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Robert99

Oct 17, 2012, 2:50 PM
Post #36951 of 52724 (19072 views)
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Re: [Amazon] Politics outside of Speakers Corner [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I watched it live.. and noted that the voice feed had Felixbreathing pretty hard when the spin was going on. the video from the cameras he was wearing he was more in a flat spin on his back...not good not good at allUnimpressed

Trust me... getting unstable at high speeds can REALLLLY hurt. I have managed to do that a few times at speeds in excess of 250 MPH...Spins can kill... I know of more than one skydiver that did not make it after entering a spin and passing out Unsure

Do you have a link to the cameras that he was wearing? I didn't see any video from them. And is there a link to the YouTube or Discovery Channel video?

Robert99


Farflung

Oct 17, 2012, 3:37 PM
Post #36952 of 52724 (19066 views)
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Where On Earth? [In reply to] Can't Post

Because I care too much, I have generously researched the landing zone where Felix the skydiver, the wonderful, wonderful skydiver; touched down.

After lifting off from the Roswell Intergalactic Airport and Global Freak Welcome Center, which has an elevation of 3671 feet, he landed at a spot which appears to be within 4440 to 4460 feet. That’s about 779 feet higher than where he launched.

I know this will be appreciated by many on this thread because it is about accuracy, validation, cross checking, source attribution and open source reviews which are utter unknowns on this thread, so I don’t know where I was going with that. Sorry, my bad.
Attachments: Felix LZ.jpg (158 KB)


mrshutter45

Oct 17, 2012, 3:52 PM
Post #36953 of 52724 (19064 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

It should be very simple to prove John was connected to Boeing, tax returns, employment history, w-2's etc etc.
why would you not pursue a lead such as this?

"Could the 1971 SKYJACKING of a Boeing 727 have been - a publicity stunt?"
I'm guessing this was a joke?


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 4:26 PM
Post #36954 of 52724 (19059 views)
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Re: [Amazon] Politics outside of Speakers Corner [In reply to] Can't Post

Felix exceeded the speed of light. MSNBC says so, so it must be true. The Lorentz contractions in that spin must have been awful. I know Georger will appreciate that joke.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...fpost-cards-headline

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Oct 17, 2012, 4:27 PM)


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 4:35 PM
Post #36955 of 52724 (19055 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Politics outside of Speakers Corner [In reply to] Can't Post

Amazon wrote
Quote:
I watched it live.. and noted that the voice feed had Felixbreathing pretty hard when the spin was going on. the video from the cameras he was wearing he was more in a flat spin on his back...not good not good at all

Trust me... getting unstable at high speeds can REALLLLY hurt.

Been there Amazon. Got to do a test jump for SSK/CYPRES. I was outfitted with a black box full of pressure sensors and recorders. Exited from a firewalled C 130, est 270 knots.

I now know what its like to be put through a spin and tuble cycle in a washing machine. Whew.

They wanted data to see if a Cypres could be tricked into firing high in a violent spin tumble.

377


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Oct 17, 2012, 4:57 PM
Post #36956 of 52724 (19046 views)
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Re: [Amazon] Politics outside of Speakers Corner [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Trust me when I say this.... Certain mods get their panties all twisted up when ANYONE dares to make a post with anything about GUNS RELIGION OR POLITICS outside of the forum called Speakers Corner.

It all stems back to the free for all that was a forum called TalkBack. The powers that be split that forum into the Bonfire and Speakers Corner years ago by the mods here at the Animal Farm.

I once had the audacity to put a link to what one mod deemed to be an offensive political nature to his way of thinking in my sigline.. and he banned my sigline for life.

I try to be a bit cooler about it, but as anyone who has been around long enough knows, I have my limits.

At this point there is no excuse in this thread and the next occurrence by anyone will be grounds for a banning. Pretty long one too.


