Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

 

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SKYWHUFFO  (D License)

Jan 7, 2008, 11:31 AM
Post #901 of 1694 (2322 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

Ckret,

Do we know 100% there was no other "luggage" brought on by Cooper and stowed above or by sombody else left for Cooper? I.E. another passenger. I would think if there was then, 1. there was other shoes/ jumpsuit, and possibly a bag to put the money in we don't know about. Logically if you were to try to pull this off wouldn't you have some resources to pull from that you would think you might need? I would, and no I am not old enough to be Cooper! HA! It would have been somthing the crew would have paid no attention to Cooper stowing a bag or retriving a bag cause it's somthing they see a thousand times a month. I just find it hard to believe he planned this without thinking of these details if he had any jump experience, which i think he did, because he knew how to put the rig on and sounds like some limited knowledge of the different rigs. Have you ever handed a rig to a whuffo (non-skydiver)and said put it on. They look at you like a deer in the hearlights if they have never seen it before.
I have never seen the FBI stuff from that night, can you post that or say where it can be found? With just a yes or no and no more, has there been new things found by this forum for you to go on?

Blues
D


mccurley  (E 663)

Jan 7, 2008, 12:28 PM
Post #902 of 1694 (2301 views)
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     Re: [SkydiveJack] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

Just a thought, what are the chances the whoever he was, he was lucky enought to have landed somewhere near a road?
I don't know the area at all, but it seems no one knows where he actually exited, so maybee he got incredabley lucky?


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Jan 7, 2008, 12:48 PM
Post #903 of 1694 (2291 views)
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     Re: [mccurley] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Just a thought, what are the chances the whoever he was, he was lucky enought to have landed somewhere near a road?
I don't know the area at all, but it seems no one knows where he actually exited, so maybee he got incredabley lucky?

Yes he could have gotten lucky and landed near a road and a phone. But my point is that if Mayfield didn't know 100% for sure that the hijacking was already in the news he would have implicated himself by calling the guy the FBI.

Again, I not trying to say Mayfield is or isn't Cooper. I'm just pointing out a consideration about the phone call that we know he made.


SafecrackingPLF

Jan 7, 2008, 1:30 PM
Post #904 of 1694 (2271 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

Good ideas on the paper sack. We have not been told much about the appearance of this sack, though some of the documents you previously posted do mention dimensions. Did the sack appear to have a lot in it? Did it appear to be empty? Did it appear to be light or heavy?

As for me knowing a lot about Jo... she has posted on more than just this thread. There's pages upon pages here and elsewhere, plus I've found that if I send a PM through DZ, she tends to be pretty good at responding. I don't know what she thinks or feels, those were my impressions from reading her writing. I think someone(s) along the line spooked her a little.

I've already stated that I'm not in the conspiracy camp. I'm not saying there wasn't one (ie, he had help) just that there's little to say (that I know of) that there was one. I also think conspiracies in general are a nice way to explain things that can't be explained. People to this day think George W.B. conspired to get into Iraq, conspired to affect gas prices, and conspires to control almost everything that they don't like in our country. Maybe there's some truth to some of this stuff, but some people are way over the top with it.

Regarding where Cooper landed, it appears to me that since they actually went out and re-created the pressure bump through dropping a 200 pound sled, it's safe to say the pressure bump was Cooper leaving the stairs into a freefall. Therefore, there's only so many places he can land (radius) given this information, and I have not pinpointed the suspected landing zone yet (though Ckret gave me a pretty good description of it), it would appear to me that no "major" roads are within this area (such as I-5).

There are unanswered questions regarding the Mayfield theory, and I'd like to read what DBCoopercatcher would say regarding them. I made a huge post two weeks ago... I'd like to see something of this nature regarding the Mayfield theory.


BigSky  (B 28752)

Jan 7, 2008, 2:03 PM
Post #905 of 1694 (2248 views)
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     Re: [SafecrackingPLF] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

Ckret my question to you is very basic. Are you still ruling out Weber based on DNA from the tie?

