Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

 




Zing  (D 6343)

Nov 21, 2006, 9:58 PM
Post #2 of 1694 (24277 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Please ... do post the photos of the fellow. A picture is worth a thousand words, and, as one of those old farts who's memory is better at faces than names ... pictures would be a great help.
Denny (Bear) Gaynor, recently passed away, but back in the early ninties, I used to sit and chat with him between flying loads. Bear always said he knew who really was D. B. Cooper, but would not reveal the identity until all involved were dead.


jtval  (D 26340)

Nov 21, 2006, 9:59 PM
Post #3 of 1694 (24272 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

didnt you post this last week?




mrGuy

Nov 22, 2006, 1:04 AM
Post #5 of 1694 (24223 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

A photo of the bear that licked his remains clean in the woods might be of some help.

Seriously, this is just stupid. The guy who jumped in that storm, died in the woods, and parts of his stolen loot was recovered many years later in the mud.

If in fact you're serious...(stranger things have happened)...the guy you were married to just liked to tell stories. Some folks just aren't satisfied with an occasional appearence on "COPS", and need more exposure to enjoy life. So my advice is to concentrate on getting that roof fixed on the mobile home, setting up your blinking, multi-colored manger scene for christmas, and toasting his memory by drinking another fifth of Jack. Smile


akarunway  (A 143885)

Nov 22, 2006, 2:49 AM
Post #6 of 1694 (24206 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
A photo of the bear that licked his remains clean in the woods might be of some help.

Seriously, this is just stupid. The guy who jumped in that storm, died in the woods, and parts of his stolen loot was recovered many years later in the mud.

If in fact you're serious...(stranger things have happened)...the guy you were married to just liked to tell stories. Some folks just aren't satisfied with an occasional appearence on "COPS", and need more exposure to enjoy life. So my advice is to concentrate on getting that roof fixed on the mobile home, setting up your blinking, multi-colored manger scene for christmas, and toasting his memory by drinking another fifth of Jack. Smile
Hey. Let me tell you some of my SEAL stories. Alas. I have to go dig up pics. I think (know) the CIA stole them. I'm sure D. Cheney and Bush and Co. were involved too!. Bastrds


DJL  (C License)

Nov 22, 2006, 4:43 AM
Post #7 of 1694 (24182 views)
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     Re: [akarunway and mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Seriously guys, you're just being mean. Don't you have better things to do than pick on old ladies on the internet. Who cares if she's on a wild goose chase.


tsalnukt

Nov 22, 2006, 5:45 AM
Post #8 of 1694 (24149 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

You guys really suck.....whether this is a real thing or not...how the ?$#! do you know. She's not asking for money and she's not asking you to step away from your computer to put on hip waders and go trekking through the woods looking for some dead guy you may or may not find. I believe all she wants is ANYONE that MAY know ANYTHING to help her out and look at some photo's. That doesn't sound very difficult. How would you like it if you were trying to find out SOMETHING about WHATEVER and you went to the LARGEST source there is to find out ANY kind of information and some jerks told you to go sh....t in a hat. I'll help the lady. You idiots should grow up


sartre

Nov 22, 2006, 5:58 AM
Post #9 of 1694 (24140 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
So my advice is to concentrate on getting that roof fixed on the mobile home, setting up your blinking, multi-colored manger scene for christmas, and toasting his memory by drinking another fifth of Jack.



So she's trailer trash because she's trying to follow up on claims her dead husband made prior to passing away?

There's no reason to be an ass. If you have nothing constructive to contribute, why don't you just show some class and and say nothing?Unsure


Michele  (B 26874)

Nov 22, 2006, 6:10 AM
Post #10 of 1694 (24123 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

MrGuy, you're outta line. Akarunway, I think you're pretty close, too.

Someone is asking for help. If you have no ideas or suggestions to offer, perhaps not posting to her threat would've been a really, really good idea. To refrain from making assumtions about lifetstyle, judgments about same, and especially to base it on absolutely NO information shows your disdain and contempt for someone you don't even know.

I certainly hope you are not ever in a position to ask for information from strangers. If perhaps you are, I most certainly hope your needs are met with far greater respect and helpfulness than you two have shown.

(Akarunway, you have shown me sympathy and offered me help in the past...I'd like to think you would extend the same sort of courtesy and hand of friendship to someone else, too.)

Ciels-
Michele


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Nov 22, 2006, 6:21 AM
Post #11 of 1694 (24116 views)
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     Re: [tsalnukt] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Unfortunately you are seeing more and more people act like this on the forum.Someone started a thread about it recently.I just don't get it.If you don't want to or can't help someone why not just go on to the next thread or to the Speakers Corner if you need to be an ass.


jtval  (D 26340)

Nov 22, 2006, 6:50 AM
Post #12 of 1694 (24092 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I started this thread tonight, because I thought it should get its own slot. I kept getting lost trying to find the places that I had posted to.

Oh,
ok than.

i though i saw this before just wasn't sure why you didn't post to the other post. Now I know...and knowing is half the battle.Laugh (sorry for the G.I. joe reference)


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2006, 7:09 AM
Post #13 of 1694 (24075 views)
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     Re: [CSpenceFLY] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Spence I agree.

To everyone else... knock it off and let her post the pictures if she has them. If you can't contribute to the conversation then don't post to that thread. There are lots of other threads out there that you can post to that will let you see your name beside a post. Tongue


Douva  (D 22772)

Nov 22, 2006, 8:43 AM
Post #14 of 1694 (24026 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
A photo of the bear that licked his remains clean in the woods might be of some help.

Seriously, this is just stupid. The guy who jumped in that storm, died in the woods, and parts of his stolen loot was recovered many years later in the mud.

If in fact you're serious...(stranger things have happened)...the guy you were married to just liked to tell stories. Some folks just aren't satisfied with an occasional appearence on "COPS", and need more exposure to enjoy life. So my advice is to concentrate on getting that roof fixed on the mobile home, setting up your blinking, multi-colored manger scene for christmas, and toasting his memory by drinking another fifth of Jack. Smile

Dear Mr. DeWitte:

Nothing speaks to a person's character or lack thereof more than the criticism he or she chooses to inflict on others. Your cruel, unwarranted personal attack against a woman whose only crime is trying to find out more about the man she loved suggests that you, Mr. DeWitte, suffer from a serious lack of character. That you not only criticized her objective but also felt it necessary to question her motivation and make disparaging inferences about her lifestyle suggests you not only suffer from a serious lack of character but are also embarrassingly deficient in basic maturity. I think I speak for just about everyone hear in asking that you not only refrain from making further posts on dropzone.com but also find a new sport and/or hobby, so as not to further taint the image of skydiving with your presence.

Sincerely,

W. Scott "Douva" Lewis


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2006, 9:04 AM
Post #15 of 1694 (23998 views)
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     Re: [Douva] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Y'all are bringing a tear to my eye. Smile


mamajumps  (A License)

Nov 22, 2006, 9:09 AM
Post #16 of 1694 (23988 views)
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     Re: [Douva] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Thanks guys & ladies for standing up for the lady who is only looking for possible info. I know if I was in her shoes, and my late husband had dhared something that significant with me, I would chase the ends of the world trying to prove or disprove it. I hope she finds the answers she's looking for.Smile


Skyrad  (B License)

Nov 22, 2006, 9:13 AM
Post #17 of 1694 (23979 views)
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     Re: [Douva] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
A photo of the bear that licked his remains clean in the woods might be of some help.

Seriously, this is just stupid. The guy who jumped in that storm, died in the woods, and parts of his stolen loot was recovered many years later in the mud.

If in fact you're serious...(stranger things have happened)...the guy you were married to just liked to tell stories. Some folks just aren't satisfied with an occasional appearence on "COPS", and need more exposure to enjoy life. So my advice is to concentrate on getting that roof fixed on the mobile home, setting up your blinking, multi-colored manger scene for christmas, and toasting his memory by drinking another fifth of Jack. Smile

Dear Mr. DeWitte:

Nothing speaks to a person's character or lack thereof more than the criticism he or she chooses to inflict on others. Your cruel, unwarranted personal attack against a woman whose only crime is trying to find out more about the man she loved suggests that you, Mr. DeWitte, suffer from a serious lack of character. That you not only criticized her objective but also felt it necessary to question her motivation and make disparaging inferences about her lifestyle suggests you not only suffer from a serious lack of character but are also embarrassingly deficient in basic maturity. I think I speak for just about everyone hear in asking that you not only refrain from making further posts on dropzone.com but also find a new sport and/or hobby, so as not to further taint the image of skydiving with your presence.

Sincerely,

W. Scott "Douva" Lewis

Well said


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Nov 22, 2006, 12:40 PM
Post #18 of 1694 (23900 views)
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     Re: [mamajumps] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Thanks guys & ladies for standing up for the lady who is only looking for possible info. I know if I was in her shoes, and my late husband had dhared something that significant with me, I would chase the ends of the world trying to find the money. I hope she finds the answers she's looking for.Smile


There I fixed it for you.Laugh


livetofall  (C 33795)

Nov 22, 2006, 1:07 PM
Post #19 of 1694 (23873 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Mr. Guy, if you have been around skydiving enough (if you even do as is some cases on these boards) you would know that Parachutist magazine had quite an article on him about a year ago or so. Its figured he might have actually landed somewhere by White Salmon, I believe. I can speak for personal experience he could of even had a bad fall at end and been fine. 2 yrs ago I hit the last tree branches(stopping forward flight) in high winds at Crosstrees..oops Crosskeys (damn rotors) and fell 40 feet onto knees. I got away with a compressed L-1 vertabrae, and only had to wear a corset(backbrace). Back to work(construction) in 10 weeks. Fact is it rains ALOT here, and ground could have been very soft. Maybe he made it, maybe he didn't, but he's still our Bigfoot, so quit pissing on our parade.

I havent been around but 5 yrs, but this could get very interestingSmile


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Nov 22, 2006, 1:14 PM
Post #20 of 1694 (23861 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

skyjack71:

Here's a link to make it easier to find all the posts you have made:

http://tinyurl.com/yyahml

This automatically does a search for all of your posts, starting with your most recent. It should make it easier to keep track of your own posts.

I am impressed at your researching and am respectfully watching this exciting story from the sidelines with an open mind, without interfering. I am just a relative "newbie" who literally born after D.B. Cooper started jumping.


Zing  (D 6343)

Nov 22, 2006, 2:26 PM
Post #21 of 1694 (23814 views)
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     Re: [Douva] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Thanks for so eloquently saying what needed to be said.


Consider for just a moment, what if he really was the guy? Even if it doesn't solve the mystery, it certainly will add to the mystique.


jheadley  (D 28710)

Nov 22, 2006, 2:27 PM
Post #22 of 1694 (23815 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

This is a photo of duane weber from the Wikipedia article on D.B Cooper. The right picture is the FBI's drawing of D.B Cooper
Attachments: Duane_Weber.gif (21.4 KB)


Ashtanga

Nov 22, 2006, 2:29 PM
Post #23 of 1694 (23807 views)
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     Re: [jheadley] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

It looks like a relative of Frenchy. Unimpressed


mrGuy

Nov 22, 2006, 4:30 PM
Post #24 of 1694 (23770 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

HOLY CRAP.

Are you guys for real?? Unbelievable.

I'm gonna contact those people in Nigeria....they'll be happy to know that the Gullible Pool has been filled to overflowing.


Dragging MY NAME through the mud?

WHERE ARE THE MODS?? It's ok to attack a REAL PERSON like me, but NOT ok to JOKE about an anonomous poster?? I see your true colors.

I haven't once been pissed about any stupid ass thing I've read on here...but this is too much. You guys make the most disgusting comments/remarks/comentary ever typed online...and you have the nerve to question my character. Too fuckin rich. Bunch of babies. Come around Jumptown sometime and introduce yourself. I'll be the one who excuses himself in search of better company.


(This post was edited by mrGuy on Nov 22, 2006, 4:44 PM)


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Nov 22, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #25 of 1694 (23732 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I think two of the Mods have been here and pretty much agreed with the rest of us.Weather something is true or not does not give anyone the right to be a dick.Not saying that you are a dick because that would be a PA and everyone knows I don't do that.Have a nice day.Maybe you would like the Speakers Corner.


mrGuy

Nov 22, 2006, 4:55 PM
Post #26 of 1694 (6315 views)
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     Re: [CSpenceFLY] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

That was a rhetorical remark I made regarding the Moderators. Sorry you missed it. And actually, I believe I do have the right to be a "dick" as you put it. Just like everyone here has the right to be a "dick" about my post. Not that I'm calling any of you "dicks" of course.


However, I wasn't being a "dick." I was making a joke about a topic that seems to be sacred to many of you, regardless of the evidence. So Happy Thanksgiving.


Michele  (B 26874)

Nov 22, 2006, 5:22 PM
Post #27 of 1694 (6299 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
WHERE ARE THE MODS?? It's ok to attack a REAL PERSON like me, but NOT ok to JOKE about an anonomous poster?? I see your true colors.
Does that mean you're leaving?

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Ciels-
Michele


stratostar  (Student)

Nov 22, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #28 of 1694 (6290 views)
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     Re: [mrGuy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
but NOT ok to JOKE about an anonomous poster??

First of all dimwit, it's Mrs. Duane Weber NOT an anonomous poster, as she has made very clear as to who she is and why she is here in more then one post.

And just how do you know 100% he died that nite, because some cash was found?
Let's see, he jumped out of a jet, more then enough blast on exit to lose some of the cash.
But with your whole one year in the sport I guess you already know this.

Quote:
Come around Jumptown sometime and introduce yourself.
Quote:

I think ,NOT!
But maybe you could post your grandmothers phone number so we call her up and be as rude as you, to her, my guess is you wouldn't care much for some talking that way to your grandmother if she was looking for info on you here.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2006, 7:45 PM
Post #29 of 1694 (6253 views)
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     Re: [ALL] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

This is a warning to pretty much everyone in this thread. Calling each other names does not fly in the fourms. If you want to help the original poster please do so. She has contacted a few people off the fourms and seems to have some info that might shed some light on this mystery. Please treat each other as you want to be treated in these fourms, breaking that rule will quickly find you in a time out Sly


mrGuy

Nov 22, 2006, 8:15 PM
Post #30 of 1694 (6236 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Understood




Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2006, 11:39 PM
Post #32 of 1694 (6187 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

A few things I found awhile back.

http://home.earthlink.net/~quade/dbcooper.html

http://www.cnn.com/...db.cooper/index.html

http://www.npr.org/....php?storyId=1080901

Not that any of those actually is proof of anything, but are information for those unfamiliar with the details or are interested in hearing a bit more about it.




Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2006, 11:55 PM
Post #34 of 1694 (6185 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Just curious, why does it matter?

By "proving" he was D.B. Cooper one of life's little mysteries goes out the window and a man that is for some a folk hero is taken from mythical proportions to that of a common mortal.

Isn't it actually "better" if it's never proven either way? The story never ends and the legend continues.


(This post was edited by quade on Nov 22, 2006, 11:56 PM)


sartre

Nov 23, 2006, 6:04 AM
Post #35 of 1694 (6130 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

It matters because she was married to this man. If you were in the same shoes, wouldn't it be difficult for you to just 'let it rest'?
Smile


CSpenceFLY  (D 25252)

Nov 23, 2006, 6:34 AM
Post #36 of 1694 (6115 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

It matters because of all the people that said he could not have done it and survived.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 23, 2006, 6:45 AM
Post #37 of 1694 (6109 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Just curious, why does it matter?

By "proving" he was D.B. Cooper one of life's little mysteries goes out the window and a man that is for some a folk hero is taken from mythical proportions to that of a common mortal.

Isn't it actually "better" if it's never proven either way? The story never ends and the legend continues.


Quote:


Maybe I can offer an answer, not trying to put words in Jo's mouth but she & I have been corresponding and I think I may understand somewhat.


Imagine being married to someone that you 'thought' you knew and were close to, living a 'normal' life....then your mate takes ill and passes. Suddenly you are basically blindsided by the realization that you've ( quite possibly and ) unknowingly shared your life with a 'folk hero' the likes of a Jesse James.

You begin doing some basic research to find out just how much of, that part of, YOUR LIFE may have been a lie, the deeper you dig the more you come to understand that pretty much your entire life, for that period of time anyway....

...could have been a sham, or at least not what you were led to believe, by the person you most trusted.

Wouldn't you too want to know the TRUTH about YOUR life?

The D.B. Cooper that WE turned into a folklore anti-hero may have been the guy this woman gave her heart to under false pretences. Jo Weber didn't even know who D.B. Cooper WAS when her husband claimed to be him...If anyone has a interest in knowing the truth...SHE DOES.




To address some of the rather distasteful comments directed toward Jo~

She came to 'us' for some possible help and insight...she's not an Internet 'troll' trying to scam you out of your precious post whoring, she didn't even know WHERE on this site to ask and get the most response until I discussed it with her.

Check her posts...She's asking for our help...
not money, not 'attention', she's not even 'stirring the pot' by negatively addressing those who insult her.

Just asking if anyone is on here from 'back in the day' that may have come across someone answering to one of the many aliases she discovered her husband was using.

A simple plea for assistance with information, something we in the 'Skydiving Family' should be at least somewhat as curious about, as she is...

For some reason there are those in our 'family' that think it fit & proper to insult and degrade in an attempt to discredit a woman who only asked our help in seeking the truth.

I told Jo... 'It wouldn't hurt' to start a thread in the Bonfire since that seems to be the forum frequented most...

Guess I was wrong because it did hurt...it gave 'Our Family' a bit of a black eye in regard to how some of us, treat people that come here for help.Unsure


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Nov 23, 2006, 11:42 AM)


piisfish

Nov 23, 2006, 6:53 AM
Post #38 of 1694 (6095 views)
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     Re: [Michele] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I see your true colors.
and that's why I loooove you Tongue


Michele  (B 26874)

Nov 23, 2006, 7:03 AM
Post #39 of 1694 (6089 views)
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     Re: [piisfish] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
and that's why I loooove you
So don't be afraid, to let them show...Cool

'Twardo, some people are here to help if they can, and are curious to see what transpires if they can't help. I think it's great that you've been doing your best to help Jo out. You're right - she's asking for nothing other than didja know this guy. Not money, not fame, not anything other than help that only a few can give.

I'd be very interested to know, as well. Howeve, I disagree with your statement that her life was a lie. Her life wasn't. She loved true, and she didn't lie about that. Whom she loved was whom she loved. If he hid things from her, that's his issue...and does not reflect on her. Yes, of course I understand the curiousity; as an adopted child, I had to seek and find my birth family. I know that sort of driving curiousity. But it doesn't mean anything that Jo felt/feels for the man she loved was a lie - from her. perhaps from him, but not from her.

Not saying you said that, just wanted to reach out to Jo and let her know what I thought - love, honest love, is never a lie.

Ciels-
Michele


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Nov 23, 2006, 7:14 AM
Post #40 of 1694 (6072 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I just made a long Post and then lost it all.
I suppose it is just as well. I had addressed a lot of the questions that many of you have, but now it is late and I just cannot do it over again. Tonight is the 35 th anniversary.
A suggestion;

In the future, you may wish to make your long posts within Microsoft Word, or WordPerfect, or another word processor with an auto-save feature. Then you can Copy-and-Paste into Dropzone.com. It is a good idea when writing long posts that take more than one hour.

P.S. I am in agreement with airtwardo here. Many of the earlier posts look very authentic, if someone reads every single post listed within http://tinyurl.com/yyahml ... I am anxious to see these photos and hope you are corresponding with someone helpful such as airtwardo to actually get them posted. More people needs to give you the benefit of doubt, as I have been following this story more closely than many of the other dropzone.com members who didn't read all of her earlier posts in all of the separate threads that lead credence to giving courteous and polite non-sarcastic benefit of doubt to this person.


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Nov 23, 2006, 7:19 AM)


GrabGrass  (D 666999)

Nov 23, 2006, 7:41 AM
Post #41 of 1694 (6020 views)
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     Re: [CSpenceFLY] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
It matters because of all the people that said he could not have done it and survived.


Yeah...the ones who's KIDS probably now jump the jet at WFFC!WinkSly


Amazon  (D License)

Nov 23, 2006, 8:31 AM
Post #42 of 1694 (5996 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Personally... I think he could have done it and survived....

I started jumping that kind of gear all those long years ago.....and have hundreds of round jumps..

I have hunted all over that area.... and know it well...and tree landings are not all tha hard to do....been thereCrazy

Jumping a jet... HELL there are a bunch of people who have done it and..... OMG... survived.


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 23, 2006, 9:12 AM
Post #43 of 1694 (5982 views)
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     Re: [Amazon] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Personally... I think he could have done it and survived....

I started jumping that kind of gear all those long years ago.....and have hundreds of round jumps..

I have hunted all over that area.... and know it well...and tree landings are not all tha hard to do....been thereCrazy

Jumping a jet... HELL there are a bunch of people who have done it and..... OMG... survived.


In reply to:

Very interesting!

Now if I can just keep you on the line until a field agent can get there.....Tongue


NickDG  (D 8904)

Nov 23, 2006, 11:23 AM
Post #44 of 1694 (5945 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 
I've been following Jo's story since last year when it was first publicized and can only imagine what she's going through . . .

I started jumping a few years after the incident occurred, but even in 1975, few nights around the bonfire passed without some mention of who DB Cooper really was. The central point of discussion, at the time, was if DB Cooper was an experienced jumper or not?

It would seem pretty crazy (to us jumpers) to plan the whole thing and leave the "getaway" to such chance without some prior experience. But then again we know people who don't jump think what's the big deal? You jump, you pull the thing, and you land.

But, there are several things that don’t make sense – and I could be wrong – but I always figured an experienced jumper would have carried a personal rig onboard, rather than request the two (or three) parachutes, like he did along with the ransom money. The point of asking for more than one parachute made sense, as there would be the chance he forced one or more of the remaining crew members to jump also, and this would preclude sabotaging the rigs in any way.

There was also enough time between the takeoff, with the money and rigs, and the jump, that he could have opened a rig and did a quick I&R before jumping.

Everyone at the time had their personal theory on who DB Cooper was. My guess was a certain local gear manufacturer in Lake Elsinore who was the right age and looked a bit like the description and the sketch . . .

Another idea floated was there was no DB Cooper at all. The whole thing was a story offered up by the flight deck and cabin crew who threw the empty rigs out the back and kept the money for themselves. This is somewhat plausible as, I believe, not one of the released passengers said they ever saw the guy.

On the other side, the practical side, we see that even today, local authorities - all the way up to the FBI – don’t know butkus about parachutes and jumping. So we don't really know how much information that exists is even credible. They probably weren't even asking the right questions.

As for the small amount of the money found, yep, I would have scattered some of it too. DB Cooper probably figured the authorities would first conclude such a jump was impossible and this played into that theory.

However, the WX was so bad in the area of the jump; an experienced jumper would have probably avoided that and picked another flight.

In any case, Jo deserves to know if the man she lived a life with was something other than what she thought he was . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 23, 2006, 11:30 AM
Post #45 of 1694 (5939 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

and I could be wrong – but I always figured an experienced jumper would have carried a personal rig onboard, rather than request the two (or three) parachutes, like he did along with the ransom money.

In reply to:

He couldn't...he had the 'bomb' as a carry on and skydiving was 'conventional' gear back then...

...you know what a problem it is, to try to smuggle that THIRD carry on bag ! Wink


adobelover  (C License)

Nov 23, 2006, 11:32 AM
Post #46 of 1694 (5935 views)
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     Re: [Douva] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Dear Mr. DeWitte:
Nothing speaks to a person's character or lack thereof more than the criticism he or she chooses to inflict on others. Your cruel, unwarranted personal attack against a woman whose only crime is trying to find out more about the man she loved suggests that you, Mr. DeWitte, suffer from a serious lack of character. That you not only criticized her objective but also felt it necessary to question her motivation and make disparaging inferences about her lifestyle suggests you not only suffer from a serious lack of character but are also embarrassingly deficient in basic maturity. I think I speak for just about everyone hear in asking that you not only refrain from making further posts on dropzone.com but also find a new sport and/or hobby, so as not to further taint the image of skydiving with your presence.

Sincerely,
W. Scott "Douva" Lewis
I don't think I could have said this any better! Thank You Douva Laugh

I love a good mystery...let's see some photos.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Nov 23, 2006, 12:21 PM
Post #47 of 1694 (5906 views)
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     Re: [sartre] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
It matters because she was married to this man. If you were in the same shoes, wouldn't it be difficult for you to just 'let it rest'?
Smile

Ever see the movie "Big Fish"?

I guess what I'm saying is that no matter how much Jo Weber attempts to prove he was D.B Cooper, the fact remains that it will be impossible to prove it one way or the other.

There will always be a large question of doubt in a large portion of the population that will question whether or not the deathbed confession ever actually even took place, and Ms. Weber, please don't take that as an insult from me but simply as a fact of human behavior.

People will always ask questions like; "Ms. Weber, is there anyone else that heard the confession? Did Mr. Weber point you to any actual evidence? If Mr. Weber was D.B Cooper, what ever became of the money?"

We live in extremely skeptical times. Rather than fall prey to the skepticism of this, I would actually rather never know.

I dunno, I'd have a hard time "proving" what I had for lunch yesterday. Proving what somebody else, even my spouce, did 35 years ago; I don't think that would be possible.


(This post was edited by quade on Nov 23, 2006, 12:25 PM)


Guru312  (C 6814)

Nov 23, 2006, 8:03 PM
Post #48 of 1694 (5815 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I read this thread a few hours ago and decided to search through my memorabilia files for an advertisement I placed in a Philadelphia newspaper a day or so after the hijacking.

I created a web page with a short essay and a picture of the advert that I hope makes everyone chuckle...including Mrs. Weber.

I'd never be able to place something like this in today's paranoid times. The ad reads "Parachute lessons for Hijacking and other fun"

See it here: http://berniesayers.com/I_am_not_DB_Cooper.htm

I'm going to go watch the movie "The Pursuit of D. B. Cooper."


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 23, 2006, 10:36 PM
Post #49 of 1694 (5776 views)
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     Re: [Guru312] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Bernie....I like your STYLE! Cool






Guru312  (C 6814)

Nov 24, 2006, 8:23 AM
Post #52 of 1694 (5200 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I watched the movie "The Pursuit of DB Cooper" last night and there was scene which may help you if there was any truth in it. Plus, I remember much speculation from the time that DB was ex-military, specifically Special Forces.

In the movie, the Robert Duvall character is interviewing the flight attendant who DB locked in the bathroom. He asked about DB's clothing, accent and other characteristics. The attendant said, "Well, he was wearing a bracelet." Duvall grins and replies, "...a transvestite hijacker?"

The attendant described the bracelet as being made of coarse, black wire. Duvall pulled up his sleeve and says, "Did it look like this?" and showed her a Montagnard elephant hair bracelet.

If the movie writers got that idea for the elephant hair bracelet from the investigators --FBI or others-- you could possibly send a Freedom of Information request for available information. If the investigation records that you find mention that DB had the bracelet it pretty much confirms that he was Special Forces or a Marine stationed with them in 'Nam.

It's possible to buy the bracelets on eBay for $49.00 but not in 1971...nor in 1992 when the movie was made.

Did your husband mention the movie? Can you confirm that he was in 'Nam and that he was with the Montagnards?

As I see it, your quest is tied closely to confirming if the 'real' DB was wearing the bracelet and if your husband served in 'Nam.


Amazon  (D License)

Nov 24, 2006, 8:39 AM
Post #53 of 1694 (5196 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jo... Has anyone suggested that you go to one of the local dropzones there in Florida and possibly make a tandem jump... just a thought..SmileSmile


stratostar  (Student)

Nov 24, 2006, 11:01 AM
Post #54 of 1694 (5161 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

If at some point you care to tell us the story of your trip to WA in 79, I for one would like to hear about it.

And as posted above, how about doing a tandem?Smile


marks  (D 22296)

Nov 24, 2006, 4:53 PM
Post #55 of 1694 (5099 views)
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     Re: [Amazon] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Jo... Has anyone suggested that you go to one of the local dropzones there in Florida and possibly make a tandem jump... just a thought..SmileSmile

I agree, I also am very very interested in how this story pans out, please PLEASE keep us posted.Smile


colonel54656

Nov 24, 2006, 8:20 PM
Post #56 of 1694 (5052 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I GUESS YOU HAD TO BE THERE! I was jumping when DB did his thing. Being military it was assumed the jumper was military. It was years later Weber came out of the woods. The FBI was after him and had good reason to believe it was him I guess. At one time they were talking about a former SF captain who retired in Central America with to much money. With all the High Jackings and then DB the Feds were looking for some jumpers to put on retainer. I remember the Volplane was being sold at the time. One of the first squares. Like I said I guess you had to be around then to understand. I will attach photo of our guys then and they were all military.
Attachments: 0011BlueFalco1972.jpg (71.5 KB)






NickDG  (D 8904)

Nov 24, 2006, 11:23 PM
Post #59 of 1694 (5001 views)
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     Re: [colonel54656] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

>>I GUESS YOU HAD TO BE THERE! I was jumping when DB did his thing. Being military it was assumed the jumper was military.<<

That's too big an assumption. The sport side of parachuting (non-military) was clicking right along in 1971. Relative Work was exploding all over the country and the military had nothing on the civilian side as far as skills go.

