Recognize him from what? The composite that people on the flight can't agree was accurate?
Doubt the flight crew would recognize him if he hadn't worked with them.
My better 1/2 has worked as flight crew for a major for almost 30 years now...the number of co-workers one comes in contact with is to overwhelming to remember many of then with any great detail.
I'm not saying Cooper worked for NWA, just that he 'could' have and quite easily gone unnoticed as an ex or current employee.
Sure there is a 'chance' he could have been recognized, slim but a chance.
Gee maybe he should have dyed his hair and maybe worn sunglasses as a disguise....oh wait.
Its quite obvious Cooper could not have been recognised by anyone at NWA, Boeing, and in all the other venues you and Blevins cite.
Happy now?
Let's move on to carbon isotopes on the tie.
What's your dictum about that?
I think you're mistaking me for someone who gives a shit, I've never sided with Mr. Blevins on any theory or candidate.
I do appreciate the legwork he's put into his theory though, and respect how he shrugs off the constant inconsequential childish banter you seem to put forth against him.
But I digress, to answer your post;
~ thanks for agreeing that it's obvious it would have been difficult to recognize someone in that instance under those circumstances.
~ Yes, I'm pretty much always happy.
~ carbon isotopes on the tie: As with the DNA & Fingerprint 'evidence', because of the seemingly poor chain of custody at this point it would likely have little value in excluding any-one's favorite candidate. INcluding one would be a million to one shot but I guess it's possible.
It's about someone recognizing him, not the other way around. So, how about the crew he worked with? Isn't there a chance he/she/they would recognize him? And they would not be the only ones at the job site Cooper would have had to interact with? How did he get the job in the first place?
In reply to:
Recognize him from what? The composite that people on the flight can't agree was accurate?
Doubt the flight crew would recognize him if he hadn't worked with them.
My better 1/2 has worked as flight crew for a major for almost 30 years now...the number of co-workers one comes in contact with is to overwhelming to remember many of then with any great detail.
I'm not saying Cooper worked for NWA, just that he 'could' have and quite easily gone unnoticed as an ex or current employee.
Sure there is a 'chance' he could have been recognized, slim but a chance.
Gee maybe he should have dyed his hair and maybe worn sunglasses as a disguise....oh wait.
Your point is well taken. My theory works if one assumes that the composite is accurate enough, and there doesn't seem to be much consensus on that. It amazes me that Tina talked to this guy for nearly 5 hours and she didn't come up with a more definitive composite. She had opporunity to study Cooper for hours. I'm just surprised the composite she came up with is not more defninitive. MeyerLouie
It's about someone recognizing him, not the other way around. So, how about the crew he worked with? Isn't there a chance he/she/they would recognize him? And they would not be the only ones at the job site Cooper would have had to interact with? How did he get the job in the first place?
In reply to:
Recognize him from what? The composite that people on the flight can't agree was accurate?
Doubt the flight crew would recognize him if he hadn't worked with them.
My better 1/2 has worked as flight crew for a major for almost 30 years now...the number of co-workers one comes in contact with is to overwhelming to remember many of then with any great detail.
I'm not saying Cooper worked for NWA, just that he 'could' have and quite easily gone unnoticed as an ex or current employee.
Sure there is a 'chance' he could have been recognized, slim but a chance.
Gee maybe he should have dyed his hair and maybe worn sunglasses as a disguise....oh wait.
Your point is well taken. My theory works if one assumes that the composite is accurate enough, and there doesn't seem to be much consensus on that. It amazes me that Tina talked to this guy for nearly 5 hours and she didn't come up with a more definitive composite. She had opportunity to study Cooper for hours. I'm just surprised the composite she came up with is not more definitive. MeyerLouie
Quite possibly she had issues regarding the stress of the situation that could have clouded accurate recollection.
That being said, it's often difficult for victims to pick out a perp from an actual photograph line up...actual physical evidence is obviously more reliable and nearly indisputable. One has to wonder if the crime scene would have been processed with the methodology prominently used today, the investigation wouldn't be long since over.
It's about someone recognizing him, not the other way around. So, how about the crew he worked with? Isn't there a chance he/she/they would recognize him? And they would not be the only ones at the job site Cooper would have had to interact with? How did he get the job in the first place?
In reply to:
Recognize him from what? The composite that people on the flight can't agree was accurate?
Doubt the flight crew would recognize him if he hadn't worked with them.
My better 1/2 has worked as flight crew for a major for almost 30 years now...the number of co-workers one comes in contact with is to overwhelming to remember many of then with any great detail.