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 5:04 PM
Post #36957 of 52724 (19042 views)
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Re: [quade] Politics outside of Speakers Corner [In reply to] Can't Post

Quade wrote
Quote:
next occurrence by anyone will be grounds for a banning. Pretty long one too.

If bans for misbehavior can be "pretty long" don't you think Snowmman's ban has reached that point? How about letting him back Quade. He can help steer this drifting forum back into DBC related stuff.

We need more about Ted Braden and Sheridan Peterson to offset the Duane Weber and Bob Knoss subject matter dominance.

377


Farflung

Oct 17, 2012, 5:25 PM
Post #36958 of 52724 (19035 views)
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GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

It turns out that a stabilization device was prototyped around the time of Kittinger’s jump. It was a three-axis unit called the GASP (Gyro Augmented Stabilization Pack) and is surprisingly small. Attached is a PDF file from the gubberment, with all kinds of declassification stamps to give bonerz to some, and it was published at Wright-Patterson AFB, where the Roswell Alien bodies and UFOs are stored, so the conspiracy psychos will have something to make them happy too.

http://www.dtic.mil/...lltext/u2/295627.pdf

It seems like this would have been a nice R&D device to have gone up in the Zenith with Felix. All the bombast and bluster this thread can create (and it creates mammoth amounts), won’t change the laws of physics, no matter how many times one makes claims to the contrary. In near space, you could send a contortionist, with eleven foot arms and legs, in a precise spread eagle configuration, and would accomplish nothing more than a bowling ball or sack of kitty litter could in regard to stabilization. But don’t let that detract from any barstool rebuttals; no.

I thought such a device could be spun up with some on-board gas with an inertial decay rate that is aligned with the increase of air density where it peters out at an altitude where there are hundreds of thousands of data points for control. Instead of Kittinger, Felix and some U-2 and SR-71 crewmembers who represent all the ‘jumps’ above the Armstrong Altitude.

I’ve gone the extra mile, once again and updated the name: Freefall Ancillary Recovery Force. I feel this name better reflects things that are both manly and desirable, which will still allow some (code for: chicks) to GASP. You’re welcome.
Attachments: GASP.jpg (105 KB)


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 5:44 PM
Post #36959 of 52724 (19028 views)
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Re: [Farflung] GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

farf wrote
Quote:
I thought such a device could be spun up with some on-board gas with an inertial decay rate that is aligned with the increase of air density where it peters out at an altitude where there are hundreds of thousands of data points for control.

Cool!

I once bought some modules labeled gyro at a DOD surplus auction. They were hermetically sealed square module cans with TIGHTLY wound powerful clocksprings in them for driving a rotating mass. A fuseable link allowed the spring to be released and the gyro rotor spun up. A short blast of 28 VDC aircraft power would melt the link and the gyro would spin up very very quickly and remain spinning fast for quite a few minutes. Gyro position outputs were taken from a potentiometer and output through a plug. Seems a lot simpler than a gas drive. I later was told that these were used in air to air missiles. They could stand ready for duty for centuries given their simplicity and dry nitrogen gas filled can environment.

I heard you like spinners Farf, so I knew this would be of interest.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Oct 17, 2012, 5:45 PM)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 17, 2012, 8:53 PM
Post #36960 of 52724 (18984 views)
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Re: [quade] Politics outside of Speakers Corner [In reply to] Can't Post

Can we at least get rid of any thing: Not Cooper related, proven lie, PA, distraction form the subject, and remind the posters there are other forums and threads for Felix's GREAT Skydiving accomplishment if Height and Speed, as well as their dick measuring contests?

Matt


georger

Oct 17, 2012, 8:59 PM
Post #36961 of 52724 (18998 views)
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Re: [377] GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
farf wrote
Quote:
I thought such a device could be spun up with some on-board gas with an inertial decay rate that is aligned with the increase of air density where it peters out at an altitude where there are hundreds of thousands of data points for control.

Cool!

