views)
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Re: [MeyerLouie] MeyerLouie [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Opinion: Washougal could be a waste of time. Need more information on a possible drop point.

Searching without a good start point?
Think about this for a moment:

Let's say you narrow it down to an area of only three miles by three miles. That's NINE SQUARE MILES of search area. Do any of you backwoods experts realize how difficult it is to grid search a mere three by three mile area with less than a hundred searchers?

Look, I'm all in favor of a ground search, but being a veteran of the NW Search and Rescue, I know a few things about mounting such an effort.

Okay...let's say you've got a hundred good searchers to work with for this grid effort.

Let's say further you plan on only doing one square mile out of nine at a time using these hundred people. (To cover total area of three by three miles only)

Okay...the best you can do with your hundred searchers is to place them about fifty feet apart and start going. After all one hundred searchers go out a full mile on this grid, they return...and then have to do the same thing eight more times. Once for each section of the grid. And with people fifty feet apart in the woods, it would be easy to miss something.

And that only covers an area three miles long, three miles wide. Nine square miles. I know I said that already...

The possible Cooper jump zone, even conservatively, has to be around 20x10 miles at the minimum (no one really knows) and that's TWO HUNDRED square miles! This is also an area TWENTY-TWO times LARGER than the tiny nine mile area you have to search nine times with a hundred people!

(*the magnitude of the effort is revealed*) Smile

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here. I'm trying to bring people to reality on this. In order to avoid wasting your time and effort on an area that has (at best) a 1/22 chance of being the right area, you have to narrow down the search area considerably. And the only way to know that is to establish with an 80-90% certainty the point where Cooper jumped. Even after all of that, chances are not good. It's not all flat and happy terrain out there, and sometimes the reason no one finds anything for years on someone is because they ended up in a spot that is difficult to reach. There are so many problems involved when you are talking about such a large area.

Now there are some parameters to assist. One...Cooper jumps off the stairs. (wind drift, time aloft are factors here) Cooper freefalls for some seconds and pulls. (less drift) Whatever you use to determine possible landing spots, you need better information. Otherwise this effort is pointless.

That said, yeah...I would probably still go, but unless parameters are narrowed it's almost certainly a waste of time.

EDIT: I do have some better suggestions to narrow it down. Maybe five main parameters, with three sub-parameters.

A) Five Main Parameters: Selected points on the radar map, a, b, c, d, e. Each corresponds to a one-minute interval when Cooper may have jumped. Say...20:08 to 20:12.

B) Three Sub-Parameters: Three selected points on the ground search map for each Main Parameter, 1,2,3. Each represents possible landing spot. Calculate each using these rules:

1) Cooper pulls right off the stairs. (wind drift factors)

2) Cooper freefalls for enough time to get stable, then pulls. (less wind drift)

3) Cooper impacts into ground without pulling. (no drift, probably some forward motion before basically going straight down after that)

That will give you fifteen very likely spots to search, and each will be less than a square mile. It's all I can think of and I'm open to different ideas. Due to the Tena Bar money, if you aren't planning to look there, you could discount sub-parameter number 3. (Impacts into ground) Leaves you ten spots to look. GPS coordinates for each of these spots is vital. And using this formula, you would need vehicles, but not a hundred people necessarily. It's still tough, though. One reason is because we don't know if Cooper jumped at say...20:08 or 20:08 and a half, which would be about a mile and half through the sky further.

I feel a Tena Bar headache coming on...Laugh

__________________________________________________

Blevins:

Do you really think Jerry Thomas, or anybody else for that matter, really cares where you think the search should be conducted? It's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that your unsolicited suggestions for the search area will be totally ignored. Maybe if you had more credibility, you'd get more attention. But there you go again, writing a mile-long post, taking up your usual 25% of the air-time -- and it will be a post that will, for the most part, be totally ignored.

MeyerLouie

Okay. Go out into the woods and search without a solid plan. See how far you get, and how much you find. Credibility, my eye. I've done searches from Mt. Index down to Mt. Adams and you guys haven't a clue what you're getting into. Don't speak to me about AAD and decaffeinated coffee. Those were common-sense suggestions I made. Otherwise, you may as well try shooting a bullet from your campsite at a forty-five degree angle into the sky and then go looking for it. Chances are better you'll find the bullet than anything Cooper.