I'm not saying Cooper worked for NWA, just that he 'could' have and quite easily gone unnoticed as an ex or current employee.
Sure there is a 'chance' he could have been recognized, slim but a chance.
Gee maybe he should have dyed his hair and maybe worn sunglasses as a disguise....oh wait.
Your point is well taken. My theory works if one assumes that the composite is accurate enough, and there doesn't seem to be much consensus on that. It amazes me that Tina talked to this guy for nearly 5 hours and she didn't come up with a more definitive composite. She had opporunity to study Cooper for hours. I'm just surprised the composite she came up with is not more defninitive. MeyerLouie
don't forget Florence had another sketch made that is different from all the others, she claimed they really didn't look like him, round and round we goooooooooo
It's about someone recognizing him, not the other way around. So, how about the crew he worked with? Isn't there a chance he/she/they would recognize him? And they would not be the only ones at the job site Cooper would have had to interact with? How did he get the job in the first place?
In reply to:
Recognize him from what? The composite that people on the flight can't agree was accurate?
Doubt the flight crew would recognize him if he hadn't worked with them.
My better 1/2 has worked as flight crew for a major for almost 30 years now...the number of co-workers one comes in contact with is to overwhelming to remember many of then with any great detail.
I'm not saying Cooper worked for NWA, just that he 'could' have and quite easily gone unnoticed as an ex or current employee.
Sure there is a 'chance' he could have been recognized, slim but a chance.
Gee maybe he should have dyed his hair and maybe worn sunglasses as a disguise....oh wait.
Your point is well taken. My theory works if one assumes that the composite is accurate enough, and there doesn't seem to be much consensus on that. It amazes me that Tina talked to this guy for nearly 5 hours and she didn't come up with a more definitive composite. She had opporunity to study Cooper for hours. I'm just surprised the composite she came up with is not more defninitive. MeyerLouie
Of course, the position of candidate-pushers would be just as Jo and Blevins have stated it: "Recognize him from what? The composite that people on the flight can't agree was accurate? " Ckret said the opposite here. He said there was 'remarkable' agreement.
Blevins even goes to the length of suggesting optical illusions in an airplane cabin in order to rule out FBI profile height! That is silly.
What does anyone here at DZ know about this from personal knowledge - nothing. The most anyone here can offer is personal bias and personal anecdote/conjecture, eg. Airtwardo.
So, one can buy into the candidate-pushers stance, or you can believe Ckret.
That is the choice.
KC stood the best chance of being recognised because he was an NWA employee.
Bottom line for me, I dont trust ANYTHING Blevins says, and Geoff Gray isnt far behind in spite of him having read SOME FBI files - some files were not available to him vs. Ckret who had access also.
Can we solve this? No, apparently not. Especially not here in the face of massive nullification going on daily.
But as a working thesis who would you chose? Blevins or Ckret? Gray doesnt even say as a fact: the FBI sketches are wrong! Gray has never said THAT! All Gray has offered is the statement of one passenger who sat across from Cooper. Ckret said this one passenger diverted from everyone else.
And which graphics are others using when asking crew members to make comparisons against! ? The FBI sketches. (not photos of KC, Duane, etc).
Flo's independent sketch was more like the FBI Cooper sketch, than any other photo or sketch of anyone else ... it has always been either the FBI sketch or her own private sketch that she has chosen-agreed to compare against ...
We cannot dismiss 5'8" vs. 6 foot plus just because Mr. Blevins does not like (or agree to use) "science". The Reverend Blevins, self professed preacher, will always invoke his own rules - and he advertises that fact of his personality with every 'Marilyn' post he makes and relishes in, here. Blevins is all about "nullification" in ever sense.
(This post was edited by georger on Dec 4, 2012, 1:55 PM)
Dec 4, 2012, 1:48 PM
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MeyerLouie starts with:
Quote:
Your point is well taken. My theory works if one assumes that the composite is accurate enough, and there doesn't seem to be much consensus on that. It amazes me that Tina talked to this guy for nearly 5 hours and she didn't come up with a more definitive composite. She had opportunity to study Cooper for hours. I'm just surprised the composite she came up with is not more definitive. MeyerLouie
airtwardo says:
Quote:
Quite possibly she had issues regarding the stress of the situation that could have clouded accurate recollection.
Cooper had a bomb, regardless if it were fake or not, Tina and the rest of the crewmembers might have had other things going through their head rather then taking a deep breath and "studying" the suspect to get an accurate description.