I once bought some modules labeled gyro at a DOD surplus auction. They were hermetically sealed square module cans with TIGHTLY wound powerful clocksprings in them for driving a rotating mass. A fuseable link allowed the spring to be released and the gyro rotor spun up. A short blast of 28 VDC aircraft power would melt the link and the gyro would spin up very very quickly and remain spinning fast for quite a few minutes. Gyro position outputs were taken from a potentiometer and output through a plug. Seems a lot simpler than a gas drive. I later was told that these were used in air to air missiles. They could stand ready for duty for centuries given their simplicity and dry nitrogen gas filled can environment.

I heard you like spinners Farf, so I knew this would be of interest.

377

The pdf is interesting. This was designed to address
stability issues for space workers in zero-gravity,
....eg. Hubble telescope work comes to
mind. Not sure this has any applicability to skydivers
or if that kind of device would even be allowed in
terms of setting records? The weight (mass) of the
device would be a consideration in terms of velocity
- accepted velocity records - 210lbs of person/ 500
lbs of gyro! New record: mach 3! Laugh

They could come up with a 'gyro assisted catagory' ?
(weight limit 2000 lbs.)


(This post was edited by georger on Oct 17, 2012, 9:03 PM)
Attachments: z1.JPG (58.6 KB)
  za1.JPG (40.4 KB)
  zb1.JPG (50.6 KB)


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 9:06 PM
Post #36962 of 52724 (18994 views)
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Re: [georger] GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

Who is to say DBC didn't have an inertial stability augmentation device? Makes as much sense as a back brace designed to vibrate upon receiving VOR radial signals. Wink

How about some support for a Snowmman pardon or at least parole?
He doesn't get distracted like we do. It would be good for the forum.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Oct 17, 2012, 9:08 PM)


georger

Oct 17, 2012, 9:10 PM
Post #36963 of 52724 (18991 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Politics outside of Speakers Corner [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Can we at least get rid of any thing: Not Cooper related, proven lie, PA, distraction form the subject, and remind the posters there are other forums and threads for Felix's GREAT Skydiving accomplishment if Height and Speed, as well as their dick measuring contests?

Matt

Maybe Cooper (Duane) had a gyro in his brown
paper bag? (or Flux Capacitor).

All divers in the CRASH (Disc) show went out the
stairs head first vs ass-backwards - yes? That
applies.

Maybe Cooper was a relative of Baumgartners? !!
Ja? Did Herr Baumgratner's ancestors have Cooper
Comics on the wall. The possibilities are endless!
Laugh


(This post was edited by georger on Oct 17, 2012, 9:11 PM)


georger

Oct 17, 2012, 9:13 PM
Post #36964 of 52724 (18987 views)
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Re: [377] GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Who is to say DBC didn't have an inertial stability augmentation device? Makes as much sense as a back brace designed to vibrate upon receiving VOR radial signals. Wink

How about some support for a Snowmman pardon or at least parole?
He doesn't get distracted like we do. It would be good for the forum.

377

We finally find an area to compromise.

You get radioes.

I get gyros!

Laugh


Farflung

Oct 17, 2012, 9:28 PM
Post #36965 of 52724 (18980 views)
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Re: [georger] GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

Georger,

I don’t see where space suits have any applicability to skydiving either, but Kittinger and Felix most certainly proved how flesh and blood they were, by wearing the things. It is the ‘Sky God’ element that feels the need to defy physics every half century, and claim a Pyrrhic victory. Approaching the 37 thousandth comment, and already people (OK person) are saturated by any mention of Felix on the vaunted DBC thread after four days. This after MONTHS and MONTHS, of endless drivel about ‘TOG’, which never had anything to do with: Cooper, Jumping, Aviation or Reality. Amazing!

