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skyjack71

Feb 13, 2013, 6:59 PM
Post #40826 of 52754 (18953 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In reply to:
nichols says:
November 30, 2011 at 1:45 am (Edit)

bruce, forget about being in competition with blevins. there isnít any. heís neurotic and facing little man syndrome. iíve seen the DZ and its VERY evident. this so-called expert in everything who goes by 377 enjoys the roost. he knows nothing about db cooper. heís just in the game to cause disharmony. thatís evident too. we know dormuth. no such thing that blevins states about mr. dormuth is true. dormuth is one of us and YOU are on the right path with the witness. keep digging. the truth will be shocking and its not coming from the DZ. youíre closer than you think. gínight.

The above has a lot of the earmark of both JT and Knoss.
Since Knoss has referred to the name Nichols before in irrational postings and in things he sent to me and told me on the phone.

The mention of Dormuth threw me a little there and made me think of someone who DOES not post to this thread.

The poster is trying hard to hide his ID and one of the crew came to mind along with our beloved Georger....I think this crew member and Georger may have talked over the yrs. The mention of Dormuth - is a key to the posters ID.

Galen Cook is also a good candidate for the post, because of his mention the TRUTH will be shocking and not coming from the DZ. Cook I believe reads the thread.

The statement "you're closer than you think" sticks out and tells me it could be Galen. No caps is an earmark of JT, Knoss and Cook.

Wonder if the co-pilot and Georger talk!


RobertMBlevins

Feb 13, 2013, 7:17 PM
Post #40827 of 52754 (18945 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Just curious [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
If you own a website (Domain) it's pretty easy to track someone coming onto the site.
the one I use has a "site stat" that gives IP addresses of the incoming traffic, among
other stats which can be viewed Cool

My point is yeah, you can ID or track an IP but that in itself does not mean that it was Knoss's IP to begin with. You need to have a little more information than that. Like a physical address that matches his last known. Or even correlation with posts of his from other sites. Not saying she didn't have this or that you can't get this information ...just saying if all she had was an IP of an post that was signed by Knoss, which is what was basically said, that's not enough to say it was Knoss.
Oh well. Enough of this. I've got a bathroom to clean. Yuck Smile

I agree, but, you can zoom in on the map to the location or just trace the IP thru another site and most of the time it will give the name, the blog site has the IP's for each individual poster, so it would probably be pretty easy to see the double IP listing under a different name. I guess we would still need to hear this from the owner of the website/blog, remember Quade found out real quick when Robert's wife made a comment during his vacation.

Regina's article was the recipient of more than 400 absolutely filthy comments. We're talking people with serious psychological problems. If you don't believe that, email me at adventurebooksofseattleAT G Frickin Mail Dot Com and I will shoot you off a copy of the PDF. It's shocking, to say the least. Wordpress was about an inch from deleting her account.

Regina didn't give me many details. She just said she went on the internet or something and figured out how to trace who was posting what. And that maybe the same three people were making most of the postings. I know she deleted Knoss' ability to post, and two other people. Then she had to go through all the comments and delete them. I think many of them were not actually deleted by HER, but by Wordpress, because those just disappeared. The ones she deleted say 'Deleted by blog owner'. She didn't really tell me much about it. She was unhappy having to do it...and unhappy that I brought it to her attention. At first, she stalled me when I asked her to take down the REALLY bad posts. I came back two weeks later and told her I had made the PDF and sent it off in print to Wordpress in SF and an email copy to the webmaster and to Mark Mullenburg. A couple of weeks after that, the article was heavily cleaned up.

Bottom line is that it is very unlikely that the two comments Bruce posted were actually done by FBI agents, present or former.

And...that there are some very flaky people in Cooperland. Don't believe me? Shoot me the email and you can see for yourself.


skyjack71

Feb 13, 2013, 7:22 PM
Post #40828 of 52754 (18933 views)
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Re: [BruceSmith] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

"Mr. Smith:
You are a terrific journalist and we await your new book. We think you will set the tone straight, without all of the egomaniacal activities of other so-called journalists, one in particular.
A point to make, we understand that Ralph Himmelsbach (retired) did not attend the Portland or Ariel events. This is unfortunate, as we were hoping that YOU would interview him. Your earlier assertion was correct, that he never interviewed Tina Mucklow. We know this for a fact, as we worked the NORJAK case from Seattle FO, the office of origin for the case. Apparently, Mr. Himmelsbach still knows better to stay away from these kind of media-driven events. We are sure that he was warned again, even though he is in advanced years.
Keep up, Mr. Smith. you're on the right track.

Sincerely,
Mr. N and Mr. G.

This one is very composed, but I am under the impression not connected to the thread.

Reference to egomaniacal activities and Mr. H not attending the Ariel events - says the person or persons did NOT attend, but is aware of Blevins and his claims. The fact Mr. H did NOT interview Tina is a WELL known fact. The individual or individuals are just composing a post and a continued interest in the case, but does NOT seem to create any speculations and encouraging Bruce to go forward in the manner he has currently using.













