Forums: Skydiving: Events & Places to Jump:
Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang

 


Chrisky

Oct 2, 2007, 8:58 AM
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Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang Can't Post

Hey folks, just to let u know:

What: First ever Vietnam Boogie
When: Feb 22nd - March 6th
Where: Nha Trang
More info: www.skydivevietnam.com

I've been in Nha Trang before and it is a perfect location for skydiving. The old US airbase is not being used as the transport hub anymore and the new commercial airport is about 30 km south of the city. Nha Trang has a lot to offer, like hot mineral sources and nice white sandy beaches. Snorkeling is also possible. I'm planning to go there. It'll rock! And the food is awesome.

The event will be a groundbreaker, if the officials see this may give Vietnam good tourism exposure, it will allow for repetition. Until a year ago there was no private (sports) aviation in Vietnam, now there is a paragliding and a skydiving association. Let's help them get started!
Smile


flytrybe  (D 30397)

Nov 28, 2007, 8:49 AM
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Re: [Chrisky] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

I just heard about this,
Looking into it.
Sounds exciting, i've always wanted to go to Vietnam.

Smile

benji


chinagirl  (B 30364)

Nov 28, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Re: [flytrybe] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow...that's awesome. I never even knew they had a skydive association in Vietnam otherwise, I would have looked them up when I was there last year. Nha Trang is absolutely beautiful...the view is going to be breathtaking. I wish I could go...it would be nice to visit home again.


namgrunt

Nov 28, 2007, 3:45 PM
Post #4 of 37 (3614 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

Been there
done that

but the t-shirt is worn out

my daughter her husband and mother in law are over there now
landed in Saigon and $30 air fare to Da Nang


.


chinagirl  (B 30364)

Nov 28, 2007, 5:46 PM
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Re: [namgrunt] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

Da Nang huh? That's where I was born!! Smile
Only been back once since I came here 28 years ago... Frown


namgrunt

Nov 28, 2007, 6:39 PM
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Re: [chinagirl] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

I still like fish sauces
nuck mom spelling???

daughter is on buying trip to get marble figures to sell in the states. also art work
she lives in Atlanta

her husbands mother owns a caf in Atlanta
yes and I still love real spring rolls

.


gemini  (D 24349)

Nov 29, 2007, 8:21 AM
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Re: [namgrunt] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

I spent a year 10 klicks West of Nha Trang, but my HQ was in the city. 5th SF HQ was there too.

It was a beautiful city and the South China sea was crystal clear with very white sand beaches. I believe the French called Nha Trang the Rivera of the East or something like that.

Boogie cost appears to be pretty reasonable and seems to include everything except airfare to Vietnam.


Orchid  (A 44)

Nov 29, 2007, 6:42 PM
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Re: [Chrisky] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a secluded island in Nha Trang, has a 5 star hotel ..... it's my secret get-a-way when I go to Vietnam. I was there last year and the year before that on my humanitarian trips, it's beautiful, food...excellent!

....should go, if you go early enough....you'll get to see how the Vietnamese bring in their New Year (Tet). I'm so there!


VanillaSkyGirl

Nov 29, 2007, 11:48 PM
Post #9 of 37 (3541 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh my gosh, I've always wanted to go to my late best friend's birth place. I already have a trip planned to South America in March. I would love to go to this one, though...


PsychoBob  (D 29553)

Dec 4, 2007, 4:39 PM
Post #10 of 37 (3463 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

Myself and several friends want to go but I have a few questions about the boogie like; Do you have to purchase one of the 3 packages to attend? How much is the registration fee and jump tickets if you have your own accomodations?
Which airport are the planes flying out of Nha Trang or Cam Ranh? Where exactly is the landing zone?

I've sent a couple of emails to skydivevietnam.com with my questions but I haven't gotten a reply.

If anyone knows the answers please let me know because I want to buy plane tickets as soon as possible.


voltage  (A 50649)

Dec 6, 2007, 11:46 AM
Post #11 of 37 (3424 views)
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Re: [PsychoBob] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Just a hint from someone who had problems with one of the organisers of this boogie in the past (when he used to "run" the now closed Skydive Thailand DZ):

Be sure you get satisfactory answers to your questions. It cost me alot of money to trust and don't ask the right questions to this gentleman.


