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USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment??

 

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CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:20 AM
Post #101 of 541 (1531 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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I think it's time for a "Take Back the USPA" movement...

This is a "devil's advocate" response. Don't shoot the messenger.

I offer this because there's a lot of lynch-mob type talk going on, and nobody seems to be considering what may be the other side of the argument.

Let's say that Jan's public comments were the cause of USPA losing four counts on the Skyride lawsuit, which cost the organization (that's us) a lot of money (that's ours).

So, what's wrong, then, with ousting the person that caused that loss? Wouldn't this be just like any other business getting rid of an executive whose poor performance has caused business problems?

If you were the holder of Enron stock which became worthless because of executive malfeasance, then I'd bet that you would be ready to terminate and hold accountable those executives. So how come everyone here seems to want to do the opposite with Jan, and save the BOD member who caused the financial loss to USPA?

Okay, I'm done being the devil's advocate now. Please don't shoot me. These are not my personal feelings. But I think the question needs to be asked.

Devils advocate to your devils advocate. How are her public statements any different than anyone elses?


Edit: My "Take Back the USPA" sentiments are not based on this incident, as we don't have any information about this incident. In fact they are based on several YEARS of ineffective representation by several long term members of the board, and extremely suspect behavior by the same members of the board to further their own gains, and protect their network.

I agree. My feelings are not tied to just one issue.

On the issue with Jan, I don't want her outed necause she was speaking for me. If they are going to throw people out for their opinion then I need to be right next to Jan.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:30 AM
Post #102 of 541 (1507 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

[uninformed conjecture]Is there a chance that the action against Jan is not because of what she has said, but because she is refusing to curtail herself now, endangering the association for more litigation?[/uninformed conjecture]


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Jan 17, 2008, 10:31 AM
Post #103 of 541 (1505 views)
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Re: [jlmiracle] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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What evidence is there that Glenn (or anyone else) mishandled the Skyride issue?

because we lost.Unsure

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If you hold Glenn responsible as president of the executive committee, then you must also hold Jay, B.J., Jan, Sherry, Scott, Lee accountable as well.

okay then, we will hold them all accountable.
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"what do you mean 'we,' white man?Tongue" I dont' hold them accountable. I've been on the losing side of lawsuits, and am educated enough to understand that losing isn't always a loss.

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The president doesn't have absolute authority.

You might want to tell some presidents that. Crazy
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I shouldn't need to. That's *exactly* what the BOD is supposed to do. It's called "democracy."

Have you ever been to a USPA board meeting?
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yes, I have. I fail to see how your question relates to Jan's impeachment being an agenda item. FWIW, based on what I've been told and personally experienced, I'm in support of Jan and her actions until presented with contrary information. I don't see the point in being outraged just yet, because so far, all I hear is the sound of one hand clapping. And given that it takes two-thirds of the board to make the action complete...I don't share your opinion that the board is made up of dummies. I happen to think that at least a couple of them are very fine, integrous people, and I have faith that they'll do the right thing based on facts in evidence as presented by both sides of an argument.


judy


MarkM  (C 35089)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:32 AM
Post #104 of 541 (1500 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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The USPA has us and they know it. We really have no choice. If you want to skydive, You MUST be a member. It sucks but it is a sad fact of life.

I really disagree with this. There's no law requiring USPA membership to skydive and I've known large DZs to not be USPA members. It didn't hurt their business one bit.

Frankly any group of people could start a new org, get the insurance set up, focus more on current DZ/skydiving needs and start to flip dropzones away from USPA if they really are doing such a crappy job.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:36 AM
Post #105 of 541 (1488 views)
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Re: [MarkM] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Frankly any group of people could start a new org, get the insurance set up, focus more on current DZ/skydiving needs...

In reply to:

No so far fetched?


jlmiracle  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:39 AM
Post #106 of 541 (1478 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
[uninformed conjecture]Is there a chance that the action against Jan is not because of what she has said, but because she is refusing to curtail herself now, endangering the association for more litigation?[/uninformed conjecture]

How do we know that Jan isn't a crazy glue sniffer or a crabperson?LaughLaugh

I don't understand how any court in America would allow somewhat anonymous postings on an internet forum as evidence. Look at all the drunk ramblings in bonfire and other forums, how serious can you really take most of what you see on internet forums.

judy


chaoskitty  (B 26574)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:39 AM
Post #107 of 541 (1476 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

But why re-invent the wheel? This is why we have elections.


Thanatos340  (B 27588)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:41 AM
Post #108 of 541 (1469 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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Let's say that Jan's public comments were the cause of USPA losing four counts on the Skyride lawsuit, which cost the organization (that's us) a lot of money (that's ours).

We did not LOOSE the lawsuit. We settled the lawsuit. BIG Difference!!

