Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not?

 

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mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Mar 7, 2007, 10:42 AM
Post #126 of 136 (1826 views)
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Re: Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, so a manufacturer can be the party making an alteration under AC-1052c, but according to Sun Path any such alteration has to be recorded on the packing data card... which Sun Path didn't do... so Sun Path sold containers which by their own definition were unairworthy at the time of sale??


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Mar 7, 2007, 10:48 AM
Post #127 of 136 (1819 views)
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Re: [skydivejunky] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Okay, I get a rig in to repack the reserve but it doesn't have the main and main risers, just the container and reserve.

No, if you extend Sun Path logic re the RSL shackle that couldn't occur...

...because releasing the RSL shackle in anything other than an emergency situation would be an alteration... which may only be done by a Master Rigger etc etc

So if Sun Path are right then you are effectively prevented from ever removing your risers from the container ever again... unless of course you are a Master Rigger and record the un-snapping of the shackle on the Data Card as an alteration etc etc...


fcajump  (D 15598)

Mar 7, 2007, 11:16 AM
Post #128 of 136 (1792 views)
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Re: [mr2mk1g] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Okay, I get a rig in to repack the reserve but it doesn't have the main and main risers, just the container and reserve.

No, if you extend Sun Path logic re the RSL shackle that couldn't occur...

...because releasing the RSL shackle in anything other than an emergency situation would be an alteration... which may only be done by a Master Rigger etc etc

So if Sun Path are right then you are effectively prevented from ever removing your risers from the container ever again... unless of course you are a Master Rigger and record the un-snapping of the shackle on the Data Card as an alteration etc etc...

Ah but that is simply an disassembly and reassembly of compatible components.

There... there's your loop-hole.Wink

J


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 7, 2007, 11:29 AM
Post #129 of 136 (1776 views)
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Re: [skydivejunky] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Can I pack it since I obviously can't hook up the shackle to the main risers? Or do I have to have the main to hook up the shackle? Guess I better call Sunpath and ask them eh?

You'll be ok as long as you remember to do an obligatory chastising of the skydiver about leaving the RSL in place. Tongue

(It's fun to goof on this, and I do think this is goofy, but, at the same time, I also admire SunPath for coming out and trying to effect something they feel is the right thing to do. I'll stick with them and know that even when I disagree with them, they have my safety in mind). SP has always been fantastic to me.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Mar 7, 2007, 11:37 AM
Post #130 of 136 (1767 views)
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Re: [skydivejunky] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi junky,

Quote:
Okay, I get a rig in to repack the reserve but it doesn't have the main and main risers, just the container and reserve. Can I pack it since I obviously can't hook up the shackle to the main risers?

I was just thinking the same thing later last night. It does seem as though the rigger should have the main risers there to know that they are correctly fitted to accept the Snap Shackle.Unsure

Jerry


skydivejunky  (D 22209)

Mar 7, 2007, 11:48 AM
Post #131 of 136 (1754 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not goofing really. How do I know they have risers with a ring for the shackle? Or does that not matter? Can I pack a Jav with the rsl on but not having a place to hook the shackle? Seems like that defeats the whole purpose.

John


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 7, 2007, 3:11 PM
Post #132 of 136 (1691 views)
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Re: [AMax] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As a Javelin owner I am not happy about potential complications with RSL (I don't use one). However, an idea to refuse packing Javelins in response to new Sunpath service bulletin is simply ridiculous. Fortunately, it is highly unlikely that this idea will be supported by majority of riggers in US ... LOL Wink

Not as ridiculous as you might think. There is a huge number of riggers that refuse to pack a certain 2 pin rig.


stratostar  (Student)

Mar 7, 2007, 4:57 PM
Post #133 of 136 (1664 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there an echo in here, is there an echo in here. LOL.Tongue


davepend  (D 16439)

Mar 7, 2007, 7:44 PM
Post #134 of 136 (1621 views)
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Re: [billvon] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am neither a rigger nor a lawyer, and probably not any smarter than anyone else here, but no one's seemed to notice in the text of the bulletin:

Quote:
The user can “disengage” the RSL lanyard by disconnecting the snap shackle, if in an emergency situation or to avoid a possible emergency situation ONLY.

(emphasis theirs)

The important part here is "to avoid a possible emergency situation."

As a camera flyer (or skysurfer, or CReW person) I am avoiding a possible emergency by keeping my RSL snap shackle disconnected and stowed.

Perfectly legal sounding to me (again, not a lawyer).

-dp


stratostar  (Student)

Mar 7, 2007, 9:42 PM
Post #135 of 136 (1602 views)
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Re: [davepend] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you read the orginal statement? your quoting the the new version, and YES we all took notice.


dorbie

Mar 8, 2007, 4:45 AM
Post #136 of 136 (1560 views)
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Re: [davepend] Javelin RSL.. unairworthy or not? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am neither a rigger nor a lawyer, and probably not any smarter than anyone else here, but no one's seemed to notice in the text of the bulletin:

Quote:
The user can “disengage” the RSL lanyard by disconnecting the snap shackle, if in an emergency situation or to avoid a possible emergency situation ONLY.

(emphasis theirs)

The important part here is "to avoid a possible emergency situation."

That is a much improved rewording, I'm happier.

Here's the original:

http://www.dropzone.com/...tail_page.cgi?ID=658
http://www.sunpath.com/..._answers_2-27-07.pdf

dropzone.com should update the article or at least link to the revised pdf, here's the new URL:

http://www.sunpath.com/...s/RSL_MasterV1.2.pdf

Both versions are dated 2/27 but the dropzone.com article went up on 3/6 and has the old information and links to the old version, it's still wrong as of 3/8.


(This post was edited by dorbie on Mar 8, 2007, 4:53 AM)


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