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DB Cooper

 

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Robert99

Dec 8, 2012, 11:53 PM
Post #38776 of 55209 (33670 views)
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Re: [smokin99] I'd rather talk about Cooper than Cook and Blevins [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So why would just one single, person (fat or otherwise) make any difference in the overall weight of mega-ton aircraft? Haven't you ever been asked by a stew to take a different seat on a flight? There could be one of several reasons for that -- and I'm sure it's not because the weight of one single fat person is going to throw off the weight balance of an entire aircraft. Meyer Louie

I didn't say it would. That's why I was asking. She mentioned something about weight and asked for a volunteer from the first four rows to take a seat in the back. That's why the joke from folks in the back about their diets working.
From there it got me thinking about weight in the simulation and how Mr Shutter would know how much to account for luggage. I thought it was interesting enough to post. Obviously not...but since that is hardly a prerequisite for posting on this forum, I have no excuses other than......i just felt like posting it.
Robert99 gave me a reasonable answer, I appreciate it, and now i can sleep at night. Smile
Smokin, Your statement above clinches it for a center-of-gravity concern.

Do you remember the type of aircraft you were on or how many passengers it could seat? Was it a jet aircraft or did it have propellers? Presumably, smaller aircraft operated by some company for a major airline with the aircraft painted in the major airline's colors.

Also, in the NWA hijacking, no cargo or luggage (except briefcases and handbags which the passenger carried off) was unloaded in Seattle.

Robert99


skyjack71

Dec 9, 2012, 12:02 AM
Post #38777 of 55209 (33663 views)
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Re: [smokin99] Alcatraz [In reply to] Can't Post

I did check into that at one time.
Zona would have been 18-20 best I can guess. 9 yrs old last time Duane saw her.

The only time the name Zona was mentioned with an associate of Duane was with Ed.

1962 is when Duane was living as John Collins.

Ed Huran however it was spelled knew Duane from the past, but realized about 5 minutes into the conversation I knew nothing about Duane's back ground and just told me Duane would tell me when he was ready - but not to ever mention our conversation.

This is a pic of Ed taken in 1983 or 84. Blue eyes and scared face.
I never saw him with-out a shirt and jacket.

The only individual with whom the name Zona ever entered the conversation. Ed just told me Duane would tell me when he was ready.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Dec 9, 2012, 1:45 AM)
Attachments: Ed Hurand.jpg (298 KB)


377  (F 666)

Dec 9, 2012, 12:08 AM
Post #38778 of 55209 (33662 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Apparently the ship passed close enough to the body for the crew to get a good look at it and the clothes on it. One of the Anglin brothers was specifically named but I don't remember which one.

Pretty unlikely. Ships exiting the Golden Gate have to use a dredged channel through various shoals including the Potato Patch, whose official name is Four Fathom Bank. With all the wind, current and tidal flow vectors a ship must maintain a certain speed to have steerage. My fishing boat's top speed was about 7.5 knots. Every ship I ever saw outbound from SF between the GG Bridge and the SF Lightship (later replaced by the SF entrance buoy) was going significantly faster. The decks of ships are high above the water and their bridge (wheelhouse) is even higher. So an observer on a ship would be seeing a floating body from at least 40 feet up and they would be passing it at speeds exceeding 7.5 knots. Not a chance in hell that they could see much detail IMO.

http://www.epa.gov/...ging/sf-channel-bar/

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Dec 9, 2012, 12:18 AM)


377  (F 666)

Dec 9, 2012, 12:26 AM
Post #38779 of 55209 (33653 views)
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F 106s and SAGE [In reply to] Can't Post

See below. An excerpt from an article by an F 106 pilot. SAGE had serious performance and reliability problems.

377
Attachments: image.jpg (262 KB)


RobertMBlevins

Dec 9, 2012, 2:23 AM
Post #38780 of 55209 (33626 views)
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Re: [377] F 106s and SAGE [In reply to] Can't Post

Far stranger than the Cooper case is when Jack Benny and Rod Serling did a comedy bit about Twilight Zone, on the old Jack Benny Program.

Too weird for words, but good.

Rod Serling was once asked the difference between sci-fi and fantasy.

He said, "Fantasy is the impossible made probable. Science fiction is the probable made possible..."