However, I "lean" toward DB Cooper being former military, with a small number of jumps from years ago, or someone with no parachuting experience at all.

If it had been an experienced sport jumper, or even a current military club or ops jumper, he'd have been better prepared. I would have done it – not to sound like O.J. – with one of Hank's big Piglets and would have had an ash-bag for the money.

The bad WX over the jump area and the way he obtained the parachutes both point to someone who didn't put too much emphasis on the jump. That sounds like someone with no parachute experience at all. The next question becomes could a complete wuffo contemplate, and then carry out such a thing?

With just a Hollywood knowledge of parachuting, he could have researched the particulars of the air stair on the 727 easily enough, and the rest was just good old fashioned highway robbery.

The person up-board who said, "I'm interested in how this pans out," wins understatement of the thread. The parachuting community has been waiting for 35 years . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


Guru312  (C 6814)

Nov 24, 2006, 11:29 PM
Post #60 of 1694 (4998 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Can you confirm that he was in 'Nam and that he was with the Montagnards?

As I see it, your quest is tied closely to confirming if the 'real' DB was wearing the bracelet and if your husband served in 'Nam.

Jo Weber says, For the Record:
NO Way! My quest is not tied to a fictional movie nor to 'Nam' nor to such a bracelet. I do not know where you got that information.


I have never said he was in Viet Nam.
--------------------------

Jo---

What I am saying is that after the hijacked plane landed all of the passengers and crew were interviewed by the FBI and other law enforcement investigators. I'm also saying that *somewhere* there is a record of the interviews that *maybe* the writer of the book "Free Fall" upon which the movie "The Pursuit of DB Cooper" was based talked to investigators or read their reports.

I'm assuming that *maybe* those writers would share any information that they dug up in their research for the book/film with you. Hell, with everyone following this 35 year old mystery!!

I'm speculating--pure speculation!--that there may be some factual truth to the scene in the movie in which the Montagnard elephant hair bracelet is mentioned. If, in fact, the reports relate that 'DB' wore such a bracelet which was described by the hostage flight attendant then tracking down anyone privy to the report would be to your benefit in your quest.

Have you read "Free Fall"? Have you seen the movie? Have you petitioned the gov't under FOIA for anything they have regarding the hijacking?

If people can request documents under FOIA for UFO info and CIA/NSA operations information or other material surely you could enter a FOIA request for documentation regarding the hijacking. I certainly would!

If you haven't requested information under FOIA it would seem to me it would be a good and very important action.

Again, have you requested information under FOIA from any government agency?

Has anyone reading this forum thread requested DB Cooper documents under the FOIA?







Guru312  (C 6814)

Nov 25, 2006, 7:25 AM
Post #63 of 1694 (4950 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Regarding FOIA and witnesses:

...

The FOIA - they have very little and they even have errors in what they release. They can't even get the date correct. Go to the FOIA site. They have over 40 ft of files and this is all they can release - things that have no revelance at all.

...
-----------------------

I'm sorry, Jo, but if *you* have not filed multiple FOIA requests *yourself* on this issue you are not doing an investigation. IMHO.

I follow and study the UFO abduction phenomenon. Researchers for that topic spend years filing FOIA requests. Most often, the FOIA docs are redacted and meaningless or worthless.

Do *you* have docs like that? Do *you* have 'over 40 ft of files'?

It seems to me that you should be exhausting every possible opportunity available.

I was hoping that your response to my question about filing FOIA requests would be that you have done that and you could describe to those of us who are quite interested just what the gov't *did* send you.

It astounds me that you haven't filed any. If you have filed FOIA requests--and I am misunderstanding your response--please correct me.

Not speculation. Not innuendo. Not exaggerated talk. Written documents: affidavits, investigation reports or what ever.

I'll go one step further, I'll even create a totally new website on your behalf *FOR NO CHARGE* with the FOIA *documents* that you have available. Maybe you could get "InSearchOfDBCooper.com" or something similar.

Let the world see where you are on this. Go for it.

Send me a PM with a list of what you have received from the US gov't in response to your FOIA requests.


(This post was edited by Guru312 on Nov 25, 2006, 7:28 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 25, 2006, 10:11 AM
Post #64 of 1694 (4919 views)
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     Re: [Guru312] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

You are most definitely a class act there Bernie! Cool

And Jo, if it would make anything easier for you, I'll be in Fla. in a couple weeks on business,
perhaps we could get together and I could help you scan said info to help organize and get up on a web site.


el_chester  (D 58)

Nov 25, 2006, 12:30 PM
Post #65 of 1694 (4884 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

NPR interviews Jo.

http://www.npr.org/....php?storyId=1080901










airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 26, 2006, 5:53 AM
Post #70 of 1694 (4740 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Why did the FBI ask for Duane Weber's DNA in March of 2003?


In reply to:

Well I can probably answer that one Jo~

'Dan Cooper' allegedly was smoking like an old train on board the aircraft, back when you COULD do such things.Sly

There are no doubt many of his cigarette butts gathered up and in some evidence locker somewhere, they wanted Duane's DNA to compare against DNA likely on those butts left behind by the hijacker.

Again, no surprise you haven't heard anything from them...they may be hesitant to acknowledge that the untold millions of taxpayer money they spent in the fruitless search
proved 'wasted' when you made your initial call to them explaining what you'd found.

Much better to 'save face' and say he couldn't have survived the jump!Crazy


bigway

Nov 26, 2006, 6:08 AM
Post #71 of 1694 (4733 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

This is an excellent thread!

Makes you wonder though, while the FBI are reading this if they are actually reading other threads in the forums.


GrabGrass  (D 666999)

Nov 26, 2006, 6:13 AM
Post #72 of 1694 (4728 views)
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     Re: [bigway] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
This is an excellent thread!

Makes you wonder though, while the FBI are reading this if they are actually reading other threads in the forums.


Ever met a Lawyer or an Accountant that COULD READ ?! Crazy


Much less one on the Federal Teat??? Tongue


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 26, 2006, 6:16 AM
Post #73 of 1694 (4725 views)
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     Re: [GrabGrass] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
This is an excellent thread!

Makes you wonder though, while the FBI are reading this if they are actually reading other threads in the forums.


Ever met a Lawyer or an Accountant that COULD READ ?! Crazy


Much less one on the Federal Teat??? Tongue


ShockedShockedShocked


~ I N C O M I N G ! ! ! ~

















SlySlySly


Guru312  (C 6814)

Nov 26, 2006, 8:08 AM
Post #74 of 1694 (4697 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
This is an excellent thread!

Makes you wonder though, while the FBI are reading this if they are actually reading other threads in the forums.


Ever met a Lawyer or an Accountant that COULD READ ?! Crazy


Much less one on the Federal Teat??? Tongue


ShockedShockedShocked


~ I N C O M I N G ! ! ! ~

No. O U T G O I N G !!!...I'm done...

This thread has lost its interest for me.

It is beyond my understanding why the person who started it steadfastly refuses to file FOIA requests...and then bitches about the information that is not provided.

Good luck, Jo, I have better things to do with my life.

I think I'm going to rake leaves.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Nov 26, 2006, 10:41 AM
Post #75 of 1694 (4654 views)
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     Re: [Guru312] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Neutral third party viewpoint here. This will help explain the argument. This will help explain why we need to stay polite and continue to do benefit-of-doubt.

With a specific government department (i.e. American IRS or Canadian CCRA), I have heard of many horror stories as well as many success stories. Someone got audited, someone got a tax refund.

Another example: Cellphone companies. Don't forget there are many happy Cingular customers who have been pampered by very nice people working there, while there are many angry Cingular customers that have been abused by seemingly brainless customer service, and people actually don't sign up for Cingular because of the bad stories they hear.

And don't get me started regarding presidents, prime ministers, and other leaders (of many countries, Canada, America, wherever). We all totally agree that some of us love them, some of us hate them, and some are anywhere in between.

There is enough polar-opposite experiences with any ONE government department that I understand both sides of the argument. You are intelligent enough to understand that multiple-person entities (government, companies, etc) can often exhibit the behavior of one hand not knowing know what the other is doing, and the usual inefficiencies and inconveniences that sometimes occur... And that word-of-mouth is very powerful, especially when told by close friends.

Shame given Jo's apparent grief (let's not worry about if DB is real or not), you aren't using more polite statements such as "While I understand there has almost certainly been negative experiences with FOIA, the problem happens with just about any federal department. If you come across a financial situation where you are able to afford to try and make the 'gamble' to do so, you should try approaching FOIA sometime anyway to make a request. There are occasionally good stories -- it's worth a gamble in the odd chance you get some useful info, which is certianly possible -- Here's a success story with FOIA, someone got a..." .... Instead you chose to say something inflammatory such as "It is beyond my understanding why the person who started it steadfastly refuses to file FOIA requests" Yes, there is emotional reaction, but remember Jo is the one who had the dying husband, not you -- even if you don't think he's real, you need to give understanding of that. Hear, hear!

I continue to watch this story. It is one of the most interesting threads on dropzone.com lately.


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Nov 26, 2006, 10:52 AM)


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006, 11:37 AM
Post #76 of 1694 (5471 views)
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     Re: [mdrejhon] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

The "High cost" of the FOIA search costs are First 2 hrs: no chargeRemainder: $18/hr: manual, $11-27/hr: computer. Then also for the copies of the files: First 100 pages: no charge Remainder: 10 cents/page. If you can get someone in the news meida to sponsor the request then the search fee is waived and you only have to pay for the xerox costs.

Is there even an estiamte from the FBI on how much a full search and reproduction of their records will cost? If not I agree that not all the search work has been done with the FBI and law agencies.


MakeItHappen

Nov 26, 2006, 12:09 PM
Post #77 of 1694 (5461 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
After getting out of prison he is working menial jobs, nor being able to get on his feet and support his family - in 1970 he finds he has a kidney disease that is going to kill him (in those days you did not live long on the machines).

This man is defeated, but he has the information and plans with two yrs in prison to plan this. He had been involved since the 60's in covert and mob activities...from Las Vegas to Chicago to New Orlean to Miami to Texas and Tenn. In 1971 he is desperate - broke and his wife has left him. He has a disease that at that time was a death sentence.

I don't follow the part where he has a short life expectancy in 1971, yet lives to 1995?
Did he really have kidney disease?
Did dialysis work better than you say?
Did he get a transplant?

I have copies of old Parachutist magazines and can see if his name or aliases are listed in the Wings-n-Things section. It also lists the state the jumper was from at the time. I do know that USPA did go through their records at the time to look for this person. They did not find anything.

Personally, I think DB Cooper went in on that jump and no one has been able to find his remains.
Several years ago there was a BASE jumper that made a successful jump, but his canopy landed in a swiftly flowing river. He was swept away. S&R could not find his body - and they knew where to look. Something similar probably happened to DB Cooper.

.


sartre

Nov 26, 2006, 12:46 PM
Post #78 of 1694 (5443 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Why in the Photo, do some of these men have their faces covered up?

Mrs Weber, I have been wondering about this comment for a few days. In looking at the photo, it doesn't appear to me that any of the men have their faces covered up. I am intigued by this thread as well, but just confused about a couple of your posts. Am I missing something?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 26, 2006, 12:53 PM
Post #79 of 1694 (5437 views)
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     Re: [sartre] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

They are wearing helmets. They are not covering up their faces.


sartre

Nov 26, 2006, 1:57 PM
Post #80 of 1694 (5408 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Thus my question to Mrs. Weber.Smile


Guru312  (C 6814)

Nov 26, 2006, 3:35 PM
Post #81 of 1694 (5394 views)
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     Re: [mdrejhon] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Neutral third party viewpoint here. This will help explain the argument. This will help explain why we need to stay polite and continue to do benefit-of-doubt.

...

Yes, there is emotional reaction, but remember Jo is the one who had the dying husband, not you -- even if you don't think he's real, you need to give understanding of that. Hear, hear!

I continue to watch this story. It is one of the most interesting threads on dropzone.com lately.

Wow! Damned if I do and damned if I don't. It was my intent to stay out of this increasingly emotional thread but this post of yours and, more so, having a moderator lock a thread I started to address the facts of this issue has caused me to defend myself.

I started another thread having to do with this issue because, IMHO, Mrs. Weber is failing to look at the facts regarding DB Cooper.

You will note that in the fourth paragraph of the post which starts this thread she wrote: I don't want to debate theories about how the crime was done and who else may have done it.

For those of you new to the thread and DB Cooper particularly, I was under scrutiny 35 years ago because of an advertisement I placed in a Philadelphia newspaper in which I advertised "Parachute lessons for hijacking and other fun." Click on the link in my sig below to see the ad.

I purposely created another subject because I did not want to hijack the hijacking thread. The moderator of the locked thread told me a new thread wasn't needed and to post here.

This response addresses other facts regarding DB Cooper.

In the other thread I have a link to an essay I wrote dealing with facts Mrs. Weber doesn't want to entertain. And, as you can see from her posts up-thread of this she wrote to me: I am really sorry you started that thread.

What she doesn't want the DZ.com community to be aware of is that two or three FBI agents have gone public about this whole issue. One agent co-wrote a book about the whole episode and another agent shot and killed a man who hijacked a plane for $500,000 not long after the DB Cooper hijack.

That $500,000 hijacker was ex-Special Forces and a seasoned skydiver. Speculation at the time was that he did the DB Cooper hijack. My money is on him; Mrs. Weber's money seems to be on her ex-husband.

The FBI agent O'Hara who did the shooting is quoted in the book written by the FBI agent as saying: "When I shot Richard McCoy, I shot D.B. Cooper at the same time."

You can read more about this in the essay I wrote by clicking here:
http://berniesayers.com/...ch_for_DB_Cooper.htm

As I write, above, I purposely did not want to attack or defame Mrs. Weber in her own thread but she and I have a differing opinion regarding finding facts and dealing with them. I have defended her against very personal attacks but disagree with her current attitude in regard to the publicly available issues.

I did not want to hijack the hijacking thread by writing a post like this but I'm following the moderator's guidance.

You decide. Read the other information available. See my essay above for links.


(This post was edited by Guru312 on Nov 26, 2006, 3:46 PM)


NickDG  (D 8904)

Nov 26, 2006, 5:38 PM
Post #82 of 1694 (5340 views)
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     Re: [mdrejhon] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Here's a 1999 article concerning the 727 co-pilot . . .

Also - Has it ever been revealed exactly what kind of rigs they gave him? I remember reading (somewhere years ago) they came from a local parachute loft. I always assumed they were four pilot's rigs and not sport gut gear.

NickD Smile
BASE 194

>>Ken Eisinger / Star Tribune

Capt. William Rataczak will tell you that he has two families -- his relatives and his professional colleagues -- and he doesn't like people messing with either.

In 1971, airline hijacker D.B. Cooper messed with both. Rataczak, who retired Monday after a 34-year career with Northwest Airlines, was the co-pilot during the legendary D.B. Cooper skyjacking. Cooper captivated the nation when he ransomed a jetliner for $200,000 and then parachuted out the back of the plane over southwestern Washington state.

He was never seen again, but $5,800 of the ransom money was discovered along the Columbia River in 1980. His feat -- or his folly -- has inspired books, a movie, annual festivals and a play by local laywright John Orlock.

Rataczak, who lives in South Haven, Minn., took a break from the cheers and applause of his friends and family at his retirement reception Monday at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport to reflect on his experience.

He had been flying commercially only six years when a man calling himself Dan Cooper -- the "D.B." came from a reporter's mistake and remains today -- boarded Rataczak's Boeing 727 in Portland, Ore., with 36 other passengers.

Cooper gave a flight attendant a note, which she ignored, thinking he was trying to come on to her. Soon after takeoff she read it and relayed the message to Capt. William Scott and Rataczak that the plane was being hijacked by a man with a bomb.

"He wanted $200,000 and four parachutes," Rataczak said. "And no funny stuff."

Upon his arrival Monday at the airport from Oslo, Norway, retiring Capt. William Rataczak shared a laugh with fellow Capt. Pete Johnson.

The plane circled above the Seattle airport while police below raced to get the ransom money and find the parachutes. When the plane landed, Cooper freed the passengers and two flight attendants in return for the ransom.

Rataczak recalled that he, the other pilot, a flight engineer and the remaining two attendants could have left the plane as well because they were out of Cooper's sight. But Rataczak said he couldn't get the flight attendants' attention.

Cooper then ordered Rataczak and Scott to fly to Mexico, agreeing to a refueling stop in Reno.

Although Cooper's identity remains a mystery, Rataczak said he was able to discern some of the criminal's qualities. Cooper's comments indicated he was familiar with the Seattle area, and had an dvanced knowledge of aviation, Rataczak said.

Just after takeoff, Cooper ordered the remaining attendant to go to the cockpit and close the curtain behind her. When she looked back, he was tying the money to his waist. In the cockpit, the pilots saw the stair signal light flash and felt a sudden dip and then ascension in the plane's flight.

The dip was caused when Cooper jumped from the rear stairs at 10,000 feet, going 196 miles per hour, about 20 miles north of Portland. He wore only a business suit with loafers, and he plummeted into stormy weather with a windchill of 70 below.

An ensuing FBI manhunt found no trace of Cooper. His myth gained momentum. His legend is one part mystery, and one part folk tale; a combination of Bigfoot and Robin Hood. Hundreds of people who annually attend festivals in Ariel, Wash., think Cooper escaped with his money and is alive and well today. When an 8-year-old boy found about $5,800 of the marked ransom money on a riverbank in 1980, the stories began again.

Rataczak doesn't believe the hype.

"My mind tells me he's dead," he said. "And my heart tells me I hope he is because he caused a great number of people a great deal of grief.

"Many people didn't realize that there were 36 other passengers and a crew of six on that aircraft whose lives were in jeopardy. . . . It's an open book today, if he's ever caught, he will go to prison."<<


Frenchy68  (A License)

Nov 26, 2006, 6:08 PM
Post #83 of 1694 (5322 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
Also - Has it ever been revealed exactly what kind of rigs they gave him? I remember reading (somewhere years ago) they came from a local parachute loft. I always assumed they were four pilot's rigs and not sport gut gear.

Article found on the web
"The parachute types specified by D.B. Cooper, according to author Gunther, were acquired from a sport parachute center in Issaquah, Washington-two standard emergency back-type and two chest-type auxiliary parachutes (the latter generally termed reserve chutes, for back-up emergency use if the main chute should malfunction when a sport parachutist was making a jump). The parachute center in Issaquah provided the two chest packs and Earl Cossey, a parachuting instructor at the Issaquah drop zone as well as an FAA Master Parachute Rigger, contacted at his nearby home, brought two back-type rigs from his parachute workshop there and delivered them to the parachute school. (The types and number of parachutes asked for by D.B. Cooper led to early speculation that the skyjacker might have freefall parachuting experience and that he might have an accomplice.)"

Also, were there any confirmation that anyone from the crew checked whether Cooper was indeed gone prior to landing in Reno? Could he have jumped further South than everyone thinks?


airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 26, 2006, 8:35 PM
Post #84 of 1694 (5285 views)
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     Re: [Frenchy68] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

And...one of the 'reserves' from the DZ was of the old "Training Aid" types...Cossey realized it when he put his 'personal' main containers with them, told the FBI...but it was to late to retrieve another belly wart.

From what I understand, DB opened the 'non' "Training Aid"
canopy and cut some 550 with which to secure the satchel of greenbacks.










airtwardo  (D License)

Nov 27, 2006, 7:18 AM
Post #89 of 1694 (5176 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I was also looking for the jumpers views of how he managed to survive this jump and their perspectives.

In reply to:

Jo~

There is an annual skydiving convention held in the Midwest for well over 20 years now. One of the main attractions to jumpers worldwide is the opportunity to get to do a "D.B. Cooper" jump, in which skydivers exit that rear air stair of a Boeing 727. It's done often and by many, usually exiting almost 'en-mass'. I've jumped the jet myself and am obviously living proof that the parachute part of the 1971 skyjacking event is survivable and possible.




b1jercat  (B 26608)

Nov 27, 2006, 10:37 PM
Post #91 of 1694 (5071 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Call Ralph 503-630-5867. Wink

blues

jerry


(This post was edited by b1jercat on Nov 27, 2006, 10:38 PM)


1010  (B 28561)

Nov 27, 2006, 10:45 PM
Post #92 of 1694 (5067 views)
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     Re: [b1jercat] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Call Ralph 503-630-5867. Wink

blues

jerry


I was just thinking the same thing ...

Jo, Ralph Hatley has been involved with skydiving for a long time, I gotta believe he's got an opinion about this subject, like everything else Wink. He owns a big skydiving gear store 30 miles SE of Portland.






wuffo2

Nov 30, 2006, 1:41 AM
Post #95 of 1694 (4894 views)
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     Re: [Guru312] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
This is an excellent thread!

Makes you wonder though, while the FBI are reading this if they are actually reading other threads in the forums.


Ever met a Lawyer or an Accountant that COULD READ ?! Crazy


Much less one on the Federal Teat??? Tongue


ShockedShockedShocked


~ I N C O M I N G ! ! ! ~

No. O U T G O I N G !!!...I'm done...

This thread has lost its interest for me.

It is beyond my understanding why the person who started it steadfastly refuses to file FOIA requests...and then bitches about the information that is not provided.

Good luck, Jo, I have better things to do with my life.

I think I'm going to rake leaves. Ever try to get a FOIA nowadays? Hope you have plenty of connections and lots of bucks and time. Then when you get it it's half blacked out. Your Govt. at workWink


Premier TomAiello  (D 22400)
Moderator
Nov 30, 2006, 8:43 AM
Post #96 of 1694 (4839 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I've moved this thread from Speakers' Corner to History and Trivia.

Hopefully, folks who want to contribute something useful to help Jo can do so here, and we'll avoid the arguments that started in the Bonfire.

Please remember that Jo is entitled to post her opinions and ask questions, just as every member of these forums is. Personal attacks will not be tolerated here (or elsewhere in these forums).

If you want to share something with Jo, please do so. If you think she's on a wild goose chase, I advise you to just ignore this thread and spend your time elsewhere.

Thanks!




Douva  (D 22772)

Dec 1, 2006, 12:46 AM
Post #98 of 1694 (4742 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Some people might find it interesting to view the photo Jo posted next to this age progressed version of the FBI sketch.

I'm sure this is information Jo already has, but for those of you who were so interested in what the FBI might release through a Freedom of Information Act filing, some of that information is posted here.

Jo, I'm sorry if somebody has already asked this and I missed it, but do you have an idea what part of the country Duane was living in during the late '60s/early '70s? That would probably help us narrow down the drop zones where he might have jumped and therefore the list of people to whom you should speak.


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Dec 1, 2006, 7:39 AM
Post #99 of 1694 (4715 views)
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     Re: [Douva] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Smile


airtwardo  (D License)

Dec 1, 2006, 8:00 AM
Post #100 of 1694 (4710 views)
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     Re: [DBCOOPER] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Shocked
Attachments: 1a.jpg (57.0 KB)




airtwardo  (D License)

Dec 1, 2006, 8:10 PM
Post #102 of 1694 (5109 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jo, the 10k if for posting avaitar pics only, you can go as high as 100 I believe for posting in fourms.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Dec 1, 2006, 10:21 PM
Post #103 of 1694 (5095 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Wow! Based on those FBI composite sketches, I also think -I- may have found a photo of D.B. Cooper from around that time period.

Holy Cow! I'm pretty sure this guy always carried a briefcase of some sort and he, himself, was no dummy.


(This post was edited by quade on Dec 1, 2006, 10:28 PM)
Attachments: PossibleDBCooper.jpg (71.4 KB)


stratostar  (Student)

Dec 1, 2006, 10:46 PM
Post #104 of 1694 (5085 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Just wondering, do you have a better photo with less shadow and more of a stright on face shot at the same age range as the one you put in the avaitar?

If so please post it, thanks.






Zing  (D 6343)

Dec 2, 2006, 12:18 AM
Post #107 of 1694 (5077 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Somebody here, myself included, could help you with those photo files. If you can put them on a CD and send them, or email the files to me, I should be able to open them, change them into files your new computer will recognize and email them back to you. Send a private message if you'd like my email address.






labrys  (D 29848)

Dec 4, 2006, 1:41 PM
Post #110 of 1694 (4922 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I think it's a government cover-up.
Attachments: possibledb.JPG (105 KB)


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Dec 4, 2006, 3:19 PM
Post #111 of 1694 (4900 views)
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     Re: [labrys] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

You may be on to something.


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Dec 4, 2006, 3:40 PM
Post #112 of 1694 (4892 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
You may be on to something.

If this is true then it means Bush Senior actually has SIX jumps!

Maybe USPA should give him an "E" license if he makes a small donation, say maybe $200,000.


labrys  (D 29848)

Dec 4, 2006, 3:51 PM
Post #113 of 1694 (4888 views)
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     Re: [SkydiveJack] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Or even $194,200. Some of it went for a bike and a VCR, didn't it?

Give the guy some credit, though. He had to find some way to put Jr through Yale.




stratostar  (Student)

Dec 10, 2006, 6:17 AM
Post #115 of 1694 (4728 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

No you load all the attachments the same, in one post, if you can upload one, you can upload all in the same post. You also have 100kb to work with for size.




Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Dec 10, 2006, 11:27 PM
Post #117 of 1694 (4658 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Post them and someone will do it for you.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

Dec 11, 2006, 11:24 AM
Post #118 of 1694 (4601 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Thank You. I still need for all 4 pics to be viewed at once. I don't know anything to do but take them somewhere and have someone put all 4 pics into one pic. Because I don't deal locally (small community), I will have to take them to a city about 40 miles away.
Why not email the 4 photos to one of us, and we can merge them into one picture, including resizing to match size to each other, if necessary?

Another easy option is to buy one of the cheap clearance brand-name digital cameras (Kodak 3 megapixel, etc -- can sometimes be found for just $50 or $75), lay the photos on a table in a brightly lit room, take a digital snapshot of all of them at once -- and upload that photo. Make sure the camera is in close-range focus mode (usually the flower "icon" on most cameras). Much easier than using a scanner, and it provides photographic proof of the existence of original prints. This is a quick way of making digital backups of the originals, even if it is not high quality - but it is much easier and faster than using a scanner... Computer-independent, and doesn't break down as easily. (Essentially, you're simply taking photographs of photo prints.) ... Remember using a modern recent digital camera is easier than using the Internet nowadays; so if you are able to use the Internet, you can handle a digital camera. And if the computer breaks down, just simply bring the memory card to a photo lab or kiosk instead. And get one of those 1 gigabyte cards which are cheap now at $25, and avoid deleting them from the cards, so you still have the photos even if the computer breaks down. (You can burn to a CD instead, if you want to save money -- or bring the memory card to a photo lab to make CD backups if you don't know how to burn to a CD).
Quote:
Post them and someone will do it for you.
If you do, I volunteer to merge all the photos into one photo within 24 hours of your post using my Corel/Adobe software... (In fact, someone else helpful will probably beat me to it).


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on Dec 11, 2006, 11:33 AM)




Zing  (D 6343)

Dec 13, 2006, 6:10 PM
Post #120 of 1694 (4472 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

The Hunt For D B Cooper is on the Discovery Times Channel right now. The sow is using some of the photos Skyjack71 has put on here.


Erroll

Dec 13, 2006, 9:38 PM
Post #121 of 1694 (4459 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The sow is using some of the photos Skyjack71 has put on here.

You don't like the (female) presenter very much?Tongue




Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Dec 14, 2006, 5:02 AM
Post #123 of 1694 (4425 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I have a feeling it's a typo for show Sly

Wendy W.




pocbase  (B 2487)

Dec 20, 2006, 1:12 AM
Post #125 of 1694 (4281 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I don't understand this.

Are you saying that the B&W picture was taken before the color picture?


mark  (D 6108)

Dec 20, 2006, 1:27 PM
Post #126 of 1694 (5305 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Please NOTE his stance - this is very important.

Okay, I'll bite. Why is it important?

Mark








mark  (D 6108)

Dec 21, 2006, 6:53 AM
Post #130 of 1694 (5226 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Duane was in the NAVY and received a BAD CONDUCT Discharge and a few months later he was in the ARMY.

A Bad Conduct Discharge must be adjudged by special or general court-martial. I am astonished that someone with a BCD could enlist again at all, let alone so soon after conviction. What did he do to earn a BCD?

Mark








NickDG  (D 8904)

Dec 30, 2006, 5:59 AM
Post #134 of 1694 (4895 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi Joe,

It's obvious the passion you have for this but I think this board may be the wrong place for it. While I see the parachute connection makes this an obvious place most here are too young to get excited about it. It's like asking for fresh information on John Dillinger or Al Capone on a hip-hop gangsta site . . .

