Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

 

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Ckret

Jan 3, 2008, 5:22 AM
Post #851 of 1694 (4771 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] 2003 post [In reply to]  

The test was done using the same plane (NW Flight 305) Cooper jumped from. In fact the the pilot from that flight was on the test flight. It was done using a sled that would have weighed what Cooper was reported to have weighed.


Ckret

Jan 3, 2008, 5:39 AM
Post #852 of 1694 (4769 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Jo, I am not going to enter a debate with you. You have my number call me and I'll try to answer what questions you have. The vast majority of questions you ask I have no answer for. I can, however, answer any question related to the night of the highjacking and the investigation surrounding it. For example, the training reserve Cooper jumped with had a white canopy.


SwampThing  (D License)

Jan 3, 2008, 6:32 AM
Post #853 of 1694 (4752 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
I see, was the USAF test done in flight and with a jumper leaving the AC?

No it was done without a jumper (I believe they used a sled) - the insurance company felt it too risky.

Probably not the company Duane worker for! Wink


bozo  (D 10154)

Jan 3, 2008, 7:04 AM
Post #854 of 1694 (4741 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] 2003 post [In reply to]  

 
Just some random thoughts.
I'm wondering if the oldtimers here....if they did have any real information on Cooper and his whereabouts, would they tell Agent Ckret.

I'm betting the negative.

In the very early 80s I knew a couple of longtime jumpers , from the Northwest, who swore they knew who Cooper was. They wouldnt say anymore than that.
One is now dead and the other has destroyed his brain with drugs (shades of the smuggling days).

What do you think.....would ya ...give him up?


SwampThing  (D License)

Jan 3, 2008, 8:27 AM
Post #855 of 1694 (4705 views)
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     Re: [bozo] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Just some random thoughts.
I'm wondering if the oldtimers here....if they did have any real information on Cooper and his whereabouts, would they tell Agent Ckret.

I'm betting the negative.

In the very early 80s I knew a couple of longtime jumpers , from the Northwest, who swore they knew who Cooper was. They wouldnt say anymore than that.
One is now dead and the other has destroyed his brain with drugs (shades of the smuggling days).

What do you think.....would ya ...give him up?

You bet, it's Guru! Sly


Orange1  (B 2638)

Jan 3, 2008, 8:56 AM
Post #856 of 1694 (4695 views)
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     Re: [grimmie] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
My question to you Ckret is, beside Jo Weber's accounts, and somewhat "evidence", are there any other people in the world that think their friend or loved one was DB?

Yes, Lyle Christiansen has put his brother Kenneth (now deceased) forward. He was an ex paratrooper working some lowish paid job with NWA who suddenly found enough money to buy himself a house, etc. Ckret has dismissed him on physical description and the (admittedly reasonable) argument that he would have been too well known to the crew to hijack a plane in the area he worked. But no DNA testing has been done. (Ckret, I think i have summarised this all correctly, if not please feel free to correct it!)

There was a link to one article about Christiansen some pages ago, google brings up lots.

This was the main story:
http://nymag.com/news/features/39593/

Here's another one:
http://www.startribune.com/local/11592341.html

fwiw, Lyle seems as convinced about his brother as Jo is about Duane. Ckret is quoted as saying this in the 2nd article: "I'm sure he absolutely believes his brother is D.B. Cooper," said Larry Carr, who has been the lead investigator on the case for just over a year. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you."

Ckret also says, in that article, about Christiansen:
"He had brown eyes. He was too short," Carr said. "The stewardess who spent the most time with Cooper said he had hazel eyes and that she looked up to him, and she was 5 foot 8. I'm not going to say it's not him, but I probably won't put a lot of effort into an investigation."


RPC1117  (C 37095)

Jan 3, 2008, 9:43 AM
Post #857 of 1694 (4681 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
3. How he exited the plane? Experiments with the Boeing (which Duane was aware of - remember Duane's brother was a consultant for the army for Boeing) was to back down the aftstairs to the very end and to drop off.

Hi,
I am curious about this. In an earlier post you say "The brother had not seen Duane since the 50's when his mother died..."

So, how is this relevant? The first 727 flew in 1963. The timeline just seems to long to be of any consequence for all this.

Thanks,


ryoder  (D 6663)

Jan 3, 2008, 10:04 AM
Post #858 of 1694 (4670 views)
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     Re: [SwampThing] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
What do you think.....would ya ...give him up?