And by the way...I WAS talking about Tena Bar until Georger jumped in with his usual Blevins Ranting foo-fo-rah.


mrshutter45

Apr 9, 2013, 8:07 AM
Post #42233 of 55797 (40576 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] MeyerLouie [In reply to] Can't Post

"Jerry Thomas, a Vietnam vet, Army survival trainer and drill sergeant, has been looking for D.B. Cooper since 1989. He's spent hundreds of days in the Washougal and Lewis watersheds, sometimes going months at a time searching for clues under the tall trees."

how close do you come to Jerry's skills?
what was the longest search you have done?
do you think Jerry would get lost in the forest like you did?
what inside information do you have on this case?
how is your opinion better than Jerry's?
what do you know about Jerry?
are you friends with Himmelsbach,?
could you possibly sling anymore mud on Jerry?


Robert99

Apr 9, 2013, 10:40 AM
Post #42234 of 55797 (40541 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] THE DISINTEGRATION OF BLEVINS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Rerun: Flight map is wrong. Or Cooper went into the Columbia over Portland and money bag ended up at Tena Bar. Or plant.

Blevins,

Just last week, you said you said you agreed with Tom Kaye's conclusion that if the money went into the river, ANY river, it would sink to the bottom and probably never be seen again.

But you really don't believe Tom Kaye's conclusions do you? Otherwise, you would not continue to claim that the money came down the Columbia from Portland, which is about 10 miles away, as a possibility.

Eliminate the river wash down theory, and you only have the flight path being wrong or that the money was a "plant". You seem to be the leading advocate for the "plant" theory.

You also seem to be the leading advocate for "The OFFICAL flight path map is correct".

To be wrong on all three of your above claims really requires some effort on your part.

Robert99


georger

Apr 9, 2013, 11:01 AM
Post #42235 of 55797 (38711 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] MeyerLouie [In reply to] Can't Post

 

And by the way...I WAS talking about Tena Bar until Georger jumped in with his usual Blevins Ranting foo-fo-rah.
Foo Fo Rah ? I thought we were having a
semi-pleasant discussion, for a change. You shape
shift faster than Superman puts on his cape! My
question was simple and you still avoid it!

Why would somebody plant money in an out-of-
the-way place on an out-of-the-way sandbar, in a
place that floods all the time and and is not conducive
to having a plant found ...


It's pretty clear to me you are frustrated and never
going to solve this. In addition you waste everyone's
elses' time and thwart them here, with all of your
personal b.s..

You're fired!

Cool


(This post was edited by georger on Apr 9, 2013, 11:17 AM)


MeyerLouie

Apr 9, 2013, 11:25 AM
Post #42236 of 55797 (38693 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] The Disintegration of Georger [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
he has a strong feeling KC is Cooper, nobody had a
clue it was him if it were true, so why would KC plant
money on Tena Bar to throw them off the trail?

same for Weber, LD, Gossett etc. etc.

all were in the clear 100%

_________________________________________________

Good point, MrShutter45!! As for KC: I'm getting a strong feeling too, but this time it's just gas.

MeyerLouie


MeyerLouie

Apr 9, 2013, 11:59 AM
Post #42237 of 55797 (38684 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] MeyerLouie [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Opinion: Washougal could be a waste of time. Need more information on a possible drop point.

Searching without a good start point?
Think about this for a moment:

Let's say you narrow it down to an area of only three miles by three miles. That's NINE SQUARE MILES of search area. Do any of you backwoods experts realize how difficult it is to grid search a mere three by three mile area with less than a hundred searchers?

Look, I'm all in favor of a ground search, but being a veteran of the NW Search and Rescue, I know a few things about mounting such an effort.

Okay...let's say you've got a hundred good searchers to work with for this grid effort.

Let's say further you plan on only doing one square mile out of nine at a time using these hundred people. (To cover total area of three by three miles only)

Okay...the best you can do with your hundred searchers is to place them about fifty feet apart and start going. After all one hundred searchers go out a full mile on this grid, they return...and then have to do the same thing eight more times. Once for each section of the grid. And with people fifty feet apart in the woods, it would be easy to miss something.

And that only covers an area three miles long, three miles wide. Nine square miles. I know I said that already...

The possible Cooper jump zone, even conservatively, has to be around 20x10 miles at the minimum (no one really knows) and that's TWO HUNDRED square miles! This is also an area TWENTY-TWO times LARGER than the tiny nine mile area you have to search nine times with a hundred people!

