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RobertMBlevins

Feb 14, 2013, 8:28 PM
Post #40801 of 55291 (33256 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

Well...the money didn't sprout legs and just walk over to Tena Bar...picking up a shovel along the way. This money arrived at the spot somehow.

I think 'falling from the sky' is out because of the proximity of the three bundles with nothing else found. The Sleuths believe it wasn't dredged. It's also their opinion that 305 was on course when Cooper jumped. So what does that leave us with?

Floating to the spot would require a jump south of Tena Bar, or near Portland. I've heard some things about a connecting point between Vancouver Lake and the river, etc. Not sure if this is really feasible. This again begs the question of exactly how three bundles of the cash would stay together for such a trip. I know we've been down this road before, but it still remains obvious to me:

The chances that you might find cash equal to approximately ONE bundle or less, or a great deal of the money, is much more likely than finding three together. One bundle or less might suggest the money was scattered somehow. MOST of the money in one location might suggest the money went into the river, or the skyjacker pancaked/drowned nearby. Probably both. In that case, they should have dug up the entire beach and did a thorough search of the river bottom for a mile in both directions.

FBI says the dredging operation dumped the tailings in one major spot and then it was spread about 50 yards max in each direction. Money was discovered 200 yards off this centerline. This is why CS doesn't think it was a dredge.

I understand your idea of not wanting to dispose of any of the money on general principles. But then...neither of us was Cooper and neither of us was the most hunted man in the USA. I've suggested previously that there could be a good motive for burying the money in a spot where known activity moving sand around was done. And WHEN it might have been done.

Motive: To place the money in a spot where it most likely would be found, to make the FBI think you were dead. Perhaps after the hijacker found out the Statute of Limitations had been bypassed. It's the only possible motive I can think of. This would not be easy for the hijacker, either. You can't just toss it on the ground. You can't hide it so well that no one will find it. You have to make it look as if it WASN'T a plant. Lot of requirements. Would take a lot of thought. Something that came to me today was a statement I paid little attention to when she said it, but Margie Geestman said in one of her interviews that Bernie was in the sand and gravel biz for a while, and this was post-hijacking. I get the idea this was somewhere south of Olympia, not near Bonney Lake. I know that within a few years after the hijacking they had finished the house in Oakville and moved there. I know that's a small point, and probably means nothing, but I just remembered it today. At the time, I didn't think anything of it because when I was doing those interviews I didn't know about the dredging thing, etc. Just the basics on Tena Bar, i.e. money was found there in 1980. Like I said, it probably means nothing, but I thought I should mention it. It's always been tough to pin down Bernie's work history. We know he worked with Foss Tugs 1968 through 1975, but the logs end there. After that, I don't know for sure. It's a guess, but I would say that's when they moved to Oakville. Some years later, they ended up in Twisp, of all places. That's about as out of the way as you can get.

I've read enough of your posts to know that you think the hijacker may have jumped close to Tena Bar. But you have to disprove the official reports on the flight path to make that work...so your job is cut out for you to do this, otherwise my theory works as well as yours. And it's tricky explaining why three bundles were discovered together without anything else.

First Law of the Tena Bar Money: *Finding of money will create more questions than it actually answers* Smile


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 14, 2013, 8:42 PM)


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 8:35 PM
Post #40802 of 55291 (33250 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
377 says in part:

Quote:
'The Tena Bar money still frustrates me. I stare at my Cooper twenty, but I cant make it talk. I'd sure like Snow and Georger to further explore and debate the dredging issues. Could the money have been deposited by a dredge?...'

Never noticed this before at the Citizen Sleuths website, but apparently they don't think so: (Selected sections, edited)
Quote:
'Fact: Three bundles of 20 dollar bills were found just below the surface of the sand on Tena Bar in 1980.

Fact: The bundles were identified as D.B. Cooper's because the FBI had recorded the serial numbers and the bills matched.

Fact: Sand was dredged from the Columbia River and dumped on Tena Bar in 1974.

FBI Transcript: The dredging sands were pushed 50 yards up and down the beach.

Interpretation: If the money find was substantially more than 50 yards from the dredging sands, it could not have been dredged from the river...'

Further on:

Quote:
'The measurement between the center of the dredging sand and the money find is approximately 150 yards. In order for the money bundles to be washed up by the dredge, it would require them to be bulldozed 150 yards up the beach. This is 200% more than the stated and visual distances making it unlikely the money was buried due to dredging...'

(Italics added for effect)
Gee whilakers ! Which "center of the dredging sand"
are he and Blevins talking about? Looks like TWO
dredging piles to me. Is he measuring his "center of
the dredging sand" from between the two piles or one
pile and which pile? Isn't it the job of scientists to be
clear and concise? Or are we supposed to 'mindmeld'
to know what is being said, or not being said?

Blevins seems to know. I wish he would explain it to
me!

And how can Blevins have answers to questions he
doesn't even know exist!?

And how come Blevin's didn't mention 'transvestites'
in his book ?

These are important questions, when trying to navigate the Cooper Carnival cruise.


