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USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment??

 

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lauraliscious  (C 35895)

Jan 17, 2008, 2:04 PM
Post #151 of 541 (2211 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

JohnRich and DSE...of course I realize I can e-mail the whole board by their individual e-mail addresses. I was being ironic to make a point. I probably will e-mail them at some point. The removal of that group address just makes the process slightly more difficult. An e-mail address being done away with on it's own really is not that big of a deal. But it could be indicative of larger issues, and that is a cause of concern to me.

Right now I'm still trying to get enough information to figure out exactly what the issues are, and to figure out exactly what I would like to ask my representatives about. And I do trust my RD, so I'm going to talk to him first. This is about gathering information in order to make informed decisions for me. Who and what to believe has to be an individual decision, based on levels of trust and information gathered, whatever the source.


chutejump  (D 6919)

Jan 17, 2008, 2:09 PM
Post #152 of 541 (2207 views)
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Re: [stratostar] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."


Well yea, it's knowing what the clean end is, thats the trick....Wink I think I have a new sig line.

I appreciate that you find my view of political correctness entertaining!
I, like Martin plan to keep my individual membership so I can vote! on the completely new BOD we need next year!
I plan to throw all of my support behind Alfred E. Newman as he has been my signing representative to uspa for GM renewal for many years! (He is a very ethical individual!) They didn't fool him than! and sure can't now!

Tom, SkydiveMRVS


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 17, 2008, 2:15 PM
Post #153 of 541 (2193 views)
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Re: [chutejump] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I appreciate that you find my view of political correctness entertaining!

Well spoken, not entertaining.Wink


chutejump  (D 6919)

Jan 17, 2008, 2:23 PM
Post #154 of 541 (2177 views)
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Re: [stratostar] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Stratostar - "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." Tom Dolphin 08


And remember the clean end is "Always" the other end!

Tom, SkydiveMRVS


kschilk

Jan 17, 2008, 4:00 PM
Post #155 of 541 (2093 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Let's say that Jan's public comments were the cause of USPA losing four counts on the Skyride lawsuit, which cost the organization (that's us) a lot of money (that's ours).

So, what's wrong, then, with ousting the person that caused that loss? Wouldn't this be just like any other business getting rid of an executive whose poor performance has caused business problems?

Was the impeachment a condition of the lawsuit "settlement"....maybe, unofficially?


Thanatos340  (B 27588)

Jan 17, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #156 of 541 (2087 views)
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Re: [lauraliscious] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a story.. Pure fiction..

Lets say there an organization.. This organizations purpose is supposed to be to represent the interests of their members. This organization elects officials to represent their interests.. Those elected officials include both National Officials and Regional Officials.

Those officials elect a super group of Executive Officials. Now once these Executive Officials get into power.. They find they like POWER!! They finally get to the point that they donít even want to talk to the Regional Officials and National Officials much less the Members of the organization. But that is OK because the members are notoriously apathetic to what the organization does.

Then after several years of a portion of the organization complaining about one member, they finally cant ignore it any longer and are forced into actually **Gasp** Doing something!!Shocked

But see.. The executive Group really Likes these guys that the membership and Regional and National officials want thrown out. In fact at least one or more of the Executive Group is a business partner with these guys that everyone else wants thrown out. Others are just Buddy, Buddy with them.

So what could they Do?? Hey.. as the all powerful executive committee.. They would be the only ones privy to any legal proceedings. They could keep the Regional and National Directors completely in the dark about what was going on and tell them anything they wanted.

OK.. Let the group throw them out and then when the Bad guys files a Law suit, The all powerful executive committee will be the only ones that really knows what is happening with it. Oh.. And then there is this one national official that is really a problem. She actually cares about the "Members". Something will have to done about that too!!

Now all they have to do is let things go for a while and then convince everyone that the "Insurance Company" will not cover them if it goes to trial because that rabble-rouser National Director said some things. So then they get to settle the lawsuit, Pay off their Buddies (And maybe even get a little Bonus back from their business partners for letting them back in) and nobody will know because no one can discuss the case.

Then the super mega bonus.. They can then Setup the person they hate most to take the fall for the whole thing. Impeach them; Kick that trouble maker out of office for questioning their authority (Of course saying that it was because that rabble rousers actions caused them to have to settle the lawsuit).
And the double mega super extra Bonus is that the vocal minority that still feels the organization should be representing the members will get pissed off and quit too!!

