Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
DB Cooper

 

First page Previous page 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 ... 2251 Next page Last page  View All

skyjack71

Mar 19, 2008, 12:24 AM
Post #351 of 56251 (50771 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] The Timeline? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What's interesting is that the teletype mentioned an oscillation at 8:12, and it has been thoroughly discussed by Cooper experts/authors that the pressure bump occured simultaneously with the oscillation and that both of these events were reproduced in the testing that happened in Jan 72.

The two people who would know the most about the reliability of the timeline would be William Rataczak and Ralph Himmelsbach. Captain Scott died 7 years ago yesterday.

As I have said before why doesn't someone go to the horses mouth before it is too late...there is only one person left alive that can give us the exact time - Rataczak. If we don't get the facts from him we can speculate till the end of time.

Regarding: GALEN COOK - this man has had 3 suspects so far - where does he dig them up? You just do not walk around on this earth and accuse people of being Cooper - How many of Cooks "suspects" admitted they were Cooper? I know that Cook has accused me of slandering him - when I have only said that the kept bugging me and bugging me about Tina - GOD help her if that man finds her.

He is writing a book - and so are a couple of others out there, but all I want is the truth...just the truth.

I have contacted Tina again just to warn her about this man who has been so persistent, not to mention trying to trick me into acknowledging her contact information...early on I heard and saw my own Granddaughter in this person - and I chose not to harass her or inflict photos on her and to respect her privacy...I have often wanted to and promised myself that I would, but I come back to what is called respect...that is how I was raised.

I received no acknowledgement of that contact and did not ask for one.

Cook's story sound oddly like the one against Mayfield. Guys, think about this - How could Cooper have evaded the FBI and not be suspected by friends and relatives - when he is a known jumper and lived in the area? Lots of jumper have eluded to being Cooper, but it is all in fun - they know that for one reason or another that they could prove that they were not Cooper should they finc the need to do so.

If Cooper was a known jumper - he would have been in prison...that or he was a No-Pull.

AH-so the story goes on and on just like the energizer bunny! My battery has about reached the end of its life - but, I won't give up until the last ray of light fades.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Mar 19, 2008, 12:27 AM)


Albert18

Mar 19, 2008, 7:03 AM
Post #352 of 56251 (50747 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] Galen Cook Photo Comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

There is one thing that has bothered me about the sketches of Cooper.

Ckret posted the descriptions of Cooper and they made a point about his olive colored skin. He had a dark complexion.

The problem is the facial features in the sketch don't support that.

For example tennis player Rafael Nadal has a dark complexion and his "look" matches his skin color.

Actors Cary Grant and George Hamilton have a dark complexion but you can tell it is a "created" look.

My guess is Cooper was not really a "latin" but rather was just a guy with an outdoor complexion. If that is the case though, the witnesses should have been able to determine that.


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 19, 2008, 4:41 PM
Post #353 of 56251 (50706 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Albert18] Galen Cook Photo Comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

Albert,
I think that's a very astute observation.

I concur with your reasoning and your conclusion. The sketch artist's job is to nail the facial attributes. The olive skin and latin look was in reference to skin color, but not facial attributes. Makes sense to me. Good take.


377  (F 666)

Mar 19, 2008, 5:39 PM
Post #354 of 56251 (50698 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Albert18] Galen Cook Photo Comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

Has anyone considered the possibility that Cooper used makeup to darken his facial complexion? It isnt uncommon for criminals (in environments where they couldnt wear a mask) to use wigs, hair dye, makeup and other devices to confuse or thwart possible later identification. Skin color is easily darkened with non glossy makeup that is hard to spot. It would have been a smart thing for Cooper to do. Much easier to darken skin than lighten it. Cooper must have thought about being recognized or identified later. Doesnt it make sense that he would have and taken steps to minimize that possibility?


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 19, 2008, 8:59 PM
Post #355 of 56251 (50682 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Galen Cook Photo Comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

Good question.

The answer is yes. Many have theorized that Cooper wore make-up, wig, and perhaps even a total disguise.

The McCoy theorists tend to favor this idea since McCoy lacked the complexion and was not old enough to be Cooper.