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 14, 2013, 10:51 PM)
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georger

Feb 14, 2013, 8:43 PM
Post #40803 of 55291 (33242 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

 

(Italics added for effect)

Robert comments: If you assume that the Sleuths are correct in their assessment, then this leaves only three possibilities. Money fell from the sky nearby and washed up there. Money washed up there by natural means after traveling downriver for some distance. Money was buried deliberately.

Let's break those down a bit:

1) Money Falls From the Sky and Washes Up There

a) Location is twenty miles off the flight path.
b) How did three bundles land in exact same spot with nothing else found?

2) Money Washes Up by Natural Means After Traveling Downriver

a) See 'b' above.

3) Money is Buried at Location Deliberately

a) Possible, difficult to prove.
b) Why would hijacker pick that spot? Did he know dredge tailings were being dumped in the area?
c) Possibility: Hijacker made attempt to deceive the FBI into thinking he drowned during the jump.
4) Blevins doesnt have the faintest idea what he's talking about, but will bloviate into the hallway, anyway!

Do we have bloviation bags available?


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 8:44 PM
Post #40804 of 55291 (33239 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well...the money didn't sprout legs and just walk over to Tena Bar...picking up a shovel along the way. This money arrived at the spot somehow.

Brilliant deduction !

Is your upstream downstream? Or your upstream
downstream? What do your up and down mean with
respect to the flow of stream by Tina Bar? Do you
know up from down? Left from right? Dont have a
stroke worrying about it. My advice is: just keep
writing books.

Blevins, you have compulsively been trying to master
these matters for almost three years. Maybe it's time
for you to give up and just accept there are some
things in life not worth knowing about, that you can't
do! Like sleuthing for DB Cooper and doing calculus!

You might look for employment at Carnival Cruise
Lines, since you are already a house cleaner and own
a house cleaning business with Gayla, by profession!
Hydraulics, forensics, and toilet bowl cleaning are not
the same thing, in case you haven't discovered. There
is no disgrace in that! The disgrace is in refusing to
know the difference.
Crazy


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 14, 2013, 9:18 PM)


Robert99

Feb 14, 2013, 9:19 PM
Post #40805 of 55291 (33202 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've read enough of your posts to know that you think the hijacker may have jumped close to Tena Bar. But you have to disprove the official reports on the flight path to make that work...so your job is cut out for you to do this, otherwise my theory works as well as yours. And it's tricky explaining why three bundles were discovered together without anything else.

First Law of the Tena Bar Money: *Finding of money will create more questions than it actually answers* Smile

If you have read some of my previous posts, did you happen to notice any posts about the problems with the times and positions on the "official report" of the flight path? If you would look at the FBI map of the flight path you would see that there is a problem with an airliner, flying at a constant speed of about 3 nautical miles per minute, covering 3 nautical miles in one minute and then 6 nautical miles the next minute, then etc., etc..

That is not the way things work, and the above doesn't require any knowledge of rocket science to see the errors. So how does your "theory" explain the above problems?

You don't need to "explain" why three bundles were together with their rubber banks in relatively good shape. That is a simple fact and must be accepted as such. And the fact is that the condition of the money indicates that it didn't travel any lengthy distance in the river or had been exposed to water for a lengthy period of time. Maybe you have a theory as to how the money got so far above the normal river water line?

Since the money that was found was under a few inches of sand, perhaps digging up more sand in the right places would have revealed more money.

Also, the Flushing Channel (which is located south of Caterpillar Island) between the Columbia River and Vancouver Lake was completed in the very late 1970s and has some small gates to feed water into Vancouver Lake when the River is at a rather high level. The main downstream exit from Vancouver Lake is about 15 miles or so downstream from the Lake where Lake River joins the Columbia. There is one very small exit located about 20 feet or so from the driveway into the diary farm. Otherwise, just remember that the NW Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and I assume you know the purpose of a levee.

Actually, finding the money answers MORE questions than it asks. All you have to do is stick to facts and not try to fit things into a preconcieved theory.

Robert99


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 9:49 PM
Post #40806 of 55291 (33190 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Actually, finding the money answers MORE questions than it asks. All you have to do is stick to facts and not try to fit things into a preconcieved theory.

Robert99
This is now almost three years old! Blevins knew as
much then, as he does now. This is not going to
improve. Blevins is not part of the solution, but part of
the problem and that is probably why he is here at
Dropzone, to begin with. Sooner or later he will have
to move to a new village where is not known and has
fresh listeners... Gayla is probably advising Robert of
that, right now! No Sale! She is probably telling
Blevins: "You are too good for Dropzone" _

Laugh


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 14, 2013, 9:56 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 14, 2013, 10:32 PM
Post #40807 of 55291 (33173 views)
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Re: [georger] Money on TENA's bar [In reply to] Can't Post

When is anyone ever going to listen to me.

The last wk of Sept 1979 Duane took me to 3 sites on the river and one of them was TENA's bar.
Not one sole has ever addressed a small shed under the trees past the fence. Perhaps I IMAGINED ALL of THIS but I know me and I know I did NOT imagine what DUANE did. He instructed me to stay in the car, but I got out under the trees to stretch for just a moment.

The way the crew approached Tena's bar threw me off as it was the OPPOSITE way Duane approached it. It was after I left Tena's Bar and we were headed back to Vancouver that I commented to Mr. H about the building and the road there seeming to be familiar, but I have NEVER BEEN heard and IF anyone heard me they IGNORED me. After WHAT I now know to be Tena's bar we made ONE last stop at the Red Lion and that is where DUANE threw the paper bag in the water. Because of the places he took me I believe he put money in 4 different place.