]


mrshutter45

Feb 13, 2013, 7:32 PM
Post #40829 of 52754 (18927 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Just curious [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not saying this isn't true, I remember this site from a while back and reading some of those comments. there is another on the CNN website if I recall correctly, with Knoss, JT, Robert, and Marla. I found those while searching Marla's story.

It's pretty easy to find people online today, I would say that if Regina claims this story, odds are she has the right information, I only said it would be better to hear it from her. I really don't need to see the email, but thanks anyway.


MeyerLouie

Feb 13, 2013, 7:47 PM
Post #40830 of 52754 (18908 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] RIP to Larry Jr [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
This is totally off-topic, but I suppose I should say something about it.

My kid brother Larry is over at Good Samaritan Hospital in Puyallup, and he's on life-support. They're going to turn off the machines in about half-an-hour, after the minister comes. People have been there all day, but his wife has requested she be alone with him and the minister for this final act. He was only 56. They put a stint into him not long ago. Something about a kidney stone. Then the thing got infected and he was rushed back to the hospital. Then he had a heart attack. They were able to get him back from that, but then his kidneys shut down for good and he went unconscious.

I got the phone call this morning, so I went out to the hospital to say goodbye. The really sad thing is that his wife just lost her mother last week as well. What an effed-up deal this all is for her.

I talked to Larry's kids for a while. One son, threee daughters. Told them some of the fun things Larry and I used to do when we were kids. Playing Army in the jungles on Guam back in the early 60's, when they still had tanks, brass, artillery, and live frickin' shells all over the island. Or the time I took him on a hike all around Mount Rainier on the Wonderland Trail (I was 14, he was 12) and then he decided he wanted to LIVE in the park and refused to hike with me out to the parking lot to meet our ride. Even though Larry was my stepbrother, he was the only brother I ever had. We met when I was seven years old and he was five.

The only way I finally got him to follow me out was to throw all the food into a lake. He got really mad that I ruined his opportunity to stay there for good. Smile

He has a big family, and they were all at the hospital. Four kids, seven grandchildren, my sister Cathy, my other sister Noel, lots of friends. He was well-known in his hometown of Sumner, WA. You could just mention his name to anyone, and they knew who he was. He fished a lot and was a big-hearted guy. He was, in some ways, a better person than I will ever be. I will miss him. He saved my life twice when we were younger. Once, he pulled me out of Lake Tapps when I got too exhausted to make it back to shore. Another time, we were going down the White River on inner tubes and I got my legs stuck between a board I had placed between two inner tubes tied together. When my feet hit a snag, I flipped over and was rushing down the river upside down and couldn't free myself. Larry was always the better swimmer. He jumped off his tube and got underneath me and pulled me free of the board holding my legs pinned. I'm sure I looked stupid floating down that river with my legs up in the air.

In his will, Larry said he didn't want a church service with everyone crying. He wanted a wake. So that's what he's going to get. A party celebrating his life. It's been particularly hard on my dad, and unfortunately his health makes it impossible for him to fly up from Phoenix to attend. I will make sure to send pictures.

I'm sorry for your loss, Blevins. Your brother looks like he was a great guy, and his wife, to lose a mother and a husband a week apart, well, that's almost too much to bear. My heart goes out to her -- I would guess she's going to need a lot of support in the new few weeks, months, and years. I understand somewhat -- my mother lost her husband and a daughter two weeks apart -- a long time ago, and they both died in the same hospital. It took a long time for our family to get back on our feet -- as I know it will with your sister-in-law and your family. God bless you and yours during this difficult time.

MeyerLouie


georger

Feb 13, 2013, 8:21 PM
Post #40831 of 52754 (18893 views)
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Re: [smokin99] Just curious [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Regina did ID Knoss on her article somehow.

Whatever..my whole point is less about B Smith's letters and more about the fact that it would be next to impossible to ID Knoss only by assuming that he made the original post to which Regina is comparing subsequent posts.
That is how you said that she identified him and I'm saying - IF that is the way it was done -- then not so fast.
Rationalize your statement now with "she did it somehow" if you need to but, if you can't back it up with proof don't you think it's kind of unfair to continue to make the accusation?

I think we should discuss Blevins internet bottom
feeding gutter issues for the next five years - strap in!
Pull the tab. Airtwardo is already out the door!
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeehaw.

Isnt this ..... fun? Its good entertainment, for worms.
Crazy


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 13, 2013, 8:22 PM)


georger

Feb 13, 2013, 8:24 PM
Post #40832 of 52754 (18887 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Just curious [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not saying this isn't true, I remember this site from a while back and reading some of those comments. there is another on the CNN website if I recall correctly, with Knoss, JT, Robert, and Marla. I found those while searching Marla's story.

It's pretty easy to find people online today, I would say that if Regina claims this story, odds are she has the right information, I only said it would be better to hear it from her. I really don't need to see the email, but thanks anyway.

Are we having fun yet?


RobertMBlevins

Feb 13, 2013, 9:26 PM
Post #40833 of 52754 (18864 views)
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Re: [georger] Just curious [In reply to] Can't Post

Look...all I did was make an annoucement about my brother. I understand hardly any of you know me in person, and none of you knew Larry. Thought it was better than some of you hearing it on Facebook or something.