To quote post #1529 on the old thread, Ckret said:
-He had olive skin (no make-up, neither Mucklow, Schaffner or Hancock made comment on make-up which would have been very obvious. Again, do the math, put dark makeup on someone then sit next to them with your shoulders touching, you can see the make-up.)

-He had dark hair, receding with sideburns (no wig, this would have been painfully obvious, if a man was wearing a wig with a receding hair line and side burns everyone would have noticed, especially Mucklow and Schaffner.)


As it was 377, Cooper did wear a disguise; his sunglasses.

Hair coloring would certainly be possible as well, but we'll never really know that (unless they figure out who he was and the guy had red hair or something).


377  (F 666)

Mar 19, 2008, 11:14 PM
Post #356 of 56251 (50669 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] Galen Cook Photo Comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

sounds like no disguise other than sunglasses. Did he have them on at all times he was seen by crew?

377

"you do not need a parachute to skydive. you only need a parachute to skydive twice."


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 20, 2008, 8:18 AM
Post #357 of 56251 (50636 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] Sunglasses [In reply to] Can't Post

According to Ckret in posts #436 & #1529

-He had brown eyes (Schaffner saw his eyes before he put on the glasses, he looked directly at her several times urging her to read the note)

My guess is he didn't want to stick out too much while boarding, etc and waited to put on the glasses until there was a reason to do so. Not sure if that was a good idea or not, but that's how it went down.


low_pull1

Mar 20, 2008, 4:32 PM
Post #358 of 56251 (50603 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] Galen Cook Photo Comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

The attention to detail, the number of witnesses, and the number of revisions to get the picture just right should all tell you that the Cooper sketch would not be as weak as the Son of Sam sketch.
.........................
I agree

c


low_pull1

Mar 21, 2008, 5:06 AM
Post #359 of 56251 (50571 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] The Timeline? [In reply to] Can't Post

...........................
How could Cooper have evaded the FBI and not be suspected by friends and relatives
........................

If the sketch was off slightly, friends and relatives might not have known.


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 21, 2008, 7:06 AM
Post #360 of 56251 (50553 views)
Shortcut
Re: [low_pull1] The Timeline? [In reply to] Can't Post

The sketch that appeared in the morning newspapers and on television was absolutely horrible.

If you take the Bing Crosby sketch and reduce a lot of the detail, you'll have the initial sketch that was released to the press. (found a copy of it online and have attached it).

The revised "Crosby" sketch is continued to be used by the media, even to this day! (For example, in the NY Magazine about Christiansen, they use the old sketch)

That means, even though the FBI revised the sketch at least twice more, the media kept using the old sketch.

My personal opinion is that using the first sketch may have been the biggest mistake made in this case. Granted, the FBI doesn't control what the media does, but perhaps they could have strongly urged media outlets to update their picture in subsequent articles and television shows.

If Cooper lived, a poor sketch may have been the reason he got away with it. If Cooper died, I would hope the FBI would have perused the missing person's files for the first decade.


(This post was edited by SafecrackingPLF on Mar 21, 2008, 7:17 AM)
Attachments: first revised sketch.jpg (5.02 KB)
  original sketch.gif (16.0 KB)


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Mar 21, 2008, 10:16 AM
Post #361 of 56251 (50496 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] The Timeline? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If you take the Bing Crosby sketch and reduce a lot of the detail, you'll have the initial sketch that was released to the press. (found a copy of it online and have attached it).

The revised "Crosby" sketch is continued to be used by the media, even to this day! (For example, in the NY Magazine about Christiansen, they use the old sketch

If I had to take a guess at this, which, I guess I don't have to but I will anyway, you're looking at the -SAME- sketch in both cases that you've attached.

It's not that the one you call "revised" is revised, but rather the one you're calling "original" is probably the lithographically reduced image for ease of copy and distribution.

The sketch artist would have worked in pencil or charcoal in order to get the depth and shading, but that original sketch would not have been able to been distributed via the wire services at the time. "Grey scale" didn't exist in that type of equipment. EVERYTHING of a photographic nature would be reduced to either; lithographic dots or simple black and white.

Please see attached.

All three are the "same" image; the original, the grey scale, the black and white "copy".