Chrisky

Dec 6, 2007, 5:21 PM
Post #12 of 37 (3408 views)
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Little update [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi folks, just checked back to this (too long gone I know), so I'll try and answer some of these questions.

Just to clarify first, though, I'm NOT part of the organization team, I've just been to VN a number of times and do have some contacts there and been in mail contact with one of the organizers about me having the same questions. So, here we go:

1. Flying is out of the military airbase Nha Trang, under authority of the military.

2. Because of that, only package deals are available right now. I was peeking at the cheaper hotels in Nha Trang near the airbase, but no go. Part of the deal is that people can access the airbase as a group so access to the airbase is under control.

3. It's not the same operator/organizer as in Pattaya, even though he's (or at least the rigger) around the organizing team (my understanding !).

4. Accomodation is in the Sofitel VinPearl resort, a new (2006/7 finished) 5 star resort (not the Evason Hideaway...), so the package is a good deal counting air transfer, accomodation and tickets. I dont have a stake in this, but i did my somewhat educated math (based no my vn girlfriends input).

5. Vietnam didn't have an air sports association until late 2006, I happen to know the guy who was the driving force behind it. Smile

6. Correct spelling for fish sauce is nuoc mam (missing the right accentuation of course...) Wink

I'll be there, it'll rock!


PsychoBob  (D 29553)

Dec 10, 2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: [PsychoBob] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

Julia replied to my email and provided me with a lot of good info and answered my questions. I'm working with her right now on a package and hopefully I'll be there Mar. 1-Mar 8.

Thanks for the info Chrisky and hope to see you there.


(This post was edited by PsychoBob on Dec 10, 2007, 12:48 PM)


p_mckenna

Dec 15, 2007, 3:29 AM
Post #14 of 37 (3289 views)
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Re: [voltage] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just a hint from someone who had problems with one of the organisers of this boogie in the past (when he used to "run" the now closed Skydive Thailand DZ):

Be sure you get satisfactory answers to your questions. It cost me alot of money to trust and don't ask the right questions to this gentleman.

I have to agree with this; the same people are behind this event as wiith Pattaya DZ. Do not want to cause any trouble, yet it is known that they have many hats on as well as many chefs running around, causing problems. This extreme sports cafe thingy is sometimes not always what you see Unsure. Dissapointing...a unique event in a new country, yet I do believe, the wrong people behind it

Based in northern Vietnam, doubt that I will turn up.


voltage  (A 50649)

Dec 15, 2007, 4:05 AM
Post #15 of 37 (3290 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Little update [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
3. It's not the same operator/organizer as in Pattaya, even though he's (or at least the rigger) around the organizing team (my understanding !).

Yes it is the same person (aka Stephen Northcott). At least it is the same bank account number that received my full upfront payment in 2005. Thats 2000 Euro for 5 AFF jumps.

Hope for you the plane doesn't break down this time, though.


p_mckenna

Dec 16, 2007, 10:57 AM
Post #16 of 37 (3251 views)
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Re: [voltage] Little update [In reply to] Can't Post

It is the same person, 100% sure.

Be mindful please people, avoid dissapointment.


Chrisky

Dec 17, 2007, 4:59 AM
Post #17 of 37 (3223 views)
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Re: [voltage] Little update [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, stating the organizers to be the same persons is a bit of a bold statement based on the same bank account number IMO. Banking in Vietnam as a foreign company is complicated to say the least.

The staff (as I said at least the rigger) will most likely be from the Pattaya DZ, as it is a real challenge to put up a boogie this size (200+) without staff from the area. I know that some local (out of vietnam, not necessarily vietnamese) people are involved too, so I dont share your pessimism which i can understand based on your experience.