Absolutely Beautiful!! and then Golden ones can go back to doing whatever they want without ever having to listen to those pathetic "Members". (Of course when they are not out cashing checks (remember.. They are Business partners with the guys that everyone wanted kicked out) from their Buddies that the Members wanted kicked out to begin with.)

What a Beautiful Plan. I am sure glad that none of this is true. Sure would make a good Book or made for TV movie though. With the Hollywood writers on strike, Think I might could sell the idea to a studio?


jlmiracle  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 4:28 PM
Post #157 of 541 (2056 views)
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Re: [kschilk] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Was the impeachment a condition of the lawsuit "settlement"....maybe, unofficially?

Could they even legally do that since she is an elected by us, the members, without disclosing the terms of the settlement? When they impeached Clinton, we all knew why.

I don't know, just curious.

judy

Who runs Bardertown?


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 17, 2008, 5:59 PM
Post #158 of 541 (1968 views)
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Re: [jlmiracle] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Was the impeachment a condition of the lawsuit "settlement"....maybe, unofficially?

Could they even legally do that since she is an elected by us, the members, without disclosing the terms of the settlement? When they impeached Clinton, we all knew why.
?
No, they could not make impeachment part of a settlement. Not legally, not ethically, not otherwise. No one can guarantee a majority vote in favor of impeachment. Which is why, IMO, the tone of this thread might serve everyone if the emotional BS went away and discussion of how to best respond as a community. Threats and name-calling generally aren't heard as well as a coalition of similar voices with a rational position. Thanatos has a pretty good grip on it, I'd like to hear his suggestions.


3331  (D 3331)

Jan 17, 2008, 6:09 PM
Post #159 of 541 (1949 views)
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Re: [all] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In the history of USPA one member of the BOD has been dismissed after impeachment proceedings, he was Lyle Cameron in 1972, the hard feelings were deep and had been festering a long time.

Since then any talk of impeaching a BOD member has been nothing more then popcorn farts.


Armour666  (B 30794)

Jan 17, 2008, 6:10 PM
Post #160 of 541 (1946 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

The only problem with your story is that there are to many people that like to be spoon feed and will take what you wrote as just that a story. They will believe what ever they are told from the central powers to be.

As other have spoken there has to be more action. I'm not able to be at the meeting but in my short time of being around this sport there are people I all ready know and met that hold the same views that I would entrust to take my vote and do something productive with. I will give them my proxy so that even though I canít be there I will still have a say.

This online voting that Jan is working on must strike fear in some of the BOD as it would allow even more people a means of voicing their opinion of what they think of them.

The other issue is some people donít feel comfortable in confrontation or speaking out thatís ok to if they know there are others who will carrier their wishes for them.

Itís all ready evident that no matter what opinion you have in this sport your going to piss off people and Iíd rather piss people of with sticking with my ethics and what I fell is the right thing to do then just being silent.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 6:25 PM
Post #161 of 541 (1927 views)
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Re: [jlmiracle] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I don't understand how any court in America would allow somewhat anonymous postings on an internet forum as evidence. Look at all the drunk ramblings in bonfire and other forums, how serious can you really take most of what you see on internet forums.

Actually there is plenty of case law stating exactly the opposite. Statements on the internet are real and carry real consequences civilly and criminally.


mnskydiver688  (D 30125)

Jan 17, 2008, 6:37 PM
Post #162 of 541 (1905 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Better watch what you text message too. Those have been used in court cases as well.


bill6870  (D 23527)

Jan 17, 2008, 7:03 PM
Post #163 of 541 (1880 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just saw on the USPA website that the USPA has scheduled impeachment proceedings Jan Meyer at the upcoming Meeting.

Since we (the general membership) elected her, do we have any say in this matter?

How do we as the general membership start Impeachment Proceedings against CORRUPT officials in the Executive Committee?


Edited to correct spelling of name.

I was very disappointed to see the impeachment proceeding of Jan Meyer on the agenda. Jan Meyer has given so very much to this sport that we love and continues to be an asset to all skydivers. We need more people like Jan on the board. Jan Meyer was elected by the membership and if there are issues they should be made public to the membership and let the people that voted for or against her to make the decision whether to remove her from the board or not.