Put yourself in their place. The night before Thanksgiving and they might be blown up in the sky and never see their families again. For all they knew they might not have had the chance to give that description. It would be similar to looking at the barrel of the gun and all you see is the threat staring you in the face.
Put yourself in their place. The night before Thanksgiving and they might be blown up in the sky and never see their families again. For all they knew they might not have had the chance to give that description. It would be similar to looking at the barrel of the gun and all you see is the threat staring you in the face. Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae.
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability. He needed an intelligent cooperative (reliable) partner/hostage.
(This post was edited by georger on Dec 4, 2012, 2:10 PM)
Put yourself in their place. The night before Thanksgiving and they might be blown up in the sky and never see their families again. For all they knew they might not have had the chance to give that description. It would be similar to looking at the barrel of the gun and all you see is the threat staring you in the face.
Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae.
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability.
She was probably focusing on DA BOMB... not the numbnutz who was holding it
Put yourself in their place. The night before Thanksgiving and they might be blown up in the sky and never see their families again. For all they knew they might not have had the chance to give that description. It would be similar to looking at the barrel of the gun and all you see is the threat staring you in the face.
Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae.
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability.
She was probably focusing on DA BOMB... not the numbnutz who was holding it To her Cooper is the bomb - the trigger. She calmed him down several times during crucial periods - She deserves a purple heart!
(The stress of it all shows up later. Thats how the endocrine system [shock] works)
(This post was edited by georger on Dec 4, 2012, 2:14 PM)
Put yourself in their place. The night before Thanksgiving and they might be blown up in the sky and never see their families again. For all they knew they might not have had the chance to give that description. It would be similar to looking at the barrel of the gun and all you see is the threat staring you in the face.
Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae.
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability.
She was probably focusing on DA BOMB... not the numbnutz who was holding it
To her Cooper is the bomb - the trigger. She calmed him down several times during crucial periods - She deserves a purple heart!
(The stress of it all shows up later. Thats how the endocrine system [shock] works) Gee what would ANY of the rest of us know about things like that.
Put yourself in their place. The night before Thanksgiving and they might be blown up in the sky and never see their families again. For all they knew they might not have had the chance to give that description. It would be similar to looking at the barrel of the gun and all you see is the threat staring you in the face.
Utter nonsense. Hyperbolae.
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability.
She was probably focusing on DA BOMB... not the numbnutz who was holding it
To her Cooper is the bomb - the trigger. She calmed him down several times during crucial periods - She deserves a purple heart!
(The stress of it all shows up later. Thats how the endocrine system [shock] works)
Gee what would ANY of the rest of us know about things like that. Gee - you should. You know combat, you're trained, you know about ptsd, and for all I know you are a retired PhD, Dr., EMT, Survival Training expert, etc etc ... not to mention you are one of the most intelligent people here. Granted you are a bit cynical and can have an edge but .... but you are someone who would sit Farflung on your knee, pat his head, and take hinm out to dinner! -------------- ........ and you dont like dairy farms! Its quite obvious from your posts here over time you have a solid technical background and a lot of common sense.
We have a difference of opinion based on different backgrounds I guess ...
To me Cooper is a strategist picking and chosing his environment which will determine his opportunities as it relates to control ... setting the stage for the hijacking. So I tend to look at his choices. He didnt even want the passengers alerted or informed - did it with notes and choices of people and let them do all the work. (very much like Ckret described)
Cooper motivated by use of an alleged bomb and then chose people, gave instructions, and coerced people by means of the alleged bomb. These are psychological threats vs actual harm/damage. One core question is did his isntructions amount to having technical knowledge and how much - Farflung seems to think he didnt have much (an ordinary person could give an identical level of instructions). But one of the crew seemed convinced - made the remark "he must have the manual back there!". But the crime rest on psychologoical terrorism vs. actual physical damage to anyone.
Part of my background is in psychology, criminology, and medicine, test design, Dict of Occupational Titles, etc. as it applies to military and civilian operations. (actual work experience)
You may, and evidently do, have a different point of view - even though you have never specified the 'keys' you see, if any. Maybe yous ee the whole as more random than I do.
BTW: this isnt personal. I hope you know that.
(This post was edited by georger on Dec 4, 2012, 8:52 PM)
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability. He needed an intelligent cooperative (reliable) partner/hostage...'
Were you a passenger on Flight 305? Did you see this type of interaction happen between Mucklow and the hijacker? This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard you make here. You are talking like you are a shrink, and were actually present to see this. Strictly assumption on your part. Tina went along because it was either that, or get BLOWN UP. Hey, Mr Science...ever consider that maybe Cooper just liked blondes?