I have told this before, but I will NEVER be heard. WHY the F do you guys think he did NOT want me to read the newspaper in Feb when it came out the money had been found. He knew HE had made that ONE statement about Cooper while we where in the LaCames area. Duane figured I would figure it OUT.

THEN he makes sure before he leaves the area NOT to let me see the special on TV. He did something he had only done that ONE time in our marriage - HE made arrangements for US to go out WITH ANOTHER couple and I apologized to the woman who I had NEVER MET that I was sorry I was poor company.

I was not used to going OUT in the middle of the WEEK and there was a special on TV I wanted to see.

DUANE could NOT let me see that.
He knew I put 2 and 2 together.
WHY do you guys think he did NOT let me know his address or location when he left until it was time for my daughters graduation. Even then I did not have an address for him.

The media was eating it up just like he expected them to and did NOT suspect Cooper was still alive. Problem was that he probably spent some of the money in late 1979 right there in the Ft. Collins area - and he did NOT know until the money was found that they had the serial numbers.

He did NOT let me read that newspaper and he took it with him. He made sure I was busy and not exposed until he was safely away from the area.

He did take me over to Omaha before he left and he went into a bank. He probably got a safe deposit box and paid it forward for 10 yrs with his John Collins ID.

In 1990 his Collins ID had expired and he had to go to great extents to acquire one which he did - A real drivers licens with JOHN C. Collins and then he flew out of Tallahassee while he and Jim were on a suppposed 4 day market there.
Jiw was left with the set up from Thursday until Sat. During this time there was a plane ticket (one way purchased on my credit card to Omaha). U just remembered it started with an O.

CARR refused to check this out and the prior agent refused to check this out. NO one CARES but me who COOPER really was - you guys only want the fantasy.

SEE what I mean - there was NOTHING complicated about this case other than the investigators making it complicated. IF they had checked out the Deposit box in 1996 when I contacted them, they would have found this. Carr said it took a government order of some kind to check this and he wasn't going to do it.

ALL these YRS I handed this to the FBI on a silver plate, but NO one heard me.

I was never sure if it was Omaha, NB or something Oklahoma. All I remember is the O. BUT looking at the map and without going back to the place and my memory of that day for him to conduct some business in a state he was NOT licensed in - and he was only there just a few minutes. PUT your heads on and think about this. JO is the ONLY PERSON to put the money on TENA's bar and IF the FBI had listened to me in 1996 - they would have found the safe deposit box under the name of JOHN COLLINS had been closed in the early part of 1990.

HOW in the hell does anyone explain Duane's actions early in 1980.THERE is only one answer - Duane WEBER was JOHN COLLINS and he was DAN COOPER. John COLLINS maintained a safe deposit box which was opened in 1980 and closed in 1990. Then when he returns to Pensacola he open a safe deposit box under his name I had NO knowledge of until after he died.

THE only damn thing in that box was that magazine with the jumper and a barrel between his legs. The magazine he put in the box was NOT the same magazine I had seen in his office at the shop. The one in the safe deposit box was dated 1994 - but, it was a message I did NOT understand.

I did NOT know if anyone else had access to that box and maybe DUANE had taken the stuff out and put it in the VAN and why he was so DAMN worried about the VAN while he was in the HOSP. My car was acting funny and I drove the VAN.

He kept wanting to go for a ride - but he never made it. DAMN someon LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 14, 2013, 10:43 PM)


georger

Feb 14, 2013, 10:54 PM
Post #40808 of 55291 (33166 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Money on TENA's bar [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When is anyone ever going to listen to me.

He kept wanting to go for a ride - but he never made it. DAMN someon LISTEN! LISTEN! LISTEN!

377 is listening listening listening!

He should respond shortly shortly shortly!

It just takes time to get everyone off the boat boat boat!


RobertMBlevins

Feb 14, 2013, 11:25 PM
Post #40809 of 55291 (33157 views)
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Re: [georger] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well...the money didn't sprout legs and just walk over to Tena Bar...picking up a shovel along the way. This money arrived at the spot somehow.

Brilliant deduction !

Is your upstream downstream? Or your upstream
downstream? What do your up and down mean with
respect to the flow of stream by Tina Bar? Do you
know up from down? Left from right? Dont have a
stroke worrying about it. My advice is: just keep
writing books.

Blevins, you have compulsively been trying to master
these matters for almost three years. Maybe it's time
for you to give up and just accept there are some
things in life not worth knowing about, that you can't
do! Like sleuthing for DB Cooper and doing calculus!

You might look for employment at Carnival Cruise
Lines, since you are already a house cleaner and own
a house cleaning business with Gayla, by profession!
Hydraulics, forensics, and toilet bowl cleaning are not
the same thing, in case you haven't discovered. There
is no disgrace in that! The disgrace is in refusing to
know the difference.
Crazy

I have figured out one thing. You are part of the problem around here lately, not me.