Joe, you should put this in front of the world and that means a stand alone website. You'd still only be fishing, but you'd be dropping your hook into a much larger pond. Website names like DBCooper.com, "net" and "info" all seem to be in the hands of cyber squatters but DBCooper.us is an available URL – and would probably get hundreds, and eventually thousands, of times more eyeballs than anything you posted here.

Another thing, Joe, and I'm apologizing in advance for being blunt, but if you want people to take you seriously you should dial down what comes across in your writings as a bit of hysteria and your being too convinced Duane was/is Cooper.

People will be more apt to respond if they think you have more of an open mind. Again, you may not really be that way, but on the internet a book "is" judged by its cover and you need someone to filter your passion for public consumption.

I would think, compared to the rest of the Cooper websites that already exist, yours would be of more interest than most if it was presented correctly. And I'm sure there is some tech savvy person out there who'd love to sink their teeth into this – but you limiting yourself by trying to find that person on DZ.com.

Once the natural lifespan of DB Cooper passes, which is right about now, the whole thing will morph from fact into legend. So, for your sake, the time to act is now. And either Duane was Cooper or he wasn't. And the way to go about it is, if you find out he was, you win, and if you find out he wasn't, you win too. There's no third way to look at it.

Good luck, Joe . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194




NelKel  (D 25024)

Jan 2, 2007, 2:16 AM
Post #136 of 1694 (4765 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jo, you have my interest, I have just read all 6 pages and looked at all of the photos. I will continue to follow your thread. I wish you good luck on your search. There are no really old times here that I am familiar with to ask, but I will keep your plea for help in mind if I ever come across an old timer.

Your husband passed in 1995? His skyjacking was in 1971? That was a long time ago; I have a few questions for you?

You were married in 1978? You said 17 years of marriage. I deduce.

The photo you referred to with his leg seeming to be bent backwards... Looks to me like he has on a prostitic, or the photo was taken on a weird angle and the camera didn't capture everything. I say that because the leg looks skinny compared to the other, and the shoe is wrong. I realize you were married at an older age and was a second marriage, so that the reason for my next question, and I don't want to offend you with this but..

Have you ever seen him undressed, did he have a prostitic leg?

I have studied the photos on the panoramic on page 6 and can not see any facial features that would make it hard for a sketch artist to reproduce. Except for the older on in black and white.. His face seems distorted slightly on his left side, or kind of like your reflection through one of those fun house mirrors. Is that it?

You wrote that if you knew for sure you would have his remains something or other. Did you have him creamated?


(This post was edited by NelKel on Jan 2, 2007, 2:21 AM)








NickDG  (D 8904)

Jan 9, 2007, 6:14 AM
Post #140 of 1694 (4457 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

>>I have never been able to find out where the other attendant is living. Her name was Florence Shaffner<<

Here's a lead, Joe;

http://www.bonesville.net/...2_George_Wheeler.htm

I found this in 2-seconds by searching with Google for "Florence Shaffner flight attendant"

Look toward the bottom of the article . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194












nitrochute  (D License)

Jan 27, 2007, 10:21 PM
Post #146 of 1694 (3948 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

ummm that green "chevy" is actually a plymouth duster.


Zing  (D 6343)

Jan 27, 2007, 10:22 PM
Post #147 of 1694 (3945 views)
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     Re: [nitrochute] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Except it says "DODGE" on the trunk deck.


labrys  (D 29848)

Jan 27, 2007, 10:46 PM
Post #148 of 1694 (3942 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I think it's a Dodge Demon


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jan 28, 2007, 12:14 AM
Post #149 of 1694 (3935 views)
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     Re: [labrys] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

she said the car was not significant... but damned if I can figure out what the clues are...


hmmm was the briefcase full of cash? Tongue


(This post was edited by BillyVance on Jan 28, 2007, 12:15 AM)


nitrochute  (D License)

Jan 28, 2007, 8:35 AM
Post #150 of 1694 (3903 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 it may be a demon ,but the plymouth duster and the dodge demon are the same car ,manufactured by the same company,just badged different.geez.


nitrochute  (D License)

Jan 28, 2007, 8:44 AM
Post #151 of 1694 (5216 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

my computer screen doesnt have that great a resolution,so i cant read it. i am going by the shape of the body. the only difference between a demon and a duster is the slots on the taillites.one is vertcal the other car horizontal .BUT they are both chrysler products and NOT chevy/gm.but who cares?




Zing  (D 6343)

Jan 28, 2007, 6:11 PM
Post #153 of 1694 (5145 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

You keep digging Jo, and those of us who can will keep trying to lend you a hand where we can.


itllclear  (D 6366)

Jan 28, 2007, 8:11 PM
Post #154 of 1694 (5132 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I can't see from the downloaded photo, but what state are the plates on the car from?




bozo  (D 10154)

Jan 29, 2007, 8:30 AM
Post #156 of 1694 (5076 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The car tag is covered by the picture and frame. since this photo was made in the Atlanta, Ga. area I would assume - Georgia. Some people carried Alabama tags to get around the insurance. Does anyone have any idea what yr the car would be. Since he was living and working in S.C. part of that time it might be a S.C. tag.

Thank You my Friends.

The demon is a 1971 as is the car parked to the left which is a Swinger.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jan 29, 2007, 9:12 AM
Post #157 of 1694 (5069 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In the photo, compare the car on the left to this car;
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~cirillo/dartpics.htm

Car on the right with;
http://www.foundationpc.com/brochure/71dmnad2.jpg


(This post was edited by quade on Jan 29, 2007, 9:12 AM)


bozo  (D 10154)

Jan 29, 2007, 9:35 AM
Post #158 of 1694 (5064 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In the photo, compare the car on the left to this car;
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~cirillo/dartpics.htm

Car on the right with;
http://www.foundationpc.com/brochure/71dmnad2.jpg

I didnt have to even look at the pictures. I used to race Mopars. I knew the years. The best car I ever owned was a 1969 Roadrunner 440 Magnum.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jan 29, 2007, 10:10 AM
Post #159 of 1694 (5052 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I knew that you knew what you were talking about.

What I wanted to do was provide an independent source for her to confirm the information.

For instance, if somebody had said, "The car on the right is a 1970 Dodge Challenger" she may have simply taken them at their word and lead her on a wild goose chase. Providing links to confirm information makes the entire endeavor a bit easier overall.

I think a huge portion of Jo's problems are that people have sent her a number of items she simply can't deal with; this photo with "clues" being one of them. There are no "clues" in to the photo. The glasses are meaningless. Thousands upon thousands of people wore glasses with frames like that in that time period. To attempt to connect the frames in that photo with the frames in the police artist sketch is futile and would never lead anywhere.


(This post was edited by quade on Jan 29, 2007, 10:22 AM)




JohnRich  (D License)

Jan 29, 2007, 3:19 PM
Post #161 of 1694 (5011 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
How could a person or couple afford 2 new cars with NO CREDIT and no income?

That photo appears to be a flea market, where people with little money go to sell unused household items to help make ends meet. Wouldn't that contradict the image that he was living lavishly off of a stash of stolen cash?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time - just asking a question that others are going to ask you about that photo.

I've been following this thread with great interest.


bozo  (D 10154)

Jan 29, 2007, 3:56 PM
Post #162 of 1694 (5003 views)
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     Re: [JohnRich] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
How could a person or couple afford 2 new cars with NO CREDIT and no income?

----------------------------------------------------------
She also told us the guy was a crook. Those two cars sitting there, if they did belong to Duane would only amount to a total of about $5000 bucks, for the pair.
He could have stolen that cash somewhere.








mattmais

Feb 3, 2007, 6:22 AM
Post #166 of 1694 (4778 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I read the on another board. Don't people that search for antiques go to flea markets?

"I think that many profilers who have analyzed Cooper have suggested that he might be someone who was probably interested in antiques

Popeye"




skypuppy  (D 347)

Feb 4, 2007, 9:26 AM
Post #168 of 1694 (4696 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Almost looks like Bill Cole to me. LOL.

(I'm pretty sure it isn't. Bill isn't dead, for one thing, and wouldn't be old enough. But maybe Chuteless will comment.)


chuteless  (D 41)

Feb 5, 2007, 10:48 AM
Post #169 of 1694 (4633 views)
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     Re: [skypuppy] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

No its not me....I think.

Shortly after D.B. got his cash, a guy wrote an article about me, titled " How I would Hijack An Aircraft for $200,000. and Get Away With It". No one would publish the article. He took photos of me dressed and looking (quite) like the picture that was first published ( an artist sketch) with the thin tie, dark glasses etc,....... and also pix of me carrying my rig at Pearson Intnl Airport, holding a ticket for a flight in my hand,..... also one of me with rig buying flight insurance.

I don't think they were ever used.


Bill Cole LOL as I fade into the sunset..LOL lol lol


(This post was edited by chuteless on Feb 5, 2007, 11:08 AM)




chuteless  (D 41)

Feb 6, 2007, 8:02 AM
Post #171 of 1694 (4527 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

If you are asking about whether or not I did the hijacking...no comment

If you are asking if the journalist wrote the story and took the photos, that part is very true.

Unfortunately, I cannot locate the journalist who wrote " How I Would Hijack a Plane for $200,000. and Get Away With It".

I was asked to try to find him about two years ago, and just do not know where he is now. I would like to have had a copy of his article, but never thought it would be of interest in 2007.



I don't know if I am considered an "Old Timer", but I sure feel old at times.


(This post was edited by chuteless on Feb 6, 2007, 8:03 AM)


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Feb 6, 2007, 10:01 AM
Post #172 of 1694 (4509 views)
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     Re: [chuteless] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If you are asking about whether or not I did the hijacking...no comment

If you are asking if the journalist wrote the story and took the photos, that part is very true.

Unfortunately, I cannot locate the journalist who wrote " How I Would Hijack a Plane for $200,000. and Get Away With It".

I was asked to try to find him about two years ago, and just do not know where he is now. I would like to have had a copy of his article, but never thought it would be of interest in 2007.

I don't know if I am considered an "Old Timer", but I sure feel old at times.

If you know the name of the journalist, it may be possible to find him with a little research...








Zing  (D 6343)

Feb 10, 2007, 10:50 PM
Post #176 of 1694 (4761 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

The Canon City photo looks more like a staff photo than an inmate mug shot. Any chance Duane had some kind of professional association with the prison other than as a guest of the government?


mattmais

Feb 11, 2007, 5:34 AM
Post #177 of 1694 (4744 views)
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     Re: Ferret Man [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

this is from a webside

http://www.supermegatopia.com/profiles/profiles.php?thisLink=ferretman.txt

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ferret Man Real Name: Alexander Vayne
Occupation: Vigilante
Base of Operations: Unknown
Marital Status: Married

The first vigilante to come to Distopia, Ferret Man single-handedly reduced the crime rate forty percent in three bloody years. In gratitude the city chose not to bring him up on several hundred charges of murder and instead erected a statue in his honor in what is now Memorial Park. Early in his career he took on two sidekicks: Sable Lass, who disappeared thirty some years ago, and Mongoose Lad, who still fights crime in the city to this day, along with Ferret Man's grandson and inheritor of the legacy: Weasel Boy. Ferret Man himself has been unseen for the past three years.


pocbase  (B 2487)

Feb 11, 2007, 9:01 AM
Post #178 of 1694 (4729 views)
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     Re: [mattmais] Ferret Man [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hey man, that's a bit nasty; Don't read if you don't like.






itllclear  (D 6366)

Feb 14, 2007, 6:45 AM
Post #181 of 1694 (4586 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Para Gear near Chicago sells hardware.

Try their web site: http://paragear.com and see if any of the pictures of hardware look familiar.




Zing  (D 6343)

Feb 14, 2007, 6:33 PM
Post #183 of 1694 (4517 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

There is a thing called a Koch fitting that was used on military style parachute risers. It attached the riser to the harness, was a machined metal fitting with ridges on the slide that activated the riser release.
The only thing missing is the chain, but I don't see why a Koch fitting couldn't be attached to a chain.
I don't have a picture of one, or access to one of those fittings anymore, but maybe someone here does.


itllclear  (D 6366)

Feb 14, 2007, 7:33 PM
Post #184 of 1694 (4499 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

did you go through ALL the pages of hardware?

Look on the left side of the screen, click on hardware. There are 14 pages!

Here's the link to page 1 http://www.paragear.com/...group=34&level=1


JohnRich  (D License)

Feb 15, 2007, 10:32 AM
Post #185 of 1694 (4441 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I went to that site, but I didn't find anything.

UnimpressedThey were shiny - like new condition. So upon going to some of the sites I would say that they were high grade metal. One I believe was triangle shaped - I think, but my memory is dull on this. The other end was retangular. They were connected by what I call a chain - he may have connected these two items himself as reminders. He may have cut them off of the chute.One of these items had a slide that had ridges, but I don't remember which one - I do remember playing with the slide thing.

How about one of these?

1) Rocket Jet release
2) Koch fitting
3) Quick release box
Attachments: Fitting_RocketJet.jpg (34.2 KB)
  Fitting_Koch.jpg (35.9 KB)
  Fitting_QuickReleaseBox.jpg (50.4 KB)




IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Feb 16, 2007, 6:14 PM
Post #187 of 1694 (4328 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Here's apicture of a Rapide Link. The fat part slides up to the threaded part and then screws tight.

http://djassociates.thomasnet.com/...steel?&forward=1




Zing  (D 6343)

Feb 16, 2007, 10:13 PM
Post #189 of 1694 (4295 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Does anybody have the list of the types of rigs supplied to DB Cooper?

Name the rigs and/or types of gear, and pictures of the rigs are easy to locate.


Orange1  (B 2638)

Feb 17, 2007, 3:13 AM
Post #190 of 1694 (4286 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Does anybody have the list of the types of rigs supplied to DB Cooper?

Name the rigs and/or types of gear, and pictures of the rigs are easy to locate.

Most stories written for the general public wouldn't have that detail I guess. But if anyone can locate anyone who was at the parachute center specified below they might recall what was there?

Quote:
The parachute types specified by D.B. Cooper, according to author Gunther, were acquired from a sport parachute center in Issaquah, Washington-two standard emergency back-type and two chest-type auxiliary parachutes (the latter generally termed reserve chutes, for back-up emergency use if the main chute should malfunction when a sport parachutist was making a jump). The parachute center in Issaquah provided the two chest packs and Earl Cossey, a parachuting instructor at the Issaquah drop zone as well as an FAA Master Parachute Rigger, contacted at his nearby home, brought two back-type rigs from his parachute workshop there and delivered them to the parachute school. (The types and number of parachutes asked for by D.B. Cooper led to early speculation that the skyjacker might have freefall parachuting experience and that he might have an accomplice.)

from http://www.aero.com/...utes/9602/pc0296.htm


NickDG  (D 8904)

Feb 17, 2007, 7:30 AM
Post #191 of 1694 (4268 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Earl J. Cossey is still listed in the FAA database as a Private Pilot and Master Rigger (his seal symbol is HF9) and his last medical was in 1976. If he's still alive, or not, is another thing as the FAA is notoriously bad at keeping their records up to date. There's a rule saying they must be notified within 30-days of a certificate holder's death, but they have no power to enforce that on anyone, least of all the airman in question, as they're dead . . .

Jo, if you want his last known address PM me . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Feb 17, 2007, 6:20 PM
Post #192 of 1694 (4232 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Earl Cossey is alive and well; now retired in the Seattle area.

He is an old friend and I will not supply any other info without his permission.

If he is in the phonebook for the Seattle area (he's in the burbs) then go for it.

Jerry


lekstrom10k  (D 3001)

Feb 19, 2007, 1:09 PM
Post #193 of 1694 (4146 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 It was said that one was a Para-Commander, in a B-4 style container. DBC didnt use that one He took a 28 ft Un modified round in an emergency container . He was said to repack it on the floor tied to seats for tension. They dont know where he got out and inched the speed up to where they were amazed the Air-Stair didnt crumble. They calculated the ground winds at night were 40 mph. To jump somewhere over the world and land by gravity.backing up at 39 oscilatting doesnt seem to good an idea. The original one was kind of neat then went to hell. I jumped into a party after that and we were greeted by the police as other hi-jackers. before we landed.


NickDG  (D 8904)

Feb 19, 2007, 2:01 PM
Post #194 of 1694 (4140 views)
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     Re: [lekstrom10k] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I'd read they were both pilot's rigs, but your version brings up some interesting clues. I'm thinking your average paratrooper of the time wouldn't know how to pack so that could mean he was either a military rigger or an older/uncurrent sport jumper not familiar enough with the PC to repack it.

But, did he really need to repack at all, as asking for more than one rig raised the possibility of his taking one of the crewmembers with him and thus ruled out sabotaging the rigs. Maybe he was just overly paranoid or in his nervousness he zapped the rig open by mistake.

On the winds, well who really knows, what they were doing where and when he landed. And even if they were high a tree landing may have made the landing more survivable then less so. The fact they've never found the parachute, besides the fact it's an awful big search area, leads me to think he landed okay, got the rig out of the tree, and buried it.

The money the young boy found in the river mud was probably planted, to make it appear he didn’t make it, and a smart thing to do in hindsight.

The FBI is/was approaching this all wrong. The denigrated the guy, as a lowdown criminal scumbag taking a wild ass chance, and mainly because he beat them. (And during a time when J. Edgar Hoover is prancing around his office in a tutu). Crazy When rather they should have thought, okay, he definitely knew what he was doing, so how did he do it?

Either way you've got to admit, of all the great mysteries of our time, this one is a doozy . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194




airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 19, 2007, 5:28 PM
Post #196 of 1694 (4106 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
The rigs provided to Cooper: Now that I have made contact with Cossey perhaps we will get ACCURATE information about what was sent and used.

I have heard and read many different versions of the types of chutes provided and the one used. Hopefully very soon we will know the actual facts regarding this.



In reply to:

Please keep us all updated as to your progress Jo, we are perhaps 'almost' as curious as you are...and wish you success in the quest~!


1969912

Feb 20, 2007, 8:38 PM
Post #197 of 1694 (4041 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I went to that site, but I didn't find anything.

UnimpressedThey were shiny - like new condition. So upon going to some of the sites I would say that they were high grade metal. One I believe was triangle shaped - I think, but my memory is dull on this. The other end was retangular. They were connected by what I call a chain - he may have connected these two items himself as reminders. He may have cut them off of the chute.One of these items had a slide that had ridges, but I don't remember which one - I do remember playing with the slide thing.




"triangle shaped"

Could it be a Capewell?

http://www.paragear.com/...e.asp?group=246#H367

A couple diferent syles are shown on that page. And didn't some have a short loop of ~1/8" aircraft cable that may be the "chain"?


(This post was edited by 1969912 on Feb 20, 2007, 8:42 PM)




CReW  (D License)

Feb 20, 2007, 11:26 PM
Post #199 of 1694 (4006 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

<<They might have to admit that an OLD woman actually did their job>>

I think the "OLD woman" IS D B Cooper.




Zing  (D 6343)

Feb 22, 2007, 2:56 PM
Post #201 of 1694 (5389 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Don't worry about that, Jo. Lot of us here have been accused of being crazy, or worse. You keep digging, and we'll keep trying to help when and where we can.






BillyVance  (D 18895)

Feb 23, 2007, 10:05 PM
Post #204 of 1694 (5322 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
SmileSeeking information regarding a Ray Griffin - not sure of the spelling - would probably be deceased now.

Unimpressed Is there anyway to find out if a Ray Griffin was ever listed as a skydiver?

You might try contacting USPA... http://www.uspa.org


wartload

Feb 27, 2007, 11:02 AM
Post #205 of 1694 (5234 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
PICTURES - I HOPE:

1970 - A black and white made in Columbia, S.C. - showing he was in excellent physical condition.
Please NOTE his stance - this is very important.
NOTE: Also that the hair is grey in this poor quality picture.
(I believe he may have been jumping in that area under another name.

For what it's worth, Jo, I was jumping at various DZs in the Carolinas during that time period, and I can tell you that he would have really stood out as a "really old guy" at that point--from either photo. Most of the active skydivers were in their 20s, and the typical "old guy" was in their 30s. The POPS eligible jumpers (Parachutists Over Phorty Society) were few and far between ... and tended to be well known by everyone. They were a novelty, if you will, and most had great stories. If he was jumping in that area, at that time, someone's likely to remember him.


wartload

Feb 27, 2007, 11:46 AM
Post #206 of 1694 (5229 views)
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     Re: [1969912] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jo - I think that you need to eventually look at the pictures posted by 1969912 . Could the "chain thing" have actually been braided steel cable? How thick was the "chain" that you remember?

(Anyone else have shot-and-a-halfs come to mind?)








labrys  (D 29848)

Mar 22, 2007, 11:57 AM
Post #210 of 1694 (4792 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

That's very interesting. Thanks for the updates




NickDG  (D 8904)

Mar 26, 2007, 6:31 PM
Post #212 of 1694 (4666 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jo, I'm sure you've seen these, but for others following along, or new to it, here are the FBI files on the case . . .

There an interesting narrative by the guy who hoaxed he was D.B. Cooper. He told his story to newspaper reporter and got $30,000 for it.

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/dbcooper.htm

NickD Smile
BASE 194




NickDG  (D 8904)

Mar 26, 2007, 8:43 PM
Post #214 of 1694 (4648 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Okay, first make sure you have the free Adobe Reader installed on your computer, you probably do, but if not you'll need it to read PDF files, you can get it here:

http://www.adobe.com/...robat/readstep2.html

Also these are rather large files so if you are on a slow internet connection it may seem the computer froze when it's really downloading the file.

Try this; Right click your mouse on the file name and in the box that pops up left click on "save target as" another file box will pop up (make a note of the file name and which directory it's being saved to) and click ok.

You should then see a box that lets you know the file is actually downloading. If you are on a slow connection, like a modem, and not high speed cable, go make a pot of coffee and clean the bathroom, when you come back it will be done.

If you are on a cable just give it more time. Also at the library there many be some type of blocking software in place.

NickD Smile
BASE 194


GavTr0n  (D 29913)

Mar 30, 2007, 6:10 AM
Post #215 of 1694 (4558 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 well you have my attention.

Quote:






fallfast69

Apr 3, 2007, 8:39 AM
Post #218 of 1694 (4363 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
someone out there who knows exactly what I am talking about...(clue) snapping a pine cone from its host over 100 yards away?

Sniper?






chuteless  (D 41)

Apr 10, 2007, 7:32 AM
Post #221 of 1694 (4131 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Say, does anyone out there have change for a wet $20. bill ????


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Apr 10, 2007, 7:35 AM
Post #222 of 1694 (4130 views)
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     Re: [chuteless] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
Say, does anyone out there have change for a wet $20. bill ??

Is that all thats left Shocked


chuteless  (D 41)

Apr 10, 2007, 7:55 AM
Post #223 of 1694 (4121 views)
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     Re: [lisamariewillbe] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

ONE ( question) of many......




bozo  (D 10154)

Apr 16, 2007, 7:49 AM
Post #225 of 1694 (3968 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

[reply

LaughIf the FBI has such evidence don't you think it would be in good conscience to share it with someone who has used up the prime of her life .

That statement right there sums up the sadness of this whole thread.




JohnRich  (D License)

Apr 17, 2007, 10:14 AM
Post #227 of 1694 (4936 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
How can a 6 time felon with 17 accumulated yrs in prison. purchase a gun... spend 72 hrs in a mental holding area and be released and his gun returned to him?

Back in those days there was no background check for a gun purchase, so the gun store would not have known he was a felon. Even if they had, a gun could be purchased from a private individual, outside of normal sales channels.

The 72-hour thing in Florida is called the "Baker Act", for the legislation which allows the state to hold someone for three days if they are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others. Once a psychiatrist clears you of such allegations, then you are released, and your property returned.

Again, maybe they didn't know his criminal history when the returned the gun. They didn't have the fancy computer systems back then that we have now, with centralized databases, and states didn't necessarily share info with other states. Or perhaps he then went out and bought another gun to replace the one that the state kept.

There are always ways for criminals to get guns. Gun laws don't stop them.




azdiver  (A License)

Apr 21, 2007, 1:13 AM
Post #229 of 1694 (4778 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

what year did this happen


airtwardo  (D License)

Apr 21, 2007, 7:02 PM
Post #230 of 1694 (4734 views)
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     Re: [azdiver] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
what year did this happen

I think Jo (skyjack71) only gets on line really late at night, so I'll answer.

The SKYJACK was 'in 71 Wink




azdiver  (A License)

Apr 22, 2007, 6:13 PM
Post #232 of 1694 (4671 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

sorry should have been more specific i was asking for the year of the arrest and detainment. i think in the 90s their was alot of scandals with mvd/dmv employees selling ids. if it was through the goverment it might have checked out.




mattmais

May 7, 2007, 5:41 PM
Post #234 of 1694 (4446 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

just a suggestion, when you dump his ashes, why dont you do it while performing a Tandem Jump??




ltdiver  (D 20506)

May 8, 2007, 2:03 PM
Post #236 of 1694 (4364 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
just a suggestion, when you dump his ashes, why dont you do it while performing a Tandem Jump??

PirateI am 67 yrs old, with osteoperosis. One bad knee (needs surgery), disk and vertebra problems plus multiple health problems. Due to an automobile accident in 2000 - I have enough broken bones for one life time...not going to push my luck.

Smile"Thank you, but No Thank You" as I was taught to mine my manners as a child. Yrs ago I entertained the idea, but no more.

Make sure you take someone to video the event, then. Video -and- stills if possible. I'm sure there's a local cameraflyer in the area who'd love to accompany you if you want someone with experience. They can shoot from the door of the plane and will have a rig on just in case. Smile

ltdiver




IanHarrop  (C 1152)

May 24, 2007, 9:21 PM
Post #238 of 1694 (4070 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

http://www.newsregister.com/....cfm?story_no=222165

Sheridan man laughs off D.B. Cooper talk

Published: May 24, 2007

By PAUL DAQUILANTE
Of the News-Register


SHERIDAN - Dan Dvorak and Matt Myers are convinced they've found D.B. Cooper alive and well in Sheridan.

No doubt about it, they say. It's former City Councilor Ted Mayfield, a longtime skydiving and aviation enthusiast.

To which Mayfield responds, "I'm definitely not D.B. Cooper."

Mike Donahue of Portland's KOIN-TV, broadcast on channel 6, produced a three-part series on Cooper. In the course of preparing the series, he interviewed Dvorak and Myers, a pair of amateur detectives who claim they have thoroughly researched the Cooper case and concluded Mayfield is the hijacker who parachuted out of a Northwest Airlines passenger jet over Southwest Washington on Nov. 24, 1971, and disappeared with $200,000 in cash.

"I've got to ask you," Donahue said to Mayfield, concluding the third part of his series. "Are you D.B. Cooper?" Mayfield laughed and said, "No, I'm not. I'm not quite that clever."

---

A man who identified himself as Dan Cooper boarded the jetliner in Portland on Thanksgiving eve. Before the plane landed at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, he handed a stewardess a note saying he was hijacking the aircraft.

He ordered her to inform ground officials he wanted $200,000 and four parachutes delivered to him when the plane landed. He displayed what appeared to be a bomb.

After the plane was refueled and the money and parachutes were delivered, the plane took off with only four crewmen and the hijacker aboard.

Shortly thereafter, Cooper jumped from the plane. It was presumed at the time that the jump occurred over a forested part of northern Clark or southern Cowlitz counties.

The incident drew worldwide attention. Treasure-hunters and psychics have tried to solve the mystery, but to no avail.

In February 1980, a boy from Vancouver, Wash., 8-year-old Brian Ingram, found $5,800 in decayed money on a Columbia River beach about five miles downstream from Vancouver. That triggered widespread speculation it was part of the Cooper loot.

No other trace of either the hijacker or money has ever turned up.

Mayfield said he has followed the Cooper case over the years. He's even participated in celebrations held in Washington to mark the event.

He has also parachuted into the area where it's believed Cooper landed, as part of the celebration. He described the experience as a fun thing to do.

Mayfield said he spoke with FBI agents at the time of the hijacking. They wanted to know if it was possible to jump out of a Boeing 727.

Though he was a skydiving expert, he didn't know. But when he learned the plane's rear stairway could be lowered in flight, he concluded it would be.

Agents told Mayfield they believed the hijacker had, in fact, parachuted out.

Given that, Mayfield said, "I knew what he wanted. He wanted to go to 10,000 feet at 200 mph."

Ralph Himmelsbach, who worked the case before his retirement from the FBI, told Donahue he had dismissed any notion about Mayfield many years ago.

That hasn't stopped Dvorak and Myers from coming to their own conclusion, though. Mayfield said they've visited him three times at the Sheridan Airport, and have told him they're convinced he's Cooper.

They told Donahue, "He might be completely innocent, but we'd like to know where he was between 2 and 8:15 p.m. that day."

Mayfield said that's easy. He was at a parachute school in Donald during the day and had a dinner engagement he kept that night. He said there are people who can vouch for his whereabouts.