Wasn't it only Flo Schaffner who actually got a look inside the briefcase? If so, she described it as some red sticks, about eight inches long, a 'bunch of wires,' and a battery 'larger than you would put into a flashlight'.
That doesn't sound like an overly detailed description to me. I'm not sure about Tina Mucklow, but Flo Schaffner has said several times that she was scared to death the whole time. Rataczak stated in his interview for Blast that the flight crew seriously considered the idea that Cooper might set the bomb to go off remotely after he jumped...or that it could just go off on its own, etc. He made a comment on that after Skipp Porteous asked him about the delays attempted on the ground in Seattle by the FBI:
Quote:
'Those were times when we were afraid we might only hear one syllable of the word ‘bang.’ We might only hear the first letter or two of it.' (Refers to Cooper becoming so angry he might set off the bomb)
Sounds to me like you've fantasized some stock assumptions and a few favorite stereotypes to describe the emotions of the stews. Didn't both Flo and Tina quit the airline shortly afterward? One went into a nunnery and was probably never the same again, the other's hands still shake when she talks about the hijacking. Sounds to me like both caught a bad case of PTSD. And that was before they had the vaccinnation for it. Oh, wait...(*laughs*)
(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Dec 4, 2012, 9:40 PM)
Dec 4, 2012, 8:45 PM
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3. Automatically give anyone who presents a subject a truth test - within a few days.
ALL I want now is to know WHO the man was in Salt Lake City and what his connection was to the past of Duane L. Weber. I truely believe the answer to that ONE question will provide the answers to all other questions regarding Weber.
The man was DEFINITELY wearing a uniform of some type.
He worked on the grounds and in the visitors center in Sept of 1979. The name of the man and his background will answer a lot of questions - what was so difficult about this one thing I asked of the FBI?
Jo, Are you willing to take the first truth test?
It is very unlikely that anyone working on the "grounds" (you presumably mean "Temple Square") or the visitors center in Salt Lake City would be wearing a "uniform of some kind".
He would probably be conservatively dressed and wearing a name tag, but that is not a "uniform".
Robert99
Jo Weber apparently wrote and inserted the following:
I more than anyone here needs resolution and soon! Very tired and I don't know why I drive myself back everynight hoping some thing has happened and then go to bed with all of the qestions driving me insane.
I am already crazy, but I need to be set free and someone to help me live what is left of my life with dignity....I just want to be ME and I want to die with MY soul entact. I want to know what if feels like to crawl into bed a normal person and for there to be some holding me before I go. Some one who know that I have done all I can do and that I gave it the best yrs of my life. I tried and I tried and now my life feels so useless because I accomplished NOTHING of what may be the only true story never be told about Weber.
person - free of the past.
I can answer that one with a resounding YES I will be the first on to take a truth test (make sure Jerry Thomas in NO where around me and that NONE of the questions are from him.
That man had on some type of uniform - perhaps a music director's or band director or even a choir leader. The case appears to be one that would carry a musical instrument.
I am game, but it would be so nice to locate information on that man before hand...and other pictures of this man and maybe a name.
Dec 4, 2012, 8:54 PM
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Someone made some alterations to a post and made it sound LIKE it was me saying those words - it WAS NOT.
Jo Weber apparently wrote and inserted the following:
I more than anyone here needs resolution and soon! Very tired and I don't know why I drive myself back everynight hoping some thing has happened and then go to bed with all of the qestions driving me insane.
I am already crazy, but I need to be set free and someone to help me live what is left of my life with dignity....I just want to be ME and I want to die with MY soul entact. I want to know what if feels like to crawl into bed a normal person and for there to be some holding me before I go. Some one who know that I have done all I can do and that I gave it the best yrs of my life. I tried and I tried and now my life feels so useless because I accomplished NOTHING of what may be the only true story never be told about Weber. NOTE IT WAS SIGNED Person free of the Past - and JT does NOT post here anymore.
I did NOT write the words in green above. Those sound like -words JT would make - NOT Jo Weber. I want to know how someone could do this. I would never say something like "I want to die with MY soul entact" and some of the things said afterwards.
Read the syntac - "crawl in to bed" "some one who know that" "my life feels so useless" "accomplished NOTHING"
I do not know how this was done, but it is clearly NOT my wording.
Note the wording below the line which indicated I would take the test, but stating I wanted JT NO where near me - that part is JO WEBER. Looks like Jerry has learned how to spook a post. He is so obvious!