Just so you'll know, Mr I Know Everything About Blevins...I do have some higher education...and before I stopped being a sheeple working for set wages and helped form two successful businesses...this is what I did:

I was in charge of a warehouse that served a major carpet company in the Seattle area. I organized installations, did all the ordering, and made sure all seven stores (with all their installers) got what they needed each day. On one occasion, I adjusted our purchasing to save the company a quarter of a million dollars a year. On padding alone. There were other adjustments.

I gave all that up in 1998 and never looked back.

Every time you have no answer for me, or nothing good to say, you come to me with this housecleaning biz. After fifteen years and many happy customers (as well as employees), you knoweth not what you speaketh. I make more money than I ever have previously, work maybe 20-25 hours a week, no weekends, take vacations when I wish (I should do this more), and I don't blow my money on new cars or fancy clothes. While you are eating cat food in your retirement, I will be kicking back down in Costa Mesa on the beach with a lime slice and a bottle of Dos Equis.

Here's advice for ya: Anytime you can break away from being a work-for-wages sheeple and actually make it on your own...DO it.

You don't explore the Cooper case much. Mostly you try to discredit without using points from the case. This is in opposition to what I did with Marla, and occasionally Galen Cook. Big difference. You go to personalities. You think you know everything about someone based on their present employment. LOL.

You also think everyone besides yourself is stupid. I've noticed that...


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 14, 2013, 11:29 PM)


georger

Feb 15, 2013, 12:29 AM
Post #40810 of 55291 (33864 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I have figured out one thing. You are part of the problem around here lately, not me.


Here's advice for ya: Anytime you can break away from being a work-for-wages sheeple and actually make it on your own...DO it.

You don't explore the Cooper case much. Mostly you try to discredit without using points from the case. This is in opposition to what I did with Marla, and occasionally Galen Cook. Big difference. You go to personalities. You think you know everything about someone based on their present employment. LOL.

You also think everyone besides yourself is stupid. I've noticed that...
Good God! All of this over a technical question: what does Tom Kaye mean when he says: "center of the dredging sand". Its a basic question which goes to the heart of what Kaye is saying, your analysis of Kaye, etc etc.

And now we have (yours above): You are part of the
problem around here lately, not me. Here's advice for
ya: Anytime you can break away from being a
work-for-wages sheeple and actually make it on your
own...DO it. You don't explore the Cooper case
much. Mostly you try to discredit without using points
from the. You go to personalities. You think you
know everything ....

work-for-wages sheeple ?

Mr. Blevins. Can you answer the Tom Kaye question at hand? Yes or No?

What is all your garbage about? Having another bad
day?

I'll ask Jo Weber. Maybe she has more technical knowledge and expertise than you do!

work-for-wages sheeple ?


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 15, 2013, 2:20 AM)


georger

Feb 15, 2013, 12:46 AM
Post #40811 of 55291 (33848 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Agent Deuces Speak [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Further on:

Quote:
'The measurement between the center of the dredging sand and the money find is approximately 150 yards.

Blevins quotes Tom: ""center of the dredging sand"

Do you know for a fact what "center of the dredging sand" Kaye is referring to?
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georger

Feb 15, 2013, 12:48 AM
Post #40812 of 55291 (33846 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Just curious [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not saying this isn't true,

Blevins quotes Tom saying: "center of the dredging sand"

Do you know for a fact what "center" Tom is referring to?


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 15, 2013, 12:53 AM)
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georger

Feb 15, 2013, 12:50 AM
Post #40813 of 55291 (33843 views)
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Re: [377] Marla versus Gray ! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

...Ricardo López-Ruiz: Economic Models with Chaotic Money Exchange. ICCS (1) 2009: 43-52
$200K for nothing is a pretty chaotic money exhange.

377
Blevins quote Tom saying: "center of the dredging
sand"

Do you know for a fact what "center" Tom is referring
to?

Because, without knowing what "center" Tom is
referring to, everything else Tom says is
meaningless.


(This post was edited by georger on Feb 15, 2013, 12:51 AM)
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RobertMBlevins

Feb 15, 2013, 2:15 AM
Post #40814 of 55291 (33820 views)
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WTF is THIS? [In reply to] Can't Post

In the interest of non-stupidity, I asked this totally non-Cooper question of the brain boys at JPL:

The picture speaks for itself. They blew me off at NASA when I suggested they take a closer look.

No...why would you want to do that? Crazy

They respond with 'similar examples' using pics taken on Earth, all of which IMHO are extremely lame.

Lame.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 15, 2013, 2:22 AM)
Attachments: MSLwhatisthis.jpg (169 KB)


377  (F 666)

Feb 15, 2013, 7:34 AM
Post #40815 of 55291 (33783 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] WTF is THIS? [In reply to] Can't Post

Robert,

That trifurcated image on Mars looks like a C9 canopy wrapped in chain folded suspension lines, smoke jumper style.

Sheesh, no wonder there's been a coverup by the FBI, CIA and now even JPL-NASA. The nuke waste dump at Hanford spins off space-time tornados. Now the Tena Bar money starts making sense.

Rich and single on Mars. What a bummer.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 15, 2013, 7:37 AM)


georger

Feb 15, 2013, 9:52 AM
Post #40816 of 55291 (33764 views)
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Re: [377] WTF is THIS? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Robert,

That trifurcated image on Mars looks like a C9 canopy wrapped in chain folded suspension lines, smoke jumper style.