Now, with this in mind, revisit the images you've uploaded. With the exception of the sunglasses version being on the right or left, the two are the "same" In particular notice details such as the angle of the shirt collar, ect. The charcoal sketch isn't the "revised" one to make it look better, it's, in fact, the original.


(This post was edited by quade on Mar 22, 2008, 1:33 AM)
Attachments: example.jpg (39.5 KB)


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 21, 2008, 12:06 PM
Post #362 of 56251 (50484 views)
Shortcut
Re: [quade] The Timeline? [In reply to] Can't Post

Good post. Maybe revised was a stretch. They did however revise this sketch completely with Roy Rose & another revision of THAT sketch.

I will say this, on the FBI wanted poster, they had the lithographically reduced image not the grayscale. The more detailed photo didn't turn up in the media (from what I can tell) until television shows in the 80s and in published books of the 80s and 90s.

Either way, the perpetuation of the first sketch (whether it was revised or not) probably added enough ambiguity to facial details, that it may have helped Cooper get away with it... that is, if he did get away with it.

Why they would use the original sketch throughout the media and even still to this day, when witnesses have complained that the sketch did not look like Cooper, is beyond me.

But that's just one person's opinion. Thank you for continuing to add to the discussion Quade.


peckerhead

Mar 21, 2008, 4:20 PM
Post #363 of 56251 (50459 views)
Shortcut
Re: [skyjack71] Facts and theories [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I have not been able to get into this discussion and it is just as well. Cooper did not become separated from the money - he buried most of it and returned in 1979 which was the first time he had the opportunity to go back to WA.

So your theory is that Cooper landed with the money, hid it somewhere, and then came back 8 years later, dug it up and threw it in the river?

Why?

Maybe he did it just for the thrill and did not even want the money?

What?


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 22, 2008, 7:48 AM
Post #364 of 56251 (50421 views)
Shortcut
Re: [peckerhead] Facts and theories [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know Skyjack's exact theory (tough to follow), but my post #315 second part, did go through a theory that would explain why. I'm not sure if my "why" matches what Skyjack thinks, but it's at least "a" reason.

Simple answer: not from the area & had to use some form of public transportation to get back home (the further Cooper's home is, the better this fits). Weber's home was in Georgia. He had family that lived in a Modesto suburb if I understand, so that would be another option.

It's not without its holes, but personally, I think the holes are relatively small comparitive to pretty much every other theory that has been proposed.


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 22, 2008, 8:18 AM
Post #365 of 56251 (50415 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Albert18] Cooper Sketch [In reply to] Can't Post

From Jan post on websleuths:
Quote:
I don't go much by the eyes or the hair because I don't trust that part of the sketch but the mouth area could be the one area the witnesses got right.

Albert, that's an interesting opinion. I wouldn't dismiss the other features, because I would think the sketch artist would go down the line and try and match the facial features as best as possible. They have a protocol for this type of thing (but I don't know what it is). Anyone who's familiar with police sketches would be welcomed to post some insight.

Albert, since you mention the mouth, I want to post the following picture. What you will see is a sketch of the first revision done by Rose. I've isolated just the mouth.

His next revision altered the mouth once again to what we see today.

Here's what he originally drew along side one of the suspects often discussed here and other forums.

I think the mouth depicted in the original Rose sketch is very odd. It's a crooked frown and if you were to look at dozens of mouths, you would quickly see that this type of mouth shape is not normal. Why he changed the mouth on his subsequent drawing would be debatable. My theory would be that Cooper's mouth was too pursed in the original Rose sketch, and that's why it was flattened out on revision.

I'm still left to question what it was that Rose was trying to depict. Could this be what Pasternak learned when speaking to the artist himself? No one knows, it has never been disclosed and skyjack never answered my question about the two meeting each other when I asked on the other thread (maybe she couldn't get a hold of him?).
Attachments: Mouth Comparison.jpg (25.9 KB)


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 22, 2008, 9:07 AM
Post #366 of 56251 (50407 views)
Shortcut
Sideburn Conjecture [In reply to] Can't Post

In post #1149 of the old thread, Ckret submitted the following description of Cooper:
Mucklow
"W/M, mid 40's, 5-10" 6', 180 to 190, med to dark complexion, medium build, dark straight hair with narrow sideburns to mid ear parted and combed back, dark plastic wrap-around sunglasses, dark top coat, dark brown suit possibly with a thin black stripe, brown socks, brown ankle length pebble grain shoes, not the tie type, he had a low voice with no accent, she did not see scars, marks or tattoos, the man did not have on any jewerly she could see."