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Dec 9, 2012, 2:32 AM)


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 8:38 AM
Post #38781 of 55209 (33587 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Reportedly, the body of one of the Anglin brothers was sighted on the day they disappeared just outside the Golden Gate Bridge"


"That debris from rafts was found in the surf on Angel Island " they believed pieces of the raft were found floating in the bay, not on Angel Island. could of been parts of there life preservers too!

according the the U.S. Marshal's office they only identified the uniform stating the body was floating face down. the raft was found the day after the escape (see photo's) two separate files.

also the FBI has clearly stated no cars were stolen after the escape, the memo says different.

I don't seem to recall reading anywhere were they admitted to finding a raft? according to the Marshal's office, these files were buried.

unsolved mysteries state the ship described Frank Morris floating....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5bh8hZWLKs


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Dec 9, 2012, 11:40 AM)
Attachments: raft.JPG (88.0 KB)
  raft 2.JPG (85.1 KB)


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 10:03 AM
Post #38782 of 55209 (33566 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

this information IMO seems to show a pattern, Alcatraz was a well known prison that was "escape proof " this would be a Embarrassment to the Government and FBI if proof was shown they made it.

now, a hijacking happens 9 years later that also is unsolved and ran by the FBI, I wonder what could really be found in these files? if they failed to disclose two key pieces of evidence in the escape, what is in the hijacking files? are they more comfortable allowing these cases to remain unsolved vs finding out what really happened?

History was also changed in the battle of Little Bighorn, for years we read the Government version of what happened and not the Indian version until the field caught on fire reveling the battleground exposing shell casings and leaning more towards the truth of the Indians version!!!

someone is not being 100% honest here IMO


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Dec 9, 2012, 10:08 AM)


georger

Dec 9, 2012, 10:21 AM
Post #38783 of 55209 (33553 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] F 106s, SAGE, and Tripe [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Far stranger than the Cooper case is when Jack Benny and Rod Serling did a comedy bit about Twilight Zone, on the old Jack Benny Program.

Too weird for words, but good.

Rod Serling was once asked the difference between sci-fi and fantasy.

He said, "Fantasy is the impossible made probable. Science fiction is the probable made possible...

"Just because you fail once doesn't mean you're gonna fail at everything..."

Marilyn Monroe
"

Or the gullible made more gullibuley ...

or the maldum made more fornaxy ...

Yep;. Too wierd for words.

Play it again Jethro. Say whatever comes out of your
mind.


(This post was edited by georger on Dec 9, 2012, 10:24 AM)


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 11:04 AM
Post #38784 of 55209 (33535 views)
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Re: [377] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Not a chance in hell that they could see much detail IMO."

I agree, unless they had Binoculars which are common on ships?
I think it's possible they cut Morris out of the equation. never
trust a criminal Cool

Morris had a IQ of 133 (Very superior range 99%ile)
the anglins had very little schooling but stuck together.
2 against one......


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Dec 9, 2012, 11:14 AM)


Robert99

Dec 9, 2012, 11:29 AM
Post #38785 of 55209 (33958 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"Not a chance in hell that they could see much detail IMO."

I agree, unless they had Binoculars which are common on ships?
I think it's possible they cut Morris out of the equation. never
trust a criminal Cool

Morris had a IQ of 133 (Very superior range 99%ile)
the anglins had very little schooling but stuck together.
2 against one......

Go to Wikipedia and search "Frank Morris (Prisoner)".

The escape was on June 11, 1962 and an FBI report is quoted as saying that "on July 17, 1962 a Norwegian ship spotted a body floating in the bay 20 miles northwest of the Golden Gate Bridge. Although they did not retrieve the body and did not report the sighting until October, they told the police the body was dressed in clothes that prisoners on Alcatraz used, and that the body resembled Frank Morris."

See the above article for more details about subsequent events.

Also, the above quote is apparently not the one I originally saw with the same general information.

Robert99


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 12:01 PM
Post #38786 of 55209 (33950 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
"Not a chance in hell that they could see much detail IMO."

I agree, unless they had Binoculars which are common on ships?
I think it's possible they cut Morris out of the equation. never
trust a criminal Cool

Morris had a IQ of 133 (Very superior range 99%ile)
the anglins had very little schooling but stuck together.
2 against one......