What's more, he noted, "They said Cooper was tall and slender. I told them I'm not tall and slender. I'm four inches too short and 40 pounds too heavy.

"They said they were going to sell a lot of books, and asked me, 'Do you want to be D.B. Cooper?' I told them to get out of here."

Mayfield said his telephone started ringing right after the first part of the series aired. He said people he hadn't spoken to in 15 or 20 years called.

"They wanted to know, 'How did you get that started?' I told them, 'I didn't,'" he said.

Sheridan businessman Val Adamson, a former mayor now serving on the council, has known Mayfield for years. He caught the series, and could hardly believe what he was seeing and hearing.

"Is Ted capable of such a thing?" Adamson asked. "Oh yea," he concluded.

"Is he smart enough? Oh yea."

Adamson added, "Ted was good enough in all aspects to handle that with no sweat, if he put his mind to it. But he doesn't fit the physical description too well.

"Like all of us," Adamson said, "he's done some stupid things in his life. But he's the kind of guy you can't help but like.

"To think he would do something like that, I don't think so. To endanger people like that, that's not in him."


---


BillyVance  (D 18895)

May 24, 2007, 11:42 PM
Post #239 of 1694 (4058 views)
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     Re: [IanHarrop] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Dan and Matt sound like idiots... I saw the 20/20 show years ago about Mayfield's DZ and the excessive deaths he had. He looks NOTHING like the hijacker based on the sketches and description. He may have been bullish about how he ran his DZ but he is by no means smart enough to pull a stunt like that hijacking off.

I am inclined to believe skyjack's husband was DB Cooper.


bozo  (D 10154)

May 25, 2007, 6:17 AM
Post #240 of 1694 (4022 views)
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     Re: [IanHarrop] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

[reply
"To think he would do something like that, I don't think so. To endanger people like that, that's not in him."
---
The person that made this statement is a complete idiot or doesnt know Mayfield very well.
Mayfield endangered more people than can be imagined just by owning a dropzone and his bodycount over the history of that same dropzone is evidence.


steve1  (D 23640)

May 25, 2007, 7:04 AM
Post #241 of 1694 (4021 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

reply]

The person that made this statement is a complete idiot or doesnt know Mayfield very well.
Mayfield endangered more people than can be imagined just by owning a dropzone and his bodycount over the history of that same dropzone is evidence........................................................
This is no doubt very true. A lot of trusting people died there that shouldn't have.

I didn't know Ted that well, but you couldn't help but like the guy. I have no doubt he was wild and crazy enough to do something like hi-jack a plane. My first thought though was that he didn't look anything like D.B. Cooper during that time period. Sounds like the F.B.I. was grasping at straws.

I still think D.B. Cooper is laying in the bottom of the Columbia River....Steve1




airtwardo  (D License)

May 26, 2007, 12:04 AM
Post #243 of 1694 (3958 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

http://www.kxnet.com/news/local/69978.asp




steve1  (D 23640)

May 27, 2007, 7:43 PM
Post #245 of 1694 (3862 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Last I heard Ted was still living at Sheridan, Oregon. You might check to see if his phone number is listed. I don't think he served any time in jail. I'm not sure how he avoided prison, with the seriousness of his crimes. I think he even had a stolen aircraft on his dropzone when he was busted. There are others on these forums that know his situation much better than I. I'll bet he'd enjoy talking to you about D.B. Cooper....Steve1


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

May 27, 2007, 8:25 PM
Post #246 of 1694 (3854 views)
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     Re: [steve1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi steve1,

He still lives in Sheridan but does spend winter-time in the Tuscon area; his new wife is from that area.

He has spent more than one turn in the pokey, though. Pirate

Jerry


BillyVance  (D 18895)

May 27, 2007, 8:47 PM
Post #247 of 1694 (3845 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hi steve1,

He still lives in Sheridan but does spend winter-time in the Tuscon area; his new wife is from that area.

He has spent more than one turn in the pokey, though. Pirate

Jerry

Yes he has. That is what was said when 20/20 did their story on him in the late '90s. I'll have to look for the VHS tape that I used to tape that episode on and review it. Basically they focused on a student who died on his first jump, then focused on Ted's past and history of running that DZ. I couldn't believe at the time that anybody could have a record that bad... so many fatalities... Crazy

He was a stubborn fool too. The authorities even confiscated all of his skydiving gear, and what does he do? Go borrow gear from another DZ and be back in business the next weekend! Unimpressed At least that is how I remember it. I still have to review the tape.


(This post was edited by BillyVance on May 27, 2007, 8:49 PM)




GrabGrass  (D 666999)

May 27, 2007, 11:52 PM
Post #249 of 1694 (3827 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:

What do we do if we actually solve this thing on DZ?


In reply to:

Move on to the Lindberg kidnapping? Wink


(This post was edited by GrabGrass on May 28, 2007, 12:11 AM)


bozo  (D 10154)

May 28, 2007, 5:41 AM
Post #250 of 1694 (3811 views)
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     Re: [GrabGrass] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:

What do we do if we actually solve this thing on DZ?

In reply to:

Move on to the Lindberg kidnapping? Wink


Who "really" killed President Kennedy ?


airtwardo  (D License)

May 28, 2007, 7:55 AM
Post #251 of 1694 (4693 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:

What do we do if we actually solve this thing on DZ?

In reply to:

Move on to the Lindberg kidnapping? Wink


Who "really" killed President Kennedy ?



Which really is it....Taste Great or Less Filling. ?? Blush


davidlayne  (D 3102)

May 28, 2007, 11:05 AM
Post #252 of 1694 (4677 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:

What do we do if we actually solve this thing on DZ?

In reply to:

Move on to the Lindberg kidnapping? Wink


Who "really" killed President Kennedy ?



Which really is it....Taste Great or Less Filling. ?? Blush


Where are all of those Kruger Rands?




GrabGrass  (D 666999)

May 28, 2007, 11:47 AM
Post #254 of 1694 (4664 views)
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     Re: [davidlayne] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:

What do we do if we actually solve this thing on DZ?

In reply to:

Move on to the Lindberg kidnapping? Wink


Who "really" killed President Kennedy ?



Which really is it....Taste Great or Less Filling. ?? Blush


Where are all of those Kruger Rands?



Why is the RUM gone ?! Pirate


Orange1  (B 2638)

May 28, 2007, 11:50 AM
Post #255 of 1694 (4661 views)
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     Re: [davidlayne] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:

What do we do if we actually solve this thing on DZ?

In reply to:

Move on to the Lindberg kidnapping? Wink


Who "really" killed President Kennedy ?



Which really is it....Taste Great or Less Filling. ?? Blush


Where are all of those Kruger Rands?

Lots of Kruger Rands down here but I don't know if they are those kruger rands...Tongue

btw, how do you "inadvertantly" teach someone to skydive Wink

Hey Jo... let us know how it goes if you contact Mayfield and he talks to you!




labrys  (D 29848)

May 28, 2007, 8:18 PM
Post #257 of 1694 (4626 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
Which really is it....Taste Great or Less Filling. ??

That means nothing compared to the bigger question about whether your chocolate is in my peanut butter vs my peanut butter being on your chocolate.

Really Unsure




steve1  (D 23640)

May 29, 2007, 2:50 PM
Post #259 of 1694 (4543 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 



UnimpressedThe guys who perpetrated this fraud and slander should in my opinion be prosecuted.

PirateI myself got caught up in the hype for a couple of days and for that I apologize to ALL including Mr. Mayfield...........................................................
What part of this are you calling fraud and hype?

I've jumped at his D.Z. and know for a fact that a lot of people burned in there, that shouldn't have. He was told by the F.A.A. that he could never operate another Drop Zone anywhere. Would they have done this if he hadn't done several things wrong?

In the Oregonian Newspaper he was accused of having a stolen aircraft on his Drop Zone, while authorities investigated his part in several drop zone deaths.

I'm sure Ted has explanations for all of this, but the bottom line is that he was a scary individual to have running a Drop zone.

There are plenty more Ted Mayfield stories out there, and they're not all based on slander and hype.

Personally, I liked the guy, but that doesn't erase some of the things he's done over the years.....Steve1




Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
May 29, 2007, 9:56 PM
Post #261 of 1694 (4483 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
Two guys claimed that Mayfield was "Cooper". That is the only issue I have any concerns about. Anything else Mayfield may or may not have done is not relevant to this thread.

As relevant as any one of a number of other "facts" surrounding the D.B. Cooper mythology.

Jo, while you may have "started" this thread, it "belongs" to dz.com. Please don't try to limit what other people can and can't say on the topic. That is not your job here.

Further, if you have any personal issues with individuals, please take them to Private Messages and off the Forum.


(This post was edited by quade on May 29, 2007, 9:58 PM)




JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

May 30, 2007, 7:21 PM
Post #263 of 1694 (4394 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi skyjack,

Quote:
He has not served time except for one civil matter

Let me disagree with you on this. And one does not go to jail in a civil litigation matter.

Ted has been convicted in both federal and state courts. He has served time at least three times, or so he told me on a trip we did back in '02.

I've known him since '64 and made most of my jumps at his dz's. I just NEVER sent a student there.

And a prudent jumper would never go on a demo he organized. Unsure

Jerry

PS) In his defense, he is the most optimistic person I have ever known.


bozo  (D 10154)

May 30, 2007, 7:30 PM
Post #264 of 1694 (4393 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hi skyjack,

Quote:
He has not served time except for one civil matter

Let me disagree with you on this. And one does not go to jail in a civil litigation matter.

Ted has been convicted in both federal and state courts. He has served time at least three times, or so he told me on a trip we did back in '02.

.

Those are the facts as I know them, Jerry.
I know a bunch more, but it isnt worth arguing about with people that heard this and that from somebodies cousin 20 years ago.




JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

May 31, 2007, 9:55 AM
Post #266 of 1694 (4342 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi bozo,

Quote:
I know a bunch more, but it isnt worth arguing about with people that heard this and that from somebodies cousin 20 years ago.

Ain't that the truth,

Jerry


Orange1  (B 2638)

May 31, 2007, 11:59 AM
Post #267 of 1694 (4321 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I know very little about the US legal system: is "negligent homicide" classed as a civil matter?

In the Oregon case, Ted Mayfield—a sky-dive operator implicated in the death of thirteen parachutists in twenty-two years—pled guilty to negligent homicide after supplying a client with a backup parachute device that he knew was defective. He received a sentence of five months in jail, plus three years’ probation. The court also required him to pay $5,675 in restitution and to refrain from any future involvement with skydiving.

I haven't read the whole tortuous legal document (http://lawweb.colorado.edu/.../ramsey/Hastings.pdf , above quote taken from p36) but it seems from a skim-read that this was a "criminal sanction".

Jo - re your question about dates - I am assuming May 1995 from this footnote in the above: See Man Gets Jail in Sky-Diving Deaths, PORTLAND OREGONIAN, May 19, 1995, at B4,available at 1995 WL 3601458. Article does not seem to be on the net but I guess someone who knows what that reference means should be able to track it down.


(This post was edited by Orange1 on May 31, 2007, 1:40 PM)


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
May 31, 2007, 3:08 PM
Post #268 of 1694 (4296 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I know very little about the US legal system: is "negligent homicide" classed as a civil matter?

No. That would be criminal.






flybounce  (Student)

Jun 10, 2007, 8:27 PM
Post #271 of 1694 (3987 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I think her story is all bark and no bite. Those guys on youtube.com (use site search for The Real DB Cooper) seem to have actual evidence pointing to old slick Teddy. Seriously, i've always liked the guy, but i think they're right.


(This post was edited by flybounce on Jun 10, 2007, 8:28 PM)


Zing  (D 6343)

Jun 10, 2007, 10:20 PM
Post #272 of 1694 (3978 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

" ... but i think they're right."


Yeah, but that would mean you're thinking wrong.


flybounce  (Student)

Jun 11, 2007, 4:10 PM
Post #273 of 1694 (3903 views)
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     Re: [Zing] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
" ... but i think they're right."


Yeah, but that would mean you're thinking wrong.

wow! you offered a lot of facts for your supposition. you must be from interpol or something. what do you actually know? let's hear it.


flybounce  (Student)

Jun 11, 2007, 4:14 PM
Post #274 of 1694 (3901 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

well, i waited. can't wait longer. i'll be back to check out your dazzling stuff later.


jackwilson  (Student)

Jun 12, 2007, 7:11 AM
Post #275 of 1694 (3837 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

My two cents

I've seen the youtube story, and articles about Ted in the paper.

According to the two guys on tv, it seems Ted was nailed for armed robbery in 1971, just before the Cooper heist.

Then, as mentioned earlier, the stolen plane which resulted in jail time in 1977.

Then, he has the two counts of criminal negligent homicide from 1994. Someone else mentioned he got nabbed for stealing electricity during the mid-80's.

So, it does appear that teddy has seen the inside of the county and federal jail systems.

I hope that clears things up.

I can't believe he told skyjack he had only been in jail for a "civil" matter.


JohnRich  (D License)

Jun 12, 2007, 9:53 AM
Post #276 of 1694 (4573 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
well, i waited. can't wait longer. i'll be back to check out your dazzling stuff later.

Wow, you waited a whole four minutes! And then after waiting only four minutes for a reply, you proceeded with sarcastic insults anyway.

You must have more patience, little grasshopper.

Believe it or not, most people are not online all the time, anxiously awaiting messages to trickle in. It's usually a one-pass per day kind of thing.

And what you've done here says a lot more about yourself, then it does about the person to whom you directed your comments.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jun 12, 2007, 10:38 AM
Post #277 of 1694 (4556 views)
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     Re: [JohnRich] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

You're wasting your time trying to educate an anonymous troll.

I mean, sure, this is all a huge waste of time so what's the diff, but come on!


flybounce  (Student)

Jun 12, 2007, 4:04 PM
Post #278 of 1694 (4524 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

evidently, Ted lies about quite a bit when this case is mentioned. odd. the two freelance investigators, according to wikipedia db cooper article (section on Ted), say he lied about his alibi. odd.


(This post was edited by flybounce on Jun 12, 2007, 4:07 PM)


flybounce  (Student)

Jun 12, 2007, 4:12 PM
Post #279 of 1694 (4520 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

as for the anonymous troll comment and my education to which it referred, i get your point. from now on i'll only reply to that which has a modicum of substance pertaining to the issue at hand (excepting this one last time, of course).Wink


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 13, 2007, 12:12 PM
Post #280 of 1694 (4459 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi jackwilson,

I could not remember if the armed robbery conviction was in '70 or '71. He did not do anytime for that crime; suspended sentence.

The '77 conviction was for interstate transportation of stolen property (the airplane) and he did about a year at McNeil Island in the Puget Sound area (a federal prison). He got himself assigned to the garbage truck detail which allowed him outside of the prison to go dump the garbage at a local landfill. Then Lenny Aikens would go out to the landfill a little earlier and hide a jug of booze that Ted would smuggle back inside to share with folks. Cool

Jerry


jackwilson  (Student)

Jun 14, 2007, 1:27 AM
Post #281 of 1694 (4434 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi Jerry

Ya, that is my understanding also. The armed robbery resulted in no jail time, just probation or a suspended sentence.

Makes sense he got a job driving a garbage truck. According to the one article, Ted used to drive for 7-up in the mid 60's until he got popped for the armed robbery.

So, it doesnt' sound like Ted would have served any time with skyjack's husband before the Cooper hijacking.

Funny thing, the one show mentioned that TEd knew the FBI agent who investigated the Cooper case before the hijacking. According to the show, Ted called this guy 2 hours after Cooper jumped, and said that he didn't want him to think he was the hijacker. Sounds strange. Why not wait and see if the FBI catches the guy first? I wonder if Ted ever had a regular job after the Cooper case? It is kind of a strange coincidence.

jack




avenfoto  (A 44631)

Jul 11, 2007, 11:01 AM
Post #283 of 1694 (4094 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

found this googling ted mayfield.... scroll halfway down and have a look.


mattmais

Jul 18, 2007, 7:02 PM
Post #284 of 1694 (3949 views)
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     Re: [avenfoto] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 
speaking of dan weber....and looking at the previous posts link..... is this true Mrs Weber?


There has also been a positive identification made by Robert Knoss of Minneapolis, Minnesota, a former acquaintance of Duane Weber, identifying him to be also known as Dan Cooper, who resided in Bloomington, Minnesota, where he practiced to be a skilled parachutist three years prior to the hijacking.


flybounce  (Student)

Jul 19, 2007, 4:55 PM
Post #285 of 1694 (3873 views)
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     Re: [mattmais] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

maybe another good question besides, "is it true?" is, "is there any supporting, verifiable evidence?"

the wikepedia thing on teddy in the db cooper article is frickin amazing. thanks for the link.






flybounce  (Student)

Jul 24, 2007, 9:10 PM
Post #288 of 1694 (3660 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

skyjack 71, i'm sorry for your loss. i'm sure evryone wishes you well also with your current health problems. i'm guessing matt did not intend, nor is it my intent to cause you undue stress, but this case is a fascinating bit of american history that is still being debated and discussed. if i defer strongly to a case that to my mind seems to have much more logical and supported evidence from two freelance investigators that appear to have no previous motive for personal attachment to the way the cards fall, it is not meant as a personal slight or attack. you are making a claim in public and should not expect everyone to agree with you.
if you beleive in your case, i would expect a challenge would be met by you with happy eagerness at the opportunity to present another facet of your case and it's evidence. when you have the energy, convince me.
i'm not sure some of what your talking about, but the sketch on wikipedia was done with a sketch artist from one of only two people (the stewardesses) that ever actually got close to and talked with db (i know he used a fake name that was not a name he used for himself and it was dan, but i'll say db) and knew that he was commiting a crime (a reason to try to remember him).
florence did the sketch because she said none of the composites the fbi were circulating looked like db. (otherwise bing crosby may have been a suspect:) also, if composite sketches wer often reliable, we might have to release the unabomber:)
the one on wiki is the one done by florence schaffner. it is probably the most reliable to date.
also, if you are interested in seeing teddy on video at his current age, go to youtube.com and use the site search for "the real db cooper".
if i can further clarify my position for you, i'd be more than happy to.
hope all goes well with you.


(This post was edited by flybounce on Jul 24, 2007, 9:18 PM)




Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jul 26, 2007, 9:36 AM
Post #290 of 1694 (3552 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] Composite [In reply to]  

In reply to:
ShockedSomeone out there only recently appeared on the site and has posted only on the Cooper thread.
Need I say more.

While I personally find anonymous posting on most topics an act of cowardice, I do understand why someone might not exactly want their personal identity associated with this thread.

My "guess" is that "they" aren't out there stalking you, but rather are interested in the topic yet also slightly embarrassed to be associated with some aspects of it and are probably persons that already were ON this web site, just not posting under that particular name.

For instance, lets say . . . the Director of the USPA knew all about the DB Cooper case (actually knew who the man was and knew you were either right or wrong) . . . I could certainly understand his wanting to be anonymous in this thread.


(This post was edited by quade on Jul 26, 2007, 9:39 AM)


flybounce  (Student)

Jul 26, 2007, 10:49 PM
Post #291 of 1694 (3497 views)
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     Re: [quade] Composite [In reply to]  

good thinking


flybounce  (Student)

Jul 26, 2007, 11:06 PM
Post #292 of 1694 (3487 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] Composite [In reply to]  

i will share two undeniable facts with you that you will just have to take my word for. i am not the one that got some other site shut down (how does a site get shut down? lawsuit?) is the site called winnepeg? never been there. your skills at matching a 'rhetorical posting style' are here flawed.
the other is that i cannot, no matter how good your goading skills, be goaded into something i don't want to do.
oddly enough, j.w. we run in some of the same circles and know some of the same people. rest at ease though, i am the furthest thing from a stalker. i do have great interest in this case, though.
i do not have interest in talking with you privately. speaking of 'retoric' (sic), i have not seen any hard evidence from you.

by the way, you are patently wrong about the sketch on wiki not being the florence schaffner sketch. sometime you should catch the episode of unsolved mysteries it came from.

also, if mayfield is not a very compelling case, why are you trying to show how duane also looked like him?


flybounce  (Student)

Jul 26, 2007, 11:18 PM
Post #293 of 1694 (3485 views)
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     Re: [quade] Composite [In reply to]  

"good thinking" on further review makes it possibly look like i am claiming to be director of uspa.
i am making no such claim here.


jackwilson  (Student)

Jul 27, 2007, 6:56 PM
Post #294 of 1694 (3423 views)
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     Re: [mattmais] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
speaking of dan weber....and looking at the previous posts link..... is this true Mrs Weber?


There has also been a positive identification made by Robert Knoss of Minneapolis, Minnesota, a former acquaintance of Duane Weber, identifying him to be also known as Dan Cooper, who resided in Bloomington, Minnesota, where he practiced to be a skilled parachutist three years prior to the hijacking.

I must have missed it, but, was this question answered.

Who is this Robert Knoss?

So, he knew Skyjack's husband, and that he used Dan Cooper as an alias?

If true, why would someone use a known alias, to hijack a plane, when other's are well aware of your use of this alias, and your skydiving expertise?

Doesn't make any sense to me?

Cooper only had to give the name once, so, it's not like he had to memorize the name, ss#, address, etc. Back in 71, you didn't even need id to by a ticket to board a plane.

If true, why didn't Knoss call the FBI, and collect the reward? And how could he remember an acquaintance's alias, years later?

WAs Knoss the instructor who taught Weber to dive? Cause i've never heard of him.

What was the name of the instructor? What skydiving center, as I've been to a few in the midwest?

jack






flybounce  (Student)

Jul 28, 2007, 9:49 AM
Post #297 of 1694 (3373 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

why would you "sit on" something untill now?

all sounds like strategy to me.

going to such lengths to protect the identity of someone who commited the crime of knowing an alias (i agree with jack - alias thing makes no sense) or teaching someone to skydive is very noble, but it sounds like an excuse to not produce anything verifiable.

how do i know it is the schaffner sketch? i have a tape of the show.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jul 28, 2007, 10:26 AM
Post #298 of 1694 (3365 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
why would you "sit on" something untill now?

all sounds like strategy to me.

If you took the time to read through the whole thread, you'd find that she just not that long ago realized her ex husband may have been involved in the skyjacking and then started her research. I hope she can finish putting all the pieces together before her time is up.


jackwilson  (Student)

Jul 28, 2007, 12:54 PM
Post #299 of 1694 (3358 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
why would you "sit on" something untill now?

all sounds like strategy to me.

If you took the time to read through the whole thread, you'd find that she just not that long ago realized her ex husband may have been involved in the skyjacking and then started her research. I hope she can finish putting all the pieces together before her time is up.


Not true,

Duane Weber's name has been associated with the Cooper case since 2000, when a reporter did an article about Weber in Newsweek or US world magazine. That is over 7 years ago, and in the article, weber admits knowing about her husband possibly being cooper since 1995. So, we are talking about a minimum of 7 years, max, of 12 years. What is the definition of not long ago?

Plus, it this Robert Knoss is such a dangerous name, then, why is his name on winnepeg? Maybe for his safety, it should be removed.

It's true that people can change their appearance, but, it is difficult to change from a man witht a full head of hair, to one who is balding.

Also, we heard this story about robert knoss. Ok, so, who taught Duane how to fly airplanes? Cooper knew flap settings, about gear, aftstairs, range, etc, not something a non-pilot would have on the tip of his tongue during a hijacking.

Plus, I heard a report that the fBI had closed their case on Duane, since there isn't any evidence suggesting he is Cooper. As a matter of fact, the only reason the FBI opened a file, is because someone called Himmelsbach 100 times, and got him to phone the FBI and have them open a file on Weber. Truth be told, without Himmelsbach, who now doubts that Weber is a good suspect, Weber would have never even been considered. Seems like himmelsbach was told of an airline ticket from Seattle to POrtland in the name of Cooper, and then when pressed, this ticket somehow vanished. Interesting.

jacko


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Jul 28, 2007, 12:55 PM)


flybounce  (Student)

Jul 28, 2007, 2:59 PM
Post #300 of 1694 (3350 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

again, i wish jo well, but not at the expense of truth. show me something compelling. convince me. i see nothing compelling about her case backed up by evidence. i have my doubts, but not a closed mind on this fascinating subject.

also, i have things i want to get done before my time is up. i ask no one for sympathy and i welcome an attack on my views and the views of others that are sound and well founded. i can back them up.

i do seriously wish her well, but if i was at death's door, would i get less challenge for a case i believe in? one's got nothing to do with the other. i just like more verifiable facts - something with meat i can chew on. if jo wants to find the truth (in my opinion, if we knew the truth about the case 100%, she would reject it.) don't "sit on" evidence. lay it all out at once. more truth the better. maybe someone could chew on it and come up with some good suggestions. but so far, i'm sorry, it seems to be structured like a propaganda campaign.

or maybe it is a learned response to putting something out there to grab attention, and not being able to take it back. like the ticket stub.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jul 28, 2007, 4:15 PM
Post #301 of 1694 (4714 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
Duane Weber's name has been associated with the Cooper case since 2000, when a reporter did an article about Weber in Newsweek or US world magazine. That is over 7 years ago, and in the article, weber admits knowing about her husband possibly being cooper since 1995. So, we are talking about a minimum of 7 years, max, of 12 years. What is the definition of not long ago?

Well, I could say relatively speaking in regards to the date of the skyjacking. This research takes a good long while to do in spite of all that she has going on in her life.




ridgerunrbunny

Jul 30, 2007, 12:00 PM
Post #303 of 1694 (4623 views)
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     My take on this [In reply to]  

In 1968 I met Ken Lynn an aka. Kenny was learning to jump in Lake Elsinore DZ and became very good at it. As years went by I learned that Ken was actually Gary Allen Hineman and in the FBI's top ten wanted list. I liked Ken very much, as a matter of fact we dated for a while, but he disappeared out of my life never to be seen again. It was several years later that this DB Cooper thing happened and I always wondered who could do that, who had the desire to do it. My take is that it was Ken Lynn that was DB Cooper. And if that is true, he did not die in that jump because he knew how to make it happen, and is living in South America happily under some other name. I think he got married several times, maybe never divorced.

Bunny Speakman


azdiver  (A License)

Jul 30, 2007, 6:12 PM
Post #304 of 1694 (4591 views)
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     Re: [ridgerunrbunny] My take on this [In reply to]  

got a picture, anything to try and support this theory or is this just trolling, jo has some stuff not just throwing out a wild guess.


awsee1  (Student)

Jul 30, 2007, 9:07 PM
Post #305 of 1694 (4561 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Skyjack71,

Can you list the evidence you have that Duane was infact Db Cooper? Can you list any evidence that Duane was even West of the Missippi in 71?

Thanks,

Brenda
In reply to:


(This post was edited by awsee1 on Jul 30, 2007, 9:12 PM)




awsee1  (Student)

Aug 1, 2007, 6:44 AM
Post #307 of 1694 (4455 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Thanks for the info Skyjack. I am familiar with the Cooper case and I did catch one of your shows on cable, my husband says there were two, but nevertheless I only remember one. I'm just curious about facts rather than stories. I guess everyone's got stories, but I'm one of those "get to the bottom of it" kinda gals.

I've only made 6 jumps, and 5 of those were with my husband. I'm still somewhat scared though!!!

But Sky I've finally cover the majority of these pages and it seems that concerning Weber there is really very little that is verifiable? Does that make sense to you?
Can you verify any of the stories so that maybe someone could consider them evidence?

I'm not trashing your husband, or your plight, I'm just curious and would like to know if there is anything this gal or anyone can actually chew on.

Thanks again Skyjack71.!

B.




awsee1  (Student)

Aug 4, 2007, 1:01 PM
Post #309 of 1694 (4304 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:

TongueThe FBI did not interview people who knew him and they didn't even do a complete search of his criminal record. They have never verified that the FBI file prints are actually his prints (another resident who Duane knew and the wives shared living accommodation got his prints change within the system). Duh - wonder who had the skills and the opportunitiy to do that - perhaps an inmate who had priviledges and allowed to work in the office.

Hey Sky,

So what you're telling me is that the FBI has inmates working their finger print database? And that Duane had his fingerprints changed by an inmate friend who got a job that an inmate or ex. con could get, like at the FBI? Hmmmm....wow. I didn't know the FBI hired people like that.

There was a recent story on the news about several people going for jobs at the FBI and they couldn't be hired because they might have smoked pot many years ago. Even though they've been clean for years the FBI wouldn't hire, or is dragging their feet. I bet if those applicants could do it over, they'd trade a few tokes in the past with a criminal record, and they'd have badges. Wow...I didn't know the FBI was like that.

Thanks for the info.

Brenda

P.S. Makes me wonder if there's any relation between the existence of Robert Knoss and smoking pot ???


(This post was edited by awsee1 on Aug 4, 2007, 1:08 PM)




mark  (D 6108)

Aug 5, 2007, 6:01 AM
Post #311 of 1694 (4239 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In 1965-1968 - Jefferson City Federal Prison:

One inmate who escaped and remained at large for some time managed to get his prints changed within the system. ShockedThis is a FACT documented in court records. This man was a friend of Duane's and the two common-law spouses shared living accommodations near the prison. Duane's common law-wife of the time verified the connection in the 90's and prior to her death in 2006.