The GASP is a three axis system, and as you pointed out, the force of gravity at 130,000 feet, is almost the same as sea level. So….. why not use that as the ‘Free Space’ on the stabilization Bingo Card and have an X/Y stabilized device which uses gravity as a default Z? Thus eliminating the ‘man in the loop’ joystick on the GASP, to control attitude? No different than the ‘pressure suit’ (Space Suit for the skydivers) offering a momentary and systemic, artificial environment, just like maintaining stability. I truly don’t see the deviation from an ethos which allows 180,000 cubic feet of helium, and a forty acre envelope, to deliver the ‘jumper’ to altitude.

It’s all for not, as any allegory, simile or associated research which demonstrates the process of R&D is to be identified as: witchcraft in less than 96 hours. Same as the flow of information on Cooper’s tie clip, flight path and seat selection have suffered at the hands of those who declare what is (TOG) and isn’t (Felix, tie clips, seats, flight paths) worthy of intelligent, independent and collaborative discussion.

Please, can’t we all just talk about Duane?


skyjack71

Oct 17, 2012, 9:30 PM
Post #36966 of 52724 (18979 views)
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Re: [Robert99] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

The first flight of the Boeing 727 was on February 9, 1963 and it's first revenue flight was with Eastern Air Lines on February 1, 1964.

Robert99

Thank You for that information and it fits!


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 9:39 PM
Post #36967 of 52724 (18975 views)
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Re: [Farflung] GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

Farf wrote
Quote:
Please, can’t we all just talk about Duane?

We sure can Farf. Can you imagine a smarter long range plan for the crime of the century? Duane mimicked an incompetent petty thief and con artist for decades in preparation for Norjack. With his record he could walk into an FBI office and confess to being DBC. He'd be asked to leave and not bother them again.

Absolutely brilliant.

377


(This post was edited by 377 on Oct 17, 2012, 9:40 PM)


RobertMBlevins

Oct 17, 2012, 9:44 PM
Post #36968 of 52724 (18971 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

The first flight of the Boeing 727 was on February 9, 1963 and it's first revenue flight was with Eastern Air Lines on February 1, 1964.

Robert99

Thank You for that information and it fits!

Bernie Geestman had three main employers during his lifetime. From about 1947-1958 he worked as a mechanic on aircraft for NWA. First on Shemya Island, (recruited out of Minneapolis) and then later in Seattle.

Between 1959-1968 he worked for The Boeing Company, mostly a line guy on the 727 program. In other words, non-SPEEA.

After that, he went to work for Foss Tugs in Seattle, and worked for them as a marine mechanic until at least 1975. Logbooks found in a box in Twisp, WA cover the years 1968-1975, with the one for 1971 no longer in the box.


(This post was edited by RobertMBlevins on Oct 17, 2012, 11:22 PM)


Farflung

Oct 17, 2012, 9:51 PM
Post #36969 of 52724 (18968 views)
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Re: [377] GASP! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks 377,

Wow, I haven’t felt this good since my proctologist said ‘All done.’

Duane was an amazing person in that he served honorably in two branches of the service, rather that the loser one service I was associated with. Much smarter to ‘stick it’ to the man rather than working at a Quickie Mart, selling Cheesy Poofs, and Bladder Busters to the self important gubberment retirees who would clack into the store, with their cloven hooves and bore me with their ‘I was in the service for twenty years’ stories, which had me browsing the homo-erotic magazines as a form of relief. But they seem to think they are as interesting as Duane.

Well we all know better, because no matter what you did, Duane did more. No matter how illustrious your service record, Duane’s is more impressive. No matter where you worked, Duane worked more and at more places and had family that did the same. You think you know history? Well Duane IS history.

He is….. the most interesting entity, in the universe, and beyond.


skyjack71

Oct 17, 2012, 10:18 PM
Post #36970 of 52724 (18966 views)
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Re: [377] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jo,

Boeing had in the 1950s and still has paint specs which suppliers must meet. Access to system schematics by paint suppliers wasn't and isn't needed.

See e.g. http://www.boeingsuppliers.com/...tal/high_solids.html

377

So YOU ARE TRYING to say the supplier and developer of the paint used on planes as they developed - was JUST there.