I'll definitely report back on my experience, which so far has been a pretty good and straight info flow.


p_mckenna

Dec 18, 2007, 6:40 AM
Post #18 of 37 (3182 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Little update [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not stating that this event may be failed success, yet the statements made are correct. Yes, you are 100% right that we share past experiences, yet these may always be continued through the whole line of conducting business...

My wish IS that it will become a success, so at least that this part of the world may become a skydiving haven...a dream?

The contact person in Vietnam is according to my information, a French guy who has not been skydiving for such a long time. Mr. Northcott on the other hand, is well-known in the region for his endeavors to forfill his own wishes...how you interpret this, is up to you.

Conclusion: let this be a success for the skydiving community and skydiving.


flyingdodo  (C 102008)

Dec 20, 2007, 1:00 AM
Post #19 of 37 (3131 views)
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Re: [p_mckenna] Little update [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi there,

This is from the Extreme Sports Cafe team.... and we felt we should at least pop our heads into this thread as there are some people with doubts perhaps...

We are really looking forward to you visting us in Vietnam along with our friends helping to organize this. It took a lot of work, and a lot of effort on the ground in Vietnam with a long term friend who lives there, and has very good connections from his personal and professional dealings in the country. He's also an ex-military skydiver with over 900 jumps. Not quite such a newbie! To date we have all been working on this for over 18 months, and have dotted every 'i' and crossed every 't'.

If anyone wants to see a copy of the official government document authorization please email info@skydivevietnam.com and request it. We'll gladly send it out, post it on the web site, or here. Just let us know. You can also contact the Vietnamese Authorities independently if you wish to check the validity of this event. Please feel free to do so.

Please also feel free to check with any of the names I mention here to see if this is genuine or not.

And please remember we have been involved in a lot of successful events also!

For the record voltage has been frequenting these forums for a while trying to cause us damage.. If you hunt around you'll see the story played out in another thread from a while ago. I won't elaborate, and wish voltage all the best in his endeavors.

With regards to Skydive Thailand.. We are still trying actively to make skydiving a permanent reality in Thailand, but the government and the culture here have managed to break several attempts by us and others for this to happen, both in the past and recently for us. To date the only successful event in Thailand is the Thai Sky Festival, which we are also involved in each year. At the moment we have handed the Skydive Thailand reigns over to a dear friend who used to run the London Parachute Club, who is hopeful of a fledgling DZ in Thailand next year.. Fingers crossed. But to be frank we needed a rest!

Please don't think I am criticizing the wonderful military support we get in Thailand, as they are 'da bomb'. We have all personally jumped with them at World Team in Udon, and for His Majesty the King's birthday at the new International Airport where we set a world record also. They all want the same as us. Permanent skydiving in the Land of Smiles, but bureaucracy and corruption elsewhere cripple most attempts.

Now to Vietnam....

Both the Thai Army and Air Force are providing their support staff to us. The Same team that do the Thai Sky Festival each year.
So cheap, good pack jobs, and fun fun fun people.
The rest of the staff are a mix of people who have been in the skydiving community for many many years and involved in many many successful events from all over the globe. Not sure where this one-man-show idea came from.

It's on 100%. Confirmed. Set in stone, and even if only 1 person turns up we'll be jumping every day for the entire period : AFF Camp and Main Boogie.

We are already half booked, which is a relief for us.
Both AFF camp, coaching camp and main event are at about 50% capacity right now.
(30% have even paid in full to our "evil corporate bank account!")

Omar (Skydiving God!), James Evered (Thai Sky Festival), Wendy Smith (World Team and Sky Fest etc. etc.), Kevin McCarthy (ex-Empuria, UK Champion & Freefallco owner) and a host of others are confirmed to be coming as organizers. We are still confirming some, but those are locked and loaded.

On general staff are Danniel Lee (Safety and Training Officee for the USPA in Asia and contactable on SkydiveAsia.org), Darel Davenport (World Team), and the team that did the Mekong River Boogie.

Planes are confirmed and booked.
Mi8, AN2, AN26. And we have availability for more, as well as us being able to set the altitude and number of jumps per day.
So if you want to jump you can!

TV coverage is confirmed.
Hotel is confirmed.
Travel packages are all arranged to get you there.
Parties, events, lazy day activities etc. etc. all done and dusted.