(*the magnitude of the effort is revealed*) Smile

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here. I'm trying to bring people to reality on this. In order to avoid wasting your time and effort on an area that has (at best) a 1/22 chance of being the right area, you have to narrow down the search area considerably. And the only way to know that is to establish with an 80-90% certainty the point where Cooper jumped. Even after all of that, chances are not good. It's not all flat and happy terrain out there, and sometimes the reason no one finds anything for years on someone is because they ended up in a spot that is difficult to reach. There are so many problems involved when you are talking about such a large area.

Now there are some parameters to assist. One...Cooper jumps off the stairs. (wind drift, time aloft are factors here) Cooper freefalls for some seconds and pulls. (less drift) Whatever you use to determine possible landing spots, you need better information. Otherwise this effort is pointless.

That said, yeah...I would probably still go, but unless parameters are narrowed it's almost certainly a waste of time.

EDIT: I do have some better suggestions to narrow it down. Maybe five main parameters, with three sub-parameters.

A) Five Main Parameters: Selected points on the radar map, a, b, c, d, e. Each corresponds to a one-minute interval when Cooper may have jumped. Say...20:08 to 20:12.

B) Three Sub-Parameters: Three selected points on the ground search map for each Main Parameter, 1,2,3. Each represents possible landing spot. Calculate each using these rules:

1) Cooper pulls right off the stairs. (wind drift factors)

2) Cooper freefalls for enough time to get stable, then pulls. (less wind drift)

3) Cooper impacts into ground without pulling. (no drift, probably some forward motion before basically going straight down after that)

That will give you fifteen very likely spots to search, and each will be less than a square mile. It's all I can think of and I'm open to different ideas. Due to the Tena Bar money, if you aren't planning to look there, you could discount sub-parameter number 3. (Impacts into ground) Leaves you ten spots to look. GPS coordinates for each of these spots is vital. And using this formula, you would need vehicles, but not a hundred people necessarily. It's still tough, though. One reason is because we don't know if Cooper jumped at say...20:08 or 20:08 and a half, which would be about a mile and half through the sky further.

I feel a Tena Bar headache coming on...Laugh

__________________________________________________

Blevins:

Do you really think Jerry Thomas, or anybody else for that matter, really cares where you think the search should be conducted? It's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that your unsolicited suggestions for the search area will be totally ignored. Maybe if you had more credibility, you'd get more attention. But there you go again, writing a mile-long post, taking up your usual 25% of the air-time -- and it will be a post that will, for the most part, be totally ignored.

MeyerLouie

Okay. Go out into the woods and search without a solid plan. See how far you get, and how much you find. Credibility, my eye. I've done searches from Mt. Index down to Mt. Adams and you guys haven't a clue what you're getting into. Don't speak to me about AAD and decaffeinated coffee. Those were common-sense suggestions I made. Otherwise, you may as well try shooting a bullet from your campsite at a forty-five degree angle into the sky and then go looking for it. Chances are better you'll find the bullet than anything Cooper.

And by the way...I WAS talking about Tena Bar until Georger jumped in with his usual Blevins Ranting foo-fo-rah.
_________________________________________________


Blevins:

Jerry Thomas, myself, and others have spent some quality time out in the woods. Like you're the only expert woodsman around? I'd go so far to say that JT's time in the woods, coupled with his wilderness survival expertise, puts you to shame. So I think I'd rather listen to him. As I said, you'll be ignored -- okay then, bye-bye.

This post is rather focused, Blevins -- nice change for a change. It's apparent you took my advice and got back on your ADD medication and made fewer stops at Starbucks these past couple of days. Good for you! Just keep doing whatever your Rice Krispies tell you do...

MeyerLouie


MeyerLouie

Apr 9, 2013, 12:03 PM
Post #42238 of 55797 (38679 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] MeyerLouie [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"Jerry Thomas, a Vietnam vet, Army survival trainer and drill sergeant, has been looking for D.B. Cooper since 1989. He's spent hundreds of days in the Washougal and Lewis watersheds, sometimes going months at a time searching for clues under the tall trees."

how close do you come to Jerry's skills?
what was the longest search you have done?
do you think Jerry would get lost in the forest like you did?
what inside information do you have on this case?
how is your opinion better than Jerry's?
what do you know about Jerry?
are you friends with Himmelsbach,?
could you possibly sling anymore mud on Jerry?
__________________________________________________

That says it all.....another great post, Mrshutter45.