Sorry, but the chemical companies and other companies had contracts with BOEING to develope specific products. NO chemical company or manufacturer is going to spend money to develope a product if they do NOT know there is a need for the product and the specs for the product.

Do YOU know who had the contract for the Boeings regarding the exterior and interior finishes? You think they ust got those contracts with MAGIC with NOT spec or experimentation on the intended use?

YOU ARE AN ATTORNEY - RIGHT?
Boeing developed the mechanics, aerodynamics and navigational. The design for the interior design and exterior durability was left up to private contractors. These companies would not know the mechanics of the plane - but, the specifics they needed to develope the what was needed in their area of development...such as durability of the seat covers, the interior nd exteriour finishes. Impossible to make a bid or develope the product with out that specific information.

I used the covering of the seats and the exterior finish only as an example.....I am sure there are other things they "contracted" out. But, John and per what I remember of our conversation in the very beginning is correct. John was going deaf and communicating with him by phone was difficult not to mention expensive for me with my income at that time and my outrageous phone bills.

John did send me pictures and letters (from his parents journal, and certain papers he thought I might need). John sent me the envelope Duane mailed his letter to his Mother in from Camp Siebert in 1943. The FBI had asked for DNA and John thought this item the most likely to have Duane's DNA.

Strange he sent it to me and NOT the FBI. Do not believe the FBI actually went to see John as some have claimed. John and I did NOT discuss any actions or questions the FBI did or didn't ask him. He provided me with what he had and then met me in CA in 2004 - the only conversation we shared was minimal before the phone call came during our meal - that his sister had a heart attack.

John told me he had somethings to share with me - and one things was later relayed to me after John's death. Remember that John and his wife BOTH knew Richard Tosaw and his sister. There was a NOTE (do not know what on or who composed it) that Duane had parachute training in the 40's at Fort Benning. Where he obtained this information I do NOT know.

Since my own investigation did not come up with this nor did the research a woman in the FT Benning area who was an avid military history buff - could not find anything....I had NO proof of this. Where John GOT the information I will NEVER know, but due to the conversation at the Dinner Table just before the call came in - he had asked me if I knew that Tosaw was a private investigator...the impression I got was that Tosaw and John had talked.

He seemed concerned I did NOT have a high opinion of Tosaw and this would be discussed after dinner in his office (he had some kind of device in his office to facilitate his ability to hear me.

The sister was upset John and I were going to visit with each other - she wanted the PAST to stay in the PAST just as she begged me in a letter at a later date. There would only be ONE reason for that statement.

I understand that Galen Cook had access or was given some of Tosaw's research regarding Cooper, but this would NOT have been part of those records unless Cooper was specifically mentioned. Perhaps the information John was going to share with me came from the sister and that she had second thoughts - perhaps even why she had that heart attack.

I will never forget that at the hospital I asked John if she wanted to meet me. I made if very very quick and introduced myself and apologized for meeting under the circumstance. She looked at me and said "YOU are NOT Jo!" I had told her before that I had never been to CA and that she had never met me.

I will always believe from her letters and the phone calls (only to see how she was - not to discuss her brother) that she was RELIEVED I was NOT the woman she thought I was. Her complete attitude toward me changed, but then perhaps that was because of her heart attack....but, I will always believe it was because I was NOT the woman Duane took to her house in xxxx.


Farflung

Oct 17, 2012, 10:35 PM
Post #36971 of 52724 (18961 views)
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Not Felix [In reply to] Can't Post

Commercial on QVC AND Lifetime…… have time, must be quick, no Felix, not TOG…..

Duane was all things to aviation corrosion control and much more qualified than some slug retiree from the service. This is all so awesome to read and digest and ummm… I’m starting to need chocolate milk.. has anyone been in Duane for 21 and one half years?…. Tired…. Too much talk about…. un-stoopid… me need sleepy pee pee…. It was Duane…. Everything else not to be discussed…. Just Coo coo key choo…

Duane was a super secret paratrooper, invented airplane paint, you don’t even know.