As far as the Regina article, we should probably drop that I suppose. Let's face it. There are some sickos in Cooperland. We all know this, right?

Moving back to Cooper suits me just fine.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 13, 2013, 10:32 PM)


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 9:14 AM
Post #40834 of 52754 (18804 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] LETS MOOOOOV AWN. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Look...all I did was make an annoucement about my brother. I understand hardly any of you know me in person, and none of you knew Larry. Thought it was better than some of you hearing it on Facebook or something.

As far as the Regina article, we should probably drop that I suppose. Let's face it. There are some sickos in Cooperland. We all know this, right?

Moving back to Cooper suits me just fine.

With all due respect, I did not know your brother,
Ive never heard of your brother before, this is a forum
on DB Cooper, not Facebook ... can we please
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendego or must we be
sidetracked by some poster who thinks he's a
celebrity, ad his personal business must be our
business too ! ?

377? How's your wife and the Pope?

Bruce? How's your Chutzpah ?

Snowmman? How's your ringworm?

Anyone have an update on that asteroid approaching
Earth tomorrow?

Who will "hijack" the DB Cooper case next for personal
profit ? Any personal news on that? (of course not!)

The Tomac, Idaho American Legion will be having a
free pancake supper February 17th, from 3:00pm to
7:00pm. All attend!

Did DB Cooper intend to jump at night? How did all
the delays screw up his original plan? Did he have a
"plan" ?

Crazy


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 14, 2013, 12:22 PM)


MeyerLouie

Feb 14, 2013, 12:53 PM
Post #40835 of 52754 (18738 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

In reply to:
nichols says:
November 30, 2011 at 1:45 am (Edit)

bruce, forget about being in competition with blevins. there isnít any. heís neurotic and facing little man syndrome. iíve seen the DZ and its VERY evident. this so-called expert in everything who goes by 377 enjoys the roost. he knows nothing about db cooper. heís just in the game to cause disharmony. thatís evident too. we know dormuth. no such thing that blevins states about mr. dormuth is true. dormuth is one of us and YOU are on the right path with the witness. keep digging. the truth will be shocking and its not coming from the DZ. youíre closer than you think. gínight.

The above has a lot of the earmark of both JT and Knoss.
Since Knoss has referred to the name Nichols before in irrational postings and in things he sent to me and told me on the phone.

The mention of Dormuth threw me a little there and made me think of someone who DOES not post to this thread.

The poster is trying hard to hide his ID and one of the crew came to mind along with our beloved Georger....I think this crew member and Georger may have talked over the yrs. The mention of Dormuth - is a key to the posters ID.

Galen Cook is also a good candidate for the post, because of his mention the TRUTH will be shocking and not coming from the DZ. Cook I believe reads the thread.

The statement "you're closer than you think" sticks out and tells me it could be Galen. No caps is an earmark of JT, Knoss and Cook.

Wonder if the co-pilot and Georger talk!

__________________________________________________
This is pure, unadulterated character assassination. How would you feel if someone only speculated publicly about your possible, alleged guilt? Unless you have proof or confirmation, you should not be doing this. It's so disrespectful, especially to those who have been publicly accused or humiliated and did nothing. I believe there is a law against this kind of thing. I'm not up the current laws, but the words slander and defamation of character come to mind. This kind of activity should have no place on this forum. It's a new low for sure.

MeyerLouie


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Feb 14, 2013, 4:05 PM
Post #40836 of 52754 (18696 views)
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Re: [MeyerLouie] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

In reply to:
nichols says:
November 30, 2011 at 1:45 am (Edit)

bruce, forget about being in competition with blevins. there isnít any. heís neurotic and facing little man syndrome. iíve seen the DZ and its VERY evident. this so-called expert in everything who goes by 377 enjoys the roost. he knows nothing about db cooper. heís just in the game to cause disharmony. thatís evident too. we know dormuth. no such thing that blevins states about mr. dormuth is true. dormuth is one of us and YOU are on the right path with the witness. keep digging. the truth will be shocking and its not coming from the DZ. youíre closer than you think. gínight.

The above has a lot of the earmark of both JT and Knoss.
Since Knoss has referred to the name Nichols before in irrational postings and in things he sent to me and told me on the phone.

The mention of Dormuth threw me a little there and made me think of someone who DOES not post to this thread.

The poster is trying hard to hide his ID and one of the crew came to mind along with our beloved Georger....I think this crew member and Georger may have talked over the yrs. The mention of Dormuth - is a key to the posters ID.

Galen Cook is also a good candidate for the post, because of his mention the TRUTH will be shocking and not coming from the DZ. Cook I believe reads the thread.

The statement "you're closer than you think" sticks out and tells me it could be Galen. No caps is an earmark of JT, Knoss and Cook.

Wonder if the co-pilot and Georger talk!

__________________________________________________
This is pure, unadulterated character assassination. How would you feel if someone only speculated publicly about your possible, alleged guilt? Unless you have proof or confirmation, you should not be doing this. It's so disrespectful, especially to those who have been publicly accused or humiliated and did nothing. I believe there is a law against this kind of thing. I'm not up the current laws, but the words slander and defamation of character come to mind. This kind of activity should have no place on this forum. It's a new low for sure.