Sheesh, no wonder there's been a coverup by the FBI, CIA and now even JPL-NASA. The nuke waste dump at Hanford spins off space-time tornados. Now the Tena Bar money starts making sense.

Rich and single on Mars. What a bummer.

377

Do you know for a fact what "center" Tom is referring
to?

is this still a Cooper thread?
Attachments: @ tena_bar_date montage_w_GE cp.JPG (39.2 KB)


RobertMBlevins

Feb 15, 2013, 2:31 PM
Post #40817 of 55291 (33733 views)
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Re: [georger] WTF is THIS? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Robert,

That trifurcated image on Mars looks like a C9 canopy wrapped in chain folded suspension lines, smoke jumper style.

Sheesh, no wonder there's been a coverup by the FBI, CIA and now even JPL-NASA. The nuke waste dump at Hanford spins off space-time tornados. Now the Tena Bar money starts making sense.

Rich and single on Mars. What a bummer.

377

Do you know for a fact what "center" Tom is referring
to?

is this still a Cooper thread?

He's got a picture at their website showing the closest dump site to the money, and then the location of the money. Apparently, testimony to the FBI said that the brothers pushed the sand no more than fifty yards in either direction from the center of that pile...and that the money was found 200 yards from that center. Based on that, he's saying it's unlikely the money was dredged to that location.

Yeah, this is still Cooper. The Mars thing was kind of a joke. The real discussion on it is over at Speakers Corner.

Note: Anyone figured out how to do the inline images for posts yet? I got a message from webmaster Sangiro saying he had enabled it for Skydiving History and Trivia now. Tried posting a direct image but couldn't get it to work.

Oh...I suppose you DO explore the Cooper case much. Smile


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Feb 15, 2013, 2:33 PM)


BruceSmith

Feb 15, 2013, 3:03 PM
Post #40818 of 55291 (33725 views)
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An in-depth look at the resurgence [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Everyone,

I have posted my latest chapter on DB Cooper, which is an in-depth look at the resurgence, examining the impact of the Internet, open-sourced sleuthing, and the legacy of Larry Carr. I also profile Jo in depth, which has earned me a 4,000 word rebuttal from her, and you can only imagine the angry phone message! (Ah, our Jo,,,smile.)

` The clicky thingy is dingy...http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/02/15/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-an-in-depth-look-at-the-resurgence-to-solve-americas-most-mysterious-skyjacking/#more-6450[url/]


(This post was edited by BruceSmith on Feb 15, 2013, 3:04 PM)


BruceSmith

Feb 15, 2013, 3:08 PM
Post #40819 of 55291 (33722 views)
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The Legacy of Larry Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's an excerpt on Larry. I thought it deserved to be here. As for the piece on Jo, I'll keep the juicy gossip stuff closer to home.

********************

The Legacy of Larry Carr

Although the best DNA evidence that seems to be available at this time is from a very suspect sample, it does advance the Hunt for DB Cooper.

Responding to this technological crack in the case, a young special agent from Minnesota named Larry Carr, who was trained as a bank fraud investigator, asked to be assigned to Seattle as the Norjak case agent.

Surprisingly, not many FBI agents wanted the job as it entails investigating lots of long shots under the harsh glare of intense public attention, but with the new tools of the resurgence Carr wanted to take a shot at solving the Cooper case.

Plus, his rugged good-looks and obvious charisma allowed him to thrive in front of the cameras. As a result, he was rewarded with a transfer to the Seattle office in 2007. There, he reinvigorated the Cooper investigation with his dedication to a new vision for the FBI – working with the public in an active partnership.

Larry launched the new relationship with a superb gesture: he shared heretofore unreleased information, specifically the presence of the clip-on tie, and he was a regular commentator on the DZ.

Carr didn’t form the DropZone site, but he definitely got it up to highway speed. His posts as “Ckret” gave the chat room an unprecedented air of authority, and it attracted the cream of the cop of Cooper sleuths in Cyber World.

In fact, I have immense respect for Larry despite our bumpy relationship, reflected by my response one night to a Carr posting on the DZ. I forget exactly what Larry said, but I remember that the post was notated “4 am” in his sign-on, and I said to myself. “Larry can’t sleep either, tonight. DB Cooper is keeping us both up.”

From September 2007 until December 2009, Larry posted often and in depth. Highlights of his contributions include the abovementioned revelation that the cigarette buts are missing. In addition, he clarified details of the parachutes delivered to Cooper, identifying the one Cooper didn’t use as a Steinthal 26’ canopy, model 60-9707, apparently packed inside a Pioneer container.

But he added more confusion as he accepted Earl Cossey’s pronouncement that DB Cooper used a 28” canopy stuffed into a modified NB 6 container. From this declaration comes other questionable statements regarding DB Cooper’s parachuting skills, siding with parachute rigger that Cooper picked an inferior chute when he rejected the Pioneer/Steinthal.

Carr confirmed that parachute rigger Earl Cossey had significantly modified the chute Cooper is believed to have used - a military emergency parachute known as an NB 6 - thus making it difficult to deploy. This begs the question of why a master rigger would engineer a parachute designed to be a pilot’s safety rig and make it more difficult to use. Oddly, Cossey enclosed instruction for Cooper, which Carr confirms, making the whole scenario bizarre.