You bet, it's Guru! Sly
No, it was Mark Felt.Wink
OK, maybe not, but wouldn't the irony be great!LaughLaughLaugh


Ckret

Jan 3, 2008, 11:26 AM
Post #859 of 1694 (4630 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Your correct.

The reporter got the physicals backwards in his story.


Guru312  (C 6814)

Jan 3, 2008, 11:51 AM
Post #860 of 1694 (4620 views)
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     Re: [SwampThing] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:

...the other has destroyed his brain with drugs (shades of the smuggling days).

What do you think.....would ya ...give him up?

You bet, it's Guru! Sly

Damn, guys, you gave me up that fast??!!

Just see if I give you a cut from my next caper.


low_pull1

Jan 3, 2008, 7:45 PM
Post #861 of 1694 (4527 views)
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     Re: [SwampThing] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In Reply To
landing in a tree was half the problem:

staying warm through the night was the other problem. ive slep in 20F while only using a canopy (Dry F111). stayed toasy warm. Is it possible to stay warm in wet material from a cheapo ....i believe so but am not sure. im thinking one would be warm...but still wet.

any experience sleeping in an older wet canopy?

anyone want to try? fbi man??

Camp Fire? Angelic
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

he smoked and would have had matches

yes , very possible


low_pull1

Jan 3, 2008, 8:16 PM
Post #862 of 1694 (4517 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Ckret, what happened to the butts?


low_pull1

Jan 3, 2008, 8:20 PM
Post #863 of 1694 (4517 views)
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     Re: [ryoder] 2003 post [In reply to]  

is mullins old enough?

Ross Wrobleski is too young i believe.....ross,,,your thoughts?


skyjack71

Jan 3, 2008, 8:54 PM
Post #864 of 1694 (4503 views)
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     Re: [RPC1117] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Quote from my post:
"remember Duane's brother was a consultant for the army for Boeing) was to back down the aftstairs to the very end and to drop off."
Question from RPC1117:
"I am curious about this. In an earlier post you say "The brother had not seen Duane since the 50's when his mother died..."
So, how is this relevant? The first 727 flew in 1963. The timeline just seems to long to be of any consequence for all this."

Smile
I am aware the first 727 did not appear until the 60's. I do know that the schematics of Boeing planes were at one time available to Duane prior to the death of his mother in 1958 as the story was told to me, but he was not discharged from Folsom until 1959. I am relating a story told to me by a brother who was 10 yrs older than Duane. I can only put the yrs together with the information I have.

Duane knew a lot about Boeings and other planes - and when passing an airport he would tell me the names and very specific information about many of the planes - the name of the plane, the statistics (such as engines, speeds, usage and lots of mundane things) including the history of that specific plane. Remember that he met me at the Airport Hilton - he had this childish fascination with Boeings and his face would light up just talking about them.

I do not know how this relates. but he told me about the Boeing 727 and what it could do and that it was used during a war to drop supplies and how they were dropped...this was during our marriage at the old Denver airport. I remember there was snow on the ground, but not why we were at the airport ... perhaps to pick up my daughter after a visit to see her Father in Fl. during the Christmas break.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Jan 4, 2008, 12:23 AM)


skyjack71

Jan 3, 2008, 11:50 PM
Post #865 of 1694 (4477 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Jo, I am not going to enter a debate with you. You have my number call me and I'll try to answer what questions you have. The vast majority of questions you ask I have no answer for. I can, however, answer any question related to the night of the highjacking and the investigation surrounding it. For example, the training reserve Cooper jumped with had a white canopy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I was told before the chute was red and yellow? I told the agent about that tiny little piece of cloth in Duane's wallet which I thought was a blessed holy cloth. Wondered why Duane would have one of those - he wasn't into religion. Why did that agent tell me the chute was colored - remembered feeling disappointed? I thought maybe some one gave it to him - to keep him safe.

WinkSo all we are going to talk about is the night of the jump and what is in the files? How are you going to solve a crime doing that? How is that going to help me prove or disprove anything about Duane?

UnimpressedThere is an individual who keeps telling me something else was left on the plane. Something to incriminate another individual? It was supposedly a Brigham Young pin with initials on the back. Since you can talk about what IS in the files - tell me about that....frankly I don't think this pin exists, but does it?