The warden of this prison was investigated as was many of his staff and charged with inproprieties over a period of yrs..

This same prison has not provided me with the information that I have asked for many times - and what information they have provided changes.

One reason why they might be unable to provide you the information you want is that they don't exist. There is no Federal Prison in Jefferson City, Missouri.

Mark


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Aug 5, 2007, 8:46 AM
Post #312 of 1694 (4226 views)
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     Re: [mark] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
One reason why they might be unable to provide you the information you want is that they don't exist. There is no Federal Prison in Jefferson City, Missouri.

Mark

Are you saying there isn't one there now, or there never was one there?

And if there was one during that time frame but it closed, where do you find the records for it? They have to go somewhere, right?


mark  (D 6108)

Aug 5, 2007, 9:12 AM
Post #313 of 1694 (4224 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Are you saying there isn't one there now, or there never was one there?

Jo uses the present tense to describe her attempts to get information from the so-called prison.

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a Federal Penitentiary in Jefferson City.

Not that it would matter. State and federal fingerprint files are located at state and federal criminal investigation facilities, not at prisons or penitentiaries. Changing fingerprint cards at a prison might help with an identity-theft type of escape via work-release or similar program, but wouldn't change the files anywhere else in the system.

The truth is that Dan Cooper was exchanged with Oleg Penkovsky in a CIA operation. Most of the details of this operation (code-named "Majestic-1", abbreviated "MJ-1") are still secret. Sy Hersh's soon-to-be-released book will shed some light.

Mark


awsee1  (Student)

Aug 5, 2007, 8:52 PM
Post #314 of 1694 (4177 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I think it's pretty clear that Duane Weber was a petty thief and forgerer, and would never have attempted a crime such as air piracy. I googled "db cooper" and I'm astounded at the evidence WRT one TED Mayfield.

For anyone interested pls check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Db_cooper


Registered: Jul 30, 2007
Posts: 16




airtwardo  (D License)

Aug 5, 2007, 11:59 PM
Post #316 of 1694 (4157 views)
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     Re: [mark] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a Federal Penitentiary in Jefferson City.



Quote:

The truth is that Dan Cooper was exchanged with Oleg Penkovsky in a CIA operation.

In reply to:
...and you KNOW that's the 'truth' because of all the research you did? Sly


mark  (D 6108)

Aug 6, 2007, 6:15 AM
Post #317 of 1694 (4138 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
To the best of my knowledge

Not very knowledgeable, I guess.

http://www.bop.gov has the locations of all 21 Federal Penitentiaries, none of which are located in Jefferson City, Missouri.

Jo has changed her story: it's now the Missouri State Penitentiary.

Not that it matters. State and federal investigators do not keep their fingerprint files at prisons and penitentiaries.

James Earl Ray did "escape" from the Missouri State Pen in 1967. Has anybody compared his prints to those of Lee Harvey Oswald? The CIA has attempted to cover its tracks, but the plot is beginning to come to light. Invest in Alcoa.

Mark


(This post was edited by mark on Aug 6, 2007, 6:58 AM)


JohnRich  (D License)

Aug 6, 2007, 11:25 AM
Post #318 of 1694 (4098 views)
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     Re: [mark] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a Federal Penitentiary in Jefferson City.

Then your knowledge is apparently lacking.

According to this web site, there have been executions of federal prisoners there. So it appears that federal prisoners are sometimes kept in State penitentiaries, thus leading to some of your confusion.

And a simple Google search turns up lots of info on the prison, like this.

It was built in 1835, and just decommissioned in October of 2004. That's a long time (169 years) for you to have never noticed it...

IMO, instead of nitpicking exactly what type of prison it is, you should spend a little more effort concentrating on the meat and potatoes of the story.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Aug 6, 2007, 11:33 AM)


mark  (D 6108)

Aug 6, 2007, 12:01 PM
Post #319 of 1694 (4089 views)
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     Re: [JohnRich] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a Federal Penitentiary in Jefferson City.

Then your knowledge is apparently lacking.

According to this web site, there have been executions of federal prisoners there. So it appears that federal prisoners are sometimes kept in State penitentiaries, thus leading to some of your confusion.

And a simple Google search turns up lots of info on the prison, like this.

It was built in 1835, and just decommissioned in October of 2004. That's a long time (169 years) for you to have never noticed it...

IMO, instead of nitpicking exactly what type of prison it is, you should spend a little more effort concentrating on the meat and potatoes of the story.

Sorry. The State Penitentiary is not a Federal Penitentiary.

Not that it matters, since altering fingerprint records there would not alter them anywhere else.

Mark


awsee1  (Student)

Aug 6, 2007, 5:57 PM
Post #320 of 1694 (4056 views)
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     Re: [JohnRich] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
MO, instead of nitpicking exactly what type of prison it is, you should spend a little more effort concentrating on the meat and potatoes of the story.

I've read the entire thread, top to bottom. Not saying I've memorized it, but I'd have to say there is a lot
more "story" than there is meat or potatoes.

Brenda


JohnRich  (D License)

Aug 7, 2007, 9:36 AM
Post #321 of 1694 (4010 views)
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     Re: [mark] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The State Penitentiary is not a Federal Penitentiary.

She called it a federal prison, and you made the statement that there is no such federal prison in that location. That implied that she was off her rocker and making up her story about D.B. Cooper having served time there, and from that single point, implied that the remainder of her story should be discredited also.

In fact, there is a prison there, it's just a State pen instead of a Federal pen. And that State pen has housed federal prisoners, because they've been executed there. And you can't execute 'em if they haven't been there.

So, while your nitpick point is technically correct, the implications that sprung forth from that are not. She is not off her rocker for saying that there was a penitentiary in Jefferson City, because there was. And calling it a Federal penitentiary, since it has housed some federal prisoners, isn't really that big an error.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Aug 7, 2007, 9:39 AM)


mark  (D 6108)

Aug 7, 2007, 11:50 AM
Post #322 of 1694 (3989 views)
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     Re: [JohnRich] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
The State Penitentiary is not a Federal Penitentiary.

She called it a federal prison, and you made the statement that there is no such federal prison in that location. That implied that she was off her rocker and making up her story about D.B. Cooper having served time there, and from that single point, implied that the remainder of her story should be discredited also.

In fact, there is a prison there, it's just a State pen instead of a Federal pen. And that State pen has housed federal prisoners, because they've been executed there. And you can't execute 'em if they haven't been there.

So, while your nitpick point is technically correct, the implications that sprung forth from that are not. She is not off her rocker for saying that there was a penitentiary in Jefferson City, because there was. And calling it a Federal penitentiary, since it has housed some federal prisoners, isn't really that big an error.

I'm not sure that there are federal prisoners serving time (as opposed to waiting execution) in state prisons. Perhaps you'd be able to shed some light on that.

Now the point you haven't responded to: not that it really matters, since the point of her post was fingerprint-switching at the prison or penitentiary, which would hardly affect the fingerprint files held by state or federal investigators.

Erich von Daniken proof: it might have happened, so it did happen.

Mark


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 7, 2007, 1:02 PM
Post #323 of 1694 (3973 views)
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     Re: [mark] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I agree with Mark.

Changing prints at one prison, would not change your prints in the entire federal and state system.

To think, that a prison, would allow prisoners access to fingerprint cards, is very difficult to believe.

Why not just give them a key to their cells.

Plus, if he did change the print cards, how did he get out to prison? Don't the prison's re-print inmates upon release, and check their prints, and photo's, to make sure they are releasing the right prisoner?

Let's assume this happened. Then, why was Duane having nightmare's that he left prints on the aftstairs in 1978? Heck, his prints had been changed in the system, so, the prints on the jet would not match his anyway.

It's a great story, but, is it a story, or the truth.

James Frey wrote a wonderful book, turns out, he took commercial license with certain things.

I get the feeling, the same is happening here.

Jacko.




bozo  (D 10154)

Aug 9, 2007, 10:19 AM
Post #325 of 1694 (3821 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
ShockedShockedI am not going to sit here and let a bunch of unscrupolous trolls try to destroy all that I have done.


MadPS: I said Goodbye, but to sit here and let someone attack my character and claim that I am enhancing the truth, I will not stand for. What part of this do you not understand...at my age and with my health I have NOTHING to gain financially - I just want the truth.

Jo....I am not saying this to be cruel but it needs to be said. You say you want the truth...thats great...but it seems you just want "your" truth and no one elses.
I am quite confident that Duane was just a small time crook and in the same vein, just another liar.
He wasnt DB Cooper.


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 9, 2007, 8:52 PM
Post #326 of 1694 (3655 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I agree with Bozo.

None of us trying to be cruel.

We are simply pointing out "holes" in the story.

Calling someone a "troll", simply because they disagree with your story, is not a cool thing to do.

IF you want to fight back. Get a picture of Duane skydiving, or a name of the doctor in Ca. who treated him for the alleged leg injury, or have the Robert Knoss guy come out of the Witness Protection Program, or the skydiving instructor who taught Duane in the late 60's, or the name of the skydiving center.

BTW: Inside Edition re-ran the episode about Cooper and Mayfield tonight. I missed the first running, and had to catch it on the web. No mention of Duane in the piece.

Skyjack, why don't you contact Inside Edition, and get them to run your story?

jacko




awsee1  (Student)

Aug 13, 2007, 4:01 PM
Post #328 of 1694 (3447 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Skyjack71,

If you are seeking the "truth" why in your profile do you call yourself the "Widow of DB Cooper"?

You have told me in PM's to read this site and see all the "evidence" for myself. I have done just that and can't find anything but "stories" and nonsense. Case in point is post #145 where you try to show that an old photo of someone holding cheap sunglasses and an old 8-track case under a camping table at a garage sale is "proof" that Duane is Cooper.

I'm not even going to credit that with a response, other than to say....."last gasp".

Brenda


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Aug 13, 2007, 9:53 PM
Post #329 of 1694 (3393 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi jack,

What happened to your last post?

Jerry Crazy


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 14, 2007, 3:06 PM
Post #330 of 1694 (3332 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Good point Brenda.

BTW: Does calling yourself the "widow of DB Cooper get you a better table at your favorite restaurant"?,

or does it simply get you seated next to the air marshall on your next plane trip?

Anyway, I have a limited education, but, as a bartender, I can tell the difference between a story, and the truth.

For example:

You stated that in the early 90's that you held an airline ticket in your hands, that was dated 11/24/71, and was from Sea-tac to Portland, and was Dan Cooper's.

So, how is it that you said in the hospital, you didnt' know the name Dan Cooper, when Duane said he was Cooper. Is this the truth?

If not, and you didn't know about Cooper, why in the world would you remember the date, airline, cities, and name on a ticket, that was in the tax files, of a man you weren't even married to at the time? Why would anyone care about a twenty year old plane ticket, and why would any memorize the name, cities, airline, and date?

It is because of this claim, that Himmelsbach became interested in your story.

Then, when the time came, the airline ticket mysteriously vanished. It doesn't add up.

You said Duane probably threw it away or buried it, but, why would he keep it for 20 years, and then get rid of it? Doesn't make sense to me.

Either you knew who Cooper was back in the early 90's, or the airline ticket never existed.

In addition, we are supposed to believe that Cooper planned everything to a "t", according to Mayfield's line, and then Cooper can't remember where he buried the money?

Doesn't make any sense. If Duane had buried the money in a bucket, and couldn't find it, then how in the world did he find 3 packets, and according to you, throw them into the Columbia river, in 1979.

FTR. The hydrologists who examined the site along the Columbia river where the 6k was found, said the money was in the sand for years, probably since the time of the heist, or soon thereafter.

If Duane had saved 6k of the bills, why didn't he simply keep one of the bills, put it in a safety deposit box, and tell you to sell the story when he dies? Or is this what is happening, minus a 20?

Also, you state Duane hurt his leg in the jump. Well, how did he get from southern Washington to California, with a severe leg injury? Who drove him, where did he stay? How is it you can place him in California in 1972?

What does Duane being in California in 1972, have to do with the hijacking in Portland in November of 1971.

Time to find proof, instead of stories.

Find the man who trained Duane to skydive, find "ONE" photo of Duane skydiving, or have Robert Knoss come out of hiding, and tell us how he knows Duane was trained as a skydiver in MN.

Heck, you found the "alledged" sunglasses, and briefcase, certainly, you can find a photo of the suit, or Duane diving, or part of Cooper's chute, the ransom note, etc.

Also, how is it, that not "ONE" person, no relatives, no ex-wives, no skydivers, nobody, called in Duane's name to the FBI as a suspect, from 1971-1996?

According to you, he was a trained skydiver, you think resembles the "ONE" sketch, and his criminal background, why didn't anyone call in his name? until you did in 1996, and the fbi blew you off, according to your own words.

I know you claimed to be married to Db Cooper, and most people disagree. Thing is, you have spoken to Cooper, you just didn't know it.

Also, isn't it true on the KOIN show, the men said that the stewardess was shown a photo of your husband, and the stewardess said that your husband was NOT DB Cooper. Is this true?


I was told to use my head, and this is what I came up with.

jacko


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Aug 14, 2007, 3:30 PM)


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 14, 2007, 3:10 PM
Post #331 of 1694 (3330 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hi jack,

What happened to your last post?

Jerry Crazy

It was being re-tooled.

jacko




bozo  (D 10154)

Aug 15, 2007, 8:59 AM
Post #333 of 1694 (3239 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Jack states: "I can tell the difference between a story, and the truth."

SmileJo Replies: I can tell a troll when I see one.



Heres the bottom line.
Jo, you are convinced , beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your lowlife, smalltime , lifetime criminal husband was/is DB Cooper. You will argue the point to the grave.
Although you can provide no connection with parachuting nor skydiving with him.
Everyone that disagrees with you is labeled a troll. Call me what you will...your former hubby was not Dan Cooper.


Orange1  (B 2638)

Aug 15, 2007, 12:34 PM
Post #334 of 1694 (3210 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jo, Bozo makes a very good point when he says...

In reply to:
Although you can provide no connection with parachuting nor skydiving with him.

In your very first post, you said:
Quote:
So far I have done everything for the FBI except put him in a parachute.

333 posts and nearly a year later, despite all the help you say you have got from the people here, that still hasn't been done.


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 15, 2007, 8:32 PM
Post #335 of 1694 (3148 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Jack states: "I can tell the difference between a story, and the truth."

SmileJo Replies: I can tell a troll when I see one.



Heres the bottom line.
Jo, you are convinced , beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your lowlife, smalltime , lifetime criminal husband was/is DB Cooper. You will argue the point to the grave.
Although you can provide no connection with parachuting nor skydiving with him.
Everyone that disagrees with you is labeled a troll. Call me what you will...your former hubby was not Dan Cooper.

Well said.

I have a very hard time believing why a person would memorize a 20 year old plane ticket.

Sky memorizes the date, airline, and destination. And, she also reads it aloud to her hubby. Yet, she never thought to look at the name on the ticket?

What was the purpose of even looking at the ticket to start with?

Would a 24 year old ticket even be legible due to the ink vaporizing due to age, heat, and light?

Sky, you act as if you had limited knowledge of Cooper when Duane confessed in 1995.

Yet,

You admit, that Duane pointed to an area in the forest, and said, that is "where DB Cooper came out of the forest".

You said, how do you know, and he said, "maybe I was on the ground".

Sound familiar?

So, in 1979, you were fully aware of Duane's "possible" connection to the Cooper case.

You knew about the case, admittedly, since it happened in 1971.

You admit Duane was having nightmares about leaving prints on the aftstairs.

You admit seeing a ticket stub dated 11/24/71, from Sea-tac to Portland, NW airlines, and didn't bother to check the name.

You remember Duane mentioning he had a limp from skydiving.

So, we are supose to believe that in 1995, you had no idea who Cooper is? Please?

Remember, you have a photographic mind.

Not to mention, that according to you, Duane looks just like the one sketch.

Regardless, I have a hard time believing Duane has ever been skydiving, even once, in his life.

IF you want to quash the critics, like me, all you have to do, is to get proof Duane was in Oregon on that day, Duane was a skydiver, or

GEt the stewardess to change her mind. You know, the one who said your husband was not Cooper. I know Duane is a chameleon. But, it's pretty hard to take duane's face, and hairline, and make it look like the sketch from Unsolved Mysteries, or to take a thin man, with a big nose, big ears, and small neck, and turn him into a compact, stocky, balding, middle aged man.

Call me what you will, a troll, a catcher (I thought that is a baseball term), or whatever,

Truth is, Duane is, in my opinion, just one of about 100 men, who confessed to being Cooper, on their deathbed, in order to gain attention, just one last time.

BTW: What do you want out of this?

Should we build a memorial of Duane in WAshington, next to the guys who died in Viet Nam?

Or change the name of the "cooper" vane to the Weber vane?



jacko




bozo  (D 10154)

Aug 16, 2007, 6:05 AM
Post #337 of 1694 (3106 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Jo Weber - aka Ms. Cooper



Well........the quote above is very telling and settles this.
Shes not looking for the truth....as Ive said before, she has her truth and no one here will change that.


cabbage  (C License)

Aug 16, 2007, 7:21 AM
Post #338 of 1694 (3093 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Jo Weber - aka Ms. Cooper



Well........the quote above is very telling and settles this.
Shes not looking for the truth....as Ive said before, she has her truth and no one here will change that.

Why so negative? Whether Webber was or wasn't Cooper doesn't matter to most of us but the thread did make interesting reading until recently the comments became destructive and argumentative.

You're comming across as a bully and spoiler for no apparent reason other than to piss on someone elses parade. Why? Educate me if this isn't the case.


(This post was edited by cabbage on Aug 16, 2007, 7:46 AM)


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Aug 16, 2007, 7:34 AM
Post #339 of 1694 (3090 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
Jo Weber - aka Ms. Cooper
Well........the quote above is very telling and settles this.
Shes not looking for the truth....as Ive said before, she has her truth and no one here will change that.

How do you know for absolute certainty that her Duane wasn't the hijacker. I would like to see proof that he wasn't, instead of reading repeated put-downs on Jo...

I am sure that if she was younger and in better health with more time on her hands, she would have better results with her research, and if the research gave her proof that Duane wasn't the hijacker, I think she would be okay with that. There's only so much you can do when you're pretty much limited to staying near home. That is the main reason she posted this thread to begin with.


NickDG  (D 8904)

Aug 16, 2007, 8:33 AM
Post #340 of 1694 (3075 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi Jo,

Please keep going. You've single-handedly created a new and "current" awareness of this case inside the jumping community. And more people than not are interested in this case, if not outright pulling for you and that's the audience you are writing for. So do what I mostly do – say your piece and move on to the next thing - without going tit for tat with those who can't, or won't, agreeably disagree.

And I think, like most cold cases, you could be just one good tip away from the answer. There's a very decent chance someone in this world knows something and doesn't realize it relates to this case.

The FBI has nothing on you, Jo. The more they actively peruse this case, the more it points to their failure to solve it. So I'm sure they'd rather it just go away. But most of us here don’t want you, or it, to go away at all . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Aug 16, 2007, 9:39 AM
Post #341 of 1694 (3065 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hi Jo,

Please keep going. You've single-handedly created a new and "current" awareness of this case inside the jumping community. And more people than not are interested in this case, if not outright pulling for you and that's the audience you are writing for. So do what I mostly do – say your piece and move on to the next thing - without going tit for tat with those who can't, or won't, agreeably disagree.

And I think, like most cold cases, you could be just one good tip away from the answer. There's a very decent chance someone in this world knows something and doesn't realize it relates to this case.

The FBI has nothing on you, Jo. The more they actively peruse this case, the more it points to their failure to solve it. So I'm sure they'd rather it just go away. But most of us here don’t want you, or it, to go away at all . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194

Well said !!!

Keep going Jo and just ignore the posts that try to slow you down!


airtwardo  (D License)

Aug 16, 2007, 12:26 PM
Post #342 of 1694 (3040 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hi Jo,

Please keep going. You've single-handedly created a new and "current" awareness of this case inside the jumping community. And more people than not are interested in this case, if not outright pulling for you and that's the audience you are writing for. So do what I mostly do – say your piece and move on to the next thing - without going tit for tat with those who can't, or won't, agreeably disagree.

In reply to:



Yup!


What he said! Cool


Greene  (D 5835)

Aug 16, 2007, 1:32 PM
Post #343 of 1694 (3026 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

The last five posts says it all.Smile

Jo, keep going!

I just cannot understand the mean spirited comments prior to the last five.

Skydivers are a very diverse bunch, and most of the time they are caring and understanding.

Why such hostility towards Jo?

So, you don't believe her. Easy enough, don't read this thread.

Lee


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 16, 2007, 3:11 PM
Post #344 of 1694 (3006 views)
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     Re: [Greene] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 
Regardless, of what you think, when the stewardess on the plane, states that Skyjack's husband is not Cooper, how is that cruel?

Whether you think her husband is Cooper or not, doesn't change the fact that the FBI closed the case on Duane, because there wasn't enough evidence to proceede. That was back in 1998.

On top of this, it someone stole 200,000 of your money, terrorized your wife, and made your spouse have nightmares the remainder of their lives, I think you would have a different take on this case.

Cooper caused a lot of damage that night, and to think he should be remembered as some type of icon, or folk hero, makes me ill.

Quite frankly, if I suspected one of my family members was Cooper, I would not try to advertise it, or prove it, but, avoid the embarassment of having such a crook in my family.

This isn't a tv show, or a movie, this is real life.

That night, caused emotional distress to the crew, and caused one member of the crew to leave the airline, and another, to go into hiding.

Cooper is a no good, callous, crook, who terrorized women, and should be remembered for what he is, a coward.

Sky came to our forum to share "her" story, and to find evidence to prove Duane is Cooper. Sky even noted she wanted the truth.

We have given the truth, about the case, and sometimes the truth is not what we want to hear.

I just don't see how it could get any clearer, that when one of the stewardesses says, hey, he isn't DB Cooper.

Sorry, but, according to the KOIN interview, that is exactly what happened.

At the same time, why isn't it a relief, that your husband is not responsible for terrorizing women, and stealing money? I would think, you would be proud of your husband, for turning his life around, and not reverting back to being a criminal again?


jacko


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Aug 16, 2007, 3:34 PM)


Greene  (D 5835)

Aug 16, 2007, 3:44 PM
Post #345 of 1694 (2999 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Why vilify this woman searching for answers? She is doing you no harm or anyone else.

She has never said she was proud of what he did and she has never said she
approved of what he did!

You are correct. DB Cooper was a crook. That does not make Jo Weber a crook. It makes her a lady searching for answers.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind with someone.

So are you saying the FBI is always correct and since the case is closed by the FBI, that is the end of that
because they said so?

NO ONE on DZ.com is trying to remember him as an icon or hero.

You joined DZ.Com to post to this thread only.

You seem to have a real anger problem with this discussion.

Are you even a skydiver or just a wave maker?

Like I said, if you don't like what she has to say, don't read this fourm.

You are correct this is not a tv show, or a movie, this
IS JO'S REAL LIFE. Not yours, and this is only a discussion fourm.

"Coward, crook, callous and terroized women" true.

That was DB Cooper, not Skyjack71.



Lee West


1969912

Aug 16, 2007, 3:58 PM
Post #346 of 1694 (2994 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
Sky came to our forum....

Many, many months before you did.


Quote:
We have given the truth.....

You?


Quote:
I just don't see how it could get any clearer, that when one of the stewardesses says, hey, he isn't DB Cooper.

That solves thatCrazy


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 16, 2007, 5:54 PM
Post #347 of 1694 (2965 views)
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     Re: [1969912] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

First of all, I never accused sky of being a crook.

According to sky, she never met Duane until the late 70's. I have no reason to doubt that story.

Yes, I'm a diver, not that it matters, or is a pre-requisite to view or add to this site. Sky isn't a diver.

I've been viewing this site for months, long before posting.

Been following the case, for years, and have a different perspective. Must say that I know every detail of the case.

FTR: This is a forum, on DB Cooper, and Sky is claiming is be the "widow of DB Cooper".

there are 1,000 other suspects, so, we have a right to question her claim.

We have every right to question her claim, and ask for proof. Plus, saying you are the "widow of DB Cooper", is in my book, a slap in the face, as if, it is some type of badge of honor.

BTW: yes, I am upset that a person could terrorize two women, ruin their enjoyment of being a stewardess, having one quit the airline, and the other go into hiding. That really gets me mad.

Not to mention the poor publicity for the sport. Many think that diver's are reckless, beer drinking, adrenaline junkies.

So, Cooper shouldn't be made into a folk hero.

FTR: Sky has been trying for years, to get someone to write the story of Duane, and hers, and get it published. And maybe, a movie.

So, this isn't just about the truth. It's about the almightly dollar, and fame.

BTW: anyone get a PM today?

jacko


awsee1  (Student)

Aug 16, 2007, 6:01 PM
Post #348 of 1694 (2963 views)
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     Re: [Greene] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Like I said, if you don't like what she has to say, don't read this fourm.

This is a public forum where people express their opinion and debate topics, and everyone should be free to do so.

I'd like to remind you(everyone) to take a look at the TITLE of this thread. Skyjack may have started it, but it's not about her, or Duane, it's about DB, and everyone should be free to contribute. If anyone is going to proffer what they believe is evidence or "proof" it is well within the realm of public discussion to challenge it.

With that said, I'd like to add two pennies of my own.

There is not one iota of evidence that Duane has ever been skydiving, let alone is a skydiving expert. He would need necessarily have been some degree of the latter to have a chance of planning and pulling off a crime like this.

To my knowledge Duane has never even attempted armed robbery. His MO was forgery and petty thievery.

Where is it that someone with his background wakes up one day and says, I'm going to hijack and airplane and jump out in the middle of the night, and not over my own state-difficult enough to believe- but in the Pacific Northwest, an area he is not the least bit familiar with?

Brenda


flybounce  (Student)

Aug 16, 2007, 6:26 PM
Post #349 of 1694 (2955 views)
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     Re: [1969912] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

hi. anonymous troll here.
for the record, i have been skydiving and it was enough of a kick to do it again and again. obviously i was never committed to the sport enough to stay with it. sorry.
i have read much of other parts of this site. this is the only one i have enough knowledge or interest in to comment on. sorry.
yes jo webber has been here longer. sorry.
the fact is, however, that she flings insults too.
if i put a picture of myself up as a little old widow lady, do i get more leeway and credibility with no verification?
i just want the truth. sorry.
in my opinion, there is lots of evidence that mayfield is cooper. sorry.
if my little old neighbor lady has a crappy voice and wants to go on american idol and i tell here to keep going, it might give me warm fuzzies, but i am not doing her any favors. sorry.

way back when, i said j.w. and me know some of the same people and run in some of the same circles. i figured out that it was ambiguous and could be mistaken for jack wilson. i meant jo weber. sorry.

nothing personal, jo. if you get joy and hope from this keep going. just show something compelling. before you attack me, i have read the whole thread. a good troll does that. sorry.

if you are looking for some sort of fullfillment from your husband having been known as the terrorist of flight 305, you will be dissapointed. i'm not trying to be cruel. i just go where the verifiable evidence leads. sorry.

good luck jo. but, everyone should be a bit nicer. sorry.

remember, attacking an idea or something offered as fact in a public forum in pursuit of the truth does not damage the dignity of the human person giving it. your ideas are the result of the soul, not the soul itself. sorry.




awsee1  (Student)

Aug 16, 2007, 9:50 PM
Post #351 of 1694 (3886 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
in my opinion, there is lots of evidence that mayfield is cooper. sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about, I'd have to agree. My Hubby just informed me today that there is another Mayfield segment up on youtube.

It sure seems like the two Oregonians have done their homework. The lead investigator Himmelsbak sure looks embarrassed about having passed Mayfield over.

I knew if someone really looked into this case and turned over every leaf that one day it would be solved.


Brenda


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 16, 2007, 11:06 PM
Post #352 of 1694 (3864 views)
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     Re: [awsee1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I always suspected it would be a local jumper.

I just can't imagine jumping over a foreign DZ.

especially at night, at 160 knots, and with the law chasing me.

Imagine landing in some power lines, or on a mountain, or trees.

I think the most important part of that piece, is that the investigators can place the guy in Oregon on that day, and that he was not checked out by the FBI, and was a diver, with a record.

and, here, I thought the FBI had checked everyone out, who was a diver.

Makes you wonder, what did the fBI do all those years?

Just think at how many divers were looked at by the feds, and here, they don't even look at this guy?

Does he look like the sketch of Cooper at all?

jacko


1969912

Aug 16, 2007, 11:14 PM
Post #353 of 1694 (3861 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Assuming you're talking about Mayfield, there is a pic on the following site, taken in '74.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper


awsee1  (Student)

Aug 17, 2007, 8:24 AM
Post #354 of 1694 (3809 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I think the most important part of that piece, is that the investigators can place the guy in Oregon on that day, and that he was not checked out by the FBI, and was a diver, with a record.