When voting in elections I prefer to vote FOR the candidate that I like but if Jan is removed from the board you can be sure that I will vote AGAINST the people that voted to remove her. Iím quite sure many other skydivers feel the same way. USPA is supposed to be an organization by, for, and about skydivers, why is it then that the individual skydiver is kept in the dark on so many issues? I find it appalling that not even the BOD can get access to the settlement of the 1-800 Skyride lawsuit, Iím not sure what the reasoning behind that decision is but to the individual skydiver it appears to be an attempt to protect the guilty.


divnswoop  (D 18276)

Jan 17, 2008, 7:44 PM
Post #164 of 541 (1835 views)
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Re: USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Kind of ironic that the "good ol' boy network" is working on BOTH sides.

Side 1:
We do what we want and screw the people who don't like what we are doing and have no power against us.

Side 2:
We will stick by our friend no matter what they cost the organization, the members, or any settlements.


Both sides are at fault.Shocked

e.d.u.c....nevermind


(This post was edited by divnswoop on Jan 17, 2008, 7:50 PM)


divnswoop  (D 18276)

Jan 17, 2008, 8:03 PM
Post #165 of 541 (1803 views)
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Re: [divnswoop] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

off topic.....


I had a friend who every thursday went to a homeless shelter and fed the poor. He also took two foster kids in who were beaten and abused. Then he raised money for the elderly to put them in proper care....

A year later he was convicted of robbing a bank and shot a teller in the process..

Good guy or bad guy? discuss..


Thanatos340  (B 27588)

Jan 17, 2008, 8:09 PM
Post #166 of 541 (1788 views)
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Re: [divnswoop] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We will stick by our friend no matter what they cost the organization, the members, or any settlements.

I take issue with that statement. I know I have never met Jan. There is no way I could consider her a friend other than I have read what she has written, I seen what she has done for the USPA and agree with most of what I have read.

The idea that Jan caused the USPA to have to settle with Skyride is what the Executive Committee has implied. That brings up a lot of questions..

1) Are they telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the Truth?

2) Did the USPA act on sound legal advise?

3) Since the Executive Committee is the ONLY ones that know the details of the settlement and the reasons that settlement was made, How are we supposed to just take their word for it?

4) Does anyone on the Executive Committee have a personal vendetta against Jan? Are they just using her as a scapegoat for their own bungling of this issue?

5) Does the fact that members of the Executive Committee are supporters and business associates of Skyride not raise questions for anyone else?

6) Specifically, What was it she did that caused us to have to settle?

It is easy to sit back and take the Executive Committee at their word that Jan was why we had to settle but just saying that doesnít make it true. (doesnít mean it is not either but as usual the Executive Committee doesnít bother to tell us (the general Membership) anything. Just keep us in the dark and feed us shit. At least I feel Confident that Jan would say exactly what she thought.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Jan 17, 2008, 8:10 PM
Post #167 of 541 (1779 views)
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Re: [divnswoop] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

This should be a new thread but I'll add my .02.

He is a good guy that went the wrong way. Hopefully he can do some good in prison while he is paying for his crime if they don't put him to death. Doing good does not exempt you from the laws of our society.


divnswoop  (D 18276)

Jan 17, 2008, 8:33 PM
Post #168 of 541 (1748 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

J, my words are there to get people to think and examine. I know you are one of the few people here who have educated yourself on the skyride issue. Unfortunately, I think many people here don't know the details, nor do I know ALL the details. But I am not blindly backing one side or the other. I think Jan has done a lot to help the "common" skydiver. That however does not allow her free range to actively pursue shutting down a business. (even if they deceived their customers) When you hold a public seat, there are rules and regulations that you are held to. There are many other people in this forum that have found out how government works recently.


divnswoop  (D 18276)

Jan 17, 2008, 8:42 PM
Post #169 of 541 (1736 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I take issue with that statement. I know I have never met Jan. There is no way I could consider her a friend other than I have read what she has written, I seen what she has done for the USPA and agree with most of what I have read.

You agree with the anti-trust statements she made on a public forum as a member of the BOD? Once again, I agree with most of what she says, BUT a member of the BOD can't try and take down business because of their ethics? If that was the case, there are seveal other DZ's who should be shut down for taking underage AFF's, doing RW with two tandem pairs, and breaking other BSR's or decieving their customers, not to mention other issues..... The general skydiving population is JUST as stuck in the good ol' boy network as the BOD members are...