Compounding this, Cossey now refutes the notion that an NB 6 was used, claiming that it was an NB 8. These issues are replete with other controversies and will be discussed in greater detail in the parachute chapter.

Nevertheless, Larry also told us pieces of information that reveal how extensive the Bureau’s investigation actually was, saying that the starboard seats of Row 18 were taken out of the airplane and sent to DC for further analysis.

Also, some intriguing tidbits were shared, such as the fact that Tina was interviewed by the FBI both in Reno and Philadelphia, which is where she lived as a kid before moving to Minneapolis.

In addition, Larry told us that 60 sets of fingerprints were recovered from Flight 305, but their identities are far from complete. However, SAC Russ Calame writes in his book that the total number of fingerprints retrieved is much less and are highly suspect.

Carr also showed us some of the complexities of Cooper, revealing that the skyjacker thought the aft stairs were deployed via a mechanism in the cockpit, which suggests that he was not familiar with civilian usage of the 727.

Larry also vacillated on some of his perspectives on the case, especially concerning whether Cooper jumped over the Washougal Basin and lost some of his money there. Carr frequently supported that notion, following with the idea that the $5,800 then floated down the Washougal River to the Columbia, taking eight years to reach Tina’s Bar.

But he defended the Victor-23 flight path over Ariel, Washington, as well.

Further, he also posited that Cooper may have jumped over Orchard, Washington, near Battleground.

Larry also provided specific details, such as wind speeds and directions throughout the air column of Cooper’s drop zone, such as winds at 7,000 feet at 20 knots at 225 degrees, and 15 knots from 235 degrees at ground level.

Larry stated often that he did not think DB Cooper survived the jump In his many video presentations Larry generally declared that Cooper was an inexperienced skydiver who knew enough to put himself into serious danger.

Specifically, Carr speculated that Cooper tumbled and panicked immediately after leaving the aircraft due to the cold and his lack of proper clothing, and most likely cratered into the ground as a no-pull, or hopelessly tangled in his chute lines.

Perhaps Larry’s most famous description of the above scenario was presented in the National Geographic documentary titeld: The Skyjacker Who Got Away, which aired in the summer of 2009.

In the film, Larry and Tom Kaye shared the perspective that Cooper and all of his stuff, including the money crashed into the Lewis River drainage – most likely the river itself – and then washed down to the Columbia. There, the Cooper bundle became ensnared on a propeller shaft of a freighter going up river, which eventually separated DB’s remains from the $5,800 and deposited the latter six miles upstream at Tina’s Bar.

However, Larry did acknowledge that Cooper had some parachuting prowess, generally accepting the notion that Cooper did have some basic familiarity with parachutes and 727s, and had enough skills to at least think he could make the jump successfully.

Carr speculated that Cooper developed his limited but specific knowledge in a unique setting – aboard the cargo planes of South East Asia. Carr expressed this belief on the FBI’s Cooper web page, saying that Cooper was most probably an Air Force veteran, perhaps a “kicker” on air drops, such as were performed by the CIA’s Air America crews over Laos, Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam.

As a kicker, Cooper would have pushed cargo loads out the rear doors of a C-47 during mid-air drops while wearing an emergency parachute, most likely an NB 8 or something similar. Hence, Larry said, when Cooper was preparing to depart Flight 305 it’s reasonable to assume that he picked a parachute akin to one he knew.

In addition, Carr popularized a unique aspect of the modern Cooper case – the Dan Cooper comic books.

At this point it's important to remember that the skyjacker identified himself to the ticket manager in Portland as "Dan Cooper," not DB Cooper, which was an appellation given to him by a mistaken journalist named Clyde Jabin in the early hours of the case.

The Dan Cooper series was an action comic popular in the 1950s and 60s. They were written in French and published only in French-speaking Europe and Quebec, Canada. They are utterly unknown in the United States.

The comics describe the exploits of a Royal Canadian Air Force commando named Dan Cooper, who skydives into action to make the world safe for democracy. The existence of the comics were first discovered by an individual on the DZ named “Snowmman” and originally posted in 2009. Hence, Larry Carr gathered something very valuable for his investigation from civilian sources, too.

Carr speculated that since the comics are written in French and unknown in the United States, they might have been discovered by an American airman stationed in the French-speaking parts of Belgium, particularly Brussels, which is also where NATO is headquartered.

Thus, Carr speculated that his USAF cargo kicker spoke French, had quite possibly been stationed in the environs of Brussels, and at least got his non de guerre from the comics – or even derived the inspiration for the skyjacking.

In addition, Vietnam and Cambodia were once French colonies, and a French patois was widely spoken in SE Asia when the United States military arrived in the 1960s. This provides yet one more connection to French-speaking, comic book loving, adventure seeking American cargo kickers.

So, did DB Cooper have any knowledge of the comic book action hero? Was his signatore a talisman? An inside joke?

Why not? Or, rather, pourquoi, pas?

Sadly, after his ignoble presentation of the Propeller Theory on the National Geographic documentary - and endless ribbing on the DZ - Larry was relieved of his position as Cooper case agent by early 2010 and reportedly promoted and shipped to FBI headquarters in DC.