Why on earth would they not check out a guy like that? It doesn't make any sense to me. And why would the FA have to do a re-sketch years later on Unsolved Mysteries?

Brenda


airtwardo  (D License)

Aug 17, 2007, 11:45 AM
Post #355 of 1694 (3783 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Been following the case, for years, and have a different perspective. Must say that I know every detail of the case.

FTR: This is a forum, on DB Cooper, and Sky is claiming is be the "widow of DB Cooper".

there are 1,000 other suspects, so, we have a right to question her claim.

We have every right to question her claim, and ask for proof.


In reply to:

Okay....can we question YOUR claim? Angelic

Tell us EVERY DETAIL as you claim to know, and how YOU came upon this set of 'FACTS'. Wink

(You don't have a brain mounted micro chip & wear a foil hat I hope) Monkey



The right way to make your case there, Mr. Secret Squirrel, would be to say 'that' is not a true fact because...

&

...'this' is a true fact, and here is MY proof, ~you're not doing that.Crazy

If you only wanna sit back and take shots at an old woman seeking closure...and can't / don't back up the claims YOU make...then we got a pretty good idea where YOU'RE comin' from.


IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Aug 17, 2007, 1:09 PM
Post #356 of 1694 (3767 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Keep going lady and stand by your decison to "In my posts I will totally ignore certain other posts" Smile


airdvr  (D 10977)

Aug 18, 2007, 5:42 AM
Post #357 of 1694 (3718 views)
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     Re: [IanHarrop] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Interesting stuff here. Got me to wondering. Sky, what meds was Duane taking when he told you he was Dan Cooper?




awsee1  (Student)

Aug 19, 2007, 5:46 PM
Post #359 of 1694 (3611 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
CoolI have learn that there is some new interest in Cooper AKA Duane L. Weber AKA John C. Collins. As of 2003 when they collected the DNA the file on Duane had not been closed and is far from closed.

No M'am I don't think so. Please check the third paragraph after Duane's picture that starts with... "But the..."

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/DB_Cooper/10.html

Stating that you have "done everything but put Duane in a parachute" is like making a case for wine and stating that you have all the ingredients except grapes.

I have no problem with you researching Duane's past, but it's time to put Duane as Cooper to bed.

Brenda






1969912

Aug 20, 2007, 1:00 AM
Post #362 of 1694 (3561 views)
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     Re: [awsee1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
I have no problem with you researching Duane's past, but it's time to put Duane as Cooper to bed.


You seem to be implying that you will have a problem with her continued research if she ignores you request. If true, do you think she should care? Deal with it. Try meditation if necessary.


awsee1  (Student)

Aug 20, 2007, 5:18 AM
Post #363 of 1694 (3543 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

If the FBI wasn't interested in Duane as a suspect, why would they take his DNA? Let's just assume for argument that they did. DNA usually takes no longer than 6 weeks to process. That was 5 years ago. Where's the match and closure?

Brenda


1969912

Aug 20, 2007, 5:32 AM
Post #364 of 1694 (3542 views)
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     Re: [awsee1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
CoolI have learn that there is some new interest in Cooper AKA Duane L. Weber AKA John C. Collins. As of 2003 when they collected the DNA the file on Duane had not been closed and is far from closed.

No M'am I don't think so. Please check the third paragraph after Duane's picture that starts with... "But the..."

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/scams/DB_Cooper/10.html

Stating that you have "done everything but put Duane in a parachute" is like making a case for wine and stating that you have all the ingredients except grapes.

I have no problem with you researching Duane's past, but it's time to put Duane as Cooper to bed.

Brenda


What makes you think she cares whether or not you have a problem with what kind of research she's doing?




awsee1  (Student)

Aug 20, 2007, 7:05 PM
Post #366 of 1694 (3467 views)
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     Re: [1969912] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:

What makes you think she cares whether or not you have a problem with what kind of research she's doing?

Well 196....for starters she's sent me several PM's one of which she asked me, among other things, to write her personal memoirs, not that it's any of your business. I'm only mentioning this publicly because some people with shoe sizes larger than their IQ still have to flap their jaws to show their stupidity.

Does that answer your question?

Brenda


stratostar  (Student)

Aug 20, 2007, 7:51 PM
Post #367 of 1694 (3460 views)
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     Re: [awsee1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
I'm only mentioning this publicly because some people with shoe sizes larger than their IQ still have to flap their jaws to show their stupidity.

You must have really small shoes.

Quote:
Does that answer your question?

Nope most of us are still wondering why your beating up on a old lady and why you give a fuck. If Jo wants to go to her grave thinking she was married to COOPER what fucking business is it of yours in the first place? She has as much right to post here as you or anyone else!

Sound like you and your pal got an axe to grind, maybe your pissed off SHE didn't want to work with a rude asshat like person to write her personal memoirs. That how it reads on this end!

You seem to think you have all the answers too, unless you can prove Ted Mayfield did it, your not really any different then Jo.

You and your buddy both are just as whacked out as the rest of the nut cases who think that they have all the answers to this case.

Besides that everyone knows Carbone is the real D.B. Cooper!


(This post was edited by stratostar on Aug 20, 2007, 9:34 PM)


1969912

Aug 20, 2007, 8:50 PM
Post #368 of 1694 (3448 views)
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     Re: [awsee1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:

What makes you think she cares whether or not you have a problem with what kind of research she's doing?

Well 196....for starters she's sent me several PM's one of which she asked me, among other things, to write her personal memoirs, not that it's any of your business. I'm only mentioning this publicly because some people with shoe sizes larger than their IQ still have to flap their jaws to show their stupidity.

Does that answer your question?

Brenda


No, it doesn't.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Aug 20, 2007, 10:51 PM
Post #369 of 1694 (3434 views)
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     Re: [stratostar] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Let's keep it civil . . .

I don't care what you think of who, just . . . keep it civil.


(This post was edited by quade on Aug 20, 2007, 10:52 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

Aug 20, 2007, 11:01 PM
Post #370 of 1694 (3430 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

10-4


ridgerunrbunny

Aug 21, 2007, 9:30 AM
Post #371 of 1694 (3383 views)
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     Re: [azdiver] My take on this [In reply to]  

Well, , I don't have anything to prove, cause I really don't care who it was. Ken Lynn was my personal likely suspect, only because I dated him, knew he had at least 2 dozen aliias, was on the fbi most top ten wanted list, and was an experienced jumper.

You guys go ahead and figure it out, I'm sure one of you knows all about it..


airtwardo  (D License)

Aug 21, 2007, 9:36 AM
Post #372 of 1694 (3377 views)
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     Re: [ridgerunrbunny] My take on this [In reply to]  

only because I dated him, knew he had at least 2 dozen aliias, was on the fbi most top ten wanted list...

In reply to:

Nice guys ALWAYS get the cool chicks! Wink




SKYWHUFFO  (D License)

Aug 23, 2007, 9:00 AM
Post #374 of 1694 (3238 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jo,
is mayfield or Mccoy still alive?


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Aug 23, 2007, 10:32 AM
Post #375 of 1694 (3226 views)
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     Re: [SKYWHUFFO] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Ted Mayfield is still alive.

JerryBaumchen


flybounce  (Student)

Aug 23, 2007, 6:50 PM
Post #376 of 1694 (3827 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

wouldn't it be a better story if he wrapped a twenty around the bottle?

what was the money for?

4 years ago that i know of, you were trying to find an author that would write the duane as cooper book.

aw shucks.


flybounce  (Student)

Aug 23, 2007, 8:44 PM
Post #377 of 1694 (3804 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

by the way, it's interesting that all of a sudden, 5 people can pop up at once defending your lowly asserted, highly motivated story.

that's it. "here where i stand today, i am alittle old lady."

i'm sick. i'm widowed. i just want the truth and closure.

didn't help?

o.k. fine. maybe i need to p.m. a bunch of people and get their quick support. sounds like a p.r. campaign. i don't feel the need to do such things.

actually, i'm not even asserting my own facts. so if you want me to prove everything in triplicate, up yours. demand the same from both sides. i am only asserting my evaluation of a solid case against mayfield against popcorn and fluff from other suspects. popcorn and fluff is very unsatisfying. so is reading the emotional support and attacks for a crappy case. check out the youtube "the real db cooper". evaluate the contradictions and illogic from mayfield and himmelsbach. then talk intelligently about this. or...just call me a troll again. i promise to change my mind, sulk and go away forever.

(that last part was sarcasm)


cabbage  (C License)

Aug 24, 2007, 12:29 AM
Post #378 of 1694 (3780 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

flybounce,

So the last part was sarcasm? The first part was incomprehensible!

Be contented that you've proved a point. Maybe not the point you set out to prove but you've proved a point none the less.

Cabbage


whitneyrain

Aug 24, 2007, 8:37 PM
Post #379 of 1694 (3716 views)
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     Re: [awsee1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

They may have done some homework, but the description of Cooper is 6ft tall, brown eyes, and dark hair. Ted Mayfield is about 5ft 6in tall, blue eyes, and (before he went gray) light ginger hair. Hard to reconcile the two.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Aug 24, 2007, 8:43 PM
Post #380 of 1694 (3715 views)
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     Re: [whitneyrain] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I've been really trying to stay out of this thing.

As I've previously posted; I've known Ted Mayfield continuously since 1964 and he is NOT Cooper.

JerryBaumchen


grimmie  (D 18890)

Aug 24, 2007, 9:04 PM
Post #381 of 1694 (3707 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hmmm, Db Cooper suspects in my book...

Zing, Nah...to cool to pull off a heist, and he would have thrown the pilots out and flown wherever he wanted...

Larry Hill, Nah...to short.

Dave Mahoney...old enough..hmmm...

Bear...nah...too big.

Mr. D-1 himself...how did he get all of those scars?????? Plane crash, eh????

Scotty Carbone...nah..he could never sit in his seat QUIETLY with a bomb on his lap.(what's that, not old enough? HA! Sure he is!)

Bill Dause...hmmmm....nah..too short ...

I have never met this JerryBaumchen guy..he seems to know a lot about a lot from them days...hmmmm....

But after reading this entire thread I have it!
it was Colonel Mustard OR Professor Plum, with a candlestick, in the Billiard Room!!!!!

Wink

editor's note:No animals were harmed during this post....


awsee1  (Student)

Aug 24, 2007, 9:21 PM
Post #382 of 1694 (3705 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I've been really trying to stay out of this thing.

As I've previously posted; I've known Ted Mayfield continuously since 1964 and he is NOT Cooper.

JerryBaumchen

Fair enough J.B., respected member no doubt, but how can you be so sure? Profile? Inside information?

Just to give you an example, Skyjack71 told me in a PM that Ted "told her he wasn't Cooper" and she all but implied that that should be good enough for me.
Did he tell you the same thing?

Have you ever wondered if he's ever chopped down a cherry tree? What would he have told 'ol Pop?

Speak to me please.

Brenda...wife of an avid skydiver!


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 24, 2007, 11:56 PM
Post #383 of 1694 (3687 views)
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     Re: [whitneyrain] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
They may have done some homework, but the description of Cooper is 6ft tall, brown eyes, and dark hair. Ted Mayfield is about 5ft 6in tall, blue eyes, and (before he went gray) light ginger hair. Hard to reconcile the two.

Actually, the FBI description above is not accurate.

In addition, in Himmelback's book, he said, that estimates of height, weight, and age varied, depending on which witness.

On the FBI website, Cooper is described as:

5"10-6"
medium to well built
"possibly" brown eyes.


So, the brown eyes, was never a definite.

As a matter of fact, Cooper kept his sunglasses on the entire time he was on the airplane.

Just look up Tina Mucklow's quote's, and you will find it.

"he never took off his sunglasses", is the quote.

Normally, when bank robbers, hijackers, etc, wear a disguise, they normally keep the disguise on during the crime, otherwise, it isn't really a very effective disguise.

LIke I mentioned above, the height is 5;10-6"

Himmelback mentions in all articles, that he was looking for a "compact" man. The name, "compact" continually comes up in Himmelbacks book. By definition, "compact" means, to put a lot, in a small space.

According to KOIN, TEd is 5"8.

Put a man, dressed in all black, with a long black raincoat, with dress shoes, which almost all have heels, especially in the 70's, 2 inch difference in height is not that significant.

Plus, if you read the details.

Cooper entered the airliner, and immediately sat in the last row.

HE gave the note to the stewardess:

She went to the cockpit, and gave a height, weight, and age, estimate, based on a man who was sitting.

So, can you tell the height of people who are sitting?

Cooper sat the entire flight, which is extremely unusualy for hijackers.

He stayed in the back of the plane, and only left his seat, once the plane landed in Seattle, in order to glance out the windows.

So, we have a man, seated, in all black, on a airplane, with low ceilings, in a stressful situation, and the estimate is 2 inches off, so he should be eliminated?

So, those are the facts.

AS for the hair color.

IF you look at the photo's on the web, it appears his hair was already gray by 1971.

The witnesses, said Cooper's hair was "shiny", which made them think he was wearing a "wig", or dyed his hair.

Also, in Himmelback's book, estimates of age, height, and weight, varied by witness.

Someday, ask a police officer, or a FBI agent, just how dependable witnesses are when required to give a physical description of a perp. They will tell you, that people are horrible witnesses. Usually, the closer someone is to the age of the perp, the better the description is regarding age. It's also true, that men are better at guessing age, and height of men, and the reverse is true, for obvious reasons.

jacko


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 25, 2007, 1:14 AM
Post #384 of 1694 (3678 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I've been really trying to stay out of this thing.

As I've previously posted; I've known Ted Mayfield continuously since 1964 and he is NOT Cooper.

JerryBaumchen

Jerry

I respect your posts, but, I must ask.

Do you know the whereabouts of Ted while Cooper was on the plane?

If so, were you with Ted, and what were you doing?

IF you can vouch for Ted, we can move on, and go back to debating Duane.

Either that, or you know who Cooper is.

It must be one or the other, since, you stated you know Ted is not Cooper.

jacko




flybounce  (Student)

Aug 25, 2007, 10:59 AM
Post #386 of 1694 (3636 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

oh my!

first. more "facts"

what other site am i posting on? how do you know?

this other proof that you have now, source it - oh wait, you don't do that.

what interview? where.

i don't have a sight, so crash away. have you crashed competing sites before? or do you have someone else do it for you. i know your highest hopes are to beleive that your husband is the flight 305 terrorist for cash that he burried in a bucket and lost, but you should refrain from the threats of that which is illegal. you're beginning to shake my unwavering faith in you.

while you're getting nasty, you should remember some of the things you have said at local gatherings under your breath to good friends when you've tipped a bit to much spirits. never knew who dan cooper was before duane died. hah! you and duane both knew didn't you. whatever plans you two made will just be between you and me and the 6 or so people that we know that know.

you've had your fun. pee in my cornflakes and i can use the internet, too.

as too the brave supporter of this kind little old lady who happens to have other sympathy provoking maladies when needed, you said i was incomprehensible? when adressing you, i'll use monosyllabic word and no metaphor or similie. i'll also try to eat up more of my time separating my thoughts better so you can understand because i like you so much. i got nuthin' better to do with my time.


flybounce  (Student)

Aug 25, 2007, 11:07 AM
Post #387 of 1694 (3632 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

oh yeah, fogot. the fbi watches this sight. because descriptions are perfect, they're letting the unabomber out of jail along with about 20 bank robbers just this week.

they'll want more info about duane, too. you've all convinced 'em. ted's free and clear forever.


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 25, 2007, 7:29 PM
Post #388 of 1694 (3595 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

For those younger viewers, and older, who want more information about this crime, in order to make a more educated opinion regarding the claims on this site.

Below is a link, where Tina Mucklow, who sat next to Cooper, states, he never took off his sunglasses.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030808172520/http://www.dccomix.com/roadkilldiaries/dbcooper.htm

The following, is an article with Sky and some reporter. In this, Sky states she was told by Duane in 1979, that "is where Cooper came out of the forest", and "maybe, I was on the ground".

remember, Sky says he never heard of DB Cooper, until 1995. She barely knew the name, yet, her husband says that is where Cooper came out of the woods, and she doesn't ask him, who's Cooper, or anything.

Not to mention, Duane's "leg" injury, is not a leg injury, but, an arthritic knee, which is caused by wear and tear, not necessarily a skydiving accident.

I thought the story was a leg injury, not a chronic arthritic knee problem. Two seperate medical conditions.

http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/columnists/boule/00/0803_boule.frame

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

I do know this quote from Tina, is just that, a quote.

Who's more reliable, a witness who sat next to Cooper, and could visibly see if he was wearing sunglasses, or some sketch artist who wasn't even on the plane.

jacki

PS IF the links aren't working for the above articles, simply "copy" them, and paste them on the url line in another window.


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Aug 25, 2007, 7:34 PM)


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 25, 2007, 7:54 PM
Post #389 of 1694 (3588 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

BTW:

There are actually 4 different sketches of Cooper.

In 1988, Florence Schaffner, had the sketch re-drawn because she said it never looked like Cooper.

So, the main witness, said the sketches from 1971, never looked like Cooper.

Interesting, that there are more sketches than witnesses.

That is the problem with cases like this.

People try to become part of big cases, and exaggerate their recollections.

Only 3 people had a look at Cooper, and knew he was a hijacker.

The three flight attendants.

The passengers were unaware of the hijacking, and the crew never left the cockpit.

So, all three witnesses, the three stewardesses, were all under 25 at the time, and had little experience in the air.

The man sitting across from Cooper, a 20 year old male college student, never knew Cooper was jacking the plane.

He described Cooper as medium build, 160, and was wondering why he was wearing sunglasses on a rainy day.

Of course, he found out later.

jacko


flybounce  (Student)

Aug 25, 2007, 9:10 PM
Post #390 of 1694 (3578 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

great stuff, jacko. can i call you that?

i'll check the stuff out. i appreciate that you know your stuff and can back it up.

irrefutable facts, for some reason seem to carry more weight with me.

thanks again.




flybounce  (Student)

Aug 26, 2007, 12:54 PM
Post #392 of 1694 (3537 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

jack is a manipulator for his own purposes?

oh my!!!!!!

would jack have a million dollar story if he were right? no, you would if you were! but you're not right, you know it, i know it, duane knew it and so do others.

you expect us to beleive you didn't know about cooper? just a small paper? i guess people didn't have tv and radio news back then in Ga? duane would drop big clues about being the cash terrorist of flight 305 (that oops lost the money in a bucket) to let you in on it and then draw back when it could've gotten a little closer? every time there is a good challenge yo your "facts", you come up with more "facts" never before seen.

as for everything you said, CITE YOUR SOURCE, or it's just disjointed, illogical, unbeleivable crap like everything else you said on this whole site.

at least jack makes sense and cites his sources very well.

wow, you have tina's adress and have talked to her? first of all, with your credibility, i'll beleive it when i see a video of it. if it did happen, you must indeed be a super sleuth. i'm sure you found it on your own without someone contacting you with it.

by the way, jack didn't p.m. me to defend him. i'm just allergic to b.s. that publicly distorts history and combatting your crap about your and duane's plan is the prescription from my doctor.


(This post was edited by flybounce on Aug 26, 2007, 12:57 PM)


Orange1  (B 2638)

Aug 26, 2007, 12:58 PM
Post #393 of 1694 (3533 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I don't want to be part of all this finger pointing but to repeat an earlier question that went unanswered: Jo, in your first post you said you had done everything for the FBI but put Duane in a parachute. Have you yet managed to uncover any evidence that Duane knew how to skydive?


highspeeddirt

Aug 26, 2007, 7:47 PM
Post #394 of 1694 (3507 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

lets see...jackwilson 10 jumps in 2 years. boy i guess that makes you some sort of expert (at least in your own mind)


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Aug 26, 2007, 9:35 PM
Post #395 of 1694 (3490 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
As I've previously posted; I've known Ted Mayfield continuously since 1964 and he is NOT Cooper.

I should have said "IMO." Sorry

I cannot prove that something did not happen; i.e., Ted not doing it.

My opinion is based upon what I know about Cooper (very little but I did get about a 45 min interview by the FBI back then) and what I know about Ted
Quote:
I've known Ted Mayfield continuously since 1964

I will not partake further in this as I consider it worthless. Now if you are doing it for fun, Press On.

JerryBaumchen


awsee1  (Student)

Aug 27, 2007, 6:54 PM
Post #396 of 1694 (3417 views)
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     Re: [highspeeddirt] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
lets see...jackwilson 10 jumps in 2 years. boy i guess that makes you some sort of expert (at least in your own mind)

What kind of "expert" would the [null set] for jumps in [null set] years make you? How about in your own Walter Mitty mind?

Brenda






jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 28, 2007, 11:41 PM
Post #399 of 1694 (3290 views)
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     Re: [JerryBaumchen] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
As I've previously posted; I've known Ted Mayfield continuously since 1964 and he is NOT Cooper.

I should have said "IMO." Sorry

I cannot prove that something did not happen; i.e., Ted not doing it.

My opinion is based upon what I know about Cooper (very little but I did get about a 45 min interview by the FBI back then) and what I know about Ted
Quote:
I've known Ted Mayfield continuously since 1964

I will not partake further in this as I consider it worthless. Now if you are doing it for fun, Press On.

JerryBaumchen


Jerry:

thanks for the response.

I understand your frienship, and how you don't think your friend is capable, or fits the profile.

However, thanks for clearing up that it is your opinion, and that you were not with Ted while the hijacking was going on.

Without mentioning names, did you ever suspect anyone, and did you ever call in any names in hopes of getting the reward?

thanks

jacko


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 28, 2007, 11:47 PM
Post #400 of 1694 (3289 views)
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     Re: [highspeeddirt] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
lets see...jackwilson 10 jumps in 2 years. boy i guess that makes you some sort of expert (at least in your own mind)

Excuse me, but, I have never claimed to be an expert in skydiving.

10 jumps, in the scheme of things, is not a lot of jumps.

But, IMO, it is 10 more jumps than Duane Weber.

During my jumps, I have learned, that the Cooper jump, was not that difficult of a jump.

At the same time, I do realize, that this was probably not Cooper's first night jump.

Jumping at night, imo, makes the jump much more difficult.

than again, jumping in the day, would result in being caught not too long after landing.

So, I think cooper made the right choice.

After all, he is just chuckling somewhere, now isn't he.

FTR: I would have jumped after the first turn on V-23, and used the plane's turn, as a reference point.

So, anyone who says, that Cooper wouldn't know where he was, and couldn't land uninjured, is trying to make the jump more difficult than it is.

Who's to say, cooper didn't have someone on the ground, talking him down?

jacko


stratostar  (Student)

Aug 29, 2007, 7:01 AM
Post #401 of 1694 (4331 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Jack,

You don't know Jerry, and it seems you don't know anything about his history.

Quote:
Excuse me, but, I have never claimed to be an expert in skydiving.

10 jumps, in the scheme of things, is not a lot of jumps.

But, IMO, it is 10 more jumps than Duane Weber.

And you sound like one those types you meet at the local watering hole where some loud mouth drunk is telling all the "current real skydivers" all about skyJJJJJUmping and how you do it.

Yet everyone who is not a retard, in the bar knows the dude is full of shit and may have only seen it done once, or been dropped S/L in the 70's.

Quote:
During my jumps, I have learned, that the Cooper jump, was not that difficult of a jump.


Oh really, are you making this statement as an expert? So during your TEN jump experiance you have spent your time learning about round parachute types and their use, night jumps, winds aloft, navigation, night jumps, jet AC OPs, aft stairs, Night Jet Jumps (pre GPS) jumping with payloads, and an assortment of other special training and
knowledge it would take to pull off that jump, you claim "that the Cooper jump, was not that difficult of a jump.

That statement alone IMHO proves you don't even have a clue what the hell your talking about, or your just trolling for a good bite.


Quote:
After all, he is just chuckling somewhere, now isn't he.

I'm 100% sure he is laughing his ass off, and I bet he spilled his drink with the little umbrella in it, he's sip'n on poolside and reading your post on his laptop Jerry sent him for X-mas, I mean after all, when you got "bread to spread" you can get high speed wifi in that part of the world these days, dude!

Hay I gotta run and catch a plane now, got to go get my BOOGIE on.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Aug 29, 2007, 7:06 AM)


Orange1  (B 2638)

Aug 29, 2007, 1:20 PM
Post #402 of 1694 (4294 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Who's to say, cooper didn't have someone on the ground, talking him down?

well, i dunno about logistics of that back then but it did remind me of Jo saying
Quote:
The statement that Duane made in 1979 "That's where Cooper walked out of the woods" I replied "How would you know that" and he says "Maybe I was the one on the ground".

which always sounded a bit odd to me... but if Weber was the one on the ground and someone else actually jumped...? (Seeing as so far there does not seem to be a shred of evidence that Weber had ever jumped out a plane in his life) Though if 2 people split the money it make it even more strange that other than that in the river, none of the cash was ever found. Oh, I'm getting a bit lost in speculation here Tongue

But I do firmly believe that there is a poster in this thread (not Jo) who is a lot closer to this whole episode than most people think...


steve1  (D 23640)

Aug 30, 2007, 12:03 PM
Post #403 of 1694 (4224 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
[

After all, he is just chuckling somewhere, now isn't he.
..................................................................
I really think he is laying tangled in his chute at the bottom of the Columbia River. I haven't read all the posts to this, but didn't they find some money in that river? As far as anyone knows none of the rest of the money was found. Wasn't it marked money?
.......................................................................




So, anyone who says, that Cooper wouldn't know where he was, and couldn't land uninjured, is trying to make the jump more difficult than it is.

...............................................................

If he did jump into the Columbia Gorge (West of Portland), I can't think of a worse place to land at night. Really tall timber surrounding a river that is deep, swift, and wide. Very, very steep hillsides. I'd sure hate to make a night jump into a hell hole like that. I can't think of a worse D-Z to make a night jump into. So, if that was the place, I don't think he made it out unhurt and I really think he easily could have died in that water. I've jumped jets before and made a lot of night jumps under a t-10 and even 7-TU. But I'll tell you, that jump would have been extrememly dangerous and scary as hell. I doubt if anyone would purposely plan a jump into that place. Not even James Bond!Unsure...Steve1


flybounce  (Student)

Aug 30, 2007, 7:07 PM
Post #404 of 1694 (4193 views)
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     Re: [steve1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

wow!

i've been away too long.

sooo much.

i can think of some worse places, but evidence points to north battleground or farther north. the only explanation of the money where found of is a guy who made it (unless a steelhead swam it upstream and deposited one pack of three bundles. drainage basins being what they are.) could mayfeild plan and execute something like this?

no? not smart enough (financial genius with nothing but hobby jobs since being a 7 up driver{36 years ago}, worth less than $0 until moving to sheridan and putting up a building for cash and getting a twin engine beech?)? experience (over 6000 jumps - 1 he'll never admit to.)? reckless (only 2 convictions for others lives, 11 with no convictions)? wouldn't threaten people for just money (only one conviction)? no stealing (only 1 conviction)? you're right teddy's just a pipe dream. funny thing him lying to those investigators about it and him lookin a lot like the schaffner sketch. just coincidences.

as for the mean guys attacking the lack of skydiving experience, find some attacks with some legs, weber schill, them dogs don't hunt. btw, talked to a smoke jumper out of winthrop who at the time was the most experienced s.j. at the time. good man. said he wouldn't do it, but no prob. come to think of it, teddy contradicted what he said to fbi, he said no prob. does he have enough experience to comment on the jump?

on this jump, i think he knows more than any of us.

and jo? i didn't say a bar. you? two drinks and one bar ever? yeah right!

i gotta go talk to the ether er, Easter bunny now. by.


(This post was edited by flybounce on Aug 30, 2007, 7:11 PM)


jackwilson  (Student)

Aug 30, 2007, 9:03 PM
Post #405 of 1694 (4176 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Hey Steve;

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Sounds like you are quite an experienced diver.

If you do time the jump, ie, speed of plane, route, time elapsed from Seattle, etc, it appears that Cooper jumped about 30 miles north of the Columbia river, where the money was found in 1980. So, that is about 10 minutes difference in flying time.

Yes, the money was marked. That is, all the serial numbers were written down.

So, how did three packs get 30 miles further south of the dropzone, become buried, no sign of a chute, the other money, and most importantly, the three bundles were touching each other. It's almost impossible.

The FBI spent countless hours on where Cooper jumped.

They reviewed radar reports, timing, speed, etc, and the FBI, FAA, etc, all thought Cooper jumped around the Lewis River area, up by Lake Merwin.

Of course, it is all speculation, and based upon the change in trim of the plane, caused by Cooper leaving the steps, and the wind ripping through the airplane, and cockpit.

Another possibility, is that Cooper jumped later, or earlier, than projected.

Maybe, the plane turning, caused the steps to slam shut, versus Cooper leaving.