UnimpressedAlso in the files will be the hotel registration - don't tell me that it would have been looked at and then destroyed. It would not be professional to destroy possible evidence in such a high profile crime. All I want is a copy of that registration to compare against Duane's handwriting.

UnimpressedYou have been repeatedly asked by me and others: What happened to those cigarette butts?
Whatever became of the chain of custody - sign in and sign out? Do a little investigating about that and you might find many questions answered.

UnimpressedHas a certain agent called O'Hara ever accessed the files - and evidence? In fact with the Freedom of Information it is the opinion of many that the chain of custody on the files and the evidence should be made public. This would prevent anyone from tampering with evidence in old files. The new system prevents this from happening today - but, what about old files such as this one.? My Motto - Trust No One.

UnimpressedWhile we are at - maybe the conspiracy theory should be discussed. It is very viable you know and alive. I had promised myself that I would not bring this into the thread, but your refusal to address questions that have been running thru this entire thread has forced my hand.

UnimpressedI believe that you were asked about other suspects and you mentioned only the most recent Christiansan.

UnimpressedThere was Bob Huddleston - his friend Rizzo brought him to surface claiming he helped Bob spend his money. I contacted Rizzo after he went public - his story did not wash very well. I won't say anymore about what he and I discussed...but he is not claiming Huddleston was Cooper now is he?

UnimpressedI received a communication from a Northern up-state attorney who had a client who claimed her husband was Cooper - did they ever contact the FBI? It was my understanding from him that he was going to advise the woman not to pursue the subject.

UnimpressedHave you ever interviewed a woman who lives in WA. whose husband told her about a man walking down the highway the morning after the crime. She is still alive, but I don't know if he is. Her story was very viable, but not were the FBI was searching. You guessed it! --- In the area of question regarding Duane and later determined to be a probable area for Cooper to have landed - too late, Cooper was gone.

UnimpressedIn the files - is there not something about a boat reported missing from the Washougal area (a marina on the Columbia) a couple of days after the jump? It was assumed that teenagers had taken the boat - and released in front of the Portland Airport. As Duane said "The only way to get away with a crime is to go right back at them".

Mouse scurried out of the woods trying not to spotted by a predator and found a tiny rail car - pump, pump - what a blast. - Oh Minnie are you still there.


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Jan 4, 2008, 12:34 AM)


Ckret

Jan 4, 2008, 7:49 AM
Post #866 of 1694 (4409 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] 2003 post [In reply to]  

1) Don't have an answer for

2) No BYU stick pin with initials

3) I am not aware of a hotel registration, agents went to all of the hotels around the Portland airport in the following days, I am not aware that the effort produced any notable leads.

4) I believe I addressed this a few pages ago, I don't know where they are. I have our evidence tech's looking to see if they can find them.

the rest I don't have answer for.


(This post was edited by Ckret on Jan 4, 2008, 7:49 AM)


SafecrackingPLF

Jan 4, 2008, 12:50 PM
Post #867 of 1694 (4359 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Looks like there's a lot of posts to go through since I've been out of town!

Ckret, it looks like your efforts are certainly bringing a new life blood into the mix, and that's more than we could say before.

When I woke up on New Year's Morning, your press release was THE top story, front page, top fold, top headline of the Columbian. The Seattle Times picked up this article and ran it on the front section, back cover. Certainly the news outlets find this case somewhat newsworthy even 36 years after the fact.

In the article, or press release, you asked for someone to use satellite technology to trace the path of the money. Well, I found this funny because I promised the DZ community that I'd spend some time on this issue while I was in the area. On the 31st, I spent some time at the local library making copies of maps. I have all the maps I need to do a bit of an indepth report using satellite imagery.

I will make such a post, but please give me some time. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of streams and creeks in Clark County.

I will not be able to write a report on Cowlitz or Skamania. If Cooper landed in Cowlitz, then Cooper lived, that's all that should be said there. If Cooper landed in Skamania then this whole case is wacked out because there's bigger hills there and it wouldn't make sense for the pilots to fly over it. What I'm saying is that as long as we're talking about Clark County, then my findings will have some veracity.

My post, when made, will be short in words and long in attached photos. In the meantime, it looks like I will have a lot of catching up to do on this forum! Wow... lots of posts!