Go to Wikipedia and search "Frank Morris (Prisoner)".

The escape was on June 11, 1962 and an FBI report is quoted as saying that "on July 17, 1962 a Norwegian ship spotted a body floating in the bay 20 miles northwest of the Golden Gate Bridge. Although they did not retrieve the body and did not report the sighting until October, they told the police the body was dressed in clothes that prisoners on Alcatraz used, and that the body resembled Frank Morris."

See the above article for more details about subsequent events.

Also, the above quote is apparently not the one I originally saw with the same general information.

Robert99

I have seen the wiki comment, just threw me off when you said one of the anglins, I think it's possible they did Morris in before they left the Island, one body seen and then pieces found in the opposite direction in the area of Angel Island. based on the Marshal's evidence I believe there could be a possibility some of them could have made it, not saying they did,but, I guess it's no different than Cooper....based on these new findings. 30 days in the water, could you identify facial features?


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Dec 9, 2012, 12:04 PM)


RobertMBlevins

Dec 9, 2012, 12:13 PM
Post #38787 of 55209 (33938 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

Mr Shutter says in part:

Quote:
'if they failed to disclose two key pieces of evidence in the (Anglin/Morris Alcatraz) escape, what is in the hijacking files? are they more comfortable allowing these cases to remain unsolved vs finding out what really happened?

History was also changed in the battle of Little Bighorn, for years we read the Government version of what happened and not the Indian version until the field caught on fire reveling the battleground exposing shell casings and leaning more towards the truth of the Indians version!!!

someone is not being 100% honest here IMO...'

I thought it was the research they did at the battlefield, using metal detectors, etc that finally showed what happened at Big Horn. (Quick version: that some soldiers stayed with Custer, while others broke up individually, or in small groups, and tried to flee)

As far as Cooper, if the FBI is withholding a couple of bits of info, they really have no choice but to do so. Without a control factor to weed out the false claims, their job would be worse than it is now.

On Custer: This recent article by Smithsonian dot com is very good, very comprehensive, and is more of an Indian-side account. Eight page article and worth the read if you are BigHorn enthusiast.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Dec 9, 2012, 12:28 PM)


377  (F 666)

Dec 9, 2012, 12:14 PM
Post #38788 of 55209 (33936 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The escape was on June 11, 1962 and an FBI report is quoted as saying that "on July 17, 1962 a Norwegian ship spotted a body floating in the bay 20 miles northwest of the Golden Gate Bridge. Although they did not retrieve the body and did not report the sighting until October, they told the police the body was dressed in clothes that prisoners on Alcatraz used, and that the body resembled Frank Morris."

Something's not right about this alleged incident. There is no bay traversed by ships that lies 20 miles NW of the GG Bridge. Saw a body in June and reported it in October???

Quote:
... they told the police the body was dressed in clothes that prisoners on Alcatraz used, and that the body resembled Frank Morris."

If they were 20 miles NW of the GG they were beyond the dredged ship channel and would have been going full speed which was at least 16 knots and likely much faster. No way, even with binocs, could you see enough detail to say the body resembled someone. If they saw a body, especially one in obvious prison garb, they would surely have reported it right away.

Drakes Bay is roughly NW of SF but in decades of commercial fishing I've never seen a ship in it. It's shallow and out of the transit routes for ships rounding Pt Reyes. See chart image attached. Shipping lanes are marked in purple.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Dec 9, 2012, 12:19 PM)
Attachments: image.jpg (283 KB)


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 12:21 PM
Post #38789 of 55209 (33922 views)
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Re: [377] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

this is interesting: http://books.google.com/...20bridge&f=false


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 12:49 PM
Post #38790 of 55209 (33905 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

This conflict really escalated almost 30 years ago. In August 1983, a prairie fire swept over the entire battlefield, burning away 100 years of ungrazed grass and undergrowth. It revealed a treasure trove of artifacts and remains laying exposed on the charred surface. The National Park Service seized the opportunity to pursue archaeological examinations of the Little Bighorn. There were four of them - 1983, 1984, 1989 and 1994. They produced some results and theories which completely revised the traditional view of the battle.

even though the truth was coming out about the battle, the fire exposed the truth.

picture is of Custers scouts in 1903 revisiting


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Dec 9, 2012, 12:59 PM)
Attachments: indians.jpg (37.4 KB)