On one show, a man duplicated Cooper's jump, but, simply, fell backward, and in this method, it lessened the impact on the airstairs, since the weight of the jumper was slowly eliminated from the aftstairs, versus all at once.

Either way, the area around where the money was found, does have quite a bit of flatland around it. Swampland, as it is called. THe spot, is north of the Columbia, actually in WA, in an area where the Columbia meets the Willamette, on the north bank.

I google earthed it, and the there is ample flat land, just northeast of the banks of the Columbia. I think the address is 12200 NW Lower River RD. Vancouver, WA, if I remember right.

Who knows, did Cooper jump up at Lake Merwin, down by the Columbia, or further south, in the flatlands of the Willamette Valley, and some designated dropzones in the area.

For the record, the area where Cooper is thought to have jumped, had "two" designated dropzones, used by local jumpers. There was also an airplane "beacon" not far from the projected dz.

So, Cooper could have easily known where he was, in my opinion.

Of course, I not as qualified as other's, but, I have asked other's, as well as the experts on the KOIN report, who all 3 stated they believed that Cooper could have landed safely.

Thanks Steve, for sharing for skydiving expertise.

Since I heard about this case, I always thought, it was a local jumper, with at least 100 jumps, and probably a criminal record.

For the record, I do think it is possible Cooper had help on the ground, someone to pick him up, or communicate with him when to jump.

Then, again, on the KOIN report, both experts, said that Cooper could have easily "come" down within 5 miles of a pre-determined area.

One expert, had 8,000 jumps, and knew the terrain.

So, I leave the details, and likihood of a successful jump to him.

However, Steve, I do agree with your premise.

An inexperienced diver, imo, would be asking for trouble, jumping in that area, at night, etc.

Then again, an inexperienced diver, would have been found, laying in the forest, in a tree, dead, if he didn't have the expertise and experience.

To think, that a man could come up with an original idea like this, and be an amateur, is a stretch.

No, IMO, this was not Cooper's first night jump, and I'll bet that Cooper spent the previous week, memorizing the terrain, timing, dz's, backup dz's, probably in a rented plane, or on ground, while preparing for what could be the end of his life, or freedom, if caught.

BTW: While the money was marked, even the FBI admitted finding one of those twenties in circulation was a needle in a haystack, given only 10,000 were given to Cooper, versus billions in circulation.


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Aug 30, 2007, 9:16 PM)






steve1  (D 23640)

Aug 31, 2007, 9:39 AM
Post #408 of 1694 (4113 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

You are much better informed on this than I am. Thanks for the info. For some reason, I kept thinking he jumped just East of Portland, but like you say noone probably knows for sure where.

I wonder what the weather was like that night. Was there much of a moon and stars. That would have made spotting and the jump a lot easier. I should go back and read more of the earlier posts. Maybe this was already discussed....Steve1


Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Aug 31, 2007, 10:43 AM
Post #409 of 1694 (4101 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Question . . . something that I've always kind of wondered.

Is there any proof that D.B. Cooper actually jumped?

Everybody assumes he did because some money was found along the river, but nobody actually saw him jump. What if the jump was just misdirection? What if he tied one sack of money to a parachute, tossed it out the back the then simply hid somewhere in the plane, making his getaway later after it had landed?

By all accounts, it was a pretty shitty night and location to jump anyway.


(This post was edited by quade on Aug 31, 2007, 10:44 AM)


NickDG  (D 8904)

Aug 31, 2007, 11:43 AM
Post #410 of 1694 (4089 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I mentioned this one up-board but it ties into what you're saying. Some think there never was a D.B. Cooper. The belief is the flight crew, including the ticket agent, were all in on it. And it may explain why the surviving flight attendant doesn't want to talk about it . . .

That notwithstanding - I've seen many skydivers who couldn't find a well lighted DZ from the aircraft on night jumps even though they are right on top of it. And without good communication and a cooperating pilot I doubt Cooper had any idea where he was except in a general sense. It wasn't like he was telling the pilot, "five right," and "five left."

As for the weather, it's a moot point. If you understand micro meteorology you'll know the wind can be blowing like stink on one side of a ridge and be dead calm on the other. So we'll never know the actual conditions he landed in.

The rub in all this is if Cooper had been an experienced jumper I'm sure he would have brought a parachute on board with him. Instead he relied on whatever he was going to get. Would any of you do that? But he knew enough to ask for "sport" parachutes so this means he probably had at least a small amount of experience. Maybe he was one-hitch military jumper or a static line sport jumper who made it at least to freefall. I mean would someone who had never made a single parachute jump before even contemplate such a thing. Maybe, but not likely.

There was also one report I read that said the flight attendant looked through the curtains and she saw Cooper repacking one of the parachutes in the aisle. But I doubt she had ever seen a parachute actually packed before so that statement is kind of suspect.

NickD Smile
BASE 194




jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 1, 2007, 9:24 PM
Post #412 of 1694 (3992 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Steve:

Thanks for the response.

that is the thing about this case, there is just so much information out there, and it's hard to know what is true, and not true.

But, if you think about this logically, we know that Cooper and the pilot negotiated the route from Seattle to Reno.

Supposedly, the V-23 was the most used low altitude route from Seattle south, and I think Cooper knew it.

If you look at aeronautical charts, there are two turns, on V-23, before the plane reaches Portland.

The first turn, is about 50 miles north of Portland, near Toledo, and the second, is 20 or so miles north, at Battleground.

Why not use these turns, timing, etc, to know the general area of where you want to jump. ADd the knowledge of Lake Merwin, with it's lights at night, why couldn't Cooper know where he was?

Funny thing, that Cooper is thought to have jumped within a minute or two of Battleground. Did he use the plane's turns to determine his location?

Assuming the pilot stayed on course, and I think that is a safe assumption. I'll tell you why.

Commercial pilots, usually fly at much higher altitudes, as you are all much more educated about this, than I am.

But, for sake of argument. You are the pilot, have a guy with a bomb, and told to fly low, and below 10,000 feet, on a stormy night.

Aren't you going to stay on course?

Why would you risk straying, and possibly running into Mt St. Helens, Mt Hood, etc.?

Besides, based on my knowledge of navigation back then, commercial airlines had the ability to stay on course via instruments.

IN addition, the chase planes that followed the airliner, would have some knowledge of their whereabouts, when briefed.

NOt only that, but, the FBI spent a lot of time going over radar reports, to determine the general area of the jet.

The NW airlines expert, who spent a ton of time on this case, stated it was his belief that the airliner was on V-23 when Cooper jumped.

Exactly what spot on V-23 is unknown.

FTR: the FBI states the hijacked airliner was on v-23 as it went through Portland, and through the Willamette valley.

V-23 intersects with the Columbia river, about 2 miles west of the Portland Airport, or basically just east of I-5 and the Columbia river.

IMO, the reports of the plane being either west, or east, of the search area, are ways for people with agenda's, to gather strength for their theories.

In addition, the FBI had a helicopter follow the plane as it entered the Portland airspace, and they said the plane was basically on V-23, and went through Lake Oswego, and down the Willamette valley.

I could be wrong, but, if I had to guess, that plane was on v-23, as it went through Portland, and given the above, especially radar reports, I think it is a safe assumption.


Agree?


jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 1, 2007, 9:31 PM
Post #413 of 1694 (3989 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quade:

Pretty good thought.

My initial reaction to this case, was, hey, the guy just hid on the plane, and escaped when it returned to Seattle for repairs.

When the plane landed in Reno, the FBI brought in dogs, and supposedly tore apart the plane.

Supposedly, the FBI took apart panels, etc, looked in the cargo, and through the suitcases which remained there.

While I agree it could have happened, it would have been a major boo-boo by the FBI.

As for whether Cooper could have escaped as the plane was coming to a stop in Reno. According to the tape on youtube, the FBI said they had the plane surrounded, and they say it was impossible.

I agree, that such a scenario could have happened.

You are correct, there are no witnesses to the jump.

However, the severe change in the "rate of flow" in the cockpit, which resulted from the airstairs violently hitting the fuelsage, convinced the FEds that Cooper had jumped at 8:13pm

Supposedly, this was duplicated in an experiment, and it is normally caused by someone exiting the aftstairs.

But, I do think it is possible.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Sep 1, 2007, 9:39 PM
Post #414 of 1694 (3985 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Pretty bad theory.

Like bad fiction, it was a dark and stormy night.

I don't know if you've ever been in a plane at night in stormy weather, but I can not in my wildest imagination believe he any a clue as to where he was without looking at the instrumentation and there is absloutely no indication that he possessed the knowledge or skill to do that nor any indication he was in the cockpit for any extended period of time.

Further, being in a plane is not like being in a car. There are no g-force side loads to clue you in. A two minute turn rate is almost imperceptable without looking outside the aircraft and even then only if you're out of the clouds.

In fact, skillfully done, it's possible to put an airplane completely upside down without any appreciable loads over 1g. Unskillfully flown VRF continued into IFR has had pilots exiting clouds upside down on numerous occasions -- usually with fatal results.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that sort of plan would work, but I do believe some people are naive enough to believe it would if they didn't have any IFR flying experience.


(This post was edited by quade on Sep 1, 2007, 9:44 PM)


jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 1, 2007, 10:02 PM
Post #415 of 1694 (3974 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:


As for the weather, it's a moot point. If you understand micro meteorology you'll know the wind can be blowing like stink on one side of a ridge and be dead calm on the other. So we'll never know the actual conditions he landed in.

The rub in all this is if Cooper had been an experienced jumper I'm sure he would have brought a parachute on board with him. Instead he relied on whatever he was going to get. Would any of you do that?

NickD Smile



Nick,

Thanks for the great information related to the wind.

I agree, we don't know the conditions, because none of us were on that plane.

Heck, even the local experts say Cooper got away. The only people saying Cooper died, is the FBI, to save face. The FBI just didn't want people duplicating the crime, or admitting Cooper got away, so,they started the stories about the wind, rain, etc.

As for Cooper bringing his own chute.

Who's to say he didn't?

Cooper was the last to board, from the aftstairs, and nobody paid him any attention, until he handed the ransom note to the stewardess.

So, why couldn't he have made his own chute, and stashed it in the overhead bin.

For those who say it's impossible.

Just two weeks earlier, a man whose idea Cooper copied, did just that.

He carried his own chute on board, but, was overpowered by the crew.

Let's assume Cooper didn't bring his own chute.

Well, if you are aware of the riggers in Seattle, where's the risk.

In other words, if he was a local jumper, and had used the riggers, he would have known the names when he examined the USPA card.

That is why Cooper demanded two sets of chutes.

IMO, he opened one back chute, to make sure it would open, and examined the shrouds, canopy, etc.

IF one chute opens, and is good, wouldn't one assume the other chute is good?

AS for repacking the chute.

I dont' think that happened.

I think the Stewardess is talking about Cooper examining the chute, and cutting the shrouds to wrap the money into a bundle, so, it wouldn't fall apart during the descent.

As for the stewardesses being in on it, or there wasn't a Cooper:

At least four witnesses, all three stewardesses, the kid across from Cooper, and witnesses on the plane, said there was a middle aged man in the back of the plane. In addition, the manifest confirmed there was a 36th passenger.

However, I agree that scenario should have been considered.

To my limited knowledge, all three flight attendants are still alive.

The flight attendants assisted the FBI, after the crime. But, went into hiding when the FBI didn't catch Cooper, and the country thought it was "cute" that a "terrorist" could hijack a jet, and steal 200k.

Nobody in the US, thought of the flight attendants, and how something like this will affect your enjoyment of working in the airline industry.

Also, don't forget.

Cooper spoke to the captain, via the interphone.

Since all of the flight attendants were female, this would have been difficult for them to pull off.

YOu made some excellent points, and thanks for sharing your skydiving expertise.

However, I think it is unlikely the three stewardesses were all in on this.

When crimes happen, sometimes the nightmares, the anxiety, etc, is delayed. I think the stewardesses realised the FBI was not doing a very good job trying to solve this case, and said, enough is enough.

One huge thing I will agree with you, is that this case is a "semi-inside job".

good thought.s






jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 1, 2007, 10:41 PM
Post #418 of 1694 (3965 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Pretty bad theory.

Like bad fiction, it was a dark and stormy night.

I don't know if you've ever been in a plane at night in stormy weather, but I can not in my wildest imagination believe he any a clue as to where he was without looking at the instrumentation and there is absloutely no indication that he possessed the knowledge or skill to do that nor any indication he was in the cockpit for any extended period of time.

Further, being in a plane is not like being in a car. There are no g-force side loads to clue you in. A two minute turn rate is almost imperceptable without looking outside the aircraft and even then only if you're out of the clouds.

In fact, skillfully done, it's possible to put an airplane completely upside down without any appreciable loads over 1g. Unskillfully flown VRF continued into IFR has had pilots exiting clouds upside down on numerous occasions -- usually with fatal results.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that sort of plan would work, but I do believe some people are naive enough to believe it would if they didn't have any IFR flying experience.


Well, thanks what makes the case so interesting.

Everyone has a different take.

BTW: According to all reports, Cooper was "never" in the cockpit of the hijacked jet that night.

Yes, I've heard it is possible to turn, without any force noticeable on the body.

However, even if the turn was perfect, Cooper could have simply used a compass, navigational aid, or other device to know his location, direction, etc.

Timing the route, since Cooper gave the route, altitude, airspeed, etc. would give you a 5 mile radius of your location, per the KOIN report, and a local skydiving expert.

Who's to say he didnt' have someone on the ground talking him down?

Cooper had some knowledge of skydiving, and flight.

He knew about sport chutes, altitude, knots, airstairs, interphone, D-rings.

He also set the speed, and route, and told the crew what altitude to use, and the "flap" setting.

Plus, he came up with an original plan.

Not only that, but, after the Cooper jump, people with little to no experience, duplicated his jump, without a problem.

One guy, with no experience, jumped at 300 knots, and survived.

So, it has been proven, that the jump was not impossible.

Easy, no. Impossible, no. Difficult, yes.

But, for 200k, I know a lot of people who would take the challenge.

I'm familar with how pilots can become disoriented, like JFK, and fly into the water, etc.

But, in the Cooper case, he had professional pilots, flying a 727.

Experts, from the area, said the jump could have been made. They said, all you need to do is time the route, and know within a 5 mile radius of your jumpsite. And this is if from a top five jumper in the US.

IMO, if Cooper splattered, he would have been found within a week.

Still, 35 years later, no Cooper, nothing.

NO chutes, no body, no billfold, no harness, no briefcase.

Oh, but, they did find a one foot square "placard" from the back of the jet, in 1979.

So, if the jump was so difficult, why didn't the FBi find a body?

why did other's pull off the same crime, and make it safely to the ground?

Like Nick said, none of us was on that jet, and NONE of us knows the weather that night, the visibility, etc.

To say, it was a stormy night, is redundant for Oregon.

Heck, we don't even know for sure where Cooper jumped, or if he jumped.

I watched the KOIN report again, and the searchers, who were looking for Cooper, the two local skydiving instructors, both said, the jump could have been done.

The one guy, even said, Cooper had everything planned to a "t".

to think, that Cooper didn't have some way of knowing where he wanted to jump is hard to believe.

IT's funny, but, when the jet was circling Seattle, Cooper recognized Tacoma from 6,000 feet.

Obviously, the weather wasn't that bad, if he was able to see the ground at 6,000 feet.


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Sep 1, 2007, 10:59 PM)


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Sep 1, 2007, 11:24 PM
Post #419 of 1694 (3956 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
However, even if the turn was perfect, Cooper could have simply used a compass, navigational aid, or other device to know his location, direction, etc.

Timing the route, since Cooper gave the route, altitude, airspeed, etc. would give you a 5 mile radius of your location, per the KOIN report, and a local skydiving expert.

Sorry to tell you this, but that is simply so far out of the realm of possibilty it's not even worth considering -- ever.

I seriously doubt the reporter in the KOIN story nor the skydiving "expert" has the knowledge to make the determination that a jump such as that could be accurate within 5 miles. Reporters generally aren't both pilots AND skydivers. Skydiving experts are usually experts in skydiving, but almost never have the type of training required to make IFR navigation judgements like the one being claimed.

Let me assure you that I -do-.

There would be absolutely no way in that day to have any sort of navaid that would have allowed for it; portable GPS did not exist nor did even vaguely accurate portable VOR receivers. There would be absolutely no way to ded-reckon the information either; there are simply too many variables. He would not know at what points ATC turned the plane during departure. He would not have any idea what the actual winds aloft were.

I'm telling you right now that if an exit happened, it was based on a LOT of guess work, but in no way, shape or form was it an accurate spot. In this case, a circle of uncertainty of 5 miles would be an amazing achievment.


(This post was edited by quade on Sep 1, 2007, 11:41 PM)


jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 1, 2007, 11:34 PM
Post #420 of 1694 (3950 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Wilson, I finally have to say something. Unimpressed You keep posting information you know is NOT TRUE. You are making information up. For instance that Cooper was the LAST person to board - are you trying to rewrite history or just muddy the water so that no one actually knows the real facts regarding the crime as it was reported to the FBI.

You run around with your INFORMATION like a chicken with its head cut off. Ever seen a chicken run with its head off? He goes around in circles and gets nowhere- after all he has no head.



Sky:

Sorry, I should have asked you before I posted. My bad.

Do me a favor.

Read Richard Tosaw's book, DB Cooper, Dead or Alive.

On page 2 of his book, he states, that Cooper was the last to board at Portland.

Now, I know it is only a book. A, book, well researched, and a man who spoke to all six members of the flight crew, Soderlind, Himmelback, Cossey, and other's.

So, be careful, when you are accusing people of not telling the truth.

We can agree, or disagree, on who is Cooper, whether a bank can be felt by passengers, etc., but, I won't tolerate you accusing me of lying about the facts of the case.

IF you have facts, written, that show this is incorrect, share it with all of us, and we can determine which source is most likely right, or simply say we don't know.

But, simply because I have asked for you, and so have others, to put Duane in Portland, or in a skydiving harness, don't make accusations that aren't true.

So, what is your source, that Cooper was not the last person to board in Portland.

FTR: ONly a handful of people boarded in Portland, since it is only a half hour flight to Seattle.

And, the passengers did use the aftstairs to board, according to Tosaw.

I don't agree with Tosaw's Big Splatt theory, but, the man does know how to research a case.

BTW: Since all the other's are in agreement, that the Cooper jump was a difficult one, just how did Duane get the expertise to pull this off.

Most here, say, they wouldn't try it. Yet, we have a novice, from Atlanta, blow into town, without knowledge of the terrain, flight patterns, etc. and pull off the perfect crime.

OH, and then, bury the money in a bucket, and forget where he buried the bucket.

So, where, exactly, did duane get the bucket. Cooper was not given a bucket, so, Duane would have had to go home, or have an accomplice with a bucket, in which to bury the money.

Then, we are suppose to believe, that Duane returns to the area 8 years later, throws 3 packets into the water, they land on a beach, and are still touching each other?

OK. Now, I get it.


jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 2, 2007, 12:19 AM
Post #421 of 1694 (3941 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
However, even if the turn was perfect, Cooper could have simply used a compass, navigational aid, or other device to know his location, direction, etc.

Timing the route, since Cooper gave the route, altitude, airspeed, etc. would give you a 5 mile radius of your location, per the KOIN report, and a local skydiving expert.

Sorry to tell you this, but that is simply so far out of the realm of possibilty it's not even worth considering -- ever.

I seriously doubt the reporter in the KOIN story nor the skydiving "expert" has the knowledge to make the determination that a jump such as that could be accurate within 5 miles. Reporters generally aren't both pilots AND skydivers. Skydiving experts are usually experts in skydiving, but almost never have the type of training required to make IFR navigation judgements like the one being claimed.

Let me assure you that I -do-.

There would be absolutely no way in that day to have any sort of navaid that would have allowed for it; portable GPS did not exist nor did even vaguely accurate portable VOR receivers. There would be absolutely no way to ded-reckon the information either; there are simply too many variables. He would not know at what points ATC turned the plane during departure. He would not have any idea what the actual winds aloft were.

I'm telling you right now that if an exit happened, it was based on a LOT of guess work, but in no way, shape or form was it an accurate spot. In this case, a circle of uncertainty of 5 miles would be an amazing achievment.


I agree. It would have been an educated guess.

However, if your life was on line, your freedom, wouldn't put a lot of homework into this jump, and practice the route, via the use of a Cessna?

FTR: the skydiving expert, in the piece, is like you, also a pilot.

He is a former Accuracy champion, and private pilot since he was a teenager, according to reports.

It has been mentioned, about using a portable VOR device.

Regardless, of what method was being used, I agree it wouldn't be as accurate as GPS, we all do.

However, I think we are all making one huge assumption.

We are all assuming, that from the stairs of a 727, that Cooper had absolutely no vision from 10,000 feet that night.

I wasn't there, but, other's have suggested, there would be breaks in the clouds, the ability to see the Lake Merwin Dam.

How do we know Cooper didn't have an "A", "B", "C", dropzone?. So, if one zone was clouded in, or the pilot was out course, he waited for the next dropzone.

I agree that dead reckoning, is not an exact science.

But, it does put you in the ballpark. Agree?

After all, Cooper did give the pilot the speed, route, etc.

OF course, the pilot had to slow down, to assist with lowering the aftstairs. this would have screwed up the dead reckoning calculations, given the change in speed.

AS I'm sure most here are aware, back in WWII, paratroopers had the same problem. Finding dropzones on cloudy nights.

The US developed the "pathfinders". They would go into enemy territory early, set up transmittors on tri-pods, and the radar on the approaching planes would find the signal, and know when to drop the paratroopers.

Well, we all know the horror stories about WWII paratroopers being dropped 10-20 miles from their targets, etc.

However, that was 30 years before Cooper, and technolgy did change over the years.

One example. In the one book, it is mentioned a small plane was circling under the general area of where Cooper to thought to have jumped, at the time of the jump.

Well, that brings up two points.

First, if the weather was so bad, why is a small aircraft flying in such bad weather?

In addition, even Himmelback, alledges, that maybe the pilot of the small plane, was signaling to Cooper when to jump, or was waiting to get Cooper out of the dropzone after he landed.

Regardless, IMO, Cooper talking on a portable CB radio, to an accomplice on the ground, is not only possible, but likely.

The accomplice, could listen for the jet, or possibly be relaying ATC to Cooper.

My point, about the turns, the timing, etc, are simple, there are ways to get into the ball park, of where to jump.

On top of this, in WWII, the Japanese, used radio directional finders to find Pearl Harbor and bomb our bases.

How do we know there weren't antennas, or other radio transmissions, on the mountains in the area where cooper jumped?

Plus, like I mentioned, there were "beacons" for aircraft, just north of where Cooper jumped. Aren't beacons designed for airplanes to see in weather, to stay away from potential hazards?

Even the FBI agent in charge of the Portland office, when scouring the area where Cooper was thought to jump, was quoted as saying there were plenty of safe places to land, and we have to assume he made it safely to the ground.

A question: IF Cooper was a local pilot, and skydiver, who grew up in the area, and knew the terrain, would that change your opinion?

Skydiving question: IF Cooper pulled at 5,000 feet, and was an expert skydiver, how far could he steer, and make it to a pre-determined spot?

5 miles, 10 Miles?

Regardless, If Cooper had an accomplice on the ground, and simply waited for a moment, where he was fairly certain of the terrain, and jumped, and let his accomplice know of his whereabouts, to be picked up, I just don't see how this is out of the question.

We're talking about professional skydivers here, not amatuers.

There is a man in Utah, who did the same exact thing I suggested earlier. HE gave the pilot the speed, route, etc, and used the turn of the plane, to determine his jump. He landed safely, hid the money, hitched a ride into town, and returned the next day to pick up the loot. Did Cooper do the same?


Scotty11

Sep 2, 2007, 12:55 AM
Post #422 of 1694 (3938 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 
Richard Tosaw"s book does indeed state that Cooper was the last one to board, but it is not a fact. As with all books literary liberties are taken.
Himmelsback's book has errors also.

Having followed this thread and many other, Mrs. Weber does state her case very well. She has not been able to put him in Portland on that day, but his connections to the area and knowledge of the area are firm.

Mr. Tosaw is a egotistical individual who is unrelentless in his belief that Cooper Splattered. He is also a very difficult individual - his money could well be spent to finance realistic investigations rather than hiring divers to explore the Columbia.

As for Mrs. Weber, she is simply trying to find the evidence that will put her husband in Portland and in a parachute. She does seem to have everything else in order. I believe she is posting here to find that needle in the haystack.

I would hesitate to believe that Duane Weber was a novice and Mrs. Weber has established his knowledge of the area and terrain and flight patterns...ex-cons spent much of their time planning the "Big One". Perhaps he did do it.

You are being fecitious regarding the bucket as he did refer to a bucket in the hospital with a witness present - the witness was interviewed and her statement was taken. Five gallon paint buckets would have been readily available on the ground in a barn or shed near his landing site.

She was firm in her belief that he threw something into the Columbia behind a hotel below the bridge as he went to the river while she was taking care of something else. The recovered bills need to be analyzed with modern day technology...this could prove or disprove her theory.

Her story is a very compelling one. It does give one reason to ponder the validity and want to know more.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Sep 2, 2007, 1:29 AM
Post #423 of 1694 (3929 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Quote:
I agree that dead reckoning, is not an exact science.

But, it does put you in the ballpark. Agree?

No. I've already and repeated stated as much. He simply didn't have access to any information that would tell him if his orders were being carried out nor would he have any way of knowing any one of several other variables involved.

He -may- have been able to guess what state he was in, but I think that's about it.

Quote:
After all, Cooper did give the pilot the speed, route, etc.

According to this article, the pilot was flying at least a bit faster than Cooper had told him to. It is HIGHLY doubtful that he'd be able to tell the difference from 10,000ft even if it was daylight and he was able to see the ground.

Am I safe to assume you've never spotted a jumprun from a tailgate aircraft? Am I further safe to assume you don't have any idea how to calculate a jumprun based on winds aloft?

Quote:
Skydiving question: IF Cooper pulled at 5,000 feet, and was an expert skydiver, how far could he steer, and make it to a pre-determined spot?

Not far. With the parachutes in question, he was basically along for the ride of where ever the wind decided to blow him. The forward speed would be in the neighborhood of, I think, 2 mph which is actually pretty much the same as nothing in this case.

Forget any notion of him finding a target while in flight, timing the jumprun, bailing and then landing at that target or even anywhere near it. This could almost certainly have never happened.

Could -A- jump take place? Certainly. THAT part is trivial. Leave the aircraft and hope for the best.

Could an ACCURATE jump take place to a predetermined landing area? No flippin' way. Not even close. Almost certainly not even within a theoretical 5 mile radius based on any form of navigation available to him or a ground spotter or whatever else you'd like to fantasize about.


(This post was edited by quade on Sep 2, 2007, 1:49 AM)


Orange1  (B 2638)

Sep 2, 2007, 7:41 AM
Post #424 of 1694 (3909 views)
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     Re: [Scotty11] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
As for Mrs. Weber, she is simply trying to find the evidence that will put her husband in Portland and in a parachute. She does seem to have everything else in order.

Having everything else "in order" is pretty useless without these 2 things. I will be much more inclined to take her version of it when we have proof that Weber had skydiving experience - we haven't seen proof of even a single jump yet. She's been posting here close to a year and we still have not been presented with anything at all that puts Weber in a parachute. Unless, again, it was someone else in a parachute and Weber was the "man on the ground"...(but then of course he is not actually DB Cooper, "just" his helper). I'm inclined to think there is another poster here to whom the truth is just as important as it is to Jo, and that person clearly does not think it was Weber - but far from being a "nuisance" to Jo I believe that person is really looking for the truth, just unwilling to explain why (and so has less sympathy from everyone else?).


Scotty11

Sep 2, 2007, 7:04 PM
Post #425 of 1694 (3867 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 

In reply to:
Having everything else "in order" is pretty useless without these 2 things. I will be much more inclined to take her version of it when we have proof that Weber had skydiving experience - we haven't seen proof of even a single jump yet.

Note the very first post by Mrs. Weber which clearly states the intent of this thread. She is seeking the assistance of the industry to acquire that information.




steve1  (D 23640)

Sep 4, 2007, 7:23 AM
Post #427 of 1694 (4369 views)
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     Re: [quade] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

[reply



Forget any notion of him finding a target while in flight, timing the jumprun, bailing and then landing at that target or even anywhere near it. This could almost certainly have never happened.

Could -A- jump take place? Certainly. THAT part is trivial. Leave the aircraft and hope for the best.

Could an ACCURATE jump take place to a predetermined landing area? No flippin' way. Not even close. Almost certainly not even within a theoretical 5 mile radius based on any form of navigation available to him or a ground spotter or whatever else you'd like to fantasize about.[/reply
................................................................

