Forums: Skydiving: Instructors:
Moral Dilemma-What would you do?

 

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an_alt

Aug 10, 2007, 3:39 AM
Post #26 of 36 (2130 views)
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Redtwiga... my 2 cents...

There is no Dilemma here. Unimpressed She shouldn't be skydiving.
<snip>
I'm going to say other then to say, that if faced with a similar situation in the future, I WOULD advise them, one-on-one, NOT to jump and if they persisted with their intention to skydive I WOULD go to the DZO and S&TA and inform them of the situation and my opinion... you know what they say about opinions.

Being medically fit to skydive and/or disclosing any medical conditions which may preclude us from skydiving is in the waiver, and "Yes" we've all signed it.

Although I agree at least the S&TA should know, and I understand where you are coming from given the incident you describe, this is exactly the kind reaction which makes people lie about their medical conditions. Hell, it's the reason why i'm using this alt!

As someone replied above, epilepsy is hardly a simple affliction with clear cut borders.

As to the waiver, I "have" epilepsy, but am seizure free for close to five years. However, these seizures were of the grand-mal type, and will return if I discontinue my meds. My trigger is sleepiness, for a want of a better word.
(See http://"http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2755407#2755407"] this post for a long, long explanation of my situation.)

Does that mean I lied when I signed the waiver?
Should I discontinue skydiving? Am I more of a health hazard to other jumpers than a random know-it-all skygod who just happens not to be afflicted with epilepsy? More than any other student?
I think not.

---

If you ask me, the best thing to do for the OP is have their friend discuss their form of seizure disorder with their neurologist. What are her triggers, what type of seizures does she experience, how are her meds affecting her (side effects can occur, but the body usually adapts to them after a period of time, be it months or years) etc. etc.

After that, she should have a long quiet chat with the S&TA, and explain to him what the facts are, and why she feels she can safely skydive, insofar as that is possible with our sport.

The S&TA can then take it up with the other instructors and the DZO, if they feel they shouldn't decide on this alone.
No names need to be mentioned, just the situation explained.
If the staff are not satisfied, maybe a solution can be found. Say they are worried about the short seizure free period; maybe the OP's friend can come back after a period of time, and meanwhile enjoy the tunnel or whatever other pursuits.

At any rate, telling a person they are unfit to skydive merely because they have a scary sounding medical condition is not the solution, but neither is lying to the DZ staff, or hiding such a condition from them.

This may seem hypocritical coming from a person who posts under an alt, but as I said before, the S&TA and several trusted friends at my DZ already know, and I am gradually telling more and more people as I get to know them better. I just don't want anybody to find out this way.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Aug 10, 2007, 3:55 AM
Post #27 of 36 (2128 views)
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Re: [an_alt] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

The S&TA should require a medical clearance before allowing jumps? That has been done before.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Aug 10, 2007, 3:56 AM)


Deisel  (D 31661)

Aug 12, 2007, 10:02 PM
Post #28 of 36 (2005 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

 I've jumped with folks with all kinds of afflictions; diabetes, cancer, African-American, epilepsy, bum tickers, missing limbs, etc.
In reply to:

What the fuck is this bullshit? Since when is being Black an affliction? I like to think that I'm a pretty tolerant person, but damn. - And no one here called him on this?


livendive  (D 21415)

Aug 13, 2007, 10:50 AM
Post #29 of 36 (1949 views)
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Re: [Deisel] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've jumped with folks with all kinds of afflictions; diabetes, cancer, African-American, epilepsy, bum tickers, missing limbs, etc.
In reply to:

What the fuck is this bullshit? Since when is being Black an affliction? I like to think that I'm a pretty tolerant person, but damn. - And no one here called him on this?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you didn't see the white lettering at the bottom of his post. Wink Perhaps highlighting the text would help.

Blues,
Dave


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Aug 13, 2007, 5:37 PM
Post #30 of 36 (1891 views)
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Re: [livendive] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, Dave.

I sent him an e PM explaining _why_ and the brackets thing.

Keith


(This post was edited by BIGUN on Aug 13, 2007, 5:38 PM)


Deisel  (D 31661)

Aug 13, 2007, 9:28 PM
Post #31 of 36 (1865 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

I won't go in depth here as I do not intend to alter the subject of this thread. I don't know you or why you wrote what you did. Jokes are fine, but that was a bad one.


JoosVos  (D License)

Aug 21, 2007, 8:44 PM
Post #32 of 36 (1690 views)
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Re: [redtwiga] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not too much of a dilemma here right? You hurt a friends feelings or safe their life.

I think you should go ahead and inform the DZO and S&TA - they have a right to know

This is pretty obvious - she should not jump.

If anything it should be up to her doctor... but with her not taking medications anyway - something is going to go wrong someday

Wisdom to you! :-)


Baksteen  (C 708753)

Oct 31, 2007, 9:18 AM
Post #33 of 36 (1466 views)
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Re: [redtwiga] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm really curious:
How did this end?

And to JoosVos, I don't mean to be disrespectful but how can you say stuff like that after what everyone else said? "She should not jump" is a really easy solution to the problem.


denete  (B 33880)

May 28, 2008, 9:11 PM
Post #34 of 36 (1150 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No-brainer...Let the DZO and S&TA know...immediately.

They are the ones to make the call at that DZ...nobody else. You help hide it and you become equally responsible for anything that might happen.

Personally, if I was the DZO, I would throw her off the DZ for hiding it in the first place and proving herself untrustworthy to start with and endangering my business, my customers and the entire skydiving industry.

Up front and honest to start with is the only way.

Call me a hard-ass if you like.

You're a hard-ass. LaughLaughLaugh


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 29, 2008, 6:23 PM
Post #35 of 36 (963 views)
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

>She shouldn't be skydiving.

A doctor would be a better person to make that call.

It's all well and good to talk about who should be told and all, but in terms of whether or not she can safely skydive, a doctor's opinion is going to trump a dozen S+TA's or instructors.


Blue42

May 30, 2008, 7:49 AM
Post #36 of 36 (909 views)
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Re: [Deisel] Moral Dilemma-What would you do? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've jumped with folks with all kinds of afflictions; diabetes, cancer, African-American, epilepsy, bum tickers, missing limbs, etc.
In reply to:

What the fuck is this bullshit? Since when is being Black an affliction? I like to think that I'm a pretty tolerant person, but damn. - And no one here called him on this?

I am glad that I kept reading to this point. I didn't want to post because I am not an instrutor, but I like to see what the big dogs have to say, and this bothered me. This seemed so matter of fact. . .it's disturbing . . .I was thinking the same thing. Wow. . . .


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