While the terms that we settled on are unknown, It is known that the BOD and General Membership had absolutely NO SAY in the decision to settle. It is my understanding that decision was made by the Executive Committee.

You Know the same Executive Committee that has members with DIRECT business ties with the plaintiff they are settling with. As in the Plaintiff sends them Business and PAYS them.

In reply to:
So, what's wrong, then, with ousting the person that caused that loss?

Nothing at all.. But I don’t see their names on the agenda for impeachment.

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So how come everyone here seems to want to do the opposite with Jan, and save the BOD member who caused the financial loss to USPA?

Jan spoke for MANY of us. Her outspoken stance on Skyride was a vocalization of what a LARGE portion of the general membership felt.

We didn’t Loose, We settled.

Just because a bunch of chicken shit lawyers decided it would be cheaper to settle than it would be to stand up for what is right doesn’t mean that Kicking a Lying, Cheating, Thieving organization such as Skyride (And I will gladly back these accusation up with sworn statements from Skyride victims) out of the USPA was not the right thing to do.

Was it mishandled?? Absolutely!! They got back in didn’t they. But what do you expect when Members of the Executive Committee are in Business with them.


airtwardo  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:45 AM
Post #109 of 541 (1462 views)
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Re: [chaoskitty] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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But why re-invent the wheel? This is why we have elections.

It's not reinventing...it's updating.

Everyone thought pistons were great, until jets came out.


And hey, this IS the 'Home of the Land & the Free of the Brave'...the don't fix it, get a new one society...maybe a little competition is a GOOD thing?! Wink


Thanatos340  (B 27588)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:48 AM
Post #110 of 541 (1452 views)
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Re: [MarkM] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I really disagree with this. There's no law requiring USPA membership to skydive and I've known large DZs to not be USPA members. It didn't hurt their business one bit.

Then drop your USPA Membership and see if you find a place that will let you Jump. Good Luck with that.


Elisha  (D 31656)

Jan 17, 2008, 10:53 AM
Post #111 of 541 (1443 views)
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Re: [jlmiracle] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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I don't understand how any court in America would allow somewhat anonymous postings on an internet forum as evidence. Look at all the drunk ramblings in bonfire and other forums, how serious can you really take most of what you see on internet forums.

judy

Exactly. How many people on internet fora are there with a screen name of George Bush? Yes, I'm sure most of us dislike him and his decisions, but that doesn't mean we would think using internet posts as credible evidence to sue him.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:05 AM
Post #112 of 541 (1416 views)
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Re: [peregrinerose] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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Whoever got USPA into the lawsuit situation (and USPA's actions regarding Skyride were pretty indefensable from an anti-trust stance), really should be accountable for it.

Jan Meyer may have been the driving force behind the removal of Individual, and Group Memberships, but it is a "Board of Directors" not a Kingdom, were it a Kingdom Glen Bangs would have to be considered the Anointed. If impeachment is how “we're” going to "hold people responsible" everyone who voted to remove the memberships should be facing impeachment. I'd suggest as well that if one is "convicted", all should be convicted. Then I'd suppose (I don't know the bylaws well enough) King Glen I is afforded the privilege of appointing replacements.

Also, as I understand Glen Bangs is the only member of the BOD privileged to the detales of the “Skyride settlement”, and he has chosen not to share this information with the rest of the BOD. My regional director has related to me that there are often items/issues to which he as a member of the BOD is not privileged. Maybe it is a Kingdom?

To my knowledge, Jan’s primary “infraction” is that she’s willing to talk with, and discuss issues with the lowly peasants (aka members), the nerve!!!

I did write my opinions to the BOD, cc to my RD, and cc to a drop zone owners email list. In that letter, I informed that If Ms. Meyer is removed from “OUR” BOD, I will remove my drop zone from the list of USPA Group Members, and make it known that Individual Membership is no longer required at my DZ.

Martin
Air Capital Drop Zone


Amazon  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:11 AM
Post #113 of 541 (1397 views)
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Re: [peek] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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USPA headquarters turned off the email address fullboard@uspa.org because one or more BOD members asked them to, because they do not want to hear from USPA members.

See now that right there pisses me off.. They are supposed to be representing THE MEMBERS...and that includes listening to WE THE MEMBERS.


lauraliscious  (C 35895)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:19 AM
Post #114 of 541 (1377 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

J - You stated earlier in this thread that you have posted the link to the Skyride vs. USPA lawsuit in the Skyride thread. As there are MULTIPLE skyride threads and I don't really have the time or inclination to wade through them again, could you please provide a link in this thread to that post??? Pretty please???

I am still trying to learn all I can before I go to the meetings....and I would like to be well-informed rather than jump to conclusions. I like the discussion going on here, the devil's advocate and everything.


Thanatos340  (B 27588)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:21 AM
Post #115 of 541 (1373 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I will remove my drop zone from the list of USPA Group Members, and make it known that Individual Membership is no longer required at my DZ.