I agree with this. (With a round chute, at night, and then spotting from the rear of a jet where you can't see what's coming, and then not knowing exactly where you were at to start with), I think it would be all but impossible to land at a predetermined point. I think he jumped, hoping for the best, and then landed in the river....Steve1


Orange1  (B 2638)

Sep 4, 2007, 1:06 PM
Post #428 of 1694 (4332 views)
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     Re: [Scotty11] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:

In reply to:
Having everything else "in order" is pretty useless without these 2 things. I will be much more inclined to take her version of it when we have proof that Weber had skydiving experience - we haven't seen proof of even a single jump yet.

Note the very first post by Mrs. Weber which clearly states the intent of this thread. She is seeking the assistance of the industry to acquire that information.

...yes, that was the point of an earlier post i made, not long ago, quoting her first post wrt that point and asking that question. that post was ignored. so bottom line is over 420 posts of other stuff and despite all the 'help' that crucial piece of evidence is still missing.

and i can't help noticing how someone who joins dz.com and only makes a couple of posts in this forum gets slammed IF they are 'anti' the duane theory but someone like scotty11 who does the same thing but 'pro' duane doesn't get the same treatment...


flybounce  (Student)

Sep 4, 2007, 4:46 PM
Post #429 of 1694 (4305 views)
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     Re: [Orange1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

i'll go one step further. scotty 11 is in my opinion weber, or someone she hired with cookies or sympathy.

jo, i'm not that easy to draw out. not to you. i don't want to get someone else in trouble for just this. thanks for the compliment by the way. if i could, i would gladly take credit for being one of the two guys that solved the case. whats so bad about accusing a callous criminal of something he probabaly did. you're trying your damndest to accuse your poor hubby of being the cash terrorist of flight 305. one that could find his way down and then not find the bucket. so a dumb terrorist? at least he had the genious to make the money land together, bury together, and degrade at an amazing rate. poor man, well, okay, he deserves your accusations. this plan for money for you was mostly his. good luck getting to WA. the neighborhood can breathe a sigh for a week anyway. nice thing though, your insults let me know you still care. good luck on your millions. call me an idiot in your book. can't wait for the exciting next episode in the next 12 monthe. i'll stay tuned. i'm sure it'll be exciting fluff, er, stuff

as for the jump being impossible to ballpark? mr. mayfield disagrees with you. wholeheartedly. he has a lot of experience, too. blanket statements to support your theory are still an opinion. there were a room full of rocket scientists a few years ago that said a piece of foam couldn't bring down a shuttle. those were very well educated, very knowledgeable opinions. some from designers of parts of the craft. they were still, i believe without malice, wrong.

as for the jump itself? $200,000 would be worth what, $1mill. today? heck, give me the same conditions today and set it up, i'll plan it and walk away with $100,000 in today's money. any takers? go together on it? jo? you could get rid of me. heck, you all say you won't have to pay up anyway?


flybounce  (Student)

Sep 4, 2007, 5:02 PM
Post #430 of 1694 (4300 views)
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     Re: [Scotty11] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

jo, er, scotty11, you used the word fecitious. no one around here will let you use it in scrabble. did you mean facetious?

anyway, welcome new personWinkSly

to get you up to speed, i think i know a lot and probably do. jack is the only one that i would say definitely does and backs his stuff up.

anyway, were supposed to argue in circles and forget facts. have fun.

oh, fyi, the ones who disagree with skyterrorist that lost money in bucket , er , skyjack are free to be openly ridiculed and deserve no sympathy. bash away.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Sep 4, 2007, 11:06 PM
Post #431 of 1694 (4264 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
as for the jump being impossible to ballpark? mr. mayfield disagrees with you. wholeheartedly. he has a lot of experience, too.

If you know him so well and how to contact him, perhaps you can arrange for him to make a couple of posts. I'd love to hear how he believes it could be done.




flybounce  (Student)

Sep 5, 2007, 10:10 AM
Post #433 of 1694 (4197 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

ted's not hard to find. phonebook. sheridan, or. jo also knows how to contact. or, just look at what he has already said on camera.

compare the contradictions from all sources from teddy's own testimony. also, what he says that the fbi contradicts.

jo? troll here and non-genuine person. i have never shopped a book deal like you have. i've never been nto those other sites, but nice try. your story is pure crap surrounded by fluff.

by the way, great planning to take a pic of duane in the db cooper sunglasses from the sketch. i see that on your little thumbnails on the left of your posts. how lucky to have planned that snapshot in advance. now i am being facetious.

if you call me troll can i call you hag? can i call you a fake person? would this name calling end if i let you know my identity? would you walk down the street and have coffe with me? or would you do your best to make my life and a couple of our neighbors as miserable as you could? no way, someone who would do that would resort to name calling as much as she thought she could get away with when someone disagreed with her.

jo, your plan and surrounding story has always been crap with no evidenciary backing, strings of massive illogic, and contradiction of you, by you. have fun, and good luck on your book deal. i really wouldn't mind if you made a few million. there have been less beleivable books written on the subject, but only slightly.


Orange1  (B 2638)

Sep 5, 2007, 1:29 PM
Post #434 of 1694 (4164 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'm inclined to think there is another poster here to whom the truth is just as important as it is to Jo, and that person clearly does not think it was Weber - but far from being a "nuisance" to Jo I believe that person is really looking for the truth, just unwilling to explain why (and so has less sympathy from everyone else?).
_________________________________________________
SmileThis person is none other than DBCoopercatcher from another forum who in real life is either Dan Devorack(not sure of that spelling) or Matt Myers who went on KOIN and publicly accused Mayfield of being Cooper. He did the same thing in another forum --- badgering me about my claim and NOT one time gave any evidence that his "victim" was Cooper. This repetition caused the thread to get locked down. Catcher (he uses another name here) is a predator . I am NOT a game player.

Just read this post properly now - Jo, you seem very sure of which person I am referring to. I deliberately left the name out, there are more than one who have been 'arguing' for the other side, and i am not at all sure you have the right one, certainly the motivation i picked up had nothing to do with either badgering you or pointing fingers at mayfield.

fwiw i personally don't think enough evidence for anything (either 'side') has been presented. by anyone.


(This post was edited by Orange1 on Sep 5, 2007, 1:30 PM)




Ckret

Sep 7, 2007, 3:56 PM
Post #436 of 1694 (4005 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Getting caught up on this thread is exhausting, but I have done it. So lets start from the beginning, who was DB Cooper?

-DB Cooper was not a drinker, he only had one drink and spilled a portion of that. If someone was a drinker, in a situation like this he would have had more than just one in the five hours he was on the plane.

-He was not a chain smoker, he was on the aircraft for five hours and only smoked 8 cigarettes. That would make him a smoker of less than a pack-a-day and this under normal conditions.

-He spoke in an intelligent manner and never lost his cool, he was always polite throughout the ordeal.

-He had brown eyes (Schaffner saw his eyes before he put on the glasses, he looked directly at her several times urging her to read the note)

-He is 5'10 to 6'1 (Mucklow is 5'8 and spent 5 hours with Cooper, she would know if he was her height or taller. Have someone 5'8 stand next to someone 6 feet, the difference is obvious. Better yet, position yourself at a level of 5'8 and look at someone at a 6' elevation. Now spend 5 hours with that person, you'll know the difference. No one put Cooper under 5'10.

-He had olive skin (no make-up, neither Mucklow, Schaffner or Hancock made comment on make-up which would have been very obvious. Again, do the math, put dark makeup on someone then sit next to them with your shoulders touching, you can see the make-up.)

-He had dark hair, receding with sideburns (no wig, this would have been painfully obvious, if a man was wearing a wig with a receding hair line and side burns everyone would have noticed, especially Mucklow and Schaffner.)

-He was med built (no one put him over 190 lbs, in fact most put him 180 or under. Find a man 6 foot 180 lbs, thats a med to thin build.)

These are the facts on his physical make-up, if your suspect does not match these you may want to start looking at someone else.

DB Cooper had A.D.D, his attention to detail was poor. He got the big picture, but missed the brush strokes. He was also a "know-it-all." The type of person who would learn a few facts and then become an expert on the subject. One of those people who has just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

DB Cooper most likely served in the military and upon leaving used his technical training as a contractor in the airline industry, in and around Seattle. He rose to a mid-level management position but when he could rise no further or his project never got off the ground, he quit or was fired, "because no one understood him or were just to stupid to get it."

Soon thereafter he ran into big financial problems that had a set deadline for resolution. Just as always he developed the "big picture" for getting the money but the escape was very poorly planned.

Would any of you make the following jump?

Here are some facts to consider if he survived and if you could pull it off.

The weather: Ceiling of 5,000 feet, broken clouds at 3,500, scattered clouds at 1,500. Winds of 12 to 14 knots, light rain showers.

The jump: DB's chute was a military style 28' canopy. The planes speed was 173 knots when he jumped at 10,000 feet in full darkness.

The landing: Forest with no lights. Possibly mountainous depending upon which theory you buy into.

So, You would have to make the jump in a business suit, old military style 28' chute, in a rain storm, at night, no lights, or equipment of any kind. Oh, and you would have to tie an additional 25 pounds to your waist to recreate the weight of money and jump at 10,000' from the back of a plane moving at 200 mph. In the end you'd have to stick the landing in the middle of a forest at about 30 mph with a 14 knot wind.

And it goes on and on.

Hopefully I will soon be able to answer many questions in this case and perhaps maybe the ultimate one.

And yes Grabgrass, FBI agents can read.


NickDG  (D 8904)

Sep 7, 2007, 5:36 PM
Post #437 of 1694 (3983 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

>>In the end you'd have to stick the landing in the middle of a forest at about 30 mph with a 14 knot wind.<<
Welcome to DZ.com.

If I may, you're making the same mistake even newer experienced jumpers make. Putting a round parachute into the trees in a 14 mph wind is not that big of deal. In fact, I'm sure Cooper was praying for a tree landing. And if your thirty mph figure is from adding in canopy speed, either horizontally or vertically - you're dreaming.

And a 28-foot round parachute is not small for a round, I made my first 30 jumps on the same type 28-foot military surplus canopies. Many of us here did. And the last round reserve parachute I landed on hard ground was 22-feet in diameter and believe me I was "looking" for a tree to get hung up in.

There's a technique whereby a jumper can cover the vital parts of the body that every first time jumper (used to) learn when we all jumped round parachutes. A round parachute moving sideways, as it would do a little bit on its own, and more so with some wind, can place a jumper into the tops of big trees (where they are bendy) as soft as landing in a feather bed . . .

It would have actually been more dangerous for Cooper had it been a dead calm night. Coming straight down into a tree is way more dangerous than hitting them with some sideways motion.

Getting out of a tree is usually the tougher part, but considering what he just went through, not impossible. I have, and lots of other jumpers have, hit trees with round parachutes in greater than 15 mph of wind in the old days. The higher winds are why we wound up in the trees in the first place.

Are you buying into the Hollywood hype where in any group of parachute jumpers someone always breaks a leg or twists an ankle? That's a plot device not real life. Or the old war movies where in every jump someone always goes into a tree and dies?

How many sport jumpers have landed in trees since the 1950s when skydiving first began? Hundreds? I'd say probably thousands.

Since I started jumping in 1975 I can only remember one single jumper being killed by a tree. That was at a Solider of Fortune convention in Las Vegas in the early 1980s. That poorly trained first time jumper had his neck pierced by a branch. There may be another one or two worldwide I don’t know about, but landing in a tree is far from instant death.

If Cooper managed to get his canopy to deploy cleanly (and there is no reason to believe he didn't) the worst of the entire airborne ordeal was behind him . . .

Now getting out of that wilderness would be another thing altogether. But I was just watching Survivorman the other night and . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


flybounce  (Student)

Sep 8, 2007, 8:14 AM
Post #438 of 1694 (3923 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

oh my,

so your last part says fbi agents can read. are you claiming to be one? if so, your know it all attitude from less than stellar sources and leaps in logic would explain why the case never got solved. i don't beleive you are an agent, though.

the books by those who actually used some semblance of method for research are the best so far but are not perfect. try himmelsbach or tosaw. you will find that the best guess is that he never took his glasses off and that tina never stood next to him while he was standing. did she ask him to set the bomb down, stand up for a compare and to please take his glasses off for a picture? the guy wasn't stupid.
tina - 5 hours solid with him is a bit of a stretch, even from unreliable sources.

the landing, the first reply to you is experinced, well thought out and reasoned. i'll give you something less, i would duplicate the jump if someone set it up and offered me 1/10th the value of cooper's stash.
$100,000. any takers?

i think it was two bourbon and 7-up's. not a drinker? you can't know that. people have different motivations for different things. don't turn good or bad guesses and opinions into facts.

isolate the descriptions - no composite descriptions - to the ones that should most likely know, he was compact, wellbuilt, swarthy, receding hairline,and had dark, peircing eyes. (he probably wore sunglasses as disguise the whole time, but no-one's perfect.)

make-up? what fool said you can't take it down your neck to your chest. i think he probably had a solid weather worn tan, and no makup, but i could wear some disguise or stage makeup and spend the day with you and you wouldn't have a clue. not all makeup is an old thick pancake base.

most all wigs are probably obvious, not painfully obvious. so many peopls turn opinions into facts. want to know a good investigator, ask him what the facts are, look for a short list, with no room for opinion and a longer list of probablies.

cooper had a.d.d.? i got it now, you're a high level fbi profiler. you''re hot on the trail of cooper and you're sharing the knowledge with the public.

is a.d.d. a diagnosis doctor? or are you projecting?

where is the weather report from? is that local, or the whole pacific northwest. specifics, bob.

i'm slamming you when other's have slammed me. is it wrong? i couldn't resist because of the veiled fbi agent claim and the trying to turn bad info into fact.

did ya see jo? i supported the drinker claim for you and duane. hey, bad methodology is what it is.


(This post was edited by flybounce on Sep 8, 2007, 8:18 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 8, 2007, 9:10 AM
Post #439 of 1694 (3912 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

 specifics, bob.



In reply to:

Strange 'phenomenon' Wink... a well thought out and logical discourse. Cool






awsee1  (Student)

Sep 8, 2007, 1:19 PM
Post #442 of 1694 (3867 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
These are the facts on his physical make-up, if your suspect does not match these you may want to start looking at someone else.

These are *NOT* "Facts", they are observations, and they are subject to human error. The minute you assume they are "facts" and they are absolutely accurate and hold to a rigid profile, and eliminate suspects because of it, you're formulating a recipe for an unsolved case.

I suppose you'll tell us that it's a "fact" that cooper looked like either of the FBI sketches. Why then did Florence have to work on a re-sketch for Unsolved Mysteries?

Seems you need to do a little homework.

Brenda


flybounce  (Student)

Sep 8, 2007, 2:24 PM
Post #443 of 1694 (3857 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

?????????


flybounce  (Student)

Sep 8, 2007, 2:32 PM
Post #444 of 1694 (3849 views)
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     Re: [skyjack71] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

hey, didn't you recently offer a truce, you lying, old drunken windbag? i didn't say yes quick enough? you delusional old hag?

he made a veiled reference that he hoped would be interpreted thataway and still give plausible deniability. thanks for defending the coward.

wow, he agrees a lot with you so you defend? astonishing intellectual honesty.

how's that for gibberish. you're whole made up plan and story is gibberish.


Ckret

Sep 8, 2007, 2:38 PM
Post #445 of 1694 (3847 views)
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     Re: [awsee1] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In any investigation there are a set on known facts that can't be reasonably disputed, a foundation if you will. From there you move into reported fact, information provided by witnesses both actual observers and those related to the event by some circumstance. Combined with physical evidence, the three form investigative theory which hopefully was derived by careful analysis.

It is the theory that drives the investigation in a logical direction, without a solid one you would spin off in directions that would not lead to a resolution.

I would urge you to strip away all in your current investigation back to the raw facts, What do you know for sure that no one can reasonably dispute? Make that your baseline.

Then add those reported facts that are not in dispute.

Now look at the reported facts that are in dispute, where did you get your information and compare it to the information that disputes your reported facts. Where did the person that is disputing your reported facts get their info from.

When you go back and look at your investigation to date, I think you'll find many of the reported facts that your basing some of your investigative theory on are actually theoretical fact (he wore makeup, he had a wig.....)

The physical description I provided is a reported fact. No matter how much you would like to change it you simply can't throw it out and replace it with theoretical fact so it fits your suspect. If you do, your investigation is doomed to fail.

No matter how much someone wants to put DB Cooper's height at 5'8" will never change the fact he was reported to be 6'. You can certainly say it's so but you have to have articulable fact to support the dismissal of the witnesses credibility. But if you discredit the witness on one piece of her statement you may have to discredit all, you can't have it both ways.

I gave you the reported facts from the original 302's completed by the agents who personally conducted the interviews.

The theory (A.D.D., "know it all" ...) is what I came up with from almost 20 years of experience, actual and reported fact.


bozo  (D 10154)

Sep 8, 2007, 2:43 PM
Post #446 of 1694 (3842 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
hey, didn't you recently offer a truce, you lying, old drunken windbag? i didn't say yes quick enough? you delusional old hag?

he made a veiled reference that he hoped would be interpreted thataway and still give plausible deniability. thanks for defending the coward.

wow, he agrees a lot with you so you defend? astonishing intellectual honesty.
------------------------------------------------------------


Well , if thats not a PERSONAL ATTACk I'll eat your hat.
Hey Moderators......WAKE UP ! ! ! !


1969912

Sep 8, 2007, 2:52 PM
Post #447 of 1694 (3839 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
hey, didn't you recently offer a truce, you lying, old drunken windbag? i didn't say yes quick enough? you delusional old hag?

he made a veiled reference that he hoped would be interpreted thataway and still give plausible deniability. thanks for defending the coward.

wow, he agrees a lot with you so you defend? astonishing intellectual honesty.

how's that for gibberish. you're whole made up plan and story is gibberish.


Impressive!


airtwardo  (D License)

Sep 8, 2007, 2:54 PM
Post #448 of 1694 (3836 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

hey, didn't you recently offer a truce, you lying, old drunken windbag? i didn't say yes quick enough? you delusional old hag?

In reply to:

Unsure


grimmie  (D 18890)

Sep 8, 2007, 3:59 PM
Post #449 of 1694 (3805 views)
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     Re: [airtwardo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

I'm going to sell this thread to FOX for a new reality show...Unsure


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Sep 8, 2007, 5:35 PM
Post #450 of 1694 (3774 views)
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     Re: [flybounce] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Banned for 30.

Let's keep it civil folks.


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Sep 8, 2007, 5:36 PM
Post #451 of 1694 (3805 views)
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     Re: [bozo] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Hey Moderators......WAKE UP ! ! ! !

Sorry. Can't be on 24/7/365


(This post was edited by quade on Sep 8, 2007, 5:36 PM)




NickDG  (D 8904)

Sep 8, 2007, 6:11 PM
Post #453 of 1694 (3792 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

>>The physical description I provided is a reported fact.<<

I shudder to think of all the poor saps who took their seat in the electric chair on the basis of an eye witness account. I learned long ago two people can see the same thing and disagree on what they saw.

Especially in aviation. Look at any FAA accident report that includes eye ball witness statements and it's all over the place. "He flipped over to the right." "He flipped over to the left." "The engine was racing." "The engine was sputtering." He hit the ground and caught fire" "He was on fire before he hit the ground." "He was steering away from the school." "He never knew the school was there . . . "

I was on a B.A.S.E. jump, at a building that was under construction, and just walking back into the building after landing. We were packing on the roof and making multiple jumps. A good friend of mine was getting ready to launch and I stopped to watch. He had a 180 to the right and slammed into the building hard and got hung up between floors.

Thankfully he was stunned but okay when we reached him. I said, "Man, that canopy turned right so fast there was nothing you could do." And he said, "What are you talking about? The canopy turned to the left!"

Him and I are still arguing that one . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


(This post was edited by NickDG on Sep 8, 2007, 6:20 PM)


Ckret

Sep 8, 2007, 6:18 PM
Post #454 of 1694 (3786 views)
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     Re: [grimmie] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

That is a great idea, there is no greater back story than the Cooper case and it is just ripe for a re-introduction into pop culture.

It would go like this:

The first half of the first show would be a documentary catching everyone up to speed, after all, mention the name DB Cooper to those outside skydiving and they say, "who?"

The second half would be dedicated to the theories and those behind them. Then you end the show with four groups of three, three representing the McCoy's, three the Mayfield's, three Weber's and three for the Splatter's.

Each group would make a tandem night jump into the area thought close to where Cooper made his jump, each carrying a 25 pound sack of everything they'll need for the next month.

Upon landing they will navigate to a camp in the woods around Coopers landing area. The first show will end upon the landing, the second pick up on the hike to the camp.

The rest of the shows will be filled with lively debate and different competitions, such as the "escape" played out with "FBI agents" hunting the different groups with paint guns.

In the end "America decides" with a call in vote.


Ckret

Sep 8, 2007, 6:26 PM
Post #455 of 1694 (3782 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

There is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case. Mucklow spent almost five hours with Cooper, I think she could have got the base physical indentifiers correct, especially when the others reported almost the same.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Sep 8, 2007, 6:48 PM
Post #456 of 1694 (3769 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

No Ckret...the show I am selling is everyone on this thread locked in a room arguing, name calling and taunting each other..like on this THREAD...

Maybe we could have names for it like...

"DB and the Hag"...or

"Are you smarter than a Flybounce?"...or

"True Stories of the Literate FBI"...or

"Hagnet"

And you can be the tandem master on your show 'cuz I ain't takin' no TV contestant outta the plane on a rainy night over the woods!!!!!!


NickDG  (D 8904)

Sep 8, 2007, 6:50 PM
Post #457 of 1694 (3767 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

>>Not the same in the Cooper case.<<

Not a bad counter point, but still no cigar . . .

Mucklow wasn't sitting on her back porch for five hours. She spent those five hours under the control of someone who was threatening to blow her out of the sky? In that state of mind some people can't even come up with their own names . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


(This post was edited by NickDG on Sep 8, 2007, 6:51 PM)


jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 8, 2007, 6:52 PM
Post #458 of 1694 (3765 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
There is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case. Mucklow spent almost five hours with Cooper, I think she could have got the base physical indentifiers correct, especially when the others reported almost the same.

And so did Florence, who said that Duane Weber is not Cooper.


jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 8, 2007, 7:00 PM
Post #459 of 1694 (3759 views)
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     Re: [NickDG] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
>>Not the same in the Cooper case.<<

Not a bad counter point, but still no cigar . . .

Mucklow wasn't sitting on her back porch for five hours. She spent those five hours under the control of someone who was threatening to blow her out of the sky? In that state of mind some people can't even come up with their own names . . .

NickD Smile
BASE 194


Good call Nick.

To think that Tina was staring at Cooper, trying to figure out his height, and weight, is ridiculous.

They were all trying to save their skins.

Just what went on in the back of the plane when the plane left Seattle with Tina and Cooper in the back.

How about the old, hey, forget what I look like, or I'll come looking for you, trick?

Tina was so impressed with Cooper, that she left the airliner not long after the Cooper case, and joined a convent.

And, top of it, refused to help the fBI.

so, obviously, her main objective, has never been to catch Cooper.

And we're suppose to hang our hats on her physical desription of Cooper.

I'll pass. Thanks.


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Sep 8, 2007, 7:02 PM)


Ckret

Sep 8, 2007, 7:17 PM
Post #460 of 1694 (3748 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

If your willing to accept that these individuals were not able to obtain basic physical identifiers for Cooper then he could have been of any race, any height and any weight. The description came from many who saw him, not just Schaffner and Mucklow. Several passengers sat near Cooper and noticed him because of his actions. They reported a physical description of Cooper as Schaffner and Mucklow. As did the ticket agent in Portland.

Under the "trust no I-witness" philosophy, there is no base of fact to go from, maybe he was actually a she? Where do you stop? there has to be a baseline of fact, you simply cannot conduct an effective investigation if every human being is a suspect.


Ckret

Sep 8, 2007, 7:23 PM
Post #461 of 1694 (3745 views)
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     Re: [grimmie] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Grimmie, you've read the thread, its totally do'able. Where's your spirit of adventure.


jackwilson  (Student)

Sep 8, 2007, 7:36 PM
Post #462 of 1694 (3742 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
If your willing to accept that these individuals were not able to obtain basic physical identifiers for Cooper then he could have been of any race, any height and any weight. The description came from many who saw him, not just Schaffner and Mucklow. Several passengers sat near Cooper and noticed him because of his actions. They reported a physical description of Cooper as Schaffner and Mucklow. As did the ticket agent in Portland.

Under the "trust no I-witness" philosophy, there is no base of fact to go from, maybe he was actually a she? Where do you stop? there has to be a baseline of fact, you simply cannot conduct an effective investigation if every human being is a suspect.


Actually, I am going to disagree with you.

First, the ticket agent had no reason to take any notice of Cooper.

Dennis Lynse was tracked down 5 hours after he sold the ticket, and helped close to 70 passengers that day, and we are using his identification.

actually, you helped me with your argument.

Anybody who would have seen Cooper, while on the plane, would have only seen a man who was sitting, in the last row, wearing glasses.

Nobody sat in the row with Cooper, and across the aisle, was Mitchell, who said Cooper was medium sized.

Nobody sat in the rows ahead of Cooper.

As a matter of fact, Mitchell was asked to moved to the front of the plane, as were the other passengers, as the plane was circling Seattle. So, nobody was even close to the guy when the plane landed in Seattle.

People did take notice of Cooper as they left the plane, but, only mentioned he was smoking, and was wearing glasses.

Nobody knew the jet was hijacked until the money was brought on board in Seattle.

even then, not everbody got it.

Still, Cooper was seated at the back of the plane.

How do you get a hold of his height and weight?

WAs he white, approximate age, maybe, that is it, IMO


(This post was edited by jackwilson on Sep 8, 2007, 7:54 PM)


Ckret

Sep 8, 2007, 8:00 PM
Post #463 of 1694 (3729 views)
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     Re: [jackwilson] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Not using any one persons description as the end all but the totality of all the descriptions. Not one person described him much different than the others. Yes some put him in his 30's most put him in his mid 40's to 50's. Some did not see him standing, others did.

He boarded with others, at one point he got up and went to the restroom. When they landed in Seattle he got up in the rear of the plane. He stood with Mucklow as she showed him how the airstairs were lowered. He was standing when he cut open the cute and wrapped the money. Tina watched him put on one of the chutes and on it goes.

On Monday I will give you all a brief on how many people gave a description and what it was and how they are related to the case.






Orange1  (B 2638)

Sep 9, 2007, 1:33 AM
Post #466 of 1694 (3667 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

In reply to:
That is a great idea, there is no greater back story than the Cooper case and it is just ripe for a re-introduction into pop culture.

It would go like this:

The first half of the first show would be a documentary catching everyone up to speed, after all, mention the name DB Cooper to those outside skydiving and they say, "who?"

The second half would be dedicated to the theories and those behind them. Then you end the show with four groups of three, three representing the McCoy's, three the Mayfield's, three Weber's and three for the Splatter's.

Each group would make a tandem night jump into the area thought close to where Cooper made his jump, each carrying a 25 pound sack of everything they'll need for the next month.

Upon landing they will navigate to a camp in the woods around Coopers landing area. The first show will end upon the landing, the second pick up on the hike to the camp.

The rest of the shows will be filled with lively debate and different competitions, such as the "escape" played out with "FBI agents" hunting the different groups with paint guns.

In the end "America decides" with a call in vote.

Laugh and for the prize they get the $200K?


bret.d.descopoi  (Student)

Sep 9, 2007, 7:43 AM
Post #467 of 1694 (3638 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking [In reply to]  

Wow, this thread is huge. I recently saw a show on Inside Edition that said Ted Mayfield is a possible for DB Cooper. There was recently a story in the local McMinnville paper which disputed this. I'm confused about a few things, however. Ckret, do you work in the Seattle office of the FBI as an agent? It sounds like you are going to get some of the information and share it with us Monday? That would mean you're actively working the case. The FBI doesn't even give access to a case unless an agent has been assigned, even if it is temporary. Can you tell us more? Or is it a Ckret. Clever name.

I don't have access to the files. I just have Ralph's book. I'm guessing the case cards won't disagree with what Ralph has to say. God love Ralph, he's a pretty good square dancer, but he got stuck on things that fit a preconceived notion. The result is the only unsolved sky jacking in US history. If I were you, I would stick to the description from Florence. Tina probably won't help much, especially now. She became very reluctant to help in less than a month of the actual heist.

Did you see the Unsolved Mysteries piece? Florence Schaffner (without muddling from an overly helpful and insistent ticket agent) did a sketch with an LA County sketch artist named Mahlon Coleman. As you probably well know, composites (descriptions done by committee) can be very deceiving. It is too bad that right off the bat Ralph himself did not interview both prime witnesses right after a sketch artist was done with both of them. Individual sketches from the prime suspects. What a concept.

Yes, if I had my druthers I would only use a sketch from Schaffner and Muckow individually. It might be interesting to compare the two when they are done. See how close they came to each other. This would be very useful in establishing the reliability of one or the other witness. Even if one sat right next to him for five hours, which did not exactly happen.


bret.d.descopoi  (Student)

Sep 9, 2007, 7:51 AM