MeyerLouie

You skip reading Knoss' posts then? I guess we should have all done that, when first entering this thread.Crazy

Matt


377  (F 666)

Feb 14, 2013, 4:18 PM
Post #40837 of 52754 (18695 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You skip reading Knoss' posts then? I guess we should have all done that, when first entering this thread.

Matt

Matt doesnt let BK slide on anything. No slack given, ever. BK's claim about the Cooper jump being made by Duane Weber with a chest mount reserve jury rigged as a back main was not credible. Not even close.

Still, I dont grudge BK's postings. I don't like censorship period. It's soooo easy to tune out, skip over, ignore.

Himmelsbach has an amazing aviation background including flying P 51s and P 40s in the military. I am surprised he doesnt attach more significance to Cooper's alleged flight configuration demands which were very specific and, to me, showed that he was connected with aviation.

Most non aviation folks dont know the difference between a flap and an elevator, much less a flap angle that would keep airspeed low enough for a good exit. They wouldn't know how high you could safely fly without pressurization or supplemental oxygen. They also wouldn't think about exit speeds being so important for a jump.

The Tena Bar money still frustrates me. I stare at my Cooper twenty, but I cant make it talk. I'd sure like Snow and Georger to further explore and debate the dredging issues. Could the money have been deposited by a dredge?

Was there a currency debris field? Seems that the FBI would have clearly noted that and saved samples if there was one.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 14, 2013, 4:20 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 14, 2013, 4:56 PM
Post #40838 of 52754 (18682 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

In reply to:
nichols says:
November 30, 2011 at 1:45 am (Edit)

bruce, forget about being in competition with blevins. there isnít any. heís neurotic and facing little man syndrome. iíve seen the DZ and its VERY evident. this so-called expert in everything who goes by 377 enjoys the roost. he knows nothing about db cooper. heís just in the game to cause disharmony. thatís evident too. we know dormuth. no such thing that blevins states about mr. dormuth is true. dormuth is one of us and YOU are on the right path with the witness. keep digging. the truth will be shocking and its not coming from the DZ. youíre closer than you think. gínight.

The above has a lot of the earmark of both JT and Knoss.
Since Knoss has referred to the name Nichols before in irrational postings and in things he sent to me and told me on the phone.

The mention of Dormuth threw me a little there and made me think of someone who DOES not post to this thread.

The poster is trying hard to hide his ID and one of the crew came to mind along with our beloved Georger....I think this crew member and Georger may have talked over the yrs. The mention of Dormuth - is a key to the posters ID.

Galen Cook is also a good candidate for the post, because of his mention the TRUTH will be shocking and not coming from the DZ. Cook I believe reads the thread.

The statement "you're closer than you think" sticks out and tells me it could be Galen. No caps is an earmark of JT, Knoss and Cook.

Wonder if the co-pilot and Georger talk!


Sorry if anyone took my post as being rude. I thought we were being asked to make feed backs.

The feedback I gave on the messages Bruce recieved are explorations of who the posters could have been. Believe me I have taken a lot off of a lot of people...and you will note that others did not seem to be offended. Sorry if any one thought my analysis was rude.

I have communicated with everyone I mentioned and I am using things also in my private files to make the analysis. Galen did NOT himself make posts to the thread, but I exchanged a lot emails with him and he used me as his puppet master and when he could NO longer pull my strings he used other posters.

I am the one who adopted the name Puppet Master for Galen Cook, because he does a lot of that and then he makes it seem like any discoveries are his own. He has often taken CREDIT for things he could NOT find on his own and that I directed him to. I have the E-mails and can prove I am the one who helped him find Tina - prior to that he was begging and trying to trick me into helping hims.

He found her yrs later AFTER I dropped him a vague hint which meant he had to go digging for the infomation, but I pointed him in the right direction....sent him to the divorce records.

I REFUSED to provide him with the address and phone number!
HE was not Happy about that.


RobertMBlevins

Feb 14, 2013, 6:10 PM
Post #40839 of 52754 (18670 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

377 says in part:

Quote:
'The Tena Bar money still frustrates me. I stare at my Cooper twenty, but I cant make it talk. I'd sure like Snow and Georger to further explore and debate the dredging issues. Could the money have been deposited by a dredge?...'

Never noticed this before at the Citizen Sleuths website, but apparently they don't think so: (Selected sections, edited)
Quote:
'Fact: Three bundles of 20 dollar bills were found just below the surface of the sand on Tena Bar in 1980.

Fact: The bundles were identified as D.B. Cooper's because the FBI had recorded the serial numbers and the bills matched.

Fact: Sand was dredged from the Columbia River and dumped on Tena Bar in 1974.

FBI Transcript: The dredging sands were pushed 50 yards up and down the beach.

Interpretation: If the money find was substantially more than 50 yards from the dredging sands, it could not have been dredged from the river...'