While this post I'm submitting right now has little to do with anything, it's sometimes fun to play around with the description.

First, men rarely change their hairstyles. Yes, they do, but it's a lot less frequent than women. Sideburns might be one of those things that men don't change too much over their lifetime. Perhaps the length of them, the style, but wearing them verses not wearing them might be more constant throughout a man's lifetime. I personally, have never worn sideburns. This is probably why I'm gravitating towards that element of the description.

All of that is just conjecture on my part. I can only speak for myself and other males that I've known throughout my life. I'd love to hear your thoughts as well.

Cooper had "narrow sideburns" that went down to mid ear (less than the full length of the ear).

My question is, which Cooper suspects liked to wear sideburns, and which didn't?

Please look at photos of all the popular suspects.
Who is wearing sideburns?

In the only published photo of Christiansen, he did NOT wear sideburns. I've zoomed in on that photo and he's totally whitewalled. Conclusion: No

Cook's unnamed suspect is tough to decipher. It doesn't look like he's wearing sideburns, but I can't tell with this photo or another published photo. Conclusion: inconclusive

Every photo of Weber where he doesn't have a butched haircut, he's wearing sideburns. In this photo, he's wearing narrow sideburns that go down part way the length of the ear.
Conclusion: Yes

McCoy is famous for his sideburns. In this photo, his sideburns were actually too large. If he was Cooper, then he certainly grew them out and styled them much differently.
Conclusion: Yes

In this photo taken of Mayfield's interview with Inside Edition, you can see his thick sideburns. They aren't very long, but knowing that he was to appear on national television, I'd think he'd get himself a haircut and that these sideburns weren't just a function of his hair growing out.
Conclusion: Yes

The only person we can conclusively say did not wear sideburns was Christiansen. Granted, we only have one picture of him, but as a person who does not wear them at all, I think it may be an odd thing to change. Personal theory is that sideburns are a preference and that the preference may not change too much over a guy's lifespan.

I know this post means nothing, I know it's not proof of any kind, and it does not matter. But, I thought it would be fun to hear other guy's perspective on sideburns.


(This post was edited by SafecrackingPLF on Mar 22, 2008, 11:22 AM)
Attachments: popular suspects.jpg (266 KB)


Orange1  (B License)

Mar 22, 2008, 11:07 AM
Post #367 of 56251 (50396 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] Facts and theories [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't know Skyjack's exact theory (tough to follow), but my post #315 second part, did go through a theory that would explain why. I'm not sure if my "why" matches what Skyjack thinks, but it's at least "a" reason.

Simple answer: not from the area & had to use some form of public transportation to get back home (the further Cooper's home is, the better this fits). Weber's home was in Georgia. He had family that lived in a Modesto suburb if I understand, so that would be another option.

It's not without its holes, but personally, I think the holes are relatively small comparitive to pretty much every other theory that has been proposed.

I think it's a damn big hole, actually. To go to all the trouble to pull off the caper and then have to leave all that money buried for 8 years because you didn't have access to transport that you could use safely - or, frankly, any other reason - just seems ridiculous. 8 years is a long time to trust a hiding place to remain secure, $200K in the early 1970s a damn good reason to buy a car (or fix up whatever the reason was for apparently leaving the money behind) and get it back real quick. I'm sorry, but this is one aspect of that "theory" that seriously undermines it imho.

As for the sideburns... well, they were very fashionable back in the early 70s. Doesn't really mean much to me, probably about as common as men wearing jeans today is.


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 22, 2008, 11:53 AM
Post #368 of 56251 (50391 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Orange1] Sideburn Discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I agree with you regarding getting back to retrieve the dough.

I know you believe the money was seperated from Cooper and just was in limbo out in the elements for 8 years... a much bigger hole than divining the thoughts and intents of Weber (if he was Cooper) because you have so many huge obstacles to cover; that was the only point when I said "comparitive" small hole.

When comparing all the submitted theories, the he hid it and came back for it later theory has the least holes.