(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Dec 4, 2012, 9:18 PM)
Dec 4, 2012, 8:56 PM
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Jo: If you want to identify people from pictures, people need more than the city they live in and that the pic was taken more than thirty years ago. You have to narrow it down more than that. You are not even reaching a great number of people by posting these requests at Dropzone. I've heard about some new website that can take a picture you upload to them and compare it to similar images they've catalogued from the internet. I will check on this.
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability. He needed an intelligent cooperative (reliable) partner/hostage...'
Were you a passenger on Flight 305? Did you see this type of interaction happen between Mucklow and the hijacker?
"Just because you fail once doesn't mean you're gonna fail at everything..."
Marilyn Monroe
No and neither were you. Especially - neither were you! But Ive had intimate contact with people who worked on this case ... in the aftermath.
Now go ahead and build you Straw Man while I do paper work - I will come back later to see your latest straw man concoction based on your credentials as a failed book writer, lay preacher, house cleaner, sci fi book pub;lisher, writing coach, whatever else youa dvertise on the internet you will do for money, and man about town -
You are merging recognition vs recall. Recall is the issue, not if the brain records in the first place!
Tina wasnt on her cell phone texting and never saw the train that hit her@!
Tina's recall of the bomb was detailed. Cooper chose her because of her intelligence and predictability/reliability. He needed an intelligent cooperative (reliable) partner/hostage...'
Were you a passenger on Flight 305? Did you see this type of interaction happen between Mucklow and the hijacker? This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard you make here. You are talking like you are a shrink, and were actually present to see this. Strictly assumption on your part. Tina went along because it was either that, or get BLOWN UP.
Wasn't it only Flo Schaffner who actually got a look inside the briefcase? If so, she described it as some red sticks, about eight inches long, a 'bunch of wires,' and a battery 'larger than you would put into a flashlight'.
That doesn't sound like an overly detailed description to me. I'm not sure about Tina Mucklow, but Flo Schaffner has said several times that she was scared to death the whole time. Rataczak stated in his interview for Blast that the flight crew seriously considered the idea that Cooper might set the bomb to go off remotely after he jumped...or that it could just go off on its own, etc. He made a comment on that after Skipp Porteous asked him about the delays attempted on the ground in Seattle by the FBI:
Quote:
'Those were times when we were afraid we might only hear one syllable of the word ‘bang.’ We might only hear the first letter or two of it.' (Refers to Cooper becoming so angry he might set off the bomb)
Blevins: reading the rest of your tripe above, you make errors of fact above. READ THE THREAD. Get the facts of this case under your belt and come back in 20 years!
'Blevins: reading the rest of your tripe above, you make errors of fact above. READ THE THREAD. Get the facts of this case under your belt and come back in 20 years!...'
This thread does not have all the answers. If it did, the case would be solved already. I didn't SAY Flo was the only one to see the bomb. I ASKED if she was the only one. In any case, my previous comment on your assumptions, fantasies, etc stands. Stop trying to shrink the stews. You weren't there. Tripe? You are the one slaughtering the beef and cooking up the whole stomach here, not me.
I'm happy to hear you had 'intimate relations' with people involved in the case. Hope you used protection, or if they were kinda homely...that you had a few drinks beforehand.
(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Dec 4, 2012, 9:35 PM)
Dec 4, 2012, 9:14 PM
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Jo: If you want to identify people from pictures, people need more than the city they live in and that the pic was taken more than thirty years ago. You have to narrow it down more than that. You are not even reaching a great number of people by posting these requests at Dropzone. I've heard about some new website that can take a picture you upload to them and compare it to similar images they've catalogued from the internet. I will check on this.
Robert: Totally useless - I took the photo and it has been widely distributed on the internet. There would be NO other photos of that man on the chapel grounds to compare with. I have NO idea where YOU got the idea this was even possible.
I think the answer to Tina ... is in the rest of her life.
I have been an instructor in a few adventure sports and a participant in many more. The USAF gave me 8 years of putting highly trained MOSTLY college boys in life threatening situations ( with the caveat that I could not break them beyond repair) while never forgetting I was there to impart my knowledge of staying alive no matter where and under what situations they might find themselves in.
People respond to stress and the influx of adrenaline in far different ways.
Some of us LIVE for that... others.... end up in a convent.
I think she did a whole lot of praying on that plane that night. I think Dean Martin could have been the hijacker and she would not have been able to describe him. Her focus was not on him... it was on just how close she, as a young woman, could very well end up not growing one day older.
(This post was edited by Amazon on Dec 4, 2012, 9:24 PM)
Blevins notary.jpg