Further on:

Quote:
'The measurement between the center of the dredging sand and the money find is approximately 150 yards. In order for the money bundles to be washed up by the dredge, it would require them to be bulldozed 150 yards up the beach. This is 200% more than the stated and visual distances making it unlikely the money was buried due to dredging...'

(Italics added for effect)

Robert comments: If you assume that the Sleuths are correct in their assessment, then this leaves only three possibilities. Money fell from the sky nearby and washed up there. Money washed up there by natural means after traveling downriver for some distance. Money was buried deliberately.

Let's break those down a bit:

1) Money Falls From the Sky and Washes Up There

a) Location is twenty miles off the flight path.
b) How did three bundles land in exact same spot with nothing else found?

2) Money Washes Up by Natural Means After Traveling Downriver

a) See 'b' above.

3) Money is Buried at Location Deliberately

a) Possible, difficult to prove.
b) Why would hijacker pick that spot? Did he know dredge tailings were being dumped in the area?
c) Possibility: Hijacker made attempt to deceive the FBI into thinking he drowned during the jump.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 14, 2013, 6:18 PM)


Robert99

Feb 14, 2013, 6:23 PM
Post #40840 of 52754 (18663 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Further on:

Quote:
'The measurement between the center of the dredging sand and the money find is approximately 150 yards. In order for the money bundles to be washed up by the dredge, it would require them to be bulldozed 150 yards up the beach. This is 200% more than the stated and visual distances making it unlikely the money was buried due to dredging...'

(Italics added for effect)

If "up the beach" means upstream (which is to the south at Tena Bar), then that makes it even more unlikely that the dredging had anything to do with the money. That is, the Columbia water flow, if it ever reached the money, would have carried the money "down the beach" or downstream (to the north).

Robert99


Robert99

Feb 14, 2013, 6:49 PM
Post #40841 of 52754 (18681 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Robert comments: If you assume that the Sleuths are correct in their assessment, then this leaves only three possibilities. Money fell from the sky nearby and washed up there. Money washed up there by natural means after traveling downriver for some distance. Money was buried deliberately.

Let's break those down a bit:

1) Money Falls From the Sky and Washes Up There

a) Location is twenty miles off the flight path.
b) How did three bundles land in exact same spot with nothing else found?

2) Money Washes Up by Natural Means After Traveling Downriver

a) See 'b' above.

3) Money is Buried at Location Deliberately

a) Possible, difficult to prove.
b) Why would hijacker pick that spot? Did he know dredge tailings were being dumped in the area?
c) Possibility: Hijacker made attempt to deceive the FBI into thinking he drowned during the jump.

Blevins, Surely you can come up with better questions and answers than the above.

Your questions 1 and 2 are basically the same. You assume that Cooper landed in water and that water then carried some of the money to Tena Bar. Despite all the rivers and lakes around the Portland/Vancouver area, the chances are much greater that Cooper would have landed on dry land than in water.

And then what gives you the idea that Tena Bar is 20 miles off the flight path? I have just measured the distance from Tena Bar to the centerline of V-23 and it is less than 8 statute miles. And that includes the unproven assumption that the airliner was on the centerline of V-23 in the first place.

How did the three bundles land in the exact same spot with nothing else found? Gravity, water, and wind are the only forces that could act on them after the jump. Maybe other bundles went on down stream or didn't make it out of the money bag.

Your question 3 has been talked to death on this thread and I believe the general consensus of opinion is that the last thing a crook is going to do is throw his loot away unless the cops are about 10 feet behind him and gaining fast.

Robert99


RobertMBlevins

Feb 14, 2013, 8:28 PM
Post #40842 of 52754 (18647 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

Well...the money didn't sprout legs and just walk over to Tena Bar...picking up a shovel along the way. This money arrived at the spot somehow.

I think 'falling from the sky' is out because of the proximity of the three bundles with nothing else found. The Sleuths believe it wasn't dredged. It's also their opinion that 305 was on course when Cooper jumped. So what does that leave us with?

Floating to the spot would require a jump south of Tena Bar, or near Portland. I've heard some things about a connecting point between Vancouver Lake and the river, etc. Not sure if this is really feasible. This again begs the question of exactly how three bundles of the cash would stay together for such a trip. I know we've been down this road before, but it still remains obvious to me:

The chances that you might find cash equal to approximately ONE bundle or less, or a great deal of the money, is much more likely than finding three together. One bundle or less might suggest the money was scattered somehow. MOST of the money in one location might suggest the money went into the river, or the skyjacker pancaked/drowned nearby. Probably both. In that case, they should have dug up the entire beach and did a thorough search of the river bottom for a mile in both directions.

FBI says the dredging operation dumped the tailings in one major spot and then it was spread about 50 yards max in each direction. Money was discovered 200 yards off this centerline. This is why CS doesn't think it was a dredge.

I understand your idea of not wanting to dispose of any of the money on general principles. But then...neither of us was Cooper and neither of us was the most hunted man in the USA. I've suggested previously that there could be a good motive for burying the money in a spot where known activity moving sand around was done. And WHEN it might have been done.