First, you're operating under the supposition that Cooper would have hidden all of the money. I don't think anyone (certainly not me) has submitted that idea. I don't believe it for a second. You would have to weigh Cooper's motivation for doing such a thing verses the theorized actions. If Cooper had to leave the bag of cash behind in fear of being caught, that does not prevent him from packing money into something less noticable.

I play a lot of cards. I can tell you that card players are prone to carry large sums of cash (over $100k) on their person from time to time. Nowadays we have money belts. Back in the olden days, we had to stuff cash wherever we could without it being noticable. Like I said, a guy can carry over $100k on himself even without a money belt... if you reduce the denominations from 100s to 20s, you can carry between 20 to 30k depending on what you're wearing. In those days, you could purchase two houses outright with 30k, so it's no small amount of money.

There are other factors that can play into the general theory I outlined in #315 such as prison time, injury, (I guess even death but it would require a second person)...

If it were me (and probably if it were you or anyone else on this board), I would have gone back for hidden money well before 8 yrs later. Especially if I had already gotten away with it. I suppose the only things that would cause me to hesitate would be:
1. I'm doing really well for myself and don't need any additional funds (sort of a weak excuse)
2. I can't get away for some reason (prison, commitments)
3. If I fly, I fear being recognized
4. Train, car, are too slow (see #2)
5. Have authorities found the stash and are they hoping someone will come around to get it?
6. Statute of limitations; I can still get busted for this, so I'll wait.
7. I cannot find the money and have tried unsuccessfully (this fits the general theory, but not necessarily the Weber theory in particular)

That's about it. Maybe there are other factors, but those are what I can come up with.

As for sideburns, I definitely have thought of what you're saying (they were in fashion). I think that's definitely valid and perhaps likely, but it's still a preference that may or may not change over a person's lifetime. For example, the Mayfield photo was taken recently. The Weber photo was from the mid 60s (not 70s) and photos of him in the 80s show him with bigger/longer sideburns. Christiansen had a clean cut look with no burns. Cook's guy appears to have the same. McCoy's was more of that early 70s fashion you're talking about, but the Cooper description doesn't fit this fashion model....

maybe not worth discussion, but certainly something that I find a bit entertaining.


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 22, 2008, 1:04 PM
Post #369 of 56251 (50383 views)
Shortcut
If Cooper Lived... [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a discussion I'd love for people to chime in on.

If you can put your other hats on and venture down hypothetical lane, what type of behaviors and thoughts would you attribute to Cooper in the years following the crime?

I'm curious about everyone's hypothesis, but for me, I'm mostly interested in what would have gone through Cooper's mind in the days, weeks, or months following Ingram's find.

If Cooper lived, then he would have heard the news that some of the ransom would have been found. This case had not really made the news until that point.

If Cooper lived, he would have paid close attention to the news reports regarding the recovered money. Most criminals keep up on what the media says about their crime. Some have been known to keep news clippings. Some have even interacted directly with the media as did some famed criminals around the time of the Cooper heist.

My question surrounds this. If Cooper lived and he lived thousands of miles away from the NW, the Ingram find would have been the first media attention thrown at this case since 1971.

This is significant because the AP reported as part of this story something that Cooper probably didn't know. He had been federally indicted to circumvent the statute of limitations.

If Cooper lived, Ingram's find would have immediately informed him that he was forever on the hook for the Cooper crime, instead of the five years a person might normally think.

What would go through Cooper's mind in the days, weeks, and months following Ingram's find?

Suppose Cooper just found out that he'll never make it off of the wanted list for his 1971 extracurricular activities, do you think he'd just go about business as usual? Do you think he'd panic? Do you think he'd change his appearance?

What do YOU think?

Remember, it's hypothetical...


Orange1  (B License)

Mar 22, 2008, 11:35 PM
Post #370 of 56251 (50345 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] Sideburn Discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well I agree with you regarding getting back to retrieve the dough.

I know you believe the money was seperated from Cooper and just was in limbo out in the elements for 8 years... a much bigger hole than divining the thoughts and intents of Weber (if he was Cooper) because you have so many huge obstacles to cover; that was the only point when I said "comparitive" small hole.