(This post was edited by divnswoop on Jan 17, 2008, 8:46 PM)


Thanatos340  (B 27588)

Jan 17, 2008, 8:45 PM
Post #170 of 541 (1733 views)
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Re: [divnswoop] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When you hold a public seat, there are rules and regulations that you are held to. There are many other people in this forum that have found out how government works recently.

When there are Wrongs being committed. Does holding a public office mean you should ignore those wrongs?

Can you state exactly which Rules she violated and how she violated them?

Holding Public seat and working to shut down a business that is defrauding the general public and members of the organization that you represent is NOT against any rules that I am aware of. In fact it should be expected of anyone holding office.

You still have not addressed the Clear conflict of interest with the executive Committee members being supporters of and business associates with Skyride. Thus far we only have the implication from them that the USPA had to settle with due to Jans actions.

No one has said what it was she did. The accusation she caused the settlement is coming from a highly questionable source that has a clear conflict of interest.


skypuppy  (D 347)

Jan 17, 2008, 9:02 PM
Post #171 of 541 (1719 views)
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Re: [peregrinerose] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Regardless of who pushed for it, a lot of people on the board must have gone along for the lawsuit to go forward, trying to blame one person is both pointless and vindictive. (In my opinion)

Now, if she did anything unethical, or rather, illegal, during the debate, in order to come up with or to dish dirt, that could be grounds for something like this.

But I don't believe she did.


divnswoop  (D 18276)

Jan 17, 2008, 9:02 PM
Post #172 of 541 (1713 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
When there are Wrongs being committed. Does holding a public office mean you should ignore those wrongs?
No it doesn't....but there are right and wrong ways of going about it.

Quote:
Can you state exactly which Rules she violated and how she violated them?
No, but I am not a lawyer. There was an issue several year ago where a BOD member gave information to a lawyer about a DZ that he had a personal vendetta with, In fact it was very similar as 95% of the USPA members was against the particular DZ. The outcome was that the DZO won and probably could have shut the USPA down there due to Anti-trust laws......but he only counter-sued for $1.

Quote:
Holding Public seat and working to shut down a business that is defrauding the general public and members of the organization that you represent is NOT against any rules that I am aware of.
I agree, but there are ways about going about it.

Quote:
You still have not addressed the Clear conflict of interest with the executive Committee members being supporters of and business associates with Skyride. Thus far we only have the implication from them that the USPA had to settle with due to Jans actions.
Maybe clarity will come from the hearings...

Quote:
No one has said what it was she did. The accusation she caused the settlement is coming from a highly questionable source that has a clear conflict of interest.
once again, I agree....but you have read the lawsuit and there are proper ways about going about getting rid of somebody in your organization....


skypuppy  (D 347)

Jan 17, 2008, 9:12 PM
Post #173 of 541 (1707 views)
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Re: [divnswoop] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

If that was the case, there are seveal other DZ's who should be shut down for taking underage AFF's, doing RW with two tandem pairs, and breaking other BSR's or decieving their customers
_________________________________________________

Bingo!


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jan 17, 2008, 9:42 PM
Post #174 of 541 (1683 views)
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Re: [skypuppy] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Now, if she did anything unethical, or rather, illegal, during the debate, in order to come up with or to dish dirt, that could be grounds for something like this.
.

It's easy to ignore ethic vs legal, but in the real world, they're not far apart.
Unethical=fired, impeached, removed, terminated
Illegal=fired, impeached, removed, terminated, possibly jailed and/or severely fined.

On the subject of hypotheticals...
If a member of a governing body unwittingly provided confidential and damaging information to the oposing attorney during litigation or settlement negotiation, should it be considered unethical, illegal, both, or neither?


skypuppy  (D 347)

Jan 17, 2008, 9:46 PM
Post #175 of 541 (1680 views)
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Re: [DSE] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Frankly it had to be a majority of the board that initiated the lawsuit; if Jan is the reason the organization had to settle, one would say as an executive of the organization she would have to answer TO HER EMPLOYERS, IN OTHER WORDS, THE MEMBERSHIP.

In other words, the settlement should be made available to the members, the things Jan did to force the organization into a settlement, and how much it cost the organization as a result.

A person is entitled to make a mistake; it would be up to the membership then to decide if they still believed in her and whether or not to continue to support her as their representative.

It is NOT the king's decision - all he should be able to do is make a recommendation.


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