Motive: To place the money in a spot where it most likely would be found, to make the FBI think you were dead. Perhaps after the hijacker found out the Statute of Limitations had been bypassed. It's the only possible motive I can think of. This would not be easy for the hijacker, either. You can't just toss it on the ground. You can't hide it so well that no one will find it. You have to make it look as if it WASN'T a plant. Lot of requirements. Would take a lot of thought. Something that came to me today was a statement I paid little attention to when she said it, but Margie Geestman said in one of her interviews that Bernie was in the sand and gravel biz for a while, and this was post-hijacking. I get the idea this was somewhere south of Olympia, not near Bonney Lake. I know that within a few years after the hijacking they had finished the house in Oakville and moved there. I know that's a small point, and probably means nothing, but I just remembered it today. At the time, I didn't think anything of it because when I was doing those interviews I didn't know about the dredging thing, etc. Just the basics on Tena Bar, i.e. money was found there in 1980. Like I said, it probably means nothing, but I thought I should mention it. It's always been tough to pin down Bernie's work history. We know he worked with Foss Tugs 1968 through 1975, but the logs end there. After that, I don't know for sure. It's a guess, but I would say that's when they moved to Oakville. Some years later, they ended up in Twisp, of all places. That's about as out of the way as you can get.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you think the hijacker may have jumped close to Tena Bar. But you have to disprove the official reports on the flight path to make that work...so your job is cut out for you to do this, otherwise my theory works as well as yours. And it's tricky explaining why three bundles were discovered together without anything else.

First Law of the Tena Bar Money: *Finding of money will create more questions than it actually answers* Smile


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 14, 2013, 8:42 PM)


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 8:35 PM
Post #40843 of 52754 (18641 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
377 says in part:

Quote:
'The Tena Bar money still frustrates me. I stare at my Cooper twenty, but I cant make it talk. I'd sure like Snow and Georger to further explore and debate the dredging issues. Could the money have been deposited by a dredge?...'

Never noticed this before at the Citizen Sleuths website, but apparently they don't think so: (Selected sections, edited)
Quote:
'Fact: Three bundles of 20 dollar bills were found just below the surface of the sand on Tena Bar in 1980.

Fact: The bundles were identified as D.B. Cooper's because the FBI had recorded the serial numbers and the bills matched.

Fact: Sand was dredged from the Columbia River and dumped on Tena Bar in 1974.

FBI Transcript: The dredging sands were pushed 50 yards up and down the beach.

Interpretation: If the money find was substantially more than 50 yards from the dredging sands, it could not have been dredged from the river...'

Further on:

Quote:
'The measurement between the center of the dredging sand and the money find is approximately 150 yards. In order for the money bundles to be washed up by the dredge, it would require them to be bulldozed 150 yards up the beach. This is 200% more than the stated and visual distances making it unlikely the money was buried due to dredging...'

(Italics added for effect)
Gee whilakers ! Which "center of the dredging sand"
are he and Blevins talking about? Looks like TWO
dredging piles to me. Is he measuring his "center of
the dredging sand" from between the two piles or one
pile and which pile? Isn't it the job of scientists to be
clear and concise? Or are we supposed to 'mindmeld'
to know what is being said, or not being said?

Blevins seems to know. I wish he would explain it to
me!

And how can Blevins have answers to questions he
doesn't even know exist!?

And how come Blevin's didn't mention 'transvestites'
in his book ?

These are important questions, when trying to navigate the Cooper Carnival cruise.


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 14, 2013, 10:51 PM)
Attachments: @ tena_bar_date montage_w_GE cp.JPG (39.2 KB)


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 8:43 PM
Post #40844 of 52754 (18633 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

 

(Italics added for effect)

Robert comments: If you assume that the Sleuths are correct in their assessment, then this leaves only three possibilities. Money fell from the sky nearby and washed up there. Money washed up there by natural means after traveling downriver for some distance. Money was buried deliberately.

Let's break those down a bit:

1) Money Falls From the Sky and Washes Up There

a) Location is twenty miles off the flight path.
b) How did three bundles land in exact same spot with nothing else found?

2) Money Washes Up by Natural Means After Traveling Downriver

a) See 'b' above.

3) Money is Buried at Location Deliberately

a) Possible, difficult to prove.
b) Why would hijacker pick that spot? Did he know dredge tailings were being dumped in the area?
c) Possibility: Hijacker made attempt to deceive the FBI into thinking he drowned during the jump.
4) Blevins doesnt have the faintest idea what he's talking about, but will bloviate into the hallway, anyway!

Do we have bloviation bags available?


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 8:44 PM
Post #40845 of 52754 (18630 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well...the money didn't sprout legs and just walk over to Tena Bar...picking up a shovel along the way. This money arrived at the spot somehow.

Brilliant deduction !

Is your upstream downstream? Or your upstream
downstream? What do your up and down mean with
respect to the flow of stream by Tina Bar? Do you
know up from down? Left from right? Dont have a
stroke worrying about it. My advice is: just keep
writing books.

Blevins, you have compulsively been trying to master
these matters for almost three years. Maybe it's time
for you to give up and just accept there are some
things in life not worth knowing about, that you can't
do! Like sleuthing for DB Cooper and doing calculus!