Well, I clearly have't spent the many hours you seem to have on poring over all the details. Money found without cooper in my mind = either he lost some or all of it in the air, or he died. Grand conspiracy theories about people surviving a jump like this when there is no evidence they ever did a single jump in their lives then leaving some behind for 8 years probably make great fiction, if all the 'evidence' you have is that they wore sideburns for a long time. The biggest hole in the Weber theory remains the fact that he has not ever been placed in a parachute, despite Jo's many attempts to follow all sorts of angles, and while there may be disagreement among jumpers as to how survivable the jump was for an experienced jumper or paratrooper, I doubt you will find ONE who thinks someone who had no or little experience would have survived it.

I'm very curious as to your reasons for being here ... the amount of time & effort you've spent, you've already indicated you have plans to go check out the areas and yet IIRC you also said you weren't even alive when the hijack happened... are you one of those people Jo thinks wants to write a book about it?


skyjack71

Mar 23, 2008, 1:06 AM
Post #371 of 56251 (50341 views)
Shortcut
Re: [SafecrackingPLF] If Cooper Lived... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
?
If Cooper lived, then he would have heard the news that some of the ransom would have been found. This case had not really made the news until that point.

If Cooper lived, he would have paid close attention to the news reports regarding the recovered money. Most criminals keep up on what the media says about their crime. Some have been known to keep news clippings. Some have even interacted directly with the media as did some famed criminals around the time of the Cooper heist.

This is significant because the AP reported as part of this story something that Cooper probably didn't know. He had been federally indicted to circumvent the statute of limitations.

If Cooper lived, Ingram's find would have immediately informed him that he was forever on the hook for the Cooper crime, instead of the five years a person might normally think.

What would go through Cooper's mind in the days, weeks, and months following Ingram's find?

Suppose Cooper just found out that he'll never make it off of the wanted list for his 1971 extracurricular activities, do you think he'd just go about business as usual? Do you think he'd panic? Do you think he'd change his appearance.

I know what he did. We were living in Ft. Collins when the money was found. I had picked up the newspaper and laid it on the dining room table commenting about the article on the front page but did not have time nor interest to read the entire article. That newspaper disappeared - he took it with him.

A couple of wks later the TV was having a special on one of the programs like America's Most Wanted and doing a special segment about Cooper. I wanted to see that program and suddenly out of the blue Duane has arranged for us to go to dinner and to a bar on a WEEK DAY NIGHT - I remembered commenting to the wife (they owned and ran a local dry cleaners, but I do not remember their names) that I was sorry I wasn't very good company because I really wanted to see that program and she said she did too.

Within a couple of wks Duane annouced that the company was taking his territory away from us and giving it to someone else. I would find out yrs later that he resigned. He was making fantastic money and doing a good job - I couldn't understand why.

Now in retrospect I realize he was on the run - he was afraid someone would finger him and he wanted to get back to the annonmity of the South. Within in two wks he was gone - leaving me and my daughter in Ft. Collins. She was a senior and I was not pulling her out of school. He left in March and came back for her graduation in May and to help us pack.

The job he took in AL was with a company he had not done well with in the past - it was a nowhere job.
We were drowning - and this is the one time I caught him doing something I did not approve of and that was the end of it or the end of the marriage - he had a choice. You might say an Ultimatem.

We then went to ATl. - where he was able to get back on with the same Company we worked for in Co. We went to Va. to live and work - the job was fantastic and we were both doing well....but, he grew this large head of hair and a real bushy mustach (this was around 1984). When he was asked to take the State Manager position he refused telling me that he had to "keep a Low Profile" ... I did not understand this, but with some nudging and encouragement from me and the Regional Director he did start a crew up and he was so proud of himself - he was successful. Then came the old kidney thing with the whallop it dealt him and in 1988 he was put out on disability.

Something else happened during this time frame - he bought a book. (He never read books). When I asked him what it was about he said just and old highjacking (I thought he meant trucks) and nothing I would be interested in. I asked him to let me take a look at it when he got thru with it. Later I asked him about the book and he said one of the guys at the office had it. There is NO WAY he could let me see that book - he was afraid I would figure it out.
After all he had said quiet a few things on that WA trip.