When he left Seattle, Larry also stopped posting on the DZ, although I believe he still follows the case. I have sent him a “personal message” on the DZ – a wonderful little feature of the web site that provides secured communications between individuals – and although Larry did respond to my “PM” he wouldn’t engage in a conversation. Further, a “SA Carr” has posted on the Mountain News-WA, my online news magainze, but again does not engage in any follow-up emails.

Nevertheless, one of Carr’s most lasting contributions to the DB Cooper case may be his Internet-based network of citizen sleuths.

Drawing from his contacts on the DZ in 2007, Carr formed a Citizens Research Group, an eclectic team of scientists and sleuths. They’ve re-examined the evidence and visited the topography of the case, applying modern technology in innovative ways - such as using electron spectroscopy to assay mineral and biological deposits on the recovered money.

The leader of the Citizens Sleuths, as they are currently known, is Tom Kaye, who was Larry’s side-kick on the Propeller Theory. However Kaye has publicly distanced himself from that infamous hypothesis.

However, the contributions of the Citizen Sleuths are extensive and will be more full examined in the following chapter.


(This post was edited by BruceSmith on Feb 15, 2013, 3:16 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 15, 2013, 3:48 PM
Post #40820 of 55291 (33710 views)
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Re: [BruceSmith] An in-depth look at the resurgence [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi Everyone,

I have posted my latest chapter on DB Cooper, which is an in-depth look at the resurgence, examining the impact of the Internet, open-sourced sleuthing, and the legacy of Larry Carr. I also profile Jo in depth, which has earned me a 4,000 word rebuttal from her, and you can only imagine the angry phone message! (Ah, our Jo,,,smile.)

` The clicky thingy is dingy...http://themountainnewswa.net/2013/02/15/the-hunt-for-db-cooper-an-in-depth-look-at-the-resurgence-to-solve-americas-most-mysterious-skyjacking/#more-6450[url/][/reply]


4000 words - BULL SHIT!

I took your paragraph and corrected you STUPID errors and I can prove it ! THAT IS A DIRECT LIE!


skyjack71

Feb 15, 2013, 4:53 PM
Post #40821 of 55291 (33702 views)
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Bruce Smith is a RUDE liar [In reply to] Can't Post

Duane and I made NO stops on the Portland side. THe stops we made where on the Vancouver side.

I am not needy or whiny - I am a strong woman and I have put up with a lot. Right now MY BLOOD is boiling.

THE ONLY REASON ANY one came into the room was because DUANE said "Fuck, Let it die with me" and in a very very loud angry voice. The nurse came into see what was wrong.



Duane made stops on the VANCOUVER side and HE did NOT go to the WATER on the Portland sided. The first stop on the return trip IN Portland from Seattle was a location West of the airport of of the EVERGREEN HWY across from the PDX but ON THE VANCOVER side. The stop was EAST of the Winterly Park.

The second stop was at the GREEN TANK, THe 3rd stop was at Tina's bar and the 4 th stop was at the RED LION.

Prior to getting to VANCOUVER was a side trip WAY before we got to VANCOUVER..... around Longwood we cross a very large bridge - over the OREGON side and when down to a small town where he went into a shop to see a woman he knew - The woman who had the antique store was not there and that is what he went to see this other woman about..

Then we went back NORTH and crossed that LONG bridge back over to the WA side and continued on into Vancouver.


Bruce's comments about me are HOW myths are born and HOW people like him create MYTHS.

Well, he doesn't have shit to sue for - his living conditions I have heard are deplorable. With the way he SLANDERS people on the this thread and IN this site - IS what keeps the myth going.

I did expect him to tell the truth and not to TWIST AND TURN things I said. My BLOOD is boiling and I have to take some medication -

I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY BRUCE SMITH. YOU PROBAGATED A LIE AND FOR WHAT REASON.

YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE DAMN clue what is really going on.


SEE HOW SCREWED UP PEOPLE ARE - NO ONE LISTENS TO DAMN THING - THEY WANT TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE. THESE JOURNALIST WRITE WHAT THEY WANT - NOT THE TRUTH. THEY HEAR WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR. BRUCE WOULD NOT DARE LIE ABOUT HIS SUSPECT - DRAYTON.

NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY TINA, AND THE CO-PILOT DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE.....LIES AND MISINTERPERTATIONS LIKE THE ONE BRUCE JUST POSTED!

I can't take anymore of this - NO MORE. I had done NOTHING but try to tell what I know and all I get is persecuted over and over and over.


Robert99

Feb 15, 2013, 5:59 PM
Post #40822 of 55291 (33684 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] An in-depth look at the resurgence [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Hi Everyone,

I have posted my latest chapter on DB Cooper, which is an in-depth look at the resurgence, examining the impact of the Internet, open-sourced sleuthing, and the legacy of Larry Carr. I also profile Jo in depth, which has earned me a 4,000 word rebuttal from her, and you can only imagine the angry phone message! (Ah, our Jo,,,smile.)

` The clicky thingy is dingy...

http://themountainnewswa.net/...kyjacking/#more-6450


4000 words - BULL SHIT!

I took your paragraph and corrected you STUPID errors and I can prove it ! THAT IS A DIRECT LIE!