You might look for employment at Carnival Cruise
Lines, since you are already a house cleaner and own
a house cleaning business with Gayla, by profession!
Hydraulics, forensics, and toilet bowl cleaning are not
the same thing, in case you haven't discovered. There
is no disgrace in that! The disgrace is in refusing to
know the difference.
Crazy


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 14, 2013, 9:18 PM)


Robert99

Feb 14, 2013, 9:19 PM
Post #40846 of 52754 (18593 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've read enough of your posts to know that you think the hijacker may have jumped close to Tena Bar. But you have to disprove the official reports on the flight path to make that work...so your job is cut out for you to do this, otherwise my theory works as well as yours. And it's tricky explaining why three bundles were discovered together without anything else.

First Law of the Tena Bar Money: *Finding of money will create more questions than it actually answers* Smile

If you have read some of my previous posts, did you happen to notice any posts about the problems with the times and positions on the "official report" of the flight path? If you would look at the FBI map of the flight path you would see that there is a problem with an airliner, flying at a constant speed of about 3 nautical miles per minute, covering 3 nautical miles in one minute and then 6 nautical miles the next minute, then etc., etc..

That is not the way things work, and the above doesn't require any knowledge of rocket science to see the errors. So how does your "theory" explain the above problems?

You don't need to "explain" why three bundles were together with their rubber banks in relatively good shape. That is a simple fact and must be accepted as such. And the fact is that the condition of the money indicates that it didn't travel any lengthy distance in the river or had been exposed to water for a lengthy period of time. Maybe you have a theory as to how the money got so far above the normal river water line?

Since the money that was found was under a few inches of sand, perhaps digging up more sand in the right places would have revealed more money.

Also, the Flushing Channel (which is located south of Caterpillar Island) between the Columbia River and Vancouver Lake was completed in the very late 1970s and has some small gates to feed water into Vancouver Lake when the River is at a rather high level. The main downstream exit from Vancouver Lake is about 15 miles or so downstream from the Lake where Lake River joins the Columbia. There is one very small exit located about 20 feet or so from the driveway into the diary farm. Otherwise, just remember that the NW Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and I assume you know the purpose of a levee.

Actually, finding the money answers MORE questions than it asks. All you have to do is stick to facts and not try to fit things into a preconcieved theory.

Robert99


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 9:49 PM
Post #40847 of 52754 (18581 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Actually, finding the money answers MORE questions than it asks. All you have to do is stick to facts and not try to fit things into a preconcieved theory.

Robert99
This is now almost three years old! Blevins knew as
much then, as he does now. This is not going to
improve. Blevins is not part of the solution, but part of
the problem and that is probably why he is here at
Dropzone, to begin with. Sooner or later he will have
to move to a new village where is not known and has
fresh listeners... Gayla is probably advising Robert of
that, right now! No Sale! She is probably telling
Blevins: "You are too good for Dropzone" _

Laugh


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 14, 2013, 9:56 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 14, 2013, 10:32 PM
Post #40848 of 52754 (18564 views)
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Re: [georger] Money on TENA's bar [In reply to] Can't Post

When is anyone ever going to listen to me.

The last wk of Sept 1979 Duane took me to 3 sites on the river and one of them was TENA's bar.
Not one sole has ever addressed a small shed under the trees past the fence. Perhaps I IMAGINED ALL of THIS but I know me and I know I did NOT imagine what DUANE did. He instructed me to stay in the car, but I got out under the trees to stretch for just a moment.

The way the crew approached Tena's bar threw me off as it was the OPPOSITE way Duane approached it. It was after I left Tena's Bar and we were headed back to Vancouver that I commented to Mr. H about the building and the road there seeming to be familiar, but I have NEVER BEEN heard and IF anyone heard me they IGNORED me. After WHAT I now know to be Tena's bar we made ONE last stop at the Red Lion and that is where DUANE threw the paper bag in the water. Because of the places he took me I believe he put money in 4 different place.

I have told this before, but I will NEVER be heard. WHY the F do you guys think he did NOT want me to read the newspaper in Feb when it came out the money had been found. He knew HE had made that ONE statement about Cooper while we where in the LaCames area. Duane figured I would figure it OUT.

THEN he makes sure before he leaves the area NOT to let me see the special on TV. He did something he had only done that ONE time in our marriage - HE made arrangements for US to go out WITH ANOTHER couple and I apologized to the woman who I had NEVER MET that I was sorry I was poor company.

I was not used to going OUT in the middle of the WEEK and there was a special on TV I wanted to see.

DUANE could NOT let me see that.
He knew I put 2 and 2 together.
WHY do you guys think he did NOT let me know his address or location when he left until it was time for my daughters graduation. Even then I did not have an address for him.

The media was eating it up just like he expected them to and did NOT suspect Cooper was still alive. Problem was that he probably spent some of the money in late 1979 right there in the Ft. Collins area - and he did NOT know until the money was found that they had the serial numbers.

He did NOT let me read that newspaper and he took it with him. He made sure I was busy and not exposed until he was safely away from the area.