RobertMBlevins

Dec 9, 2012, 1:36 PM
Post #38791 of 55209 (33883 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a very good picture considering it was taken so long ago. I tried some enhancements on a couple of the individuals in the picture.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Dec 9, 2012, 1:48 PM)
Attachments: indianenhanced1.jpg (102 KB)
  indianenhanced2.jpg (60.9 KB)


377  (F 666)

Dec 9, 2012, 1:44 PM
Post #38792 of 55209 (33880 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

A ship in 1962 not having a radio? Baloney. Ships in 1962 all had radios and several types. When entering SF they would almost certainly have required a Bar Pilot. The Bar Pilot pickups outside the SF entrance are arranged by radio. It's illegal for ships to enter SF without one unless the Master is a certified SF Bar Pilot and I've never ever heard of a foreign ship captain having this ticket.

This ship story is so full of holes that I wonder if there is any useful info in it.

377


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 2:22 PM
Post #38793 of 55209 (33858 views)
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Re: [RobertMBlevins] Categories! [In reply to] Can't Post

it is a good photo, names are as follows: from left, Whiteman Runs Him, Hairy Moccasin, Curley and Goes Ahead. Curley
was said to have witnessed the battle.

377, I agree with your statements, seems that case also has it's fair share of speculation Cool


skyjack71

Dec 9, 2012, 6:13 PM
Post #38794 of 55209 (33774 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Alcatraz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I did check into that at one time.
Zona would have been 18-20 best I can guess. 9 yrs old last time Duane saw her.

The only time the name Zona was mentioned with an associate of Duane was with Ed.

1962 is when Duane was living as John Collins.

Ed Huran however it was spelled knew Duane from the past, but realized about 5 minutes into the conversation I knew nothing about Duane's back ground and just told me Duane would tell me when he was ready - but not to ever mention our conversation.

This is a pic of Ed taken in 1983 or 84. Blue eyes and scared face.
I never saw him with-out a shirt and jacket.

The only individual with whom the name Zona ever entered the conversation. Ed just told me Duane would tell me when he was ready.

I am going to attach 2 photos.
One of Ed and one of Anglin

There is a similarity in the chin and mouth - not many people hold their mouths like that. The ahape of the head is right.

The eyes are NOT. When I met Ed in 1978 he was sick and we had goneover so Duane could go get Ed's medication from the drug store. The last time I saw Ed was in Atlanta around 1984 - when I took the picture.
I commented I didn't remember his eyes being that blue. Perhaps he was wearing colored contacts.

The eyebrow eyelid area is different - but, someone escaping from Alcatraz would go to Mexico or S.A and get an eye job. My eyelids were done yrs go because of the droop and the surgeon wanted to raise the eyebrows - I just wanted the droop out - not to change my appearance.Smile Now I wish I had let him do it!

I explored this YEARS ago and was quickly dissed, so I did NOT go there again. I am just revisiting the things I have explored and NO ONE seemed interested. The fact that Duane aske Ed about Zona and now to find out one of these guys had Zona tattooed and Duane fathered a child named Zona.

Pure co-incidence I am sure, but I never actually look at the pics of Anglin that closely. I found a lot of co-incidences in all of this and so I have re-visited it just for the sake of BORING you guys.

Attached: Photo of Ed
Photo of Anglin
I no longer have the capability of putting them side by side in one photo so if someone would do that I will appreciate it.


The shape of the face and the chin and mouth and head are dead on, but that is all. What I found interesting is they escaped in 1962 and Duane was living as John in 1962. This picture has me thinking a lot about those yrs from 1962 to 1966 and why Duane spent 16 months in prison as John. I always thought that ODD!.

The only picture I have of Tommy is in my head. I even searched the local papers after he disappeared (I assume died, but never found an OBIT). My memory is good but not good enough to remember a face from the past and compare it to a picture from the past. He sure was shook-up about Duane making the confession and he is the one who threatened me. He knew Duane only as John until 1980. Tommy's complexion was medium to dark and he had dark hair - well, with a little help or touch up.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Dec 9, 2012, 7:42 PM)
Attachments: Ed cropped blkwht.jpg (23.2 KB)
  Anglin cropped.jpg (25.7 KB)


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 6:34 PM
Post #38795 of 55209 (33760 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Alcatraz [In reply to] Can't Post

your not trying to say these two are one in the same? whats next, are you going to solve the Cooper case and Alcatraz along with JFK????????????

come on Jo glide back down to earth Cool

John and Clarence Anglin would be 47 & 48 in 1978
1984 they would be in there early 50's.