Please, more Duane…. I hunger and thirst for more Duane… no… NO… not any TOG… just Duane, have mercy, stay on topic as I command.


skyjack71

Oct 17, 2012, 10:43 PM
Post #36972 of 52724 (18959 views)
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Re: [mrshutter45] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It should be very simple to prove John was connected to Boeing, tax returns, employment history, w-2's etc etc.
why would you not pursue a lead such as this?

"Could the 1971 SKYJACKING of a Boeing 727 have been - a publicity stunt?"
I'm guessing this was a joke?

I am NOT at liberty do discuss this in the thread but would be glad to do so by phone. Obtaining the records requires the permission and willingness of a survivor!

Had to delete the rest of the post I made as - it is about things and circumstances I am NOT supposed to talk about in this thread or in any written format.

I would give anything to see John's history - employment and locations and addresses from 1943 till 2004 when I first met him.

The statement Smile"Could the 1971 SKYJACKING of a Boeing 727 have been - a publicity stunt?"
I'm guessing this was a joke?

Yes, it was a joke - I do have a sense of humor! Dual purpose - thought a certain someone might BITE into it and choke on it! I do have sadistic thoughts ever now and then.


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 10:48 PM
Post #36973 of 52724 (18956 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

Jo wrote
Quote:
Boeing developed the mechanics, aerodynamics and navigational. The design for the interior design and exterior durability was left up to private contractors. These companies would not know the mechanics of the plane - but, the specifics they needed to develope the what was needed in their area of development...such as durability of the seat covers, the interior nd exteriour finishes. Impossible to make a bid or develope the product with out that specific information.

Wrong Jo.

I am interested in aviation history. I spent days in the Boeing archives researching the development history of one of my favorite planes, the Boeing 377. It was developed in the late 40s. Even way back then Boeing, not suppliers, did all the design for interior and exterior finishes. Once they knew what they wanted they published specs for suppliers who wanted to bid. I reviewed reams of materials just dealing with interior fabric color and weave density specs.

You want so desperately to prove that Duane was DBC that you spin any connection into allegedly probative evidence. Duane knew the terrain in the flight path area so he must be the jumper. Duane knew something about paragliders you watched so he must have been a jumper. Duane had some odd piece of hardware that you sold at a garage sale so it must have come from a parachute rig. Duane knew an airplane mechanic so he must be a jumper. The list is endless and at times is absurd, like the parachuting pipeline welders.

Obsessive beliefs. Read about it. I think you may suffer from it to some degree. In your case it's pretty harmless but it actually impedes your ability to rationally investigate Duane as a Norjack suspect. You sort evidence in a very biased manner.

Carry on. I still enjoy your presence here and wish you the best.

377


Farflung

Oct 17, 2012, 10:53 PM
Post #36974 of 52724 (18953 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

Stop teasing with low hanging fruit! We aren’t all Bozo’s who say one thing and do another! Please stop flaunting your knowledge of Duane, like some sort of Cooper related item, which appears to be the land of plenty; but like some retiree’s story about his military career, is nothing but a linguistic ‘La Brea Tar Pit’, which captures and vanquishes all from the mighty Woolley Mammoth to the ceaselessly boring lifer who insists on telling you stories about his career, till you jump into the tar pit as a sweet escape.

Please tell more about Duane, I beg.


377  (F 666)

Oct 17, 2012, 10:54 PM
Post #36975 of 52724 (18952 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Boeing Connections [In reply to] Can't Post

Jo wrote
Quote:
Had to delete the rest of the post I made as - it is about things and circumstances I am NOT supposed to talk about in this thread or in any written format.

Klaxon horn sounding. Loudspeaker blares: "Tease Alert Tease Alert. This is not a drill".

It must be tough being 007 Jo. So many secrets to protect. Never reveal the whole story. It would be akin to treason.

377


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