He did take me over to Omaha before he left and he went into a bank. He probably got a safe deposit box and paid it forward for 10 yrs with his John Collins ID.

In 1990 his Collins ID had expired and he had to go to great extents to acquire one which he did - A real drivers licens with JOHN C. Collins and then he flew out of Tallahassee while he and Jim were on a suppposed 4 day market there.
Jiw was left with the set up from Thursday until Sat. During this time there was a plane ticket (one way purchased on my credit card to Omaha). U just remembered it started with an O.

CARR refused to check this out and the prior agent refused to check this out. NO one CARES but me who COOPER really was - you guys only want the fantasy.

SEE what I mean - there was NOTHING complicated about this case other than the investigators making it complicated. IF they had checked out the Deposit box in 1996 when I contacted them, they would have found this. Carr said it took a government order of some kind to check this and he wasn't going to do it.

ALL these YRS I handed this to the FBI on a silver plate, but NO one heard me.

I was never sure if it was Omaha, NB or something Oklahoma. All I remember is the O. BUT looking at the map and without going back to the place and my memory of that day for him to conduct some business in a state he was NOT licensed in - and he was only there just a few minutes. PUT your heads on and think about this. JO is the ONLY PERSON to put the money on TENA's bar and IF the FBI had listened to me in 1996 - they would have found the safe deposit box under the name of JOHN COLLINS had been closed in the early part of 1990.

HOW in the hell does anyone explain Duane's actions early in 1980.THERE is only one answer - Duane WEBER was JOHN COLLINS and he was DAN COOPER. John COLLINS maintained a safe deposit box which was opened in 1980 and closed in 1990. Then when he returns to Pensacola he open a safe deposit box under his name I had NO knowledge of until after he died.

THE only damn thing in that box was that magazine with the jumper and a barrel between his legs. The magazine he put in the box was NOT the same magazine I had seen in his office at the shop. The one in the safe deposit box was dated 1994 - but, it was a message I did NOT understand.

I did NOT know if anyone else had access to that box and maybe DUANE had taken the stuff out and put it in the VAN and why he was so DAMN worried about the VAN while he was in the HOSP. My car was acting funny and I drove the VAN.

He kept wanting to go for a ride - but he never made it. DAMN someon LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 14, 2013, 10:43 PM)


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 10:54 PM
Post #40849 of 52754 (18557 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Money on TENA's bar [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When is anyone ever going to listen to me.

He kept wanting to go for a ride - but he never made it. DAMN someon LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!

377 is listening listening listening!

He should respond shortly shortly shortly!

It just takes time to get everyone off the boat boat boat!


RobertMBlevins

Feb 14, 2013, 11:25 PM
Post #40850 of 52754 (18548 views)
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Re: [georger] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well...the money didn't sprout legs and just walk over to Tena Bar...picking up a shovel along the way. This money arrived at the spot somehow.

Brilliant deduction !

Is your upstream downstream? Or your upstream
downstream? What do your up and down mean with
respect to the flow of stream by Tina Bar? Do you
know up from down? Left from right? Dont have a
stroke worrying about it. My advice is: just keep
writing books.

Blevins, you have compulsively been trying to master
these matters for almost three years. Maybe it's time
for you to give up and just accept there are some
things in life not worth knowing about, that you can't
do! Like sleuthing for DB Cooper and doing calculus!

You might look for employment at Carnival Cruise
Lines, since you are already a house cleaner and own
a house cleaning business with Gayla, by profession!
Hydraulics, forensics, and toilet bowl cleaning are not
the same thing, in case you haven't discovered. There
is no disgrace in that! The disgrace is in refusing to
know the difference.
Crazy

I have figured out one thing. You are part of the problem around here lately, not me.

Just so you'll know, Mr I Know Everything About Blevins...I do have some higher education...and before I stopped being a sheeple working for set wages and helped form two successful businesses...this is what I did:

I was in charge of a warehouse that served a major carpet company in the Seattle area. I organized installations, did all the ordering, and made sure all seven stores (with all their installers) got what they needed each day. On one occasion, I adjusted our purchasing to save the company a quarter of a million dollars a year. On padding alone. There were other adjustments.

I gave all that up in 1998 and never looked back.

Every time you have no answer for me, or nothing good to say, you come to me with this housecleaning biz. After fifteen years and many happy customers (as well as employees), you knoweth not what you speaketh. I make more money than I ever have previously, work maybe 20-25 hours a week, no weekends, take vacations when I wish (I should do this more), and I don't blow my money on new cars or fancy clothes. While you are eating cat food in your retirement, I will be kicking back down in Costa Mesa on the beach with a lime slice and a bottle of Dos Equis.

Here's advice for ya: Anytime you can break away from being a work-for-wages sheeple and actually make it on your own...DO it.

You don't explore the Cooper case much. Mostly you try to discredit without using points from the case. This is in opposition to what I did with Marla, and occasionally Galen Cook. Big difference. You go to personalities. You think you know everything about someone based on their present employment. LOL.

You also think everyone besides yourself is stupid. I've noticed that...


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 14, 2013, 11:29 PM)


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