If so I think we would all agree that this evidence is much less than a sure thing.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jan 7, 2008, 2:40 PM
Post #906 of 1694 (2231 views)
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     Re: [SafecrackingPLF] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

Quote:
he had a criminal record, including a bank robbery

No bank robbery for Ted; a Mom & Pop grocery store but not a bank.

BTW, his real, given first name is Teddie.

JerryBaumchen

PS) I stand by my previous statement that Ted is not DB.


mccurley  (E 663)

Jan 7, 2008, 2:44 PM
Post #907 of 1694 (2228 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

So you know who is then???Wink


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 5:40 PM
Post #908 of 1694 (2185 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

The grocery store conviction was just before the heist and one of the reasons he was in dire straights at the time.
Other things were years later. Many people in the community where he lives now refuse to believe that such a nice guy like Ted would ever do such things. It is my beleif that under the smile and handshake is evidence of sociopathic behavior.


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 6:01 PM
Post #909 of 1694 (2176 views)
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     Re: [BigSky] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

In my butt-in opinion, the DNA on the tie is not a rock solid lock, but is much more than 'much less of a sure thing.' It would be enough to shut me up about this, permanently. No conspiracy theory talk.
If I was Ted, I would drive some of my spit up to the Seattle field office and volunteer it for DNA testing to shut up an idiot like Matt Myers and clear my soiled name (well some of it.) But then if I was Ted, I wouldn't have lied about my alibi all these years and on two news programs.
I'm not holding my breath.
BTW, it was not our idea to out Ted's name in connection with this on the air. We were very careful about that for 6 years. KOIN 6 news did that for their sweeps week. We found that out from Ted when we visited with him about this. If for nothing else, there is a slight possibility that it could've been dangerous for us showing up at Ted's without that helpful heads up from KOIN. But then again, I guess we would've refused free skydiving from him, so maybe we wouldn't have been numbers 14 and 15.


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 6:09 PM
Post #910 of 1694 (2169 views)
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     Re: [SkydiveJack] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

The hijacking was in the news way before the jump after 8 PM. If I'm not mistaken, there was a news crew at the Seattle airport.


happythoughts  (D License)

Jan 7, 2008, 6:31 PM
Post #911 of 1694 (2158 views)
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     Re: [dbcoopercatcher] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

As far as DNA on the necktie, what kind of population of samples are we talking about ?

Is there 5, 10, or 20 DNA samples on the tie?
On the neck area specifically ?

Also, can someone use the DNA to say that the person had green/brown/grey eyes ? (Idiot-style TV shows provide a lot of wild fiction)


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 6:36 PM
Post #912 of 1694 (2153 views)
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     Re: [mccurley] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

I wonder if the FBI checked out the possibility with the local PD's of any stolen vehicles in the area that night. Also, I find it amazing the assumption that the only unsolved skyjacking in US history happened by sheer luck on an amateurish plan by someone with no experience or familiarity and no need for disguising himself in any way. Yes, I am overstating on purpose somewhat, but if I was the FBI and these are the assumptions, I would stick to the 'he died' story like loafers under rubber overboots.
Speaking of which, the last time you were on a commercail flight (pre 9-11), did you take notice of everyone that got on the plane and exactly what articles they brought on and stowed, including the people that got on behind you and sat in the back, when there was no reason to take note of them yet?
Even when there is reason to take note of someone, eyewitness accounts are notoriously bad. Sometimes people have a problem saying, "I just can't be sure," when they really should say that.
Take me, for example.


Ckret

Jan 7, 2008, 6:44 PM
Post #913 of 1694 (2143 views)
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     Re: [SKYWHUFFO] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

All we know is that Cooper was second to last to board the aircraft. He was carrying a (what I would describe as) briefcase and a small sized paper bag with unknown items within. No one commented that the bag appeared to contain any items of significance. i take all of that to say, I don't believe he brought any items (clothing) on the plane other than what he was wearing.

As far as someone bringing items on to the plane, there is nothing that supports that.