In 1990 after he started dialysis - he managed to get a drivers license with the Old false ID of John Collins. (I found out when the Highway Patrol came knocking on my door wanting to know if I knew this man - it was picture of Duane). Even after the authorities managed to find him he still managed to get the new ID.

This ID along with other papers was found in the van I sold after checking it out very well - because he had told me about keeping things in the van before he died, but I didn't find anything. I have no idea what else this man found..but a story told to me by one of Duane's antique and flea market friends was told to Doug Pasternak.

The gentleman who had a business across the street from the shop told me much later that he thought I was OK financially because Duane had a lot of cash. He said that he had walked in the shop one day and Duane was sitting there with stacks of 100's - about 50K. I never saw that money. It could have been in the van or maybe he spent it over the next 5 yrs. We did not seem to do without the necessities of life and the shop seemed to be doing well. I was still selling Insurance.

Maybe he had to get that old ID for John Collins because someplace he had a saftey deposit box - I was told that on a business trip to Tallahassee that he left as soon as they got there and did not come back until the next day......this is in the same time span I saw the ticket stub, the ticket and the bank bag. It has been suggested that maybe he committed another crime and that would account for the money - but not the TICKET or STUB or the bank bag. If he had a saftey deposit account - it would have been in ATL. and prepaid.

The FBI has not done their job. I know Duane was Cooper --- I have absolutely no doubt.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Mar 23, 2008, 1:21 AM)


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 23, 2008, 9:03 AM
Post #372 of 56251 (50313 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Orange1] Sideburn Discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

Let me put your heart at ease my friend.

Everything I've discussed on this board has, for the most part, been free of discussing why a particular person committed a crime. Sure, I made some summaries about Weber and Mayfield, but those were for the benefit of everyone else.

If you look over pretty much the substance of what I've put down here, you'll see that it's independent of any particular person.

Clark County can be looked at geographically to determine where streams and creeks flow.

There are six major regions of clark county, each of which have a major waterway leading to the Columbia River.

4 of the regions force the water to adjoin the Columbia north of where the money was recovered in 1980.

The other 2 regions have been major discussion points because they actually feed the Columbia in a way that actually could explain money washing up.

The most likely of the two was LaCamas Lake. I can't rule it out entirely just yet, not until I get confirmation that the skimmers have been used for decades. Without the skimmers, one must still believe a bag of money was able to float from the north end into Round Lake and was never seen. This was discussed at length in some of my other posts.

The other viable waterway is Washougal River. This was THE waterway that the FBI and countless others theorized about for decades. The problem is, it's region does not spread north enough or west enough to solve the mystery. Essentially, it can be ruled out entirely.

The next set of parameters to look at is the 1974 layer in the sand. Anything above this layer was placed there afterwards. The money was found about 18 inches above the 1974 layer, and according to Ckret, experts concluded that the money had gotten there less than a year prior to being found.

The next set of parameters to look at is the location of the plane at the time of the jump. It was east or northeast of LaCenter depending on the exact time you think the jump/oscillation occured.

Along with that, the time of the jump is imperative. I will work on sealing this some in the next week. As it is now, we know the FBI was adamant about the landing area. There are reasons for this which would be nice for all of us to know.

If you remove the timeline arbitarily and take the appropriate flight path, there are miles between the path itself and the outer boundry of the LaCamas Region.

The calculated landing area is over 12 miles from where the money was found.

I don't have to subscribe to any theory to derive these conclusions. Either someone found the money and planted it in 1979 (planted by physically dropping it or placing it or throwing it in the river), or Cooper himself did this.

There's really no way around it. In addition, any theory that does not fit the parameters is literally, impossible.

The only possible weaknesses in the conclusion are the float time of the money bag, the location of the plane, and timeline of the jump. Solve all three of those in a way that answers the 1974 layer in the sand, and you have a viable theory.

Right now, to attack any of those would leave you on shaky ground. I plan on making some significant phone calls this week to shed some light on any remaining questions of the timeline, location, and the bag that was given to Cooper.

If the bag given to Cooper was anything less than what was outlined by Guru, then there's going to be an issue with float time. If I can confirm the skimmers, there's going to be issues with LaCamas viability. If I can find out why the FBI was so convinced of the location of the plane and the timeline, then the entire debate will be frivolous.