MeyerLouie


skyjack71

Apr 9, 2013, 12:11 PM
Post #42239 of 55797 (38674 views)
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Re: [MeyerLouie] Why Plant MONEY! [In reply to] Can't Post

   
In reply to:
Georger was trying to make a point -- based on logic, common sense, and focus. But you totally missed it -- Why would someone pick such a place in the first place to "plant" money? What might explain the 3 bundles being stacked together? Maybe "unnatural means" is a really unnatural expression.


My THeories about the Money!

The money was damaged when he went back in 1979 to retrive the balance of the bounty he did not take with him in 1971.

After the jump he put on his person only what he could put in his pocket and if the authorities picked him up he would claim he found it. There was someone else who could etrieve the money in the event he could NOT get back to do it himself and was in prison where he would get the medical care he needed.

Remember that I have always believed that Weber committed the crime because he was at a crossing in his life - and there was NO future due to the diagnosis at that time.

The FBI did NOT look into the past of Duane and the wife of the day in a very effective way...since knowledge of his having committed the crime even after the fact would have caused her to be charged as a accessory.

She told me one time on the phone that she contacted a relative of hers (he was in law enforcement) to ask if she could be implemented after a crime was committed and if some of the money was spent on her.

She was told by this law enforcement relative she could be charged as an accessory and because she willing took money knowing it was stolen that she could be charged. She had childern at home.

I do NOT know if the above story was in reference to Cooper money. Just something I was told in a 2 AM phone call - and there was alcohol involved. So how much does on believe under those circumstances.

She was desperated to talk to me and that was the night she reveal other things she had never told me before. Her life was NOT good at that time and she had a daughter with some serious problems....the daughter ended up in Eugene and shortly after she returned to the area her mother lived in she ODed.

This is the daughter who told me SHE KNEW DUANE WAS WEBER, but considering her problem - who would have believed her! She told this to me on a night I called and the mother was not home. She had been trying to figure out how to contact me. She had to tell me something and she did ON that night. I believe what she told me, but I will never be able to prove it!


georger

Apr 9, 2013, 12:14 PM
Post #42240 of 55797 (38712 views)
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Re: [Robert99] THE DISINTEGRATION OF BLEVINS [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Blevins,

Just last week, you said you said you agreed with Tom Kaye's conclusion that if the money went into the river, ANY river, it would sink to the bottom and probably never be seen again.

But you really don't believe Tom Kaye's conclusions do you? Otherwise, you would not continue to claim that the money came down the Columbia from Portland, which is about 10 miles away, as a possibility.

Eliminate the river wash down theory, and you only have the flight path being wrong or that the money was a "plant". You seem to be the leading advocate for the "plant" theory.

You also seem to be the leading advocate for "The OFFICAL flight path map is correct".

To be wrong on all three of your above claims really requires some effort on your part.

Robert99
The money at Tina's Bar meets none of the
requirements of a "plant", not even remotely. Or even
a 'burial' per se. It would make more sense that the
money was part of a "burial" someone did, for later
retrieval. Then whoever buried the money just failed
to show up before the money moved and/or had
rotted away in the main.

When Ingram found the money in 1980 it was for the
most part out in the open; no real markers (trees etc)
close by. In fact the money was so 'out in the open',
relatively speaking at the time, resting at or near the
tide line, that the Fazios thought it had arrived with
the last tide just days before. Palmer proved that
wrong.

Tom says Palmer misread the strata. I find that
difficult to believe and Tom has not offered any
independent proof that demonstrates Palmer screwed
up to that degree. Until proof is presented I cannot
buy into that idea even if Tom turns out correct. Proof
is required no matter who it is saying Palmer was
wrong! Tom has credentials or he never would have
been selected to be on the 'science team' in the first
place. The issue is not Tom or Tom's credentials.
The issue is independent proof that Palmer may
have been wrong, if he was. Or, that Palmer was
correct if in fact he was.
Matters of this kind
require independent corroboration, in any event.

Unless my facts are wrong, the Ingram find is fairly
high up on the shoreline, not at the water's edge as
some have alleged. Either the money washed in from
above or behind down the slope of the shoreline, or
it washed in relatively high during a high water event
or a series of such events, or it is downstream residue
from the dredging spoils placed 50-100 yards further
up the shoreline and spread in 1974.