If anyone really has any concerns please contact us either at Extreme Sports Cafe, or Skydive Vietnam, and we can talk.

What we really want is a yearly event which is going to be a huge smash and loads of fun, and we know we've got that opportunity..

All we need is you.

Kind regards,
Extreme Sports Cafe Team / Skydive Vietnam Team.

p.s. Blue Skies and a White Christmas to all! Wink


(This post was edited by flyingdodo on Dec 20, 2007, 1:16 AM)


PsychoBob  (D 29553)

Dec 27, 2007, 5:00 AM
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Re: [flyingdodo] Little update [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the info and also for your team's hard work to organize this event. I have purchased my plane tickets and whave registered with Julia, who BTW has been a big help.

Look forward to meeting you in Nha Trang.


gemini  (D 24349)

Dec 28, 2007, 11:48 AM
Post #21 of 37 (3024 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Vietnam Boogie Nha Trang [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been to Nha Trang too! 1968 and 1969. It was a little different in those days, but still a beautiful city and great beach. I believe the French called it the Riviera of the Orient.


Chrisky

Feb 23, 2008, 8:35 PM
Post #22 of 37 (2829 views)
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First impressions [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok guys, we've arrived in Nha Trang and the weather is getting better - the 22nd/23rd february were cool and rainy, something totally off for the area and season here. On average there's only one day of rain in february and march respectively. We had two now so we should be good for the rest of the time. Wink Anyway, allowed for some relaxed time to tune in and now the sun starts burning the clouds away. Temperatures are perfect around 25-28 deg centigrade.
The hotel is very nice and the five stars are pretty much there, definitely an international four-star level if not the full five. (My experience with five-star hotels is somewhat limited...) The vibe is good and we're all eager for our first jumps.

I had a helicopter ride along the coast from Saigon to Nha Trang as there was some mixup with my travel dates, but it all worked out nicely. The flight was very interesting, nice to see the coastline all the way. There's tons of nice resorts, surprise surprise... Cool


chinagirl  (B 30364)

Feb 24, 2008, 8:21 PM
Post #23 of 37 (2775 views)
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In reply to:
Ok guys, we've arrived in Nha Trang and the weather is getting better - the 22nd/23rd february were cool and rainy, something totally off for the area and season here. On average there's only one day of rain in february and march respectively. We had two now so we should be good for the rest of the time. Wink Anyway, allowed for some relaxed time to tune in and now the sun starts burning the clouds away. Temperatures are perfect around 25-28 deg centigrade.
The hotel is very nice and the five stars are pretty much there, definitely an international four-star level if not the full five. (My experience with five-star hotels is somewhat limited...) The vibe is good and we're all eager for our first jumps.

I had a helicopter ride along the coast from Saigon to Nha Trang as there was some mixup with my travel dates, but it all worked out nicely. The flight was very interesting, nice to see the coastline all the way. There's tons of nice resorts, surprise surprise... Cool

OMG, I am so jealous!! If you can, please post some aerial pics of the surrounding area.


Chrisky

Feb 25, 2008, 9:53 AM
Post #24 of 37 (2756 views)
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Re: [chinagirl] First impressions [In reply to] Can't Post

Pics will follow. Wonderfull location, hills up to 600m (guessed) surrounding the beautiful bay city. Weather is still mixed, as there are clouds hard north of the city, but we did 3 Loads (Mi-8) today of which I made it on two. For lack of a better word it's simply AWESOME, and I cant wait until the airplanes arrive.

For now, we have to do a Passport check prior to boarding (!) and we are screened using a metal detector that goes off in all the right places. Cool And yes, I'm serious!