Thank you for taking a stand.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Jan 17, 2008, 11:22 AM
Post #116 of 541 (1366 views)
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Re: [Amazon] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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USPA headquarters turned off the email address fullboard@uspa.org because one or more BOD members asked them to, because they do not want to hear from USPA members.

See now that right there pisses me off.. They are supposed to be representing THE MEMBERS...and that includes listening to WE THE MEMBERS.

Same question as asked above. What evidence do you have that the email address was removed for the reason cited above?
If it's true, it's wrong. But is it true? Cite the source.


Thanatos340  (B 27588)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:25 AM
Post #117 of 541 (1359 views)
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Re: [lauraliscious] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I will gather ALL Publicly available Documents and find a way to post them. It may take a little time but I will get them up soon as possible. Hopefully before this weekend.


jlmiracle  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:27 AM
Post #118 of 541 (1352 views)
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Re: [DSE] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Same question as asked above. What evidence do you have that the email address was removed for the reason cited above?
If it's true, it's wrong. But is it true? Cite the source.

the evidence is gone the uspa shredded the link to e-mail the full board.

If not wanting to hear from the members is not the reason, what is?

Source: Me


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:31 AM
Post #119 of 541 (1345 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just spoke to Trey from Skydive Atlanta. He told me the only reason he renewed his group membership was it is required for the Ga. Tech club to be able to jump there. It seems that the DZOs are as tired of a deaf organization(no offense BillyLaugh) asLaugh we are.


lauraliscious  (C 35895)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:42 AM
Post #120 of 541 (1320 views)
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Re: [DSE] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Same question as asked above. What evidence do you have that the email address was removed for the reason cited above?
If it's true, it's wrong. But is it true? Cite the source.

A BOD member willing to come on here and publicly make this statement is not enough of a trustworthy source??? Why don't I just send an e-mail to the whole board and ask them what the reason was, maybe they'll all give us the same legitimate reason why that e-mail address was removed. Oh, wait, I can't. CrazyUnimpressed

What, in your opinion, would be a source that was trustworthy enough to make a determination if that above statment is true or not? I am inclined to believe it to be true, considering the source. But I am also going to ask my RD about it.


lauraliscious  (C 35895)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:44 AM
Post #121 of 541 (1321 views)
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Re: [Thanatos340] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I will gather ALL Publicly available Documents and find a way to post them. It may take a little time but I will get them up soon as possible. Hopefully before this weekend.

Thank you. I have looked at a lot of them already, I should have been bookmarking them, would have made the job easier.


Unstable  (D 28930)

Jan 17, 2008, 11:46 AM
Post #122 of 541 (1318 views)
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Re: [skydived19006] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

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I did write my opinions to the BOD, cc to my RD, and cc to a drop zone owners email list. In that letter, I informed that If Ms. Meyer is removed from “OUR” BOD, I will remove my drop zone from the list of USPA Group Members, and make it known that Individual Membership is no longer required at my DZ.


Well Said, Martin. I know that Jan has been in defense of dropzones like yours for a long time, and I think that her removal would have longer reaching effects than most the people on this forum realize. I'll visit with Jesse this afternoon and see if he'll be willing to write a letter as well, I certainly know that I will.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 17, 2008, 12:02 PM
Post #123 of 541 (1288 views)
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Re: [DSE] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
USPA headquarters turned off the email address fullboard@uspa.org because one or more BOD members asked them to, because they do not want to hear from USPA members.

See now that right there pisses me off.. They are supposed to be representing THE MEMBERS...and that includes listening to WE THE MEMBERS.

Same question as asked above. What evidence do you have that the email address was removed for the reason cited above?
If it's true, it's wrong. But is it true? Cite the source.


Directly quoted from Post#72 in this thread. The Post was created by a currently sitting USPA Regional Director.

Quote:
Use uspabod@skydivehard.com to contact the entire BOD. USPA headquarters turned off the email address fullboard@uspa.org because one or more BOD members asked them to, because they do not want to hear from USPA members.


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Jan 17, 2008, 12:12 PM
Post #124 of 541 (1270 views)
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Re: [CSpenceFLY] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just sent an e-mail to Glen Bangs stating my intent to leave the USPA in Jan is removed from the board. I would suggest that anyone that feels the same to do this.


packerboy  (C 34282)

Jan 17, 2008, 12:14 PM
Post #125 of 541 (1262 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] USPA - Jan Meyer Impeachment?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Could you not just e-mail them individually? Perhaps I'm not understanding the mechanics of what getting rid of this e-mail address does? Are their e-mail addresses not public info?

Did they lock the doors, turn out the lights, and curiously peer out the bottom corner of the front window drapes at any passerby?

If you want to get a hold of them, call them. If you want to get ignored, e-mail them. It's how most business works.


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