Palmer's report is very specific! It says: 'the money
was found in the upper active layer of the beach
sand'. The Upper Active Layer being worked'

And it was eroding out naturally when Ingram saw it
as a hump just below the surface, and dug it out.

The only real issue is whether Palmer correctly
identified the 1974 dredging layer below the Ingram
find. If Tom is correct and Palmer misread the layer
below Ingram's find, is it possible that Ingram's find
was in the last remnant of dredging spoil mixed with
more current sand, downstream of the original dredge
deposit? Recall that the original dredging deposit was
spread and the top layers moved by erosion and
small high water events (downstream). The Ingram
find is just downstream of the 1974 dredge deposit
spread zone.


Palmer thought the Ingram find arrived no more than
a year before, during the flood event (1979) ending
the worst drought in 40 years in 1878. His time is
based on his reading of the strata below the Ingram
find.

Strata equals time, in this matter.

If Palmer misread the strata and the Cooper money
was in a mix of the upper active layer mixed in with
remnants of the 1974 dredge residue sand, then it is
possible the Cooper money was part of the 1974
dredging material or even an earlier material.

Location and strata matters in this issue.


(This post was edited by georger on Apr 9, 2013, 12:55 PM)


skyjack71

Apr 9, 2013, 12:37 PM
Post #42241 of 55797 (38697 views)
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The money at Tina's Bar meets none of the
requirements of a "plant", not even remotely.

Wrong! It did and I was with him in 1979 when he went to Tena's bar (done to the beach BY himself) and the Red Lion when he threw a paper bag in the water.


Georger STATED:
"When Ingram found the money in 1980 it was for the
most part out in the open; no real markers (trees etc)
close by. In fact the money was so 'out in the open', relatively speaking at the time, resting at or near the
tide line, that the Fazios thought it had arrived with the last tide just days before. Palmer proved that wrong."

UnsureUnimpressedShocked

Exactly WHERE did U get this information. HAVE you BEEN on that BEACH with R. Himmelsbach and one of the FAZIOS - well I have. In 2001. YOU are really trying to screw with FACTs professor & you have made a serious error and also Kaye if your statement actually reflects the opinions rendered.

The trees were there - the place pointed out to the documentary people by FAZION AND HIMMELSBACH - was not at the tide line of the day. Remember the Tide Line changes.

The REFERENCE WAS TREE LINE!

In 2001 some of trees had come and gone. But THE location of the money find NEEDS to be described in FEET from the fence.
Even the fence may have changed by now.

CrazyShocked In red a must read statement! WHY do U not give KAYE a call NOW!

The locations at that time was explained as just being out of the tree line. That is because I made a statement - why would anyone build a fire under a tree! It was explained that the trees had changed - which was understandable.

Who build a fire on the TIDE line of the time - the ground stays damp. You build the fire above the tide line. Unsure

This was ALL discussed in 2001.
We were talking causually and not being recorded. HOW do I remember these things - I was ask to get on the Ground and pretend to be scooping the sand away. Well, I WALKED away to the parking area.

So Georger I have BEEN THERE and I DO dispute what you said and if that is what Kaye said I then disputed that also. The tide line in 1979 was NOT the tide line all of the time. Tides are affect and effect and time.
The wording was in-appropiate for men of your stature whose credibitability are SUPPOSELY emnient in any decisions made about the case.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Apr 9, 2013, 12:52 PM)


georger

Apr 9, 2013, 12:59 PM
Post #42242 of 55797 (38683 views)
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In reply to:

The money at Tina's Bar meets none of the
requirements of a "plant", not even remotely.

Wrong! It did and I was with him in 1979 when he went to Tena's bar (done to the beach BY himself) and the Red Lion when he threw a paper bag in the water.

So, he went "done to the beach at Tina Bar" and
threw a paper bag off at the Red Lion Inn both.

What date in 1979?

What month and day in 1979?


(This post was edited by georger on Apr 9, 2013, 1:01 PM)


skyjack71

Apr 9, 2013, 1:12 PM
Post #42243 of 55797 (38678 views)
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Re: [georger] THE DISINTEGRATION OF BLEVINS [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote:
When Ingram found the money in 1980 it was for the
most part out in the open; no real markers (trees etc)
close by. In fact the money was so 'out in the open',
relatively speaking at the time, resting at or near the
tide line, that the Fazios thought it had arrived with the last tide just days before. Palmer proved that wrong.