PsychoBob  (D 29553)

Feb 25, 2008, 12:30 PM
Post #25 of 37 (2743 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] First impressions [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Chrisky,
I'm leaving here on Friday and will be there on Sunday Mar. 2. Look forward to meeting you/


Chrisky

Feb 25, 2008, 5:38 PM
Post #26 of 37 (673 views)
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Woohooo, then we can introduce our vietnamese rodriguez brothers! Smile


futuredivot  (Student)

Feb 25, 2008, 6:52 PM
Post #27 of 37 (666 views)
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Re: [PsychoBob] First impressions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm leaving here on Friday

So, what time are you leaving Friday?AngelicAngelicAngelic


chinagirl  (B 30364)

Feb 25, 2008, 9:38 PM
Post #28 of 37 (662 views)
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In reply to:
Hey Chrisky,
I'm leaving here on Friday and will be there on Sunday Mar. 2. Look forward to meeting you/

You better come back here with pictures and video Bob! I'll be waiting patiently at The Farm....Blush


Chrisky

Feb 26, 2008, 8:43 AM
Post #29 of 37 (649 views)
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Some screengrabs [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, if you really cant wait, here are some Framegrabs from my video. First one shows me on final to the landing area with the airstrip on the left past the street (landings are usually crosswind), second and third show Omar and Steve having some fun while I try to join Wink
Attachments: NhaTrang01.jpg (30.6 KB)
  NhaTrang02.jpg (26.7 KB)
  NhaTrang03.jpg (40.4 KB)


chinagirl  (B 30364)

Feb 26, 2008, 11:59 AM
Post #30 of 37 (623 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] Some screengrabs [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow!!! Nice coastal view!!


flyingdodo  (C 102008)

Feb 26, 2008, 5:35 PM
Post #31 of 37 (615 views)
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Re: [PsychoBob] First impressions [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,

We have spent most of our time here on the ground making sure things run as smoothly as possible for our participants...

Hence there are some pictures (ground based) of the landing area and so on on our daily blog here... Yesterday we had hundreds of spectators crowding the beach, and closing the roads down in Nha Trang to watch our event. What a wonderful feeling!

http://blog.extremesportscafe.com

Our 5 Star Load Organisers have been in the air looking after people wonderfully.

Thanks to Wendy, James, Omar, Kevin, Danniel, and all of our Thai Military support staff for all their wonderful efforts to make this such a fun few days so far. Also to Cherie and Jo for helping Julia and Stephen out so much.

Congrats to Giang for moving his skydiving qualifications forward, and of course all of our Tandem Skydivers, including the Canadians who were very proud to be not only some of our first Tandems, but also the first Canadians to jump here!

Today the weather is not so good, but we will keep monitoring it, and we shall meet up with Wendy, Omar, James etc. to get some ariel shots to post on the blog.

A big thank you to our cheerful and enthusiastic, as well as understanding, participants. This has been an amazingly hard event to pull off and we are just happy that people are here, jumping, partying and providing so much entertainment for the locals both on the beach and in the Sailing Club in the evenings!!!!

Rumours of people climbing on the roofs of the golf carts at the hotel are greatly exagerated! We hope! Jose!

More later,
Extreme Sports Cafe / Mekong River Boogie Team.
Skydive Vietnam

p.s. Our best wishes for a speedy recovery to Stefan Brender who had a rough landing. We will be sure to check up on him when we return to Bangkok next month. If there are any skydivers in Bangkok he is in Bumrumgrad hospital and we are sure he would appreciate a visit.


(This post was edited by flyingdodo on Feb 26, 2008, 5:40 PM)


PsychoBob  (D 29553)

Feb 28, 2008, 5:11 AM
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Re: [Chrisky] Some screengrabs [In reply to] Can't Post

SWEEEEET!! Can't wait to get there. And Chinagirl I will make sure and bring back a lot of pics and vid!SmileSmileSmile


chinagirl  (B 30364)

Feb 28, 2008, 8:19 AM
Post #33 of 37 (553 views)
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In reply to:
SWEEEEET!! Can't wait to get there. And Chinagirl I will make sure and bring back a lot of pics and vid!SmileSmileSmile

You better! I'm holding you to it. Have a safe flight!!!


flyingdodo  (C 102008)

Mar 9, 2008, 7:22 PM
Post #34 of 37 (477 views)
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Skydive Vietnam - Post Boogie report [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello all,

There will be a post boogie report on the Skydive Vietnam website, as well as the Extreme Sports Cafe Blog this week...