BGill  (D 28834)

Jan 4, 2008, 12:58 PM
Post #868 of 1694 (4352 views)
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     Re: [SafecrackingPLF] 2003 post [In reply to]  

thanks for your efforts. this is a really interesting case to follow.


jose9878  (D 14316)

Jan 4, 2008, 6:48 PM
Post #869 of 1694 (4297 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] Robert Wesley Rackstraw [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In 1979 Rackstraw was 35 yrs old at the time of his arrest. That would have made Rackstraw about 28 yrs old in 1971. That age just doesn't work. Not one witness put Cooper in under thirty.

This was obviously why he was released and no publicity was given to the subject. I will say viewing the photo that he appears to be older than 35 in that 1979 photo.

He was a Vietam Veteran or fall-out veteran. His tour dates are 69-70 - perhaps he was wounded and discharged. I may of course not have the records on the right Rackstraw.

There is also a Robert Wesley Rackstraw out of Nevada and owner of Stealth Constuction - a son is also listed with the company. If any of you guys live in the Reno area, you might want to check on this.

In my opinion Rackstraw could not be Cooper, but then I am also bias because of Duane's past and the many things he disclosed over the yrs.

I wouldn't completely rule out Rackstraw. Robert W. Rackstraw was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. Also, a helicopter pilot, Robert W. Rackstraw was in flight class 69-11, his tour dates were 69-70, he was in RVN Unit 11 GS 1 CAV (Pathfinders) & his call sign was Airborne Bob.

He would have been out of the military in 1971 & would have been familiar with flight/airborne operations and wilderness survival. May not be the same Rackstraw but I still wouldn't completely rule him out.


(This post was edited by jose9878 on Jan 4, 2008, 7:38 PM)


Ckret

Jan 4, 2008, 7:34 PM
Post #870 of 1694 (4283 views)
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     Re: [SafecrackingPLF] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Thanks for you help, I look forward to what you come up with. It's been 36 years so there is no rush on your work.


skyjack71

Jan 5, 2008, 3:30 AM
Post #871 of 1694 (4239 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Ckrets - Reply
In reply to:
3) I am not aware of a hotel registration, agents went to all of the hotels around the Portland airport in the following days, I am not aware that the effort produced any notable leads.

SmileDid you not get the email I sent to you with the message from the witness in China? I did not give the phone number to you, but in that email he said that you could contact him.

UnimpressedThe FBI did not seek him out in 1971 - he called the next day to report that a man had spent the night there who matched that description...and he told me what transpired when the agent came to the hotel.

The agent watch as he pulled the card and told him not to touch it and placed in plastic for finger prints. He does not know what happened after that . The hotel I understand is not there anymore and it had maybe 3 new owners after the skyjack.

When I asked for details on the hotel - like what was near it... I inquired about a piano bar and was told that one was next door - I assume in the hotel.. Duane always sought out the nearest piano bar. There was not a player for Thanksgiving eve, but one of the residents was picking out a tune on the piano and trying to get everyone to sing. (Obvious it was very near if he could hear).

CrazyThe night clerk told me a couple of other things, but may be due to the power of suggestion. If you ask me about them on the phone I will tell you, but I won't remember to tell you - it's called Old Timers - I think. Some things are best not discussed in a forum.

WinkThe man signed the registration and provided the required information. Duane's handwriting I have samples of over the yrs for comparisons - an individuals handwriting does change. Duane was left handed.

TongueThis is another question I have ASKED and ASKED over the yrs. Surely the stewardess noted which hand Cooper held his cigarette in---.
Duane was able to use both hands for most task, but I doubt he would have held up under stress. Did he sit on the right or left of the plane? Which hand did he keep on the briefcase of "flares"? I would keep the opposite hand on it to be able to use my good hand for protection and or to eat and smoke with, but that is me.

I have noticed that one or two of the emails that I sent to you were not able to get thru - reply - user over quota...cannot receive new mail. I have sent three in total 12/09/07,12/15/07 and 12/29/07 I am not sending anymore until I know they are being received.

"Mouse pumped real hard all the while looking for a marker. He leaped for joy - that ole man did him good - as the sunrises the hole was not far."


(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Jan 5, 2008, 3:35 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 5, 2008, 8:48 AM
Post #872 of 1694 (4194 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] 2003 post [In reply to]  

Quote:
"Mouse pumped real hard all the while looking for a marker. He leaped for joy - that ole man did him good - as the sunrises the hole was not far."