Brian did have to scoop below the surface to make the indent for the fire - SO HE MONEY WAS NOT ON THE SURFACE - BUT 3 INCHES or so beneath the surface. What who ever stated is very very misleading. The money was covered and had to be uncovered.

Just exactly what DEGREES does Kaye have - and are they specific to the subject matter. Arizona and old bones is not WA and rivers. YOU MEAN to tell ME U do NOT know WHAT credentials Kaye holds! RIDICULOUS!

If Kaye does NOT have the actual credential then the complete study has to be ignorned. Palmer did have credential and remember Palmer was working with FRESH information and not information clouded by he said she said and time.


Quote:
Unless my facts are wrong, the Ingram find is fairly
high up on the shoreline, not at the water's edge as some have alleged. Either the money washed in from above or behind down the slope of the shoreline, orit washed in relatively high during a high water event
or a series of such events, or it is downstream residue
from the dredging spoils placed 50-100 yards furtherup the shoreline and spread in 1974.

U have posted on this subject without knowing if YOUR facts are wrong or correct. The information on Brian is relative easy to obtain.



Quote:
Palmer's report is very specific! It says: 'the money
was found in the upper active layer of the beach
sand'.

I am completely surprised and actual put off by your statement above. U have NO idea what the UPPER ACTIVE LAYER is means! NOT one IOTA! It can be several inches - every took a walk on the beach - when a person makes a mark with their feet in the sand (I do not mean the impressions at the waterline in wet sand) or builda mound with their toy shovel and bucket - THINK!


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Apr 9, 2013, 1:14 PM)


skyjack71

Apr 9, 2013, 1:21 PM
Post #42244 of 55797 (38672 views)
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Re: [georger] THE DISINTEGRATION OF BLEVINS [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

The money at Tina's Bar meets none of the
requirements of a "plant", not even remotely.

Wrong! It did and I was with him in 1979 when he went to Tena's bar (done to the beach BY himself) and the Red Lion when he threw a paper bag in the water.

So, he went "done to the beach at Tina Bar" and
threw a paper bag off at the Red Lion Inn both.

What date in 1979?

What month and day in 1979?

Now who does NOT search?
This has been discussed in this thread and due to the temp and Englebert appearing in Tahoe.

We determined it was the last wk of Sept or the 1st wk of Oct 1979.

When we left for this 5 day trip to WA it was warm in Salt Lake becauese I have pictures of me with shorts and short sleeves. It was cool enough the next day to wear jeans. After we got to Seattle is was FALL clothes the entire trip....but little rain, although I had taken my rain coat with me because DUANE told me it aways rains in Seattle that time of the yr.


georger

Apr 9, 2013, 1:37 PM
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Re: [skyjack71] THE DISINTEGRATION OF BLEVINS [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Quote:
Palmer's report is very specific! It says: 'the money
was found in the upper active layer of the beach
sand'.

I am completely surprised and actual put off by your statement above. U have NO idea what the UPPER ACTIVE LAYER is means! NOT one IOTA! It can be several inches - every took a walk on the beach - when a person makes a mark with their feet in the sand (I do not mean the impressions at the waterline in wet sand) or builda mound with their toy shovel and bucket - THINK!
So you are disputing the Palmer report? Jo take off
your tinfoil hat!

LaughLaughLaugh


(This post was edited by georger on Apr 9, 2013, 1:37 PM)


skyjack71

Apr 9, 2013, 1:39 PM
Post #42246 of 55797 (38658 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Planting Money [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Weber was never in the clear!!SmileSmile

Weber took that business trip as an opportunity to go back and retrive the rest of the money he did NOT take with him. Just knowing how he thought and how the worked things - he never put everything in one bank so to speak. I am the same way.

Would I actually be sitting here with life drifting by if I had NOT SEEN the WHITE bank BAG with the name of the BANK on it?

I actually saw and held the Airline ticket.

I had a stub - but never knew the meaning of the SEA TAC stub - could have been a parking ticket or box - I do not know. It was a little blue ticket maybe 2in by 1in. The match book I described to Himmelsbach, but I had just threw them out - just onle match book - didn't mean anything.

A satchel - that Mr. H told me didn't mean anything.

A jar of stuff in the garage -Duand told me not to throw away.
Like a large jar when we bought things for businesses. There was a metal top on it and the stuff inside - I didn't know what it was. and now I think it was part of an old parachute.