In short..

THE GOOD:

* Thanks to all the wonderful participants who came to this event.
* The first week of the boogie was a resounding success.
* The "5 Star" Hotel provided a lot of amusement to all participants!
* We achieved something unique in that this was the first ever Boogie in Vietnam, which is still a Communist Country.
* We assisted in the completion of a World Record.
* We set numerous Vietnamese Records for sports parachuting.
* We introduced the Vietnamese people to our sport, and gave them a lot of pleasure as spectators.
* No one was seriously injured.
* We learned a lot. A real lot!

THE BAD:

* Some of our aircraft were cancelled.
* Not everyone got to jump as much as they wished to.
* The weather was not anything like that predicted, based on the last four years of records!

THE UGLY:

* Some of our participants were not happy.
* The organizing team made a massive loss on this event as our 'local liaisons' kept moving goal posts and raising prices. Truly, Vietnam has embraced Capitalism better than a lot of 'Capitalist' Countries!

Those participants who are not happy have all had a chance to speak to the organisers, and a round house email will be going out to all participants this week to address all the issues raised.

Thanks once again to everyone for coming... We hope to see a lot of you again at The Thai Sky Festival.

We hope to learn from this event and build a better one for next year.

Blue Skies,
Skydive Vietnam Team.


Chrisky

Mar 13, 2008, 9:43 AM
Post #35 of 37 (403 views)
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Re: [flyingdodo] Skydive Vietnam - Post Boogie report [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry to say, but someone was seriously hurt. He will fully recover, but nevertheless it was a shattered vertebrae. To me that is a serious injury. Either way, good that an ambulance was standing by and thanks to the LOs in place who handled the situation professionally, well having made the difference between full recovery and paralyzation.


p_mckenna

Mar 27, 2008, 7:08 AM
Post #36 of 37 (334 views)
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Re: [flyingdodo] Skydive Vietnam - Post Boogie report [In reply to] Can't Post

Heart through the grapevine that quite an amount of things were confirmed - also from the previous post from flyingdodo- , but when push came to shove...it all funneled. Anyone share his/her experiences about this boogie.

A first is always difficult, yet shared responsibility
ies for matters to make the participants happy somewhat was clearly lacking. Hmmm...and then ignoring an accident that was there.


goobersnuftda  (D License)

Mar 28, 2008, 10:04 AM
Post #37 of 37 (311 views)
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Re: [flyingdodo] Skydive Vietnam - Post Boogie report [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
THE UGLY:
* The organizing team made a massive loss on this event as our 'local liaisons' kept moving goal posts and raising prices. Truly, Vietnam has embraced Capitalism better than a lot of 'Capitalist' Countries!

Those participants who are not happy have all had a chance to speak to the organisers, and a round house email will be going out to all participants this week to address all the issues raised.

The initial thought I had about this boogie (being that it is starting up for the first time) is the exact same situation as HUNTING GEESE IN THE FALL WITH A SHOT GUN. Sounds weird but let me explain.

When you hunt geese, they live on the water. What you do is set up where you are going to be and let the first 3 flights of geese fly over you untouched and land in the field to feed. It is tempting but do not shoot at the first 3 flights. This established a safe flight pattern. Then, have at her and blast away at the following flights.

The Vietnamiese have NOT figured out capitalism. Capitalism is designed to be sustainable. When the very first flight of skydivers arrive and they get hosed and taken advantage of, all future skydivers learn from the sacrafice the first group went through and they find some other "field to feed in".

As skydivers and people, we can easisly spend thousands of dollars to attend a boogie. When you get some place and they have that little evil smile on their face when they completely hose and take advantage of you for $30 because they can, that is the same as a handfull of sand in your underwear. It irritates the hell out of you. Forget the thousands, it is that $30 that completely bugs the crap out of you and it is what you remember.

Screwing with the jump planes, moving goal posts and taking advantage of prices simply because you are already there and have no alternitive has to be the stupidest atempt at Capitalism.



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