I do not care if Weber did it. I do not care if Christiansen did it. I do not care if Mayfield did it. I do not care if McCoy did it. I do not care if Cooper died. I do not care if Cooper lived. I do not care if the skydiving community is split 80/20 on the survivablity of the jump. I do not care if 174 pounds of force caused the bag to rip from Cooper's body.

I care about staying true to the facts in the case.

There's a complete delineation between fact and conjecture. The things I outlined above are fairly straightforward. They do not require conjecture. What requires conjecture is to argue with the facts.

If anything, I've given you and everyone else a starting point for arguing. If you think the money was caught up in a tree for 7 years, that's great. You just have to place the bag in an appropriate place: timeline & location are the facts you need to dispute. If you think the money washed up naturally, you know where you have to argue.

That's all. It doesn't take a conspiracy theory to draw the conclusions I've drawn.

OTOH, to argue against them without any substance, sure sounds a lot of like a conspiracy theory.

The sideburn question was just for fun Orange1. I only know about Weber because so much has been posted about him, including pictures up the ying yang. The other guys, I have very few photos of... sideburns will not solve the case. I was trying to make this debate a little more fun.

Maybe that's not what's wanted here???

If I make a post as to why any particular person "may" have done it, it does not take away from the conclusions outlined above. Keep the debate on things that count. If you want to argue, let's argue facts. If you want to just shoot the breeze (like I was trying to do with the sideburns post and the if Cooper lived post) then let's do that. I don't care either way.


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 23, 2008, 9:28 AM
Post #373 of 56251 (50307 views)
Shortcut
Why [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm very curious as to your reasons for being here ... the amount of time & effort you've spent, you've already indicated you have plans to go check out the areas and yet IIRC you also said you weren't even alive when the hijack happened

I'm not here to write a book. If I were, I wouldn't write all that I know for free...

All these people, Mayfield, Christiansen... they all want to write a book. But who in the world wants to buy a book? Very few. It's a losing proposition.

I will send you a PM with more information about myself. Any opinions I express do not diminish anything from what I posted. Those conclusions can stand on their own.


1969912

Mar 23, 2008, 5:18 PM
Post #374 of 56251 (50275 views)
Shortcut
Location of money? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm looking for some clarification regarding where the money was found. I thought it was at/near Frenchman's Bar, which is 5+ miles long. Several posts in Cooper discussion threads mention "Tena(s) or Tina(s) Bar" as the location. A post on another thread by Skyjack71 claims that and Frenchman's Reef" are the same place (I'll assume she meant "Frenchman's Bar"). There is only one reference outside of Cooper discussion threads to anything Tina-like related to that area of the Columbia and/or Cooper, and that is a waypoint page at waymarking.com. I transferred those coordinates to a WikiMapia link, which is much easier to use than the one on the waymarking.com page. The "Tena Bar" location is a few miles North of Frenchman's Bar Park.

----

Is the location above correct? Any other opinions?


The attached pictures (renamed by me) are from the waymarking.com page above.

thanks,

jim
Attachments: Tina_Bar_Sign.jpg (38.4 KB)
  May_be_Cooper_Money_Dig.jpg (55.6 KB)
  May_be_Cooper_Money_Dig.jpg (55.6 KB)


SafecrackingPLF

Mar 23, 2008, 7:13 PM
Post #375 of 56251 (50266 views)
Shortcut
Re: [1969912] Location of money? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jim,

You're right on the money. No pun intended.

It's actually called Tena's bar. I've never, ever heard that term outside Cooper discussion. I know the area, but *barely*. I've been through there once or twice.

How I found it back at the beginning of the year was by looking at old property maps from the 70s. I found the parcels owned by the Fazio Bros and knew the money was recovered there. Your wiki map is centered pretty much in the exact location. It was somewhere on that beach.

The last two photos appeared to be the same one, but if that's the place (and it does look like they're digging pretty deep) it is extremely helpful. I even had asked Ckret in a PM to find some photos of the find... we need as many of those type of pictures as we can get to really have an accurate understanding of what happpened and how the money got there.

Thanks again! Excellent stuff!!!!!


First page Previous page 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 ... 2251 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Skydiving History & Trivia

 


Search for (options)