If Duane WEBER was setting me up for a death bed confession it was 17 yrs in the making?


georger

Apr 9, 2013, 1:39 PM
Post #42247 of 55797 (38656 views)
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We determined it was the last wk of Sept or the 1st wk of Oct 1979.

.
Possible. You lucked out.Laugh


(This post was edited by georger on Apr 9, 2013, 1:40 PM)
Attachments: 1979 9038.png (13.8 KB)


mrshutter45

Apr 9, 2013, 1:48 PM
Post #42248 of 55797 (38649 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Planting Money [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Weber was never in the clear!!SmileSmile

Weber took that business trip as an opportunity to go back and retrive the rest of the money he did NOT take with him. Just knowing how he thought and how the worked things - he never put everything in one bank so to speak. I am the same way.

Would I actually be sitting here with life drifting by if I had NOT SEEN the WHITE bank BAG with the name of the BANK on it?

I actually saw and held the Airline ticket.

I had a stub - but never knew the meaning of the SEA TAC stub - could have been a parking ticket or box - I do not know. It was a little blue ticket maybe 2in by 1in. The match book I described to Himmelsbach, but I had just threw them out - just onle match book - didn't mean anything.

A satchel - that Mr. H told me didn't mean anything.

A jar of stuff in the garage -Duand told me not to throw away.
Like a large jar when we bought things for businesses. There was a metal top on it and the stuff inside - I didn't know what it was. and now I think it was part of an old parachute.

If Duane WEBER was setting me up for a death bed confession it was 17 yrs in the making?

I wasn't talking about now or 1990, before 1996, nobody knew Duane Weber. it doesn't make sense to plant the money in order to throw the law off the track. they were never on a track to Cooper at anytime?

Weber, KC, and a lot of the rest were never known while the money was being "planted" so why throw the police off an extremely cold trail?

was Duane in the Ohio prison from 44 to 49?


Robert99

Apr 9, 2013, 2:05 PM
Post #42249 of 55797 (38636 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] AIRLINE TICKET "STUBS" [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I actually saw and held the Airline ticket.

I had a stub - but never knew the meaning of the SEA TAC stub - could have been a parking ticket or box - I do not know. It was a little blue ticket maybe 2in by 1in. I didn't know what it was. and now I think it was part of an old parachute.

Jo, Any airline ticket paperwork that Duane had in 1971 would be the same size as the ticket that the FBI recovered from NWA.

Your "little blue ticket maybe 2in by 1in" may have been a parking ticket but, if so, it would have a date and time stamped on it. But it didn't have anything to do with a parachute.

Robert99


georger

Apr 9, 2013, 3:21 PM
Post #42250 of 55797 (38612 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Planting Money [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I wasn't talking about now or 1990, before 1996, nobody knew Duane Weber. it doesn't make sense to plant the money in order to throw the law off the track. they were never on a track to Cooper at anytime?
Not to mention looking for Cooper in the Vancouver
area!


And the even far more remote abstraction of
burying!!! money at Tena Bar, way off the track!


It's asinine on its face.

Duane might as well have stuffed Cooper bills up one
of Faxio's cows asses in hopes it would come out in
the milk served in the vending machines in the
Federal Building. It's laughable. Crazy!Crazy Now I
suppose you will introduce: Duane the Dairyman ?

Jo there are real tales in the Cooper saga. Your tall
tales and fabrications don't happen to be one.

You have managed to accumulate a certain knowledge
of the Cooper case, for some reason. But your Duane
Fable is a pure concoction you can't even remember
or keep track of in spite of day-to-day repetitions
you struggle through.

Even Elvis and the Beatles got old! Your Duane tales
are pre-historic and a source of humor!

Prior to Blevins and Kaye you had never-ever talked
about Duane making a "plant"!

I want to hear about Duane-the-dairyman! Laugh

Its all good humor and we thank you for it, daily.
It keep people coming to the thread to see whats
next on: "As Jo Weber Turns". The longest running
soap opera in the Cooperphelia. You deserve an
Emmy!

Geoff Gray really didn't give you full credit! You have
the longest running Cooper Comic in the whole saga.
Fully deserving of an Emmy or something -

Nobody else has even come close!

I applaud your chutzpah.

Three Cheers for Jo! Even the FBI and SA Larry Carr gave you credit!


(This post was edited by georger on Apr 9, 2013, 3:39 PM)


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