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Dec 9, 2012, 6:52 PM)


Guru312  (C 6814)

Dec 9, 2012, 6:59 PM
Post #38796 of 55209 (33735 views)
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Something new for you folks [In reply to] Can't Post

I can not vouch for the authenticity of this but there is lots of good reading... FBI, Cook and DB Cooper

http://cryptome.org/.../retired-seals-2.htm


(This post was edited by Guru312 on Dec 9, 2012, 7:05 PM)


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 7:09 PM
Post #38797 of 55209 (33726 views)
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Re: [Guru312] Something new for you folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can not vouch for the authenticity of this but there is lots of good reading... FBI, Cook and DB Cooper

http://cryptome.org/.../retired-seals-2.htm

should be simple to verify, is that really cooks email, I don't know?


skyjack71

Dec 9, 2012, 7:38 PM
Post #38798 of 55209 (33703 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Alcatraz [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
your not trying to say these two are one in the same? whats next, are you going to solve the Cooper case and Alcatraz along with JFK????????????

come on Jo glide back down to earth Cool

John and Clarence Anglin would be 47 & 48 in 1978
1984 they would be in there early 50's.

Referencing the brothers - did YOU even READ what the FRIGGIN HELL I wrote. I mention that Anglin was only 31 and Zona - Duane's daughter was maybe 18 to 20 - so NOW do YOU GET IT!

Familia features. NO ED could NOT have been one of the ANGLINS - WHAT I WAS TRYING TO TALK ABOUT WAS ALL OF THE ZONA CONNECTIONS.

I also just went back and re-read the post and it says NOTHING about Ed being one of the ESCAPED Anglins. I was pointing out the FAMILIA features and the connection to the name ZONA in three men.

EXCUSE ME FOR LIVING - I CAN'T SAY ONE WORD THAT YOU DO NOT TAKE OUT OF CONTEXT.

IF you cannot follow my ramblings then DO not make any replies or snide remarks - if you do NOT understand them - pm me and I will explain it in DETAIL. I FOUND NOTHING in the post indicating that Ed was one of the ESCAPED ANGLINS - but the connections to ZONA.

Just tracking Zona! The connection of ED to Zona and I have even stated perhaps co-incidence - but ZONA was NOT a common name and I HAVE another reason there is no reason to inform the LIKES of what this reason is - !!!


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Dec 9, 2012, 7:51 PM)


RobertMBlevins

Dec 9, 2012, 7:44 PM
Post #38799 of 55209 (33695 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Something new for you folks [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I can not vouch for the authenticity of this but there is lots of good reading... FBI, Cook and DB Cooper

http://cryptome.org/.../retired-seals-2.htm

should be simple to verify, is that really cooks email, I don't know?

Yes it is. Tried mailing him at that hotmail once. No answer. No surprise. Smile

Side Note: What I call the Christiansen Report is ready to go. Fourteen pages of text, sixteen 8.5x11 photos (with explanatory text) and copies of certain documents. Goes out to Agent Eng at the Seattle FBI tomorrow morning, registered mail, etc. *The information in the report has been updated to the most current we have on Christiansen, the witnesses, and their testimony.*

*This Really Means: 'Any screw ups that ended up in the book were not used, just our latest information, all of which was verified for accuracy.' Smile


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Dec 10, 2012, 12:10 AM)


mrshutter45

Dec 9, 2012, 7:48 PM
Post #38800 of 55209 (33704 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Alcatraz [In reply to] Can't Post

"I am going to attach 2 photos.
One of Ed and one of Anglin

There is a similarity in the chin and mouth - not many people hold their mouths like that. The ahape of the head is right. "

what exactly is your intention to this description?

"IF you cannot follow my ramblings" then I must follow everyone's ramblings? rambling is not truth Jo!!

where is the mention of "I mention that Anglin was only 31"??


(This post was edited by mrshutter45 on Dec 9, 2012, 8:31 PM)


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