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 6:47 PM
Post #914 of 1694 (2139 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

Ted told Dan and I that he was a green beret. I don't know enough about his military service to know the veracity of this. I wonder if he knew the copycat, Mccoy.
Also, people have always assumed that he had no aids to navigation, accomplices, RDF, etc. It is not a fact if it is not a fact.


Ckret

Jan 7, 2008, 6:49 PM
Post #915 of 1694 (2137 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

Jo

None of the statements from any of the witnesses describe anything sticking out of the bottom of Cooper's pants.


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 6:57 PM
Post #916 of 1694 (2129 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

Because there is no evidence of a negative, does that mean you rule it out?
I repeat my question, how many people arecertain of what he had when there was no reason yet to notice him. This would be impressive. Or does the info come mostly from Tina or Florence that remeber the bag and the breifcase and that is all the baggage they remember. Did the 'magician' show them what they remember?
Himmelsbach may not know how the questions were asked (very important, of course). It is my understanding that he never interviewed them face to face.


Ckret

Jan 7, 2008, 6:57 PM
Post #917 of 1694 (2129 views)
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     Re: [dbcoopercatcher] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

Every hotel and motel was checked, every suspicious incident that occurred in the area of the probable DZ was looked into and no viable leads were developed.


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 6:59 PM
Post #918 of 1694 (2125 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

What time frame? Any vacation homes in the area?
Or maybe the guy got people to assume that he had less of a plan than he did.


dbcoopercatcher

Jan 7, 2008, 7:04 PM
Post #919 of 1694 (2123 views)
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     Re: [dbcoopercatcher] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

What is a viable lead? Who's opinion? Himmelsbach?
FBI agents throughout history have made mistakes. I think it would be a fairly safe assumption (but I'm not turning it into a fact) that some mistakes were made in this case.


Ckret

Jan 7, 2008, 7:07 PM
Post #920 of 1694 (2120 views)
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     Re: [dbcoopercatcher] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

The information I rely on most are the statements of Tina and Florence.


Ckret

Jan 7, 2008, 7:09 PM
Post #921 of 1694 (2116 views)
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     Re: [dbcoopercatcher] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

Viable lead meaning that nothing of value came from the investigation into any incident reported.


airtime1  (D 9286)

Jan 7, 2008, 7:29 PM
Post #922 of 1694 (2102 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

 
No bank robbery for Ted; a Mom & Pop grocery store but not a bank.

BTW, his real, given first name is Teddie.

JerryBaumchen

PS) I stand by my previous statement that Ted is not DB.
Jerry

Anybody ask Ralph what he thinks?

RobH


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Jan 7, 2008, 7:30 PM
Post #923 of 1694 (2102 views)
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     Re: [dbcoopercatcher] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The hijacking was in the news way before the jump after 8 PM. If I'm not mistaken, there was a news crew at the Seattle airport.

OK, so let's say it's a fact that it was in the news well before the jump. If there was a news crew at the airport do you think the police let them get close to the plane? Like where they could have been seen by Cooper? I kind of doubt it. And some people need to be reminded that there were no cell phones back then.

So again, my point is simply that if Mayfield was Cooper and he made a call to Hemilsbach 1 & 3/4 hrs. after the jump he had to be-

1. Extremely lucky to be so close to a phone.
2. 100% sure the story was in the news or else he would tip his hand.

Ckret, is it correct that the time line of Mayfield calling Hemilsbach was 1 & 3/4 hrs. after the assumed jump time?


low_pull1

Jan 7, 2008, 7:30 PM
Post #924 of 1694 (2099 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] Skyjack71 [In reply to]  

Jo, Why do you never speak of the other thread ? (on the other site) . The thread that is every bit as long as this one?


(This post was edited by low_pull1 on Jan 7, 2008, 7:34 PM)


low_pull1

Jan 7, 2008, 7:33 PM
Post #925 of 1694 (2096 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] dbcoopercatcher [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The information I rely on most are the statements of Tina and Florence.


Has Tina been a bit misleading? maybe part of this?


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