Jo with all do respect, I have told you in a number of our PM exchanges that by talking in riddles, that only you and maybe one or two other people might MAYBE understand, only makes you look like the nut case that many people think you are, yes even the FBI have you filed as a nutcase!

Who do you think your trying to reach by posting that crap? Some old fart who would know the key to the riddle your posting? Guess what their not on here reading that shit! Unless your only point is to poke at agent Ckrets to try to get him to listen to you or you think some other old fart on here would know what the hell your beating around the bushes about.

I have tried to be nice in telling you this. You don't seem to get it or care? YOU LOOK LIKE A FUCKING NUT CASE IN YOUR POSTS!

If I was the FBI I would blow you off too and not want to deal with your rambling on in riddles & hints to shit that no one knows what the fuck your talking about and the more you carry on in this manner the more 99.9% of people will only come to think, "there is old nut case rambling on again" and blow you off and not care to read what you have to say!

If you got proof or info you want people to take serious then you MUST stop with the talking in circles!

Minnie fucking mighty mouse, what are we trying to solve who knocked off Mickey or what? NO were talking who was DB Cooper here!


Ckret

Jan 5, 2008, 1:52 PM
Post #873 of 1694 (4141 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] 2003 post [In reply to]  

I am not trying to be a mod but I think we should do the best we can to keep things civil. Behind everyone of these post is a human being.


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 5, 2008, 2:15 PM
Post #874 of 1694 (4135 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] 2003 post [In reply to]  

I have been one of the few to defend and support Jo on here, and I still do to a point, hell I like her as a person, but enough is enough already. All she is doing is giving those who this whole time said she is nuts more reason to keep calling her that and blow off every post from her, kind of like the "girl who cried DB COOPER, DB COOPER!"

For christ sake you don't even reply to her and it's almost at the point I won't read her posts because I get dizzy going in circles. Why don't you use some of my tax dollars and fly her out there to your office and sit down with her already and hear her out and look at all her crap she says she has and put this shit to rest once and for all, so we can move on!


(This post was edited by stratostar on Jan 5, 2008, 2:20 PM)


Guru312  (C 6814)

Jan 5, 2008, 9:08 PM
Post #875 of 1694 (4070 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] 2003 post [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I am not trying to be a mod but I think we should do the best we can to keep things civil...

Comments such as those made by Stratostar--to which Ckret is responding--have been made regarding Skyjack71 since the fifth posted response in this thread, which Skyjack71 started, when DJL commented like this:

"Seriously guys, you're just being mean. Don't you have better things to do than pick on old ladies on the internet. Who cares if she's on a wild goose chase."

Jo has written...often!...that she isn't interested in any theory or speculation which doesn't have her ex-hubby in DB Cooper's shoes. Historically, she has, in my estimation, not taken kindly to folks, such as myself, who hold to a perspective different than her own.

I have been fascinated with DB since the afternoon that guys in my shop and myself--all jumpers and pilots--heard a news broadcast about his exploit and from which I got the inspiration for my hijacking advert.

Jo Weber chooses to ignore any thoughts or evidence which doesn't agree with her perspective, which is that a bullshitting con artist and ex-convict--who she married--was telling the truth for once in his life when he said he was the world famous hijacker DB Cooper.

Mrs. Weber fails to realize how many bar-fly-skydiver-wannabes use the line "I'm a skydiver and really cool; wanna go to bed with me?" for picking up chicks.

If a guy is going to use the very old "I'm a skydiver" line, he may as well go all the way with the bull crap and claim to be D B Cooper. That's what I'm convinced Duane Weber did with Jo.

While I understand Ckret's desire for civil dialog, I think that with him not being a jumper, he doesn't know that we jumpers call "Bullshit!" a whole lot sooner than those in the non-jumping wuffo public. I don't want to sound all philosophical here, but, after nearly 50 years of hanging around jumpers and pilots, I'm convinced that, overall, we jumpers are more honest, straight forward and "no bullshit" than the public in general.

From the traits that Jo has written about her husband, I don't think Duane meets the FBI profiler "got enough balls" requirement for jumping out of an airplane as a tandem passenger--let alone the balls to jump alone at night out of a 727 from ten grand into the cold and the rain.

The real DB Cooper lost his payload during opening shock. Jo Weber lost her objective perspective on reality when she fell in love with a con artist in a piano bar.


(This post was edited by Guru312 on Jan 5, 2008, 9:14 PM)


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