In the interest of self-preservation, maybe I should point out that the only thing I did to the above was correct an error so the clicky would work. Bruce and Jo did the rest.

Robert99


(This post was edited by Robert99 on Feb 15, 2013, 8:44 PM)


377  (F 666)

Feb 15, 2013, 7:02 PM
Post #40823 of 55291 (33665 views)
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Re: [georger] WTF is THIS? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know where Tom's "center" is Georger. Sorry.

One thing I do know about dredgers is that they cut corners. There are designated offshore areas for dumping dredge spoils. Many times when it was foggy we'd see dumps taking place far inshore. It saved time and nobody on shore could see the shortcut. I saw shortcuts taken by commercial dredge barges and big Army Corps of Engineers dredges too.

The point is don't assume that plans indicate reality. Look where the spoils dumps really happened, not where the plans said they should have been. If there was an easier alternative, it may have been taken.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 15, 2013, 7:05 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 15, 2013, 9:11 PM
Post #40824 of 55291 (33629 views)
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BRUCE is OBTUSE! [In reply to] Can't Post

Death-bed confessions

Quote:
After her husband’s outburst in the hospital, Jo sought to comfort her husband and a nurse rushed in, but the two women heard nothing more about DB Cooper. Certainly, the nurse did not hear any confession, and apparently Jo is the only one who did.

I never said anyone was in the room and that the nurse heard his raised voice and came to see what was wrong and started the morphine.


Quote:
But, she also says that Duane left unannounced for up to six hours at a time, never telling her where he had gone when he returned.


The time was 5 1/2 hours.

Once in The Dalles of Oregon, she says Duane returned to their motel room with his clothes were dirtied and muddied soiled, as if he had been digging. He told me the woman he went to see asked him to move some things


Quote:
Duane also did odd things, such as surreptitiously throw a small paper sack into the Columbia River from the riverfront promenade of the Red Lion Inn in Vancouver, Washington. Later, he drove to a dead end street across the river, told Jo to stay in the car, retrieved something from the trunk and headed towards the Columbia, returning in a few minutes.

A dead end street across the river???? We made stops EAST of Winterly Park, the Green Tank, Tena's Bar and finally the Red Lion. I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEAl what you are referring to - what dead end street and where? YOU are masking the truths with lies here!

I do NOT have time to address the rest of your obtuse lieing article, but believe me you will know by Wednesday of NEXT wk. I suggest you delete the article about me NOW.

I thought you were changing your ways and might become a creditable writer - you will never be able to walk away for your ENQuirer ATTITUDE.



(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 15, 2013, 9:14 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 15, 2013, 9:37 PM
Post #40825 of 55291 (33623 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] BRUCE is OBTUSE! [In reply to] Can't Post

But the most memorable moment occurred in Camas, Washington, where Duane pointed to a spot in the woods along the north shore of Lake Camas, and according to Jo said, “That’s where Cooper came out of the woods.”

Jo said she replied, “How would you know?” and Duane supposedly said, “Maybe I was his ground man.”

Even more incredibly, such an exchange refutes Jo’s initial claim to me – which she has reiterated many times on the DZ – that she had never heard of DB Cooper, or even “Dan Cooper,” until Duane made his confession in 1995.

But both of these two declarations cannot be true, which begs the question: is Jo Weber lying?

Or is she simply a distraught widow lost in her grief and talking nutty?

I confronted Jo on this discrepancy and she artfully back-tracked from her claim that she had never heard about DB Cooper until her husband’s death-bed confession. I am unsatisfied by her explanations. Frankly, I feel deceived.

YOU feel deceived - how dare you! I had read an article about Cooper in 1971 before I ever met Duane. It was on the 3rd page of my local paper. Page 1 and 2 were all about the war. This was about D.B.Cooper NOT DAN COOPER!

I meet Duane in 1977 and we get married in 1978. In 1979 when we made that trip to WA. Cooper was mentioned ONE time and I took it as a joke - REMEMBER I lived in GA in 1971.

Then when the money showed up 1980 - WELL, I have already talked about his actions...not allowing me to see the paper, the safe deposit box, then his quick exit from Colorado.

1995 Duane Weber is dying. EVEN when one is prepared for the death of someone they love, it is difficult when the Dr. tells you that your husband will be dead in 5 days! Duane told me he was DAN COOPER - DAN COOPER had no associations with D.B. Cooper and Cooper was NOT in the media in the south every yr....I did NOT know the name given by D.B. was Dan. Plus it was 15 yrs later and there WAS no mention of Cooper until he said "I'm Dan Coooper!"

One yr and 2 months later I learned Dan Cooooper and D.B. Cooper were one and the same.
I did NOT keep up with old crimes - I had always been too busy making a living and providing for my family and being a good wife. AS soon as I realized what he was talking about I called the FBI - but, we all know how that went. I was accused of drinking or doing drugs by the FBI. THEY STILL OWE ME AND APOLOGY ON THAT!



My husband is dying and you think I am going to remember what he said 15 yrs ago. I had long before that put the remark out of my mind. D.B. Cooper was NOT in the papers in the SOUTH every Nov.

If you cannot understand this - perhaps you need to apply at the ENQUIRER!



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